No Indictment in Eric Garner case either

[KyrieTheFuture]

****in A man, this is absurd.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/nyregion/grand-jury-said-to-bring-no-charges-in-staten-island-chokehold-death-of-eric-garner.html

[Nanners]

This is about 10000x worse than what happened with Michael Brown. If these protesters want to rally around a martyr, this should be their guy.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Ruled a homocide by chokehold (illegal procedure for cops). Nah, nothing to see here.

[gts]

moral of the story... if you're an overweight slob with several health issues including coranary desease and you get caught doing something illegal don't resist arrest

[oh the horror]

I'm fine with this. Know why?


Let this shit keep happening and these officers keep getting off.


Shit is going to blow like a volcano in this country, watch.



Protests and riots are just BS for now.

[Nanners]

moral of the story... if you're an overweight slob with several health issues including coranary desease and you get caught doing something illegal don't resist arrest

I would say the moral of the story is that police in america are not accountable to anybody

[KyleKong]

Ruled a homocide by chokehold (illegal procedure for cops). Nah, nothing to see here.

I'm not sure what is worse in this case.

The fact that the cop used an ILLEGAL chokehold on someone who eventually died from it.

Or

The fact that non of the emergency respondents helped him when there is VIDEO EVIDENCE of him pleading that he can't breathe.

[gts]

I'm not sure what is worse in this case.

The fact that the cop used an ILLEGAL chokehold on someone who eventually died from it.

Or

The fact that non of the emergency respondents helped him when there is VIDEO EVIDENCE of him pleading that he can't breathe.it's not illegal, just not part of NYPD's recommended tactics but it's not considered illegal according to the NYPD rep on the news


NY grand juries are made up of 23 jurors it takes 11 to vote for an indictment

obviously they felt Garners actions in resisting arrest and health issues played more of a role in his death than the officers use of force

[Patrick Chewing]

Now this is one cop I agree should be punished.



New York, baby. Unfortunate.

[KyleKong]

it's not illegal, just not part of NYPD's recommended tactics but it's not considered illegal according to the NYPD rep on the news


NY grand juries are made up of 23 jurors it takes 11 to vote for an indictment

obviously they felt Garners actions in resisting arrest and health issues played more of a role in his death than the officers use of force

Ok, I believed it was illegal for a cop to use that kind of move.

Still does not change the fact that Garner was pleading for help and they just stood there while he died. No excuse for that, multiple people should be going to prison.

[Nanners]

Ok, I believed it was illegal for a cop to use that kind of move.


To clear up the semantics here - There is no law on the books that states it is illegal for a cop to use a chokehold, but chokeholds are banned from use according to NYPD rules.

[longhornfan1234]

He should have resisted arrest. Case closed.

[KyleKong]

To clear up the semantics here - There is no law on the books that states it is illegal for a cop to use a chokehold, but chokeholds are banned from use according to NYPD rules.

That is redundant as fvck

[zoom17]

This is about 10000x worse than what happened with Michael Brown. If these protesters want to rally around a martyr, this should be their guy.

Exactly this was recorded on camera unlike the Mike brown case where only the aftermath is recorded.

[Akrazotile]

I would say the moral of the story is that police in america are not accountable to anybody


If only liberals were as worried about criminals and the way they behave as they are about how police officers respond to it.

[rezznor]

This is about 10000x worse than what happened with Michael Brown. If these protesters want to rally around a martyr, this should be their guy.
agreed. this is who they should be marching for. too bad there's no catchy slogan for Garner.

how about "don't choke me bro"

[Jailblazers7]

If only liberals were as worried about criminals and the way they behave as they are about how police officers respond to it.

Hey now, we are really interested in prosecuting bankers and financial institutions that do bad things.

[Nanners]

agreed. this is who they should be marching for. too bad there's no catchy slogan for Garner.

how about "don't choke me bro"

"I cant breathe"

[Nanners]

If only liberals were as worried about criminals and the way they behave as they are about how police officers respond to it.

yeah if only liberals were more worried about guys selling loosie ciggarettes

[Akrazotile]

Hey now, we are really interested in prosecuting bankers and financial institutions that do bad things.


And I absolutely am as well, as long as we distinguish between unlawful and distasteful, bc taking advantage of public apathy is not always the former, despite the left's croc tears to the contrary.

[SunsN07BookIt]

This is about 10000x worse than what happened with Michael Brown. If these protesters want to rally around a martyr, this should be their guy.

I agree. I'm not sure if the cop should be convicted but he should have at least been indicted and have the case go to trial. All the fuss over Michael Brown. :facepalm

[ace23]

This is about 10000x worse than what happened with Michael Brown. If these protesters want to rally around a martyr, this should be their guy.
This

[Akrazotile]

Now this case, granted, is more dicey than the Teddy Bear case. The cop in this instance did something he was explicitly not supposed to do.

On the other hand, what else COULD he have done? This was a very large man who was not acquiescing to a lawful arrest. Whether you think the crime was trivial or not, the officer doesn't decide what's legal and what's not. He had to make an arrest on a man too large to subdue by typical means. If he had tazed the guy instead he very well still may have ended up dying, and people would just be outraged about that instead.

This dude had been arrested like TWENTY TIMES before. So it wasn't as if he had any excuses here. And the dude had like 6 kids and he's hanging around the street corner sellings cigs and collecting welfare. ****ing loser.

It's so ridiculous how the black community and white liberals want to give blacks carte blanche to INVITE trouble, and then scream and cry and pee their pants when they get it. You kids need to grow up. If I walked up to a black guy and said "HEY N1GGER!" and he beat the fukk out of me, how many of you would cry out for justice that my attacker be flayed and imprisoned for what he did? None of you. You'd all be saying "that's what you get, you went and asked for trouble and you got it, here's a darwin award."

The problem is that like most people, you idiots only see things in terms of "this or that." If it's not one thing it must be the opposite. You either treat blacks like infants, or you're racist. No in between as far as libs are concerned. It's nobody elses fault you guys are hyper sensitive, prone to mob think, and terrified of being labeled. America needs people to reach REAL solutions and principles, not one where you pass the buck out of fear just so that you can hold your hands up (no pun intended) and say "hey, i aint the one thats racist!" even as you do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to solve the problems. Your main concern is holding that phony moral high ground. Keep holding up those hands and saying "dont look at me, i aint racist!" as urban communities delve further and further into shit basins that affect the people in them and outside of them negatively. Hey, as long as nobody can call you racist, right!??! ******.

[Godzuki]

mf'ers just can't obey authority :facepalm

only if black people rallied behind someone that didn't do something dumb, that most decent people wouldn't :rolleyes:

[dude77]

he was completely outnumbered .. no need for that chokehold .. now, did he die from the chokehold or from being held down against the pavement .. if it's the latter then they'll just argue that they were trying to restrain him and it was accidental

[dkmwise]

Surprised at this decision for sure

[KevinNYC]

he was completely outnumbered .. no need for that chokehold .. now, did he die from the chokehold or from being held down against the pavement .. if it's the latter then they'll just argue that they were trying to restrain him and it was accidental

Have you ever heard of someone being "held down against the pavement" to death?

[Akrazotile]

Have you ever heard of someone being "held down against the pavement" to death?


Holding a large struggling person down on the pavement often requires basically sitting or kneeling on top of them, which can cause asphyxiation. Pretty sure thats what hes talking about. But I guess now that the truth has been exposed in the Teddy Bear case that you were shamelessly injecting your partisan bias into, you have to transfer your tired pedantic act over to this one like a fukkin locust.


You probably argued in defense of OJ too :facepalm

[ALBballer]

This case is worst than Micheal Brown and there was no need to perform a chokehold but on the other hand the guy is arresting arrest and he did have asthma which the medical examiners listed as a contributing factor to his death.

This case is much more difficult to say who was right or wrong but the police officer in the very least should receive punishment for not using protocol.

[SCdac]

Very reminiscent of the killing of Kelly Thomas (a white homeless man) a few years ago...Full video is on youtube, some of you may remember it... Definitely weaaak. Cops should be held accountable in stuff like this... Much clearer case of cop abuse than the Brown case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas

[ThePhantomCreep]

Now this case, granted, is more dicey than the Teddy Bear case. The cop in this instance did something he was explicitly not supposed to do.

On the other hand, what else COULD he have done? This was a very large man who was not acquiescing to a lawful arrest. Whether you think the crime was trivial or not, the officer doesn't decide what's legal and what's not. He had to make an arrest on a man too large to subdue by typical means. If he had tazed the guy instead he very well still may have ended up dying, and people would just be outraged about that instead.

This dude had been arrested like TWENTY TIMES before. So it wasn't as if he had any excuses here. And the dude had like 6 kids and he's hanging around the street corner sellings cigs and collecting welfare. ****ing loser.

It's so ridiculous how the black community and white liberals want to give blacks carte blanche to INVITE trouble, and then scream and cry and pee their pants when they get it. You kids need to grow up. If I walked up to a black guy and said "HEY N1GGER!" and he beat the fukk out of me, how many of you would cry out for justice that my attacker be flayed and imprisoned for what he did? None of you. You'd all be saying "that's what you get, you went and asked for trouble and you got it, here's a darwin award."

The problem is that like most people, you idiots only see things in terms of "this or that." If it's not one thing it must be the opposite. You either treat blacks like infants, or you're racist. No in between as far as libs are concerned. It's nobody elses fault you guys are hyper sensitive, prone to mob think, and terrified of being labeled. America needs people to reach REAL solutions and principles, not one where you pass the buck out of fear just so that you can hold your hands up (no pun intended) and say "hey, i aint the one thats racist!" even as you do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to solve the problems. Your main concern is holding that phony moral high ground. Keep holding up those hands and saying "dont look at me, i aint racist!" as urban communities delve further and further into shit basins that affect the people in them and outside of them negatively. Hey, as long as nobody can call you racist, right!??! ******.

And the rambling idiot award goes to...

[DonDadda59]

No surprise here. Cops are untouchable, especially the NYPD. If there were no repercussions (not counting Civil suits, which will probably happen here) for Amadou Diallo and Sean Bell, I figured there wouldn't be any here. But damn, not even clear real time video evidence is enough...

[Akrazotile]

Very reminiscent of the killing of Kelly Thomas (a white homeless man) a few years ago...Full video is on youtube, some of you may remember it... Definitely weaaak. Cops should be held accountable in stuff like this... Much clearer case of cop abuse than the Brown case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas


This one was much different, because the guy WAS completely subdued and the cops just beat him to death basically out of aggravation. They should have absolutely been punished more severely.

The case the OP is about is a very gray area. A lack of indictment does not equate to a confirmation of his conduct. It just means they're not going to indict a guy for murder who made a mistake while trying to perform his job, with no intention of actually killing the guy. He should definitely be punished somehow by the department for the mistake but he should not be legally charged in the death because he made a dumb mistake while trying to perform his thankless duty on a guy who had been warned and arrested several times and was resisting this one. People act like these officers are out slowly creeping around corners in their car as ominous music plays, just looking for easy black targets to rush up on. This case, the michael brown case, the kelly thomas case, all involved people COMMITTING CRIMES AND RESISTING ARREST. What ensued afterward ranged from reasonable to mistake to malicious. But again, people WANT to see this through the lens of "witch hunt the guys with authority." It's the same double standard that if you make fun of christians its edgy and cool, make fun of muslims youre racist. make fun of rich people its hip, make fun of poor people youre an asshole. people resent the majority, the establishment, the authority etc and believe its ok for david to bully goliath, but always get in a tizzy when goliath pushes back.

but the reality is in all of these cases, the cops did not CREATE the problem nor were they even the ones to first ESCALATE the problem. In each case, it was the criminals who did so.

In the cases where cops did something wrong, they have to be reprimanded to an appropriate degree, but the witch hunting is misplaced. Again, where is the outrage over the CRIME that is leading to these confrontations??

[Charlie Sheen]

Now this case, granted, is more dicey than the Teddy Bear case. The cop in this instance did something he was explicitly not supposed to do.

On the other hand, what else COULD he have done? This was a very large man who was not acquiescing to a lawful arrest. Whether you think the crime was trivial or not, the officer doesn't decide what's legal and what's not. He had to make an arrest on a man too large to subdue by typical means. If he had tazed the guy instead he very well still may have ended up dying, and people would just be outraged about that instead.

This dude had been arrested like TWENTY TIMES before. So it wasn't as if he had any excuses here. And the dude had like 6 kids and he's hanging around the street corner sellings cigs and collecting welfare. ****ing loser.

It's so ridiculous how the black community and white liberals want to give blacks carte blanche to INVITE trouble, and then scream and cry and pee their pants when they get it. You kids need to grow up. If I walked up to a black guy and said "HEY N1GGER!" and he beat the fukk out of me, how many of you would cry out for justice that my attacker be flayed and imprisoned for what he did? None of you. You'd all be saying "that's what you get, you went and asked for trouble and you got it, here's a darwin award."

The problem is that like most people, you idiots only see things in terms of "this or that." If it's not one thing it must be the opposite. You either treat blacks like infants, or you're racist. No in between as far as libs are concerned. It's nobody elses fault you guys are hyper sensitive, prone to mob think, and terrified of being labeled. America needs people to reach REAL solutions and principles, not one where you pass the buck out of fear just so that you can hold your hands up (no pun intended) and say "hey, i aint the one thats racist!" even as you do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to solve the problems. Your main concern is holding that phony moral high ground. Keep holding up those hands and saying "dont look at me, i aint racist!" as urban communities delve further and further into shit basins that affect the people in them and outside of them negatively. Hey, as long as nobody can call you racist, right!??! ******.

he's selling loose cigarettes? just have a short chat...ask him not to do it when an nypd officer is looking right at him. tell him to have a nice day.

[Akrazotile]

he's selling loose cigarettes? just have a short chat...ask him not to do it when an nypd officer is looking right at him. tell him to have a nice day.

Yeah except he'd been arrested literally 20+ time already.

The "short chat" method was proving to be neither dominant nor efficient in its efficacy.

[sportsfan76]

this is why I turn the channel once the news reports a cop was killed

[Charlie Sheen]

Yeah except he'd been arrested literally 20+ time already.

The "short chat" method was proving to be neither dominant nor efficient in its efficacy.

What was he arrested for all the other times tho? Petty shit like selling ciggs? That ain't terrorizing the neighborhood.

[sportsfan76]

It's confirmed now that Police have arrest quotas

[SCdac]

This one was much different, because the guy WAS completely subdued and the cops just beat him to death basically out of aggravation. They should have absolutely been punished more severely.

The case the OP is about is a very gray area. A lack of indictment does not equate to a confirmation of his conduct. It just means they're not going to indict a guy for murder who made a mistake while trying to perform his job, with no intention of actually killing the guy. He should definitely be punished somehow by the department for the mistake but he should not be legally charged in the death because he made a dumb mistake while trying to perform his thankless duty on a guy who had been warned and arrested several times and was resisting this one. People act like these officers are out slowly creeping around corners in their car as ominous music plays, just looking for easy black targets to rush up on. This case, the michael brown case, the kelly thomas case, all involved people COMMITTING CRIMES AND RESISTING ARREST. What ensued afterward ranged from reasonable to mistake to malicious. But again, people WANT to see this through the lens of "witch hunt the guys with authority." It's the same double standard that if you make fun of christians its edgy and cool, make fun of muslims youre racist. make fun of rich people its hip, make fun of poor people youre an asshole. people resent the majority, the establishment, the authority etc and believe its ok for david to bully goliath, but always get in a tizzy when goliath pushes back.

but the reality is in all of these cases, the cops did not CREATE the problem nor were they even the ones to first ESCALATE the problem. In each case, it was the criminals who did so.

In the cases where cops did something wrong, they have to be reprimanded to an appropriate degree, but the witch hunting is misplaced. Again, where is the outrage over the CRIME that is leading to these confrontations??

You're touching on a few different things, but I agree with alot of that in terms of calling out the double standards.

Was merely pointing out the similarity in what the cops did and how the person died (ie. pile on top of the person resisting arrest and ultimately kill the person at the scene).

[dkmwise]

I hope that this case can stand on its own merit and not be lumped together by news coverage and politicians with the Ferguson and Cleveland case. I think a lot of people see the injustice here, but if it's tried to be made into a larger issue condemning police no matter what, that it won't get the support it deserves.

[gts]

What was he arrested for all the other times tho? Petty shit like selling ciggs? That ain't terrorizing the neighborhood.That doesn't matter, he didn't die because he was selling cigs, that wasn't even his greatest crime in that moment.. he died because he was resisting arrest.. he turns around puts his hands behind his back and takes his medicine for the crime and he's alive today

Same as Brown, people keep trying to change the narrative saying nobody should die because they stole cigars and pushed the store owner... he didn't, he died because he decided to get physical with a police officer...

[HomieWeMajor]

Some bullschit right there

[SCdac]

That doesn't matter, he didn't die because he was selling cigs, that wasn't even his greatest crime in that moment.. he died because he was resisting arrest.. he turns around puts his hands behind his back and takes his medicine for the crime and he's alive today

Same as Brown, people keep trying to change the narrative saying nobody should die because they stole cigars and pushed the store owner... he didn't, he died because he decided to get physical with a police officer...

basically... moral of the story... once cops make the decision you're under arrest or even just to detain you in cuffs... don't resist!... could cost your life... Sounds like being blindly submissive, but it's better than being dead.

[dkmwise]

That doesn't matter, he didn't die because he was selling cigs, that wasn't even his greatest crime in that moment.. he died because he was resisting arrest.. he turns around puts his hands behind his back and takes his medicine for the crime and he's alive today

Same as Brown, people keep trying to change the narrative saying nobody should die because they stole cigars and pushed the store owner... he didn't, he died because he decided to get physical with a police officer...

I completely agree that the initial crime isn't the important part, its what happens during the confrontation with the police. And no doubt that anyone is in the wrong for resisting arrest and it will never lead to anything good. However there is a still a huge difference between trying to take the gun of a police officer who is by himself and just trying to move your hands to not get them cuffed by about 6 officers. Based on the video that is out there no one appeared to be in any real danger from this subject.

[sportsfan76]

basically... moral of the story... once cops make the decision you're under arrest or even just to detain you in cuffs... don't resist!... could cost your life... Sounds like being blindly submissive, but it's better than being dead.


Remain pleasant especially if you are black:rockon:

[Akrazotile]

You're touching on a few different things, but I agree with alot of that in terms of calling out the double standards.

Was merely pointing out the similarity in what the cops did and how the person died (ie. pile on top of the person resisting arrest and ultimately kill the person at the scene).


For sure, I wasn't targeting that whole lecture at you specifically, just some general opining that got added on to a post where I was initially responding to a point you made.

[RoseCity07]

I really hope that cop gets shot in the head by some gang member. There is no argument to justify what he did. Some asshole cop had the audacity to argue the literal meaning of "I can't breath". His argument was that you can breath if you say that. He really thought that he made a profound point. He just doesn't get it. He doesn't even understand that the fact he said that means he was being choked.

[Charlie Sheen]

That doesn't matter, he didn't die because he was selling cigs, that wasn't even his greatest crime in that moment.. he died because he was resisting arrest.. he turns around puts his hands behind his back and takes his medicine for the crime and he's alive today

Same as Brown, people keep trying to change the narrative saying nobody should die because they stole cigars and pushed the store owner... he didn't, he died because he decided to get physical with a police officer...

I'm sorry but it DOES matter. The sort of person who cant handle a petty offense like jaywalking or selling cigs on the street without making it a huge confrontation ending with such aggression and force doesn't need to have a career in law enforcement. Garner and that officer both played their role in the way it went down. It might be within the cop's power to arrest him, but was it really necessary?

This isn't the same as Brown. Stop trying to attach one to the other. Garner wasn't a suspect of a recent robbery or ANY violent offense. A man lost his life for some petty bs. Both parties share fault in this.

[sportsfan76]

That doesn't matter, he didn't die because he was selling cigs, that wasn't even his greatest crime in that moment.. he died because he was resisting arrest.. he turns around puts his hands behind his back and takes his medicine for the crime and he's alive today

Same as Brown, people keep trying to change the narrative saying nobody should die because they stole cigars and pushed the store owner... he didn't, he died because he decided to get physical with a police officer...


he died because he was big and black

[Godzuki]

it was a freak accident, the cop didn't know fatboy wouuld have a heart attack, therefore worst you can blame him is not following proper police procedure which they pretty much did and required police training.

i love how everyone always pretends subduing someone and getting them in handcuffs when they're resisting is so easy without resorting to anything physical or pulling a gun :rolleyes: would llove to see people on ISH try to subdue Mike Brown or this fatboy.

[sportsfan76]

it was a freak accident, the cop didn't know fatboy wouuld have a heart attack, therefore worst you can blame him is not following proper police procedure which they pretty much did and required police training.

i love how everyone always pretends subduing someone and getting them in handcuffs when they're resisting is so easy without resorting to anything physical or pulling a gun :rolleyes: would llove to see people on ISH try to subdue Mike Brown or this fatboy.


Accident my A$$. He clearly said.........."Please don't touch me and had his arms up in the air"

[DonDadda59]

:confusedshrug:

[INDENT][B]NYPD patrol guide clearly states members cannot use chokeholds

After several people were asphyxiated while in police custody, the NYPD forbade the use of chokeholds in 1983, stating it could only be used when an officer

[Dictator]

Crazy how some people treat police like they're gods. :facepalm

There's no excuses this time for the police's behavior whatsoever.

[abuC]

it was a freak accident, the cop didn't know fatboy wouuld have a heart attack, therefore worst you can blame him is not following proper police procedure which they pretty much did and required police training.

i love how everyone always pretends subduing someone and getting them in handcuffs when they're resisting is so easy without resorting to anything physical or pulling a gun :rolleyes: would llove to see people on ISH try to subdue Mike Brown or this fatboy.

Man shut up, NYC medical examiner ruled his death a HOMICIDE, what is so hard to understand? Compression of the neck ie. choking is what killed him and the chokehold is an illegal move by law.

[KyleKong]

I'm in awe about people defending the Jury's decision right now.

It's not about resisting arrest

It's not about the guys race

It's not about the criminal record he may have had

It's about a cop, ON VIDEO, using an illegal and excessive force, that while other people who were SWORN TO PROTECT just stood there while he pleaded for his life.

That's the issue, it's ****ing disgusting this guy not only avoids prison but everyone involved gets paid to keep doing this kind of shit.

[Dictator]

Where in any part of the video did he resist arrest? :biggums: :biggums:

[KyleKong]

Where in any part of the video did he resist arrest? :biggums: :biggums:

The part where he says he can't breathe is clearly textbook response to resisting arrest.

[brandonislegend]

Any live streams?

[SCdac]

Where in any part of the video did he resist arrest? :biggums: :biggums:

@ 1:34 ... saying "don't touch me, don't touch me" while moving his hands away from the cops when they try to grab his hands. I'm assuming they decided to cuff him at that point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-xHqf1BVE4

look, I don't agree with the cops getting off scott free, but I can understand why that's considered 'resisting' even if the guy and surrounding witnesses thought he was wrongfully being arrested.

[HomieWeMajor]

You just know that if there were n cameras there the cops would have ran wild with the description of the event.
"He grabbed two officers by the neck and started bashing them against each other. I tried to grabbed around his shoulders but his trapezius started to expand which threw me off this Hulk . He dropped both the officers and started charging toward a little old woman and that is where he crossed the line."

[dkmwise]

Where in any part of the video did he resist arrest? :biggums: :biggums:

Well look, he clearly was resisting arrest. Lets keep this discussion honest. He wouldn't obey the officers verbal commands, he slapped the officers hands away when they tried to touch him and when the officers were on top of him he was still trying to get up and get them off of him. So he absolutely resisted arrest. However he did not do anything aggressive toward the officer or attack them in any way, his contact against them was defensive. And there were 5 visible officers in the video. So he wasn't posing a threat to anyone and was way outnumbered. I'm not defending the chokehold by any means, but there's enough evidence here to not have to exaggerate the truth.

[Nanners]

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/124908/events/3634145

livestream of protests going on in NYC right now

[Pointguard]

Cops were called to a scene about two people fighting. Garner had broke up the fight. Two detectives decide to just go at Garner spontaneously once they don't see any perps.

After the 8th cop appeared the chokehold cop, who wasn't trying anything before, just got extra hyped and didn't really try the handcuff route and went immediately for the choke hold. Which was illegal like 10 years ago and is against guidelines now. Garner who was immediately on the ground after the choke hold, said he could not breathe a full 11 times. There is no fighting back by Garner. The nine or so cops are not having a problem with him.

All nine or ten cops do not try to help resuscitate him while he is dying. EMS arrive, they are scared of the police and they don't help either.

[DonDadda59]

You just know that if there were n cameras there the cops would have ran wild with the description of the event.
"He grabbed two officers by the neck and started bashing them against each other. I tried to grabbed around his shoulders but his trapezius started to expand which threw me off this Hulk . He dropped both the officers and started charging toward a little old woman and that is where he crossed the line."

God damn thug got what he deserved :mad: :rant

[christian1923]

Unless you're a black male, you'll never understand what it's like.

[daily]

Crazy how some people treat police like they're gods. :facepalm

There's no excuses this time for the police's behavior whatsoever.The Grand Jury thinks otherwise

[daily]

Cops were called to a scene about two people fighting. Garner had broke up the fight. Two detectives decide to just go at Garner spontaneously once they don't see any perps.

After the 8th cop appeared the chokehold cop, who wasn't trying anything before, just got extra hyped and didn't really try the handcuff route and went immediately for the choke hold. Which was illegal like 10 years ago and is against guidelines now. Garner who was immediately on the ground after the choke hold, said he could not breathe a full 11 times. There is no fighting back by Garner. The nine or so cops are not having a problem with him.

All nine or ten cops do not try to help resuscitate him while he is dying. EMS arrive, they are scared of the police and they don't help either.


Link to a valid source

[dkmwise]

Unless you're a black male, you'll never understand what it's like.

You could say that about literally anything and be correct and also not know what it's like for anyone else either

Unless you're a Women, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Cop, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Native American, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're an illegal alien, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're Asian, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a white male, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're Hispanic, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a convicted felon, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Parent, you'll never understand what it's like

[Pointguard]

Link to a valid source
Your eyes for the most part, if they are a valid source. Since I'm here I read sources everyday. What part would you like me prove to you or that you have questions about? I started to google but too many articles have flooded the net in the last hour.

Found this: The arresting officer cost NYC $30,000
"According to the civil rights lawsuit filed by Rice and his friend Darren Collins, Pantaleo falsely arrested them and strip-searched them in public, pulling down their pants and slapping their genitals while he searched for drugs."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/man-falsely-arrested-daniel-pantaleo-shocked-back-duty-article-1.1890030

[Pointguard]

You could say that about literally anything and be correct and also not know what it's like for anyone else either

Unless you're a Women, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Cop, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Native American, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're an illegal alien, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're Asian, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a white male, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're Hispanic, you'll never understand what it's like


His context relates to the topic at hand. A person that has been violated to consistently or in a big way is much better off talking to a person who either went thru similar pain or has great empathy. Its the way humans are wired.

[Akrazotile]

You could say that about literally anything and be correct and also not know what it's like for anyone else either

Unless you're a Women, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Cop, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Native American, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're an illegal alien, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're Asian, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a white male, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're Hispanic, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a convicted felon, you'll never understand what it's like
Unless you're a Parent, you'll never understand what it's like


Every minority's motto is "equality when we want it! and special treatment when we want it!"

White folks wouldnt be any different if they were a minority. Thats just the nature of power and leverage. All groups try to use it when they can. Its the dumb white emos that let their emotions get manipulated into feeling obligated to treat everyone with a standard that others dont have to treat them with.

Wilt said it best: Nobody roots for Goliath. They just scorn him and try to make him feel guilty. Its natural but eventually you have to grow out of it. Nerds like deucephalluses and others here never do but hey what can ya do. **** that goliath guilt shit. Ill be fair to others but Im not gonna be a doormat just bc im confident and theyre not. Thats their prob.

The world has much bigger problems than a few criminals dying bc they thought they could tussle with stressed out cops and then pull the innocent civilian card. Oops, it didnt work and you died. A couple of the cases might be tough to swallow but even those ones arent some cold blooded predatory murder shit. Criminal fukked with cop, cop didnt follow the rules, criminal dies. Youre not gettin much sympathy from me. Again their are MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger problems globally than a welfare collecting dad of six selling cigs illegally and resisting arrest. The problem is the BIG problems out there require tough uncomfortable introspection and answers. People aint down for that. Dudes like oh the horror are just looking for an EASY outlet for their own frustrations. Picking on goliath is always easy. But thats kids shit. Dudes need to grow up.

[dude77]

you know .. watching that shit again .. I can't defend the cops on this one .. just can't .. this guy wasn't some violent fugitive .. he was breaking up a fight ? .. wtf are they going after him .. cops really are fkn neanderthal retards sometimes .. there was no need for this ..

:52 .. that's fkd up to watch .. you can hear him basically getting snuffed out .. and the cops are completely oblivious .. not a fk given

[dkmwise]

His context relates to the topic at hand. A person that has been violated to consistently or in a big way is much better off talking to a person who either went thru similar pain or has great empathy. Its the way humans are wired.

Certainly, the more you have in common with someone the easier it is to put yourself in their shoes. However as far as context, the statement was said to delegitimize the opinions of anyone who doesn't fall into that specific category

[dude77]

you know .. watching that shit again .. I can't defend the cops on this one .. just can't .. this guy wasn't some violent fugitive .. he was breaking up a fight ? .. wtf are they going after him .. cops really are fkn neanderthal retards sometimes .. there was no need for this ..

:52 .. that's fkd up to watch .. you can hear him basically getting snuffed out .. and the cops are completely oblivious .. not a fk given .. they didn't give one fk if he died at that moment .. weren't ever even considering helping him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ka4oKu1jo

[IGOTGAME]

agreed. this is who they should be marching for. too bad there's no catchy slogan for Garner.

how about "don't choke me bro"

Just came back from Midtown. Tried to see the tree but the protesters shut many of the streets down. The slogan was, "I can't breathe."

[IGOTGAME]

What the conversation needs to be on is the use of deadly force and what allows it. Its needs to be pulled back in, people should not have to be worried about dying with every encounter with a police officer. If that means a couple more police die per year then fine. They are paid handsomely for their level of education and talent. If they don't want that sweet pension then they can leave and someone else could do it. Its not like they are particularly talented or intelligent.

[Akrazotile]

What the conversation needs to be on is the use of deadly force and want allows it. Its needs to be pulled back in, people should not have to be worried about dying with every encounter with a police officer. If that means a couple more police die per year then fine. They are paid handsomely for their level of education and talent. If they don't want that sweet pension then they can leave and someone else could do it. Its not like they are particularly talented or intelligent.


Nah homie we good on that.

That would mean less available officers, which means higher salary demands, lower response to crime.

I think we're good letting criminals who resist arrest die once in a while instead.

But Im glad we had a conversation bout this.

[Pointguard]

Certainly, the more you have in common with someone the easier it is to put yourself in their shoes. However as far as context, the statement was said to delegitimize the opinions of anyone who doesn't fall into that specific category
I think if you read the posts it's clear why he said it. Some people hear are way off base.

[oh the horror]

No, I think he's on base in that we need to start taking about what constitutes deadly force. Because in these situations the lines are becoming blurred and I see many try to justify the reason these people are getting killed by police officers who frankly IMO aren't trained very well to handle pressure situations. Or, they're trained just fine and some of them just aren't cut out to be cops

[IGOTGAME]

Nah homie we good on that.

That would mean less available officers, which means higher salary demands, lower response to crime.

I think we're good letting criminals who resist arrest die once in a while instead.

But Im glad we had a conversation bout this.

With all the overtime police officers do per week it may be cheaper to hire more and limit then to a standard work week.

I'm all about a more educated and trained police force. Most police officers are pretty dumb.

[Pointguard]

No, I think he's on base in that we need to start taking about what constitutes deadly force. Because in these situations the lines are becoming blurred and I see many try to justify the reason these people are getting killed by police officers who frankly IMO aren't trained very well to handle pressure situations. Or, they're trained just fine and some of them just aren't cut out to be cops
What are you referring to?

[Akrazotile]

With all the overtime police officers do per week it may be cheaper to hire more and limit then to a standard work week.

I'm all about a more educated and trained police force. Most police officers are pretty dumb.


The point is if your solution is to just 'let a few more die each year' youre not gonna get enough people willing to do the job. Qualified people are not lining up to be officers as it is. Regardless of how intense you think the intellectual requirements are, the fact is you do have to have clean credit and a clean criminal history, and its not always easy to find people who meet that requirement AND want to be a police officer.

Two things are true: We need cops, and cops are human/imperfect. Its just a reality. Itll always be a reality. Theyre no different than lawyers, mechanics, politicians, burger flippers... Theres bad people in every profession. Cops out there do and have done much shadier shit than accidentally kill a guy who's resisting arrest with a chokehold. It just doesnt make news bc theres no racial element.

If you think youre ever gonna stop ALL instances of police officers from abusing their power, youre wasting time on an impossible ideal. Its never gonna happen. But we still need police. It is what it is.

[oh the horror]

What are you referring to?



I'm thinking of a particular case that comes to mind immediately about a homeless man in SoCal named Kelly Thomas. Not sure if you heard of this case but the guy was basically beaten until his face was just a train wreck. If you haven't heard of it then check it out.


Anyway I sat there and once again watched officers get off on charges and I think I myself how?


This is a trend. They apply deadly force with this man here...a rear naked choke I believe? And when applied you CANT keep a lock on like that for very long. Guy dies and no one gets in trouble for a move supposedly banned from use ?


So, Eric Garner, in a video where he seems fairly harmless gets dog piled after a choke and ends up dying. Was that necessary?


If I sneeze wrong will a cop shoot me down? I mean damn dude you don't know wtf you can do with these guys

[Akrazotile]

I'm thinking of a particular case that comes to mind immediately about a homeless man in SoCal named Kelly Thomas. Not sure if you heard of this case but the guy was basically beaten until his face was just a train wreck. If you haven't heard of it then check it out.


Anyway I sat there and once again watched officers get off on charges and I think I myself how?


This is a trend. They apply deadly force with this man here...a rear naked choke I believe? And when applied you CANT keep a lock on like that for very long. Guy dies and no one gets in trouble for a move supposedly banned from use ?


So, Eric Garner, in a video where he seems fairly harmless gets dog piled after a choke and ends up dying. Was that necessary?


If I sneeze wrong will a cop shoot me down? I mean damn dude you don't know wtf you can do with these guys


Dont resist arrest and youll be alright. Thats the common theme in all these cases.

The cop in the garner case was wrong. Theres no question about it. But humans make mistakes. Dont put an officer in a position to make one on you. Especially if youre a really big guy, inviting an officer into a struggle while hes trying to arrest you will put him very much on edge. These people are human.

[Pointguard]

I'm thinking of a particular case that comes to mind immediately about a homeless man in SoCal named Kelly Thomas. Not sure if you heard of this case but the guy was basically beaten until his face was just a train wreck. If you haven't heard of it then check it out.

Anyway I sat there and once again watched officers get off on charges and I think I myself how?

This is a trend. They apply deadly force with this man here...a rear naked choke I believe? And when applied you CANT keep a lock on like that for very long. Guy dies and no one gets in trouble for a move supposedly banned from use ?

So, Eric Garner, in a video where he seems fairly harmless gets dog piled after a choke and ends up dying. Was that necessary?

If I sneeze wrong will a cop shoot me down? I mean damn dude you don't know wtf you can do with these guys
Thanks.

Yeah here is a video of a guy who did nothing and the cops are ready for the next level without explanation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N30tT93FChQ

How do they get off? Prosecutors need cops to do their job. They are intrinsically connected to get their jobs done. Who is going to prosecute their own foot soilders??? They are going to look out for the cops. Check out how they biased the jurors for at least two weeks in the Darren Wilson case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZiegNiE6f0

[SunsN07BookIt]

What the conversation needs to be on is the use of deadly force and what allows it. Its needs to be pulled back in, people should not have to be worried about dying with every encounter with a police officer. If that means a couple more police die per year then fine. They are paid handsomely for their level of education and talent. If they don't want that sweet pension then they can leave and someone else could do it. Its not like they are particularly talented or intelligent.


Nope but people should expect harm to come to themselves if they resist arrest. If you resist arrest you are an idiot, so are the people who defend the idiots. If people were able to dictate to the police on how they are going to do their job at the moment of an encounter, the nation would be in complete anarchy.

In this case, it looks like the cop did not use good judgment in subduing Garner, and it should have at least gone to trial but it all could have been avoided if he had not resisted. Resist arrest and 100 times out of 100 things get worse. NO EXCEPTIONS. Apparently that is too complicated for those primitive brains out there that have not evolved beyond the flight or fight response most homo sapiens can now control.

[IGOTGAME]

Watching that video, was there even probable cause for that arrest of Garner?

[SunsN07BookIt]

Even FOX News and most right leaning media is saying this case should have gone to trial. And unlike the Brown case I have heard a lot of cops on the radio and TV say they simply can't defend their brother in this case.

[Pointguard]

Watching that video, was there even probable cause for that arrest of Garner?
They came for the fight, and he was a side show. I doubt they seen him sell any cigarettes, its possible, but it definitely doesn't seem that way.

[abuC]

Dont resist arrest and youll be alright. Thats the common theme in all these cases.

The cop in the garner case was wrong. Theres no question about it. But humans make mistakes. Dont put an officer in a position to make one on you. Especially if youre a really big guy, inviting an officer into a struggle while hes trying to arrest you will put him very much on edge. These people are human.


Cops need to be held to a higher standard, they are walking around with loaded weapons and just saying "they're humans" isn't going to cut it. Especially when problems like this don't exist in other countries, some of which include large black populations, why is it that America is the one with police killing civilians at an alarming rate?

The excuses for shitty policing is nauseating, and the victims are blamed for heavy handed tactics. You're really naive if you think black people will be "alright" if they don't resist arrest.

He didn't resist -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/jonathan-ferrell-shot_n_3937175.html

She didn't resist -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/aiyana-stanley-jones-joseph-weekley-trial_n_5824684.html

[Pointguard]

Cops need to be held to a higher standard, they are walking around with loaded weapons and just saying "they're humans" isn't going to cut it. Especially when problems like this don't exist in other countries, some of which include large black populations, why is it that America is the one with police killing civilians at an alarming rate?

The excuses for shitty policing is nauseating, and the victims are blamed for heavy handed tactics. You're really naive if you think black people will be "alright" if they don't resist arrest.

He didn't resist -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/jonathan-ferrell-shot_n_3937175.html

She didn't resist -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/aiyana-stanley-jones-joseph-weekley-trial_n_5824684.html

And the guy in Kmart barely moved for a minute, and the recent 12 year old...

[Dresta]

Where the laws of power hungry politicians and power hungry policemen meet: killing a man trying to enforce a law and tax code that doesn't even make any damn sense.

:facepalm


That's what people don't realise when they draw up arbitrary police powers - that the people executing them will abuse and be irresponsible with them, because what natures do you think are naturally attracted to the police force? Those who wish to exert power and authority over others.

[Godzuki]

Cops need to be held to a higher standard, they are walking around with loaded weapons and just saying "they're humans" isn't going to cut it. Especially when problems like this don't exist in other countries, some of which include large black populations, why is it that America is the one with police killing civilians at an alarming rate?

The excuses for shitty policing is nauseating, and the victims are blamed for heavy handed tactics. You're really naive if you think black people will be "alright" if they don't resist arrest.

He didn't resist -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/jonathan-ferrell-shot_n_3937175.html

She didn't resist -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/aiyana-stanley-jones-joseph-weekley-trial_n_5824684.html


A) because America has guns, LOTS of them

B) because America has a lot mroe hoodlum and gangsta ghetto black people where being a thug/gangsta is glorified thru music and popular culture.


whats nauseating is the disingenuous fairy tale we're all supposed to believe in that all races everywhere at any place are likely to equally commit a crime. just like every race should be equally checked at airports to prevent terrorist acts. PC sheep are just so soft and unrealistic :rolleyes:

[GatorKid117]

Dont resist arrest and youll be alright.

You live in a fantasy land. Wake up.

The most disturbing part of this whole fiasco is the fact that it is not even going to go to trial. You have clear video evidence of a man being choked to death using a banned maneuver that was ruled a homicide by the coroner and that is not enough evidence to indict? Are you kidding me? What needs to be presented to indict cops? A signed letter of intent to kill by the officer?

Anyway, Jon Stewart says it much better than me: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/a9bg2k/the-eric-garner-grand-jury-decision

This sh/t makes me want to stay in fcking China...

[Godzuki]

You live in a fantasy land. Wake up.

The most disturbing part of this whole fiasco is the fact that it is not even going to go to trial. You have clear video evidence of a man being choked to death using a banned maneuver that was ruled a homicide by the coroner and that is not enough evidence to indict? Are you kidding me? What needs to be presented to indict cops? A signed letter of intent to kill by the officer?

Anyway, Jon Stewart says it much better than me: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/a9bg2k/the-eric-garner-grand-jury-decision

This sh/t makes me want to stay in fcking China...


rofl Tiamenman square makes this stuff look like a complete joke. not to mention all of the other fukked up shit China's government and police do. its always funny to me when people act like America's government is so bad then bring up places so much worse. China's government foundation was based on corruption and bribes :rolleyes:

and its funny how none of u mf'ers EVER own up to these people committing crimes or resisting arrest for these things you're protesting about to even happen. its as dishonest and disingenuous retard shit as i've ever seen people be, like blind as fukk.

[highwhey]

Nope but people should expect harm to come to themselves if they resist arrest. If you resist arrest you are an idiot, so are the people who defend the idiots. If people were able to dictate to the police on how they are going to do their job at the moment of an encounter, the nation would be in complete anarchy.

In this case, it looks like the cop did not use good judgment in subduing Garner, and it should have at least gone to trial but it all could have been avoided if he had not resisted. Resist arrest and 100 times out of 100 things get worse. NO EXCEPTIONS. Apparently that is too complicated for those primitive brains out there that have not evolved beyond the flight or fight response most homo sapiens can now control.
"Beyond the flight or fight response" LOL guess which idiot began the fight? The officer, acting irresponsibly with lethal force initiated the whole thing with a chokehold. Since when is it ok for lethal force being permitted if a subject is refusing arrest? There is no free reign for use of force im this situation, especially when the officers are the one ESCALATING the situation. Is this officer retarded? "I want a cool bar stort of me taking down a big guy" over "i will aprehend this man in a responsible manner and at all times adhering to my training"


You tell me who behaved more like an ape?

[Patrick Chewing]

This sh/t makes me want to stay in fcking China...


Please, stay there. Pretty soon no one will speak English in this country and then you'll just be wishing you were back in Ding Dong or Fook Umama.

[gts]

CNN with some grand jury stats

the Grand Jury that listened to the case had 23 people on it, 11 yes votes required for an indictment

50 witnesses, 22 were civilians the others were cops, medics doctors etc etc etc....

The Sargent on the scene during the arrest making decisions was a black female

60 bits of evidence intorduced, 4 of them were videos

[Godzuki]

"Beyond the flight or fight response" LOL guess which idiot began the fight? The officer, acting irresponsibly with lethal force initiated the whole thing with a chokehold. Since when is it ok for lethal force being permitted if a subject is refusing arrest? There is no free reign for use of force im this situation, especially when the officers are the one ESCALATING the situation. Is this officer retarded? "I want a cool bar stort of me taking down a big guy" over "i will aprehend this man in a responsible manner and at all times adhering to my training"


You tell me who behaved more like an ape?


a choke hold, and more specifically in this particular instance, no intended lethal force occurred. a choke hold is not generally considered lethal force, its a norm for subduing in fights. it may not be proper police procedure but there was ZERO intended lethal force applicable here. the fact that he was a fat ass and had a heart attack which was a by product of the choke hold is NOT intended lethal force.

furthermore, physical force was OBVIOUSLY a necessity in this instance since the perp was resisting arrest or restraint. there is no other POSSIBLE interpretation of that than him resisting arrest FORCING physical take down.

GTFO with this pretense that the cop intended to kill him.

[highwhey]

a choke hold, and more specifically in this particular instance, no intended lethal force occurred. a choke hold is not generally considered lethal force, its a norm for subduing in fights. it may not be proper police procedure but there was ZERO intended lethal force applicable here. the fact that he was a fat ass and had a heart attack which was a by product of the choke hold is NOT intended lethal force.

furthermore, physical force was OBVIOUSLY a necessity in this instance since the perp was resisting arrest or restraint. there is no other POSSIBLE interpretation of that than him resisting arrest FORCING physical take down.

GTFO with this pretense that the cop intended to kill him.
Pepper spray? You know what that is?

And just today NPR published an article detailing how the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT found the Cleveland Police Department (let's not be ignorant here, NYPD would more than likely have similar findings if not worse based on eric garner video) culpable of using excessive force: [QUOTE] The AP wraps up some examples of what they found:

[Godzuki]

Pepper spray? You know what that is?

And just today NPR published an article detailing how the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT found the Cleveland Police Department (let's not be ignorant here, NYPD would more than likely have similar findings if not worse based on eric garner video) culpable of using excessive force:

Basically police chose violence as the primary way of handling situations rather than attempting to de-escalate situations because no one holds them accountable.


thats why Holder and the federal justice system today under Obama is a complete joke. they are trying to appease the race agenda rioters, looters, etc. they are not even holding them accountable for committing crimes or setting a deterrence to those acts. they're going after law enforcement pretending they're all supposed to be Officer Friendly's in every situation and talk nice to everyone with a smile to geet everyone who is resisting arrest, taking shots at them, and runnning away to go along quietly.

its just such a one sided agenda'd, unrealistic to reality stance on handling issues law enforcement deals with day in and day out from calls they receive. so they're supposed to sit there talking to someone for an hour trying to get them to go along quietly on every call on every resisting arrest instead of just physically putting them in cuffs, slapping them with resist arrest charges, which takes all but 5 minutes~


either way my main point regarding THIS instance is he was DEFINITELY resisting arrest, and that the officer did not INTEND to kill him like some are portraying it.

[Dictator]

@ 1:34 ... saying "don't touch me, don't touch me" while moving his hands away from the cops when they try to grab his hands. I'm assuming they decided to cuff him at that point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-xHqf1BVE4

look, I don't agree with the cops getting off scott free, but I can understand why that's considered 'resisting' even if the guy and surrounding witnesses thought he was wrongfully being arrested.




Well look, he clearly was resisting arrest. Lets keep this discussion honest. He wouldn't obey the officers verbal commands, he slapped the officers hands away when they tried to touch him and when the officers were on top of him he was still trying to get up and get them off of him. So he absolutely resisted arrest. However he did not do anything aggressive toward the officer or attack them in any way, his contact against them was defensive. And there were 5 visible officers in the video. So he wasn't posing a threat to anyone and was way outnumbered. I'm not defending the chokehold by any means, but there's enough evidence here to not have to exaggerate the truth.



Putting your hands up and saying "don't touch me" isn't resisting arresting.

Trying to turn your head while on the ground so you can breathe is not resisting arrest.

Resisting arrest through non contact does not warrant you to be killed.

:facepalm :facepalm

No excuses.

[97 bulls]

Putting your hands up and saying "don't touch me" isn't resisting arresting.

Trying to turn your head while on the ground so you can breathe is not resisting arrest.

Resisting arrest through non contact does not warrant you to be killed.

:facepalm :facepalm

No excuses.
Preach. It's blike these jackasses are gonna do anything to justify the actions of the police.

Just because you commit a crime, it does not give the police the right to kill you.

For all you morons. If you drive, im sure youve received a traffuc ticket. Thats a crime. Should the police be able to shoot you because of it?

[highwhey]

thats why Holder and the federal justice system today under Obama is a complete joke. they are trying to appease the race agenda rioters, looters, etc. they are not even holding them accountable for committing crimes or setting a deterrence to those acts. they're going after law enforcement pretending they're all supposed to be Officer Friendly's in every situation and talk nice to everyone with a smile to geet everyone who is resisting arrest, taking shots at them, and runnning away to go along quietly.

its just such a one sided agenda'd, unrealistic to reality stance on handling issues law enforcement deals with day in and day out from calls they receive. so they're supposed to sit there talking to someone for an hour trying to get them to go along quietly on every call on every resisting arrest instead of just physically putting them in cuffs, slapping them with resist arrest charges, which takes all but 5 minutes~


either way my main point regarding THIS instance is he was DEFINITELY resisting arrest, and that the officer did not INTEND to kill him like some are portraying it.
Like i said before, cite a law where it says that refusing to be arrested while peacefully moving away allows for the use of excessive/lethal force? Apparently you're under the illusion that resisting arrest is the automatic green light for an officer to do whatever the fkc he wants.

The cops intentions don't matter, his actions DO MATTER. Bracing your arm against the neck of a person affects his vascular system and stops his breathing and when executed for an extended period of time, it can lead to death, but the act itself is LETHAL because you're stopping Necessary bodily functions and jeopardizing a human life. Manslaughter. The law doesn't punish intentions, it punishes ACTIONS.

[Pointguard]

Where the laws of power hungry politicians and power hungry policemen meet: killing a man trying to enforce a law and tax code that doesn't even make any damn sense.

:facepalm

That's what people don't realise when they draw up arbitrary police powers - that the people executing them will abuse and be irresponsible with them, because what natures do you think are naturally attracted to the police force? Those who wish to exert power and authority over others.

I never did cigarettes but he was selling looseys the last few times they caught him (I guess to mitigate charges). I imagine they go for 50 cents??? Maybe a dollar?? They cost about 12 dollars a box here I never seen or heard them going after small people for things like this. Peddlers usually have problems because store owners feel undercut. Police harassment over nickel and dime items was usually personal, and not about taxes.

[russwest0]

damn.

the michael brown case wasn't as cut and dry and this shit.

[brandonislegend]

Damn, this is some bullshit.

[Pointguard]

thats why Holder and the federal justice system today under Obama is a complete joke. they are trying to appease the race agenda rioters, looters, etc.
either way my main point regarding THIS instance is he was DEFINITELY resisting arrest, and that the officer did not INTEND to kill him like some are portraying it.

So now its Obama and the dead man's fault. You are embarrassing yourself. You are a puppet of Fox news which has already abandoned this post because of how crazy it is.

The officer who killed Garner never tried to do anything peacefully and once subdued with 8 officers around him and the man telling him he can't breath 11 times, he never relented on a guy that wasn't fighting him back, and continued until he killed Garner. His intention was more than to just subdue him and that is obvious as your two eyes can tell you. His intention was to harm him and went well beyond subduing him to prove it. He did not do CPR, after he realized he might have went to far. After a person tells you, you are killing them, and you accomplished your goal of subduing him (which was never ever in question) the extra curricular stuff is at the responsibility of the guy who can let the guy breathe or not.

He made his choices and thought it was worth it over the sell of cigarettes that it seems that the officers never seen.

[abuC]

B) because America has a lot mroe hoodlum and gangsta ghetto black people where being a thug/gangsta is glorified thru music and popular culture.



Thank you for proving that you're a racist moron.

[dkmwise]

Putting your hands up and saying "don't touch me" isn't resisting arresting.



Resisting arrest through non contact does not warrant you to be killed.

:facepalm :facepalm

No excuses.

Putting your hands up and saying "don't touch me" isn't resisting arresting.
That is exactly what resisting arrest is.

Trying to turn your head while on the ground so you can breathe is not resisting arrest.
Of coarse not but that's not what I'm talking about

Resisting arrest through non contact does not warrant you to be killed.
Certainly not, I thought that cop WAY over reacted and was completely in the wrong. The fact that the subject DID resist arrest is no excuse for this officers action. I agree there should be outrage here without having to twist any details around and when people try to speak in hyperbole about what happens it only leads to discrediting the case.

[Godzuki]

Thank you for proving that you're a racist moron.


got to love how people are so retard PC these days that straight up reality is considered racist to them :oldlol:

[SunsN07BookIt]

"Beyond the flight or fight response" LOL guess which idiot began the fight? The officer, acting irresponsibly with lethal force initiated the whole thing with a chokehold. Since when is it ok for lethal force being permitted if a subject is refusing arrest? There is no free reign for use of force im this situation, especially when the officers are the one ESCALATING the situation. Is this officer retarded? "I want a cool bar stort of me taking down a big guy" over "i will aprehend this man in a responsible manner and at all times adhering to my training"


You tell me who behaved more like an ape?


Are you purposely being this obtuse or does your brain fail to function normally? The fight began the moment the man refused to be arrested. At that point there was going to be a physical altercation. So yes, Garner did start the fight. Or do you think once someone tells a cop don't touch me, they are going to say, "Oh ok. You don't want to be touched? Why didn't you say so in the first place silly!", and walk away. :oldlol:

Right or wrong, you can't resist arrest, simpletons like you can't wrap your little brains around that. If the cops are in the wrong, then you have to file a complaint with their superiors or the DA, or get a lawyer and sue their ass.

In this case, YES, Garner was the ape, and the cop was the zoo keeper who used a criminal tactic to catch him. This case should have gone to trial, and the cop probably face jail time. But Garner didn't do himself any favors but ignoring common sense and resisting arrest.

[Dictator]

Putting your hands up and saying "don't touch me" isn't resisting arresting.
That is exactly what resisting arrest is.

Trying to turn your head while on the ground so you can breathe is not resisting arrest.
Of coarse not but that's not what I'm talking about

Resisting arrest through non contact does not warrant you to be killed.
Certainly not, I thought that cop WAY over reacted and was completely in the wrong. The fact that the subject DID resist arrest is no excuse for this officers action. I agree there should be outrage here without having to twist any details around and when people try to speak in hyperbole about what happens it only leads to discrediting the case.


Are you purposely being this obtuse or does your brain fail to function normally? The fight began the moment the man refused to be arrested. At that point there was going to be a physical altercation. So yes, Garner did start the fight. Or do you think once someone tells a cop don't touch me, they are going to say, "Oh ok. You don't want to be touched? Why didn't you say so in the first place silly!", and walk away. :oldlol:

Right or wrong, you can't resist arrest, simpletons like you can't wrap your little brains around that. If the cops are in the wrong, then you have to file a complaint with their superiors or the DA, or get a lawyer and sue their ass.

In this case, YES, Garner was the ape, and the cop was the zoo keeper who used a criminal tactic to catch him. This case should have gone to trial, and the cop probably face jail time. But Garner didn't do himself any favors but ignoring common sense and resisting arrest.


http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

The only time he resisted arrest was when he said the words, "Dont touch me." Of course you gonna try to move when a group of people are preventing you from breathing.

[dkmwise]

http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm

:facepalm

I can see it's not worth my energy conversing with you any further.

Have a good day

[highwhey]

Are you purposely being this obtuse or does your brain fail to function normally? The fight began the moment the man refused to be arrested. At that point there was going to be a physical altercation. So yes, Garner did start the fight. Or do you think once someone tells a cop don't touch me, they are going to say, "Oh ok. You don't want to be touched? Why didn't you say so in the first place silly!", and walk away. :oldlol:

Right or wrong, you can't resist arrest, simpletons like you can't wrap your little brains around that. If the cops are in the wrong, then you have to file a complaint with their superiors or the DA, or get a lawyer and sue their ass.

In this case, YES, Garner was the ape, and the cop was the zoo keeper who used a criminal tactic to catch him. This case should have gone to trial, and the cop probably face jail time. But Garner didn't do himself any favors but ignoring common sense and resisting arrest.
Do you know what de-escalating a situation can result in? The absence of a physical altercation. When the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT highlights that a city police department has displayed a pattern of failing to attempt de-escalating situations and instead choosing to use excessive force when less violent options are available proves that police are being irresponsible to the note that they have caught the federal government's attention.

If you're really suggesting that this (illegal) chokehold was the only way to handle this situation, you're absolutely stupid. The cops were never calm, they freaked out bc a large, albeit peaceful man, was arguing with them. No pepper spray, no tazer, let's go straight to the chokehold so i can stop his breathing and compromise his physiological wellbeing.

[dude77]

this really isn't defensible ..

yeah he was resisting .. you take him down and all that .. but once they're on top of him, it's clear the guy isn't going anywhere .. he has like what, 4 people on top of him ..

then as you clearly have him subdued because he has 4 people on top of him, you can hear him losing his breath when he's saying I can't breathe(99 admitted he heard him) .. clear signal he's in trouble/distress .. yet that little bitch 99 continues to press down on his head .. not a fk given .. he didn't care that the guy couldn't breathe .. fk that shit .. can't defend that .. why not cuff him then sit his ass up asap .. their priority is to do whatever they have to, to subdue him WHILE taking their sweet ass time .. if the guy's in trouble, so what ? .. gotta wait .. if you die oh well .. some of these fkers are either fkn dumb or they're trained like cold soldiers

[Pointguard]

Are you purposely being this obtuse or does your brain fail to function normally? The fight began the moment the man refused to be arrested. I'll jump in for highwhey.
So the defensive man started the fight? The man who wasn't the aggressor started the fight?

Did you see an attack or a fight? Do you know what you seen? Arrest would have come with Miranda rights and at least an attempt to try to cuff him before lethal force was an option.



In this case, YES, Garner was the ape, and the cop was the zoo keeper who used a criminal tactic to catch him. This case should have gone to trial, and the cop probably face jail time. But Garner didn't do himself any favors but ignoring common sense and resisting arrest.
They harass Garner all the time. Garner knew that if they really saw him with a bag they would have not let the evidence go - without it they have no case. They were harassing him - arrested him 31 times on nonsense. They were familiar with each other. He knew Eric wasn't violent. Eric trying to feed people and the detectives wasting tax dollars on a guy working for pocket change for a living. Sometimes you have to make a stand for yourself. Human nature demands it. There was an animal and destructive nature on the other side.

And its really obvious except to those who identify with the later.

[SunsN07BookIt]

Do you know what de-escalating a situation can result in? The absence of a physical altercation. When the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT highlights that a city police department has displayed a pattern of failing to attempt de-escalating situations and instead choosing to use excessive force when less violent options are available proves that police are being irresponsible to the note that they have caught the federal government's attention.

If you're really suggesting that this (illegal) chokehold was the only way to handle this situation, you're absolutely stupid. The cops were never calm, they freaked out bc a large, albeit peaceful man, was arguing with them. No pepper spray, no tazer, let's go straight to the chokehold so i can stop his breathing and compromise his physiological wellbeing.


Nobody is suggesting the chokehold was legal or the only way of settling the matter. Read the posts for gawdsake, that's not what I or some of the other posters are contesting about your posts. And you are right, cops are trained to de-escalate the situation, and they are probably guilty of not doing that here. What you can't get through your thick skull and apparently millions of other like Garner, is that once the cops come to arrest you, YOU don't get to dictate to the cops about what they are going to do. They will never not arrest just because you tell them not to, they will never not put handcuffs on you just because you tell them not to. Let them do their job, and sue their ass or try and get them disciplined or fired afterwards if they did something wrong.

Resisting arrest ALWAYS ends up worse for you than complying, just like it did for Garner. Only a complete moron can't grasp this.

[gts]

Nobody is suggesting the chokehold was legal or the only way of settling the matter. Read the posts for gawdsake, that's not what I or some of the other posters are contesting about your posts. And you are right, cops are trained to de-escalate the situation, and they are probably guilty of not doing that here. What you can't get through your thick skull and apparently millions of other like Garner, is that once the cops come to arrest you, YOU don't get to dictate to the cops about what they are going to do. They will never not arrest just because you tell them not to, they will never not put handcuffs on you just because you tell them not to. Let them do their job, and sue their ass or try and get them disciplined or fired afterwards if they did something wrong.

Resisting arrest ALWAYS ends up worse for you than complying, just like it did for Garner. Only a complete moron can't grasp this.

this

once the police utter the words place your hands behind your back or you're under arrest talking time is over...

once you fight back or struggle you're just creating more problems for yourself, just shut up, comply and sort it out sitting on the curb or downtown...

funny thing is this wasn't a new experience to Garner, he'd been arrested what 20 to 30 times? he should have known the drill

[ballup]

Not even a manslaughter charge? City must be desperate to keep as many employed as possible in the NYPD.

[zoom17]

damn.

the michael brown case wasn't as cut and dry and this shit.

This can't believe some posters are defending the cops actions.

[GatorKid117]

STOP RESISTING!!

http://i.imgur.com/pnNyppI.gif

STOP RESISTING I SAID!!!

http://i.imgur.com/FlBSBcO.gif

You cop apologists are so pathetic.

Yes, they are from reddit.

[Akrazotile]

You cop apologists are so pathetic.



I'm just curious why you only speak out about violence from cops and not from groups it is far more frequent among.

Why do you only think violence is wrong when police officers are caught doing it?

[GatorKid117]

I'm just curious why you only speak out about violence from cops and not from groups it is far more frequent among.

Why do you only think violence is wrong when police officers are caught doing it?

This cannot be a serious question can it? I mean, seriously? No one is this stupid.

[Akrazotile]

This cannot be a serious question can it? I mean, seriously? No one is this stupid.


Great answer, gee, you sure didn't dodge that one :rolleyes:



That was about the least clever attempt to change the subject I've ever seen. And trust me, I've seen a lot of people try and change the subject when they can't come up with an answer.

[IamRAMBO24]

This cannot be a serious question can it? I mean, seriously? No one is this stupid.

Yea I think he is being serious. :(

[IamRAMBO24]

Great answer, gee, you sure didn't dodge that one :rolleyes:



That was about the least clever attempt to change the subject I've ever seen. And trust me, I've seen a lot of people try and change the subject when they can't come up with an answer.

The reason why they can't even respond is because it's so dumb it's not worth a response. How the f*ck are you going to compare cop violence vs civilian violence? Cops are in a position of power so they are held to a higher standard. If stuff like this is caught on camera, you can't imagine all the stuff that goes unreported.

[oarabbus]

a choke hold, and more specifically in this particular instance, no intended lethal force occurred. a choke hold is not generally considered lethal force, its a norm for subduing in fights. it may not be proper police procedure but there was ZERO intended lethal force applicable here. the fact that he was a fat ass and had a heart attack which was a by product of the choke hold is NOT intended lethal force.

furthermore, physical force was OBVIOUSLY a necessity in this instance since the perp was resisting arrest or restraint. there is no other POSSIBLE interpretation of that than him resisting arrest FORCING physical take down.

GTFO with this pretense that the cop intended to kill him.


:oldlol: @ this post

What's it called when you kill someone without intent to do so? Depending on the circumstances you can call it second degree murder or manslaughter. You get locked up for that, you go away for a while.



I'm just curious why you only speak out about violence from cops and not from groups it is far more frequent among.

Why do you only think violence is wrong when police officers are caught doing it?


He ONLY thinks violence is wrong when it's police, and ONLY speaks out about violence from cops?

This, ISH, is how you construct an A+ straw man argument.

[oh the horror]

I'm just curious why you only speak out about violence from cops and not from groups it is far more frequent among.

Why do you only think violence is wrong when police officers are caught doing it?


They're authorized henchmen with weaponry and training. A police officer prone to violence is a nightmare for civilians dude.



My ex has this cousin....dude served in the military. He came back, experiences night terrors, chokes his wife and is clearly psychologically damaged.


And he's now a cop.


Police officers are held to a higher standard that a street thug dude. Come on now.

[Akrazotile]

They're authorized henchmen with weaponry and training. A police officer prone to violence is a nightmare for civilians dude.



My ex has this cousin....dude served in the military. He came back, experiences night terrors, chokes his wife and is clearly psychologically damaged.


And he's now a cop.


Police officers are held to a higher standard that a street thug dude. Come on now.



But these stories are so much more rare than everyday murders. Your focus on them is disproportionate even considering a higher standard.

My feeling is that you are not motivated by concern that police are going to be openly beating people in the street on a constant basis, but rather the idea of burning an arrogant authority figure at the stake.


The biggest thing is the resentment of people you are projecting arrogance unto. Honestly, people have more sympathy for humble and remorseful serial murderers than for rich arrogant businessmen. This is why its cool to publicly lust for the blood of any white guy, christian, republican, etc bc its presume the "old boys network" doesnt want you in it and you resent that.

So my issue is people are using phony covers like "omg, violence is wrong u guys! stop the violence! this guy should rot in prison!" But you aint consistent with that and its not because youre afraid police will be just clubbing people blatantly on every corner, its because you want to see an arrogant policeman go DOWN, even if the facts ultimately show he was justified in his actions. You WANTED mike brown murdered callously because you WANTED a police officer to get skewered. Its like the democrats who WANTED soldiers to die while bush was in office, and then they pretended to actually care about them, and it was all just for selfish political reasons.


So all im sayin is dont front. You assume cops are arrogant, and you are HOPING they were wrong in these cases so that theyll be punished. But you dont want them punished bc of what they did - you want them punished for their arrogance.

[oarabbus]

But these stories are so much more rare than everyday murders. Your focus on them is disproportionate even considering a higher standard.

My feeling is that you are not motivated by concern that police are going to be openly beating people in the street on a constant basis, but rather the idea of burning an arrogant authority figure at the stake.


The biggest thing is the resentment of people you are projecting arrogance unto. Honestly, people have more sympathy for humble and remorseful serial murderers than for rich arrogant businessmen. This is why its cool to publicly lust for the blood of any white guy, christian, republican, etc bc its presume the "old boys network" doesnt want you in it and you resent that.

So my issue is people are using phony covers like "omg, violence is wrong u guys! stop the violence! this guy should rot in prison!" But you aint consistent with that and its not because youre afraid police will be just clubbing people blatantly on every corner, its because you want to see an arrogant policeman go DOWN, even if the facts ultimately show he was justified in his actions. You WANTED mike brown murdered callously because you WANTED a police officer to get skewered. Its like the democrats who WANTED soldiers to die while bush was in office, and then they pretended to actually care about them, and it was all just for selfish political reasons.


So all im sayin is dont front. You assume cops are arrogant, and you are HOPING they were wrong in these cases so that theyll be punished. But you dont want them punished bc of what they did - you want them punished for their arrogance.


I want THIS cop punished because he is guilty of the crime of manslaughter, possibly murder.

I don't want Darren Wilson punished because that was an entirely different case with different circumstances.

You see, unlike what you are doing here, some of us are able to critically evaluate scenarios on a case-by-case basis. It has nothing to do with the "resentment of arrogance".

[IamRAMBO24]

But these stories are so much more rare than everyday murders. Your focus on them is disproportionate even considering a higher standard.

My feeling is that you are not motivated by concern that police are going to be openly beating people in the street on a constant basis, but rather the idea of burning an arrogant authority figure at the stake.


The biggest thing is the resentment of people you are projecting arrogance unto. Honestly, people have more sympathy for humble and remorseful serial murderers than for rich arrogant businessmen. This is why its cool to publicly lust for the blood of any white guy, christian, republican, etc bc its presume the "old boys network" doesnt want you in it and you resent that.

So my issue is people are using phony covers like "omg, violence is wrong u guys! stop the violence! this guy should rot in prison!" But you aint consistent with that and its not because youre afraid police will be just clubbing people blatantly on every corner, its because you want to see an arrogant policeman go DOWN, even if the facts ultimately show he was justified in his actions. You WANTED mike brown murdered callously because you WANTED a police officer to get skewered. Its like the democrats who WANTED soldiers to die while bush was in office, and then they pretended to actually care about them, and it was all just for selfish political reasons.


So all im sayin is dont front. You assume cops are arrogant, and you are HOPING they were wrong in these cases so that theyll be punished. But you dont want them punished bc of what they did - you want them punished for their arrogance.

This made absolutely no sense at all.

[Akrazotile]

I want THIS cop punished because he is guilty of the crime of manslaughter, possibly murder.

I don't want Darren Wilson punished because that was an entirely different case with different circumstances.

You see, unlike what you are doing here, some of us are able to critically evaluate scenarios on a case-by-case basis. It has nothing to do with the "resentment of arrogance".


So what did you think a fitting punishment for Rice would have been? He got probation for a heinous physical assault on a woman.

So I guess the garner cops manslaughter should have netted him some community service?

[oarabbus]

So what did you think a fitting punishment for Rice would have been? He got probation for a heinous physical assault on a woman.

So I guess the garner cops manslaughter should have netted him some community service?

To be completely honest, I think it's absurd Rice received such a light punishment. If he was some guy in the hood he'd probably be doing 5 years at least. Which would be a fair punishment for him too, but I guess he was able to afford a good lawyer and somehow (?) garner enough public support to not serve jail time.

The Garner cop should never wear a badge another day in his life and should be spending a long time in jail. You said Rice COULD have killed her, which is true; Garner DID kill a man.

There are some good ideas and points you make in your posts. I'm not gonna pretend like you're rambling pure nonsense, I don't even disagree with all the points you are making. But your overall platform doesn't make sense. It's the same sentiments espoused by people who are just truly ENRAGED and shaking to the CORE in fury about the Redskins.... I mean the people who are LIVID that there are Native Americans who find the name offensive and want it changed.

[Akrazotile]

To be completely honest, I think it's absurd Rice received such a light punishment. If he was some guy in the hood he'd probably be doing 5 years at least. Which would be a fair punishment for him too, but I guess he was able to afford a good lawyer and somehow (?) garner enough public support to not serve jail time.

The Garner cop should never wear a badge another day in his life and should be spending a long time in jail. You said Rice COULD have killed her, which is true; Garner DID kill a man.

There are some good ideas and points you make in your posts. I'm not gonna pretend like you're rambling pure nonsense, I don't even disagree with all the points you are making. But your overall platform doesn't make sense. It's the same sentiments espoused by people who are just truly ENRAGED and shaking to the CORE in fury about the Redskins.... I mean the people who are LIVID that there are Native Americans who find the name offensive and want it changed.


I've said all along the cop in this instance was in the wrong, and should receive some kind of repercussion for it. But I don't think it's outrageous that he wasn't indicted for homicide or manslaughter. Garner was a known delinquent who was in the process of being arrested and would not cooperate. The cop made a dumb decision to subdue him with a choke hold, and the guy died. Yeah, they're not allowed to choke hold, and yeah he should get reprimanded... But there are WAY greater tragedies out there, WAY more grievous occurrences of violence every year that do not get this kind of attention.

The backlash is about him being a cop, and about the racial dichotomy of people involved. For me, those aren't reasons to be MORE outraged than I am about other stuff. I was just as indifferent about the ray rice thing as I was about this. Hey, this chick married the dude, I don't wanna spend tax dollars feeding this guy in prison if the woman herself doesnt even care. I wasn't on a soapbox about Rice, and I'm not on a soapbox about Garner. But many people somehow managed to climb their soapbox in the Rice situation to attack Goodell (wtf?) and although they seem to have no inclination to see Ray Rice's black behind have his livelyhood taken away, they do wanna see another guy's white behind get his livelyhood taken away in the Garner situation. I'm not with that.

[highwhey]

Nobody is suggesting the chokehold was legal or the only way of settling the matter. Read the posts for gawdsake, that's not what I or some of the other posters are contesting about your posts. And you are right, cops are trained to de-escalate the situation, and they are probably guilty of not doing that here. What you can't get through your thick skull and apparently millions of other like Garner, is that once the cops come to arrest you, YOU don't get to dictate to the cops about what they are going to do. They will never not arrest just because you tell them not to, they will never not put handcuffs on you just because you tell them not to. Let them do their job, and sue their ass or try and get them disciplined or fired afterwards if they did something wrong.

Resisting arrest ALWAYS ends up worse for you than complying, just like it did for Garner. Only a complete moron can't grasp this.
Well obviously they won't bc a lot of them are little sh1ts that believe they are the law, when in reality they are tools used to enforce the law. What you don't understand is that resisting arrest does not give any law enforcement the right to kill you while you're unarmed and have not initiated any violent act.

GET IT THROUGH UR FCKING HEAD, RESISTING ARREST SHOULD NOT EQUAL DEATH. The police officer that killed him is fully responsible for ending his life and should be indicted. Intentions do NOT fcking matter, if i go out and drive after drinking a couple beers and kill a pedestrian with my vehicle I will be arrested and punished no matter that my intentions that night did not involve killing someone.