80s superteams transplanted into the 90s

[mehyaM24]

how many championships do the sixers, lakers, celtics and pistons win at full strength the following decade? :confusedshrug:

i dont think the 80s bucks were a "super team" but i may be inclined to add them to my list. milwaukee always seemed to get up for & be able to periodically beat teams like the Lakers, Celtics & Pistons. i dont know why or how, but with their short success I would L-O-V-E to see that team in the middle of things. strong darkhorse.

[G0ATbe]

Don't have an exact estimate but all I know for sure is if those teams were primed throughout the 90s, Jordan would have 0 rings.

[jayfan]

how many championships do the sixers, lakers, celtics and pistons win at full strength the following decade? :confusedshrug:

i dont think the 80s bucks were a "super team" but i may be inclined to add them to my list. milwaukee always seemed to get up for & be able to periodically beat teams like the Lakers, Celtics & Pistons. i dont know why or how, but with their short success I would L-O-V-E to see that team in the middle of things. strong darkhorse.

Those were indeed great Bucks teams in the early/mid 80's. They had the unfortunate timing of having to face the Celts and Sixers in their primes. They weren't far off from either one.





.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I'll just say something that I've said many times before: 1990-1998 Bulls "transplanted" into 1980-1988, under the same "occurrences" (Jordan retiring, so on...), ain't winning 4 titles, let alone 6...




Those were indeed great Bucks teams in the early/mid 80's. They had the unfortunate timing of having to face the Celts and Sixers in their primes. They weren't far off from either one.
.

Totally agree, I've stated many times before that those Bucks would've made the Finals AT LEAST, in another (weaker) era.
They had some great players throughout the years, very balanced, well coached, great chemistry. Shame for them that they had to play in the GOAT conference - even if they got through it, showtime LA in the Finals then.

[mehyaM24]

Don't have an exact estimate but all I know for sure is if those teams were primed throughout the 90s, Jordan would have 0 rings.
the more i think about it, the more i tend to agree.

think about it - the lakers and celtics win AT LEAST 3 titles, whereas the pistons would be at full strength (not the '91 injured and depleted roster), and know how to exploit jordan and the bulls with the best of them (letting him get his, trapping the left side of the paint, and lending out hard fouls to anyone that gets in their way). of course - we're left with the sixers. moses/erving/cheeks/toney (according to barkley, andrew toney is THE most underrated / skilled player he played alongside).

the bulls would be lucky to have 2 titles - any more would be an absolute MIRACLE.


Those were indeed great Bucks teams in the early/mid 80's. They had the unfortunate timing of having to face the Celts and Sixers in their primes. They weren't far off from either one

strong post. agreed.

[mehyaM24]

1 maybe 2 championships for Jordan's Bulls. this says more about how stacked those 80s superteams were more than anything.. It doesn't discredit Jordan at all.. he'd still have a case for GOAT given his supporting cast relative to competition.
jordan wouldn't have as nearly many idiots praising him for the "6/6" bs, but i agree - he would still be a top 5 player. even without titles, guy is one of the greatest scorers in history (probably THE greatest volume scorer).

people that do their research know the 80s superteams were scary as hell. stacked top to bottom, playing in the most competitive and physical era in history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN0ruk2SJ2Q

[97 bulls]

Lol. Ive said this before..... the biggests testament to the Bulls greatness is the fact that they are the benchmark for which all other teams are compared.

You guys constantly make threads saying the Bulls were that good but always put them out for comparison.

Think about that for a moment.

[hateraid]

Lol. Ive said this before..... the biggests testament to the Bulls greatness is the fact that they are the benchmark for which all other teams are compared.

You guys constantly make threads saying the Bulls were that good but always put them out for comparison.

Think about that for a moment.

I think it's the exact opposite. It's to open the eyes of Jordan's Stans and get them to come back down from the clouds. Puts a little perspective

[mehyaM24]

I think it's the exact opposite. It's to open the eyes of Jordan's Stans and get them to come back down from the clouds. Puts a little perspective
:applause:

[3ball]

Don't have an exact estimate but all I know for sure is if those teams were primed throughout the 90s, Jordan would have 0 rings.
what this proves though is how crappy Jordan's teammates were, yet 6/6, which means: GOAT

that being said, i think Jordan would still have 5 rings.

[comerb]

Most of the 80s teams were god awful defensively. I could see the Celtics taking a couple, and maybe the Lakers snatching up one. The Jordan-Pippin-Rodman bulls were better than any team on that list though, they were elite on both ends of the floor.

[97 bulls]

I think it's the exact opposite. It's to open the eyes of Jordan's Stans and get them to come back down from the clouds. Puts a little perspective
Jordan stans would agree with you though. So lump them in as well. Have you read their posts? They literally feel that the Bulls were garbage and Jordan did it all on his own. Your post makes no sense. Jordanaires, 80s Lakers, 80s Celtics, 80s Pistons, 10s Lakers, 10 Heat and 00s Lakers fans all love to trash the Bulls, but constantly make threads comparing teams to them.


Its an oxymoron

[hateraid]

what this proves though is how crappy Jordan's teammates were, yet 6/6, which means: GOAT

that being said, i think Jordan would still have 5 rings.
Jordan's teams were just as stacked and had the GOAT coach to boot. Jordan's sidekick is the best perimeter defender next to Moncrief and had a better rebounder next to Moses in that era

[97 bulls]

what this proves though is how crappy Jordan's teammates were, yet 6/6, which means: GOAT

that being said, i think Jordan would still have 5 rings.
Lol. See what I mean??????

[3ball]

Lol. See what I mean??????
the stats are what they are - and they prove that Jordan carried the largest load in the history of the game.

[DonDadda59]

The Championship Bulls from the 90s with the exception of maybe the old, injured '98 squad smokes those 80s teams with the exception of the '85 & '87 Lakers and the '86 Celtics.

You gotta remember that a raw, young and still developing Bulls squad with Pippen suffering from big game 'migraines' pushed the Pistons to the brink when they were en route to wiping their ass with the Lakers in the Finals. Can't see how a mature, prime Bulls squad wouldn't mop the floor with those late 80s squads.

[97 bulls]

the stats are what they are - and they prove that Jordan carried the largest load in the history of the game.
Offensive load right? And mainly because he wanted to. He wasnt their best rebounder, or passer, he didnt anchor the defense or run the offense. He definitely contributed in those areas, but his teammates covered his ass as well.

I remember telling you the results of most other all-time greats teams when they abruptly left. And I predicted that the Heat would be a 500 team. Well here we are. Almost a quarter of the season done and the Heat are hovering around 500. And again, unlike the Bulls in 94, the Heat replaced James with Luol Deng.

Youre big on stats right? The most important stat is wins.

[97 bulls]

The Championship Bulls from the 90s with the exception of maybe the old, injured '98 squad smokes those 80s teams with the exception of the '85 & '87 Lakers and the '86 Celtics.

You gotta remember that a raw, young and still developing Bulls squad with Pippen suffering from big game 'migraines' pushed the Pistons to the brink when they were en route to wiping their ass with the Lakers in the Finals. Can't see how a mature, prime Bulls squad wouldn't mop the floor with those late 80s squads.
So youve basically said what the pro 80s guys are saying. They win one maybe two championships. Typical post from you.

[3ball]

So youve basically said what the pro 80s guys are saying. They win one maybe two championships. Typical post from you.
No, he said they'd win every year except 85, 86, and 87, so about the same as what Jordan did in the 90's, regardless of baseball.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No, he said they'd win every year except 85, 86, and 87, so about the same as what Jordan did in the 90's, regardless of baseball.
Someone didn't read the topic.. :lol

[3ball]

Someone didn't read the topic.. :lol
doesn't matter anyway - According to DonDadda999, the only championships the Bulls lose are to the 85-87 championship teams, so that would only be the 95-97 championships.

so the only rings the Bulls would forfeit is 1996 and 1997, and the Bulls would still have 4 rings.

we can't assume all the 80's superteams just get dumped into 1 year of the 1990's.... i don't think that was the topic.

[97 bulls]

No, he said they'd win every year except verses the 85, 86, and 87 so about the same as what Jordan did in the 90's, regardless of baseball.
What? The Bulls won 6 championships. If he feels they don't win vs the 85, 86, 87, and 88 championship teams(he said because they were injured in 98), how do they win six championships under the circumstances asked?

[L.Kizzle]

The Championship Bulls from the 90s with the exception of maybe the old, injured '98 squad smokes those 80s teams with the exception of the '85 & '87 Lakers and the '86 Celtics.

You gotta remember that a raw, young and still developing Bulls squad with Pippen suffering from big game 'migraines' pushed the Pistons to the brink when they were en route to wiping their ass with the Lakers in the Finals. Can't see how a mature, prime Bulls squad wouldn't mop the floor with those late 80s squads.
Other than Dumars, Rodman and Sally those Pistons were not a young team. Zeke/Aguirre was in like their 8th-9th season. Laimbeer and Edwards and VJ were in their early 30s. The loss of Mahorn was huge also.

Hell a lot of folks would say the teams in 88 and 87 were a little better than the 90 and 89 squads.

[3ball]

What? The Bulls won 6 championships. If he feels they don't win in 85, 86, 87, and 88 (he said because they were injured in 98), how do they win six championships under the circumstances asked?
they win 4... they win in 91-93... and they still win in 98' because he never said they wouldn't win - he said maybe, so i'll give it to them, based on Jordan's literal GOAT clutch performance and him scoring 38% of his team's points, a Finals record.

So the Bulls would have 4 rings under those parameters.. and even if you say 3 rings - that's still GOAT accomplishment while carrying the largest load ever in the best era ever... better than 2/5 in a weak era.
.

[SHAQisGOAT]

doesn't matter anyway - According to DonDadda999, the only championships the Bulls lose are to the 85-87 championship teams, so that would only be the 95-97 championships.

so the only rings the Bulls would forfeit is 1996 and 1997, and the Bulls would still have 4 rings.

we can't assume all the 80's superteams just get dumped into 1 year of the 1990's.... i don't think that was the topic.

If you "transplanted" the 1990-1998 Bulls to 1980-1988, I'd say they would've won in 1981, 1982 and 1988... Not saying they couldn't do more but also 1988 would've been very difficult too, with the Lakers and the Pistons.

People underrate the 1983 76ers too much though... That team was beastly, and the 1993 Bulls wouldn't beat them tbh.

[3ball]

If you "transplanted" the 1990-1998 Bulls to 1980-1988, I'd say they would've won in 1981, 1982 and 1988... Not saying they couldn't do more but also 1988 would've been very difficult too, with the Lakers and the Pistons.

People underrate the 1983 76ers too much though... That team was beastly, and the 1993 Bulls wouldn't beat them tbh.
sure... i think the consensus either way is about 3 rings - by either way, i mean transplanting the Bulls back to the 80's or transplanting the 80's teams to the 90's...

3 rings while carrying the largest load ever is still goat accomplishment in the best era ever... better than 2/5 in a weak era.

[97 bulls]

they win 4... they win in 91-93... and they still win in 98' because he never said they wouldn't win - he said maybe, so i'll give it to them, based on Jordan's literal GOAT clutch performance and him scoring 38% of his team's points, a Finals record.

So the Bulls would have 4 rings under those parameters.. and even if you say 3 rings - that's still pretty good in the best era ever... better than 2/5 in a weak era.
Got it. So do you feel the 93 Bulls would've beat the 83 Sixers? Cuz I doubt he (Dada) believes that.

[3ball]

Got it. So do you feel the 93 Bulls would've beat the 83 Sixers? Cuz I doubt he (Dada) believes that.
the suns were super-stacked too and had better defenders for Jordan.

but again, i think the consensus either way is about 3 rings - by either way, i mean transplanting the Bulls back to the 80's or transplanting the 80's teams to the 90's...

3 rings while carrying the largest load ever is still goat accomplishment in the best era ever... better than 2/5 in a weak era.

[97 bulls]

I think they win four. 91, 92, 96, and 97

[SHAQisGOAT]

sure... i think the consensus either way is about 3 rings - by either way, i mean transplanting the Bulls back to the 80's or transplanting the 80's teams to the 90's...

3 rings while carrying the largest load ever is still goat accomplishment in the best era ever... better than 2/5 in a weak era.

Agreed

[97 bulls]

the suns were super-stacked too and had better defenders for Jordan.

but again, i think the consensus either way is about 3 rings - by either way, i mean transplanting the Bulls back to the 80's or transplanting the 80's teams to the 90's...

3 rings while carrying the largest load ever is still goat accomplishment in the best era ever... better than 2/5 in a weak era.
What is "largest load"? Jordan was the Bulls best scorer. He took the lions share of the shots because that was the type of player he was. As I said before, he took the lions share of the shots during the 92 Olympics.

[3ball]

What is largest load? Jordan was the Bulls best scorer. He took the lions share of the shots because that was the type of player he was. As I said before, he took the lions share of the shots during the 92 Olympics.
everything - scoring, passing, defense - he led his team in all these areas... the offense ran through him - he decided the pace of the game and the nature of the Bulls offense.. the defense reacted to him, he countered, and on from there.

jordan was easily the best perimeter defender of all time imo, and the consensus is at least top 5.

[Marchesk]

jordan was easily the best perimeter defender of all time imo, and the consensus is at least top 5.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/10/31/nba-lockout-next-steps/1031-sidney-moncrief-300.jpg

The consensus is that the best versions of the 76ers (83), Celtics (86), and Lakers (87) are better than any team those championship Bulls had to play. And the Bucks at their best were about on par with any of those teams.

So three titles at the most. It would have been amazing to see Jordan and the Bulls get pushed that hard, and actually lose playoff series (there was Orlando, but that gets swept under the rug).

[bizil]

I just can't see the Bulls beating the Lakers and Celtics in a seven game series. Those are arguably the two most talented teams of all time. And they were big teams as well to boot. Plus they had offensive firepower off the charts. The Bulls had the GOAT in MJ, a versatile marvel in Pippen, a genius coach, the Triangle, and great defense. They never had the deepest team but what they DID have were the best of all time in their respective ways.

The Bulls EXEMPLIFIED the term TEAM consistently beating teams who had more talent depth top to bottom in Finals. I would go so far to say that ALL THE TEAMS the Bulls beat had more roster depth than Chicago. But THE BUCK STOPS with the Lakers and Celtics.

The only two perimeter players u could argue picking over MJ for your team is Magic and Bird. And u got arguably the two greatest technicians ever on the block in Kareem and McHale. When u throw in other talent, those teams are simply TOO STRONG for the Bulls. Lakers and Celts DOMINATE ANY ERA!! The Bulls beat Detroit, so I will give them credit on that one.

[jayfan]

Most of the 80s teams were god awful defensively. I could see the Celtics taking a couple, and maybe the Lakers snatching up one. The Jordan-Pippin-Rodman bulls were better than any team on that list though, they were elite on both ends of the floor.

Don't agree. Rodman's 87-89 Pistons teams were better than his Bulls teams.







.

[97 bulls]

I just can't see the Bulls beating the Lakers and Celtics in a seven game series.
But lesser teams beat the Lakers and Celtics. You literally arguing against something that actually happened. Unless you feel that the Bucks, and.Rockets were better than the Bulls.


And they were big teams as well to boot. Plus they had offensive firepower off the charts.
They played in the 80s. Every team had off rhe charts offensive firepower. You just cant acknowledge this plain fact why? Why do you continue to try to draw an even parallel between 80s and 90s statistics?


The Bulls had the GOAT in MJ, a versatile marvel in Pippen, a genius coach, the Triangle, and great defense. They never had the deepest team but what they DID have were the best of all time in their respective ways.
Deep how? Offensively? Athetically? IQ? Defensively? Rebounding? Versatility?

Can we find a.common ground here?

[97 bulls]

Bump. Can someone answer my questions?

[bizil]

But lesser teams beat the Lakers and Celtics. You literally arguing against something that actually happened. Unless you feel that the Bucks, and.Rockets were better than the Bulls.


They played in the 80s. Every team had off rhe charts offensive firepower. You just cant acknowledge this plain fact why? Why do you continue to try to draw an even parallel between 80s and 90s statistics?


Deep how? Offensively? Athetically? IQ? Defensively? Rebounding? Versatility?

Can we find a.common ground here?


In terms of depth top to bottom, The Bulls were NOWHERE CLOSE to the Lakers and Celtics. I don't need to explain NOTHING ELSE! All u have to do is lineup the rosters and u will see that. And we are talking a decade of having the peak 80's Lakers and peak 80's Celtics. With that said roster depth DOESN'T mean everything. But these are Magic's Lakers and Bird's Celtics.

Plus I'm talking those two particular teams AT THEIR BEST VERSIONS!! I'm not backing down at all, the 86 Celtics beat the Bulls in a seven game series. And the Lakers in 85 when Kareem still had major juice WOULD beat the Bulls in a seven game series. Sure when ANY TEAM regresses or start to slip some new teams step up. That's why the Bulls beat the Pistons finally. And the Bulls beat Magic's Lakers. But generally speaking, I say the best versions of the Lakers and Celtics BEAT the best version of the Bulls. FLAT OUT!! I'm not talking when one team regresses and the other is on the comeup. For example, I could see the 90's Bulls beating a late 80's version of the Lakers or Celtics. But those teams weren't like the teams in the mid 80's. I took the OP's question as those teams at their ABSOLUTE best in the 90's.

Finally, I'm not drawing a parallel to 80's statstics to 90's statistics. IM LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL PLAYERS who would be dominant in any era! We are talking Magic, Bird, Kareem, Worthy, and McHale. McAdoo would still be a beast of the bench for the Lakers. Parish would still be a multiple time All Star. What the hell are u talking about!!

[Dr.J4ever]

If you "transplanted" the 1990-1998 Bulls to 1980-1988, I'd say they would've won in 1981, 1982 and 1988... Not saying they couldn't do more but also 1988 would've been very difficult too, with the Lakers and the Pistons.

People underrate the 1983 76ers too much though... That team was beastly, and the 1993 Bulls wouldn't beat them tbh.

This.

I saw both decades, up close. In general, 1980s>1990s, but I will say that the 1990s were a tougher era defensively, and more physical too.

So it's hard to tell, but the question would be which era team would be able to dictate it's game on the other? Would the Bulls tougher defense slow down the high octane offensive teams from the 1980s? That to me would be the key.

Also, how would the Bulls react to finally encounter a great team with a great center i.e. KAJ or Moses or Boston's front line?

[Smoke117]

everything - scoring, passing, defense - he led his team in all these areas... the offense ran through him - he decided the pace of the game and the nature of the Bulls offense.. the defense reacted to him, he countered, and on from there.

jordan was easily the best perimeter defender of all time imo, and the consensus is at least top 5.

Revisionist history at it's best? According to this guy...scoring, passing, defense...everyone else was just along for the ride. Jordan was so good at everything that he carried the paltry Bulls to those titles. He was the best at everything, period. In the league, PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

3ball is the biggest joke on the forum these days.

[bizil]

This.

I saw both decades, up close. In general, 1980s>1990s, but I will say that the 1990s were a tougher era defensively, and more physical too.

So it's hard to tell, but the question would be which era team would be able to dictate it's game on the other? Would the Bulls tougher defense slow down the high octane offensive teams from the 1980s? That to me would be the key.

Also, how would the Bulls react to finally encounter a great team with a great center i.e. KAJ or Moses or Boston's front line?

Well said! In particular, I've ALWAYS thought the 83 Sixers, the 86 Celtics, and the 85 Lakers would beat the Bulls in a seven game series. For starters u have immortals on the perimeter in Doc, Magic, and Bird. The three mainstream faces of the NBA until MJ came of age. Then u have two of the top six centers even in Moses and Kareem. And of course Boston boasted the best frontline of all time when u add McHale and Parish to Larry. MJ is the GOAT, but even Superman had Kryptonite. I think these three teams are built to beat a team like the Bulls.

[3ball]

Also, how would the Bulls react to finally encounter a great team with a great center i.e. KAJ or Moses or Boston's front line?


i've never figured out why people say this when Jordan swept Shaq and his dream team, beat Ewing for years (who snap-made the Finals each time Jordan retired in 94' and 99'), and beat Alonzo and Tim Hardaway's 61-win, #1 defensive-rated Heat.

[bizil]

i've never figured out why people say this when Jordan swept Shaq and his dream team, beat Ewing for years (who snap-made the Finals each time Jordan retired in 94' and 99'), and beat Alonzo and Tim Hardaway's 61-win, #1 defensive-rated Heat.

Those teams AREN'T the peak Celtics and Lakers from the mid 80's. Totally different level of EPICNESS!!

[Prometheus]

I'm not sure, but if you transplanted those teams into the 10s, LeBron would still be ringless.

[97 bulls]

In terms of depth top to bottom, The Bulls were NOWHERE CLOSE to the Lakers and Celtics. I don't need to explain NOTHING ELSE! All u have to do is lineup the rosters and u will see that. And we are talking a decade of having the peak 80's Lakers and peak 80's Celtics. With that said roster depth DOESN'T mean everything. But these are Magic's Lakers and Bird's Celtics.

Plus I'm talking those two particular teams AT THEIR BEST VERSIONS!! I'm not backing down at all, the 86 Celtics beat the Bulls in a seven game series. And the Lakers in 85 when Kareem still had major juice WOULD beat the Bulls in a seven game series. Sure when ANY TEAM regresses or start to slip some new teams step up. That's why the Bulls beat the Pistons finally. And the Bulls beat Magic's Lakers. But generally speaking, I say the best versions of the Lakers and Celtics BEAT the best version of the Bulls. FLAT OUT!! I'm not talking when one team regresses and the other is on the comeup

Finally, I'm not drawing a parallel to 80's statstics to 90's statistics. IM LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL PLAYERS who would be dominant in any era! We are talking Magic, Bird, Kareem, Worthy, and McHale. McAdoo would still be a beast of the bench for the Lakers. Parish would still be a multiple time All Star. What the hell are u talking about!!
So you basically reiterated your previous post. Was Kevin Mchale ever a top 5 player like Pippen? Is Robert Parrish impact on par with Dennis Rodman? What are you basing your conclusions on?

And again rhe life of me, if the Lakers and Celtics were soooo much better than the Bulls whydid the Bulls give the Pistons hell, who in turn gave the Celtics and Lakers hell?

This is where you lose. The Pistons are the bridge between the Bulls and those mighty Lakers and Celtics teams. And mind you, the series between the Lakers/Pistons and Bulls weren't close. Its not like those teams gave the Bulls hell before bowing out in seven hard fought games. And what more, 91 was by no means the Bulls best team either.

[Dr.J4ever]

Those teams AREN'T the peak Celtics and Lakers from the mid 80's. Totally different level of EPICNESS!!

Exactly.

3Ball, notice what I said, "GREAT center on a GREAT team". Hakeem and Ewing were great centers on good teams. So the Bulls never encountered those type of animals from the 80s.

[97 bulls]

i've never figured out why people say this when Jordan swept Shaq and his dream team, beat Ewing for years (who snap-made the Finals each time Jordan retired in 94' and 99'), and beat Alonzo and Tim Hardaway's 61-win, #1 defensive-rated Heat.
I agree. Its like theyre so narrow minded, that they can't acknowledge clear and plain facts. Old ass Kareem was better than Shaq, Mourning, and Ewing?

[3ball]

Well said! In particular, I've ALWAYS thought the 83 Sixers, the 86 Celtics, and the 85 Lakers would beat the Bulls in a seven game series. For starters u have immortals on the perimeter in Doc, Magic, and Bird. The three mainstream faces of the NBA until MJ came of age. Then u have two of the top six centers even in Moses and Kareem. And of course Boston boasted the best frontline of all time when u add McHale and Parish to Larry. MJ is the GOAT, but even Superman had Kryptonite. I think these three teams are built to beat a team like the Bulls.
Indeed, Jordan cut his teeth playing the best... and it was in the 80's when he provided GOAT overall production (points, rebounds, assists per 100 possessions).

put his goat production next to a supporting cast even close the ones Magic and Bird had, and he runs the table on championships.

[97 bulls]

Exactly.

3Ball, notice what I said, "GREAT center on a GREAT team". Hakeem and Ewing were great centers on good teams. So the Bulls never encountered those type of animals from the 80s.
Lol Kareem was a great center in 87? Or are you doing what most fans do jump from team to team.

[Dr.J4ever]

So you basically reiterated your previous post. Was Kevin Mchale ever a top 5 player like Pippen? Is Robert Parrish impact on par with Dennis Rodman? What are you basing your conclusions on?

And again rhe life of me, if the Lakers and Celtics were soooo much better than the Bulls whydid the Bulls give the Pistons hell, who in turn gave the Celtics and Lakers hell?

This is where you lose. The Pistons are the bridge between the Bulls and those mighty Lakers and Celtics teams. And mind you, the series between the Lakers/Pistons and Bulls weren't close. Its not like those teams gave the Bulls hell before bowing out in seven hard fought games. And what more, 91 was by no means the Bulls best team either.

It's a good point about the "bridge". It can be answered this way: the late 80s Lakers weren't as good as the 86 Celtics or 83 76ers. The 88 and 89 Lakers were teams built around Magic, while the early 80s Lakers were teams with KAJ as their go to guy. This is why I don't think the Pistons were as good as the other 3( Lakers, Celts, 76ers) at their peak.

This is what I've been saying, Magic never won a title without KAJ

[bizil]

So you basically reiterated your previous post. Was Kevin Mchale ever a top 5 player like Pippen? Is Robert Parrish impact on par with Dennis Rodman? What are you basing your conclusions on?

And again rhe life of me, if the Lakers and Celtics were soooo much better than the Bulls whydid the Bulls give the Pistons hell, who in turn gave the Celtics and Lakers hell?

This is where you lose. The Pistons are the bridge between the Bulls and those mighty Lakers and Celtics teams. And mind you, the series between the Lakers/Pistons and Bulls weren't close. Its not like those teams gave the Bulls hell before bowing out in seven hard fought games. And what more, 91 was by no means the Bulls best team either.

I think u need to reread with the OP said. He said the Lakers and Celtics AT FULL STRENGTH for a DECADE! I take that as the PEAK VERSION of the Celtics AND THE PEAK VERSION of the Lakers. I never said the Lakers or Celtics would sweep the Bulls. MJ is so EPIC that it would be a great series. But in the end, I think Magic and Bird get the upper hand. The Pistons beat the Lakers when Magic and Worthy were out with injuries. The Pistons got past Boston when they started regressing. It happens in sports when the young upstarts get past the established champion. BUT IF U REREAD WHAT THE OP SAID, HE SAID BOSTON AND LA AT FULL STRENGTH!!

And u keep missing the POINT!! I said lineup the Bulls roster to the Lakers and Celtics roster 1-12 and U WILL SEE that the Lakers and Celtics had more roster depth. FLAT OUT!! U bring up Pippen and McHale. McHale is a top 6 GOAT PF in my book. Which is RIGHT AROUND where Pip would rank for SF's. And TRUST ME, teams worried more about stopping McHale at night than they would Pippen.

So how did I lose when I NEVER SAID THE BULLS wouldn't put up a serious fight? I just said the peak version of Boston and the peak version of the LA beats the Bulls in seven games. AND I STAND BY THAT!! OP SAID AT FULL STRENGTH!!! Which ENTAILS THOSE SQUADS AT THEIR ABSOLUTE BEST!!

[bizil]

I agree. Its like theyre so narrow minded, that they can't acknowledge clear and plain facts. Old ass Kareem was better than Shaq, Mourning, and Ewing?

Kareem in 1985 was still busting ass enough for the Lakers to be FAR SUPERIOR to any of those team with Shaq, Mourning, and Ewing. Kareem was Finals MVP in 1985!! The OP SAID THE 80's SUPERTEAMS AT FULL STRENGTH!! Kareem in late 80's was a FAR DIFFERENT PLAYER than Kareem in 1985. The Lakers best versions were in the mid 80's AND NOT the late 80's

[LAZERUSS]

It's a good point about the "bridge". It can be answered this way: the late 80s Lakers weren't as good as the 86 Celtics or 83 76ers. The 88 and 89 Lakers were teams built around Magic, while the early 80s Lakers were teams with KAJ as their go to guy. This is why I don't think the Pistons were as good as the other 3( Lakers, Celts, 76ers) at their peak.

This is what I've been saying, Magic never won a title without KAJ

Sorry, but that argument was blown away a long time ago.

Magic won a ring in '88 DESPITE Kareem, who was awful in the post-season, and absolutely pathetic in the Finals.

And with the talent that his 86-87 Lakers had, he most likely would have won a ring with Thompson and Green taking KAJ's minutes.

He might have won a ring in '89, as well, had he not been injured in game two of Finals, and 20 ppg scorer Scott out for the entire series. As it was...without Magic, the Lakers were swept.

Furthermore, the Lakers likely would have won in the '82 Finals, with a full-time McAdoo instead of Kareem. McAdoo basically put up KAJ's stats in far less minutes in that series. And, of course, it was MAGIC who carried that team to an easy title.

BTW, in their ten seasons on the Lakers together, in the games that Magic missed, LA won 61% of them. In the games that KAJ missed, they won 75% of them. NO QUESTION that it was MAGIC who was leading the Lakers to FIVE titles.

[Smoke117]

So you basically reiterated your previous post. Was Kevin Mchale ever a top 5 player like Pippen? Is Robert Parrish impact on par with Dennis Rodman? What are you basing your conclusions on?

And again rhe life of me, if the Lakers and Celtics were soooo much better than the Bulls whydid the Bulls give the Pistons hell, who in turn gave the Celtics and Lakers hell?

This is where you lose. The Pistons are the bridge between the Bulls and those mighty Lakers and Celtics teams. And mind you, the series between the Lakers/Pistons and Bulls weren't close. Its not like those teams gave the Bulls hell before bowing out in seven hard fought games. And what more, 91 was by no means the Bulls best team either.

Kevin Mchale was easily top 5 in 87 and has a case for most of those mid-late 80 seasons.

[1987_Lakers]

So you basically reiterated your previous post. Was Kevin Mchale ever a top 5 player like Pippen? Is Robert Parrish impact on par with Dennis Rodman? What are you basing your conclusions on?

McHale was pretty much top 5 in '86 & '87. Once you get to the #4-#8 guys on both squads its pretty obvious which team had more talent. It shouldn't even be debated.

DJ (Still All-Star caliber, All-NBA defender)
Ainge (15-5-4 player)
Walton (6MOY, GOAT back-up center)
Wedman (Sharpshooter who moved well without the ball)
Sichting (Money from midrange, one-dimensional)

Kukoc (6MOY)
Harper (Very good defender, limited offense by this point)
Longley (One of the worst starting centers in the league)
Kerr (One-dimensional player who was one of the best shooters in the league)
Wennington (total scrub)

[bizil]

Indeed, Jordan cut his teeth playing the best... and it was in the 80's when he provided GOAT overall production (points, rebounds, assists per 100 possessions).

put his goat production next to a supporting cast even close the ones Magic and Bird had, and he runs the table on championships.

I agree. If u gave MJ the kind of supporting casts guys like Doc, Magic and Bird had that he would have beat those squads for titles. Even without them it would be a hell of a series!

[1987_Lakers]

Kevin Mchale was easily top 5 in 87 and has a case for most of those mid-late 80 seasons.

You can argue '86 as well. McHale in that '86 postseason...25 PPG | 8.5 RPG | 2.7 APG | 2.4 BPG | 58 FG%.

That has to be a top 3 postseason performance by a side kick. Dominated the inside with his scoring and efficiency and provided elite defensive play on the other end. McHale even shut down Dominique Wilkins in that postseason run and outscored Bird & Olajuwon in the Finals.

[Dr.J4ever]

Sorry, but that argument was blown away a long time ago.

Magic won a ring in '88 DESPITE Kareem, who was awful in the post-season, and absolutely pathetic in the Finals.

And with the talent that his 86-87 Lakers had, he most likely would have won a ring with Thompson and Green taking KAJ's minutes.

He might have won a ring in '89, as well, had he not been injured in game two of Finals, and 20 ppg scorer Scott out for the entire series. As it was...without Magic, the Lakers were swept.

Furthermore, the Lakers likely would have won in the '82 Finals, with a full-time McAdoo instead of Kareem. McAdoo basically put up KAJ's stats in far less minutes in that series. And, of course, it was MAGIC who carried that team to an easy title.

BTW, in their ten seasons on the Lakers together, in the games that Magic missed, LA won 61% of them. In the games that KAJ missed, they won 75% of them. NO QUESTION that it was MAGIC who was leading the Lakers to FIVE titles.

LOL, I knew that would wake you up.

I respectfully disagree. KAJ surely led them to their 1st one in 1980, even though Magic was FMVP(like Kawhi). In the other titles, they were at the very least co-leaders, with Magic taking charge as the decade moved forward.

It's still a fact though that Magic has never won a title without the great KAJ.

[Round Mound]

I agree. Its like theyre so narrow minded, that they can't acknowledge clear and plain facts. Old ass Kareem was better than Shaq, Mourning, and Ewing?

Offensively, Yes! (not so defensive or rebounding wise)

[bizil]

McHale was pretty much top 5 in '86 & '87. Once you get to the #4-#8 guys on both squads its pretty obvious which team had more talent. It shouldn't even be debated.

DJ (Still All-Star caliber, All-NBA defender)
Ainge (15-5-4 player)
Walton (6MOY, GOAT back-up center)
Wedman (Sharpshooter who moved well without the ball)
Sichting (Money from midrange, one-dimensional)

Kukoc (6MOY)
Harper (Very good defender, limited offense by this point)
Longley (One of the worst starting centers in the league)
Kerr (One-dimensional player who was one of the best shooters in the league)
Wennington (total scrub)

Right on the money! MJ is the GOAT in my book. But what TURNED THE TIDE in comparison to Magic and Bird was the defensive end of the floor. Even moreso than his freak athletic ability. Offensively, Magic and Bird had PF size and point guard level acumen. And both were true alpha dogs. Lebron is the only guy since who brings that to the table.

People FAIL TO REALIZE how that versatility blends with TREMENDOUS roster depth. MJ as great as he was was NEVER as versatile as Bird and Magic (in terms of size and skill as combo). And he NEVER had the roster depth that Bird and Magic had. So frankly, there is no argument as u stated in terms of roster depth. Furthermore, there SHOULD BE NO OUTRAGE if many feel the peak Celtics and peak Lakers would beat MJ's Bulls. MJ is the GOAT but he doesn't walk on water!!

[houston]

bulls would be lucky to win 1

[97 bulls]

Exactly.

3Ball, notice what I said, "GREAT center on a GREAT team". Hakeem and Ewing were great centers on good teams. So the Bulls never encountered those type of animals from the 80s.
Lol Kareem was a great center in 87? Or are you doing what most fans do jump from team to team.

[Joyner82reload]

guy is one of the greatest scorers in history (probably THE greatest volume scorer).


Who the hell has an argument over Jordan as a scorer? Durant and MAYBE Wilt, but you have to take era into account. LOL @ pretending like there are 6 or 7 great scorers that could be above or equal to Jordan. It's really just Jordan and Durant. And seeing as Durant hasn't done it while winning a title yet, it's really just Jordan

[97 bulls]

It's a good point about the "bridge". It can be answered this way: the late 80s Lakers weren't as good as the 86 Celtics or 83 76ers. The 88 and 89 Lakers were teams built around Magic, while the early 80s Lakers were teams with KAJ as their go to guy. This is why I don't think the Pistons were as good as the other 3( Lakers, Celts, 76ers) at their peak.

This is what I've been saying, Magic never won a title without KAJ
I don't get this line of reasoning. A clear double standard. So the Pistons weren't as good as the teams you mentioned (Lakers, Celtics and Sixers) because they beat them when they weren't as good. But let me guess, when the Lakers and Celtics beat them (the Pistons) they were at their best. Am I right?

[97 bulls]

McHale was pretty much top 5 in '86 & '87. Once you get to the #4-#8 guys on both squads its pretty obvious which team had more talent. It shouldn't even be debated.

DJ (Still All-Star caliber, All-NBA defender)
Ainge (15-5-4 player)
Walton (6MOY, GOAT back-up center)
Wedman (Sharpshooter who moved well without the ball)
Sichting (Money from midrange, one-dimensional)

Kukoc (6MOY)
Harper (Very good defender, limited offense by this point)
Longley (One of the worst starting centers in the league)
Kerr (One-dimensional player who was one of the best shooters in the league)
Wennington (total scrub)
When are you gonna get this through your thick head. Teams dont play game like that. Steve Kerr doesn't have to outplay Sitching. He has to do hus job. Hit the open jumper. And make threes. Thats his job.

And you forget Brian Williams, Jason Caffey and Jud Buchler.

And I remember my point on Williams avg 10/6. It was if his stats were based on 80s statistics.

Caffeys 7/4 on 53% shooting isnt far off from Waltons 8/7 on 56%. And he was the Bulls tenth man.

And lets not forget the Bulls were flat out better than the Celtics as far as wins minus their respective best players. Without Jordan, the Bulls won 55 games. The Celtics won 42 in qn expansion year.