What happened to the Heat?

[nashwade]

Can't beat the Bucks?
With Wade seemingly healthy and bosh contributing more than last year's finals I would have thought they are at least top 4 in the weak EC.

[DamnMixes]

You mentioned these two players but what about guys like Deng? He wasn't even playing that game.

This is pretty much these two guys and bunch of role players playing right now. Granger and McRoberts in the starting five, oh lawd.

The bucks are looking pretty nice, finally their defense works. Still they had a pretty easy schedule for majority of the games but this team should be in top 8

[Lebronxrings]

2 superstars, 2 all stars, top 5 coach, deepest bench in the league. No excuses.

[navy]

Inconsistent lineups due to injuries. Birdman is unavailable, Wade has been in and out, Deng just got injured, Granger has been in and out, McRoerts as well.

They'll put it together.

[Milbuck]

Can't beat the Bucks?
Have you seen one Bucks game this year?

[Imtheman]

Op, the bucks are good this year

[GrapeApe]

Inconsistent lineups due to injuries. Birdman is unavailable, Wade has been in and out, Deng just got injured, Granger has been in and out, McRoerts as well.

They'll put it together.

This. They're trotting out a different lineup nearly every game. When they were healthy to start the year they played very well (beat the Raptors, Wizards, won at Dallas). I'm not too worried. The important thing is our top two guys are performing as hoped, and in Wade's case maybe even better. If they continue playing at a high level the Heat will be in good shape once the injuries sort themselves out.

[AintNoSunshine]

Bron left

[ArbitraryWater]

Bron left

[SouBeachTalents]

Bron left

[rezznor]

Inconsistent lineups due to injuries. Birdman is unavailable, Wade has been in and out, Deng just got injured, Granger has been in and out, McRoerts as well.

They'll put it together.
rockets are in a worse situation. in the WEST.

[GrapeApe]

Bron left.

Seriously though, had he stayed the Heat would have crushed the league. I really believe that. I've said it before but getting embarassed in the finals would have completely rejuvenated them. They'd be more focused and determined. Assuming Wade and Bosh would perform at or near their current level, it could have been the best big 3 era Heat team IMO.

[rezznor]

Have you seen one Bucks game this year?
saw the one where Harden dropped 34-6-7 on them :lol

[navy]

rockets are in a worse situation. in the WEST.
Playig much better defense. They'll come back down to Earth. :no:

[hawksdogsbraves]

Spo has been revealed as the garbage coach most people always knew he was. No way this team should be this bad, but he's got no LeBron to cover up for the fact that he's a bottom-tier coach anymore and the results speak for themselves.

[WallIn]

Lebron?

He could to go Philly right now and they would most certainly make the playoffs.

[Le Shaqtus]

2 superstars, 2 all stars, top 5 coach, deepest bench in the league. No excuses.

Did this nikka just say deepest bench in the league? :lol

You're not supposed to make trolling look this hard.

[Dresta]

Injuries and Spoelstra won't admit that the league has adjusted to his defensive schemes, resulting in freaking lay-up lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x0kBHDoMQs&list=UUSpvjDk06HLxBaw8sZw7SkA

Also playing 2 low-pick rookies meaningful minutes is hardly a recipe for early regular season success.

[ArbitraryWater]

Injuries and Spoelstra won't admit that the league has adjusted to his defensive schemes, resulting in freaking lay-up lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x0kBHDoMQs&list=UUSpvjDk06HLxBaw8sZw7SkA

Also playing 2 low-pick rookies meaningful minutes is hardly a recipe for early regular season success.

But bro, surely eventually the Heat will thrive without LeBron ball, amirite?

[Milbuck]

saw the one where Harden dropped 34-6-7 on them :lol
Would expect no less from the regular season warrior he is. Bringing it in November, vintage Beard :bowdown:

[navy]

Injuries and Spoelstra won't admit that the league has adjusted to his defensive schemes, resulting in freaking lay-up lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x0kBHDoMQs&list=UUSpvjDk06HLxBaw8sZw7SkA

Also playing 2 low-pick rookies meaningful minutes is hardly a recipe for early regular season success.
Ive been impressed by the young guys. But yeah, they are expected to produce perhaps unfairly.

Defense needs to change. Stopped working in consistently in 2013 but the team was so good it didnt matter. 2014 it was finished as a top 5 defensive strategy. I dont even think they were top 10 that year. This year will probably end up being worse.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Team that went to 4 straight finals; + Deng, Granger, McRoberts, Williams; - Lebron = fighting for a playoffs spot and a >.500 record.

Team that got a lottery pick 2-3 years in a row with one of the worst records in the league; - those two 1st picks; + Love (the guy who was never in the playoffs before) + Lebron = championship contender.

Lebron should be the MVP only based on this let alone his play.

[Done_And_Done]

Team that went to 4 straight finals; + Deng, Granger, McRoberts, Williams; - Lebron = fighting for a playoffs spot and a >.500 record.

Team that got a lottery pick 2-3 years in a row with one of the worst records in the league; - those two 1st picks; + Love (the guy who was never in the playoffs before) + Lebron = championship contender.

Lebron should be the MVP only based on this let alone his play.

I'm pretty sure the acquisition of Kevin Love has something to do with that as well.

But I digress... I get the hunch that this Miami team is one of those veteran groups that will linger throughout the course of the season and then kick into another gear come playoff time. As a Raptors fan, I don't wanna see this team in the first round of the playoffs that's for sure...

[LEFT4DEAD]

I'm pretty sure the acquisition of Kevin Love has something to do with that as well.

But I digress... I get the hunch that this Miami team is one of those veteran groups that will linger throughout the course of the season and then kick into another gear come playoff time. As a Raptors fan, I don't wanna see this team in the first round of the playoffs that's for sure...
Yeah. Surely acquiring a guy who had a 153-323 record since his coming into the league till the last season has to do something with the Cavs being the top team this season.

Face it. Cavs team without Lebron are .500 team at most. Those guys are all career long losers who dont know what the winning is.

[Done_And_Done]

Yeah. Surely acquiring a guy who had a 153-323 record since his coming into the league till the last season has to do something with the Cavs being the top team this season.

Face it. Cavs team without Lebron are .500 team at most. Those guys are all career long losers who dont know what the winning is.

You speak as if we're referring to a team that's shredding the league right now. You also speak as if Lebron would have came back home had Kevin Love not been included in the mix. And regardless of his futile winning record in Minny, we're still talking about a top 3 power forward in the league. His piss poor resume in Minnesota doesn't encapsulate who he is in its entirety.

With that said, I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest or divert from theme of the thread. Lebron is clearly the main guy that makes this team go and there's no denying that. But let's not act like this is the exact same Cleveland team from years passed OR that he's not playing along side two legitimate all stars.

[LEFT4DEAD]

You speak as if we're referring to a team that's shredding the league right now. You also speak as if Lebron would have came back home had Kevin Love not been included in the mix. And in regardkess of his futile winning record in Minny, we're still talking about a top 3 power forward in the league. His piss poor resume in Minnesota doesn't encapsulate who he is in its entirety.

With that said, I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest or divert from theme of the thread. Lebron is clearly the main guy that makes this team go and there's no denying that. But let's not act like this is the exact same Cleveland team from years passed OR that he's not playing along side two legitimate all stars.
The thing is, when I think about this Cavs team WITHOUT Lebron, I just cant imagine them anywhere near the top. They are 7th or 8th seed on the east without Lebron.

You can say, they have Irving, Love, Waiters etc, but I dont see those guys winning anything above .500 without Lebron. They are too imature. They are career losers. Shotjackers who dont know how to win.

And yes. Cavs are the favourites. They had a better start then the Heats BIG 3 in their first season. They will be a monster with the season going. And all of that primary thanks to Lebron, who, again, like on the Heat, knows what he needs to do to get it going with those guys. Dont let you numbers like 25/10/8 at the end of season surprise you, because this guy will be a Magic-like point forward on this team.

Lebrons leadership and IQ are the most underrated things about him.

[GrapeApe]

The thing is, when I think about this Cavs team WITHOUT Lebron, I just cant imagine them anywhere near the top. They are 7th or 8th seed on the east without Lebron.

You can say, they have Irving, Love, Waiters etc, but I dont see those guys winning anything above .500 without Lebron. They are too imature. They are career losers. Shotjackers who dont know how to win.

And yes. Cavs are the favourites. They had a better start then the Heats BIG 3 in their first season. They will be a monster with the season going. And all of that primary thanks to Lebron, who, again, like on the Heat, knows what he needs to do to get it going with those guys. Dont let you numbers like 25/10/8 at the end of season surprise you, because this guy will be a Magic-like point forward on this team.

Lebrons leadership and IQ are the most underrated things about him.

People complained LeBron was carrying too much of the load in Miami. If he's putting up 25/10/8 it's a terrible sign for the Cavs. It would also give more credence to the sentiment that LeBron diminishes star teammates. If LeBron is putting up those type of numbers, there's no way Irving and Love are performing up to their capabilities.

[ArbitraryWater]

People complained LeBron was carrying too much of the load in Miami. If he's putting up 25/10/8 it's a terrible sign for the Cavs. It would also give more credence to the sentiment that LeBron diminishes star teammates. If LeBron is putting up those type of numbers, there's no way Irving and Love are performing up to their capabilities.

:facepalm

Then the **** is Bosh doing right now?

And Irving is playing his best ball yet..

[GrapeApe]

:facepalm

Then the **** is Bosh doing right now?

And Irving is playing his best ball yet..

I was responding to the poster who said LeBron may end up averaging 25/10/8. My point was that if LeBron has to put up those type of numbers it's a bad sign. Those are better numbers than he averaged in Miami, and it was often stated he was carrying too much of an individual burden.

Right now he's at about 24/8/6 which is probably where he ideally should be. I'm not sure what your point about Bosh was since his numbers so far are better than the previous four years.

[jrong]

Bron left.

Seriously though, had he stayed the Heat would have crushed the league. I really believe that. I've said it before but getting embarassed in the finals would have completely rejuvenated them. They'd be more focused and determined. Assuming Wade and Bosh would perform at or near their current level, it could have been the best big 3 era Heat team IMO.

Think about the logical fallacy in that statement. Wade and Bosh wouldn't be performing at that level if LeBron was here, at least in terms of numbers. Wade might maintain the same efficiency, but the touches would be reduced. And Bosh isn't even playing that well, so if you downsize his touches too... you see the point?

Also, you're just feeding trolls. The stans want to advance the narrative that the Heat were nothing without LeBron, that he made them. Conveniently for them, the Heat have problems that are related to his absence, but the problems are due to the fact that the team is trying to play the same system without him. Change the system, and this can still be a dangerous team.

Wade is thriving again as the featured player, and Bosh is at least putting up better numbers with more touches. The problem is trying to play small ball and pace-and-space without LeBron. With a real C and Bosh at the 4 and, a lot of the problems get fixed. If Deng is healthy, at least that potentially brings more help and getting Birdman back would too. But, the Heat are fundamentally flawed until they change their system.

[Dresta]

Think about the logical fallacy in that statement. Wade and Bosh wouldn't be performing at that level if LeBron was here, at least in terms of numbers. Wade might maintain the same efficiency, but the touches would be reduced. And Bosh isn't even playing that well, so if you downsize his touches too... you see the point?

Also, you're just feeding trolls. The stans want to advance the narrative that the Heat were nothing without LeBron, that he made them. Conveniently for them, the Heat have problems that are related to his absence, but the problems are due to the fact that the team is trying to play the same system without him. Change the system, and this can still be a dangerous team.

Wade is thriving again as the featured player, and Bosh is at least putting up better numbers with more touches. The problem is trying to play small ball and pace-and-space without LeBron. With a real C and Bosh at the 4 and, a lot of the problems get fixed. If Deng is healthy, at least that potentially brings more help and getting Birdman back would too. But, the Heat are fundamentally flawed until they change their system.
This, though the system was exploited all of Lebron's last year in Miami also. Spo for some reason hasn't recognised its obsolescence and thinks its weaknesses can be covered by superior energy alone.

[Nash]

its weird, they lost one player, replaced him with 3-4 improvements yet look nowhere close to last years team.

[jrong]

This, though the system was exploited all of Lebron's last year in Miami also. Spo for some reason hasn't recognised its obsolescence and thinks its weaknesses can be covered by superior energy alone.

Yeah, the defensive system depends on having LeBron and a frisky Wade fly around the perimeter and do a lot of help and recover. So, as Wade slowed down, and teams generally became more adjusted to the Heat's system, it became easier to beat. The Spurs dismantled it with ball movement.

On offense, they're running Bosh at the 5, who is 6'11" and wonder why they're the worst rebounding team in the league. Wade doesn't have the mobility, it seems, to be that perimeter rebounder anymore (or defender-- it makes sense when you remember in Kobe's last elite offensive years, his defense slipped). So that's where you're missing the 6'8" forward who's gonna grab 8 rebounds a game.

[Lebron23]

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YODg65nll_o/S0Vy3EW21MI/AAAAAAACNHM/bkQgiOuvG6w/s800/lebron_james_nba_100106_cle-vs-was-03.jpg

[GrapeApe]

Think about the logical fallacy in that statement. Wade and Bosh wouldn't be performing at that level if LeBron was here, at least in terms of numbers. Wade might maintain the same efficiency, but the touches would be reduced. And Bosh isn't even playing that well, so if you downsize his touches too... you see the point?

Also, you're just feeding trolls. The stans want to advance the narrative that the Heat were nothing without LeBron, that he made them. Conveniently for them, the Heat have problems that are related to his absence, but the problems are due to the fact that the team is trying to play the same system without him. Change the system, and this can still be a dangerous team.

Wade is thriving again as the featured player, and Bosh is at least putting up better numbers with more touches. The problem is trying to play small ball and pace-and-space without LeBron. With a real C and Bosh at the 4 and, a lot of the problems get fixed. If Deng is healthy, at least that potentially brings more help and getting Birdman back would too. But, the Heat are fundamentally flawed until they change their system.

I agree 100% with your first two paragraphs. Even WITH LeBron, the system was / is flawed and must be changed. As for the first part, had LeBron returned and scaled it back as he appears to be doing in Cleveland, I think Wade would put up similar numbers to what he's produced this year. At worst he'd be averaging Kyrie type numbers on better efficiency. I don't know about Bosh though because his touches would definitely be reduced. Still though, I'm sure the Heat would have made a concerted effort to have more balance.

[T_L_P]

2 superstars, 2 all stars, top 5 coach, deepest bench in the league. No excuses.

LeBron only being able to go 2/4 with that supersquad. :eek:

[Hey Yo]

LeBron isn't there to lead the team in points, rebounds, assists and steals while Wade sits out allegedly hurt.

[GrapeApe]

its weird, they lost one player, replaced him with 3-4 improvements yet look nowhere close to last years team.

What improvements? Granger looks done, McRoberts has been disappointing, and Deng, though he's played well at times, has been in and out of the lineup with injuries. They've had like 8 different starting lineups so far this year.

[Hey Yo]

LeBron only being able to go 2/4 with that supersquad. :eek:
James never played for the Spurs.

[RedBlackAttack]

What improvements? Granger looks done, McRoberts has been disappointing, and Deng, though he's played well at times, has been in and out of the lineup with injuries. They've had like 8 different starting lineups so far this year.
They'll regret signing Deng to that contract. He's a shell of his former self and almost constantly nursing an injury. If he's supposed to be the guy picking up some of the LeBron slack, the Heat are in big trouble.

But, Wade and Bosh are still two very good players and I think they'll figure it out enough to be a Top 4 seed by season's end. Beyond that? Roster moves will have to be made if they want to be a legitimate title contender.

It's really not that difficult... you lose the best player in the NBA and replace him with a broken down Deng, things are going to be a little more rocky than you're used to, especially at the start of the season when the team and coaches are still adjusting to the roster.

[FKAri]

This. They're trotting out a different lineup nearly every game. When they were healthy to start the year they played very well (beat the Raptors, Wizards, won at Dallas). I'm not too worried. The important thing is our top two guys are performing as hoped, and in Wade's case maybe even better. If they continue playing at a high level the Heat will be in good shape once the injuries sort themselves out.

What's good shape?
playoffs?
1st round exit?
2nd round exit?

[navy]

What's good shape?
playoffs?
1st round exit?
2nd round exit?
Only team the Heat fear is the Cavs. :no:

[T_L_P]

James never played for the Spurs.

Yes, because there's only one supersquad in the league at any one time. :facepalm

The Bran fan just said James played with two superstars, a top 5 coach, and a top 5 coach of all time as the Pres.

[navy]

Yes, because there's only one supersquad in the league at any one time. :facepalm

The Bran fan just said James played with two superstars, a top 5 coach, and a top 5 coach of all time as the Pres.
Wasnt there a thread a few days ago where people agreed Pop > Lebron. :confusedshrug:

Spurs are stacked.

[Nash]

What improvements? Granger looks done, McRoberts has been disappointing, and Deng, though he's played well at times, has been in and out of the lineup with injuries. They've had like 8 different starting lineups so far this year.
Improvements from Battier, Lewis, Oden, Beasley and the rest.

[edrick]

The difference is, that Bosh can't lead a team passed the first round. Dude is a great player, but cannot lead. Unfortunately for them, Wade just isn't dependable, health wise.

[GrapeApe]

I've always defended Spo but he's a big part of the problem right now. His stubborness with this scheme is inexplicable. I think most Heat fans knew there would be some rocky stretches this year, but these last four games have been embarassing.

[T_L_P]

Wasnt there a thread a few days ago where people agreed Pop > Lebron. :confusedshrug:

Spurs are stacked.

IIRC, maybe 2 people said LeBron was less valuable than Pop. :confusedshrug:

When did I say otherwise? I know we're stacked. Have been for a couple of years. #noexcuses for us, and #noexcuses for the latest LeBron superteam.

[Crimsonrain777]

its weird, they lost one player, replaced him with 3-4 improvements yet look nowhere close to last years team.

some of those improvements were meant to be a supplement to Lebron. alas, he decided to leave without telling anybody