Anyone listening to the Serial podcast?

[KevinNYC]

Serial podcast stats
20 million total downloads; 2.23 million per episode
Fastest podcast ever to reach 5 million iTunes downloads
Top of the podcast charts in the US, UK, Germany, Australia and elsewhere.

It's a long look into a murder case in Baltimore and 9 episdoes in you have no idea if the guy convicted of the murder did it or not. You get to hear him interviewed a ton. Bunch of folks are reddit are obsessed with and looking at the evidence.

It's a spinoff of NPR's This American Life and has all the charm/faults of that.

[KevinNYC]

You basically are left asking yourself, is this guy totally innocent like he sounds or is he an amazingly gifted liar?

http://serialpodcast.org/

[IamRAMBO24]

Never heard of this but this sounds interesting.

[SugarHill]

Just started it. It's incredibly interesting.

[shadow]

It's an amazing Podcast. Anyone not listening to it is missing out.

[chazzy]

Yeah. God damn I can't stand the way Gutierrez speaks

[oh the horror]

I'll check it out. I don't listen to much music when I drive so always looking for new podcasts.

[guy]

Just listened to the whole thing. Great podcast. I still think he did it though.

[KevinNYC]

Just listened to the whole thing. Great podcast. I still think he did it though.

The main witness against Adnan has now given an interview
Jay Speaks. (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/)

[guy]

The main witness against Adnan has now spoken out.

Jay Speaks. (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/)

Yea I read it. And I still believe him. Even though his story changes a lot, I chalk that up to someone being a teenager that smoked a lot of weed and probably can't account for where he was that easily and I buy that he was trying to protect his grandmother and other people he cared about. I don't see why he would lie and I don't see any reason why he would've decided to do that interview a few days ago either when he could've just stayed quiet if he was lying.

I think Adnan may just be a really convincing psychopathic liar that wants to get out of jail and will do anything to get out at this point. But I also believe that there's too many discrepancies and I'm really shocked that he actually got convicted in this case.

One thing I find weird is how both of these dudes didn't really consider the other as a friend and more of an acquaintance. Umm, who lends out their car and phone to an acquaintance?

[LJJ]

Yup haha. I love stuff like this.

I still think he did it too. The podcast is framed as extremely sympathetic towards the convicted guy, you have to understand if you had the time you could easily make the same thing except swinging in the opposite direction.

[Thorpesaurous]

I'd never heard of it, but it's right up my ally. So I just listened to episode one, and now I'm hooked.

[KevinNYC]

Yea I read it. And I still believe him. Even though his story changes a lot, I chalk that up to someone being a teenager that smoked a lot of weed and probably can't account for where he was that easily and I buy that he was trying to protect his grandmother and other people he cared about. I don't see why he would lie and I don't see any reason why he would've decided to do that interview a few days ago either when he could've just stayed quiet if he was lying.

I think Adnan may just be a really convincing psychopathic liar that wants to get out of jail and will do anything to get out at this point. But I also believe that there's too many discrepancies and I'm really shocked that he actually got convicted in this case.

One thing I find weird is how both of these dudes didn't really consider the other as a friend and more of an acquaintance. Umm, who lends out their car and phone to an acquaintance?
You could also ask the question, who helps an acquaintance bury a body? I do felt like Jay's case made more sense after hearing this interview, but how well would it stand up to cross examination? Remember he had a lawyer. The lawyer should have told him it was in his best interest to to be straight with the cops. I know he smoked weed, but who forgets the location where someone pops a trunk and shows you a dead body?

The lawyer friend of Adnan is very happy about Jay's interview and she would probably tear him apart on the stand.

Put this together and Jay's lies begin to make a bit more sense. He saw himself as a target. He feared the police. He feared implicating people he loved. He feared hurting his grandmother. He told the police enough to get them off his back, but he withheld anything he thought might widen their investigation to his friends and his family. Jay's actions here may not be right. But they're comprehensible, even familiar.

The problem is they completely undermine the state's case against Adnan.

Rabia Chaudry is a lawyer and national security fellow at the New America Foundation. But she's also a family friend of the Syeds, and she brought the case to Koenig's attention. And in the hours after Jay's interview broke, her Twitter feed was an almost unbroken celebration.

I spoke with Chaudry on Tuesday, and she explained why....

"If what he’s reporting is the truth right now," she said, "then what he’s saying is that when he took the stand under oath at trial one, he lied, and when he took the stand under oath at trial two, he lied … If there was a third trial, that could be used to impeach his credibility."

Chaudry ticks off the changes. "Definitely the idea that the body was buried after midnight. The cell records were used again and again to show the phone was in Leakin Park at 7pm. Now [Jay] is saying it wasn’t 7pm. It was midnight. Jay is now saying at no point was he shown the body at Best Buy, that that never happened. He had this very detailed story of pulling into Best Buy; Adnan is wearing these red gloves. He's now saying, no, Adnan never told me he would do it that day, he just showed up and said I’ll be contacting you later."

The argument for trusting Jay has been that while the details of his story change, "the spine," as Koenig put it, holds. That's over, Chaudry says. "This completely destroys the state's case. This carefully planned out timeline with all the phone records is wrecked."

[guy]

You could also ask the question, who helps an acquaintance bury a body? I do felt like Jay's case made more sense after hearing this interview, but how well would it stand up to cross examination? Remember he had a lawyer. The lawyer should have told him it was in his best interest to to be straight with the cops. I know he smoked weed, but who forgets the location where someone pops a trunk and shows you a dead body?

The lawyer friend of Adnan is very happy about Jay's interview and she would probably tear him apart on the stand.

Well he claimed Adnan threatened him i.e. threatening to tell the cops about his drug dealings, telling him he'll kill his girlfriend, etc.

And by the way, I find it weird that both of them only consider each other acquaintances. They smoke weed together, Jay regularly borrows Adnan's car (remember Adnan's track friends said Jay picking him up from track was something normal), Adnan visits him at work, etc.

How many different places has he claimed Adnan showed him the body now? Best buy, the pool hall, and his grandma's? Well the whole time he was trying to protect his grandma and his drug dealings, which were at his grandma's house right? I buy that. So its not surprising that his story changed that much up until the end of the trial. Its a lot harder to keep the same story when you're lying as opposed to telling the truth. Plus, its not like I think Jay is that smart. And did he have the lawyer the whole time?

[Im so nba'd out]

Well since jay knew exactly where the car was that means either Jay or Adnan did it.Him knowing where the car is rules out everyone else on earth.No way he makes all this up + knows where the car is if someone else did it.They are now trying to claim that some random serial killer did it but im sure that happens in a lot of cases like this.

[KevinNYC]

Well since jay knew exactly where the car was that means either Jay or Adnan did it.Him knowing where the car is rules out everyone else on earth.No way he makes all this up + knows where the car is if someone else did it.They are now trying to claim that some random serial killer did it but im sure that happens in a lot of cases like this.

You're missing another possible option. Somebody else that Jay knew killed her and Jay either did it with this person or learned about it.

A lot of people are pointing out that Jay still seems paranoid about the case to this day. He can't be in fear of Adnan, he's in jail.

[Im so nba'd out]

You're missing another possible option. Somebody else that Jay knew killed her and Jay either did it with this person or learned about it.

A lot of people are pointing out that Jay still seems paranoid about the case to this day. He can't be in fear of Adnan, he's in jail.
Side effect of smoking weed.If he really was paranoid why would he put his face out there and do a interview?

[guy]

You're missing another possible option. Somebody else that Jay knew killed her and Jay either did it with this person or learned about it.

A lot of people are pointing out that Jay still seems paranoid about the case to this day. He can't be in fear of Adnan, he's in jail.

So the day Jay kills Hay or helped the person that did or learned about who did, Adnan coincidentally lends his car and phone to Jay?

Like they said in the last episode, for Adnan to be innocent he is incredibly unlucky for so much other stuff that would go against that to happen.

[Im so nba'd out]

someone please bump this thread when season 2 starts :cheers:

[KevinNYC]

Side effect of smoking weed.If he really was paranoid why would he put his face out there and do a interview?
It was already out there.

The case files are public information and people found his facebook page weeks ago.

[guy]

Finished episode 12 earlier today.. at this very moment I'm leaning towards the business partners theory on reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2r980j/not_friends_they_were_business_partners/). Both are clearly hiding something and giving half-truths.. someone else could also be involved that's still a threat to them and their families.

What really irritates me is the police going out of their way to distort the evidence and have Jay's story matchup with theirs.. the missing hours while being interviewed by the police.. and the obvious islamophobic slant by the jury/judge etc.. and worst of all, Jay getting a slap on the wrist with a mere 2 year probation. :facepalm

Interesting theory. But it doesn't make sense for Adnan to hide the fact that he was drug dealing when it could've saved a premeditated murder charge when Hay is already dead. It's possible that he feels like other people he cared about could've been harmed even till this day but then why the hell would Adnan agree to do this podcast?

And an ounce of weed isn't necessarily bought to be sold. You can go through an oz of weed over a week or two.

[ballup]

Currently listening to the last few episodes. It's really interesting.

[ballup]

Just finished the last episode. I feel terrible after this binge. Like the host, I still don't know whose side I'm on, making me question anything and everything about this case. I keep on wondering whose story has been severely molded by hindsight or bias.

[Thorpesaurous]

I finished it last week.

I too liked the business partner theory, and the third party threat. But it makes less sense the more time that passes.

Adnan's been in prison a long time now. How persistent has this threat been? Unless he's actually enjoying prison life, you'd think he'd've turned on any third party killer at this point if he knew about them. How powerful would a drug dealer have to be to remain this powerful 15 years later? He'd have to be on the Nino Brown level or something. Logic sort of dictates that if there is some third party who's at the level of gangland killing small time high school kids' honor student girlfriends, then he probably is either dead or in jail himself at this point, unless he's some kind of Lex Luthor style criminal genius.

At the same time throughout this whole thing, there was never really a compelling theory as to why Jay would've killed her. I know there were some small theories about her seeing him with drugs in Adnan's car, and a few other things, but murder at that point makes little sense. Then Jay starts hanging out with Adnan that same day after spontanieously deciding to kill his girlfriend as a means to set up this really complicated convoluted story to pin it on him. That might be giving Jay too much credit.

I'm at the point where I think it's most likely Adnan did it. That it probably happened something similar to Jay's story. Was there enough evidence to convict Adnan? Probably not from what I heard, if all they really have is Jay's testimony. But that doesn't mean I have to believe he's not the guy.

[ballup]

I do however think the state's timeline was wrong. Both Adnon and Hae were in school at 2:36 that day, according to the unused testimonies of other students like Summer and Asia. The autopsy didn't produce a specific time of death and there's no way they could have been at Best Buy by 2:36 with all of this factored in.

If Adnon did it, why hasn't he pointed the finger at Jay at any time?

[oarabbus]

Anyone know other good stuff to listen to? I'm listening to this series now and am gonna need a new fix soon

[Thorpesaurous]

You know you've hit the big time when SNL does a direct parody of you.

Cecily Strong got the Sarah Koenig voice down pat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA7BCwrpn6U

[KevinNYC]

The lawyer friend of Adnan is very happy about Jay's interview and she would probably tear him apart on the stand.

The family friend of Adnan has now done her own podcast.

The Undisclosed Podcast is a listening experience that reframes, enhances or otherwise shifts everything you've come to know about the State of Maryland's case against Adnan Syed, especially as you've come to know it through listening to Serial.

There six episodes in and they make a very, very strong case for police and prosecutorial misconduct.

They play some of the audio of Jay, the absolutely crucial witness against Adnan, in his first interviews with the cops. There are giant pauses in his story. He sounds like a student who hasn't prepared for a test. Utterly lost.

Several times after these pauses he gives a very clear answer in a manner that that doesn't match his train of though, his earlier tone of voice or previous grammar. It's very startling to hear. They say this happens several times during Jay's interview and it's always preceded what sounds like someone tapping a pen on a desk. They also find some police documents including maps of the area the body was found and cell phone tower maps. On these maps are locations that match Jay's new clear answers. One time after a tapping, Jay gives a very specific intersection, one of the few where both streets are named on the map. Previously Jay is absolutely vague on on street locations.

You can't listen this audio without thinking that the police are interviewing a witness they already coached into a story.

[KevinNYC]

The lawyer is doing the podcast who two other legal bloggers. One of whom is the one who discovered the tapping pattern.

The other thing that is interesting about this is the the map of the cell towers the cops had the first interview was wrong. One of the cell towers was in the wrong place, but the witness tells a story that keeps bringing Adnan's cell phone near that specific tower.

The other legal blogger is an evidence expert and he basically says if you look at the autopsy evidence. The murder/burial could not have happened the way the state said it did.
The cops say the body was buried around 7PM which corresponds to a couple of cell phone pings from Adnan's phone. So this is less than 5 hours after she was seen at school.

The victims body was found laying on its right side. However all the blood evidence indicates the body was laying face down for at least 8 and up to 24 hours (the weather would affect the time) before it was moved to its side.

[outbreak]

I listened to it and while I'm not certain who did it I think Adnan has too many coincidences in his story which means he probably did do it. That being said he should not have been convicted on that evidence especially all the misconduct going on.

I read an interview with Jay that he's done on another site, he claims his story didn't match up because he was dealing and growing drugs at his grandmas house and he'd been told previously if he were dealing there she would lose the house, he says parts of his story that changed actually took place at that house which he was trying to keep out of it. Who knows if it's true but it's an excuse I guess.

[oh the horror]

What is the new podcast with the lawyer?

[ballup]

It's called Undisclosed: The State vs Adnan Syed. It's just an in depth defense for Adnan. It's really biased and the production is terrible in the first couple of episodes.

Not sure why I listen to it. The truth won't ever be revealed

[oh the horror]

Ever see the video clip of Hae Min Lee?


http://youtu.be/jDR7aKYCcBE

[Draz]

I'll check it out, thanks

[KevinNYC]

What is the new podcast with the lawyer?
forgot to add the link

http://undisclosed-podcast.com/

[KevinNYC]

The truth won't ever be revealed

It seems like the chances for a new trial are pretty high. The appeals court in Maryland ruled in his favor about considering eyewitness testimony that provides him an alibi. Testimony that his soon to be disbarred lawyer never followed up on. (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-adnan-syed-circuit-20150630-story.html)


After Syed's arrest, Asia McClain, a Woodlawn classmate, wrote two letters to him in jail in which she wondered how he could be a suspect in the murder when she had seen him in a public library near school on the day prosecutors believe Syed killed Lee.

Syed told his attorney at the time, M. Cristina Gutierrez, about McClain, but the lawyer did not interview her.

The Court of Special Appeals agreed in February to hear Syed's appeal of a lower court ruling that denied his request for a new trial. The court said in May that McClain should be allowed to testify so her testimony could be considered in deliberations on whether Syed deserves a new trial.

The court called on the Baltimore Circuit Court to reopen Syed's post-conviction hearings so McClain's testimony could be taken. Syed's petition Tuesday formally requests that the lower court do so.

[KevinNYC]

Here's what the witness would testify to (http://www.scribd.com/doc/253141767/Asia-McClain-Affidavit-1-13-2015)
While a senior at Woodlawn, I knew both Adnan Syed and Hae Min Lee. I was not particularly close friends with either. 6.

On January 13, 1999, I got out of school early. At some point in the early afternoon, I went to Woodlawn Public Library, which was right next to the high school. 7.

I was in the library when school let out around 2:15 p.m. I was waiting for my boyfriend, Derrick Banks, to pick me up. He was running late. 8.

At around 2:30 p.m., I saw Adnan Syed enter the library. Syed and I had a conversation. We talked about his ex-girlfriend Hae Min Lee and he seemed extremely calm and caring. He explained that he wanted her to be happy and that he had no ill will towards her. 9.

Eventually my boyfriend arrived to pick me up. He was with his best friend, Jerrod Johnson. We left the library around 2:40. Syed was still at the library when we left. 10.

I remember that my boyfriend seemed jealous that I had been talking to Syed. I was angry at him for being extremely late. 11.

The 13
th
of January 1999 was memorable because the following two school days were cancelled due to hazardous winter weather. 12.

I did not think much of this interaction with Syed until he was later arrested and charged in the murder of Hae Min Lee. 13.

Upon learning that he was charged with murder related to Lee’s
disappearance on the 13
th
, I promptly attempted to contact him. 14.

I mailed him two letters to the Baltimore City Jail, one dated March 1, the other dated March 2. (See letters, attached). In these letters I reminded him that we had been in the library together after school. At the time when I wrote these letters, I did not know that the State theorized that the murder took place just before 2:36 pm on January 13, 1999. 15.

I also made it clear in those letters that I wanted to speak to Syed’s lawyer
about what I remembered, and that I would have been willing to help his defense if necessary. 16.

The content of both of those letters was true and accurate to the best of my recollection.

If this is true and the prosecutors can't impeach this testimony, the case falls apart. They claim the murder happened before 2:36 and she says he was in the library until 2:40 which backs up his account.

[KevinNYC]

It's called Undisclosed: The State vs Adnan Syed. It's just an in depth defense for Adnan. It's really biased and the production is terrible in the first couple of episodes.

Not sure why I listen to it. The truth won't ever be revealed
It's definitely a brief for Adnan's defense.

But if the forensic evidence doesn't support what the prosecutor says, is it biased towards the truth and if so, is that biased? It's an interesting philosophical question.

What I want to know is if the other two bloggers ever met the family friend before they all joined forces on this podcast, because I think the other two listened to serial and got curious and dug into the evidence and started finding things helpful to Adnan's defense and then was contacted by Rabia, the family frend.

Looks like they didn't know anything about Adnan before they started blogging about Serial. They joined Rabia to this podcast because their own reading of the trial evidence convinced them, not only that the state didn't prove its case, but that Adnan was innocent.


http://viewfromll2.com/2014/11/23/serial-a-comparison-of-adnans-cell-phone-records-and-the-witness-statements-provided-by-adnan-jay-jenn-and-cathy/

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evidenceprof/2014/11/today-my-colleagueclaire-rajtold-me-about-theserial-podcast-according-to-itunesserialis-a-new-podcast-from-the-creators-of.html

[ballup]

Stop putting out semantics Kevin. It's clearly biased no matter if Adnan is guilty or innocent. They clearly state at the end of each episode that all donations go to Adman's defense trust. There is a whole lot of finger pointing by Rabia and crew at everyone but Adnan.

Adnan getting freed doesn't reveal the truth. Even if foresenics point out who killed HML, it doesn't reveal how the events truely unfolded, what Adnan was doing if he didn't do it and why Jay accuses Adnan of doing it, and why there is so much oddities in the investigation.

[KevinNYC]

Stop putting out semantics Kevin. It's clearly biased no matter if Adnan is guilty or innocent. They clearly state at the end of each episode that all donations go to Adman's defense trust. There is a whole lot of finger pointing by Rabia and crew at everyone but Adnan.

Adnan getting freed doesn't reveal the truth. Even if foresenics point out who killed HML, it doesn't reveal how the events truely unfolded, what Adnan was doing if he didn't do it and why Jay accuses Adnan of doing it, and why there is so much oddities in the investigation.
I'm making an argument based on word choice, because I think you're using the wrong word. If you believe something one way based on the evidence that is not being biased.

[B]bi

[ballup]

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]I'm making an argument based on word choice, because I think you're using the wrong word. If you believe something one way based on the evidence that is not being biased.

[B]bi

[KevinNYC]

They clearly are unfairly prejudiced for Adnan seeing how little they give credit, the benefit of the doubt, or side with Jay/Baltimore PD. You don't need to prejudge something to be biased, you just have to be initially on one side.

How do you be initially on one side without being biased?

Unfairly prejucided? Benefit of the doubt? Jay clearly lied and lied and lied and lied some more. By his own admisssion. Under oath. Perjured himself. Bore false witness against someone in a murder case. He's worthy of the benefit of the doubt? That still applies the fifth and sixth time he changes his story?

Baltimore PD? They couldn't see the Jay was lying and lying lying? Jay also confessed to being an accessory after the fact to a murder. Did he spend a single day in jail for it?
They claim to seek the truth in the murder of HML, but they wouldn't be doing the same if Adnan wasn't convicted in the first place.

[ballup]

How do you be initially on one side without being biased?

Unfairly prejucided? Benefit of the doubt. Jay clearly lied and lied and lied and lied some more. By his own admisssion. Under oath. Perjured himself. Bore false witness against someone in a murder case. He's worthy of the benefit of the doubt? That still applies the fifth and sixth time he changes his story?

Baltimore PD? They couldn't see the Jay was lying and lying lying? Jay also confessed to being an accessory after the fact to a murder. Did he spend a single day in jail for it?
It comes hand in hand.

Serial's Sarah K. was actually partial. She didn't hide the possibility that Adnan did it and Jay is telling some sort of the truth. At one point, Adnan flipped his shit and hung up on her when she brings up the accusations of him stealing money from his Mosque. Rabia and crew, on the other hand, keep hammering everyone but Adnan. It doesn't matter if you think Jay is a lying sack of crap, he has his own perspective and allowing him to show it is the more unbiased thing to do than whatever Rabia is doing.

From what I remember, Jay served a probation in exchange for his witness testimony.

[KevinNYC]

They claim to seek the truth in the murder of HML, but they wouldn't be doing the same if Adnan wasn't convicted in the first place.

So what are you even arguing here?

Yeah, two of them never would have heard of Adnan if it wasn't for Serial and Serial would have never happened if Adnan was convicted. Neither you are I would be discussing it either? Does that mean their motives aren't pure? They can't be concerned about an injustice if they also solve the case?


It doesn't matter if you think Jay is a lying sack of crap, he has his own perspective and allowing him to show it is the more unbiased thing to do than whatever Rabia is doing. So if Jay is a lying sack of crap and I want to get to truth I have to show his perspective? What?
You keep forgetting there's two other lawyers on the podcast and they keep using what Jay said to impeach his story.


You're right Jay was on probation for two years, but never spent a day in jail.

[ballup]

So what are you even arguing here?

Yeah, two of them never would have heard of Adnan if it wasn't for Serial and Serial would have never happened if Adnan was convicted. Neither you are I would be discussing it either? Does that mean their motives aren't pure? They can't be concerned about an injustice if they also solve the case?

So if Jay is a lying sack of crap and I want to get to truth I have to show his perspective? What?
You keep forgetting there's two other lawyers on the podcast and they keep using what Jay said to impeach his story.


You're right Jay was on probation for two years, but never spent a day in jail.
Is there a point to me arguing this? Even everyone in the Serial subreddit claims Undisclosed is heavily biased. How you can't see the blatant evidence is baffling. Let's say Adnan was not convicted of the murder in the first place and Serial still made an extremely popular podcast about the mystery. You still think Rabia and Co would make Undisclosed?

Being impartial requires you to take on all sides and consider their possibility of being true. Not just dissect and bash them like what happens in Undisclosed.

[LJJ]

That Rabia girl is crazy.

[outbreak]

Is there a point to me arguing this? Even everyone in the Serial subreddit claims Undisclosed is heavily biased. How you can't see the blatant evidence is baffling. Let's say Adnan was not convicted of the murder in the first place and Serial still made an extremely popular podcast about the mystery. You still think Rabia and Co would make Undisclosed?

Being impartial requires you to take on all sides and consider their possibility of being true. Not just dissect and bash them like what happens in Undisclosed.
I had heard undisclosed was more a promotional tool to try and help Adnan in his new trial then revealing any new unbiased info. It's goal isn't to solve who did it, it's to make adnan look innocent.

[oh the horror]

That Rabia girl is crazy.



She's def a pit bull in terms of now she approaches law it would seem

[Long Duck Dong]

His conviction will be vacated by the DA on Wednesday and he will be set free after 23 years in jail