Why does Rose get more shit for winning the MVP than anyone else?

[sportjames23]

Even Nash doesn't get shit on here as much as Rose does for winning the award.

What's up with that?

[Heavincent]

Bran stans

[Imtheman]

Because Rose didn't deserve MVP.

/thread

Everyone quote me

[penny4president]

Bran stans
this..
and if you're a real basketball fan.. you will appreciate d.rose

[chocolatethunder]

Even Nash doesn't get shit on here as much as Rose does for winning the award.

What's up with that?
sorry, Nash has that on lockdown.

[ImKobe]

Rose deserved it

Bran didn't cause of colluding

[Dro]

sorry, Nash has that on lockdown.
This......

[Myth]

LeBron stans complain most about Rose's MVP. Everybody else points out Nash's.

[Uncle Drew]

Rose deserved it

Bran didn't cause of colluding
2011 MVP was Dwight's to lose really.

[The_Pharcyde]

Cause they are mad lebron fans...

Rose carried that squad that was injured all year to the best record in the league.. They gave out that award in the 2nd round.. At that point Rose was 3-0 against the Heat and howard couldn't get his squad past the Hawks
The team was 62-20 and many expected them to be around the 50 win mark

I mean look at the voting breakdown.. Was not even CLOSE
I trust the most knowledgable basketball heads in deciding the mvp in a blowout over a couple people on a small basketball forum, I mean maybe I would pay the people opposed to the result some mind if the voting was even near close
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/5/3/2152070/derrick-rose-2011-mvp-award-vote

And Rose was the whole offense... If Rose didn't have it on a certain night, the whole team was doomed
And don't forget this is before Joakim noah and taj gibson were the players they were today

[ImKobe]

2011 MVP was Dwight's to lose really.

10 less wins :confusedshrug:

[3peated]

I get so mad everytime this is brought up. Rose in no way deserved that award, Howard or Lebron both greatly deserved it over him, I would have prefered Howard got it , but whatever. **** Rose.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Point me to the Nash fans who go on about him constantly

Its not like Nash hasn't had a ton of shit for his MVPs in the past. And Rose is still constantly in the media whereas Nash is essentially gone from everyone's minds now. Plus Rose's team did well without him, and Nash's never did.

and imo he wouldn't even have been in my top 3 that year, so

[ImKobe]

I get so mad everytime this is brought up. Rose in no way deserved that award, Howard or Lebron both greatly deserved it over him, I would have prefered Howard got it , but whatever. **** Rose.

Rose averaged 25/4/8 while his team won 62 games :confusedshrug:

Team has yet to win 50 games since he tore his ACL :confusedshrug:, closest they got to was 48.

11th best ORTG in his MVP season
5th the next year with him playing most of the season and they won 50 games out of 66
he goes down and they're 23rd on offense the following year, 28th last year

seems like he was a pretty important piece for that team and his MVP was justified.

[T_L_P]

Ultimately, because he was a weak MVP.

Did he deserve it? I guess. But Paul and Dwight had a bigger impact on the floor. And it was a weak year for individual players, especially with Wade and Bran cancelling each other out.

Nash gets shit too...and Nash was more likable than Rose (Rose has developed a beta reputation, as wrong as that is).

[SouBeachTalents]

I don't think getting completely outplayed by LeBron in the ECF helped his cause

[Heavincent]

I don't think getting completely outplayed by LeBron in the ECF helped his cause

And Bran's pathetic Finals performance didn't help his cause.

It's a regular season award anyway.

[j3lademaster]

I will say Rose's 2011 season was easily one of the most ridiculous single season of highlights I've ever witnessed. If MVP went out to the rightfully most individually impactful player(which is my interpretation of "most valuable") then it'd be going to a big man almost every season. However, the league's got to sell its flashy guards because those are the moves kids at the park want to copy, those are the guys you want to use to drop 50 with on NBA 2k, and those are the jersies people want to buy and sport. Hell, I'm one of those people who eat up the quick guards.

The league does have a big man bias since MJ's retirement, it's really pretty obvious. AI's one of my favorite players of all time, but when he won the MVP over peak Shaq... oh man. It was clear the message the league was sending: you have to be THIS much better than the perimeter player if you want to win an MVP as a big.

[sportjames23]

sorry, Nash has that on lockdown.


I dunno. I see more Rose MVP hate here at ISH than I do Nash MVP hate.

I don't agree with Nash winning it two years in a row, but I don't hate the fact that he did win. And naturally, as a Bulls fan, I have no problem with Rose winning it, but that shit he gets for it...SMH. Of course, him missing most of the next two seasons only gave his haters more ammo, but still.

[dubeta]

You never become the same if you win MVP over LeBron

THe LeCurse

[Genaro]

Howard deserved that win even thought I'm a Laker fan and don't like him, I must admit.
Nash got 2 undeserved trophies but I think people don't hate that much because he was so likable.

[bdreason]

I think some people are tired of the MVP award becoming the "best media story in the NBA" award.

[T_L_P]

Howard deserved that win even thought I'm a Laker fan and don't like him, I must admit.
Nash got 2 undeserved trophies but I think people don't hate that much because he was so likable.

05 award was more than deserved, tbh.

[Joyner82reload]

He stole Dwight's MVP. And he's by far the worst MVP in league history.

[G-train]

The MVP isn't a credible award. Who cares what journalists think?
He was just their favorite that year.

[G0ATbe]

Because he didn't deserve it. Kobe did.

[G-train]

Rose averaged 25/4/8 while his team won 62 games :confusedshrug:


Chicago had an excellent all round team.
Personally I think the Thunder had 2 players better than Rose in '11, neither of which received a single first place vote.
But I take more into consideration that a couple of stat categories.

[Collie]

Funny thing is, if Dwight won in 2011, we'd be bashing HIM instead. 100% sure about it.

[Pointguard]

I will say Rose's 2011 season was easily one of the most ridiculous single season of highlights I've ever witnessed. If MVP went out to the rightfully most individually impactful player(which is my interpretation of "most valuable") then it'd be going to a big man almost every season.

Jordan played in the greatest bigman era and he rightfully could have been the MVP every healthy year. And Magic and Bird the previous seven years before that. What are you saying??? Shaq, the most dominant player I ever saw, could not carry the offense of a team to a championship round himself. Or at least not like Kobe, Jordan, Isiah, Lebron, Rick Barry or AI. Shaq or Kareem didn't stay in the finals like Bird or Magic. Most impactful players: 80's Magic and Bird. 90's Jordan. 00's Kobe, '10's Lebron thus far. Did I miss something?

[SCdac]

Dwight would have been an even weaker MVP in retrospect. Not that the playoffs matter in voting, but his team was bounced by the ATL Hawks in round one while Dwight scored alot but turned the ball over a ton. Hawks single covered him, stayed home on shooters, and it worked to beat Orlando. Rose on the other hand was scoring alot and running point for a low scoring, elite team. Shot the 3-ball well in the 62 wins (.36%) and was clutch as a mofo. Nash's first MVP is more questionable imo.

[Pointguard]

He stole Dwight's MVP. And he's by far the worst MVP in league history.

Dwight has no case whatsoever. He lost his first team because the owner thought they were wimps, and DH the lead wimp. No way was Dwight going to be the MVP of two teams. Rose thoroughly outplayed him against elite teams, and in big games after March 1st when Chicago gained 8and a half games on Orlando. Including outscoring Dwight Howard in the paint in a key win to set up the seeding for the playoffs.

[deja vu]

sorry, Nash has that on lockdown.
Nash benefited from a run and gun, no defense system that inflated stats.

Even Jeremy Lin looked like prime Jordan with the D'Antoni system.

[T_L_P]

Jordan played in the greatest bigman era and he rightfully could have been the MVP every healthy year. And Magic and Bird the previous seven years before that. What are you saying??? Shaq, the most dominant player I ever saw, could not carry the offense of a team to a championship round himself. Or at least not like Kobe, Jordan, Isiah, Lebron, Rick Barry or AI. Shaq or Kareem didn't stay in the finals like Bird or Magic. Most impactful players: 80's Magic and Bird. 90's Jordan. 00's Kobe, '10's Lebron thus far. Did I miss something?

http://oi61.tinypic.com/34td255.jpg

How are you gonna sit there and say Kobe had the biggest impact on the court in the 2000s?

Though I do agree that the MVP shouldn't go to a big every year, certainly not this decade (so far). LeBron isn't a big man and he's clearly been the most impactful player of the past 8 years.

[SCdac]

not to derail, but agreed that 00's clearly belonged to Duncan and Shaq. Won what 7/10 championships that decade? With KG winning in 08

[sportjames23]

Funny thing is, if Dwight won in 2011, we'd be bashing HIM instead. 100% sure about it.


I wouldn't doubt it. :oldlol:

[Fire Colangelo]

Nash turned a 29 win team into a 62 win team in 05.

The only player that was in the MVP discussion was Shaq, who turned a 42 win team into a 59 win team (a few of those wins probably came from Wade's improvement from the previous year).

I don't get how it's a travesty for Nash to win MVP in 05...

[Mr Exlax]

D12 should have won it that year. Top like 3 or 4 seed with him and a lotto team without him. He did the most with the least amount of help that year.

[ZenMaster]

Because people don't like players who are under contract but don't play for long periods.

[Pointguard]

http://oi61.tinypic.com/34td255.jpg

How are you gonna sit there and say Kobe had the biggest impact on the court in the 2000s?

Though I do agree that the MVP shouldn't go to a big every year, certainly not this decade (so far). LeBron isn't a big man and he's clearly been the most impactful player of the past 8 years.
Kobe was in more finals and championship runs than anybody in that time period. I thought Shaq had more impact the first three years. For sure but definitely not in the last 6 years. And yeah, I think since 09 to now, Lebron has an argument and you can extend that some. But he didn't play the whole decade.

I like Duncan's career the best but it was weirdly shaped and never got to do a back to back - the hardest thing in the sport. Duncan was always a great threat and was consistently a top notch threat. KG and Dirk also had their runs but I don't think of them as the type of big that the poster was referring to. Kobe got my vote only on grounds that for the first three years that team was fearful, and for the last three years they were the best team (outside of '08). But I just said this off the top of my head.

[Papaya Petee]

Because 24\8\5 on 44% aren't MVP numbers. Those are worse than LeBron\Wade\Kobe bad\injury season numbers.

He underachieved in the playoffs, got murdered against the Heat, and his team won 62 games because of the defensive effort and great coaching.

[Pointguard]

Because 24\8\5 on 44% aren't MVP numbers. Those are worse than LeBron\Wade\Kobe bad\injury season numbers.
Why would you compare them to him other seasons? You only compare him to them that season. You are aware of that right? Rose was the only player in the top ten in scoring and assist and was only 3ppg behind the leader.


He underachieved in the playoffs, got murdered against the Heat, and his team won 62 games because of the defensive effort and great coaching.
He won two playoff series himself - on his back. That's great for a 22 year old. Very few 22 year olds have ever done that. But this absolutely has nothing to do with the MVP. You are aware of that?

The answer you are giving is that most people don't have a clue as to what the MVP is.

[BigTicket]

Because he is the least accomplished MVP in league history.

He's still young though, so maybe he will change that.

[LEFT4DEAD]

"Declining" Lebron has better stats than MVP Rose.

/thread

[Myth]

Chicago had an excellent all round team.
Personally I think the Thunder had 2 players better than Rose in '11, neither of which received a single first place vote.
But I take more into consideration that a couple of stat categories.

I like how you edited out the rest of his post that was relevant to addressing how good the rest of the team was :applause:

[Lebron23]

Nash benefited from a run and gun, no defense system that inflated stats.

Even Jeremy Lin looked like prime Jordan with the D'Antoni system.


And Kendall Marshall http://www.bucksketball.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/i.jpg

[pegasus]

"Declining" Lebron has better stats than MVP Rose.

/thread
The difference is one of them carried his team in the 4th quarters all season long, whereas the other one has been an hindrance to his team.

[LEFT4DEAD]

The difference is one of them carried his team in the 4th quarters all season long, whereas the other one has been an hindrance to his team.
No.
Their defense and Thibs had much more to do with winning than Rose being clutch or some shit like that. He had couple of great games, but that MVP was a very discutable one.

P.S. I dont even care so much about it, because there were, and there will be somehow undeserveable MVPs.
Im just sayin`why so many people are not satisfied with it.

[j3lademaster]

http://oi61.tinypic.com/34td255.jpg

How are you gonna sit there and say Kobe had the biggest impact on the court in the 2000s?

Though I do agree that the MVP shouldn't go to a big every year, certainly not this decade (so far). LeBron isn't a big man and he's clearly been the most impactful player of the past 8 years.Bird, Magic and Lebron are tough to define. You can put those guys at the power forward position without feeling like they are out of position. I don't want to argue semantics, but I've always imagined those guys as bigs because they can comfortably fill a power forward role, not because of their natural positions.

My post was originally just aimed at the fact that the league is biased towards small flashy guards and are inclined to give MVP's to the Roses over the Howards and FMVP's to the Parkers over the Duncans... if the bigs don't create huge separation.

[j3lademaster]

Jordan played in the greatest bigman era and he rightfully could have been the MVP every healthy year. And Magic and Bird the previous seven years before that. What are you saying??? Shaq, the most dominant player I ever saw, could not carry the offense of a team to a championship round himself. Or at least not like Kobe, Jordan, Isiah, Lebron, Rick Barry or AI. Shaq or Kareem didn't stay in the finals like Bird or Magic. Most impactful players: 80's Magic and Bird. 90's Jordan. 00's Kobe, '10's Lebron thus far. Did I miss something?

Magic won a ring playing center, Lebron was primarily a power forward and lead his team in rebounding in the deep Heat championship runs and also ran the offense from the high post often, Bird would guard the power forward against a team like Dominique's Hawks because McHale had better lateral movement to defend the perimeter(and you can even argue Bird's the better rebounder). Hell, Magic would often guard the power forward and leave the guard defending duties to Cooper/Scott. Guys like Lebron, Bird, and Magic can all play the perimeter and interior(at least in their respective eras). They're really impossible to define as just an outside or inside guy.

Semantics aside, okay. Lebron, MJ(who I already did kind of imply as the exception in my original post), Bird, Magic are some guys who can be seen as the most impactful players for multiple years of their careers. How does that affect my premise: "If MVP went out to the rightfully most individually impactful player(which is my interpretation of "most valuable") then it'd be going to a big man ALMOST every season." Historically bigs were more impactful on the floor were they not? :confusedshrug:

[j3lademaster]

Shaq, the most dominant player I ever saw, could not carry the offense of a team to a championship round himself. Or at least not like Kobe, Jordan, Isiah, Lebron, Rick Barry or AI.Okay let's keep defense out of this, because that's where bigs create the most separation for themselves as "more impactful". Strictly speaking offensively, you believe Isiah Thomas and AI were more impactful on the court than peak Shaq?

[nathanjizzle]

No.
Their defense and Thibs had much more to do with winning than Rose being clutch or some shit like that. He had couple of great games, but that MVP was a very discutable one.

P.S. I dont even care so much about it, because there were, and there will be somehow undeserveable MVPs.
Im just sayin`why so many people are not satisfied with it.

27 points and 7 assists againt the top 8 teams in the league. about 20 games. "a couple of great games" you dont know what you are talking about. :facepalm

[ILLsmak]

Okay let's keep defense out of this, because that's where bigs create the most separation for themselves as "more impactful". Strictly speaking offensively, you believe Isiah Thomas and AI were more impactful on the court than peak Shaq?

Maybe... if dude's cant make shots. You can't stop little guys like you can stop a big. I see what he's saying. They gotta bring the ball up and feed it to the big. Seen many plays where Shaq couldn't even get the ball cuz his team was too incompetent to feed the post. At that point, yes, they are more impactful.

That's why having someone like Kobe, Penny or Wade is good for a guy like Shaq. You don't even need an all time great SG just someone who can score. Someone better than Eddie Jones. Klay Thompson would be gg. You can't score in today's NBA with one big and nothing else. Now, on a well rounded team of course Shaq is more impactful.

-Smak

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

No.
Their defense and Thibs had much more to do with winning than Rose being clutch or some shit like that. He had couple of great games, but that MVP was a very discutable one.

P.S. I dont even care so much about it, because there were, and there will be somehow undeserveable MVPs.
Im just sayin`why so many people are not satisfied with it.

They had the exact same, or even better defense after Rose got injured but ended up losing in the first round then not even winning 50 games the next season.

Before Rose's injuries started flaring up in 2012 the Bulls were on pace to win almost 55 games. They missed Noah and Boozer half the season in 2011 and still won 62 games. The one constant in that was Rose. I don't understand how that doesn't correlate to an MVP.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Before Rose's injuries started flaring up in 2012 the Bulls were on pace to win almost 55 games. They missed Noah and Boozer half the season in 2011 and still won 62 games. The one constant in that was Rose. I don't understand how that doesn't correlate to an MVP.
Thank You ...

Meanwhile you have Western Conference stans proclaiming Curry as definitive MVP in early December, saying he's a "level above 2011 Rose" even though the raw numbers are exactly the same, Curry scores 1 less PPG, on a much higher pace team with more talent.

He's better why? Because they like the way his push shot looks in comparison to Derrick?

Rose was carrying, and delivering BIG time in 4th quarters that season to win games. Totally took over whenever the situation called, and dominated the best teams, or elite contemporaries at his his position. With little consistent offensive help. Boozer, and Noah both missed a ton of games that season.

Dwight wasn't leading the Magic to clutch wins like Derrick.
Dirk was hurt, and missed too many games unlike Derrick.
LeBron, and Wade teamed up to cancel each other out for MVP votes.

It's very simple, Derrick was the obvious 2011 MVP. 2011 Bulls had no business winning 60+ games. And the East that season wasn't terrible either.