Kobe is Mismatch for Lebron 1-on-1: Video

[3ball]

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Here's a beautiful video of 1-on-1 plays between Kobe and Lebron:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABKg2azkp0



Not surprising that Kobe was a big mismatch for Lebron: too much quickness and moves for a forward to handle.

This is similar to when Jordan was a big mismatch for taller defenders like Dennis Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858), Grant Hill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322), Reggie Lewis (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19), Clyde Drexler (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8), Richard Dumas (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30), Penny Hardaway (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24), and Dominique Wilkins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25).

Ultimately, Jordan and Kobe were a bigger mismatch versus ALL defenders, because they destroyed all the guards, and they were too quick with too many moves for forwards like Dennis Rodman, Lebron, Dominique, Grant Hill, Boris Diaw or Kawhi Leonard.

Also, when forwards defend guards, it messes up the rotations and matchups for the rest of the team - this is an added benefit to having a SG that can destroy the other SG and force a switch.
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[red1]

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Here's a beautiful video of 1-on-1 plays between Kobe and Lebron:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABKg2azkp0



Not surprising that Kobe was a big mismatch for Lebron: too much quickness and moves for a forward to handle.

This is similar to when Jordan was a big mismatch for taller defenders like Dennis Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858), Grant Hill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322), Richard Dumas (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30), Clyde Drexler (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8), Reggie Lewis (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19), Penny Hardaway (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24), and Dominique Wilkins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25).

Ultimately, Jordan and Kobe were a bigger mismatch versus ALL defenders, because they destroyed all the guards, and they were too quick and had too many moves for forwards like Dennis Rodman, Lebron, Dominique, Grant Hill, Boris Diaw or Kawhi Leonard.

Also, when forwards defend guards, it messes up the rotations and matchups for the rest of the team - this is an added benefit to having a SG that can destroy the other SG and force a switch.
impressive. you managed to write two full sentences before bringing up jordan this time

[SouBeachTalents]

impressive. you managed to write two full sentences before bringing up jordan this time

:roll:

[STATUTORY]

:roll: LEBRON　IN　HIS　ATHLETIC PRIME forced to posting up kobe from half court cause of his lack of handles

[Prometheus]

Hmm seems like he very seldom was able to actually beat LeBron off the dribble, and most of those are just very well-defended jumpers that he made.

[G0ATbe]

OP trying so hard to find ways to group Jordan in with the GOAT:facepalm .

[Prometheus]

Hmm seems like he very seldom was able to actually beat LeBron off the dribble, and most of those are just very well-defended jumpers that he made.

I watched the entire video, and it's just Kobe hitting very well-defended jumpers. I like Kobe, so I'm kind of disappointed to see that even the most biased video footage (of which this is clearly an extreme example) only has Kobe beating LeBron off the dribble a small handful of times in their entire careers playing against each other.

[3ball]

I watched the entire video


you couldn't have watched the whole video, because kobe takes lebron to the rack a ton (1:33, 3:25, 3:51, 3:56, 4:50, 6:08, 7:24, 7:50) and posts him up all through the video as if lebron is the smaller player.

oh, and he dunks on him twice too - at the 9:16 mark and again at the 11:05 mark.

you guys and your lebron-love.. literally causes posters to lie itt.

also, the fact that lebron can't defend kobe's pull-up is the case in point - lebron has to give kobe extra room to prevent getting juked by one of kobe's infinite moves, and to prevent the blow-bys that happened at 1:33, 3:25, 3:51, 3:56, 4:50, 6:08, 7:24, and 7:50.
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[VengefulAngel]

Reason is simple: LeBron is a smart defender and the Cavaliers since the Mike Brown era (05-10) have always been a good defensive teams.

Lebron actually is a really good team defender. Although I just hate the fact that he has such lazy tendencies on that side of the ball, e.g. not boxing out, not closing out with a hand up and cherry picking.

[PsychoBe]

I watched the entire video, and it's just Kobe hitting very well-defended jumpers. I like Kobe, so I'm kind of disappointed to see that even the most biased video footage (of which this is clearly an extreme example) only has Kobe beating LeBron off the dribble a small handful of times in their entire careers playing against each other.

no you didn't.

[Fire Colangelo]

A highlight video.

All your arguments come from highlight videos, the same highlight videos that can make any player look good.

[3ball]

no you didn't.


Prometheus proving himself to be a liar - Kobe takes Lebron to the rack at 1:33, 3:25, 3:51, 3:56, 4:50, 6:08, 7:24, 7:50, and posts him up throughout the video as if lebron is the smaller player.

and dunks on him at the 9:16 mark and 11:05 mark.

also, the fact that lebron can't defend kobe's pull-up jumper is the case in point - lebron has to give kobe extra room and respect to avoid getting juked by kobe's moves and to avoid the blow-by's that are time-stamped above - a quicker-defending guard (as opposed to a slower forward) would be able to get in Kobe's chest more and not worry about the blow-by..

[navy]

A highlight video.

All your arguments come from highlight videos, the same highlight videos that can make any player look good.
It's 3ball. Expect a few over saturated gifs, incoherent fringe arguments, and repeated post over and over.

[deja vu]

Kobe would beat MJ and vice versa.

LeBron would beat Kobe and vice versa.

Durant would beat LeBron and vice versa.

Nobody would destroy anybody. These are not legends against bums.

Anybody saying otherwise is a blind homer.

[Fire Colangelo]

It's 3ball. Expect a few over saturated gifs, incoherent fringe arguments, and repeated post over and over.

It's sad really, he's an informed poster, but decides to post on the level like dubeta on these boards.

[gts]

A highlight video.

All your arguments come from highlight videos, the same highlight videos that can make any player look good.

90% of the arguments on ISH are based on highlight videos...

the board on average isn't old enough to have watched anyone live that was playing before 2004 :lol

[navy]

It's sad really, he's an informed poster, but decides to post on the level like dubeta on these boards.
Yep. I hear he was like this and got banned on other boards as well.

[3ball]

Kobe would beat MJ and vice versa.

LeBron would beat Kobe and vice versa.

Durant would beat LeBron and vice versa.

Nobody would destroy anybody. These are not legends against bums.

Anybody saying otherwise is a blind homer.
you're missing the point of the thread - which is that quick SG's like Kobe and Jordan are bigger mismatches than forwards are against the total range of defenders they face, which means when they are matched up with forward, they hurt the other team more than if it was just two forwards matched up.

they destroy their fellow guards, and are actual mismatches for forwards and bigs - a mismatch means the other team is hurt by allowing it to persist - in this case, the forward's quickness disadvantage is a constant threat and disadvantage to his team's defense.

[Kvnzhangyay]

you're missing the point of the thread - which is that quick SG's like Kobe and Jordan are bigger mismatches than forwards are against the total range of defenders they face, which means when they are matched up with forward, they hurt the other team more than if it was just two forwards matched up.

they destroy their fellow guards, and are actual mismatches for forwards and bigs - a mismatch means the other team is hurt by allowing it to persist - in this case, the forward's quickness disadvantage is a constant threat and disadvantage to his team's defense.

Just like how forwards are too fast/big for guards to guard them, creating mismatches also?

[3ball]

Just like how forwards are too fast/big for guards to guard them, creating mismatches also?
forwards aren't too fast for guards, it's the other way around.

forwards are bigger, but if the forward isn't specifically a big man that plays inside already, that's a harder thing to take advantage of than speed.

that's why when diaw was guarding lebron, it didn't hurt the spurs at all, but it would have if that was kobe or jordan - said another way, a forward against another forward was not a mismatch in that spot, but a quick SG against a forward would have been.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

forwards aren't too fast for guards, it's the other way around.

forwards are bigger, but if the forward isn't specifically a big man that plays inside already, that's a harder thing to take advantage of than speed.

that's why when diaw was guarding lebron, it didn't hurt the spurs at all, but it would have if that was kobe or jordan - said another way, a forward against another forward was not a mismatch in that spot, but a quick SG against a forward would have been.
That's why they have leonard to guard kobe. Remember 1/14?

[3ball]

Nobody would destroy anybody.


Jordan would... he's the consensus GOAT with the best overall package of stats, athleticism, skills/moves, and fundamentals.





LeBron would beat Kobe and vice versa.


the video in the OP proves this isn't true - kobe scored on lebron much easier than lebron scores on kobe.





These are not legends against bums.


the point of the thread is to show that Kobe scored on Lebron easily and at will - it was a mismatch, where the forward's quickness deficit (lebron) put his team defense at a perpetual disadvantage.

and given how easy it was for kobe, just imagine how much more dominant MJ would have been against lebron - and this is what happens when you have a quick guard being defended by a forward - it's a dangerous quickness mismatch that the other team can't allow to persist.
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[navy]

3ball with the edits.

[3ball]

3ball with the edits.
the video in the OP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABKg2azkp0) proves that kobe scored on lebron very easily and very often - but the point of the thread is really to demonstrate that if it's this easy for kobe, just think how much Jordan would dominate lebron.

it shouldn't be a surprise... not only was Jordan always a massive mismatch for bigger defenders like Dennis Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858), Grant Hill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322), Reggie Lewis (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19), Clyde Drexler (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8), Richard Dumas (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30), Penny Hardaway (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24), and Dominique Wilkins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25), but we already know that quick SG's against forwards is one of the worst mismatches a team can face - it's a mismatch where the forward's quickness disadvantage threatens the team's overall defense.
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[Kvnzhangyay]

the point of the thread wasn't only to show how easy and often kobe scored on lebron (which the video did pretty well obviously), but to demonstrate that if it's this easy for kobe, just think how much Jordan would dominate lebron.

it shouldn't be a surprise... not only was Jordan always a massive mismatch for bigger defenders like Dennis Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858), Grant Hill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322), Reggie Lewis (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19), Clyde Drexler (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8), Richard Dumas (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30), Penny Hardaway (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24), and Dominique Wilkins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25), but we already know that quick SG's are always a dangerous mismatch for slower forwards - it's a mismatch where the forward's quickness disadvantage threatens the team's overall defense.

jordan would not dominate Lebron though, just as how Kobe never dominated Lebron

[3ball]

jordan would not dominate Lebron though, just as how Kobe never dominated Lebron

How well would Jordan score on Lebron?... Short answer:

MJ made Dennis Rodman look worse (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) than guys like Paul George, Paul Pierce, Kobe and Kawhi Leonard make Lebron look... :confusedshrug:... not sure how you argue against that.


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/5b7d01b625a9cd40b2d41d99d7423323.gif


Lebron's never faced anyone with Jordan's scoring frequency, aggressiveness, and stamina - Jordan would score on Lebron the easiest of them all, and that would be a lot because today's players were already were doing well against him.

Now let's look at how well Jordan would defend Lebron - he'd do at least as well as Boris Diaw, fossil Paul Pierce or Gordon Hayward... wow, that was easy to explain (that's what happens when your offensive game is pretty rigid and not unstoppable).

[Kvnzhangyay]

How well would Jordan score on Lebron?... Short answer: MJ made Dennis Rodman look worse (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) than guys like Paul George, Paul Pierce, Kobe and Kawhi Leonard make Lebron look... :confusedshrug:... not sure how you argue against that.


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/5b7d01b625a9cd40b2d41d99d7423323.gif


Lebron's never faced anyone with Jordan's scoring frequency, aggressiveness, and stamina - Jordan would score on Lebron the easiest of them all, and that would be a lot because today's players were already were doing well against him.

Now let's look at how well Jordan would defend Lebron - he'd do at least as well as Boris Diaw, fossil Paul Pierce or Gordon Hayward... wow, that was easy to explain (that's what happens when your offensive game is pretty rigid and not unstoppable).

so basically your making an assumption based on your beliefs and opinions

[3ball]

so basically your making an assumption based on your beliefs and opinions
it's not an assumption - it's the truth that Jordan scored on Rodman a lot easier and better (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) than Paul George, Kobe, Kawhi Leonard and others scored on Lebron.

on defense, he'd do at least as well as Boris Diaw, fossil Paul Pierce or Gordon Hayward... (that's what happens when your offensive game is pretty rigid and not unstoppable - you can be adequately defended by slow forwards - could never happen with Jordan or Kobe though)..

[3ball]

so basically your making an assumption based on your beliefs and opinions


it's not an assumption - it's the truth that Jordan scored on Rodman easier (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) than Paul George, Kobe, Kawhi Leonard, Gordon Hayward, or Paul Pierce scored on Lebron.

not only is jordan better than those guys, but rodman is a better defender than lebron as well, so it only makes sense to conclude that jordan would be a massive mismatch for lebron, just like he was against all bigger defenders, such as Dennis Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858), Reggie Lewis (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19), Clyde Drexler (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8), Richard Dumas (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30), Penny Hardaway (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24), Grant Hill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322), and Dominique Wilkins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25).
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[Kvnzhangyay]

it's not an assumption - it's the truth that Jordan scored on Rodman easier (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) than Paul George, Kobe, Kawhi Leonard, Gordon Hayward, or Paul Pierce scored on Lebron.

not only is jordan better than those guys, but rodman is a better defender than lebron as well, so it only makes sense to conclude that jordan would be a massive mismatch for lebron, just like he was against all bigger defenders, such as Grant Hill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322), Reggie Lewis (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19), Clyde Drexler (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8), Richard Dumas (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30), Penny Hardaway (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24), and Dominique Wilkins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25).

so its still an opinion?

[ThatCoolKid]

it's not an assumption - it's the truth that Jordan scored on Rodman easier (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) than Paul George, Kobe, Kawhi Leonard, Gordon Hayward, or Paul Pierce scored on Lebron.

not only is jordan better than those guys, but rodman is a better defender than lebron as well, so it only makes sense to conclude that jordan would be a massive mismatch for lebron, just like he was against all bigger defenders, such as Grant Hill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322), Reggie Lewis (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19), Clyde Drexler (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8), Richard Dumas (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30), Penny Hardaway (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24), and Dominique Wilkins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25).

These transitive arguments you keep making A>B B>C therefore A>C don't work in sports. It's all about matchups.

[3ball]

These transitive arguments you keep making A>B B>C therefore A>C don't work in sports.
true, but as you can see, the video shows kobe scoring easily on lebron, which means jordan would score even easier.

kobe's dominance of the league has always just been an advertisement for how much greater jordan would be.



It's all about matchups.
exactly - which is why OP's video of Kobe scoring so easily on Lebron is not surprising - quick SG's have always been big mismatches for slower forwards.

a quickness deficit is the most threatening to a defense, and the forward's quickness deficit makes the entire team defense more vulnerable - this is why out of all the positions, quick SG's present the biggest mismatches against the entire range of possible defenders.
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[Cavalier]

To even it out a little bit, here's a shot from '08 LeBron over Kobe at the end of a game in LA to put the Cavs up by 3.

http://youtu.be/hcWlEXrYjLE?t=11m47s

[ImKobe]

Still remember when it was crunch time and Lebron was defending Kobe, he hit 3 straight jumpers from the same spot with the last one being a game-winner

Lebron deferred to Ilgauskas in that game as well, I think he had a season-high scoring game too and scored one of the big baskets in the final minute.

[3ball]

so its still an opinion?



You think it's just my opinion that Jordan scored better on Rodman, than Paul George, Kawhi and others scored on Lebron?

The eyetest of watching MJ's FG's on Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) shows that Jordan scored more frequently and spectacularly on a better defender (Rodman), than inferior scorers (Paul George, Kawhi, etc) scored on a worse defender (Lebron).

As easy as Kobe scores on Lebron in OP's video, does it compare to the more spectacular plays and higher frequency that Jordan had on Rodman?

Point me to where Kobe, Kawhi, or any of these guys' highlights compare - Have any of these guys ever hit a game-winner on lebron, had a GOAT hangtime finish on a jumpshot, or dunked on 3 guys after the blow-by like MJ did on Rodman below?.. How about all three?


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Game_Winner_over_Rodman_cdfed0b0df8b81a04f9 cc8608a8e31bb.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/21cf58962cdecf97df82faab57439012.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/7e73a5105b77725d4d7c47736486d0b9.gif


Lebron is an inferior defender to Rodman, and Jordan scores much better than Kobe, Kawhi, and the like: that means Jordan would destroy Lebron.

Jordan scored better against a better defender, than inferior scorers scored on a worse defender.

in b4 someone posts something inferior to the plays above
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[Soundwave]

1-on-1 being slightly shorter but considerably faster off the first step is a huge advantage.

Kobe would beat LeBron 1-on-1 IMO at any comparable age.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Where's LeBron's offensive highlights? I remember he made Kobe fall with a spin move in 2010. Didn't convert because he got tripped up by Bryant's feet on the ground.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Lebron is an inferior defender to Rodman, and Jordan scores much better than Kobe, Kawhi, and the like: that means Jordan would destroy Lebron.

Jordan scored better against a better defender, than inferior scorers scored on a worse defender.

in b4 someone posts something inferior to the plays above
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Thats so wrong in so many ways.
And no, Kobe at his best is the best scorer of all time and I dont even like the guy.
Jordan would have a tough time scoring on Lebron too. Half of those tough shots Kobe scored in that video would not fall in for Jordan.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan would have a tough time scoring on Lebron too. Half of those tough shots Kobe scored in that video would not fall in for Jordan.
How would you even be able to say that so definitively? MJ's made plenty of difficult shots.

Moot point anyway considering MJ gets way better separation from his defender than Kobe. If Jordan was torching prime Pippen daily, you think he'd struggle with LeBron? Pippen is a superior defender.

Also ... you basically just claimed Kobe is a better scorer than Jordan.

Mike would have an easier time scoring on LeBron than Kobe due to his comparable deceptive footwork, skill set but with superior athleticism, quickness, and hops.

[AirFederer]

I don`t get the point of the thread.

Smaller, faster guards are "always" a mismatch for bigger guys. Especially when they are as skilled as Kobe.

But it also goes the other way, the bigger guy will have an advantage ehen he`s on offence. Like a guy with the tools that Bron has.

:confusedshrug:

If this is a Kobe vs Lerbron debate I`m out.

[LEFT4DEAD]

How would you even be able to say that so definitively? MJ's made plenty of difficult shots.

Moot point anyway considering MJ gets way better separation from his defender than Kobe. If Jordan was torching prime Pippen daily, you think he'd struggle with LeBron? Pippen is a superior defender.

Also ... you basically just claimed Kobe is a better scorer than Jordan.

Mike would have an easier time scoring on LeBron than Kobe due to his comparable deceptive footwork, skill set but with superior athleticism, quickness, and hops.
Kobe in his prime is two times better scorer than anybody in the NBA history. And he even had to score on the best defenders of all times like Bowen or Marion and not on some 6'1" midget.

Young and not so experienced Kobe destroyed Jordan in couple of matchups. Jordan was obviously shooked on so many ocassions when Kobe was playing vs him and dont even try to deny it.

And I thought Jordan and Pippen were playing together? :biggums:

[ImKobe]

Kobe in his prime is two times better scorer than anybody in the NBA history. And he even had to score on the best defenders of all times like Bowen or Marion and not on some 6'1" midget.

Young and not so experienced Kobe destroyed Jordan in couple of matchups. Jordan was obviously shooked on so many ocassions when Kobe was playing vs him and dont even try to deny it.

And I thought Jordan and Pippen were playing together? :biggums:


I think they only faced off once in 03 and Pippen outplayed MJ in that game

14/7/5 on 86% shooting for Pippen
14/5/1 on 60% shooting for MJ

[9erempiree]

Huge mismatch. What idiot would put Lebron on Kobe Bryant?

Lets talk about the defensive mismatch too. If Kobe is on Lebron, don't pass the ball to Lebron or else it would end up being a steal or block by Kobe.

Lets not forget this either.....nuts all up in the chin.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BA3y-etCEAEk9UU.jpg

[3ball]

Thats so wrong in so many ways.
And no, Kobe at his best is the best scorer of all time and I dont even like the guy.
Jordan would have a tough time scoring on Lebron too. Half of those tough shots Kobe scored in that video would not fall in for Jordan.
Kobe doesn't take tougher shots - he takes the same shots Jordan took, but they are just harder for Kobe to convert, because his physical advantage over the defender is less - this can fool people into thinking he takes tougher shots, when really, they are the same shots, but just harder for him to convert than for Jordan.

So for those tough fadeaways that Kobe made on Lebron in the OP vid, Jordan would have found an easier shot altogether, or made the same shot look much easier.

The difficult shots that Jordan DOES take, Kobe wouldn't even be able to attempt - Jordan has a ton of those... For example, aside from Jordan's superior hangtime and strength (below), MJ had twice as many dunks per season (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352399).


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a0d91726a38975e6c3083fb083317d39.gif


As another example, Kobe rarely blew by Lebron in the OP vid, or finished strongly at the rim - whereas, Jordan had many plays where he blew by Rodman and finished strongly at the rim (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64).
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[aj1987]

Huge mismatch. What idiot would put Lebron on Kobe Bryant?

Lets talk about the defensive mismatch too. If Kobe is on Lebron, don't pass the ball to Lebron or else it would end up being a steal or block by Kobe.

Lets not forget this either.....nuts all up in the chin.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BA3y-etCEAEk9UU.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNcFnUFRhM&spfreload=10

22/4/1/1 on 32% shooting with 6 TOV's.

[stephanieg]

Weird thread, since LeBron has generally outplayed Kobe (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=jamesle01) in their matchups over the years. I like how they both shoot 29% from three.

I'm not a fan of either player's games. Kobe is an egomaniac who plays selfishly and stupidly, LeBron is unpolished and carried by preferential ref treatment. But it seems Kobe could never deal with LeBron's combination of size and athleticism, despite the skill gap in ball handling and footwork. I remember a lot of times LeBron would zoom down the court while Kobe was lagging behind. If LeBron had a reliable post game back then it'd be even more lopsided.

It might be more interesting now, if LeBron's athleticism is declining. Kobe's game never revolved around athleticism much.

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe has always owned Lebron.

Kobe loved guarding him, but Lebron would mostly shy away.

Lebron treated the games like Kobe did vs Jordan.

[tmacattack33]

The creator of the video's screen name is "Kobe Can".

There might have been a little bias here.

[Dragonyeuw]

Young and not so experienced Kobe destroyed Jordan in couple of matchups.] Jordan was obviously shooked on so many ocassions when Kobe was playing vs him and dont even try to deny it.

And I thought Jordan and Pippen were playing together? :biggums:

That's a slight exaggeration. Were there some plays where Kobe got the better of MJ? Of course, even by his second season Kobe was offensively gifted, if raw and undisciplined. There were also plenty of occasions where MJ got the better of Kobe too, including as a Wizard when MJ was 40 and Kobe was coming into his own as a superstar.

[3ball]

That's a slight exaggeration.


actually it's a huge exaggeration.. kobe is always treated with kid gloves in the jordan comparison - few people are willing to admit what the stats prove definitively - that kobe was worse in every way.

here's an example of the kid gloves that i'm talking about - people actually think the kobe-jordan matchup was close when they matched up in their careers, but the reality is that kobe scored on Jordan a grand total of two times in their entire careers, including Jordan's Wizard years.

whereas Jordan has scored on Kobe over a dozen times - GIFs are ready to go - Jordan actually MURDERED Kobe in head-to-head matchups and scored on Kobe repeatedly, but somehow kobe is perceived as being close to Jordan.

for example, in the 1998 all-star game, people think kobe played jordan well, but Jordan scored on Kobe 5 times, and Kobe didn't score on Jordan even once!!!!!!!!... Jordan DESTROYED kobe in the 1998 all-star game, but people actually think it was close... this is the type of overrating kobe gets in comparison to Jordan.
.

[3ball]

derails aside, the OP's video showing kobe scoring at will on lebron demonstrates that kobe's quickness makes him a mismatch for lebron, just like any quick guard is for a forward - kobe is a bigger mismatch for lebron than vice versa, largely because lebron's quickness deficit guarding kobe makes his team's defense vulnerable.

and since we know from the video that kobe takes lebron at will, this lets us know that jordan would score on lebron even easier, especially considering how jordan was able to blow by (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64) better defenders like Rodman much easier, more frequently, and more spectacularly than Kobe did Lebron.
.

[Dragonyeuw]

the reality is that kobe scored on Jordan a grand total of two times in their entire careers
.

The times that come immediately to mind:

-1997, Kobe posting MJ and dropping a fadeaway

-same game, making a backdoor cut and finishing with a two handed dunk

- 2002, Kobe shoots over Wizards MJ after a few between the legs, finishes with a 20 foot jumper

Thats what I recall as far as straight up, mano a mano times that Kobe scored directly against MJ 's defense.

[3ball]

The times that come immediately to mind:

-1997, Kobe posting MJ and dropping a fadeaway

-same game, making a backdoor cut and finishing with a two handed dunk

- 2002, Kobe shoots over Wizards MJ after a few between the legs, finishes with a 20 foot jumper

Thats what I recall as far as straight up, mano a mano times that Kobe scored directly against MJ 's defense.
that's two if you don't count the backdoor, which i hadn't...

the truth is that MJ didn't want to act like he was playing hard against the young upstart.. and yet kobe could not muster more than a couple scores on him, while Jordan has over a dozen on Kobe.

Jordan was just that much better... Kobe takes Lebron at will, but that just lets us know Jordan would score on Lebron even easier, especially considering how Jordan was able to blow by (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64) better defenders like Rodman much easier, more frequently, and more spectacularly than Kobe did Lebron.

[Prometheus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUPtfJjwX4

The above video is not as specific to this debate as the one posted in the OP, but it still features dozens of plays in which Kobe is guarding LeBron and vice versa. This time, the maker of the video is a bran stan, and so it appears from this footage that LeBron is a huge mismatch for Kobe and not the other way around.

I am not arguing for LeBron > Kobe (although it's true) here, I'm just pointing out that a compilation video made by a biased fan proves nothing.

[3ball]

I'm just pointing out that a compilation video proves nothing.


It proves a ton.. the video proves that Kobe can take Lebron at will, which lets us know Jordan would take Lebron ever easier.

Not only was Jordan better than Kobe, but we have actual footage of Jordan blowing by (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64) better defenders like Rodman much easier, more frequently, and more spectacularly than Kobe did Lebron.

[Prometheus]

It proves a ton.. the video proves that Kobe can take Lebron at will, which lets us know Jordan would take Lebron ever easier - it's not only that Jordan was better than Kobe, but we know Jordan was able to blow by (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64) better defenders like Rodman much easier, more frequently, and more spectacularly than Kobe did Lebron.

If your video proves that Kobe can take LeBron at will, my video proves that LeBron can take Kobe at will. And since my video features LeBron blocking Kobe at the rim, taking the ball right out of his hands on a drive, and forcing him into bad fade-away jumpers that miss horribly, it proves that Kobe can't score on LeBron.

So in this thread we learned that Kobe can take LeBron at will and score on him easily, but we also learned that Kobe can't score on LeBron at all.

Biased highlight videos that only show one kind of result prove nothing.

[Prometheus]

It proves a ton.. the video proves that Kobe can take Lebron at will, which lets us know Jordan would take Lebron ever easier.

Not only was Jordan better than Kobe, but we have actual footage of Jordan blowing by (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64) better defenders like Rodman much easier, more frequently, and more spectacularly than Kobe did Lebron.

Also, if your point is that MJ > LeBron, then you're 100% correct. Jordan was better than LeBron. It's hard to see why you're so passionate... so obsessed... with proving this... since there's really no one to prove it to. Everyone pretty much agrees with you already, you strange, strange person.

[3ball]

.
MJ GOAT Posters on Patrick Ewing


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Goat_Being_Goat_d0bf483c9bfad282678b93f50aa3882c.g if


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/38218f7341963c1eec15f380ad2531d5.gif

[3ball]

If your video proves that Kobe can take LeBron at will, my video proves that LeBron can take Kobe at will.


Highlights are important.

kobe's best plays against lebron provide important revelations - his best plays are done with less ease, less frequency and are less spectacular than Jordan's best plays against a better defender (Rodman).

of course, we already know Jordan would do better than Kobe against Lebron because Jordan is better than Kobe... but with the Rodman footage, we can deduce that since Rodman is a better defender than Lebron, Jordan would be more spectacular against Lebron than he already was against Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858)..

[Hey Yo]

You think it's just my opinion that Jordan scored better on Rodman, than Paul George, Kawhi and others scored on Lebron?

The eyetest of watching MJ's FG's on Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858) shows that Jordan scored more frequently and spectacularly on a better defender (Rodman), than inferior scorers (Paul George, Kawhi, etc) scored on a worse defender (Lebron).

As easy as Kobe scores on Lebron in OP's video, does it compare to the more spectacular plays and higher frequency that Jordan had on Rodman?

Point me to where Kobe, Kawhi, or any of these guys' highlights compare - Have any of these guys ever hit a game-winner on lebron, had a GOAT hangtime finish on a jumpshot, or dunked on 3 guys after the blow-by like MJ did on Rodman below?.. How about all three?


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Game_Winner_over_Rodman_cdfed0b0df8b81a04f9 cc8608a8e31bb.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/21cf58962cdecf97df82faab57439012.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/7e73a5105b77725d4d7c47736486d0b9.gif


Lebron is an inferior defender to Rodman, and Jordan scores much better than Kobe, Kawhi, and the like: that means Jordan would destroy Lebron.

Jordan scored better against a better defender, than inferior scorers scored on a worse defender.

in b4 someone posts something inferior to the plays above
.
First GIF shows time running out (more than likely in 4th with Bulls trialing considering how crowd reacted) and Daly probably instructed team not to foul. So Rodman didn't play close D in order not to foul.

Second GIF shows Mark Aguirre guarding MJ.

Third GIF shows Rodman coming over to help on D and MJ gets him in the air with a small pump fake. Then MJ goes to the hole and dunks on lead footed James Edwards.

Not the best of examples for you to use considering the point you're trying to make.

[Prometheus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUPtfJjwX4

The above video is not as specific to this debate as the one posted in the OP, but it still features dozens of plays in which Kobe is guarding LeBron and vice versa. This time, the maker of the video is a bran stan, and so it appears from this footage that LeBron is a huge mismatch for Kobe and not the other way around.

I am not arguing for LeBron > Kobe (although it's true) here, I'm just pointing out that a compilation video made by a biased fan proves nothing.

[3ball]

I'm just pointing out that a compilation video proves nothing.


It proves a ton.. the video proves that Kobe can take Lebron at will, which lets us know Jordan would take Lebron ever easier.

Not only was Jordan better than Kobe, but we have actual footage of Jordan blowing by (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64) better defenders like Rodman much easier, more frequently, and more spectacularly than Kobe did Lebron.

[Prometheus]

If your video proves that Kobe can take LeBron at will, my video proves that LeBron can take Kobe at will. And since my video features LeBron blocking Kobe at the rim, taking the ball right out of his hands on a drive, and forcing him into bad fade-away jumpers that miss horribly, it proves that Kobe can't score on LeBron.

So in this thread we learned that Kobe can take LeBron at will and score on him easily, but we also learned that Kobe can't score on LeBron at all.

Biased highlight videos that only show one kind of result prove nothing.

[3ball]

If your video proves that Kobe can take LeBron at will, my video proves that LeBron can take Kobe at will.


Highlights are important.

kobe's best plays against lebron provide important revelations - his best plays are done with less ease, less frequency and are less spectacular than Jordan's best plays against a better defender (Rodman).

of course, we already know Jordan would do better than Kobe against Lebron because Jordan is better than Kobe... but with the Rodman footage, we can deduce that since Rodman is a better defender than Lebron, Jordan would be more spectacular against Lebron than he already was against Rodman (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858)...

[3ball]

Also, if your point is that MJ > LeBron, then you're 100% correct. Jordan was better than LeBron. It's hard to see why you're so passionate... so obsessed... with proving this... since there's really no one to prove it to. Everyone pretty much agrees with you already, you strange, strange person.
after the 2014 Finals, people like to say they knew jordan was better than lebron all along... pathetic.

i know better than that, because all i heard from fans was how lebron was ALREADY better than jordan.... how hilarious is that..

[Prometheus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUPtfJjwX4

The above video is not as specific to this debate as the one posted in the OP, but it still features dozens of plays in which Kobe is guarding LeBron and vice versa. This time, the maker of the video is a bran stan, and so it appears from this footage that LeBron is a huge mismatch for Kobe and not the other way around.

I am not arguing for LeBron > Kobe (although it's true) here, I'm just pointing out that a compilation video made by a biased fan proves nothing.



P.S. Jordan would have torched LeBron and everyone outside of the LeBron family has been aware of this all along.

[3ball]

The above video is not as specific to this debate as the one posted in the OP, but it still features dozens of plays in which Kobe is guarding LeBron and vice versa. This time, the maker of the video is a bran stan, and so it appears from this footage that LeBron is a huge mismatch for Kobe and not the other way around.

P.S. Jordan would have torched LeBron and everyone outside of the LeBron family has been aware of this all along.


very true and very well-said... :cheers:

[Prometheus]

very true and very well-said... :cheers:

:lol

I'm honestly curious sometimes. You obviously hate LeBron James as you are very obsessed with diminishing his reputation on these boards. Do you even think he's a great player? Where would you rank him all-time right now amongst all players, and also amongst forwards?

[3ball]

:lol

I'm honestly curious sometimes. You obviously hate LeBron James as you are very obsessed with diminishing his reputation on these boards. Do you even think he's a great player? Where would you rank him all-time right now amongst all players, and also amongst forwards?
i was just annoyed when the media, espn, basically everyone kept shoving down our throats that Lebron was as good as MJ.

i think he's a great player, somewhere between top 10-20 all-time... somewhere in there... here's my actual order:

Russell, Wilt, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan.... Lebron could go #10 based on the most basic criteria of rankings, but there are a lot of guys that have an argument for that spot too (Kobe, West, Oscar, Moses, Dr. J and others).

and it's easy to not realize that there is a massive gap between guys at 1-5 and guys at 6-10, let alone guys further down than that.

amongst just forwards, i think he's behind Bird and Magic, possibly Dr. J too (Dr. J's athleticism in 1970 was basically equal to Lebron's now, pre-modern training... pretty amazing tbh... his highlights show unbelievable athleticism... the guy had 136 dunks as a 36-year old, etc.).
.

[Prometheus]

i was just annoyed when the media, espn, basically everyone kept shoving down our throats that Lebron was as good as MJ.

i think he's a great player, somewhere between top 10-20 all-time... somewhere in there... here's my actual order:

Russell, Wilt, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan.... Lebron could go #10, but there are a lot of guys that have an argument for that spot too (Kobe, West, Oscar and others)... and it's easy to not realize that there is a massive gap between guys at 6-10 and guys at 1-5.

First of all, :cheers:

Second of all, I think I can speak for everyone on ISH when I say that the fact that you don't have Jordan at #1 is one of the most shocking things since the Virginia Tech massacre.

I would go Jordan, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan... I then arrive at the same problem you do. Pretty funny to me that we don't really see things all that differently after all.

[3ball]

.
MJ Posterizes James Worthy


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/292794e9b3da9f52851381c9967b0713.gif

[Prometheus]

and i know it's not a good way to do it, but i always put Russell and Wilt at the top by default - it's impossible to go back and gauge all the crap they had to deal with while being great, so i just close my eyes and give it to them...

Well said.

I personally like both LeBron and Kobe a lot, but I find it incredibly disrespectful and ignorant when people rank either one of them in the all-time top five. I would consider both of them to be relatively equal in greatness, both in the 10-15 range. Kobe deserves to be ranked higher still, merely out of acknowledgement to what he has achieved, but I think LeBron is actually the better basketball player... if that makes sense. Jordan shits on both of them though.

[fpliii]

So...you guys would both take Bird or Magic over Hakeem as your franchise player?

[Prometheus]

So...you guys would both take Bird or Magic over Hakeem as your franchise player?

In a heartbeat.