Thibs. What the hell...

[poido123]

He's a good coach, one of the best in the league, but that is mainly on the back of his defensive schemes.


His rotations, player management and minute distribution to players I'd argue is one of the worst in the league.

For example, today's game we were down by 9 so what does he do? He brings in an offensively challenged Kirk Hinrich. What is the logic behind that?

I have been harping on about Thibs playing Rose and Brooks together for stretches in a game. Particularly when our offense gets a bit stagnant.

Why can't we see some play where Mirotic plays at the 3? Going further, why wasn't this happening when Gibson was healthy if it was an issue of being thin for big men off the bench?

Makes no sense.

I understand that McDermott has being playing like ass lately, but surely we could try and play him in the starting lineup a game or two? See if he gains confidence playing alongside players who can cover his shortcomings or even release him into space?

Second year Snell has been copping it hard also. I understand he might f.ck up a few defensive sets here and there, but he hasn't looked terrible either. Why not play him a steady 15-20 minutes every game for 10 games and see if he improves? I've seen some excellent man defense played by him before, surely he can add to that with some confidence.

I saw too much penetration from Ellis in the Dallas game, why wasn't Thibs instructing his big men to protect the hoop and at least contest the shot? I saw Gasol just stand there and watch over and over again. So fustrating.

Some excellent pick and pop, pick and roll plays today, but our defensive intensity was not consistent enough and not for long enough. Nobody helping out, nobody closing out the penetrators.

That's my rant, I'm just tired of seeing Thibs hold back the potential of this team a bit. Great defensive philosophies that has made Bulls elite on defense, but everything else not so good...I think a really good offensive assistant coach could really help.

Someone needs to tell Thibs to give Butler more rest too. Perhaps play McDermott or Snell some more minutes...

[Prometheus]

This would be a better fit for the Chicago Bulls forum, or perhaps your diary.

[poido123]

This would be a better fit for the Chicago Bulls forum, or perhaps your diary.


An original thread that doesn't consist of Kobe sucks, Lebron is a queen, Durant returned today.

You don't have to like the thread, but it might be worth discussing for some people.

[poido123]

This would be a better fit for the Chicago Bulls forum, or perhaps your diary.


I agree, it should be posted in the Bulls thread too.

[MJ(Mean John)]

He's a good coach, one of the best in the league, but that is mainly on the back of his defensive schemes.


His rotations, player management and minute distribution to players I'd argue is one of the worst in the league.

For example, today's game we were down by 9 so what does he do? He brings in an offensively challenged Kirk Hinrich. What is the logic behind that?

I have been harping on about Thibs playing Rose and Brooks together for stretches in a game. Particularly when our offense gets a bit stagnant.

Why can't we see some play where Mirotic plays at the 3? Going further, why wasn't this happening when Gibson was healthy if it was an issue of being thin for big men off the bench?

Makes no sense.

I understand that McDermott has being playing like ass lately, but surely we could try and play him in the starting lineup a game or two? See if he gains confidence playing alongside players who can cover his shortcomings or even release him into space?

Second year Snell has been copping it hard also. I understand he might f.ck up a few defensive sets here and there, but he hasn't looked terrible either. Why not play him a steady 15-20 minutes every game for 10 games and see if he improves? I've seen some excellent man defense played by him before, surely he can add to that with some confidence.

I saw too much penetration from Ellis in the Dallas game, why wasn't Thibs instructing his big men to protect the hoop and at least contest the shot? I saw Gasol just stand there and watch over and over again. So fustrating.

Some excellent pick and pop, pick and roll plays today, but our defensive intensity was not consistent enough and not for long enough. Nobody helping out, nobody closing out the penetrators.

That's my rant, I'm just tired of seeing Thibs hold back the potential of this team a bit. Great defensive philosophies that has made Bulls elite on defense, but everything else not so good...I think a really good offensive assistant coach could really help.

Someone needs to tell Thibs to give Butler more rest too. Perhaps play McDermott or Snell some more minutes...



Hmmmm... A good offensive Coach as an assistant.


Oh' wait! I've got it!

How about MIKE D'Antoni!!

[poido123]

Hmmmm... A good offensive Coach as an assistant.


Oh' wait! I've got it!

How about MIKE D'Antoni!!

He would actually make the most sense. :applause:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I don't think D'antoni would be a good fit for this Roster TBH.

[Dr.J4ever]

He's a good coach, one of the best in the league, but that is mainly on the back of his defensive schemes.


His rotations, player management and minute distribution to players I'd argue is one of the worst in the league.

For example, today's game we were down by 9 so what does he do? He brings in an offensively challenged Kirk Hinrich. What is the logic behind that?

I have been harping on about Thibs playing Rose and Brooks together for stretches in a game. Particularly when our offense gets a bit stagnant.

Why can't we see some play where Mirotic plays at the 3? Going further, why wasn't this happening when Gibson was healthy if it was an issue of being thin for big men off the bench?

Makes no sense.

I understand that McDermott has being playing like ass lately, but surely we could try and play him in the starting lineup a game or two? See if he gains confidence playing alongside players who can cover his shortcomings or even release him into space?

Second year Snell has been copping it hard also. I understand he might f.ck up a few defensive sets here and there, but he hasn't looked terrible either. Why not play him a steady 15-20 minutes every game for 10 games and see if he improves? I've seen some excellent man defense played by him before, surely he can add to that with some confidence.

I saw too much penetration from Ellis in the Dallas game, why wasn't Thibs instructing his big men to protect the hoop and at least contest the shot? I saw Gasol just stand there and watch over and over again. So fustrating.

Some excellent pick and pop, pick and roll plays today, but our defensive intensity was not consistent enough and not for long enough. Nobody helping out, nobody closing out the penetrators.

That's my rant, I'm just tired of seeing Thibs hold back the potential of this team a bit. Great defensive philosophies that has made Bulls elite on defense, but everything else not so good...I think a really good offensive assistant coach could really help.

Someone needs to tell Thibs to give Butler more rest too. Perhaps play McDermott or Snell some more minutes...

I agree with you, and have noticed this about Thibs.

When I saw Bulls fans here in ISH before the season began fondly arguing about all the offensive combinations the Bulls had available, I didn't buy it because of Thibs.

He reminds me of Coach Larry Brown a little bit when he was with the 76ers. Brown would always play the players who he thought were strongest defenders to the detriment of the offense. He did the same thing with his time with the Pacers.

Offensive players would languish in the bench in favor of 1 dimensional defensive players. That's Thibs bias, I think, just like Brown.

[poido123]

I don't think D'antoni would be a good fit for this Roster TBH.

Not as a head coach implementing all of his schemes, but I think some of his ideas might help Thibs.

I don't want to see Gasol turned into a 3 point specialist :lol

[GoldMedallist]

You can't expect great D for a 34 years old big man if you make him play 50 minutes.

[poido123]

I agree with you, and have noticed this about Thibs.

When I saw Bulls fans here in ISH before the season began fondly arguing about all the offensive combinations the Bulls had available, I didn't buy it because of Thibs.

He reminds me of Coach Larry Brown a little bit when he was with the 76ers. Brown would always play the players who he thought were strongest defenders to the detriment of the offense. He did the same thing with his time with the Pacers.

Offensive players would languish in the bench in favor of 1 dimensional defensive players. That's Thibs bias, I think, just like Brown.


Exactly, his bias for defensive players is holding back potential offense for this team that is much needed. We need a weapon like McDermott to come on and drill shots, run around screens and open up the court. By not playing him, we limit our spacing and reduce our shooting to Dunleavy and cameo roles by rose, brooks, butler and Mirotic. Not threatening enough.

Sending a clear signal of no trust to his rookie McDermott.

How the hell will that boost his confidence? His coach thinks he deserves zero to 5 minutes a game :(

[SamuraiSWISH]

I've routinely said he can't see the forrest through the trees ...

[poido123]

You can't expect great D for a 34 years old big man if you make him play 50 minutes.


Very true, but this was happening throughout the game.

Ellis doesn't put up close to 40 points if the big men are contesting the hoop.

Watching the game, Gasol stood there and ignored a few drives he could of easily contested.

[Warfan]

I haven't watched many bulls games this season and none recently, but haven't they been struggling on D this season at least by their standards? What's up with that?

[miggyme1]

He's a good coach, one of the best in the league, but that is mainly on the back of his defensive schemes.


His rotations, player management and minute distribution to players I'd argue is one of the worst in the league.

For example, today's game we were down by 9 so what does he do? He brings in an offensively challenged Kirk Hinrich. What is the logic behind that?

I have been harping on about Thibs playing Rose and Brooks together for stretches in a game. Particularly when our offense gets a bit stagnant.

Why can't we see some play where Mirotic plays at the 3? Going further, why wasn't this happening when Gibson was healthy if it was an issue of being thin for big men off the bench?

Makes no sense.

I understand that McDermott has being playing like ass lately, but surely we could try and play him in the starting lineup a game or two? See if he gains confidence playing alongside players who can cover his shortcomings or even release him into space?

Second year Snell has been copping it hard also. I understand he might f.ck up a few defensive sets here and there, but he hasn't looked terrible either. Why not play him a steady 15-20 minutes every game for 10 games and see if he improves? I've seen some excellent man defense played by him before, surely he can add to that with some confidence.

I saw too much penetration from Ellis in the Dallas game, why wasn't Thibs instructing his big men to protect the hoop and at least contest the shot? I saw Gasol just stand there and watch over and over again. So fustrating.

Some excellent pick and pop, pick and roll plays today, but our defensive intensity was not consistent enough and not for long enough. Nobody helping out, nobody closing out the penetrators.

That's my rant, I'm just tired of seeing Thibs hold back the potential of this team a bit. Great defensive philosophies that has made Bulls elite on defense, but everything else not so good...I think a really good offensive assistant coach could really help.

Someone needs to tell Thibs to give Butler more rest too. Perhaps play McDermott or Snell some more minutes...


i wouldnt call hinrich offensively challenged..there is more to offense than scoring. hinrich can run the pick and roll with the best of them...true he isnt gonna blow past you like 99 percent of the guards in the league...but he has a high iq...understands angles...and is a PASS FIRST guard...something drose nor aaron brooks are

[Bless Mathews]

Aaron brooks is my niggah. Give him more time. He's a spark. FONky.

[poido123]

I haven't watched many bulls games this season and none recently, but haven't they been struggling on D this season at least by their standards? What's up with that?


Very inconsistent is how I'd describe it.

I've seen one game of elite defense so far, a couple of quarters here and there and a few small bursts.

Hinrich has been limited with injury(affects his lateral movement), Rose has tapered off a bit(either protecting his knees or lack of urgency), Gasol has one good game on D then putrid the next, the overall team D isn't clicking atm and I'd say it's to do with injuries and tired players.

Still, I want to see them playing good D around the allstar break and beyond, not December so I'm not that concerned atm. I'm more concerned about Thibs tendancies with overbearing practices, rotations and player management which hurt the team more than anything.

[Akhenaten]

This is the biggest reason why the West in recent years has been so much better than East top to bottom. All the innovation is the West, East coast coaches/GM have antiquated philosophies that they rigidly stick to.

To liken it to football, Rex Ryan would an Eastern Conference coach in bball, he believes in a particular way of doing things and he sticks to it like a drone.

Excellent coach, but thinks he can win Superbowls with just running the football and playing D, just flatout refuses to accept that times have changed.

Pat Riley is another one, he's gotten lucky over the years with a talent but I feel wasted Wade's prime with his managerial decisions.

[Thorpesaurous]

I vaguely recall talking to you about this very thing in the pre-season.

[swagga]

He would actually make the most sense. :applause:


SSOL plus thibs rotations would mean the bulls would be banged up by christmas, would be gassed by the all star game and will have a dleague rotation starting in the PO :lol

[jrong]

My question is, given the Bull's current status quo, why was Rose taking all of those end-of-game shots? If he was just demanding the ball, that's one thing. But, if Thibs called those plays, that's a bad error for a generally outstanding coach. In the Bulls' present state, those shots should have gone to Butler or a to a three-point shooter off the drive-and-kick.

[nathanjizzle]

My question is, given the Bull's current status quo, why was Rose taking all of those end-of-game shots? If he was just demanding the ball, that's one thing. But, if Thibs called those plays, that's a bad error for a generally outstanding coach. In the Bulls' present state, those shots should have gone to Butler or a to a three-point shooter off the drive-and-kick.

nah, im pretty happy and confident with rose taking those end of the game 3's. hes made them plenty of times before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk3S25mIrAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NmfaUHZ_gE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iCW8K1CqPU

[chocolatethunder]

He's a good coach, one of the best in the league, but that is mainly on the back of his defensive schemes.


His rotations, player management and minute distribution to players I'd argue is one of the worst in the league.

For example, today's game we were down by 9 so what does he do? He brings in an offensively challenged Kirk Hinrich. What is the logic behind that?

I have been harping on about Thibs playing Rose and Brooks together for stretches in a game. Particularly when our offense gets a bit stagnant.

Why can't we see some play where Mirotic plays at the 3? Going further, why wasn't this happening when Gibson was healthy if it was an issue of being thin for big men off the bench?

Makes no sense.

I understand that McDermott has being playing like ass lately, but surely we could try and play him in the starting lineup a game or two? See if he gains confidence playing alongside players who can cover his shortcomings or even release him into space?

Second year Snell has been copping it hard also. I understand he might f.ck up a few defensive sets here and there, but he hasn't looked terrible either. Why not play him a steady 15-20 minutes every game for 10 games and see if he improves? I've seen some excellent man defense played by him before, surely he can add to that with some confidence.

I saw too much penetration from Ellis in the Dallas game, why wasn't Thibs instructing his big men to protect the hoop and at least contest the shot? I saw Gasol just stand there and watch over and over again. So fustrating.

Some excellent pick and pop, pick and roll plays today, but our defensive intensity was not consistent enough and not for long enough. Nobody helping out, nobody closing out the penetrators.

That's my rant, I'm just tired of seeing Thibs hold back the potential of this team a bit. Great defensive philosophies that has made Bulls elite on defense, but everything else not so good...I think a really good offensive assistant coach could really help.

Someone needs to tell Thibs to give Butler more rest too. Perhaps play McDermott or Snell some more minutes...
I'm not a Bulls fan so obviously I've not witnessed all the complaints that you've made because I don't watch that many Bulls games but I can say this. As an NBA fan when I look objectively at what he's been able to do with this team both with and without Rose, I'd say that you don't have much to complain about. When I look at how players like Noah and Rose have played and developed for him I would say that you shouldn't complain about much. Taking one game here and there an cherry picking this play and that play is an exercise in futility. What you should look at is where they are at the end of the season. I'd say that they've done great under him.

[penny4president]

mirotic should play more...
Thibs can start him...it should be

PG:ROSE
SG: BUTLER
SF: Mirotic:D
PF: Gasol
C: Noah

[poido123]

I vaguely recall talking to you about this very thing in the pre-season.


It's reared its ugly head again. What we suggested might happen is kind of happening...

[poido123]

My question is, given the Bull's current status quo, why was Rose taking all of those end-of-game shots? If he was just demanding the ball, that's one thing. But, if Thibs called those plays, that's a bad error for a generally outstanding coach. In the Bulls' present state, those shots should have gone to Butler or a to a three-point shooter off the drive-and-kick.


He's our main shot creator and I guess the best chance of scoring a basket.

Still, I'd much rather the open guy taking it, we have plenty of good shooters now and there's no excuse for coaches not drawing up plays to get players open.

[poido123]

I'm not a Bulls fan so obviously I've not witnessed all the complaints that you've made because I don't watch that many Bulls games but I can say this. As an NBA fan when I look objectively at what he's been able to do with this team both with and without Rose, I'd say that you don't have much to complain about. When I look at how players like Noah and Rose have played and developed for him I would say that you shouldn't complain about much. Taking one game here and there an cherry picking this play and that play is an exercise in futility. What you should look at is where they are at the end of the season. I'd say that they've done great under him.


Yes, he has developed players to play hard for him and to some degree brought the best out of them. HOWEVER, there is still a major flaw in his rotations, his in game decision making and his tendancy to over play defensive players at the detriment of offense, even if we are down on the scoreboard.

His stubborn, inflexible decisions are what I think hurt this team more than anything, but I'm always holding out hope that something miraculously changes.

This isn't some nitpicking exercise, this is a long term issue that has manifested into a real problem for our team. If things don't change, we may sink with the ship under Thibs rule.

[chocolatethunder]

Yes, he has developed players to play hard for him and to some degree brought the best out of them. HOWEVER, there is still a major flaw in his rotations, his in game decision making and his tendancy to over play defensive players at the detriment of offense, even if we are down on the scoreboard.

His stubborn, inflexible decisions are what I think hurt this team more than anything, but I'm always holding out hope that something miraculously changes.

This isn't some nitpicking exercise, this is a long term issue that has manifested into a real problem for our team. If things don't change, we may sink with the ship under Thibs rule.
I feel you but I mean damn his record with what he's had to work with is pretty damned good. They went to the ECF w a healthy Rose and his player development is pretty awesome. He has Butler playing out of his mind. We're talking about the 30th pick in the draft. I dunno, there are no perfect coaches and if he were fired today you'd be hard pressed to find a replacement that was anywhere near as good as him. I'm just saying that as a Sixer fan when I think of the parade of awful teams and years post Larry Brown, if I were a Chicago fan I'd be happy. That doesn't mean that your complaints aren't valid. All I mean is there's only one team that gets to win a championship each year and all the other teams get to be upset and come up with reasons why they didn't but I think that Chicago has something good going on there.

[smoovegittar]

You need a more dependable point guard to LEAD the offence. My thoughts.