The Perfect Salary for Happiness: $75,000

[ALBballer]

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-75000-a-year/

Location is obviously a factor but the number seems about right. At 75k you don't have to worry about monthly bills assuming your spending habits are not out of control and in most part of the country you can live a good middle-class life.

[DCL]

highly disagree.

too low.

maybe in a third world country.

[Akrazotile]

Depends laregly on what kinda work youre doing too.

[bluechox2]

75k in pocket change is nice, as a salary...cant even feed yo family

[DCL]

it's like hearing a kid say the perfect allowance for happiness is $100.

$100 may be more than enough for a little kid, but sooner or later, he or she is gonna realize, fk man, this ain't shit. can't even buy a playstation.

same thing with 75K salary. might be appealing to a young single person whose current salary is half of that. but as he gets older, have a family, have one or several kids, that 75K ain't shit. AND when he figures out retirement planning and the need to save a few to put into longterm planning, that 75K is easily depleted after taxes, basic expenses, child care, and all that shit.

[Patrick Chewing]

I make 60K :(

[DCL]

that's why u don't have kids

well, i guess it's also age-related too.

if you make 75K as an 18 year old, you are probably in cloud 9 heaven.

but yeah, once family and kids enter the equation, new things will quickly come drain your salary at a different level.

[Akrazotile]

it's like hearing a kid say the perfect allowance for happiness is $100.

$100 may be more than enough for a little kid, but sooner or later, he or she is gonna realize, fk man, this ain't shit. can't even buy a playstation.

same thing with 75K salary. might be appealing to a young single person whose current salary is half of that. but as he gets older, have a family, have one or several kids, that 75K ain't shit. AND when he figures out retirement planning and the need to save a few to put into longterm planning, that 75K is easily depleted after taxes, basic expenses, child care, and all that shit.


Yeah but these days most people who make 75k are probably gonna marry someone who's making a decent income as well.

[sundizz]

Simple math:

SF 1 bedroom apartment: $2,700
Utilities/parking: $300
Car insurance: $150
Car payment: $300
Gas: $175
Student loan payment: $200
Meals: $400
Gym membership: $50

$4,275 of monthly bill. This doesn't even take into account any entertainment spending, and any other random bills (like a hospital visit/vaca, car maintenance).

Let's say $5,000 to cover base + any minor unexpected stuff. You would need to make $60k after taxes just to have a very low middle class life. It really makes living with others/getting married/having a 2nd owner worth it tenfold in a big city. That tax benefit you get from marrying a broad is literally money.

[Shade8780]

You're telling me you'd rather make $75k a year than $100m a year?

[knickballer]

If you can't like on 75k/yr then you need to re-evaluate your spending habits..

[DCL]

If you can't like on 75k/yr then you need to re-evaluate your spending habits..


of course, you can live and survive on that amount, and even less than that figure, but i wouldn't call it "perfect salary for happiness."

check out sundizz's breakdown. that's just very basic stuff without even factoring any fun.

fun = happy, and fun costs money. :oldlol:

[bigkingsfan]

Living with parents = endless happiness

[Patrick Chewing]

Simple math:

SF 1 bedroom apartment: $2,700



Uhhh that's the problem right there. Move to the suburbs.

[GimmeThat]

I'm pretty sure the term you are looking for

is "ball of dough"

[hookul]

I think the only reason why $75K seems like the perfect salary is because when you get into the six figure salary and million-plus, you're more likely to be in charge of hundreds and thousands of people along with the assets and budget of that company and even investors too.


Ding ding ding...this is it. I moved up in my salary to some 6 figures in the meantime but my personal life is really suffering. So much work, a lot of responsibility and troubleshooting and rarely at home before 7pm which leaves pretty much no time for anything other than eating dinner and relaxing a bit on the couch with my girlfriend. Plus I am travelling quite a bit so I am gone from home abou 15 weekends a year whre I have to work. All the things I was able to do...going on hikes, visiting friends etc. is all lost now despite accumulating quite some money. I keep reminding myself that this will enable me to have a good and safe life in the future also for my family...but in essence I am trying to justify trading my present happyness for future potential happyness. But really not sure anymore of this is a smart trade-off.

[hookul]

Uhhh that's the problem right there. Move to the suburbs.

That's also not always the solution. I could for example move to the suburbs and probably save about 1000 USD a month on rent (I'd spent a bit more for fuel but that does not really matter). What matters more is that I would spend about 1h more per day in the car every day...that's 1h a day for the rest of my worklife that I do not get back. On the contrary, it would make me much more stressed (traffic jams etc.). Lost life for me and one has to calculate how much money is this worth.

[ALBballer]

Simple math:

SF 1 bedroom apartment: $2,700
Utilities/parking: $300
Car insurance: $150
Car payment: $300
Gas: $175
Student loan payment: $200
Meals: $400
Gym membership: $50

$4,275 of monthly bill. This doesn't even take into account any entertainment spending, and any other random bills (like a hospital visit/vaca, car maintenance).

Let's say $5,000 to cover base + any minor unexpected stuff. You would need to make $60k after taxes just to have a very low middle class life. It really makes living with others/getting married/having a 2nd owner worth it tenfold in a big city. That tax benefit you get from marrying a broad is literally money.

Places like San Fran, NYC, Washington DC are outliers.

The average household income in the United States is somewhere around $50k.

[Bandito]

Ding ding ding...this is it. I moved up in my salary to some 6 figures in the meantime but my personal life is really suffering. So much work, a lot of responsibility and troubleshooting and rarely at home before 7pm which leaves pretty much no time for anything other than eating dinner and relaxing a bit on the couch with my girlfriend. Plus I am travelling quite a bit so I am gone from home abou 15 weekends a year whre I have to work. All the things I was able to do...going on hikes, visiting friends etc. is all lost now despite accumulating quite some money. I keep reminding myself that this will enable me to have a good and safe life in the future also for my family...but in essence I am trying to justify trading my present happyness for future potential happyness. But really not sure anymore of this is a smart trade-off.
I would be perfectly happy living off 60,000 if I am promised to only have an 7-5 day of work and weekends. People think having a six figure salary doesn't come with sacrifices.

[DeuceWallaces]

75K with a wife making at least 45K is more than enough for a family of 3-4 outside of top 5 markets. Outside of traveling the world every month you'll be able to do most whatever you want while saving adequately.

[DCL]

Well don't fvkin do those things dum dum


ok, but what about guitar lessons for little johnny? and braces for cindy? will you let her keep her crooked teeth or go fix it? you can't do that yourself with pliers in the garage though.

[BigTicket]

I make around $75k, and I think the study is mostly right.

I'm obviously not rich, but I feel like I have enough money to do the things I want to do, and not have to worry about day to day stuff. At the same time I don't have so much money that people try to mooch of me.

Obviously I wouldn't turn down a raise, but it wouldn't make much difference in my life either.

[Bandito]

ok, but what about guitar lessons for little johnny? and braces for cindy? will you let her keep her crooked teeth or go fix it? you can't do that yourself with pliers in the garage though.
Why should he get guitar lessons? I won't force him to do anything he has to do. Heck I learn how to play the trumpet because I wanted to play it, not because I was forced too.

[DCL]

I make around $75k, and I think the study is mostly right.

I'm obviously not rich, but I feel like I have enough money to do the things I want to do, and not have to worry about day to day stuff. At the same time I don't have so much money that people try to mooch of me.

Obviously I wouldn't turn down a raise, but it wouldn't make much difference in my life either.

how much do you save each month for retirement? have you considered how much you need after you stop working? i think you'd appreciate the difference a lot more if you were concentrated in building your nest egg and threw that extra money in there. lot of old folks are about to retire or have retired and have little saved up to last the next 5, let alone 10, 20, or 30 years. they never planned ahead. you might not think a higher income makes any difference to you right now, but would a $300,000 vs a couple million in retirement savings make a difference to you when you stop working for good? that's gonna be a factor that determines one's happiness later on. trust me.

[DeuceWallaces]

how much do you save each month for retirement? have you considered how much you need after you stop working? i think you'd appreciate the difference a lot more if you were concentrated in building your nest egg and threw that extra money in there. lot of old folks are about to retire or have retired and have little saved up to last the next 5, let alone 10, 20, or 30 years. they never planned ahead. you might not think a higher income makes any difference to you right now, but would a $300,000 vs a couple million in retirement savings make a difference to you when you stop working for good? that's gonna be a factor that determines one's happiness later on. trust me.

You can easily do that on 75K.

[BigTicket]

how much do you save each month for retirement? have you considered how much you need after you stop working? i think you'd appreciate the difference a lot more if you were concentrated in building your nest egg and threw that extra money in there. lot of old folks are about to retire or have retired and have little saved up to last the next 5, let alone 10, 20, or 30 years. they never planned ahead. you might not think a higher income makes any difference to you right now, but would a $300,000 vs a couple million in retirement savings make a difference to you when you stop working for good? that's gonna be a factor that determines one's happiness later on. trust me.

Yes I know more money will make a difference when I get retired, that's why I save up $10k+ per year, on top of the retirement account I have.

Again I am not saying more money wouldn't be nice, but it's not going to make much difference in my happiness now.

[DCL]

You can easily do that on 75K.

i wouldn't say easily, but one might have to cut back a bit.

to me, i think a salary of happiness is one that lets one do almost anythin he wants during his working years AND also lets him save enough in the nest egg for comfortable financially stress-free living in the post-working years.

i don't think 75k does that. not for me, at least.

[BigTicket]

i wouldn't say easily, but one might have to cut back a bit.

to me, i think a salary of happiness is one that lets one do almost anythin he wants during his working years AND also lets him save enough in the nest egg for comfortable financially stress-free living in the post-working years.

i don't think 75k does that. not for me, at least.

Obviously it depends on where you live, as some expenses like housing can vary a lot.

[Bandito]

i wouldn't say easily, but one might have to cut back a bit.

to me, i think a salary of happiness is one that lets one do almost anythin he wants during his working years AND also lets him save enough in the nest egg for comfortable financially stress-free living in the post-working years.

i don't think 75k does that. not for me, at least.
Then stop paying for that Mercedes and buy a Honda and save that money you would pay for that Mercedes in a retirement fund.

[DCL]

Then stop paying for that Mercedes and buy a Honda and save that money you would pay for that Mercedes in a retirement fund.

i don't drive a mercedes.

but your point is to sacrifice now so one can live and enjoy it later. that works, but is that really happiness if a guy in his 20s, 30s, 40s have to endure that sacrificial period first? if he has to wait till 60-something to finally enjoy a good life, he missed out on the prime years.

if one has to do that, then i don't think it's a salary of happiness. to me, a true salary of happiness should afford one to live in the moment AND also in the future when he's done with working for good. with all other things equal, i think a guy with that life is happier than the guy who had to make sacrifices throughout his youth and prime.

[Bandito]

i don't drive a mercedes.

but your point is to sacrifice now so one can live and enjoy it later. that works, but is that really happiness if a guy in his 20s, 30s, 40s have to endure that sacrificial period first? if he has to wait till 60-something to finally enjoy a good life, he missed out on the prime years.

if one has to do that, then i don't think it's a salary of happiness. to me, a true salary of happiness should afford one to live in the moment AND also in the future when he's done with working for good. with all other things equal, i think a guy with that life is happier than the guy who had to make sacrifices throughout his youth and prime.
It depends on the person. For me driving a Mercedes is not happiness is just a waste of money. I am not one that likes to fvcks strangers or show off to strangers so for me driving a Yaris is fine as long as the car works fine.

Also in order to get that 75 thou a year the person would have to make sacrifices because a job like that is going to ask for a lot of time in the job probably. For me sacrificing that time in a meaningless job instead of just being at my house doing what I like, or just going to the gym is just way worse than not having a Mercedes. That's what I mean by sacrifices. Sacrifices like that are good, but in reality everyone wants the expensive clothes, the 1000$ Iphones and 50 thou++ cars let's be honest.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Only constant is change.

We gonna need a much stronger idealogy/philosophy than f*cking happiness to bring out the best in Mankind.

[DeuceWallaces]

Lol, my idea of sacrifice is not trading in a Mercedes for my Ford Fusion.

[JohnnySic]

$75K is more than enough for a single person, unless they are massive idiots and do something idiotic like rent a 1 bedroom apartment for $2,700 month.

For a married person looking to raise a family, perhaps not (depends on where you live) but most couples are duel income and a combined salary of say $120k is enough to live comfortably in most areas.

[ALBballer]

^Anywhere in the states minus NYC, LA, Boston, San Fran, Seattle, D.C. metropolitan areas and maybe even Chicago too. Also Hawaii.

75k will amount to around 55k after taxes depending on the state. 55k amounts to around $4,600/month and general rule is housing costs should amount to 25-30% of your take home pay which would be around $1,400/month. $1,400 is doable for most cities.

[Fawker]

75K is enough for married with children in California.

[kenuffff]

single guy here, made 75k before now i make 6 figures. i'd like to make as much as humanly possible. that's just me though. im never sastified with where i am, i want more, and to be better, if you're like "welp i have 75k a year now, im set!" you're a loser.

[DCL]

single guy here, made 75k before now i make 6 figures. i'd like to make as much as humanly possible. that's just me though. im never sastified with where i am, i want more, and to be better, if you're like "welp i have 75k a year now, im set!" you're a loser.

:applause:

[knickballer]

of course, you can live and survive on that amount, and even less than that figure, but i wouldn't call it "perfect salary for happiness."

check out sundizz's breakdown. that's just very basic stuff without even factoring any fun.

fun = happy, and fun costs money. :oldlol:

Living in an apartment that costs $2,700/month(doesn't include utilities/parking either) is not "very basic". I understand he probably lives in or near a downtown in a major market but he's still overpaying to the max and those apartments aren't probably meant for individuals like him. I live in the NYC area and he can probably get an apartment in Manhattan for that same price which is one of the most expensive housing markets in the world. Again, he's living out of his means and in an apartment he has no business living in.


For most people 75k is too little for them because they are accustomed to spending. They are used to eating out every other night, going to bars for daily drinks and buying goods they don't need(Shoes, shirts, etc)

I do understand if you are married and have kids. That's another story..

[DCL]

Living in an apartment that costs $2,700/month(doesn't include utilities/parking either) is not "very basic". I understand he probably lives in or near a downtown in a major market but he's still overpaying to the max and those apartments aren't probably meant for individuals like him. I live in the NYC area and he can probably get an apartment in Manhattan for that same price which is one of the most expensive housing markets in the world. Again, he's living out of his means and in an apartment he has no business living in.


For most people 75k is too little for them because they are accustomed to spending. They are used to eating out every other night, going to bars for daily drinks and buying goods they don't need(Shoes, shirts, etc)

I do understand if you are married and have kids. That's another story..


i think the debate is more about "if 75k is the perfecr salary of happiness" instead of "can a dude live on 75k???"

of course, every single dude or even families can live on 75k. many, including myself, have even survived on much less amounts (inflation adjusted) during our college and early years. but the question is if it's the salary that maxizes happiness and my response is a resounding no. not even close.

as for sundizz, only he can answer for himself. but if i take a stab at it, sure, he can obviously save some mobey by living away in the suburbs with several roommates. maybe he can even get rid if his car too to save parking and gas.

but then it comes back to the original debate. is it the perfect salary of happness if he has to do all those things? i dont have to ask sundizz but i think we can guess his answer.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Simple math:

SF 1 bedroom apartment: $2,700
Utilities/parking: $300
Car insurance: $150
Car payment: $300
Gas: $175
Student loan payment: $200
Meals: $400
Gym membership: $50

$4,275 of monthly bill. This doesn't even take into account any entertainment spending, and any other random bills (like a hospital visit/vaca, car maintenance).

Let's say $5,000 to cover base + any minor unexpected stuff. You would need to make $60k after taxes just to have a very low middle class life. It really makes living with others/getting married/having a 2nd owner worth it tenfold in a big city. That tax benefit you get from marrying a broad is literally money.

So don't stay in SF then...tf I look like paying 2.7k for a one bedroom apartment, get yourself a nice 3 bed appartment here in Clearwater for around 800/month. And some of us don't have student loans to pay off, we already payed off the school. 75k is more than a decent salary, isn't the median in the US like 40,000ish? And that's counting the top 10%, take them away and the average American is making well under 40g's a year.

[sundizz]

So don't stay in SF then...tf I look like paying 2.7k for a one bedroom apartment, get yourself a nice 3 bed appartment here in Clearwater for around 800/month. And some of us don't have student loans to pay off, we already payed off the school. 75k is more than a decent salary, isn't the median in the US like 40,000ish? And that's counting the top 10%, take them away and the average American is making well under 40g's a year.

I would be much happier living in SF. And no, you can't live "happily" there for 75k. It's just the simple economic truth of the matter.

The statement is just a blanket statement, and the actual value should of course be adjusted for geography.

However, the concept is nonsense to me because some people are content with what they have in life, and some people simply aren't. I always want moar. Moar girls, more money, more wtv. Doesn't mean i'm not happy...just means I'm not content.

The misconception about this stupid quote is that money stops mattering at a certain point. That's bs that poor people tell themselves. Money in itself is nothing - but the drive to earn money = passion for life. It'd be like saying 20 minutes of bball is enough to get the daily exercise you need. Yeah, maybe that's true...but who the hell wouldn't want to play more if it is there passion. As you get older, earning money becomes that passion for many successful people.

[JohnnySic]

single guy here, made 75k before now i make 6 figures. i'd like to make as much as humanly possible. that's just me though. im never sastified with where i am, i want more, and to be better, if you're like "welp i have 75k a year now, im set!" you're a loser.
I'll happily take 75K to work 40 hrs and have time for fun, working out, family, etc, than 150K to work 80 hours and run myself into the ground. But that's just me.

[kamil]

it's like hearing a kid say the perfect allowance for happiness is $100.

$100 may be more than enough for a little kid, but sooner or later, he or she is gonna realize, fk man, this ain't shit. can't even buy a playstation.

same thing with 75K salary. might be appealing to a young single person whose current salary is half of that. but as he gets older, have a family, have one or several kids, that 75K ain't shit. AND when he figures out retirement planning and the need to save a few to put into longterm planning, that 75K is easily depleted after taxes, basic expenses, child care, and all that shit.

That's why your woman needs to put in her share. 75k x 2 is plenty to support a family.

[sundizz]

DC is the most expensive city in america and I live here happily for far less than 75K so you're wrong and really bad at simple economics dum dum.


Get a cheaper place to live. If you aren't happy unless you have a nice apartment to yourself yr a cvnt and you don't deserve happiness

:cheers: glad you are happy.

I put in hard work with undergrad, and grad school. I'll put in long hours at work. My definition of happy is being able to afford a 1 bedroom apartment to come home and relax in. I don't think that's ballin or something...that rent isn't even for a good 1 bedroom...it's for a shizzy hole in the wall. Of course I could pay less and share a place, but as a grown man I don't want to be dealing with roommates. If I wanted that I could just live at home with my rents and not pay any rent.

So in short go fck yourself...

If you ever have a medical emergency for you/loved one you'll realize how desperate and shizzy your "happy salary" will make you feel because you can't help them when they need it the most. Life isn't about making yourself happy anyways...beta mentality. It's about being a provider for the people in your life you care about.

[Dresta]

Only constant is change.

We gonna need a much stronger idealogy/philosophy than f*cking happiness to bring out the best in Mankind.
:applause:

Good man.

The philosophy of happiness has led to an epidemic of anxiety and depression and other mental diseases - success! All it's tended to do has been increase needless introspection and self-indulgence ('am i happy?') and also the need for instant and constant gratification/stimulation (gotta stay 'happy'). It's an extremely narrow-minded form of Utilitarianism, and definitely needs to be scrapped (though it won't be until circumstances force people to live less comfortably).

The morality/philosophy of the age tends to mimic the circumstances of that specific era. For example, the philosophies of Christianity and Stoicism both grew up and thrived among enslaved populations, for the very reason that they provided a system of philosophy that was comforting to people who were enslaved - it justified their lives and otherwise pitiable existences. Likewise, in the world of today, where most are surrounding by size, noise, steel and machines, where God is AWOL, the numinous and transcendent increasingly absent, 'happiness' provides a nice ideal that people can rally around and clamour for. Psychologists, the state, and the pharmaceutical industry, have combined over the past century to cultivate this idea and image of happiness and mental wellbeing.

Just take a cursory glance at internet dating profiles and they're all things like 'I am outgoing, full of life, and fun' or 'i am fun and adventurous', and so on. Most present a false image of themselves to the world, one more positive and optimistic than they actually are, which only tends to make those who don't get anything from this ideology of happiness feel abnormal, and so many seek mental health, despite there being nothing wrong with them. And once you've handed yourself over to mental health treatment there's little chance of escape, as their methods make you completely dependent on them, like a little child. The ideology causes a clear degradation of humanity as a whole as it saturates the mind, but also alienates what are probably humanities more intelligent members, who cannot buy into such a superficial philosophy. It's a concerted attack on those who think differently, as it actually seeks to classify them as having 'personality disorders' despite their simply expressing regular human characteristics to varying degrees. But then this is nothing new: mass opinion has always been and probably always will remain several centuries behind the most advanced thinkers of their era.


I consider Stoicism a far more noble means of dealing with enslavement than Christianity btw. The Stoics were estimable in many ways, but it only makes sense to apply their philosophy to losing struggles. Christians didn't know their place and instead wreaked a horrific revenge on all that was superior to their primitivism, retarding mankind many centuries.