Would Eric Garner have died if he wasnt obese.

[nathanjizzle]

would he?
http://i57.tinypic.com/1zce7mq.jpg

[9erempiree]

No.

Fat people's heart can go out anytime and in this instance his heart gave out during a physical altercation. If he was fit, he wouldn't have died.

[KobesFinger]

I read he also had some sort of respiratory issue. But isn't the chokehold illegal in NY anyway?

[Noob Saibot]

no. he could still talk even after being pinned to the ground.

[dkmwise]

One thing I

[gts]

I read he also had some sort of respiratory issue. But isn't the chokehold illegal in NY anyway?Asthma...

[DonDadda59]

No one can say for sure. But what we do know as a fact is that he would not have died if that cop hadn't placed an illegal chokehold on him and then left him to die in the street despite his pleas.

[Akrazotile]

No one can say for sure. But what we do know as a fact is that he would not have died if that cop hadn't placed an illegal chokehold on him and then left him to die in the street despite his pleas.


This is in fact true.

Also true that he would not have died if he hadnt resisted arrest and gave an officer the opportunity to make a bad decision about how to subdue him.


But I guess when you got 6 kids and you hang out on the street all day sellin single cigarettes illegally which youve been arrested 20 times for, and then you resist an arrest, you get everyones sympathy when your dumb decisions get you killed.


Eric Garner: Collectin welfare with six kids, gettin arrested every other day and resisting arrest causing physical confrontation. AMERICAN HERO.

[IGOTGAME]

This is in fact true.

Also true that he would not have died if he hadnt resisted arrest and gave an officer the opportunity to make a bad decision about how to subdue him.


But I guess when you got 6 kids and you hang out on the street all day sellin single cigarettes illegally which youve been arrested 20 times for, and then you resist an arrest, you get everyones sympathy when your dumb decisions get you killed.


Eric Garner: Collectin welfare with six kids, gettin arrested every other day and resisting arrest causing physical confrontation. AMERICAN HERO.

Are you being obtuse or are you really this stupid. I'm pretty sure living at home with your parents gives you a lot of time to ponder these issues. This cant be your real thought process.

[LJJ]

One thing I’ve been wondering about this ‘chokehold’ is that anyone who watches MMA knows that people get chocked completely out all the time and in a minute or two they wake up and seem a little out of it but that’s about it, you never hear of any deaths or long term damage done. So in this case was the chock just applied poorly by the officer, or are fighters just in such great physical shape that their body is able to handle something like this better?

The choke used by mma fighters simply blocks the arteries and veins on the sides of the neck. When done correctly it doesn't even stop someone from breathing because the pressure is applied to the sides, not the windpipe. It's still very dangerous of you maintain it after someone passes out, but it's generally pretty easy to tell when someone passes out so you can release right away.

http://i.imgur.com/vftledY.jpg

Idiot copper here straight up suffocated this man to death by crushing his windpipe.

http://i.imgur.com/9rNGWRQ.jpg

[gts]

Idiot copper here straight up suffocated this man to death by crushing his windpipe.



If he had crushed his windpipe or suffocated him he wouldn't be able to yell I can't breathe over and over again

[LJJ]

If he had crushed his windpipe or suffocated him he wouldn't be able to yell I can't breathe over and over again

What? That's exactly what you can do when you are being suffocated like this, go press on your windpipe right now. You just need a little bit to say something, but it's not enough to breathe.

Anyway, look at the picture. For a blood choke the crook of the elbow needs to be lined up with the windpipe. If it isn't it's a suffocating choke, not a blood choke. Clearly this cop isn't performing a blood choke, he is suffocating him.

[sammichoffate]

This is in fact true.

Also true that he would not have died if he hadnt resisted arrest and gave an officer the opportunity to make a bad decision about how to subdue him.


But I guess when you got 6 kids and you hang out on the street all day sellin single cigarettes illegally which youve been arrested 20 times for, and then you resist an arrest, you get everyones sympathy when your dumb decisions get you killed.


Eric Garner: Collectin welfare with six kids, gettin arrested every other day and resisting arrest causing physical confrontation. AMERICAN HERO.It was shitty for both sides, but the media is going to try and use it to their advantage. It's just my opinion, but I think the officer should have gotten negligent homicide. He didn't try to kill him, but he also was way too excessive with that chokehold. The police will start to become more like the military at this rate, similar situations in the future will be ruled as "police necessity" instead of indictments.

[Dictator]

Also true that he would not have died if he hadnt resisted arrest and gave an officer the opportunity to make a bad decision about how to subdue him.




:oldlol: :lol

[Akrazotile]

Are you being obtuse or are you really this stupid. I'm pretty sure living at home with your parents gives you a lot of time to ponder these issues. This cant be your real thought process.


So... which facts are you disputing? Everything I said was reported about Mr Garner.

[Godzuki]

The choke used by mma fighters simply blocks the arteries and veins on the sides of the neck. When done correctly it doesn't even stop someone from breathing because the pressure is applied to the sides, not the windpipe. It's still very dangerous of you maintain it after someone passes out, but it's generally pretty easy to tell when someone passes out so you can release right away.

http://i.imgur.com/vftledY.jpg

Idiot copper here straight up suffocated this man to death by crushing his windpipe.

http://i.imgur.com/9rNGWRQ.jpg


lol if the way the cop did it was more effective in killing or choking trust me MMA'ers would have figured that out. its legal to choke in any which way in MMA, its just the way they do it is likely much more efficient, not that its safer for the victim :oldlol:

furthermore i'm fairly sure the coroner stated he died of a heart attack that was onset from the choke and lack of oxygen. in other words he was a fat ass whose heart was about to give out any day. any phsycial durress probably would've set that heart attack off, dude probably had diabetes and other health issues also.

bottom line he was a dumbass to resist arrest, and NORMAL people do not act like these fools do in society. sad thing is a lot of mf'ers here pretend its their right to act the fool and disobey authority, which only creates a endless cycle of dumbass mf'ers shooting themselves in the foot then reaching for excuses why its the cops fault. i blame rapper influences, ghetto black culture mentality, just like the stupidity like they can't ever go to the police acting like they're worse than the gangsta's and drug dealers, and then bitch about how the cops never show up or how nobody cares about the hood :roll eyes:

[Akrazotile]

It was shitty for both sides, but the media is going to try and use it to their advantage. It's just my opinion, but I think the officer should have gotten negligent homicide. He didn't try to kill him, but he also was way too excessive with that chokehold. The police will start to become more like the military at this rate, similar situations in the future will be ruled as "police necessity" instead of indictments.


I agree the cop should be punished in some way or another on a technicality, but I would not give him any kind of homicide charge. And I have zero sympathy for Eric Garner.


Look, city cops are basically human garbage men. They have to deal with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. People disrespect them all day thinking its cool, people give them a hard time when they get arrested, yelling at them, spitting on them, and some people even put their life in danger. Cops understandably have a SHORT FUSE. Most people here are the exact same way. When you're really stressed out and not in the mood to be ****ed with, and then someone DOES **** with you, you might lash out. That's how it goes. DONT GIVE COPS A REASON.

Listen, if a cop pulls a woman over for speeding and then proceeds to search her and molest her, THATS what I have a problem with. If a cop is supposed to be standing guard for a store and he's stealing from it, THATS what I have a problem with. If a cop plants evidence to screw over an innocent person, THATS what I have a problem with.

Criminals charging at cops or smacking their hands away during an arrest, they're on their own. They wanna be difficult with guys who are trying to do their job and not in the mood for shit, I'm not jumpin in to white knight for that. And let's be clear, NOBODY is gonna miss Eric Garner. Technically the cops conduct should be reprimanded to reiterate cops cannot do that, but the world is DEFINITELY better off without that piece of shit bum that got darwin'd. I'm so sorry if my saying so offends igotgame or rasheed, the al and jessie's of this board becuase the guy is black. These guys only jump to anyones defense ever when its a black guy who started trouble. I'm not some whiney bitchmade loser liberal emo that lets race hustlers pluck my emotions and intimidate me. So as far as the indictment goes, hey, from the info I have it is surprising, but it wasnt my decision to make. As far as Garner? GOOD RIDDANCE.

[Lakers Legend#32]

New York's right wing congressional representative is pushing this BS that his obesity was the result of his death. Like being choked had nothing to do with this.

[Akrazotile]

New York's right wing congressional representative is pushing this BS that his obesity was the result of his death. Like being choked had nothing to do with this.


Obesity easily could have been a contributing factor as to why the choke killed him when it may not have killed most people in that situation.

It doesn't excuse the choke which is explicitly prohibited, so it doesn't really matter anyway.

[nathanjizzle]

Ive been headlocked before and i didnt die

[gts]

New York's right wing congressional representative is pushing this BS that his obesity was the result of his death. Like being choked had nothing to do with this.lets be honest... look at that man, he's a effing slob... then look at the list of health problems he had... it wasn't going to take much to put him over the edge... the struggle even without a chokehold could of kill him...

the man was one Dennys Grand Slam away from stroking out

I'm not saying the chokehold didn't play a major part in his death but still..

[IGOTGAME]

lets be honest... look at that man, he's a effing slob... then look at the list of health problems he had... it wasn't going to take much to put him over the edge... the struggle even without a chokehold could of kill him...

the man was one Dennys Grand Slam away from stroking out

I'm not saying the chokehold didn't play a major part in his death but still..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

[Akrazotile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull


Hey an eggshell skull, that's a serious genetic condition :confusedshrug: .


Being a fat **** and resisting arrest is a right exercised of free will. A civil right the ACLU fights tooth and nail for....

[Velocirap31]

The cop crushed his windpipe. Any of us would have died and I would have reacted the same way as the victim. He did nothing wrong and the police never said he was under arrest.

[gts]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull


I'm pretty sure law enforcement has immunity from that particular law but he family might use that to sue the police department

nice try though.. haven't seen that mentioned in some time

[IGOTGAME]

I'm pretty sure law enforcement has immunity from that particular law but he family might use that to sue the police department

nice try though.. haven't seen that mentioned in some time

they dont. its not a law but a principle.

[Akrazotile]

they dont. its not a law but a principle.


How come you only care about the rarest form of violence - white on black?

You dont care if whites are violent to each other or if blacks are violent to anyone. You only only only CARE during the rare time when a black guy gets himself into some kind of trouble and dies at the hands of a white authority figure.


Why? You are RACIST.

[gts]

they dont. its not a law but a principle.

Qualified immunity is a doctrine in U.S. federal law that arises in cases brought against state officials under 42 U.S.C Section 1983 and against federal officials under Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents, 403 U.S. 388 (1971).

Qualified immunity, when applicable, shields government officials from liability for the violation of an individual's federal constitutional rights[contradictory]. This grant of immunity is available to state or federal employees performing discretionary functions where their actions, even if later found to be unlawful, did not violate "clearly established law."

[CelticBaller]

**** that cop, dude should be in jail

[Rodmantheman]

**** that cop, dude should be in jail

:applause:

[IGOTGAME]

Qualified immunity is a doctrine in U.S. federal law that arises in cases brought against state officials under 42 U.S.C Section 1983 and against federal officials under Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents, 403 U.S. 388 (1971).

Qualified immunity, when applicable, shields government officials from liability for the violation of an individual's federal constitutional rights[contradictory]. This grant of immunity is available to state or federal employees performing discretionary functions where their actions, even if later found to be unlawful, did not violate "clearly established law."

Has nothing to do with my post. My post is just a simple principle of causation. Which is what must be proven in any homicide investigation.

[Dresta]

Homicide? You know the biggest charge you could even hope to push for is manslaughter?

It clearly isn't homicide smh..

[sweggeh]

The man was choked to death, simple as that. I can only hope and pray something like this happens to family members of the likes of Akrazotile and Godzuki so they can know how it feels and stop talking shit like bad boys on a ****in forum.

[chazzy]

It doesn't matter what his underlying condition was.

[Godzuki]

The man was choked to death, simple as that. I can only hope and pray something like this happens to family members of the likes of Akrazotile and Godzuki so they can know how it feels and stop talking shit like bad boys on a ****in forum.


come meet me then lil fgt :rolleyes: always trips me out when mf'ers say shit like this when u know they weak as fukk :oldlol:

[Godzuki]

only if white people got a free riot, looting, and blaming all black people when OJ got a freebie murdering a white woman. never seen someone so obviously guilty who gets off based on the black community supporting their own playing the race card.

also funny how white people didn't riot over that, since obviously we of all colors behave the same in this country :oldlol:

[sportsfan76]

No.

Fat people's heart can go out anytime and in this instance his heart gave out during a physical altercation. If he was fit, he wouldn't have died.


Wrong, he died because they sat on his head while being choked

[sportsfan76]

This is in fact true.

Also true that he would not have died if he hadnt resisted arrest and gave an officer the opportunity to make a bad decision about how to subdue him.


But I guess when you got 6 kids and you hang out on the street all day sellin single cigarettes illegally which youve been arrested 20 times for, and then you resist an arrest, you get everyones sympathy when your dumb decisions get you killed.


Eric Garner: Collectin welfare with six kids, gettin arrested every other day and resisting arrest causing physical confrontation. AMERICAN HERO.


Do you really believed what you just said?

[stalkerforlife]

Why didn't they let him go when he said he couldn't breathe? Dudes need to get fired, ASAP.

[gts]

Homicide? You know the biggest charge you could even hope to push for is manslaughter?

It clearly isn't homicide smh..ermmm homicide is dying at the hands of another human.... even self defense is a form of homicide

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

You're thinking of murder

Garners death has already been ruled a homocide

[nathanjizzle]

ermmm homicide is dying at the hands of another human.... even self defense is a form of homicide

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

You're thinking of murder

Garners death has already been ruled a homocide

homicide is an intent to cause enough injury that it results in death. I think most can agree the cop wasnt trying to kill garner. So at best its manslaughter.

[sweggeh]

come meet me then lil fgt :rolleyes: always trips me out when mf'ers say shit like this when u know they weak as fukk :oldlol:

Uh oh, Internet bad boy alert! Okay, lets fight then. How you wanna do it? Over Skype, yeah? Webcam? Should I send you audio of me punching a wall or what?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[YouGotServed]

come meet me then lil fgt :rolleyes: always trips me out when mf'ers say shit like this when u know they weak as fukk :oldlol:

http://i.imgur.com/fufNKCI.gif

[nathanjizzle]

i got my money on godzuki

[sweggeh]

Godzuki is one of the strongest and most vicious keyboard warriors this world has ever witnessed.

[MavsSuperFan]

i got my money on godzuki
Honestly godzuki strikes me as a guy that would have a gun on him at all times. So probably would win, via gunshot

IMO Garner's poor cardiovascular health contributed greatly towards his death.

- I think Garner's death is extremely tragic. Since it seems in these situations the whole life histories of the dead guy is vetted, and garner's worst offenses seem to be petty crimes like selling loose cigarettes (which imo is not even really a crime, basically just a fine would suffice). I feel comfortable assuming Garner was overall a really good person.

- I dont think the cop used excessive force. This is my opinion, I am not saying I am right.

- I dont think we as citizens have a right to resist arrest. If a police officers is trying to handcuff you you should submit and comply. If you feel an injustice has been done get the arresting officer's badge number and pursue legal remedies later. Sue the cop, Sue the state.

- Cops to me are tools of the state. submitting to them is in essence submitting/complying with the state. All laws of the US are publicly available and drafted and executed/enforced by either democratically elected politicians or those appointed by democratically elected politicians. In the US their are 4 groups of people.

1. citizens - who can vote to affect laws and choose law makers. Thus IMO its fair for them to have to obey the state.
2. legal residents (who cant vote) - they are basically guests and have chosen to be here with the permission of the state. Thus need to obey the state.
3. People here illegally - Arguably these people have no right to be in the country and must definitely should obey the officers of the state.
4 tourists - people who are visiting. If you are visiting someones homes you should respect there house rules.

- garner was a very large man. How were cops supposed to arrest him? Do large men have an exemption to follow the commands of police? its tragic Garner died, but its not like the cops pulled out guns and shot him to death or bludgeoned him to death with their batons. I dont think the level of force the cops used to arrest Garner was excessive.

The result obviously was, but I honestly think that has a lot to do with Garner's cardiovascular health.

[Dictator]

Godzuki is one of the strongest and most vicious keyboard warriors this world has ever witnessed.


:oldlol: :oldlol:

[gts]

http://linkis.com/po.st/fAk8u

[MavsSuperFan]

http://linkis.com/po.st/fAk8u
wow i did not know that

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/scene2.jpg

[QUOTE]Black female Police sergeant Kizzy Adoni supervised the fatal arrest and on-scene medical treatment of Eric Garner. She testified

[Pointguard]

Honestly godzuki strikes me as a guy that would have a gun on him at all times. So probably would win, via gunshot.
Yeah, but he also impresses you as a guy that would run into your fist, and then turn to everybody and say, "did you see that, did you see that." He's hypersensitive about resisting, all Sweggah would have to say is "you under arrest." Dude's automatic pilot would shut down and he would start submitting.

[Pointguard]

- I dont think we as citizens have a right to resist arrest. If a police officers is trying to handcuff you you should submit and comply. If you feel an injustice has been done get the arresting officer's badge number and pursue legal remedies later. Sue the cop, Sue the state.

- Cops to me are tools of the state. submitting to them is in essence submitting/complying with the state. All laws of the US are publicly available and drafted and executed/enforced by either democratically elected politicians or those appointed by democratically elected politicians. In the US their are 4 groups of people.

- garner was a very large man. How were cops supposed to arrest him? Do large men have an exemption to follow the commands of police? its tragic Garner died, but its not like the cops pulled out guns and shot him to death or bludgeoned him to death with their batons. I dont think the level of force the cops used to arrest Garner was excessive.

The result obviously was, but I honestly think that has a lot to do with Garner's cardiovascular health.

The whole nation saw the video and is in uproar. Think you might have missed something?

1) The cop was obviously harassing Eric. He said he had a bag, which is his only evidence in the matter and obviously can't make up a story as to where it was. Nor has he ever offered one.

2) Eric had maybe one second before violence was applied, over what could be at best a 34 dollar exchange of cigarettes but more than likely just pure harassment.

3) The officer was a promoted officer, experienced enough to handle a situation of five cops on one guy. But he went to a choke hold and sustained it well after subduing him.

4) He says he can't breathe 11 times after he is subdued. Remind you they have no evidence of wrong doing. This is on the principle of just harassing him. And you are saying this isn't excessive.

5) There is obviously a lack of follow up to his well being.

The narrative is crazy. I wrote at least three times that here in NY they had stop and frisk of minorities registered at over 600,000 times in NYC in 2011 which actually means there were over a million real stops. About 3,000 stops a day to random people which rarely seemed to be white people that make up over 40% of the population. A couple of individuals were hit up 30 times without probable cause. Just last year NYC had to claims on the police department for well over 200 million dollars for their unprofessional-ism. I have sources. You can't trust a system like that. Its a police state gone wild.

While it was a while back a guy had a baton stuck up his rectum. Garner probably knew his arresting officer stripped searched two guys in broad daylight and was slapping their genitals. You think its easy to trust a guy like that and the system he works with when he knows they are just harassing him???

[MavsSuperFan]

The whole nation saw the video and is in uproar. Think you might have missed something?

1) The cop was obviously harassing Eric. He said he had a bag, which is his only evidence in the matter and obviously can't make up a story as to where it was. Nor has he ever offered one.

2) Eric had maybe one second before violence was applied, over what could be at best a 34 dollar exchange of cigarettes but more than likely just pure harassment.

3) The officer was a promoted officer, experienced enough to handle a situation of five cops on one guy. But he went to a choke hold and sustained it well after subduing him.

4) He says he can't breathe 11 times after he is subdued. Remind you they have no evidence of wrong doing. This is on the principle of just harassing him. And you are saying this isn't excessive.

5) There is obviously a lack of follow up to his well being.

The narrative is crazy. I wrote at least three times that here in NY they had stop and frisk of minorities registered at over 600,000 times in NYC in 2011 which actually means there were over a million real stops. About 3,000 stops a day to random people which rarely seemed to be white people that make up over 40% of the population. A couple of individuals were hit up 30 times without probable cause. Just last year NYC had to claims on the police department for well over 200 million dollars for their unprofessional-ism. I have sources. You can't trust a system like that. Its a police state gone wild.

While it was a while back a guy had a baton stuck up his rectum. Garner probably knew his arresting officer stripped searched two guys in broad daylight and was slapping their genitals. You think its easy to trust a guy like that and the system he works with when he knows they are just harassing him???

The whole nation saw the video and is in uproar. Think you might have missed something?

I saw the video, so did the grand jury. To me personally the video was tragic, but I dont think you can throw that cop in jail for that. I do think garner's family should be awarded a huge wrongful death settlement. I will acknowledge that I am very pro law enforcement and pro government (eg. i believe in government's role in lots of facets of society), that is my basis.

Eric Garner did not deserve to die. Based on what I know he seems like overall a good decent person. His crimes were very petty crimes. Stuff like unlicensed sell of loose cigarettes. stuff that should have result in fines.

As I have discussed previously, I strongly believe we as citizens have to comply with the commands of law enforcement. Cops are tools of the state. The execute laws that are written/executed by politicians either democratically elected or appointed by a democratically elected politician. I think cops need the right to take down physically large males. Based on my viewing of the tape Garner resisted arrest and the cops werent physically strong enough to arrest him without taking him down.

If you feel the cops have mistreated you then you pursue legal remedies after you are arrested. File a complaint, get his badge number, sue the cop, sue the state.

Based on my viewing of the video tape I dont think the cops used lethal force. Obviously garner died which was a lethal result. But I dont think techniques used on him would kill in the vast majority of instances. it sucks saying this, but in my opinion Garner's cardiovascular health contributed to his death.

its like flagrant fouls, sometimes you foul a guy in a perfectly normal way but he falls in a way that makes it look much worse and it does damage to him. (its not the best analogy given the seriousness of the case, but I couldnt come up with a better way to express that IMO the cops took down Garner in a way that wouldnt kill most people)

I do think garner's family is owed a huge civil settlement


1) The cop was obviously harassing Eric. He said he had a bag, which is his only evidence in the matter and obviously can't make up a story as to where it was. Nor has he ever offered one.

Maybe the cop was harassing Garner. But I dont think physically resisting arrest is ok. IMO you pursue it with lawsuits and file compliants. Maybe alert local media, the ACLU, pro bono lawyers, etc. I will never side with anyone resisting arrest period.


4) He says he can't breathe 11 times after he is subdued. Remind you they have no evidence of wrong doing. This is on the principle of just harassing him. And you are saying this isn't excessive.

the result is obviously excessive and tragic as Garner died. But I watch that video, and if you dont let cops take down suspects that resist arrest, how are cops supposed to arrest large physically strong people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OxM9pWGsaQ
here is the actual video of the takedown/choke
the physical portion starts at 1:16

-IMO Garner resists arrest. He prevents the cops from placing him in hand cuffs

at about 1:21 the cop in green puts garner into the choke and the rest of the cops wrestle garner to the floor. The choke is released at about 1:35 of the video

I didnt think 1:21 - 1:35 was excessive or lethal force. the result obviously was, but if you dont let cops do that, how do they arrest large people? Once a person is placed face down on the ground they are far easier to cuff.

from about 1:35 onward the cops use their body weight to hold garner down and force him into hand cuffs. he is saying he cant breath at this point.

I watched the video, I dont think most people would have died from that. I think garner's cardiovascular health contributed significantly to his death.


While it was a while back a guy had a baton stuck up his rectum. Garner probably knew his arresting officer stripped searched two guys in broad daylight and was slapping their genitals. You think its easy to trust a guy like that and the system he works with when he knows they are just harassing him???

Do you have a link for the bolded claim?
also if something that extreme happened down at the station the civil lawsuit would be massive. I am sorry i dont buy that happens a lot.


The narrative is crazy. I wrote at least three times that here in NY they had stop and frisk of minorities registered at over 600,000 times in NYC in 2011 which actually means there were over a million real stops. About 3,000 stops a day to random people which rarely seemed to be white people that make up over 40% of the population. A couple of individuals were hit up 30 times without probable cause. Just last year NYC had to claims on the police department for well over 200 million dollars for their unprofessional-ism. I have sources. You can't trust a system like that. Its a police state gone wild.

There are ways to fight stuff like that. Vote in elections for candidates that promise to stop stuff like that, legal lawsuits, etc.

Physical resistances is futile against the state. you will never beat the state by overpowering them physically.


2) Eric had maybe one second before violence was applied, over what could be at best a 34 dollar exchange of cigarettes but more than likely just pure harassment.

maybe the cops weren't justified in arresting him. I dont think physical resistance against being arrested by cops is ever going to be effective.
You comply, and file law suits and complaints.

[MavsSuperFan]

Shit cop covering for other shit cops??? Shocking
One of the major criticisms in this case was that white officers were bullying Garner because of racial reasons.

If the officer in charge of the arrest was a black women, it somewhat blunts that narrative imo.

[Dictator]

I saw the video, so did the grand jury. To me personally the video was tragic, but I dont think you can throw that cop in jail for that. I do think garner's family should be awarded a huge wrongful death settlement. I will acknowledge that I am very pro law enforcement and pro government (eg. i believe in government's role in lots of facets of society), that is my basis.

Eric Garner did not deserve to die. Based on what I know he seems like overall a good decent person. His crimes were very petty crimes. Stuff like unlicensed sell of loose cigarettes. stuff that should have result in fines.

As I have discussed previously, I strongly believe we as citizens have to comply with the commands of law enforcement. Cops are tools of the state. The execute laws that are written/executed by politicians either democratically elected or appointed by a democratically elected politician. I think cops need the right to take down physically large males. Based on my viewing of the tape Garner resisted arrest and the cops werent physically strong enough to arrest him without taking him down.

If you feel the cops have mistreated you then you pursue legal remedies after you are arrested. File a complaint, get his badge number, sue the cop, sue the state.

Based on my viewing of the video tape I dont think the cops used lethal force. Obviously garner died which was a lethal result. But I dont think techniques used on him would kill in the vast majority of instances. it sucks saying this, but in my opinion Garner's cardiovascular health contributed to his death.

its like flagrant fouls, sometimes you foul a guy in a perfectly normal way but he falls in a way that makes it look much worse and it does damage to him. (its not the best analogy given the seriousness of the case, but I couldnt come up with a better way to express that IMO the cops took down Garner in a way that wouldnt kill most people)

I do think garner's family is owed a huge civil settlement



Maybe the cop was harassing Garner. But I dont think physically resisting arrest is ok. IMO you pursue it with lawsuits and file compliants. Maybe alert local media, the ACLU, pro bono lawyers, etc. I will never side with anyone resisting arrest period.



the result is obviously excessive and tragic as Garner died. But I watch that video, and if you dont let cops take down suspects that resist arrest, how are cops supposed to arrest large physically strong people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OxM9pWGsaQ
here is the actual video of the takedown/choke
the physical portion starts at 1:16

-IMO Garner resists arrest. He prevents the cops from placing him in hand cuffs

at about 1:21 the cop in green puts garner into the choke and the rest of the cops wrestle garner to the floor. The choke is released at about 1:35 of the video

I didnt think 1:21 - 1:35 was excessive or lethal force. the result obviously was, but if you dont let cops do that, how do they arrest large people? Once a person is placed face down on the ground they are far easier to cuff.

from about 1:35 onward the cops use their body weight to hold garner down and force him into hand cuffs. he is saying he cant breath at this point.

I watched the video, I dont think most people would have died from that. I think garner's cardiovascular health contributed significantly to his death.




Medical Examiners reported his death as "Homicide by Chokehold and Compression of the Chest".

Some you guys really have a flawed view of logic.

If I can't swim but someone pushes me over into a pool, yes my inability to swim helped cause me to drown, but ultimately I would've never been in the situation in the first place without someone elses action.

[PHX_Phan]

Based on my viewing of the video tape I dont think the cops used lethal force. Obviously garner died which was a lethal result. But I dont think techniques used on him would kill in the vast majority of instances. it sucks saying this, but in my opinion Garner's cardiovascular health contributed to his death.

Don't you think the cops should have taken this into consideration before suffocating him through the process in how they subdued him? Especially if he is telling them he can't breathe :facepalm

This isn't the first time this has happened where police end up suffocating an overweight person. I've seen a few videos of different cases, but this is the only one I could find with the Garner case blowing up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V9FV3G3noE

It's not really hard to figure that 5+ grown men piling on top of someone who is in poor physical shape could prevent them from breathing.

[Pointguard]

Do you have a link for the bolded claim?
also if something that extreme happened down at the station the civil lawsuit would be massive. I am sorry i dont buy that happens a lot.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/05/new-york-eric-garner-death/19940899/

"Darren Collins and Tommy Rice alleged in a 2013 federal court lawsuit that Pantaleo and at least four other officers subjected them to "humiliating and unlawful strip searches in public view" after handcuffing them during a March 2012 arrest on Staten Island.

The court complaint charged that the cops, searching for illegal drugs, "pulled down the plaintiffs' pants and underwear, and touched and searched their genital areas"

"Pantaleo and three of the officers repeated the searches after they took the suspects to Staten Island's 120th police precinct, the complaint alleged.

His federal lawsuit against the cops maintained that Walker "was committing no crime at that time and was not acting in a suspicious manner."

This establishes that he's a bully, will lie to harass people and abuse his power.


maybe the cops weren't justified in arresting him. I dont think physical resistance against being arrested by cops is ever going to be effective.
You comply, and file law suits and complaints. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-officer-daniel-pantaleo-faces-wrongful-arrest-lawsuits-article-1.2035138

He falsely arrested these kids shortly after killing Eric Garner. And he misrepresented the details to do it.
"[I]Pantaleo . . . misrepresented facts in the police reports and other documents that the plaintiff(s) had committed offenses when in fact this was not true,

[Nanners]

blaming eric garners death on his weight is like blaming a rape victim because they were dressed too provocatively

[Pointguard]

One of the major criticisms in this case was that white officers were bullying Garner because of racial reasons.

If the officer in charge of the arrest was a black women, it somewhat blunts that narrative imo.

Curious, did you see that officer look to anybody? She was in charge of her cops and not the detectives, who act independently and bring cases to the DA. The detectives who initiated the violence, are not obliged to listen to her and its very obvious they aren't pretending to. The cops in uniform would have stopped, but they are irrelevant.

[dude77]

those detectives are useless punks .. they look like bullies, nothing more .. dude in the black shirt looks like a slight framed nerd trying to compensate with his badge and gay tattoos .. 99 is the one that really irks me the most .. dude needs to be reprimanded .. lose his job at the very least .. some of these cops do this type of shit to anyone .. it's not just blacks

[Bandito]

blaming eric garners death on his weight is like blaming a rape victim because they were dressed too provocatively
Yes because dying of a heart provoked by fat is the same as being provoked by a small skirt.

[ArbitraryWater]

If he had crushed his windpipe or suffocated him he wouldn't be able to yell I can't breathe over and over again

:oldlol: :facepalm

[PHX_Phan]

Anyway you want to slice it up, dude's weight was just part of the reason why he was unable to breathe. He was killed from being choked out and suffocated by cops.

He wasn't in great shape, but I'm not going to believe dude was a slight breeze away from croaking out and the poor cops were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Too many of them got too physical with someone they shouldn't have and they killed him. This should be an open shut case of negligent homicide.

[Dresta]

The real question is why anyone thinks sending a half dozen police after a guy selling cigarettes is a good idea - they are creating problems while serving no useful purpose. NYC police likely spend more of their time enforcing the petty regulations of Bloomberg than they do tackling crime that is actually damaging and destructive.


blaming eric garners death on his weight is like blaming a rape victim because they were dressed too provocatively
:lol

You're the king of fallacious analogies. That really is nothing like this, as wearing provocative clothes doesn't increase the chances of sudden death like being grossly obese does. The officer also clearly didn't intend to kill, like a rapist intends to rape, another important distinction you ignore. A more apt comparison would be you getting in a fight with a fat guy over some cigarettes, and him dying as a result of a normal blow - would you be happy to face a murder charge, even a manslaughter charge?

[Akrazotile]

those detectives are useless punks .. they look like bullies, nothing more .. dude in the black shirt looks like a slight framed nerd trying to compensate with his badge and gay tattoos .. 99 is the one that really irks me the most .. dude needs to be reprimanded .. lose his job at the very least .. some of these cops do this type of shit to anyone .. it's not just blacks


I agree, some cops out there are just straight meatheads with an authority complex. The thing is in this case both guys made a mistake so its hard for me to muster a lot of sympathy for garner. Hes been arrested over 30 times, including things like assault, grand larceny, and false impersonment. This is a guy with six kids who spends his time on the street corner selling loose cigarettes and undoubtedly collecting welfare. Hes a ****ing bum. He got confronted by police again and when they attempted to detain him he refused. Some cop tried to play hero and take the guy down, and it ended with an accidental death. Was this cop a meat head? Maybe. A fake tough guy and a wannabe? Maybe. Was he trying to play hero? Maybe. But if you are being arrested practically every ****ing week like garner was, you are just increasing the odds that something bad will happen.

Maybe Garner wouldnt be just chillin on the corner if NY didnt give out oodles of welfare, if people persistently loitering were given harsher sentences, if we didnt have a social concept of letting individuals do ANYTHING they want without expectation of consequences and then when they encounter them, just blaming the system, the man, people with money, people with authority, people with white skin, or whichever big bad goliath its easy to blame.


At the end of the day we need cops, and not everyone is lining up to do it, so you have to be careful about what kind of mistakes you want to remove them for. The guy should undoutedly be suspended without pay for a period of time for violating the chokehold prohibition. But just like when guys are suspended in other careers, you take past history of everyone involved into account. Garner has been putting himself in position for confrontation with cops over and over and over again. So I wouldnt be willing to permanently remove a cop from the force just cause garner finally pushed his luck once too often. If this had happened to someone without such an extensive history of police confrontation and resisting arrest, Id probably feel differently.

[dude77]

I agree, some cops out there are just straight meatheads with an authority complex. The thing is in this case both guys made a mistake so its hard for me to muster a lot of sympathy for garner. Hes been arrested over 30 times, including things like assault, grand larceny, and false impersonment. This is a guy with six kids who spends his time on the street corner selling loose cigarettes and undoubtedly collecting welfare. Hes a ****ing bum. He got confronted by police again and when they attempted to detain him he refused. Some cop tried to play hero and take the guy down, and it ended with an accidental death. Was this cop a meat head? Maybe. A fake tough guy and a wannabe? Maybe. Was he trying to play hero? Maybe. But if you are being arrested practically every ****ing week like garner was, you are just increasing the odds that something bad will happen.

Maybe Garner wouldnt be just chillin on the corner if NY didnt give out oodles of welfare, if people persistently loitering were given harsher sentences, if we didnt have a social concept of letting individuals do ANYTHING they want without expectation of consequences and then when they encounter them, just blaming the system, the man, people with money, people with authority, people with white skin, or whichever big bad goliath its easy to blame.


At the end of the day we need cops, and not everyone is lining up to do it, so you have to be careful about what kind of mistakes you want to remove them for. The guy should undoutedly be suspended without pay for a period of time for violating the chokehold prohibition. But just like when guys are suspended in other careers, you take past history of everyone involved into account. Garner has been putting himself in position for confrontation with cops over and over and over again. So I wouldnt be willing to permanently remove a cop from the force just cause garner finally pushed his luck once too often. If this had happened to someone without such an extensive history of police confrontation and resisting arrest, Id probably feel differently.

well said on that second paragraph .. and so it turns out garner was yet another degenerate criminal .. I didn't know he had been arrested 30 times .. and one of them for false imprisonment .. 30 times .. who knows what else he's done ..

I thought he was just a good, hard working father of 6 just trying to put food on the table who was being 'harrassed' by evil racist cops .. or so this is what cnn told me .. cnn got me on this one .. the liberal media are snakes ... sneaky little snakes .. I should've known better .. you never take the news at face value ..

I'm shocked that blacks are out protesting over yet another criminal degenerate .. are there any actual good folks y'all take up a cause for or is it only scumbag delinquents ?

[Akrazotile]

well said on that second paragraph .. and so it turns out garner was yet another degenerate criminal .. I didn't know he had been arrested 30 times .. and one of them for false imprisonment .. 30 times .. who knows what else he's done ..

I thought he was just a good, hard working father of 6 just trying to put food on the table lol .. or so this is what cnn told me .. cnn got me on this one .. the liberal media are snakes ... sneaky little snakes .. I should've known better .. you never take the news at face value ..

I'm shocked that blacks are out protesting over yet another criminal degenerate .. are there any actual good folks y'all take up a cause for or is it only scumbag delinquents ?


One important distinction just to clear up is it was false impersonment, not false imprisonment, basically meaning he got pulled over by police and he gave them phony info (since he was drivng without a license).

Its one thing to be doing that shit at 20. When youre 45 with six kids and youre still getting arrested for stupid shit every month, youre a ****ing loser. He was literally out on bail with three different charges pending WHEN this happened.


Hes a ****ing bum and he should have been sterilized and deported to a desolate island years ago.

[Pointguard]

I agree, some cops out there are just straight meatheads with an authority complex. The thing is in this case both guys made a mistake so its hard for me to muster a lot of sympathy for garner. Hes been arrested over 30 times, including things like assault, grand larceny, and false impersonment. This is a guy with six kids who spends his time on the street corner selling loose cigarettes and undoubtedly collecting welfare. Hes a ****ing bum. He got confronted by police again and when they attempted to detain him he refused. Some cop tried to play hero and take the guy down, and it ended with an accidental death. Was this cop a meat head? Maybe. A fake tough guy and a wannabe? Maybe. Was he trying to play hero? Maybe. But if you are being arrested practically every ****ing week like garner was, you are just increasing the odds that something bad will happen.
A person who tries as hard as you do to blame a victim, is always victim of their own hate. Which might have been Eric's problem - as it immobilizes a person from participating in society the regular way. But he will at least go down fighting and taking chances to get money. You on the other hand voluteer your free time to hate and justify death of victims. He wasn't happy and you are very similar. He's more your brother than the guy who killed him.


Maybe Garner wouldnt be just chillin on the corner if NY didnt give out oodles of welfare,
Spending 212 million dollars for the lack of tack from police officers is a bigger problem than Welfare is by a long shot.


So I wouldnt be willing to permanently remove a cop from the force just cause garner finally pushed his luck once too often. If this had happened to someone without such an extensive history of police confrontation and resisting arrest, Id probably feel differently.
You are not fooling anyone.