Remember when they said SVG was too good to have the Pistons under 0.500 [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

chocolatethunder

12-06-2014, 11:36 PM

:lol :lol

Holyshit that cluster**** deserves some recognition. 3-17. One game ahead of Philly now. GOBB already getting nervous about the best odds. :roll:
Jesus Christ himself couldn't coach this shitty roster. Van Gundy's free agent signings were head scratchers to say the least. This team is so bad. If you're building around Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings you have serious problems. They need to get rid of everyone it seems.

KG215

12-06-2014, 11:39 PM

And they just lost to the 76ers...at home. How are they this bad?

Lakers_Kobe_Fan

12-06-2014, 11:45 PM

:lol :lol

Holyshit that cluster**** deserves some recognition. 3-17. One game ahead of Philly now. GOBB already getting nervous about the best odds. :roll:

overrated scumbag....paid 6mil to meeks and 4.5 to butler...

lol nobody would have paid butler more then vet min but he got 4.5 mil

lol

Rake2204

12-07-2014, 12:01 AM

Jesus Christ himself couldn't coach this shitty roster. Van Gundy's free agent signings were head scratchers to say the least. This team is so bad. If you're building around Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings you have serious problems. They need to get rid of everyone it seems.I didn't mind most of Van Gundy's signings. With the little room they had, I think he was trying to start the formation of his own team, knowing full well there were still old remnants that would eventually need to be disposed of.

But I agree with the majority of your premise. I don't think there's a single coach that could do too much with this squad. There's that saying about "You can lead a horse to water..." Van Gundy can teach these guys up however he wants, but he can't walk out onto the court and make the layups for them.

I know the problems run deep, but the Pistons have a very simple one, maybe above all else: they can't shoot well. It's been pretty incredible watching players trying to make layups inside. I'm not sure I've seen anything like it.

ProfessorMurder

12-07-2014, 12:03 AM

Jennings isn't a true PG.
Smif plays inefficiently.
Monroe is most likely frustrated.
Drummond isn't exactly a polished player.

= Bad team. :confusedshrug:

andremiller07

12-07-2014, 03:47 AM

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 03:56 AM

They got one decent/good player in Monroe who's growth they have ruined by teaming him with Drummond (who is useless) and Smith. They traded away a decent SF in Middleton (who they would love to have now) and Knight (who Pistons fans were shitting all over for years) for Jennings.

Cannot believe they did not build around Monroe.......instead he's going to leave these scrubs and the one solid building block they had will be gone.

Build around Monroe? You build around Monroe and you're never going to sniff the playoffs. I guess the Pistons are kind of proof of that.

I'm surprised they're this bad. The Pistons should be much better than this - SVG has done a god awful job and his offseason work as GM, (Meeks anyone??) was equally horrible.

Bad times ahead for the Pistons.

andremiller07

12-07-2014, 03:58 AM

Build around Monroe? You build around Monroe and you're never going to sniff the playoffs. I guess the Pistons are kind of proof of that.

I'm surprised they're this bad. The Pistons should be much better than this - SVG has done a god awful job and his offseason work as GM, (Meeks anyone??) was equally horrible.

Bad times ahead for the Pistons.
Your suggesting to build around Drummond? I rather build around a 18/10 guy who has playmaking ability, you could do far worse than build a squad around Monroe in the East that's a playoff team. Monroe at his best in the right situation is a All-Star in the Eastern Conference you can't say that about anyone else on that team in the past 4-5 years.

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 04:02 AM

Your suggesting to build around Drummond? I rather build around a 18/10 guy who has playmaking ability, you could do far worse than build a squad around Monroe in the East that's a playoff team. Monroe at his best in the right situation is a All-Star in the Eastern Conference you can't say that about anyone else on that team in the past 4-5 years.

Uh I'd much rather build around a 15/14 true C who plays good defense than an 18/10 PF who plays no defense.

Especially when said 15/14 center is 21 years old and is primed to grow his game.

The fact that he's taken a big step back this year is all on SVG, but no GM in the league would take Monroe over Drummond. They wouldn't even consider it. They'd laugh at the notion.

andremiller07

12-07-2014, 04:06 AM

Uh I'd much rather build around a 15/14 true C who plays good defense than an 18/10 PF who plays no defense.

Especially when said 15/14 center is 21 years old and is primed to grow his game.

The fact that he's taken a big step back this year is all on SVG, but no GM in the league would take Monroe over Drummond. They wouldn't even consider it. They'd laugh at the notion.
That's like saying you would take DeAndre Jordan over Blake Griffin.

Also this myth Drummond plays good defense is absolute rubbish he's easily one of the worst defensive big men currently in the NBA, other the odd blocked shot he has the reactions and IQ of Amare Stoudimire on defense.

Drummond has zero basketball IQ/skills other than catching and dunking. The moment he can't do that he automatically is a scrub. Guys like Drummond are the definition of empty stats.

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 04:12 AM

That's like saying you would take DeAndre Jordan over Blake Griffin.

Also this myth Drummond plays good defense is absolute rubbish he's easily one of the worst defensive big men currently in the NBA, other the odd blocked shot he has the reactions and IQ of Amare Stoudimire on defense.

You'd take Greg Monroe over Andre Drummond?

What are you basing this off of?

Normal stats will tell you Drummond is much more valuable, advanced stats will tell you Drummond is MUCH more valuable. The eye test will tell you whatever you want to see, but I can't imagine you've watched a lot of Pistons games, (neither have I tbh).

You can say Drummond's defense is overrated, and you may be right, but a 16/10 PF who averages less than a block per game and shoots under 50% fg is NOT somebody you want to build your team around. He might as well be Jared Sullinger.

Give me the 21 year old kid putting up 14/14 with 2bpg and a 60%fg any day of the week. I'll take my chances.

MavsSuperFan

12-07-2014, 04:13 AM

coaching in basketball is overrated

By that i mean its no where near as important as player talent

andremiller07

12-07-2014, 04:16 AM

You'd take Greg Monroe over Andre Drummond?

What are you basing this off of?

Normal stats will tell you Drummond is much more valuable, advanced stats will tell you Drummond is MUCH more valuable. The eye test will tell you whatever you want to see, but I can't imagine you've watched a lot of Pistons games, (neither have I tbh).

You can say Drummond's defense is overrated, and you may be right, but a 16/10 PF who averages less than a block per game and shoots under 50% fg is NOT somebody you want to build your team around. He might as well be Jared Sullinger.

Give me the 21 year old kid putting up 14/14 with 2bpg and a 60%fg any day of the week. I'll take my chances.
We will just ignore Monroe was averaging 4 assists per game as well and without Drummond and Smith to clog up the paint Monroe would easily be shooting over 50% while creating for himself and everyone else like he did in his first 2 seasons. How can any skilled big man function next two an idiot and a guy with zero understanding of how to do anything other than dunk. The fact you bring up Drummond FG% (grossly inflated from spoon feeds) and ignore his FT% as well is strange. Not only is Drummond a liability on defense with his slow reactions and relentless fouling but you can't even have him in the game near the end cause he's horrendous from the FT line.

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 04:16 AM

coaching in basketball is overrated

By that i mean its no where near as important as player talent

Yeah that's probably why a Spurs team featuring a 37 year old Tim Duncan as its best player just whipped the shit out of a team captained by a prime LeBron James in the NBA finals.

Magic731

12-07-2014, 04:18 AM

That's like saying you would take DeAndre Jordan over Blake Griffin.

Also this myth Drummond plays good defense is absolute rubbish he's easily one of the worst defensive big men currently in the NBA, other the odd blocked shot he has the reactions and IQ of Amare Stoudimire on defense.

Drummond has zero basketball IQ/skills other than catching and dunking. The moment he can't do that he automatically is a scrub. Guys like Drummond are the definition of empty stats.
I've seen you on Drummond's case a bit this season but I think you are really underrating him. We've seen the best and worst of Drummond throughout his short career and while his bad is bad his good is very good. He's still only 21 so still growing into his body while adapting to a new system this season. If I'm starting a team today I'm definitely taking Drummond over Monroe.

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 04:21 AM

We will just ignore Monroe was averaging 4 assists per game as well and without Drummond and Smith to clog up the paint Monroe would easily be shooting over 50% while creating for himself and everyone else like he did in his first 2 seasons. How can any skilled big man function next two an idiot and a guy with zero understanding of how to do anything other than dunk. The fact you bring up Drummond FG% (grossly inflated from spoon feeds) and ignore his FT% as well is strange as well.

I mean I agree that SVG and the Pistons' previous coaches have done a bad job of developing Drummond, but you can't teach size and you can't teach 14rpg as a 20 year old. Any competent coach would be drooling to get their hands on someone with Drummond's physical ability.

Monroe is a severely limited player, I don't see how you would ever build or even want to try to build a team around him. He could definitely perform better in a better system and get back to how he played a couple years ago, but I don't really see the point of trying to build a team around a guy like him.

andremiller07

12-07-2014, 04:23 AM

I mean I agree that SVG and the Pistons' previous coaches have done a bad job of developing Drummond, but you can't teach size and you can't teach 14rpg as a 20 year old. Any competent coach would be drooling to get their hands on someone with Drummond's physical ability.

Monroe is a severely limited player, I don't see how you would ever build or even want to try to build a team around him. He could definitely perform better in a better system and get back to how he played a couple years ago, but I don't really see the point of trying to build a team around a guy like him.
Explain I am dieing to know how a PF/C with excellent playmaking (very high IQ) ability who can fill it up in the paint (which is super rare nowdays) is "limited". He's also unselfish and can fit into a number of offences (you can run a offense through him) as well as play him off the ball.

Drummond is not limited?

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 04:31 AM

Explain I am dieing to know how a PF/C with excellent playmaking ability who can fill it up in the paint (which is super rare nowdays) is "limited". He's also unselfish and can fit into a number of offences (you can run a offense through him) as well as play him off the ball.

He's slow as hell, he doesn't fit into any up tempo style of offense. He can't shoot from midrange, (shot 36% last year from 3-10 ft and basically didn't shoot from outside 10 ft) and has zero 3 point capability, which is becoming more and more valued even from bigs these days.

So he is a pure post player, but one who can't play much defense at all. His block rate is awful, if I'm going to pay a big who can only play in the post, I surely want him to be able to defend the paing.

I do like his passing ability for sure though.

That's a fairly limited player I'd say

And Drummond is definitely limited. Incredibly limited. You're right he can't create for himself and is still raw as hell. But I'll take his potential over what Monroe has proven he can give me any day of the week.

MavsSuperFan

12-07-2014, 04:32 AM

Yeah that's probably why a Spurs team featuring a 37 year old Tim Duncan as its best player just whipped the shit out of a team captained by a prime LeBron James in the NBA finals.
Spurs have a lot of talent.

But if you want to play that game. I guess spoelstra was better than pop in 2013 and is an all time great coach for making 4 straight finals and back to back championships.

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 04:39 AM

Spurs have a lot of talent.

But if you want to play that game. I guess spoelstra was better than pop in 2013 and is an all time great coach for making 4 straight finals and back to back championships.

I'm not saying that coaching is way more important than talent, in fact I agree that talent is the most important thing, but I just think it's silly to think that coaching is overrated.

There's a reason that this Spurs team wins 60 games every season, and it isn't because they're the most talented team in the West.

andremiller07

12-07-2014, 04:41 AM

He's slow as hell, he doesn't fit into any up tempo style of offense. He can't shoot from midrange, (shot 36% last year from 3-10 ft and basically didn't shoot from outside 10 ft) and has zero 3 point capability, which is becoming more and more valued even from bigs these days.

So he is a pure post player, but one who can't play much defense at all. His block rate is awful, if I'm going to pay a big who can only play in the post, I surely want him to be able to defend the paing.

I do like his passing ability for sure though.

That's a fairly limited player I'd say

And Drummond is definitely limited. Incredibly limited. You're right he can't create for himself and is still raw as hell. But I'll take his potential over what Monroe has proven he can give me any day of the week.
Very valid points good argument but I'm sure in time Monroe will improve mid range shooting something I doubt Drummond will ever do in terms of shooting from anywhere.

A lot of the things you said about Monroe have been said about Cousins (slow, can't defend, can't block shots, inefficient chucker) for the past 3 years (plus he's a cancer and so on) and put in the right position I think he's turned out alright.

hawksdogsbraves

12-07-2014, 04:43 AM

Very valid points good argument but I'm sure in time Monroe will improve mid range shooting something I doubt Drummond will ever do in terms of shooting from anywhere.

A lot of the things you said about Monroe have been said about Cousins (slow, can't defend, can't block shots) for the past 3 years (plus he's a cancer and so on) and put in the right position I think he's turned out alright.

I actually like Monroe, I just think he and Drummond don't fit together at all. Throw Josh Smith into the mix, and you have the mess that is the Pistons. All three guys need to be in the paint to do any damage, and they can't all fit in there on the same team.

Monroe desperately needs to get out of Detroit, he could definitely thrive in a better situation.

GOBB

12-07-2014, 09:55 AM

:lol :lol

Holyshit that cluster**** deserves some recognition. 3-17. One game ahead of Philly now. GOBB already getting nervous about the best odds. :roll:

First I predidcted Sixers would beat wolves and Pistons. Second ive been called out the pistpns franchise being laughable when everyone trashed my Sixers for "tanking". None of you dipshits listened. Sixers will win some more games. Third what do you mean I'm nervous about the best odds? No I'm not. you have never seen my preach about needing the first pick in this draft class. Sixers will have two picks in the top 15-20. I'm good with that. We get pick 1 or pick 3. I'm not upset. Maybe other Sixers fans are based on prospects they really want? But for myself Sixers will have a top 4 pick no question.

Maybe come March my mind may change as I watch these kids play more but so far im not wow'd over any that I think Sixers need that top pick.