2015 Draft

[el gringos]

So yeah, I'm a realist (or a homer), whatever you call it. The west is better than the East, pretty much everybody knows it. You all wish you lived out west, nobody out west wished they lived on the east coast. Those are all known facts right?


I know you all think it's a okafor/towns/mudiay thing. But get real, no matter how bad you hope the Knicks are they aren't a top 5 pick team.


Is there anything wrong with talking about draft picks outside the top 3?


Who are the guys you are following or the guys you hope are future Knicks? Mine are

1st round
Russell Ohio st. 6--5 pg/sg. Pretty sure he is a triangle pg


Myles turner. 6-11. Pf. Yeah he's prob a top 5 pick but he is a pf and the Knicks need list includes pf


Porzingis 7-1 pf/c.


Norman Powell 6-4 pg uclA


2nd round guy

Larry nance Jr. 6-9 pf. If you already start q acy you might as well grab a bigger better version.


Pangos. 6-2. GonzAga. Would you hate prig's replacement to be 15 years younger and a great shooter?


Who are you following? Who are the future Knicks?

[knickscity]

The Knicks certainly are bad enough to get a top 3 pick, they are flat out awful.

There's other players in the draft that I think will be good nba players, but for me I'd rather focus on where the team likely will be which is top 3.

[smoovegittar]

Okafor or bust.

[el gringos]

Okafor or bust.
6-9 centers have always dominated the NBA.


You think okafor and gasol is a good pairing or have you given up on gasol?


Would you trade the #1 pick for gasol to come over on a 5 year deal?

[el gringos]

The Knicks certainly are bad enough to get a top 3 pick, they are flat out awful.

There's other players in the draft that I think will be good nba players, but for me I'd rather focus on where the team likely will be which is top 3.
A poker game w the regulars from this board would be awesome. Completely snake bitten team 20 games in and tied for 3/4 pick and you guys believe it's a lock to win a top 3 pick? IMO that's like going all in w J-10 because it's suited


I'd like to see who you think are your top 3 for the Knicks; guessing it's just the 3 that everybody has considered the top 3? (Okafor, towns, mudiay)


Even better, who do you take if you are the Knicks at #4- porzingis or Myles turner?

[smoovegittar]

6-9 centers have always dominated the NBA.


You think okafor and gasol is a good pairing or have you given up on gasol?


Would you trade the #1 pick for gasol to come over on a 5 year deal?


Why would Gasol, who's going to be 30 years old soon, come to a team in total rebuild. I did not consider the team tanking when the season began... Marc is not even an afterthought now.

It's obvious Phil Jackson is getting this team as young as he can so they have more of a chance of being "teachable". There are too many dummies on this roster.

[knickscity]

A poker game w the regulars from this board would be awesome. Completely snake bitten team 20 games in and tied for 3/4 pick and you guys believe it's a lock to win a top 3 pick? IMO that's like going all in w J-10 because it's suited


I'd like to see who you think are your top 3 for the Knicks; guessing it's just the 3 that everybody has considered the top 3? (Okafor, towns, mudiay)


Even better, who do you take if you are the Knicks at #4- porzingis or Myles turner?
if it isnt top three...trade it.

[el gringos]

Why would Gasol, who's going to be 30 years old soon, come to a team in total rebuild. I did not consider the team tanking when the season began... Marc is not even an afterthought now.

It's obvious Phil Jackson is getting this team as young as he can so they have more of a chance of being "teachable". There are too many dummies on this roster.
I love the double talk. A month ago it was a forgone conclusion that gasol would come. And you thought the team was bad and it was just a learning year. You get what you want and then become scared and think the rest won't work?

[Rameek]

I love the double talk. A month ago it was a forgone conclusion that gasol would come. And you thought the team was bad and it was just a learning year. You get what you want and then become scared and think the rest won't work?
There is no double talk he actually explained in detail why his position may have changed. Long story short..... No one anticipated this team being this terrible. I even thought this team was capable of winning up to 40 games and that doesnt seem like thats happening baring a miracle.

Since there isnt an Anthony Davis or Jabari Parker in this draft it really doesnt matter who gets picked because they will not be a game changer. I pray the team doesnt go with a defensive only player which would be a complete waste.

[el gringos]

No it is double talk. Both of you. My 2 favorites here, but stick w your guns


You are now trying to say that it's different to be bad and really bad. Would've had gasol begging to come if you finish 10th in the east. Now it's impossible if you finish 13th? I tried telling you that the Knicks have to get better now to ever expect stars to beg to come. You said it was all capspace and a city you think means something to everyone in the country

[Rameek]

No it is double talk. Both of you. My 2 favorites here, but stick w your guns


You are now trying to say that it's different to be bad and really bad. Would've had gasol begging to come if you finish 10th in the east. Now it's impossible if you finish 13th? I tried telling you that the Knicks have to get better now to ever expect stars to beg to come. You said it was all capspace and a city you think means something to everyone in the country
First of all I never said any of that bogus crap..... never referred to the city or anyone would beg to come. Dont make stuff up.

Had the team shown signs of growth and improvement with a caveat that Gasol could take the team from a 40 win team to a 50 win team contender of course it's a viable option. If anything I know you first build your own players through the draft and add missing pieces through FA or trades 2nd.

Its virtually impossible to build a winner through FA or trades solely.

[smoovegittar]

No it is double talk. Both of you. My 2 favorites here, but stick w your guns


You are now trying to say that it's different to be bad and really bad. Would've had gasol begging to come if you finish 10th in the east. Now it's impossible if you finish 13th? I tried telling you that the Knicks have to get better now to ever expect stars to beg to come. You said it was all capspace and a city you think means something to everyone in the country

We can agree to disagree... it's the mature thing to do.

[el gringos]

Its virtually impossible to build a winner through FA or trades solely. [/B]
Right the heat, celtics, pistons were all flukes. Spurs draft 4 players in 15 years and do the rest w great fa team building and picking up undervalued guys who fit. And the lakers draft 1 guy in Kobe.


The "next" teams build through drafts. Sure okc will likely get it done but if you go back through the last 15 years the other teams that were going to be the "next" never do.

[el gringos]

We can agree to disagree... it's the mature thing to do.
Mature thing is to be honest. Not cover up flip flopping. You thought the team didn't have to get any better and a superstar fa would come over for free. It was all a wasted season just to learn the system and then get almost all new guys.

[knickscity]

Right the heat, celtics, pistons were all flukes. Spurs draft 4 players in 15 years and do the rest w great fa team building and picking up undervalued guys who fit. And the lakers draft 1 guy in Kobe.


The "next" teams build through drafts. Sure okc will likely get it done but if you go back through the last 15 years the other teams that were going to be the "next" never do.
Miami doesnt even get the big three without their drafted player in Wade who had already won a ring before them.

Same with Boston and Paul Pierce...a drafted player.

Even with the Lakers, you have Kobe and the guy who kept him stable in Fisher...both drafted by them...technically. The second time around Bynum was a main piece to those finals as well, and yes he was drafted by them.

Building a solid team capable of winning relies on all the aspects.

The Pistons were a fluke, teams rarely win the way they did.

[Rameek]

Right the heat, celtics, pistons were all flukes. Spurs draft 4 players in 15 years and do the rest w great fa team building and picking up undervalued guys who fit. And the lakers draft 1 guy in Kobe.


The "next" teams build through drafts. Sure okc will likely get it done but if you go back through the last 15 years the other teams that were going to be the "next" never do.
You need to look at those teams and realize.... They had (DRAFTED) players that were desired by other teams to trade....
Did the Spurs really only draft 4 players in 15 years?:facepalm This shows you are really nuts.
The only team that you can say was maybe the Pistons and did the players they acquired were Superstars all star world beaters?
The Heat had Wade and Riley... Chalmers, Nole, Haslem, Anthony

What player did the Knicks draft and develop that was highly desired or draft that was an un-trade-able star core asset to attract other players?

[el gringos]

You need to look at those teams and realize.... They had (DRAFTED) players that were desired by other teams to trade....
Did the Spurs really only draft 4 players in 15 years?:facepalm This shows you are really nuts.
The only team that you can say was maybe the Pistons and did the players they acquired were Superstars all star world beaters?
The Heat had Wade and Riley... Chalmers, Nole, Haslem, Anthony

What player did the Knicks draft and develop that was highly desired or draft that was an un-trade-able star core asset to attract other players?
It weird that you go back and forth between talking about in trade able stars and mentioning Joel Anthony type players.


Am I missing a core player drafted by the spurs outside of td, tp, manu, and more recently Kawai leanord?


By the way: no big surprise at all that most all of you avoided talking draft prospects and instead just wanted to talk shit. Problem w naming prospects that could be undervalued or fit the Knicks well is that someone could look back and it would be listed in a thread called nba draft 2015. Why would anybody put their name on the line if you could ever look bad. Especially a fake name you made up on a website

[el gringos]

Sure the heat drafted 1 guy of their 3. But they wouldn't have been the heat without acquiring the others. All fa or trades. (outside of minor role players). Same w the celtics.


If you think Carmelo is one of those pieces why does it matter how you get the others? It's like you want to start over and pass right by the Carmelo era and start with okafor? Because it's such a lock that 6-9 centers become superstars.


Just sad to see fake names on the internet scared to stick to their stories. I stick to mine. Even when wrong. I thought Carmelo and jr fit quick into the triangle. Wrong on quickly. I think bargnani fits perfect. Injury means I'm wrong right? I think starting dalembert, acy, or amare is a terrible idea. Wrong again?


Will anybody talk draft or should we just keep this the change your story and act above thread

[Rameek]

It weird that you go back and forth between talking about in trade able stars and mentioning Joel Anthony type players.


Am I missing a core player drafted by the spurs outside of td, tp, manu, and more recently Kawai leanord?


By the way: no big surprise at all that most all of you avoided talking draft prospects and instead just wanted to talk shit. Problem w naming prospects that could be undervalued or fit the Knicks well is that someone could look back and it would be listed in a thread called nba draft 2015. Why would anybody put their name on the line if you could ever look bad. Especially a fake name you made up on a website
Can someone translate these words to this guy.... You can not trade unwanted players for stars... Most teams that trade for stars has players that are desired by other teams like potential good players or young developing potential players... Wiggins PLUS goes for Love for example.

Also in the past expiring contracts were a hot commodity as well.

There isnt a game changer in this draft. You cant predict who can fit well or not because you arent supposed to draft that way. You draft by top talent regardless of position. Its still only a month into the college season there isnt a body of work to really judge from unless you go by what other talent evaluaters has told the public.

[smoovegittar]

Mature thing is to be honest. Not cover up flip flopping. You thought the team didn't have to get any better and a superstar fa would come over for free. It was all a wasted season just to learn the system and then get almost all new guys.
I thought the team didn't have to get better? A superstar free agent to come over for free?

Honestly kid - you're delusional.

Let's take a closer look at your brilliance. You think Bargnani ( who hasn't played a lick yet - absolute garbage) and J.R. Smith are the best players on the team. You want to trade away Hardaway (who's one of the few players that show heart and attack the rim) and Larkin, who brings a ton of energy and has great upside for a bunch of no-name players from Detroit.

I believe you're just bored and trolling real NY fans with these whimsical ideas of turning the Knicks into the Bucks, or a reasonable facsimile. Then, when we get tired of responding to your nonsense, you start calling us out on our own notions. You're probably a nice guy back on your homeworld, but I've had my fill of this baloney. I'll take my hat out of this ring, and you can go back and forth with the other posters here. Au revoir!

[smoovegittar]

Can someone translate these words to this guy.... You can not trade unwanted players for stars... Most teams that trade for stars has players that are desired by other teams like potential good players or young developing potential players... Wiggins PLUS goes for Love for example.

Also in the past expiring contracts were a hot commodity as well.

There isnt a game changer in this draft. You cant predict who can fit well or not because you arent supposed to draft that way. You draft by top talent regardless of position. Its still only a month into the college season there isnt a body of work to really judge from unless you go by what other talent evaluaters has told the public.

Meh - I'm done with him. On the ignore list with countless others.,

[bluechox2]

unless theres a real stud that will get respect from melo and be given room to learn and improve and get better, we are better off at trading the pick for a solid nba player taht can contribute now or trade melo

[knickscity]

unless theres a real stud that will get respect from melo and be given room to learn and improve and get better, we are better off at trading the pick for a solid nba player taht can contribute now or trade melo
Sounds like the course should be to trade Melo. Seems like the only temmates he's had that he respects is Iverson and Billups....two guys who's played in the finals with one winning it.

If that's the only tyopes of players melo can "respect", then cut this fool loose as he hasnt won anything in this league.

[smoovegittar]

Sounds like the course should be to trade Melo. Seems like the only temmates he's had that he respects is Iverson and Billups....two guys who's played in the finals with one winning it.

If that's the only tyopes of players melo can "respect", then cut this fool loose as he hasnt won anything in this league.

More and more I'm along this line of thinking. We've seen what he can do, but this team needs to have an "All for one - one for all" attitude if it's ever going to rise to respectability. He believes he's the best, which can be a detriment. It's a shame, because he's a beast with the ball and can take over a game... very few out there that can.

[bluechox2]

More and more I'm along this line of thinking. We've seen what he can do, but this team needs to have an "All for one - one for all" attitude if it's ever going to rise to respectability. He believes he's the best, which can be a detriment. It's a shame, because he's a beast with the ball and can take over a game... very few out there that can.

its a nice thing to have and it is what i have liked about his game till now, but i expected him to gel with the other guys too, it would have been nice if he played well with others and not just try to do his own and everyone else try to patch up the rest of the game

[Rameek]

How does Kobe get away with such selfish play and win yet, Melo cant?

[Patrick Chewing]

I say draft Mudiay who can be the next Westbrook and just go hard after KD in 2016.

[Rameek]

I say draft Mudiay who can be the next Westbrook and just go hard after KD in 2016.
Dont believe everything google says

[Patrick Chewing]

Dont believe everything google says


What part do you disagree with?

[Rameek]

What part do you disagree with?
They arent the same kind of player. Westbrook is a WAAAAYYYYY better athlete!

[Patrick Chewing]

They arent the same kind of player. Westbrook is a WAAAAYYYYY better athlete!

Well that's a given because he has the NBA experience. Mudiay is just 18/19 years old. I'll take a "possible" future Westbrook any day of the week.

It sucks that KD and Westbrook are FA's in different years, making it practically impossible to get both.

[knickscity]

How does Kobe get away with such selfish play and win yet, Melo cant?
Kobe has a will to win. Yes he shoots alot, doesnt pass enough, but no one can ever question his desire to win. And he demands things from his teammates even if they suck.

melo isnt cut from that cloth.

[smoovegittar]

Kobe has a will to win. Yes he shoots alot, doesnt pass enough, but no one can ever question his desire to win. And he demands things from his teammates even if they suck.

melo isnt cut from that cloth.
Kobe inspires fear in other players. Melo inspires double-teams.

I'm all-in for trading him, if we could.

[bluechox2]

looks like 2015 free agency is a bust even before it started

all major players likely to stay put

[el gringos]

looks like 2015 free agency is a bust even before it started

all major players likely to stay put
What? Noooooooo. They'll all come. For cheap too

[el gringos]

Towns or okafor?


To me it's towns by a mile. I haven't seen much of any of them, and it will be hard to judge mudiay- but who doesn't love the sound of a 6-5 pg. Myles turner needs a look too.


Still don't believe Knicks will have a top 3-5 pick

[el gringos]

PG-
Mudiay 6-5 my reasoning for liking him is similar to tony wroten. Though ideally a triangle pg should be a shooter this team needs someone to get to the basket and needs a major defensive upgrade from the pg spot.

D'angelo Russell 6-5. I hate ohio st and their guys are typically really over rated. I think this guy bucks that trend and might be a really good point guard if he can defend.

Powell 6-4 UCLA. Keeps being listed as a 2, but would be a triangle 1. Has ability as a defender, shooter, and finisher.


Sg/sf

I'm just not yet a fan of any of the wings, the herjonia or whatever looks intriguing, and I'll see a lot more of Arizona still but haven't yet seen what makes their guy such a consensus top 5 type player. Decker will be a lottery pick. But not because of the joe Alexander comparisons. He will be what they hoped Alexander would be


Pf
Christian wood 6-11 UNLV and Larry Nance JR 6-9 Wyoming both out of the mountain west conference IMO would fit what the Knicks need at pf (2 different roles). Nance would be a great replacement for acy and currently according to mock draft lists could easily be had in the 2nd. Wood is 6-11 and can shoot and run, he is now listed in the 20's sadly.


Pf/c
This is where the 3 guys Knicks scouts should watch the most fit in. Might have 3 of the highest ceilings in this draft

Towns 7-0 Kentucky
Turner 6-11 Texas
Porzingis 7-0


C
I'm not down on okafor, I just don't think he is a franchise player. He doesn't finish w dunks and I don't think he is 6-11. Maybe my eye test is wrong and he is that big. If he is maybe he is the #1 but right now I like the potential of the 3 pf/C's and mudiay more.

Center might be a spot the Knicks could find a way into the late 1st or 2nd and still find a player to make the roster

Kaminsky 7-0 Wisconsin would be a great fit, question is will the guy be picked in the teens or in the 2nd. I'd be skeptical at 14, would love him at 25 or lower



I know most of you guys don't care what I write, I like looking back to see what I actually thought at certain times in the year.


I would love to see you guys name some under the radar guys or really rank you see players fitting the Knicks specifically.

[Da KO King]

Talking draft is essentially useless because the team has a coach that NEVER wanted to coach and GM/President that always wants to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

That said, I'd look at the following guys:
Delon Wright (G, Utah - Senior) and Ron Baker (G, Wichita State - Junior) as fringe first round prospects

Bobby Portis (F, Arkansas - Sophomore) and Frank Kaminsky (F/C, Wisconsin - Senior) as picks just outside the lottery.

Stanley Johnson (F, Arizona - Freshman) is the focus for mid to late lottery picks.

If you've got the top pick then Jahlil Okafor has to be your guy.

[el gringos]

Talking draft is essentially useless because the team has a coach that NEVER wanted to coach and GM/President that always wants to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

That said, I'd look at the following guys:
Delon Wright (G, Utah - Senior) and Ron Baker (G, Wichita State - Junior) as fringe first round prospects

Bobby Portis (F, Arkansas - Sophomore) and Frank Kaminsky (F/C, Wisconsin - Senior) as picks just outside the lottery.

Stanley Johnson (F, Arizona - Freshman) is the focus for mid to late lottery picks.

If you've got the top pick then Jahlil Okafor has to be your guy.
I like watching delon wright play, and of course 6-5 pg's are nice. I just question if he has the strength or explosive athleticism to be an nba pg. Kind of see him as a smaller skinnier Evan turner type. Great player, just not athletic enough to create space. The mop top from Wichita? Wow would this board be pissed if Phil got a late 1st/early 2nd and picked him.


I don't know that you can write off Phil on drafting. He might have done really well w his picks so far. Too early to tell, but thanasis may still have value, cleanthony will get his shot and wear as an I drafted guy is pretty good work IMO. I think they have to go guard or big or both to not cancel out those guys.

[Da KO King]

When I said "look" I simply meant in terms of scouting.

I never trust the decision making of a person who is obsessed with proving he's smarter than everyone else. It's the main reason I didn't like the Phil Jackson hire to begin with.

[el gringos]

Point guards for the Knicks

1-mudiay
2-Russell Ohio st
3-Powell UCLA
4-grant notre dame
5-wright Utah


That's a really good group of big pg's

[knickscity]

When I said "look" I simply meant in terms of scouting.

I never trust the decision making of a person who is obsessed with proving he's smarter than everyone else. It's the main reason I didn't like the Phil Jackson hire to begin with.
Thanks for this post. There's a main reason why I respect your opinion because you'll actually state it and not beat around the bush.

I have no issue with Phil's hire, but I do have an issue with him wanting to force feed the triangle and I'm concern he will pass on talent just because of his system, and players will pass as well because of such system.

[Rameek]

Thanks for this post. There's a main reason why I respect your opinion because you'll actually state it and not beat around the bush.

I have no issue with Phil's hire, but I do have an issue with him wanting to force feed the triangle and I'm concern he will pass on talent just because of his system, and players will pass as well because of such system.
We cant be ok with the hire in one way then not be ok with how he is running things. This is what he was going to do and said as much so no one should be shocked about his dedication to the Triangle.

[el gringos]

So even if 90whatever % of this board is all about okafor (until they read different), any chance you want to actually watch the games?


D' Angelo Russell is a better player than okafor.


Do you want the Knicks go for the highest ceiling or highest floor? Is this pick about next year or the next 10?


The towns/okafor debate is IMO about a safer pick or a higher ceiling. The guards (Russell/Mudiay) is a tougher call.


Just because you guys are 100% decided now doesn't mean a couple months more of reading articles and mock drafts won't change your mind. I just want you all to remember that it is okafor or nothing right now so that once you've read something that changes your mind you'll at least remember that there's only 1 player in this draft right now.

[Da KO King]

To me there is no tough call between D'Angelo Russell and Emmanuel Mudiay. Russell is on of the most complete SG prospect to come along in a long time. Much rather have him than Mudiay who is a Russell Westbrook knock-off to me.

Right now I'm guessing the Knicks "big board" Top 5 looks like this:

Jahlil Okafor
D'Angelo Russell
Myles Turner
Karl Towns
Emmanuel Mudiay

[smoovegittar]

To me there is no tough call between D'Angelo Russell and Emmanuel Mudiay. Russell is on of the most complete SG prospect to come along in a long time. Much rather have him than Mudiay who is a Russell Westbrook knock-off to me.

Right now I'm guessing the Knicks "big board" Top 5 looks like this:

Jahlil Okafor
D'Angelo Russell
Myles Turner
Karl Towns
Emmanuel Mudiay


It's what mine would look like. I can't wait for this ish to go down... can't get into other team's success too much this year.

[franchize]

If we don't get Okafor or Mudiay, I'd trade down. I like Russell but he's too left hand dominant and I worry about his handle. I wouldn't MIND us taking him but I'd rather us trade down and get a proven NBA PG from another team willing to move up and remain in the draft albeit lower. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sold on Okafor and Mudiay anymore. Knicks can't afford to draft a bust so whatever we do, it better be good. :(

[Da KO King]

If we don't get Okafor or Mudiay, I'd trade down. I like Russell but he's too left hand dominant and I worry about his handle. I wouldn't MIND us taking him but I'd rather us trade down and get a proven NBA PG from another team willing to move up and remain in the draft albeit lower. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sold on Okafor and Mudiay anymore. Knicks can't afford to draft a bust so whatever we do, it better be good. :(
Mudiay plays just as one handed as Russell.

I think my dislike of Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher is well documented by now. I honestly feel hopeless about this franchise because I don't see a direction under those two.

[Scoooter]

If we don't get Okafor or Mudiay, I'd trade down. I like Russell but he's too left hand dominant and I worry about his handle. I wouldn't MIND us taking him but I'd rather us trade down and get a proven NBA PG from another team willing to move up and remain in the draft albeit lower. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sold on Okafor and Mudiay anymore. Knicks can't afford to draft a bust so whatever we do, it better be good. :(
I second all of this. No one in this draft class looks stellar.

[el gringos]

Drop down for multiple pieces is always a great idea in theory. What kind of pg are you envisioning and how far down the draft?

#3 for #14 and mcw or wroten?


IMO this draft has about 6-8 guys and then a pretty good drop off right?

Muidiay, Russell

Mario, Stanley Johnson

Okafor, wcs, towns, turner


Can't trade down below there right?


I hope the Knicks end up w Russell or wcs

[el gringos]

Hypothetically the Knicks win pick #2 and the t wolves get slotted in at #5 would you trade

2 (okafor) and thj
For
5 (wcs) and z Lavine


Or is that the Knicks giving too much or too little?