Dante Exum's great move

[SugarHill]

http://i.imgur.com/CMxN2cz.gif http://i.imgur.com/ecExO4z.gif

highlight of the game

Hayward almost had dunk of the year but he fvcked up.

[SyRyanYang]

And his only bucket of the game.

Seriously why do the Jazz select him only to play him 15 minutes a game, it's not like they're contending or anything.

[Wavves]

And his only bucket of the game.

Seriously why do the Jazz select him only to play him 15 minutes a game, it's not like they're contending or anything.
He is only 19 years old, as well as he didn't play collage basketball, so he isn't ready yet to play more minutes.

I understand what you mean though.

[Done_And_Done]

Had the privilege of watching him play in person this year. His stateline won't wow you for now but the eye test clearly shows the kid has an abundance of talent. If I'm a Jazz fan my ballsac is exploding over what this kid could eventually blossom into.

[Magic731]

Had the privilege of watching him play in person this year. His stateline won't wow you for now but the eye test clearly shows the kid has an abundance of talent. If I'm a Jazz fan my ballsac is exploding over what this kid could eventually blossom into.
This. Box score watchers won't rate this guy. But on multiple occasions this year he has shown the ability to make a highlight play. A few more years when he understands the game more and is able to log 30 minutes a night he will be a force to be reckoned with.

[ralph_i_el]

He needs time to learn the small things that let you stay on the court in pro basketball.

If he was playing 20 minutes a game he'd probably average 3.5 turnovers and 3.5 fouls per game right now. That doesn't mean he isn't a super long spiderman type athlete with good court-vision. I'd still want him in the pipeline for my squad.

This is just another testament to why every NBA team needs a D-league team, and people need to relax the stigma associated with lottery picks playing in the D-league.

He's quick as hell and he is remarkably coordinated for having such a lanky build. He's not a great shooter but he's a kid and his shot isn't broken so I wouldn't worry about that.

[Nets fan 93]

Had the privilege of watching him play in person this year. His stateline won't wow you for now but the eye test clearly shows the kid has an abundance of talent. If I'm a Jazz fan my ballsac is exploding over what this kid could eventually blossom into.
So I'm just curious... What exactly do you think he will blossom into? What kind of potential do you see in him?

I'm just asking because the very few jazz games I've seen he hasn't really played.

[chocolatethunder]

He needs time to learn the small things that let you stay on the court in pro basketball.

If he was playing 20 minutes a game he'd probably average 3.5 turnovers and 3.5 fouls per game right now. That doesn't mean he isn't a super long spiderman type athlete with good court-vision. I'd still want him in the pipeline for my squad.

This is just another testament to why every NBA team needs a D-league team, and people need to relax the stigma associated with lottery picks playing in the D-league.

He's quick as hell and he is remarkably coordinated for having such a lanky build. He's not a great shooter but he's a kid and his shot isn't broken so I wouldn't worry about that.
His shot isn't broken in the sense of MKG but he shoots FTs in the 50s so that's not a good sign.

I don't see it with this guy at all. He's not a great leaper, he's weak and he can't shoot. Maybe he'll be good maybe he won't but lots of scrubs have made great plays as rookies and then never given you anything more than that. Tim Thomas did moves that would make your headspin but he was never any good. Darius Miles did a million times. Even dudes like Shannon Brown. Lots of shitty players make nice plays but just can't make them consistently. Maybe he'll be good, I would like that but I don't understand the gushing over this guy. At this point Payton has shown more promise and Smart has at least shown that he's an awesome defender already. That's not to say that in three years that he won't be awesome but I'm inclined to think that he's not going to develop a lot and he'll be a guy who gets a contract or two on potential but never realizes that potential. He just doesn't do anything really well. He's not a great defender or passer or rebounder or shooter. He has a pretty quick first step but he's not in the Wall/Westbrook league. So we'll see.

[Xiao Yao You]

He needs time to learn the small things that let you stay on the court in pro basketball.

If he was playing 20 minutes a game he'd probably average 3.5 turnovers and 3.5 fouls per game right now. That doesn't mean he isn't a super long spiderman type athlete with good court-vision. I'd still want him in the pipeline for my squad.

This is just another testament to why every NBA team needs a D-league team, and people need to relax the stigma associated with lottery picks playing in the D-league.

He's quick as hell and he is remarkably coordinated for having such a lanky build. He's not a great shooter but he's a kid and his shot isn't broken so I wouldn't worry about that.

Agreed about the D-league. Jazz finally have their own team again and still don't use it.

[outbreak]

His shot isn't broken in the sense of MKG but he shoots FTs in the 50s so that's not a good sign.

I don't see it with this guy at all. He's not a great leaper, he's weak and he can't shoot. Maybe he'll be good maybe he won't but lots of scrubs have made great plays as rookies and then never given you anything more than that. Tim Thomas did moves that would make your headspin but he was never any good. Darius Miles did a million times. Even dudes like Shannon Brown. Lots of shitty players make nice plays but just can't make them consistently. Maybe he'll be good, I would like that but I don't understand the gushing over this guy. At this point Payton has shown more promise and Smart has at least shown that he's an awesome defender already. That's not to say that in three years that he won't be awesome but I'm inclined to think that he's not going to develop a lot and he'll be a guy who gets a contract or two on potential but never realizes that potential. He just doesn't do anything really well. He's not a great defender or passer or rebounder or shooter. He has a pretty quick first step but he's not in the Wall/Westbrook league. So we'll see.

This is kind of where I stand on him but maybe I'm a bit higher. So far he's shown some nice plays but he still looks like the player with the biggest potential to be mediocre out of Smart, Payton and Exum. All of them aren't great shooters or refined scorers yet but Smart makes up for it with his above average defence and Payton already looks like he can run a team like a pro but Exum's plus is meant to be scoring and he isn't able to do that at an above average level yet. It's still FAR too early and far too small of a sample size to make judgement though really, all three of them could be no more than bench guys or all three could be all stars we just don't know until we see how they develop, they all have big holes they need to fix if they want to be more than average players. One thing I don't get though is some of the hype Exum has gotten regarding his speed or athleticism, from the games I've watched (I'm an aussie I've tried to watch a lot of him) he doesn't look quicker than Payton or Smart and Payton has shown just as many flashy moves to create a lane(even if he does usually end his fancy drives by getting blocked brutally)

[chocolatethunder]

This is kind of where I stand on him but maybe I'm a bit higher. So far he's shown some nice plays but he still looks like the player with the biggest potential to be mediocre out of Smart, Payton and Exum. All of them aren't great shooters or refined scorers yet but Smart makes up for it with his above average defence and Payton already looks like he can run a team like a pro but Exum's plus is meant to be scoring and he isn't able to do that at an above average level yet. It's still FAR too early and far too small of a sample size to make judgement though really, all three of them could be no more than bench guys or all three could be all stars we just don't know until we see how they develop, they all have big holes they need to fix if they want to be more than average players. One thing I don't get though is some of the hype Exum has gotten regarding his speed or athleticism, from the games I've watched (I'm an aussie I've tried to watch a lot of him) he doesn't look quicker than Payton or Smart and Payton has shown just as many flashy moves to create a lane(even if he does usually end his fancy drives by getting blocked brutally)


Well put. Couldn't agree more.:applause:

[outbreak]

Well put. Couldn't agree more.:applause:
I've been agreeing with a lot of your posts lately, it's rare on ish for someone to actually use their brain before posting here like you have been doing :applause:

[Xiao Yao You]

Exum's plus is meant to be scoring and he isn't able to do that at an above average level yet.

It is? He looks like a pass first pg to me. If anything he's going to be too unselfish. He looks like he has the ability to score but rather he has it in his make-up I'm not sure.

[Ariza4three]

How is that impressive?

[sammichoffate]

Exum has a Shaun Livingston floor and a Penny ceiling, he'll stay in the league for a while regardless just because of his physical ability at the PG position.

[chocolatethunder]

Exum has a Shaun Livingston floor and a Penny ceiling, he'll stay in the league for a while regardless just because of his physical ability at the PG position.
What is his physical ability? I'm just curious what you're seeing. He's kinda fast but not a burner, he's not a crazy leaper, he's an ok passer, he's a poor shooter and FT shooter and he's thin and not very strong.

[chocolatethunder]

I've been agreeing with a lot of your posts lately, it's rare on ish for someone to actually use their brain before posting here like you have been doing :applause:
Cheers homie:cheers:

[SugarHill]

What is his physical ability? I'm just curious what you're seeing. He's kinda fast but not a burner, he's not a crazy leaper, he's an ok passer, he's a poor shooter and FT shooter and he's thin and not very strong.

Very quick first step, length and height for the position. That's pretty good foundation, no?

[sammichoffate]

What is his physical ability? I'm just curious what you're seeing. He's kinda fast but not a burner, he's not a crazy leaper, he's an ok passer, he's a poor shooter and FT shooter and he's thin and not very strong.Thing is, he can improve all of that. He has good instincts and a very good wingspan so he can at least be a very solid defender. He's not a crazy leaper, but he has an incredibly fast first step and can finish in traffic. His potential is huge, but it's on him to improve his shooting and strength in the off-season. I thought he would struggle anyways this year because he's finally facing NBA-level competition compared to Australian teams.

[WeGetRing2012]

Manuish

[chocolatethunder]

Thing is, he can improve all of that. He has good instincts and a very good wingspan so he can at least be a very solid defender. He's not a crazy leaper, but he has an incredibly fast first step and can finish in traffic. His potential is huge, but it's on him to improve his shooting and strength in the off-season. I thought he would struggle anyways this year because he's finally facing NBA-level competition compared to Australian teams.
He's pretty quick but he's not amazingly quick like Wall or Westbrook. Maybe he can improve in some ways but he's a guy who's an awful shooter and an awful FT shooter. Being a poor FT shooter doesn't bode well for someone improving their jumper. He's not excellent at anything. Look at smart, who I'm not even a fan of but he's a fantastic defender. Look at Payton, he looks much more comfortable running a team and he has shown he can play both ways. Exum hasn't shown one thing that really sets him apart from the league. He hasn't even shown anything that sets him apart from the other two PGs in his draft. That disn't mean he can't or won't be good but it blows my mind that people talk about his great potential because there are plenty of players who show a hell of a lot more of it than he does.

[sammichoffate]

He's pretty quick but he's not amazingly quick like Wall or Westbrook. Maybe he can improve in some ways but he's a guy who's an awful shooter and an awful FT shooter. Being a poor FT shooter doesn't bode well for someone improving their jumper. He's not excellent at anything. Look at smart, who I'm not even a fan of but he's a fantastic defender. Look at Payton, he looks much more comfortable running a team and he has shown he can play both ways. Exum hasn't shown one thing that really sets him apart from the league. He hasn't even shown anything that sets him apart from the other two PGs in his draft. That disn't mean he can't or won't be good but it blows my mind that people talk about his great potential because there are plenty of players who show a hell of a lot more of it than he does.His shot is something that can be fixed, it's just dependent on his work ethic on whether or not it actually does. People just see a lot of potential in him because he has really good physical tools but doesn't know how to use it just yet. I do think he got way over-hyped though, his PG instincts aren't even close to Penny's yet he was receiving comparisons due to similar builds. In regards to Smart and Payton, I think Exum is struggling more because they both got the green light to do whatever they want while their teams are tanking. Exum has to play behind Alec Burks, which hurts his overall development. Exum's overall game might end up not excelling at everything, but being decent instead. Someone who can score some points, rebound, facilitate, and defend decently ala Shaun Livingston or even MCW.

[chocolatethunder]

His shot is something that can be fixed, it's just dependent on his work ethic on whether or not it actually does. People just see a lot of potential in him because he has really good physical tools but doesn't know how to use it just yet. I do think he got way over-hyped though, his PG instincts aren't even close to Penny's yet he was receiving comparisons due to similar builds. In regards to Smart and Payton, I think Exum is struggling more because they both got the green light to do whatever they want while their teams are tanking. Exum has to play behind Alec Burks, which hurts his overall development. Exum's overall game might end up not excelling at everything, but being decent instead. Someone who can score some points, rebound, facilitate, and defend decently ala Shaun Livingston or even MCW.
I agree that he could end up like that but I am skeptical when people bang on about how someone's shot can be fixed. I only say that because people take that as a given that someone's shooting will improve when more times than not it does not improve. And with him unlike lots of bad shooters, he's a poor FT shooter and has been. Even Rubio who is an 80% FT shooter hasn't improved his jumpshot so it's far from a given. I think that a realistic ceiling for Exum is a solid all around player like you said.

[sammichoffate]

I agree that he could end up like that but I am skeptical when people bang on about how someone's shot can be fixed. I only say that because people take that as a given that someone's shooting will improve when more times than not it does not improve. And with him unlike lots of bad shooters, he's a poor FT shooter and has been. Even Rubio who is an 80% FT shooter hasn't improved his jumpshot so it's far from a given. I think that a realistic ceiling for Exum is a solid all around player like you said.Like I said, it's dependent on his work ethic. Griffin's jumper improved on a yearly basis, so some people take more time than others. I think Rubio's had a bad situation, he tore his ACL early into his career so that might have had an effect on him. It's just speculation though, idk if it's that or it's just Rubio not working hard enough in the off-season.

[Ariza4three]

Problem with Exum is he doesn't excel at anything. Payton excels at passing and defense. Smart excels at defense is a better scorer than both.

[chocolatethunder]

Problem with Exum is he doesn't excel at anything. Payton excels at passing and defense. Smart excels at defense is a better scorer than both.
That's what I'm saying. Thank god there are more people saying this now. Pre draft everyone thought I was being a jerk just because I was being realistic. Same shit happened here when Brandon Jennings dropped 55 his rookie year. If I could use the search function I would bump the thread but I can't Everyone said he was going to be great and I said that he wouldn't be and people called me a hater and all kindsa crazy shit.

[sammichoffate]

That's what I'm saying. Thank god there are more people saying this now. Pre draft everyone thought I was being a jerk just because I was being realistic. Same shit happened here when Brandon Jennings dropped 55 his rookie year. If I could use the search function I would bump the thread but I can't Everyone said he was going to be great and I said that he wouldn't be and people called me a hater and all kindsa crazy shit.Lol, don't let them get to you :lol You made a ton of valid points, Exum has a high bust rate if he doesn't develop properly. He needs to establish his strengths before he can become a solid player, let alone a star. I think he'll be great though, 6'6 PG Projects don't come around too often.

[shmozzle]

Dude has played 19 games at just under 18 minutes a game, without playing college ball and is only 19 and you want him to be excelling at anything?

He excels at being young and inexperienced. He shows flashes of great vision and passing, his length has bothered numerous good guards on defense. He is keeping his turnovers down, and usually looks like he knows what he is doing out there. I think he is deceptively fast, he just glides around the floor. As a jazz fan, he is outperforming my expectations so far, and i am super excited to see him grow in confidence.

[Ariza4three]

Dude has played 19 games at just under 18 minutes a game, without playing college ball and is only 19 and you want him to be excelling at anything?

He excels at being young and inexperienced. He shows flashes of great vision and passing, his length has bothered numerous good guards on defense. He is keeping his turnovers down, and usually looks like he knows what he is doing out there. I think he is deceptively fast, he just glides around the floor. As a jazz fan, he is outperforming my expectations so far, and i am super excited to see him grow in confidence.
Not really hating on him. I just feel like he gets a lot of undeserved praise while Aaron Gordon who's younger and better gets a lot of hate.

[shmozzle]

Not really hating on him. I just feel like he gets a lot of undeserved praise while Aaron Gordon who's younger and better gets a lot of hate.

I haven't read much around here about either of them, nor have i watched any of Gordon this year, so i can't really compare either of them.

But i do like Gordon as a prospect, in the same way i like exum, I think it's silly to compare them to the other rookies such as Payton and smart who were billed as two of the guys who would be ready to make an immediate impact before the draft. Whereas everyone knew guys like exum and gordon were going to struggle. Gordon at least had the benefit of playing the american game before.

[outbreak]

Dude has played 19 games at just under 18 minutes a game, without playing college ball and is only 19 and you want him to be excelling at anything?

He excels at being young and inexperienced. He shows flashes of great vision and passing, his length has bothered numerous good guards on defense. He is keeping his turnovers down, and usually looks like he knows what he is doing out there. I think he is deceptively fast, he just glides around the floor. As a jazz fan, he is outperforming my expectations so far, and i am super excited to see him grow in confidence.

I'm excited for him too, Australia have a great new generation coming through. Most of this isn't meant to hate on him or put him down it's just trying to curb people who are over rating him. Right now he doesn't look any better than Payton or Smart as a prospect. Not saying he can't be better than both of them just that if you had to pick one of the three right now you couldn't really fault any choice.

[chocolatethunder]

Dude has played 19 games at just under 18 minutes a game, without playing college ball and is only 19 and you want him to be excelling at anything?

He excels at being young and inexperienced. He shows flashes of great vision and passing, his length has bothered numerous good guards on defense. He is keeping his turnovers down, and usually looks like he knows what he is doing out there. I think he is deceptively fast, he just glides around the floor. As a jazz fan, he is outperforming my expectations so far, and i am super excited to see him grow in confidence.
Lemme try and clarify that. He doesn't do anything way better than anyone around his age who is playing his position. Lots of players show flashes of lots of things that never pan out and he's certainly not shown any more flashes of anything than anyone else has. I don't mean that he's gonna suck but there's been way too much talk of him being " the best player in this draft". It's just unrealistic and not based in fact that's all. I said that he can be a solid player. I wouldn't be looking for a perennial all star out of him.

[Jailblazers7]

1 difference between Exum and Gordon is that Gordon's lack of position could leave him as an offensive liability unless he can shoot...but Exum lack of ability gives him versatility as a combo guard. I think Exum will be special but I've been biased since day 1 tbh. But I think he plays with great pace, has good vision, decent shot mechanics, etc. I think he had all the tools and the mental make-up.

I have watched a ton of the young PGs tho so I can't compare him to Smart or Payton.

[mrpibb]

Lemme try and clarify that. He doesn't do anything way better than anyone around his age who is playing his position. Lots of players show flashes of lots of things that never pan out and he's certainly not shown any more flashes of anything than anyone else has. I don't mean that he's gonna suck but there's been way too much talk of him being " the best player in this draft". It's just unrealistic and not based in fact that's all. I said that he can be a solid player. I wouldn't be looking for a perennial all star out of him.

Who are similar ages to him? Payton?

Here are Payton's numbers "looking comfortable" running a team:

6.7 PPG on
39% FG
30% 3FG
45% FT (Damn, check out that free throw shooting. Wonder if he'll make it in the league? His shot probably can't be fixed, because he can't make free throws. -chocolatethunder)

3.4 RPG
5.0/2.3 APG/TOPG
1.3 SPG

in 24 minutes.

Oh, by the way, he's 20 and played in college.

Here are Exum's numbers, which are way worse than anyone else similar in age at his position:

4.5 PPG on
37% FG
29% 3FG
59% FT (This seems better than another player similar in age at his position. I wonder who?)

1.5 RPG
2.2/1.0 APG/TOPG
0.4 SPG

in 18 minutes.



EDIT: Oh, and Marcus Smart has played 6 games and has worse stats than Payton. So you just don't like what you see, or what?

[outbreak]

Who are similar ages to him? Payton?

Here are Payton's numbenning a team:

6.7 PPG on
39% FG
30% 3FG
45% FT (Damn, check out that free throw shooting. Wonder if he'll make it in the league? His shot probably can't be fixed, because he can't make free throws. -chocolatethunder)

3.4 RPG
5.0/2.3 APG/TOPG
1.3 SPG

in 24 minutes.

Oh, by the way, he's 20 and played in college.

Here are Exum's numbers, which are way worse than anyone else similar in age at his position:

4.5 PPG on
37% FG
29% 3FG
59% FT (This seems better than another player similar in age at his position. I wonder who?)

1.5 RPG
2.2/1.0 APG/TOPG
0.4 SPG

in 18 minutes.



EDIT: Oh, and Marcus Smart has played 6 games and has worse stats than Payton. So you just don't like what you see, or what?


Try watching the games instead of looking at box scores

[mrpibb]

Try watching the games instead of looking at box scores

Then the games should show you none of these point guards are ready to start yet, because none of their numbers are league average. And if we're going to base it on potential, aren't those flashes of brilliance by Exum exactly what you want?

I don't know what people want out of him. He's 19. He'll need 3-4 years to get to base strength for his position. He was playing high school players in Australia last year. This is exactly the reason I get into arguments with Xiao Yao You every so often because he wants Exum to start, and he's just not better than Trey Burke at this point. I have to hype him or hate him because no one ever wants to just say he's 19 and we have no idea what'll happen.

If any of these point guards don't develop a shot, they won't be starters in the NBA in 4 years. You can't shoot under 40% and 50% from the line as a point guard and stick in this league.

"Well, he'll get better at it."

Well, shit, why can't Dante Exum get better at it? Why can't we judge his passing until he's actually played real competition for a season? Why can't we judge his defense until he's at base strength for his position and isn't playing on the 28th-ranked defensive team?

[Xiao Yao You]

He is better than Burke because he actually plays some D. I'm building around Gobert and Exum right now. Everyone else is available.

[Xiao Yao You]

Not impressed with payton tonight

[Ariza4three]

Not impressed with payton tonight
funny because exum has been worse

[Magic731]

Any realistic basketball watcher knew that Exum wasn't going to set the world on fire from the beginning. No one expected this guy to win ROY or drop huge numbers. It will take him a couple of seasons. It's the flashes of brilliance he's shown which are exciting.

[outbreak]

Then the games should show you none of these point guards are ready to start yet, because none of their numbers are league average. And if we're going to base it on potential, aren't those flashes of brilliance by Exum exactly what you want?

I don't know what people want out of him. He's 19. He'll need 3-4 years to get to base strength for his position. He was playing high school players in Australia last year. This is exactly the reason I get into arguments with Xiao Yao You every so often because he wants Exum to start, and he's just not better than Trey Burke at this point. I have to hype him or hate him because no one ever wants to just say he's 19 and we have no idea what'll happen.

If any of these point guards don't develop a shot, they won't be starters in the NBA in 4 years. You can't shoot under 40% and 50% from the line as a point guard and stick in this league.

"Well, he'll get better at it."

Well, shit, why can't Dante Exum get better at it? Why can't we judge his passing until he's actually played real competition for a season? Why can't we judge his defense until he's at base strength for his position and isn't playing on the 28th-ranked defensive team?

You either haven't read our posts or you fail at reading comprehension. Exum can get better. No one has said he can't. We are just saying that right now he hasn't really shown off any skills that look above average for a rookie and so you can't really say he is a better prospect than Payton or Smart. All three of them have holes in their games and need to improve if they want to be above average.

[Xiao Yao You]

funny because exum has been worse
Ive already been impressed by his game this year though. He'll be a player.

[turnaroundJ]

He is NOT a combo guard. He is a true point, with legit instincts and will definitely be able to run a team. He's shown poise and good ball security. He's made good decisions but of course he's still young and inexperienced.

He is not a scorer right now, nor has he shown flashes of being one. Why? It's not that he doesn't have the tools. He just seems too timid and shy to take shots, and isn't aggressive at all. He's a pass-first point. Maybe this can be re-evaluated in the future when he gets more aggressive.

He's too weak and soft to be an elite defender yet, but I'd have to say that his defensive floor is really good. Regular-sized point guards are going to be terrorized for the next decade.

IMO the quickest player from the draft with that first step.

tldr; I think he's alright based on my eye-test

[Xiao Yao You]

Payton looking better.