Who would you rather have on your team? D.Rose or S. Curry?

[Tarik One]

Who would you take?

[red1]

no brainer

[navy]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02710/Curry_2710104b.jpg

[Akrazotile]

Immediatley checked the date of the thread.




Date: Today


:crazysam:

[Mr. Jabbar]

if we are talking healthy mvp year rose; curry.

[turret]

D Rose or one of the Brandon's


Curry is a higher tier

[Rose'sACL]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02710/Curry_2710104b.jpg
now i'm hungry. i hate indian food but only the next morning. The taste is so godly.

[Prometheus]

if we are talking healthy mvp year rose; curry.

:oldlol:

[waseem780]

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs45/i/2009/082/1/2/Rose_Stock_by_BreAnn.png

VS

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02710/Curry_2710104b.jpg

[Inferno]

if we are talking healthy mvp year rose; curry.

:roll:

[hawksdogsbraves]

This year? Joke of a question.

Prime healthy MVP Rose vs. this year's Curry?

Curry 100% of the time.

It's not even a contest.

[LoneyROY7]

if we are talking healthy mvp year rose; curry.

:lol

Well played sir.

Give me Chef Curry with the pot. MVP Rose continues to be underrated though.

[noob cake]

Curry now >>> Rose

Curry now >>> MVP Rose

MVP Rose wasn't even MVP his year. He was way behind LeBron, Dwight in terms of impact. Statistically, he was behind Wade, Love, Bryant, Paul, Durant and Westbrook statistically (PER).

[SamuraiSWISH]

If Derrick never got injured, definitely him.

[Heavincent]

Steph is currently better than Rose ever was.

[Genaro]

Steph is currently better than Rose ever was.
This.
And if he keeps that up he may have his own MVP when the season ends.

[swagga]

the one that won't go 6% on 3pters.

[MavsSuperFan]

Its not even close at this point. Curry by a mile

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02710/Curry_2710104b.jpg
It would hurt my asshole but it would be worth it.
Yes homo

[fragokota]

if we are talking healthy mvp year rose; curry.

:roll: :roll:

[smoovegittar]

Curry in every aspect - especially demeanor. My team may suck, but if I was a Bulls fan I would be sick of Rose's uncertainty.

Now imagine if Curry played with the Bulls -

[DamnMixes]

Oh boy

You take the guy that's healthy, doing amazing things, and doesn't rely on his athleticism any day of the week.

[plowking]

Oh boy

You take the guy that's healthy, doing amazing things, and doesn't rely on his athleticism any day of the week.

My answer is Curry, but the highlighted is BS and so worn out.

He is athletic... What is he supposed to do? Not use his abilities?

[Pointguard]

Right now I'm not so sure whom I would take over Curry, in the regular season outside of Durant/Lebron/Davis. I think the question is rather dumb, (who compares a healthy guy to an injured guy?) and it evades the better question of Curry vs Westbrook. But hey, it does get attention!

To the people here talking about impact and relying on athleticism, healthy Rose was one of a few players that could take the offensive load himself and win two rounds in the playoffs. Curry, Mello, Chris Paul even prime Wade its not something that all great players have proven they can do. Having teams focus on you for 95 to 100 games a year and keep going at teams in the third round is something very few players can do. Tmac was a lot better than Curry will ever be and it didn't happen for him either. Rose always made the playoffs and always won games on his back against the best defensive teams, even as a rookie. We don't really know if Curry has the mentality to keep taking it at teams, ala Rose/Westbrook.

If you gave Westbrook or Rose a ton of space, and a very open game, I think they would be significantly better than Curry offensively.

[Pointguard]

Curry now >>> Rose

Curry now >>> MVP Rose

MVP Rose wasn't even MVP his year. He was way behind LeBron, Dwight in terms of impact. Statistically, he was behind Wade, Love, Bryant, Paul, Durant and Westbrook statistically (PER).
Rose against elite teams, much more impact than Lebron or Dwight. Rose in important games for playoff seedings, much more impact than Lebron or Dwight. Rose in the fourth quarters, much more impact than Lebron or Dwight. Securing the best record, Rose much more impact.

So maybe you can show me what impact you are talking about?

[hawksdogsbraves]

Right now I'm not so sure whom I would take over Curry, in the regular season outside of Durant/Lebron/Davis. I think the question is rather dumb, (who compares a healthy guy to an injured guy?) and it evades the better question of Curry vs Westbrook. But hey, it does get attention!

To the people here talking about impact and relying on athleticism, healthy Rose was one of a few players that could take the offensive load himself and win two rounds in the playoffs. Curry, Mello, Chris Paul even prime Wade its not something that all great players have proven they can do. Having teams focus on you for 95 to 100 games a year and keep going at teams in the third round is something very few players can do. Tmac was a lot better than Curry will ever be and it didn't happen for him either. Rose always made the playoffs and always won games on his back against the best defensive teams, even as a rookie. We don't really know if Curry has the mentality to keep taking it at teams, ala Rose/Westbrook.

If you gave Westbrook or Rose a ton of space, and a very open game, I think they would be significantly better than Curry offensively.

Rose has only had ONE playoff run of note.

You think beating an inferior Pacers or Hawks team in 2011 makes him some sort of playoff warrior? He 'carried' the Bulls to series wins over two vastly inferior teams and then got his shit packed in by the Heat in a series where he shot 35% from the field.

Rose doesn't have this history of elite playoff performances that you're pretending he does, even though the imaginary notion that he is a 'playoff performer' is the only way a Rose fan can pretend he's better than Curry.

[DMAVS41]

Steph is currently better than Rose ever was.

This.

[Lebronxrings]

Westbrook

[DMAVS41]

Right now I'm not so sure whom I would take over Curry, in the regular season outside of Durant/Lebron/Davis. I think the question is rather dumb, (who compares a healthy guy to an injured guy?) and it evades the better question of Curry vs Westbrook. But hey, it does get attention!

To the people here talking about impact and relying on athleticism, healthy Rose was one of a few players that could take the offensive load himself and win two rounds in the playoffs. Curry, Mello, Chris Paul even prime Wade its not something that all great players have proven they can do. Having teams focus on you for 95 to 100 games a year and keep going at teams in the third round is something very few players can do. Tmac was a lot better than Curry will ever be and it didn't happen for him either. Rose always made the playoffs and always won games on his back against the best defensive teams, even as a rookie. We don't really know if Curry has the mentality to keep taking it at teams, ala Rose/Westbrook.

If you gave Westbrook or Rose a ton of space, and a very open game, I think they would be significantly better than Curry offensively.


Significantly better than Curry offensively...I want everyone to take the time to think about how absurd and stupid that statement really is.

Stephen Curry is a 24/4/8 61% TS player with an ortg of 117....he's been this player for roughly 3 years now.

So significantly better than that? On stats alone it would be impossible, but when you start factoring in the Curry is a better passer....and his...to use a new term in the basketball world..."gravity"....don't even begin to see his true value in the stats.

So what? Rose and WB are going to be 30/7/7 60% TS players with more space? Because that is what it would take...and honestly I'm not sure if I would even consider that significantly better given Curry's impact off the ball is far greater offensively and he's just a better passer.

[ballinhun8]

This.


Is Wrong.

[Pointguard]

[/B]
Significantly better than Curry offensively...I want everyone to take the time to think about how absurd and stupid that statement really is.

Stephen Curry is a 24/4/8 61% TS player with an ortg of 117....he's been this player for roughly 3 years now.

Westbrook was better offensively in the playoffs than Curry last year. In a more open offense with him getting carte blanche, he would be somehow be worse? Tell me with all of your blessed stupidity how that works???

:lol


So significantly better than that? On stats alone it would be impossible, but when you start factoring in the Curry is a better passer....and his...to use a new term in the basketball world..."gravity"....don't even begin to see his true value in the stats.
I used the term gravity on these boards in my first year here and on other boards before that. But I used it in a much more meaningful way than the way I see it these days. But Westbrook had way more intangibles than Curry did in the playoffs. It was obvious as hell. And when they needed Westbrook he got them what they needed. That's how you can be better. Its a concept that everybody sees and knows, but you can't understand concepts.



So what? Rose and WB are going to be 30/7/7 60% TS players with more space? Because that is what it would take...and honestly I'm not sure if I would even consider that significantly better given Curry's impact off the ball is far greater offensively and he's just a better passer.
You are doing things by stats, because you can't trust your eyes or ability to process your own knowledge. I would much more rather take a player that can score, lead and control a game than a stat monster.

26ppg 12.5rebs 59TS%
15ppg 9.7rebs 53TS%

Everybody on this board would take the second player last year even if their defense was the same. And player number 1 has better gravity stats as well. Stats are not everything but you can't process anything without them. Its sad.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Immediatley checked the date of the thread.




Date: Today


:crazysam:
This.

[Pointguard]

Rose has only had ONE playoff run of note.

You think beating an inferior Pacers or Hawks team in 2011 makes him some sort of playoff warrior? He 'carried' the Bulls to series wins over two vastly inferior teams and then got his shit packed in by the Heat in a series where he shot 35% from the field.

Rose doesn't have this history of elite playoff performances that you're pretending he does, even though the imaginary notion that he is a 'playoff performer' is the only way a Rose fan can pretend he's better than Curry.
:lol 1 simple question.
Name me 5 other players in the history of the game that did what Rose did at 22 years of age by winning two playoff series on his back? I rest my case.

At 20 he hit seven clutch shots in his first playoff series. I think he tied a record for a rookie high in their first playoff game - against world champions who had one of the best perimeter defenses in the league.

I never said he was some magical performer. But its obvious that he's mastered playing well in that time of season from the beginning.

[bizil]

A healthy Rose vs. a healthy Curry is a toss up. It might actually come down to a matter of taste. Rose has done more with less than Westbrook or Curry have so far. In terms of the team around them. Three years ago, I would have told you Rose over Steph with NO HESITATION. But Steph gets better and better every year. So for me, its like the old school Bird vs. Magic argument. U can go either way.

[hawksdogsbraves]

:lol 1 simple question.
Name me 5 other players in the history of the game that did what Rose did at 22 years of age by winning two playoff series on his back? I rest my case.

At 20 he hit seven clutch shots in his first playoff series. I think he tied a record for a rookie high in their first playoff game - against world champions who had one of the best perimeter defenses in the league.

I never said he was some magical performer. But its obvious that he's mastered playing well in that time of season from the beginning.

They were playing teams much worse than them in the Pacers and Hawks, those were series the Bulls were expected to win easily.

First tough team they run into and they're bounced in 5 games. Since then he hasn't even been able to make it into the playoffs while healthy.

[nathanjizzle]

MVP Rose is greater than this years curry and its not that hard to see. "mvp" curry didnt even outplay a broke down passive derrick rose. :facepalm :biggums:

[DMAVS41]

Westbrook was better offensively in the playoffs than Curry last year. In a more open offense with him getting carte blanche, he would be somehow be worse? Tell me with all of your blessed stupidity how that works???

:lol

I used the term gravity on these boards in my first year here and on other boards before that. But I used it in a much more meaningful way than the way I see it these days. But Westbrook had way more intangibles than Curry did in the playoffs. It was obvious as hell. And when they needed Westbrook he got them what they needed. That's how you can be better. Its a concept that everybody sees and knows, but you can't understand concepts.


You are doing things by stats, because you can't trust your eyes or ability to process your own knowledge. I would much more rather take a player that can score, lead and control a game than a stat monster.

26ppg 12.5rebs 59TS%
15ppg 9.7rebs 53TS%

Everybody on this board would take the second player last year even if their defense was the same. And player number 1 has better gravity stats as well. Stats are not everything but you can't process anything without them. Its sad.


Laughable....we are only talking offense. That's it.

And when a pg is a better passer, shooter, is more efficient....and is far better off the ball....there is simply no way you can get "significantly better"

The stats just represent what anyone with a semblance of objectivity knows.

Sad? Tell me how WB or Rose would be significantly better than Curry on offense...please. Tell me how all of a sudden their efficiency is going to go through the rough or that they'll make the kind of passes that Curry can...or that they'll learn to shoot as well or be as big of a danger off the ball.

You talked out of your ass, as usual (it's sad)...and now you are stuck defending a position that makes no sense.


Also, who said WB would be worse? I simply said that in no world do you get WB or Rose ever being "significantly better" on offense than Curry.

It's also priceless that you accuse everyone else about using stats (which is a good thing by the way...because people like you talk out of your ass too much), but ultimately all you care about is ppg. That's the reason you'd lean towards Rose or WB...they are more selfish than Curry and will take more shots to score more points.

The truth is you are the biggest stat whore of all...and only care about the worst one....ppg.

I actually do think WB is a better overall player than Curry, but "significantly better" on offense is just absurd. You see "stats"...and shut down...but it's just reality. Go look at offensive rating, offensive rapm, efficiency overall, points off and on...etc. Hell, go actually watch the damn games without such a horrible bias in favor of Rose...you'll learn a lot...I promise. The idea that WB and Rose are significantly better is absurd. I'll totally concede that it's close either way at all their peaks, but you have a lot in front of you to prove significantly better.

The problem with people like you is that you are unable to realize you are biased. Hint...we all are. We all have certain styles of play and players we innately prefer. However, that doesn't mean that is the right way to play. It's about which teams / players produce the best results. And the result is pretty obvious that Rose and WB have never been nor ever could be "significantly better" offensively than Curry. In fact, all the data and eye test supports Curry being the clear cut best offensive player of the 3 going forward. But you obviously just love ball dominant guys...so clear...and really sad because you miss so much of the true offensive impact of guys like Thompson or Dirk or Bird or Curry or Ray Allen or Reggie Miller...etc. Sad...

[Legends66NBA7]

Who would you take?

I would prefer my PG's to be good jump shooters especially from 3 (much like Kyle does for the Raptors, along with his overall game) so it's hard to not take Curry who is an amazing shooter. He scores on better efficiency and is still get his share of assists. Curry could end up as the all-time 3 point leader if he just stays healthy.

[DMAVS41]

:lol 1 simple question.
Name me 5 other players in the history of the game that did what Rose did at 22 years of age by winning two playoff series on his back? I rest my case.

At 20 he hit seven clutch shots in his first playoff series. I think he tied a record for a rookie high in their first playoff game - against world champions who had one of the best perimeter defenses in the league.

I never said he was some magical performer. But its obvious that he's mastered playing well in that time of season from the beginning.

Nobody cares how old he was. You aren't grading on a curve when you say he was better than Lebron or Wade or Howard or Kobe or Dirk...etc. You just say he was better.

You are comparing 11 Rose to the 2011 version of those players.

You continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth and when it suits you...you jump back to the safe ground of invoking Rose's age.

Pathetic dude.

[Pointguard]

They were playing teams much worse than them in the Pacers and Hawks, those were series the Bulls were expected to win easily.

First tough team they run into and they're bounced in 5 games. Since then he hasn't even been able to make it into the playoffs while healthy.

So Dwight had, as you say, "He (Rose) was way behind Dwight in terms of impact." and Atlanta demolishes Orlando, but when Rose beats Atlanta they weren't that good. So who has more impact?" The only time Orlando handled Atlanta was when DH had a whopping 8 point 8 rebound game! The guy you picked for super impact, Rose was at least two levels better then. Can't have it both ways. AND Indiana was a very solid defensive team.

Rose has playoff record in the first game he played, and it was against the champions, and he won two games on his back against them.

[DMAVS41]

So Dwight had, as you say, "He (Rose) was way behind Dwight in terms of impact." and Atlanta demolishes Orlando, but when Rose beats Atlanta they weren't that good. So who has more impact?" The only time Orlando handled Atlanta was when DH had a whopping 8 point 8 rebound game! The guy you picked for super impact, Rose was at least two levels better then. Can't have it both ways. AND Indiana was a very solid defensive team.

Rose has playoff record in the first game he played, and it was against the champions, and he won two games on his back against them.

So are you comparing Rose and Howard on equal grounds in the 11 season? Or are you saying that Rose gets extra points for being younger?

Please clear this up once and for all.

We need to know if you are factoring in age here like Rose should get extra points...

[mehyaM24]

So are you comparing Rose and Howard on equal grounds in the 11 season? Or are you saying that Rose gets extra points for being younger?

Please clear this up once and for all.

We need to know if you are factoring in age here like Rose should get extra points...
seems like a reocurring theme with you and pointguard. you bring in ALL the facts and set your biases aside, while he just posts about (defending) his favorite players.

rose significantly better than offense....? cringe worthy shit right there.

i would also like to point out, that we should wait until his season is at nears end to make claims like "curry is currently playing better than rose ever has". lets see if this continues and whether or not he'll raise his level of play in the postseason.

[Legends66NBA7]

i would also like to point out, that we should wait until his season is at nears end to make claims like "curry is currently playing better than rose ever has". lets see if this continues and whether or not he'll raise his level of play in the postseason.

^This is true too.

[DMAVS41]

seems like a reocurring theme with you and pointguard. you bring in ALL the facts and set your biases aside, while he just posts about (defending) his favorite players.

rose significantly better than offense....? cringe worthy shit right there.

i would also like to point out, that we should wait until his season is at nears end to make claims like "curry is currently playing better than rose ever has". lets see if this continues and whether or not he'll raise his level of play in the postseason.

Well, and it's just my opinion, I thought Curry was better last year than Rose ever was. We saw a whole year, including playoffs, and I'd take Curry.

This year, so far (you are right to ask for patience), Curry has only widened that gap in my opinion.

But yea..."significantly better"...nonsense (and he knows it...he's just doing this to argue with people because he's so mad about how shitty Rose looks so far this season)

[Pointguard]

Laughable....we are only talking offense. That's it.

And when a pg is a better passer, shooter, is more efficient....and is far better off the ball....there is simply no way you can get "significantly better"

Simple question. Who was better last year in the playoffs?
Curry is a better shooter and more efficient and a better passer. But who took over the games? Who showed more will-power? Who was more likely to win the game?



Sad? Tell me how WB or Rose would be significantly better than Curry on offense...please. Tell me how all of a sudden their efficiency is going to go through the rough or that they'll make the kind of passes that Curry can...or that they'll learn to shoot as well or be as big of a danger off the ball.
See above.


You talked out of your ass, as usual (it's sad)...and now you are stuck defending a position that makes no sense.

What are you talking about? Your dumbazz jumped in out of nowhere saying "look at how stupid this is..." sited some more stupid stats, and now are backing up. Who took over the games? Who showed more will-power? Who was more likely to win the game?



Also, who said WB would be worse? I simply said that in no world do you get WB or Rose ever being "significantly better" on offense than Curry.
I'll help you out. WestBrook was definitely better than Curry in the playoffs without being given the full green light, without the team having consistent shooting or the team playing a wide open game. You give WB, advantages he isn't going to be "just better," but significantly better.


It's also priceless that you accuse everyone else about using stats (which is a good thing by the way... No I only do it to you. Keep backing up, punk.


because people like you talk out of your ass too much), but ultimately all you care about is ppg.
"Will power, leadership, taking over the game, keep coming at you, energize his teammates, flipping leads, etc." Riiiight. I only talk about the things that win games.


That's the reason you'd lean towards Rose or WB...they are more selfish than Curry and will take more shots to score more points.
They take more shots to win more games.



The truth is you are the biggest stat whore of all...and only care about the worst one....ppg.
Where did I use ppg??? I didn't use it at all??? F'in weirdo. Stop making shif up.


I actually do think WB is a better overall player than Curry, but "significantly better" on offense is just absurd. You see "stats"...and shut down...but it's just reality. Go look at offensive rating, offensive rapm, efficiency overall, points off and on...etc. Hell, go actually watch the damn games without such a horrible bias in favor of Rose...you'll learn a lot...I promise.
I haven't been talking about Rose, idiot. And I have barely used a stat in my conversation with you. I intentionally have avoided using Rose cause I know you are stuck on stupid and will go there.


The problem with people like you is that you are unable to realize you are biased. Hint...we all are. We all have certain styles of play and players we innately prefer. However, that doesn't mean that is the right way to play. It's about which teams / players produce the best results. And the result is pretty obvious that Rose and WB have never been nor ever could be "significantly better" offensively than Curry. In fact, all the data and eye test supports Curry being the clear cut best offensive player of the 3. But you obviously just love ball dominant guys...so clear...and really sad because you miss so much of the true offensive impact of guys like Thompson or Dirk or Bird or Curry or Ray Allen or Reggie Miller...etc. Sad...
:lol

[DMAVS41]

Simple question. Who was better last year in the playoffs?
Curry is a better shooter and more efficient and a better passer. But who took over the games? Who showed more will-power? Who was more likely to win the game?


See above.

What are you talking about? Your dumbazz jumped in out of nowhere saying "look at how stupid this is..." sited some more stupid stats, and now are backing up. Who took over the games? Who showed more will-power? Who was more likely to win the game?


I'll help you out. WestBrook was definitely better than Curry in the playoffs without being given the full green light, without the team having consistent shooting or the team playing a wide open game. You give WB, advantages he isn't going to be "just better," but significantly better.
No I only do it to you. Keep backing up, punk.

"Will power, leadership, taking over the game, keep coming at you, energize his teammates, flipping leads, etc." Riiiight. I only talk about the things that win games.

They take more shots to win more games.


Where did I use ppg??? I didn't use it at all??? F'in weirdo. Stop making shif up.

I haven't been talking about Rose, idiot. And I have barely used a stat in my conversation with you. I intentionally have avoided using Rose cause I know you are stuck on stupid and will go there.

:lol

Westbrook was better offensively in the playoffs last year in my opinion.

Was it significant? Hell the **** no. And there is a huge difference in that...and also, we aren't only talking about someone being better for like 10 games...you are saying they'd be significantly better overall. That is totally different than a player playing better in one playoff run to the 2nd round. You are claiming that WB and Rose would be significantly better offensively as players than Curry...and that means that night in night out...consistently...they'd be better. You don't get to talk about 14 games like it's your trump card. But alas...you are probably too stupid to comprehend this.

"Will power, leadership, taking over the game, keep coming at you, energize his teammates, flipping leads, etc."

Curry has a number of those qualities....you just are too biased to see. You don't think Curry takes over games, keeps coming, energizes his teammates...or flips leads? What?

[Human Error]

This year? Joke of a question.

Prime healthy MVP Rose vs. this year's Curry?

Curry 100% of the time.

It's not even a contest.
This. Derrick Rose was never as good as this year's Curry.

[hawksdogsbraves]

So Dwight had, as you say, "He (Rose) was way behind Dwight in terms of impact." and Atlanta demolishes Orlando, but when Rose beats Atlanta they weren't that good. So who has more impact?" The only time Orlando handled Atlanta was when DH had a whopping 8 point 8 rebound game! The guy you picked for super impact, Rose was at least two levels better then. Can't have it both ways. AND Indiana was a very solid defensive team.

Rose has playoff record in the first game he played, and it was against the champions, and he won two games on his back against them.

Uh I'm not arguing about Rose's MVP, I agree that Rose deserved to win it.

I'm just saying that I think current Curry is better than MVP season Rose.

[G0ATbe]

Curry. Gets hurt less, and is less likely to sitout for stupid reasons. Much better personality/player as well.

[Pointguard]

Nobody cares how old he was. You aren't grading on a curve when you say he was better than Lebron or Wade or Howard or Kobe or Dirk...etc. You just say he was better.

You are comparing 11 Rose to the 2011 version of those players.

You continue to talk out of both sides of your mouth and when it suits you...you jump back to the safe ground of invoking Rose's age.

Pathetic dude.
Basically if you are comparing Curry in his prime to Rose, you are comparing him to a 22 year old Rose. Is this too hard for you to understand? Who at 22 years old. That is the reality. You can't change that. Rose, Westbrook and Curry are all the same age. But a distinction has to be made.

[Pointguard]

seems like a reocurring theme with you and pointguard. you bring in ALL the facts and set your biases aside, while he just posts about (defending) his favorite players.
:lol All the facts? You think he is God apparently. :lol and sets all his biases aside and he doesn't even realize I'm not talking about Rose! And you don't either!!!! You're a sharp one aren't you.

[DMAVS41]

Basically if you are comparing Curry in his prime to Rose, you are comparing him to a 22 year old Rose. Is this too hard for you to understand? Who at 22 years old. That is the reality. You can't change that. Rose, Westbrook and Curry are all the same age. But a distinction has to be made.

Yea...I completely disagree.

I think this is where a lot of your problem comes. You give Rose extra points for being younger. Nobody else is thinking like that.

When we compare players...we just compare them on how good they are...we don't take the time, unless specified, to talk about how much credit we should give said player for being young or old.

Also, you rarely say this. You often just say that Rose was better than Lebron or Wade or Howard or Dirk...when in reality, it seems, you are factoring in extra points for Rose.

So again...clear it up.

Removing all ages and just focusing on how good these guys were...taking into accounts regular season and playoffs.

Was Rose the best player in 2011? Please answer and clear this up.

[EveryManALion]

I am waiting for the day I see on my fantasy news: Derrick Rose/Hangnail/Out two weeks. Curry over Rose even in his prime. Drose has a beta mentality, Curry been goin' nuts.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[DMAVS41]

PG

If we were going to compare Dirk and Kevin Love this year...and debate which player was better.

You really think Dirk should get extra points for being older? That somehow changes how good said player is on the court?

Please see the fallacy in this line of thinking.

[Pointguard]

Westbrook was better offensively in the playoffs last year in my opinion.
Yes, and then I said through in the advantages of him playing a more open game, with good shooters and the main greenlight. This is all I said from the beginning. We both agree he was better without these advantages.



"Will power, leadership, taking over the game, keep coming at you, energize his teammates, flipping leads, etc."

Curry has a number of those qualities....you just are too biased to see. You don't think Curry takes over games, keeps coming, energizes his teammates...or flips leads? What?

I like Curry and have several favorable post about him. See my first response here.

[DMAVS41]

Yes, and then I said through in the advantages of him playing a more open game, with good shooters and the main greenlight. This is all I said from the beginning. We both agree he was better without these advantages.


I like Curry and have several favorable post about him. See my first response here.

We both agree he was better in the playoffs last year. That is far from turning him into a significantly better offensive player overall...

Totally different to be better for a stretch of 15 games....than night in night out.

Also, playing with Durant is a huge advantage for WB...and I don't know what games you are watching....WB has about as green a light as a player can have.

That is kind of my point. WB plays with the best offensive player in the game and has a green light. I mean...how many shots do you think WB is taking? He took 21 shots a game last year in the playoffs. Seriously...how many shots do you see him taking in your hypothetical? Because much more than that and I don't see him getting better at all...I'd actually see him getting worse. He had a 34.8% usage in the playoffs as well...pretty damn high. Just to compare....Kobe had a 33% usage in the playoffs from 08 through 10.

So I think your point about WB not having a green light is really just false. Again...how much more possessions is WB going to use up on your hypothetical team?

[Pointguard]

Yea...I completely disagree.

I think this is where a lot of your problem comes. You give Rose extra points for being younger. Nobody else is thinking like that.

When we compare players...we just compare them on how good they are...we don't take the time, unless specified, to talk about how much credit we should give said player for being young or old.

Also, you rarely say this. You often just say that Rose was better than Lebron or Wade or Howard or Dirk...when in reality, it seems, you are factoring in extra points for Rose.

So again...clear it up.

Removing all ages and just focusing on how good these guys were...taking into accounts regular season and playoffs.

Was Rose the best player in 2011? Please answer and clear this up.
I'm not going to bring this up every thread. You have a severe obsession problem. I'm only talking Westbrook here.

Who took over the games? Who showed more will-power? Who was more likely to win the game?

[Pointguard]

We both agree he was better in the playoffs last year. That is far from turning him into a significantly better offensive player overall...

Totally different to be better for a stretch of 15 games....than night in night out.

Also, playing with Durant is a huge advantage for WB...and I don't know what games you are watching....WB has about as green a light as a player can have.

That is kind of my point. WB plays with the best offensive player in the game and has a green light. I mean...how many shots do you think WB is taking? He took 21 shots a game last year in the playoffs. Seriously...how many shots do you see him taking in your hypothetical? Because much more than that and I don't see him getting better at all...I'd actually see him getting worse. He had a 34.8% usage in the playoffs as well...pretty damn high. Just to compare....Kobe had a 33% usage in the playoffs from 08 through 10.

So I think your point about WB not having a green light is really just false. Again...how much more possessions is WB going to use up on your hypothetical team?
Durant is the man on the team. He must be fed first except when his game is off. That's not a green light. There is no such thing as a team without a priority offensively. Westbrook plays somewhat of a support game to Durant. A green light is when they support you. The path is clear.

[SamuraiSWISH]

How is Curry now better than 2011 Derrick? Their numbers are the exact same offensively, while D. Rose played on a MUCH slower paced team ... with significant less offensive talent. Defensively Derrick was still the better player even with Curry's improvements, and D. Rose was winning more games in the clutch taking over than Steph has or will have to for this ultra talented Golden State team.

[DMAVS41]

I'm not going to bring this up every thread. You have a severe obsession problem. I'm only talking Westbrook here.

Who took over the games? Who showed more will-power? Who was more likely to win the game?

I already told you that I thought WB was better in last years playoffs. But saying that Curry had better circumstances last year is absurd.

Westbrook had a far bigger green light and objectively more help around him.

And even then...WB was not "significantly better"...and we are just talking a handful of games.

Which was not your point...you said he'd be "significantly better" as a player. And that just doesn't track with reality.

Also, have you taken the time to actually look at this stuff? Like...do you realize that WB has a much greener light than Curry ever has? WB uses up far more possessions for himself than Curry does. Did you know that?

[DMAVS41]

Durant is the man on the team. He must be fed first except when his game is off. That's not a green light. There is no such thing as a team without a priority offensively. Westbrook plays somewhat of a support game to Durant. A green light is when they support you. The path is clear.

LOL...you have not watched the Thunder. Calling someone that has a 35% usage rate a support player is absurd.

You yet again talk out of your ass.

[DMAVS41]

How is Curry now better than 2011 Derrick? Their numbers are the exact same offensively, while D. Rose played on a MUCH slower paced team ... with significant less offensive talent. Defensively Derrick was still the better player even with Curry's improvements, and D. Rose was winning more games in the clutch taking over than Steph has or will have to for this ultra talented Golden State team.

63.4 and 55 percent TS are far from exactly the same.

That efficiency gap is ****ing huge.

Exactly the same numbers offensively? God damn you Rose fans are the worst.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[nathanjizzle]

63.4 and 55 percent TS are far from exactly the same.

That efficiency gap is ****ing huge.

Exactly the same numbers offensively? God damn you Rose fans are the worst.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

efficiency:bowdown: are for role players. efficiency gets you 2/5 in the finals.

offensive commanders dont have the luxury of efficiency homie unless there name is Michael jordan.

mvp efficient curry thats so much better than rose shot horrible when defended by rose, and hardly outplayed him. how can you even claim that current curry is next level compared to 2011 rose. Thats idiotic.

also. efficiency gets you 1 championship out of 12 playoff appearances

[Pointguard]

LOL...you have not watched the Thunder. Calling someone that has a 35% usage rate a support player is absurd.

You yet again talk out of your ass.
Wrong stat, idiot. Durant nearly takes 4 more shots per game last year. The obvious function is to get Durant off. The other starters support that role more than any other role. Support is a role function, not a stat, clown.

Is it too much to ask you to understand your own contentions. Really?

[nathanjizzle]

Rose has only had ONE playoff run of note.

You think beating an inferior Pacers or Hawks team in 2011 makes him some sort of playoff warrior? He 'carried' the Bulls to series wins over two vastly inferior teams and then got his shit packed in by the Heat in a series where he shot 35% from the field.

Rose doesn't have this history of elite playoff performances that you're pretending he does, even though the imaginary notion that he is a 'playoff performer' is the only way a Rose fan can pretend he's better than Curry.

:biggums: 2008, rose tied the most points for a rookie in first playoff game. 36 points, 11 assists, four rebounds, tied with kareem abdul jabbar :biggums:

rose even dropped 44 points against the hawks in the second round :biggums:

everyone treats rose as if hes been around for 10 years. hes had 3 healthy seasons.

[Legends66NBA7]

efficiency:bowdown: are for role players.

No, not really.

[SamuraiSWISH]

63.4 and 55 percent TS are far from exactly the same.
True Shooting Percentage, with the inclusion of free throw percentage is how you determine 2015 Curry to be vastly superior basketball player to 2011 D. Rose?

:oldlol:

This isn't money ball. And you're not Jonah Hill. Seeing basketball strictly through a statistical landscape is fool's gold. You've used context, eye test and intelligence in combonation with stats before when comparing players.

Yet why do you lose all sense of rationality when talking about Derrick Rose? You've always presented yourself as a flat out, bitter hater. Probably due to the fact Rose won 2011 MVP over Dirk's last truly great eason.

The real story is

2011 D. Rose 25 ppg, 8 apg, 4 rpg on 45% FG. 23rd offensive pace.
2015 Steph Curry 23 ppg, 8 apg, 6 rpg on 49% FG. 1st offensive pace.

Mind the fact that offensively Curry has way more consistent talent around him. So how is that significantly better than MVP Derrick Rose? A faster pace opens up easier, and higher percentage shot for Steph as well.

Derrick was just in his 3rd season too. But somehow the clowns come out the wood work and retroactively down grade Derrick's season, and prop up Curry's current over it when it's only the FIRST WEEK of December.

:facepalm

[hawksdogsbraves]

:biggums: 2008, rose tied the most points for a rookie in first playoff game. 36 points, 11 assists, four rebounds, tied with kareem abdul jabbar :biggums:

rose even dropped 44 points against the hawks in the second round :biggums:

everyone treats rose as if hes been around for 10 years. hes had 3 healthy seasons.

Yeah great stats, Rose is (was) a great player, but he's never accomplished anything of actual note in the playoffs.

I don't see how you can use his playoff 'accomplishments' as the ultimate proof to say he's better than somebody like Curry when they add up to one ECF appearance and some good statlines.

The fact that he can't stay healthy contributes to how good of a career he has.

[nathanjizzle]

Yeah great stats, Rose is (was) a great player, but he's never accomplished anything of actual note in the playoffs.

I don't see how you can use his playoff 'accomplishments' as the ultimate proof to say he's better than somebody like Curry when they add up to one ECF appearance and some good statlines.

The fact that he can't stay healthy contributes to how good of a career he has.

breh, ive never used roses playoff performances to proove anything, but to disprove that he "hasnt done anything" in the playoffs. No one expects a player to do anything in their first 3 years anyway do they? was rose supposedly suppose to lead the bulls past the heat in his 3rd year? :facepalm

[Pointguard]

efficiency:bowdown: are for role players. efficiency gets you 2/5 in the finals.

You have to admit that Lebron killed that TS% (close to 700%) high %eFG unlike anybody in recent memory in the finals. Combined it with a high usage percentage, a stat freaks real live fantasy guy. Heck the whole playoffs was a stat freaks dream. Definitely not one of his best playoffs. Just couldn't make himself have impact. Was efficient though.

[Pointguard]

True Shooting Percentage, with the inclusion of free throw percentage is how you determine 2015 Curry to be vastly superior basketball player to 2011 D. Rose?

:oldlol:

This isn't money ball. And you're not Jonah Hill. Seeing basketball strictly through a statistical landscape is fool's gold. You've used context, eye test and intelligence in combonation with stats before when comparing players.

Yet why do you lose all sense of rationality when talking about Derrick Rose? You've always presented yourself as a flat out, bitter hater. Probably due to the fact Rose won 2011 MVP over Dirk's last truly great eason.

The real story is

2011 D. Rose 25 ppg, 8 apg, 4 rpg on 45% FG. 23rd offensive pace.
2015 Steph Curry 23 ppg, 8 apg, 6 rpg on 49% FG. 1st offensive pace.

Mind the fact that offensively Curry has way more consistent talent around him. So how is that significantly better than MVP Derrick Rose? A faster pace opens up easier, and higher percentage shot for Steph as well.

Derrick was just in his 3rd season too. But somehow the clowns come out the wood work and retroactively down grade Derrick's season, and prop up Curry's current over it when it's only the FIRST WEEK of December.

:facepalm
Good Post! I didn't know Curry's ppg were under 25. He's actually at 5 rebounds per game, not six. He has way more opportunities for assist with better scorers and shooters as well as a hyped pace.

[Pointguard]

As well as better opportunities for himself period. Run and gun, open spot up threes, spacing, more weapons to defend than the 2011 Bulls. Derrick's Bulls were a way less dynamic offense, slower pace, and predominantly a half court basketball team. That all plays apart in the equation.

I'm not even claiming as a Chicagoan, and Bulls fan that Derrick was better than Curry is this year. I think they're around equal. Curry is more efficient, partly due to offensive context, but Derrick put up his numbers in a more difficult offensive climate, and with less help.

The main reason Derrick won MVP was because he took over more games in the clutch to save Chicago, and put his team on his back in order to win the 62 games they ended up winning. Which they had no business doing.

Anyone claiming either, particularly only 2014 December Steph Curry being better than full 82 game, 2011 MVP Derrick Rose have pure agenda. Pure bias. And frankly don't know what they're talking about if they are being serious.

See DMAVS41, etc. Wait a second...
TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% ROSETS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% ROSE TS% TS% TS% TS% Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%

Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%

Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%

Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wait a second...
TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% ROSETS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% ROSE TS% TS% TS% TS% Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%

Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%

Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%

Rose TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%TS% TS% TS% TS% TS% TS%
TS is remedial ... just an attempt to boost efficiency. Look at James Harden this year for proof. He's horrendous from the floor, but when he gets to the line he shots 85 - 90 percent from the foul line.

Why does he get to the foul line? Who determines that? It isn't James Harden.

Defended Field Goal Attempts combined with FREE THROW percentage. That's TS. It makes no sense.

Players get to the line for a multitude of reasons. It's a part of the game that isn't in the offensive player's control totally. Sure they can be savvy in drawing fouls, but it still isn't up to them.

The defender, and referees facilitate getting to the foul line. Not to mention getting there for flagarant fouls, technical fouls, etc. There is no reason it should be combined with FG or 3FGA in order to measure any kind of offensive efficiency.

It's dumb. Plain and simple. An oversimplification by geeks with calculators.

[mehyaM24]

rose is playing not so great, but again, dont expect that the entire year. for 19 games, i do feel curry has been slightly better than rose during his mvp season....the key of course is consistency.

OT - but ive always felt curry's game was built on today's lenient perimeter rules. sure there may be more SKILLED players today (imo TOP TO BOTTOM it isnt even close) but INTURN, it has made some of these soft ass chuckers, unstoppable.

i saw curry (and tim duncan years back) look completely average against international competition - where the rules allow you to play physical.

[Ariza4three]

Thanks to these Bulls fans I can now see the issues with Chicago's education system first hand. Truly horrific.

[mehyaM24]

whats wrong with TS%? all it does is add FTs and 3PTers into perspective. too many idiots on here parrot FG% without looking at the scorers TOTAL efficiency - if and WHEN they went to the line, they were efficient in doing so.

[Pointguard]

TS is remedial ... just an attempt to boost efficiency. Look at James Harden this year for proof. He's horrendous from the floor, but when he gets to the line he shots 85 - 90 percent from the foul line.

Why does he get to the foul line? Who determines that? It isn't James Harden.

Defended Field Goal Attempts combined with FREE THROW percentage. That's TS. It makes no sense.

Players get to the line for a multitude of reasons. It's a part of the game that isn't in the offensive player's control totally. Sure they can be savvy in drawing fouls, but it still isn't up to them.

The defender, and referees facilitate getting to the foul line. Not to mention getting there for flagarant fouls, technical fouls, etc. There is no reason it should be combined with FG or 3FGA in order to measure any kind of offensive efficiency.

It's dumb. Plain and simple. An oversimplification by geeks with calculators.
Wells said again. The foul calling thing is really weird. Carmello gets no calls at all. Durant and James Harden get mystery fouls galore. Its like a different game is being called between them and Mello. The Cavs get calls - one the few times you will a player/team in the Eastern Conference get calls.

[Cali Syndicate]

mvp efficient curry thats so much better than rose shot horrible when defended by rose, and hardly outplayed him. how can you even claim that current curry is next level compared to 2011 rose. Thats idiotic.

Go look at how curry massively outplayed rose both times in 2011. Your point is moot.

[brandonislegend]

if we are talking healthy mvp year rose; curry.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Legends66NBA7]

The real story is

2011 D. Rose 25 ppg, 8 apg, 4 rpg on 45% FG. 23rd offensive pace.
2015 Steph Curry 23 ppg, 8 apg, 6 rpg on 49% FG. 1st offensive pace.

Even if you don't follow TS% and took out free throws, you can still see the difference in the 2pt% and 3pt% (overall fg%) of both Rose and Curry. Curry takes about 7.5 3's (40.8%) a game and 11 Rose took 4.5 3's (33.2%) a game. If I factored their entire careers as scorers, Curry is just more efficient jump shooter and still maintains a higher fg% despite taking so many 3's. That's really hard to pull off as a perimeter player.

Now off course, he would have to maintain it for the whole season. I don't think he really can (if he did, would be amazing), but he's shown that he's very capable offensive player.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Even if you don't follow TS% and took out free throws, you can still see the difference in the 2pt% and 3pt% (overall fg%) of both Rose and Curry. Curry takes about 7.5 3's (40.8%) a game and 11 Rose took 4.5 3's (33.2%) a game. If I factored their entire careers as scorers, Curry is just more efficient jump shooter and still maintains a higher fg% despite taking so many 3's. That's really hard to pull off as a perimeter player.

Now off course, he would have to maintain it for the whole season. I don't think he really can (if he did, would be amazing), but he's shown that he's very capable offensive player.
He's a better shooter than Derrick, clearly. Are you also factoring in scoring climate, defensive attention as it pertains to other weapons on the floor, as well as pace? Curry being a more efficient shooter validates the these 'tards who thinks current Steph Curry is on "another level" compared to 2011 MVP Derrick Rose as a basketball player. Or are you one of these idiots as well?

[Legends66NBA7]

He's a better shooter than Derrick, clearly. Are you also factoring in scoring climate, defensive attention as it pertains to other weapons on the floor, as well as pace? Curry being a more efficient shooter validates the these 'tards who thinks current Steph Curry is on "another level" compared to 2011 MVP Derrick Rose as a basketball player. Or are you one of these idiots as well?

I never said he was on another level. I said in my first post I would prefer Curry on my team because of his shooting and overall all around ability. Also, Curry needs to maintain it regardless.

Let's put an example the Raptors (which was what my first post was about) need to pick between Curry and Rose since there's no Kyle Lowry and the current roster is still intact... I would definitely take Curry because I know the personal of the roster needs more than just 1 3 point shooter on the starting unit. And since Curry has lead the league in 3 point shooting 3 years in a row it makes all the more obvious to take him.

[Pointguard]

Go look at how curry massively outplayed rose both times in 2011. Your point is moot.
Rose won the first matchup. Rose had a plus minus of +31. in a blowout win
Rose 22/13 on 59%FG reb 3
Curry 17/6 on 39% reb 3

Curry won the second matchup. Rose had a plus minus of -5. In a 11 point game for GS.
Rose 14/10 on 40% reb3
Curry 23/8 on 60% reb 6

The numbers were nearly inverted offensively. Rose getting more assist in both contest but it just looked like both players had jet lag.

[Pointguard]

I never said he was on another level. I said in my first post I would prefer Curry on my team because of his shooting and overall all around ability. Also, Curry needs to maintain it regardless.

Let's put an example the Raptors (which was what my first post was about) need to pick between Curry and Rose since there's no Kyle Lowry and the current roster is still intact... I would definitely take Curry because I know the personal of the roster needs more than just 1 3 point shooter on the starting unit. And since Curry has lead the league in 3 point shooting 3 years in a row it makes all the more obvious to take him.
Noooo. Toronto plays a slower possession game. a very controlled game. Rose controls the ball as good as any player in the game.

For threes they have Vasquez, Lou Williams, and Terrance Ross all shot 4 per game with Paterson shooting 3 per game. True Lowery takes about 5 per game a little less than Rose. But with Rose their main players are shooting threes like GSW main players. They wouldn't need more of that because they can't sustain a game like that or win out East like that. More important they have a need for a complimentary player like Rose. The better teams have a mix of players. Not all shooters.

[Legends66NBA7]

Toronto plays a slower possession game. a very controlled game.

Doesn't mean Curry can't play that way. The coaching staff already wants the team to push the pace more and more. I've seen every game, they always want the team pushing when they get a stop. It's been a big difference since the Rudy Gay trade (before the trade they ranked last in pace) and want to continue playing up tempo because it works and have talented wings that can score in transition.


For threes they have Vasquez, Lou Williams, and Terrance Ross all shot 4 per game with Paterson shooting 3 per game. True Lowery takes about 5 per game a little less than Rose. But with Rose their main players are shooting threes like GSW main players. They wouldn't need more of that because they can't sustain a game like that or win out East like that. More important they have a need for a complimentary player like Rose. The better teams have a mix of players. Not all shooters.

Only Ross is a starter. Like I already said, the Raptors need more than 1 starter shooting 3's. Vasquez (only starting for an injured DeRozan), Williams, and Patterson don't start because they aren't strong defensively. Curry has improved his defense and is too good on offense to not start.

And the Raptors definitely need more 3 point shooting and all-around play at PG. They are heavily jump shooter orientated because they usually use the big men as decoys on offense.

[Pointguard]

Doesn't mean Curry can't play that way. The coaching staff already wants the team to push the pace more and more. I've seen every game, they always want the team pushing when they get a stop. It's been a big difference since the Rudy Gay trade (before the trade they ranked last in pace) and want to continue playing up tempo because it works and have talented wings that can score in transition.

Only Ross is a starter. Like I already said, the Raptors need more than 1 starter shooting 3's. Vasquez (only starting for an injured DeRozan), Williams, and Patterson don't start because they aren't strong defensively. Curry has improved his defense and is too good on offense to not start.

And the Raptors definitely need more 3 point shooting and all-around play at PG. They are heavily jump shooter orientated because they usually use the big men as decoys on offense.

Your team is middle of the pack in pace. Curry in a slower pace is lot less productive than Rose. Less scoring, less assist, less everything. And who knows if that affects other things. What do you mean by all around player? With so many players contributing and coming off the bench you need more control and leadership. Rose is a bit better than Curry in that as well.

[Bigsmoke]

Noooo. Toronto plays a slower possession game. a very controlled game. Rose controls the ball as good as any player in the game.

For threes they have Vasquez, Lou Williams, and Terrance Ross all shot 4 per game with Paterson shooting 3 per game. True Lowery takes about 5 per game a little less than Rose. But with Rose their main players are shooting threes like GSW main players. They wouldn't need more of that because they can't sustain a game like that or win out East like that. More important they have a need for a complimentary player like Rose. The better teams have a mix of players. Not all shooters.


Curry would push the tempo.

[Bigsmoke]

Thanks to these Bulls fans I can now see the issues with Chicago's education system first hand. Truly horrific.

Lol I laughed

[Legends66NBA7]

What do you mean by all around player ?

Whoever can mimic Kyle the best between the choices given. Curry can do what Kyle does and has elite 3 point shooting. Not hard a choice for me.

[hawksdogsbraves]

When we're making these comparisons here we're using healthy, 2011 MVP level Rose right?

Not the 15/5 40%fg shell of a player we see in 2014...

[Pointguard]

Whoever can mimic Kyle the best between the choices given. Curry can do what Kyle does and has elite 3 point shooting. Not hard a choice for me.OK I get it now. A lot of you just are going by Rose with Thibes. Thibes is a control freak. Rose can push the tempo. His first two years those teams ran a lot more than Thibe's team.

Rose is waaaaay faster than Curry and could do the running game very well. Thibes wanted a slow game. They run more now. But it is a misconception that Rose can't do that. He was/is the best combo of speed, quickness, explosion in a guard there is. Its waaay harder to play the slow down game. Teams aren't going to run in the PS and the shots aren't going to fall as much. Fool's gold to go that route.

Kyle is a thick fast guy that gets to the rim and do the East grind. Curry is playing this run and gun thing and still not more productive than Rose in any category. You can't play that fast out East. Rose is more of a complete player as well. He does more things well in a controlled environment, and has better natural gifts in the faster paced game. Curry is playing his game which is fast paced - thats his comfort zone. His game will likely suffer in a slower pace. Rose's game was much more efficient in a faster pace - he was shooting 49% his second year because they ran more - as good as Curry has ever shot. Efficiency has never been a big part of PG play, but Curry has no advantage if Rose is shooting like that, outside of long range shooting. Rose would most definitely be scoring more than Curry overall anyway and breaking down the defense way better..

[GimmeThat]

the victor when being called unreliable


S. Curry or Steve Nash was what this question was truly meant for

I understand.

[hawksdreamfan44]

At full health, I'm taking D-Rose. At anything less than that, I'm taking Steph.

[bizil]

Great points are being made on both sides. But if u have Rose at his best and current Steph, I just think it comes down to a matter of taste. Rose is arguably the best slashing and most freakish athletic PG ever. Of course his peer Westbrook is right there as well for that. Steph is the best shooting PG ever and has great handles.

Neither is in that classic PG mold that CP3 and Rondo are in. But in terms of dominating a game scoring, a healthy Rose, Curry, and Westbrook are the top PG's in the world. U could argue either way, but I don't think IT'S AN EASY DECISION no matter how u slice it.

[ThickassGlasses]

OK I get it now. A lot of you just are going by Rose with Thibes. Thibes is a control freak. Rose can push the tempo. His first two years those teams ran a lot more than Thibe's team.

Rose is waaaaay faster than Curry and could do the running game very well. Thibes wanted a slow game. They run more now. But it is a misconception that Rose can't do that. He was/is the best combo of speed, quickness, explosion in a guard there is. Its waaay harder to play the slow down game. Teams aren't going to run in the PS and the shots aren't going to fall as much. Fool's gold to go that route.

Kyle is a thick fast guy that gets to the rim and do the East grind. Curry is playing this run and gun thing and still not more productive than Rose in any category. You can't play that fast out East. Rose is more of a complete player as well. He does more things well in a controlled environment, and has better natural gifts in the faster paced game. Curry is playing his game which is fast paced - thats his comfort zone. His game will likely suffer in a slower pace. Rose's game was much more efficient in a faster pace - he was shooting 49% his second year because they ran more - as good as Curry has ever shot. Efficiency has never been a big part of PG play, but Curry has no advantage if Rose is shooting like that, outside of long range shooting. Rose would most definitely be scoring more than Curry overall anyway and breaking down the defense way better..

Just reading through this thread you come across as one of the most ridiculous, uneducated, least objective basketball fans of all time.

Not even Pauk would have enough time to go through all of your posts and point out every fallacy, but starting with just this particular post..

1) You assume Rose would be as good as Curry in an uptempo offense but immediately write off Curry in a slower tempo. Yet, you have no reasoning behind it other than "I think Rose is MJ in a PG body".

2) You claim Curry isn't more productive at anything yet the stats claim otherwise, then it just comes down to your opinion watching the game tape.. which is anti-objective.

3) You think Curry would struggle against the East because they play a slower pace. Again, you provide no proof or anything suggesting that to be true. The guy shoots better than anyone else in the league, and all of a sudden he would struggle against the Least? interesting.

4) Rose is a more complete player? I think a ton of people have already disagreed so again without any kind of evidence where does this come from?

5) Rose was more efficient his second year than Curry is now? Just :wtf:

6) You write off Curry's shooting ability and off ball potential as no big thing yet treat Rose's ability to get the rim with his speed/quickness as a godsend.

That is just one post in which you are trying to pass 6 OPINIONS as FACTS. Your opinion is fine, keep it share it, but if you're going to debate with someone, maybe try and provide some evidence.

On that note, my opinion is Curry by a country mile just because he is better at running an offense like a true PG, shoots much better, and is more effective not holding the ball. He is also better at Rose's strengths than Rose is at Curry's strengths. I don't think it's a very close comparison even including MVP Rose.

[DMAVS41]

Just reading through this thread you come across as one of the most ridiculous, uneducated, least objective basketball fans of all time.

Not even Pauk would have enough time to go through all of your posts and point out every fallacy, but starting with just this particular post..

1) You assume Rose would be as good as Curry in an uptempo offense but immediately write off Curry in a slower tempo. Yet, you have no reasoning behind it other than "I think Rose is MJ in a PG body".

2) You claim Curry isn't more productive at anything yet the stats claim otherwise, then it just comes down to your opinion watching the game tape.. which is anti-objective.

3) You think Curry would struggle against the East because they play a slower pace. Again, you provide no proof or anything suggesting that to be true. The guy shoots better than anyone else in the league, and all of a sudden he would struggle against the Least? interesting.

4) Rose is a more complete player? I think a ton of people have already disagreed so again without any kind of evidence where does this come from?

5) Rose was more efficient his second year than Curry is now? Just :wtf:

6) You write off Curry's shooting ability and off ball potential as no big thing yet treat Rose's ability to get the rim with his speed/quickness as a godsend.

That is just one post in which you are trying to pass 6 OPINIONS as FACTS. Your opinion is fine, keep it share it, but if you're going to debate with someone, maybe try and provide some evidence.

On that note, my opinion is Curry by a country mile just because he is better at running an offense like a true PG, shoots much better, and is more effective not holding the ball. He is also better at Rose's strengths than Rose is at Curry's strengths. I don't think it's a very close comparison even including MVP Rose.

Well said...these Rose fans really think that TS% or efg%...or just simply points per possession produced are "bad stats"....that aren't as good as the eye test.

How many games of Curry last year did everyone here watch? Like 25? Maybe 30 at the high end if you are a die hard and aren't a Warriors fan?

LOL...the sample from watching alone makes opinions borderline invalid.

[mehyaM24]

:lol All the facts? You think he is God apparently. :lol and sets all his biases aside and he doesn't even realize I'm not talking about Rose! And you don't either!!!! You're a sharp one aren't you.
not one, but 2 people calling you out for your nonsense. maybe its time you start providing evidence to your claims? just a suggestion.

[hateraid]

Well said...these Rose fans really think that TS% or efg%...or just simply points per possession produced are "bad stats"....that aren't as good as the eye test.

How many games of Curry last year did everyone here watch? Like 25? Maybe 30 at the high end if you are a die hard and aren't a Warriors fan?

LOL...the sample from watching alone makes opinions borderline invalid.

The same can be said either way....
Your sentiments are obviously slighted so:

1- It's the reason you agree with the post
2- You've probably been exposed to a sample size of the other player

[Legends66NBA7]

OK I get it now. A lot of you just are going by Rose with Thibes

Nah, infact I've already said several times that I prefer Curry as an all-around player and his elite 3 point shooting makes it an easy choice. Doesn't matter what system or pace they play at, it would work great for the Raptors current personnel.

[DMAVS41]

The same can be said either way....
Your sentiments are obviously slighted so:

1- It's the reason you agree with the post
2- You've probably been exposed to a sample size of the other player

Not really...since I'm not ignoring all objective measures in favor of my own subjectivity riddled with cliches....

It's the exact opposite.

[Pointguard]

Just reading through this thread you come across as one of the most ridiculous, uneducated, least objective basketball fans of all time.

Not even Pauk would have enough time to go through all of your posts and point out every fallacy, but starting with just this particular post..

1) You assume Rose would be as good as Curry in an uptempo offense but immediately write off Curry in a slower tempo. Yet, you have no reasoning behind it other than "I think Rose is MJ in a PG body".

I never said anything about MJ at all. Are you ok??? Fix your glasses. And can you read. I stated four reasons??? His comfort level? Less opportunities? Less wide open type of game? Its a harder game to play. ???


2) You claim Curry isn't more productive at anything yet the stats claim otherwise, then it just comes down to your opinion watching the game tape.. which is anti-objective. Do you know what productive means? This year is being compared to Rose's 2011. Rose scored more and had more assist. Your go??? Show us something. I didn’t have to provide the stats because Samurai Swish and NathanJizzle already provided that. But that involves literacy and understanding numbers on your part.

3) You think Curry would struggle against the East because they play a slower pace. Again, you provide no proof or anything suggesting that to be true. The guy shoots better than anyone else in the league, and all of a sudden he would struggle against the Least? interesting.
Usually guys with glasses can read. I addressed this above, because you missed it the first time. Here it is again: His comfort level would be ill at ease. He's never won at a slower pace in college or the pros. Less opportunities as the game is slower. Less wide open type of game. A slowed down game is a harder game to play. The East has had the better defensive teams for years. Do you know anything?

You are oooh for three and it's getting worse.


5) Rose was more efficient his second year than Curry is now? Just :wtf:
Now you don't know how percentages work??? I gave the figure and you are writing wtf??? You really can't read??? 49%. And you are talking about people’s education level??? You can’t read a number? That takes you out of the conceptual and mathematical arguments. How’s your education level helping you at all.


6) You write off Curry's shooting ability and off ball potential as no big thing yet treat Rose's ability to get the rim with his speed/quickness as a godsend.

Please post where I said this. I never wrote off Curry's shooting ability. And I never used any comparison between those qualities. You are aware that this is your opinion of what I did and nothing else. But you continue:


That is just one post in which you are trying to pass 6 OPINIONS as FACTS. Your opinion is fine, keep it share it, but if you're going to debate with someone, maybe try and provide some evidence.

Did you bump your head??? Question number 1)is about reasons. You missed at least 4 of them. That has nothing to do with opinions or facts. Number 2 is again your ignorance in not following the thread. SamuraiSwish and NathanJizzle had already provided the production numbers. 3) Is your inability to read the reasons for number 1.

The rest obviously have nothing whatsoever to do with opinions being passed off as facts. In fact they are your opinion without any type of grounding. Or I should say your attempt at showing up how crazy you can get.


On that note, my opinion is Curry by a country mile just because he is better at running an offense like a true PG, shoots much better, and is more effective not holding the ball. He is also better at Rose's strengths than Rose is at Curry's strengths. I don't think it's a very close comparison even including MVP Rose.
I'm more concerned about your vocabulary and optician work than your opinion to be honest. But since you did... Rose is better at controlling a game, taking over a game, driving to the hoop, playoff ball,

winning games on his back, defense, team defense, penetrating, leadership, adjusting to different teams in the playoffs, adjusting to injuries, breaking down the defense, creating for others in the half court,

causing havoc and missing assignments on the defense, winning games against elite teams, keeping his team focused, reading the scouting report, is quicker, faster, more explosive, was always a winner, had the best record in the league despite losing 57 games to his second and third best players. I can go on...

[Pointguard]

Nah, infact I've already said several times that I prefer Curry as an all-around player and his elite 3 point shooting makes it an easy choice. Doesn't matter what system or pace they play at, it would work great for the Raptors current personnel.
I just ask for your reasoning and what you mean by all-around. That's all I asked for. I never asked you for what you prefer. You can make a blank statement about anybody being an all around player and expect it to fly. Its a very reasonable question and you keep dodging it.

[Cali Syndicate]

Rose won the first matchup. Rose had a plus minus of +31. in a blowout win
Rose 22/13 on 59%FG reb 3
Curry 17/6 on 39% reb 3

Curry won the second matchup. Rose had a plus minus of -5. In a 11 point game for GS.
Rose 14/10 on 40% reb3
Curry 23/8 on 60% reb 6

The numbers were nearly inverted offensively. Rose getting more assist in both contest but it just looked like both players had jet lag.

They played three times in the 2011 season. The game you excluded rose shot 24%. Also attach 9 turnovers for the 14/10 game for rose.

Again, significantly outplayed. Doesn't take away front he fact rose had an MVP caliber season, which was my point.

[Pointguard]

not one, but 2 people calling you out for your nonsense. maybe its time you start providing evidence to your claims? just a suggestion.
SamuraiSwish already did that. And Dmavs exited stage left when he did. If you need more please see my response to ThickassGlasses. You three are really coming up empty. And have already given up on the Westbrook argument as well.

[Legends66NBA7]

I just ask for your reasoning and what you mean by all-around. That's all I asked for. I never asked you for what you prefer. You can make a blank statement about anybody being an all around player and expect it to fly. Its a very reasonable question and you keep dodging it.

Didn't I already answer that ?

[Pointguard]

They played three times in the 2011 season. The game you excluded rose shot 24%. Also attach 9 turnovers for the 14/10 game for rose.

Again, significantly outplayed. Doesn't take away front he fact rose had an MVP caliber season, which was my point. The East and West don't play each other three times. You included the next year.

[Pointguard]

Didn't I already answer that ?
You know you didn't. I doubt I missed it.

[Legends66NBA7]

You know you didn't. I doubt I missed it.

Nah, already posted it before. That was before you posted to me.

[Pointguard]

Well said...these Rose fans really think that TS% or efg%...or just simply points per possession produced are "bad stats"....that aren't as good as the eye test.

How many games of Curry last year did everyone here watch? Like 25? Maybe 30 at the high end if you are a die hard and aren't a Warriors fan?

LOL...the sample from watching alone makes opinions borderline invalid.
Show us an example where TS% and EFG% are better than seeing the games??? That's the better question. I can show a lot of examples where TS% as the prime example is counter-productive and tells you nothing about the better players.

Lebron upped his numbers like crazy in those areas and it was the first year nearly everybody agreed he wasn't the MVP. And he should be at his absolute peak. In the finals his TS% and EFG% were among the best ever recorded for somebody super productive. He wasn't much of a factor against a team most people thought they could beat. His play a step down from years when his TS% was much lower. You call it being objective, but it can also be called being stuck on stupid.

[DMAVS41]

Show us an example where TS% and EFG% are better than seeing the games??? That's the better question. I can show a lot of examples where TS% as the prime example is counter-productive and tells you nothing about the better players.

Lebron upped his numbers like crazy in those areas and it was the first year nearly everybody agreed he wasn't the MVP. And he should be at his absolute peak. In the finals his TS% and EFG% were among the best ever recorded for somebody super productive. He wasn't much of a factor against a team most people thought they could beat. His play a step down from years when his TS% was much lower. You call it being objective, but it can also be called being stuck on stupid.

Sure.

You. You watching the games is far worse than the objective measures.

I mean...is current Kobe better than Curry offensively? If not, why not? Because I'm confused as to why that would be given all the things you've said.

I'm going to argue Kobe over Curry offensively right now. And here is how I'm going to argue it: (just like you)

"Will power, leadership, taking over the game, keep coming at you, energize his teammates, flipping leads, etc."

Give Kobe Curry's help and he'd be a significantly better offensive player.

Do you disagree? Please answer.

[Pointguard]

Sure.

You. You watching the games is far worse than the objective measures.

I mean...is current Kobe better than Curry offensively? If not, why not? Because I'm confused as to why that would be given all the things you've said.

I'm going to argue Kobe over Curry offensively right now. And here is how I'm going to argue it: (just like you)

"Will power, leadership, taking over the game, keep coming at you, energize his teammates, flipping leads, etc."

Give Kobe Curry's help and he'd be a significantly better offensive player.

Do you disagree? Please answer.
Of course, Kobe would be better. Give Kobe any good player help he would be better.

[DMAVS41]

Of course, Kobe would be better. Give Kobe any good player help he would be better.

So...just so I get this straight.

You are saying that current Kobe is a better offensive player than current Curry...assuming equal help...

Just to confirm...please answer.

[Pointguard]

So...just so I get this straight.

You are saying that current Kobe is a better offensive player than current Curry...assuming equal help...

Just to confirm...please answer.
This:Give Kobe Curry's help and he'd be a significantly better offensive player. Yes or No.

Has no logical jump to:
You are saying that current Kobe is a better offensive player than current Curry...assuming equal help...