Wilt Chamberlain versus ...everyone else in NBA history combined

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yhlETG9pkv4/VIUK8h9hF5I/AAAAAAAAFmc/Mdo3FublhFw/s800/nba-highest-scoring-games3OnlyWilt.jpghttps://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YdKQ-TUa1ZY/VIUK8doBNTI/AAAAAAAAFmU/9sdO5PgTCp8/s800/nba-highest-scoring-gamesminusWilt.jpg

[navy]

Everyone else in history: 63 rings.


Wilt Chamberlain: 2 rings.

[coin24]

GOAT... Playoff choker

[Asukal]

Nah Russell is enough. 11>2 :oldlol: :roll:

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wilt also has the greatest ppg drop off from the regular season to the postseason/Finals

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Weak era. Kobe's 81 is far more impressive and I don't even like Kobe as much as most.

[stalkerforlife]

Weak era. Kobe's 81 is far more impressive and I don't even like Kobe as much as most.

:roll:

[HomieWeMajor]

This guy averaged 48.5 minutes for a season. Take that in for a second. If his team was up by 20-30 points in the 4th he would play the whole 4th quarter just to pad his stats. Biggest stapadder of all time and it isn't even close.

[LAZERUSS]

Again, had Chamberlain had the luxury of facing the Lakers, at all, in his post-season career, like Russell did five times in the 60's (in his 6th against Wilt he did nothing BTW)...

and he CLEARLY would own virtually every post-season scoring record, and likely every post-season FG% record, as well.

SEVEN games of 60+ just against the Lakers, which is more than any other player had in their entire career.


Keep in mind that Russell WAS fortunate enough to have faced the Lakers FIVE times in the post-season in that span (actually six, but in the last one, he faced Wilt, and as expected, did absolutely nothing offensively), and it was against LA in which he elevated his playoff scoring and FG%. In fact, remove the Lakers from his post-seasons, and his offensive production would have dropped considerably.

Here were Russell's numbers against LA in those five series:

'62:

Russell averaged 18.9 ppg on a .457 FG% in his regular season against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds.

BTW, against Wilt in the '62 EDF's: 22.0 ppg on a .399 FG%


'63:

Russell averaged 16.8 ppg on a .432 FG% in his regular season.

Against LA in the Finals: 20 ppg on a .467 FG%


'65:

Russell averaged 14.1 ppg on a .438 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 17.8 ppg on a .702 FG% (yes, .702.)

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG%


'66:

Russell averaged 12.9 ppg on a .415 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 14.0 ppg on a .423 FG%


'68:

Russell averaged 12.5 ppg on a .425 FG% against the NBA

Against LA in the Finals: 17.3 ppg on a .430 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 13.7 ppg on a .440 FG%


Oh, and here were Russell's stats in the '69 Finals against Wilt:

Regular season against the NBA: 9.9 ppg on a .433 FG%

Against Wilt in the Finals: 9.0 ppg on a .397 FG%




Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting.


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

[T_L_P]

If his team was up by 20-30 points in the 4th he would play the whole 4th quarter just to pad his stats. Biggest stapadder of all time and it isn't even close.

Despicable.

[CavaliersFTW]

Note how balanced these 60+ point scoring performances/performers are distributed accross the "era's".


...except for Wilt. The outlier. The most dominant individual player ever.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Most NBA Championships Won

Minimum one game played in playoffs.

Rank Player Team(s) First Last Count
1 Bill Russell* BOS 1957 1969 11
2 Sam Jones* BOS 1959 1969 10
3 John Havlicek* BOS 1963 1976 8
Tom Heinsohn* BOS 1957 1965 8
K.C. Jones* BOS 1959 1966 8
Tom Sanders* BOS 1961 1969 8
7 Robert Horry HOU/LAL/SAS 1994 2007 7
Frank Ramsey* BOS 1957 1964 7
9 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* MIL/LAL 1971 1988 6
Bob Cousy* BOS 1957 1963 6
Michael Jordan* CHI 1991 1998 6
Jim Loscutoff BOS 1957 1964 6
Scottie Pippen* CHI 1991 1998 6
14 Kobe Bryant LAL 2000 2010 5
Michael Cooper LAL 1980 1988 5
Tim Duncan SAS 1999 2014 5
Derek Fisher LAL 2000 2010 5
Ron Harper CHI/LAL 1996 2001 5
Magic Johnson* LAL 1980 1988 5
Steve Kerr CHI/SAS 1996 2003 5
Slater Martin* MNL/STL 1950 1958 5
George Mikan* MNL 1949 1954 5
Don Nelson* BOS 1966 1976 5
Jim Pollard* MNL 1949 1954 5
Dennis Rodman* DET/CHI 1989 1998 5
Larry Siegfried BOS 1964 1969 5
27 Manu Ginobili SAS 2003 2014 4
Horace Grant CHI/LAL 1991 2001 4
Vern Mikkelsen* MNL 1950 1954 4
Shaquille O'Neal LAL/MIA 2000 2006 4
Robert Parish* BOS/CHI 1981 1997 4
Tony Parker SAS 2003 2014 4
Will Perdue CHI/SAS 1991 1999 4
Kurt Rambis LAL 1982 1988 4
John Salley DET/CHI/LAL 1989 2000 4
Pep Saul ROC/MNL 1951 1954 4
Bill Sharman* BOS 1957 1961 4
38 B.J. Armstrong CHI 1991 1993 3
Larry Bird* BOS 1981 1986 3
Bruce Bowen SAS 2003 2007 3
Randy Brown CHI 1996 1998 3
Jud Buechler CHI 1996 1998 3
Bill Cartwright CHI 1991 1993 3
Sam Cassell HOU/BOS 1994 2008 3
Gene Conley BOS 1959 1961 3
James Edwards DET/CHI 1989 1996 3
Mario Elie HOU/SAS 1994 1999 3
Rick Fox LAL 2000 2002 3
Devean George LAL 2000 2002 3
A.C. Green LAL 1987 2000 3
Bob Harrison MNL 1950 1953 3
Udonis Haslem MIA 2006 2013 3
Gerald Henderson BOS/DET 1981 1990 3
Dennis Johnson* SEA/BOS 1979 1986 3
Stacey King CHI 1991 1993 3
Toni Kukoc CHI 1996 1998 3
Luc Longley CHI 1996 1998 3
Clyde Lovellette* MNL/BOS 1954 1964 3
Kevin McHale* BOS 1981 1986 3
Willie Naulls BOS 1964 1966 3
John Paxson CHI 1991 1993 3
Byron Scott LAL 1985 1988 3
Brian Shaw LAL 2000 2002 3
Paul Silas BOS/SEA 1974 1979 3
Dwyane Wade MIA 2006 2013 3
Jamaal Wilkes* GSW/LAL 1975 1982 3
Scott Williams CHI 1991 1993 3
James Worthy* LAL 1985 1988 3

[305Baller]

maybe he was worn down in playoffs/finals.

inconceivable he didnt have more rings.


or he could just b a choker

[Deuce Bigalow]

30 point games (Playoffs)
Michael Jordan -- 109
Kobe Bryant -- 88
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 75
Jerry West -- 74
Lebron James -- 61
Elgin Baylor -- 60
Shaquille O'Neal -- 55
Karl Malone -- 54
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 53
Rick Barry -- 48
Dirk Nowitzki -- 45
Larry Bird -- 43
Wilt Chamberlain -- 42
Allen Iverson -- 36
Tim Duncan -- 36
Bob Pettit -- 33
George Gervin -- 32
Dwyane Wade -- 32
John Havlicek -- 30
Reggie Miller -- 29
Charles Barkley - 28
Rick Barry -- 27
George Gervin -- 26
Oscar Robertson -- 23

40 point games (Playoffs)
Michael Jordan -- 38
Jerry West -- 20
Elgin Baylor -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Wilt Chamberlain -- 13
Shaquille O'Neal -- 12
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 11
Lebron James -- 11
Allen Iverson -- 10
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 9
Rick Barry -- 8
Bernard King -- 7
Dirk Nowitzki -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
George Gervin -- 6
Charles Barkley -- 5
Larry Bird -- 5
John Havlicek -- 5
Bob McAdoo -- 5
Bob Pettit -- 5
Dominique Wilkins -- 5

50 point games (Playoffs)
Michael Jordan -- 8
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 3
Jerry West -- 2
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
John Havlicek -- 1
Sam Jones -- 1
Eric Floyd -- 1
Ray Allen -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1
Billy Cunningham -- 1
Bob McAdoo -- 1
Dominique Wilkins -- 1
Karl Malone -- 1
Vince Carter -- 1
Dirk Nowitzki -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Bob Cousy -- 1

60 point games (Playoffs)
Michael Jordan -- 1
Elgin Baylor -- 1

---------------------------------------

30 point games (Finals)
Jerry West -- 31
Michael Jordan -- 23
Elgin Baylor -- 19
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 16
Shaquille O'Neal -- 16
Bob Pettit -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Rick Barry -- 8
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 8
John Havlicek -- 8
Sam Jones -- 8
George Mikan -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
Larry Bird -- 5
Julius Erving -- 5
James Worthy -- 5
Tom Heinsohn -- 5
Cliff Hagan -- 5
Lebron James -- 5
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4
Allen Iverson -- 4
Clyde Drexler -- 4
Tim Duncan -- 4

40 point games (Finals)
Jerry West -- 10
Michael Jordan -- 6
Shaquille O'Neal -- 5
Elgin Baylor -- 5
Rick Barry -- 3
George Mikan -- 2
Dwyane Wade -- 2
Bob Pettit -- 2
John Havlicek -- 2
Allen Iverson -- 1
Wilt Chamberlain -- 1
Isiah Thomas -- 1
Magic Johnson -- 1
Charles Barkley -- 1
Russell Westbrook -- 1
Kobe Bryant -- 1
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 1
Cliff Hagan -- 1
James Worthy -- 1
Julius Erving -- 1

50 point games (Finals)
Elgin Baylor -- 1
Rick Barry -- 1
Michael Jordan -- 1
Jerry West -- 1
Bob Pettit -- 1

60 point games (Finals)
Elgin Baylor -- 1

[riseagainst]

Everyone else in history: 63 rings.


Wilt Chamberlain: 2 rings.

:roll:
/end thread

[AirFederer]

It's a team game. Was his team sucessfull when he was a volume scorer?

:facepalm

MOAT easily.

[CavaliersFTW]

By the "era's"/seasons, distribution of 60 point games minus Wilt Chamberlain:

1947:
1948:
1949: 1

40's (only 3 seasons): 1

----------

1950:
1951:
1952: 1
1953:
1954:
1955:
1956:
1957:
1958:
1959:

50's Decade total: 1

----------

1960: 1
1961: 1
1962: 3
1963:
1964:
1965:
1966:
1967:
1968:
1969:

60's Decade total: 5

----------

1970:
1971:
1972:
1973:
1974: 1
1975:
1976:
1977: 1
1978: 2
1979:

70's Decade total: 4

----------

1980:
1981:
1982:
1983:
1984:
1985: 2
1986: 1
1987: 2
1988:
1989:

80's Decade total: 5

----------

1990: 3
1991:
1992:
1993: 1
1994: 1
1995:
1996:
1997:
1998:
1999:

90's Decade total: 5

----------

2000: 1
2001:
2002:
2003:
2004: 1
2005: 1
2006: 2
2007: 3
2008:
2009: 1

00's Decade total: 9

---------

2010:
2011:
2012:
2013:
2014: 2

'10's (5 seasons in): 2

[CavaliersFTW]

At some point you guys have got to stop derailing topics like this and admit what he was capable of doing was incredible. When threads like this are made, and a specific facet of his game is actually researched and layed out in front of you (in this case his and the game's prolific scoring nights) it's petty and contributes nothing to just ignore it and write unrelated dismissive one liners.

As for the OP and my above post I took him out of the list of other 60 point performances to reveal that 60 point nights weren't just handed out like candy in his "era". As far as I can see once you take him out of the equation of his era his era looks like any other era. And he appears to be an outlying product of incredible ability. You guys want to talk about winning, or whatever else great, please make another thread about that and I'll go on about how I feel Bill Russell is the greatest winner in the history of the sport bar nobody. But this topic is specific research about what I posted. Among the many things he set records in, Wilt scored the basketball more prolificly than any player in history, and it's quite clear to see that it isn't close. He scored as many 60 point games as everyone in history combined, and his totals are actually higher.

[riseagainst]

it's not as incredible when he's playing against guys like these:

http://formerpro.com/wp-content/uploads/short.jpg

[RoundMoundOfReb]

By the "era's"/seasons, distribution of 60 point games minus Wilt Chamberlain:

1947:
1948:
1949: 1

40's (only 3 seasons): 1

----------

1950:
1951:
1952: 1
1953:
1954:
1955:
1956:
1957:
1958:
1959:

50's Decade total: 1

----------

1960: 1
1961: 1
1962: 3
1963:
1964:
1965:
1966:
1967:
1968:
1969:

60's Decade total: 5

----------

1970:
1971:
1972:
1973:
1974: 1
1975:
1976:
1977: 1
1978: 2
1979:

70's Decade total: 4

----------

1980:
1981:
1982:
1983:
1984:
1985: 2
1986: 1
1987: 2
1988:
1989:

80's Decade total: 5

----------

1990: 3
1991:
1992:
1993: 1
1994: 1
1995:
1996:
1997:
1998:
1999:

90's Decade total: 5

----------

2000: 1
2001:
2002:
2003:
2004: 1
2005: 1
2006: 2
2007: 3
2008:
2009: 1

00's Decade total: 9

---------

2010:
2011:
2012:
2013:
2014: 2

'10's (5 seasons in): 2

How does this prove anything. The whole argument is that most people who played in the 60s were terrible and thus it was a weak era. Wilt on the other hand was basically the only NBA level player going up against said terrible players. How does posting the # 60 points by said terrible players disprove that? :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

How does this prove anything. The whole argument is that most people who played in the 60s were terrible and thus it was a weak era. Wilt on the other hand was basically the only NBA level player going up against said terrible players. How does posting the # 60 points by said terrible players disprove that? :oldlol:
It proves just what I said. Minus Wilt, the 1960's decade was no more, nor less prolific in 60+ point performances than the majority of NBA history. Simple as that.

"60's players are terrible"

^- this is an assumption. Therefore any burden of proof on asserting said assumption lies entirely on you, and others who may share your assumption to "prove" this. And to come up with a criteria for how proving this is even possible. Get to researching.

You can't prove a negative, that is a logical fallacy. As in "you can't prove that they WEREN'T terrible!". If you try to argue like this than you're only going to look like someone who can't comprehend, let alone make a point in a discussion.

[StephHamann]

30 point games (Finals)
Jerry West -- 31
Michael Jordan -- 23
Elgin Baylor -- 19
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 16
Shaquille O'Neal -- 16
Bob Pettit -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Rick Barry -- 8
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 8
John Havlicek -- 8
Sam Jones -- 8
George Mikan -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
Lebron James -- 7
Larry Bird -- 5
Julius Erving -- 5
James Worthy -- 5
Tom Heinsohn -- 5
Cliff Hagan -- 5
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4

[RoundMoundOfReb]

"60's players are terrible"

^- this is an assumption. Therefore any burden of proof on asserting said assumption lies entirely on you, and others who may share your assumption to "prove" this. And to come up with a criteria for how proving this is even possible. Get to researching.

You can't prove a negative, that is a logical fallacy. As in "you can't prove that they WEREN'T terrible!". If you try to argue like this than you're only going to look like someone who can't comprehend, let alone make a point in a discussion.
It's called watching the available tape.

<insert .gif of 60s Hall of Famer Bob Cousy attempting to dribble>

[CavaliersFTW]

It's called watching the available tape.

<insert .gif of 60s Hall of Famer Bob Cousy attempting to dribble>
You're failure to ever make a point makes your posts look like the ramblings of a mad man. The gif you mentioned isn't even a gif of the 1960's it's from 1954, and is in slow motion to aid the comedy. A deft pass that few players in this or any era could even pull off was removed from it. Allow me to claim 2010's basketball is trash by inserting the Paul Pierce gif stumbling in an identical manner, we'll use it to encapsulate all basketball of this era. Proven weakness. Am I right?

You're one of the laziest trolls I've encountered on ISH, what you post isn't even clever. Very lacking in wit. Step it up you're trailing the pack.

[SouBeachTalents]

30 point games (Finals)
Jerry West -- 31
Michael Jordan -- 23
Elgin Baylor -- 19
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 16
Shaquille O'Neal -- 16
Bob Pettit -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Rick Barry -- 8
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 8
John Havlicek -- 8
Sam Jones -- 8
George Mikan -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
Lebron James -- 7
Larry Bird -- 5
Julius Erving -- 5
James Worthy -- 5
Tom Heinsohn -- 5
Cliff Hagan -- 5
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4

Where did you get these stats?

[swagga]

what's the point of scoring 50 or more if you're going to lose anyways?

[Asukal]

At some point you guys have got to stop derailing topics like this and admit what he was capable of doing was incredible. When threads like this are made, and a specific facet of his game is actually researched and layed out in front of you (in this case his and the game's prolific scoring nights) it's petty and contributes nothing to just ignore it and write unrelated dismissive one liners.

As for the OP and my above post I took him out of the list of other 60 point performances to reveal that 60 point nights weren't just handed out like candy in his "era". As far as I can see once you take him out of the equation of his era his era looks like any other era. And he appears to be an outlying product of incredible ability. You guys want to talk about winning, or whatever else great, please make another thread about that and I'll go on about how I feel Bill Russell is the greatest winner in the history of the sport bar nobody. But this topic is specific research about what I posted. Among the many things he set records in, Wilt scored the basketball more prolificly than any player in history, and it's quite clear to see that it isn't close. He scored as many 60 point games as everyone in history combined, and his totals are actually higher.

Why did his production dip in the playoffs and finals? :rolleyes:

BTW his 2 rings will forever taint his legacy :oldlol:

[La Frescobaldi]

maybe he was worn down in playoffs/finals.

inconceivable he didnt have more rings.


or he could just b a choker

It makes you wonder about his teams, doesn't it? It's like the 80s Bulls but lots worse. + also, Injuries blew up his teams many many times in post season.

The one I hated most was '71 because like every Knicks fan I wanted Lakers to beat the Bucks.
Even tho with Baylor & West both drawing DNP-injury for the playoffs, LA shouldn't have even got to the WF... except Chamberlain was such a f'ing b*d*ss.... nobody ever ruled him out & he proved that by destroying the Bulls

Because you see? With just Wilt & Gail G being the only worthwhile competition on the Lakers in the Finals, Knicks would have easily had a 3-peat

[red1]

81 is more impressive

[La Frescobaldi]

81 is more impressive

71 is more impressive than 81

[LAZERUSS]

what's the point of scoring 50 or more if you're going to lose anyways?


Interesting point...

Chamberlain scored 50+ points in four playoff games, three of which were "must-win" games, and his teams went 4-0.

Obviously the man should have shot FAR more in the post-season. Of course, his COACHES made those decisions, NOT Wilt.

BTW, only a complete idiot would claim that Wilt could not have more (MUCH more) had he been so inclined.

Just watch footage of his title-clinching game five performance in the '72 Finals, when, as a way-past-his-prime Chamberlain, and playing with one badly sprained wrist, and the other fractured, scored 24 points, on 10-14 shooting (to go along with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocked shots.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPQV1WHtsU

There is absolutely NO QUESTION that this 35 year old Wilt, a year removed from retiring, could have easily scored 40 points had he wanted to.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SamuraiSWISH]

In the playoffs? MIA

[LAZERUSS]

In the playoffs? MIA


:roll: :roll: :roll:

THE greatest post-season rebounder in NBA history. BTW, when Russell retired after the '69 season, he had averaged 24.9 rpg. At that same time, Wilt was averaging 26.3 rpg in his post-season career. Furthermore, Chamberlain out-rebounded Russell in ALL eight of their post-season series, including margins of 5, 6, and 9 rpg!

Likely THE greatest post-season shot-blocker in NBA history. Here is what we KNOW. Wilt played in 160 post-season games. In the known 80 that we have recorded data, he blocked 570 shots. The "official" all-time post-season shot-blocker is Duncan...with 545 in 223 games. And we don't have much of Wilt's early post-season career numbers, when he was likely blocking even more shots.

Scoring? A "scoring" Wilt...from his rookie season in '59-60, and thru his last scoring title season in '65-66... averaged 32.8 ppg, 26.3 rpg, and shot .505 (in post-seasons that shot less than .420 in the same span...or about 10% higher than the post-season league eFG% average.)

Furthermore, his roster was so horrid, and with the league rules at the time, his 62-63 team didn't make playoffs...in a season in which he averaged 45 ppg on a .528 FG%.

AND, this "scoring" Wilt played in only 52 of his 160 post-season games...30 of which were against RUSSELL (or 60% of his playoff games.)! And all he could do against Russell in that same span, and in those 30 games, was average 30 ppg on a .507 FG%. Oh, and in those 52 games, he had 11 of 40+ points...or about 20% of his post-season games.

If you move to his greatest season, '66-67, his post-season CAREER averages at that time were, 67 games, 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and a .515 eFG% (in leagues that shot .420 in that span...or 10% higher than the post-season league eFG% mark.) Oh, and in those 67 games, he faced Thurmond in six games, and Russell in 35...or 41 of his playoff games!

Think about all of that for a moment. Facing two of the three greatest defensive centers of all-time (and the greatest TEAM dynasty in NBA history), Wilt averaged a 30-27-5 .515 FG% (and likely 8 bpg.) Now, give me YOUR list of other GOAT candidates who put up even one post-season SERIES with those averages. Hell, find me a GOAT who had ONE GAME with those averages.

MIA? How about CAREER post-season MUST-WIN games? Surely he choked right?


Wilt's numbers in those 23 games...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

Guess what? His PPG ranks THIRD all-time in those MUST WIN games, at 31.1 ppg, which is just behind the leader, Lebron, who is averaging 31.9 in his post-season career must-win games, and your boy Jordan, who finished at 31.3 ppg.

Not too bad for 'MIA" is it?

RECORDS? How about this? Most 50+ point games in a MUST-WIN playoff game...with THREE. How about the other GOATs', COMBINED...ZERO. NONE of them ever had a 50+ point game in a must-win game. Oh, and Chamberlain also hung a 45 point MUST WIN FINALS game in his post-season career, as well.

How about 35-25 post-seasons? ONE...no one else is even remotely close. How about 35-20 post-seasons? TWO. No one else with even one. How about 30-20 post-seasons? FOUR. Everyone else in NBA...ZERO. How about 25-20 post-seasons? SIX. How about 20-20 post-seasons? NINE.

Mr. "MIA" also had FOUR post-season series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. How many other players have accomplished THAT feat? And while there have been a handful...did they also average 20+ rebounds in the process? Oh, and how many other GOATs have hung a 30-30 .555 FG% series (in a post-season that shot .429)? BTW, that series was against RUSSELL.

While a "scoring" Wilt only played in ONE Finals (and against a Celtic team with EIGHT HOFers), he still hung a 29-28 .517 series (in a post-season that shot .420 BTW.) Not bad when he was SWARMED by Celtics.

In his SIX Finals, (again, only ONE of which came in his scoring prime), he outrebounded his opposing centers (ALL in the HOF BTW) in EVERY one of those series, and by as much as 13 rpg! He also outshot those six centers from the field by a combined .559 to .439 margin (oh, and he ELEVATED his rebounding and FG%'s over his regular season averages.)

I could go on...but the REALITY was, in his 29 post-season series, Wilt was the best player on his team in at least 25 of them, and likely the best player on the floor in 20-25 of them, as well.

GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

This guy averaged 48.5 minutes for a season. Take that in for a second. If his team was up by 20-30 points in the 4th he would play the whole 4th quarter just to pad his stats. Biggest stapadder of all time and it isn't even close.

The man averaged 45.8 mpg in his CAREER. Oh, and in the playoffs? How about 47.2 mpg?

And how about this example...

In his 62-63 season, he averaged 47.6 mpg, and 44.8 ppg...on a team that played in 54 games, out of 80, that were decided by single digits, and only EIGHT of which were 20+ margins (and 4-4 in those.)

Or this...

12 of his 32 60+ games came in games that were decided by single digits. His 78-43 game came in an OT game.

He had THREE 60+ point games, with a high of 73 points, against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy. He had FIVE 50+ point games against RUSSELL, with a high game of 62 (and a 50 point must-win playoff game, as well.)

SEVEN games of 60+ against the Lakers in the decade of the 60's, with highs of 78 and 72 points. Too bad he got the opportunity to face them in the playoffs, though.

BTW, Chamberlain played five games in five straight nights (two of which were on the road)...and played every minute of them, and averaged a combined 49.6 ppg. Oh, and in his next four games after that...he scored 284 more points...or 71 ppg in that span. Overall, playing in that nine game stretch, with never more than one day of rest...532 points, or a 59.1 ppg average.

In the 67-68 playoffs, an playing with a similar injury to what disabled Reed in the '70 Finals, Wilt had a stretch of three playoff games in three nights, and then played a seven game series against Boston, in which he averaged 22 ppg, and 25 rpg. Oh, and he played EVERY minute of both series (and 48.5 mpg BTW.)

And in his LAST season, he played 17 playoff games, and averaged 47.1 mpg...all at age 36. Oh, and he also averaged 22.5 rpg in that span. BTW, the next best post-season since? KAJ's '77 11 game run, in which he averaged 17.3 rpg.

Of course, Chamberlain was playing nearly every minute of every game his entire career, and even long after he was interested in scoring. But, yes, he was a "stats-padder."

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Beatlezz]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2963000/AlphaWolf-2963314_1611_930.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

How does this prove anything. The whole argument is that most people who played in the 60s were terrible and thus it was a weak era. Wilt on the other hand was basically the only NBA level player going up against said terrible players. How does posting the # 60 points by said terrible players disprove that? :oldlol:

In Wilt's 69-70 season, his COACH asked him to become a scorer again. He responded by leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%) in the first nine games. In that ninth game, Chamberlain had hung 33 points, in 28 minutes, and on 13-14 shooting from the field, when he shredded his knee.

In those nine games, he had that 33 point game; a 35 point game; a 37 point game (against 7-0 Tom Borwinkle); a 38 point game (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld); a 42 point game (against Bob Rule...go ahead and look him up); and a 43 point game (against Dierking...more on this in a moment.)

He also easily outplayed rookie KAJ in their only H2H before he shredded his knee. He outscored KAJ, 25-23; he outrebounded KAJ, 25-20; he outassisted KAJ, 5-2; he outblocked KAJ, 3-2; and he outshot KAJ from the floor, 9-14 to 9-21.

KAJ would go on to average 28.8 ppg in that regular season, and then a 35-17 .567 post-season run.

So, a 33 year old, near-prime Chamberlain, but past his peak, had a better season than a near-prime KAJ (who would PEAK in his next two seasons.)

Furthermore, KAJ played FOUR years IN the WILT-era, and 16 more seasons after that. His career HIGH game? 55 points. And, he faced several of the same centers that a prime Chamberlain had faced a few years earlier, and was NOWHERE NEAR as dominant against them, as a prime Wilt had been. Not even close.

Just the year before KAJ arrived, Wilt hung TWO 60+ point games...one a 66 point game on 29-35 shooting from the field, and the other a 60 point game on Connie Dierking. And again, in that '69-70 season, Chamberlain's high game was a 43 point game against Dierking. A prime KAJ faced Dierking on multiple occasions, and his HIGH game... 41 points.

KAJ's high game against Imhoff? 46 points. Wilt had entire SEASONS in which he averaged 50 ppg against Imhoff. Oh, and his high game... 100 points.

KAJ's high game against Willis Reed? 41 points. Chamberlain had a 12 game season against Reed in which he AVERAGED 39 ppg, including beatdowns by margins of 41-8, 46-25, 52-23, and 58-28.

KAJ's high game against Bellamy? In 24 career H2H's... 40 points (and then 39, and 33.) In a span of 20 straight games, a prime Chamberlain, going against a PEAK Bellamy, AVERAGED 48 ppg. In that span, he hung THREE games of 60+, including a 73-36 game. He was still hanging 50 point games on his years later, as well.

KAJ's HIGH game against a full-time Thurmond? 34 points. In fact, in 35 career H2H's, he had FIVE of 30+. BTW, in those 35 games, he shot a combined .447 from the field against Nate. In his greatest season, in the first round of the '72 playoffs, KAJ was outscored by Thurmond, 25 ppg to 22.8 ppg, and outshot from the field, .437 to .405 (yes, .405.)

How about a prime Wilt against a prime (and peak) Thurmond? In a span of 13 games, from the '64-65 season, thru the '65-66 season, and into the first game of the '66-67 season, Chamberlain had SEVEN games of 30+. Included were carpet bombings by margins of 38-15 and 45-13. Oh, and in his '67 season season, covering six H2H games, Wilt outscored Thurmond, 21 ppg to 13 ppg, and outshot Nate from the field by...get this... a .633 to .320 margin. And that was a Thurmond in his greatest season, too.


Of course, we know that an old KAJ, ages 38 and 39, and covering TEN STRAIGHT games, averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG% against Hakeem. In that span of 10 games, he had SEVEN of 30+, including games of 40, 43, and 46 points (and this was in only 37 minutes, and on 21-30 shooting.)

A 40 year old KAJ outscored a 25 year old Hakeem by a 17-16 ppg margin, and outshot him by a .563 to .403 margin in their four H2H's, as well.

Just some food for thought...

[Bless Mathews]

Wilt would be a starter in the NBA today.

[stanlove1111]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yhlETG9pkv4/VIUK8h9hF5I/AAAAAAAAFmc/Mdo3FublhFw/s800/nba-highest-scoring-games3OnlyWilt.jpghttps://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YdKQ-TUa1ZY/VIUK8doBNTI/AAAAAAAAFmU/9sdO5PgTCp8/s800/nba-highest-scoring-gamesminusWilt.jpg

Meaningless post unless put into context. Nobody else ever played the one man game plan with the object or having one guy score 50 a game. This poster will never understand that Bball is not like baseball where everyone gets up the same amount of times with the same goal..

The only time I can remember teams playing with the goal of getting a guy a ton of points was in 1978 with Gervin and Thompson..Look how much they scored..

Wilt was one of the greatest but he was a much better player in 1967 then when he was taking a ridiculous amount of shots to score 50 a game..

Poster never will understand context..

[Marchesk]

30 point games (Finals)
Jerry West -- 31
Michael Jordan -- 23
Elgin Baylor -- 19
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -- 16
Shaquille O'Neal -- 16
Bob Pettit -- 14
Kobe Bryant -- 13
Rick Barry -- 8
Hakeem Olajuwon -- 8
John Havlicek -- 8
Sam Jones -- 8
George Mikan -- 7
Dwyane Wade -- 7
Lebron James -- 7
Larry Bird -- 5
Julius Erving -- 5
James Worthy -- 5
Tom Heinsohn -- 5
Cliff Hagan -- 5
Wilt Chamberlain -- 4

So, West > Jordan and Baylor > Kobe? :confusedshrug:

Now why is it that West has the most 30 point finals, when Jordan has the most 30 pt playoff games? Because West played in more finals games, and Jordan in more playoff games.

[fpliii]

Meaningless post unless put into context. Nobody else ever played the one man game plan with the object or having one guy score 50 a game. This poster will never understand that Bball is not like baseball where everyone gets up the same amount of times with the same goal..

The only time I can remember teams playing with the goal of getting a guy a ton of points was in 1978 with Gervin and Thompson..Look how much they scored..

Wilt was one of the greatest but he was a much better player in 1967 then when he was taking a ridiculous amount of shots to score 50 a game..

Poster never will understand context..
That was only the case during the 61-62 season though. It stands out from the rest. Some quotes...

From Coach McGuire:

[quote]"We aren't as good as Boston

[Marchesk]

Total Playoff Games
Kobe - 220
Mike - 179
Wilt - 160
Lebron - 158
West - 153
Baylor - 134

30 pt games every X playoff games
Mike - 1.65
West - 2.07
Baylor - 2.23
Kobe - 2.5
Lebron - 2.59
Wilt - 3.8

BUT, if we break Wilt's 160 games down, only 36 came during his prime scoring years on the Warriors. On the 76ers with a more balanced team, he played a different role and you can see that his assists, rebounding and FG% went up in the playoffs as his scoring goes down compared to his first years on the Warriors.

Prime Playoff Scoring (depending on where you draw the line):
Jordan - 35.99
Baylor - 35.68
Wilt - 34.6
West - 33.15
Kobe - 29.54
Lebron: 28.6

Baylor and West were making it to the finals every year in their scoring primes, and Wilt only got to do this once for the Golden State Warriors, and he had to face Russell (as opposed to facing him in the EDF). It would be like if Gary Payton (or a healty Moncrief Jordan's age) on the Pistons was waiting for MJ most of his career.

Wilt's playoff scoring might look a little different if he started his career in the West, or his teams had been able to win a couple of those close Game 7 series against the Celtics. The Lakers didn't have a Russell or Thurmond at center to slow Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

Meaningless post unless put into context. Nobody else ever played the one man game plan with the object or having one guy score 50 a game. This poster will never understand that Bball is not like baseball where everyone gets up the same amount of times with the same goal..

The only time I can remember teams playing with the goal of getting a guy a ton of points was in 1978 with Gervin and Thompson..Look how much they scored..

Wilt was one of the greatest but he was a much better player in 1967 then when he was taking a ridiculous amount of shots to score 50 a game..

Poster never will understand context..

Chamberlain led the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and FG% (along with 5.2 apg, and likly 8+ bpg), in his 65-66 season. BTW, that team would go on to have the best record in the league. And, as ALWAYS, if he wanted to hang a 60+ point game, he did so.

He missed one game that season, and his team was blown out by the Celtics. And in their nine other regular season games against Boston, they went 6-3. And in those regular season H2H's against Russell, he averaged 28.3 ppg and 30.7 rpg (on a .473 FG%.)

True, they were wiped out by Boston in the EDF's, 4-1...but in that series Chamberlain averaged 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, and shot .509 from the field. In the clinching game five defeat, he slaughtered a helpless Russell with a 46-34 game.

How did his TEAM lose that series? His teammates collectively shot .352 from the field (yes, .352 from the field!)

[LAZERUSS]

That was only the case during the 61-62 season though. It stands out from the rest. Some quotes...

From Coach McGuire:







Obviously from the last quote, Wilt was complicit in the 48 minutes thing. I think it's safe to say that he also didn't have a huge problem aiming for 50 points a night:



Wilt still has 15 (by my count) games of 60+ completely ignoring that season.

Also, regarding the second bolded statement, same thing happened with the Admiral iirc.

As always...great research, and another great post.

The REALITY was, Chamberlain was single-handedly carrying pathetic rosters to within an eyelash of beating Russell's Celtics, twice early in his career. And had he not been injured at the end of game two in the '60 EDF's, he likely at least gets that team to a game seven against Boston, instead of a game six two point loss. And in the '64 Finals, and with virtually no help, his team lost Russell and his SEVEN other HOF teammates, 4-1, but the last two losses were in the waning seconds...and in a series in which he owned Russell.

Without Wilt's monumental efforts in those years, his teams would have been languishing in last plac, and not even sniffing the playoffs (or even being competitive.)

[julizaver]

I think that knowledgeble posters had long enough debunked the myth that Wilt was not strong playoff performer/choked during clutch games.
There is so more evidence /even video to the contrary.

No matter how great a player is, it is not possible for a single person to carry a team singlehandlily to title when the game is played 5 by 5. And the prove is Wilt - he was the most dominant player in proffesional basketball - no question about it !!! He played 7 game series vs the best defense of his era and was guarded by the consensus best defender center in the history. His early teams lack the quality, lack the depth in bench. He changed teams, cities, teamates, coaches. He joined the worst roster in NBA in 1959 and made them instantly a title contender.

Yes he had his lows and faults, but put asside his dominance/presence and his teams are doomed.

Lakers had two of the greatest all-time players in the history of the game (Baylor and West) and they were not able to beat the Celtics team full of HOFs and their HOF coach.

And there is a list of all-time greats who won nothing, so winning "only 2 rings", in the presence of greatest ever Celtics, Knicks and Bucks rosters is not quite an underachievement for me. If there was no Wilt Celtics will be winning not 8 but 11 in row, Bucks winning 2 in a row and starting a dynasty, Jerry West goes down without ring and so on. And what about Russell be with Warriors and Wilt with Celtics ??? Do the Warriors ever stood a chance against the Celtics ?

[Helix]

I think that knowledgeble posters had long enough debunked the myth that Wilt was not strong playoff performer/choked during clutch games.
There is so more evidence /even video to the contrary.

No matter how great a player is, it is not possible for a single person to carry a team singlehandlily to title when the game is played 5 by 5. And the prove is Wilt - he was the most dominant player in proffesional basketball - no question about it !!! He played 7 game series vs the best defense of his era and was guarded by the consensus best defender center in the history. His early teams lack the quality, lack the depth in bench. He changed teams, cities, teamates, coaches. He joined the worst roster in NBA in 1959 and made them instantly a title contender.

Yes he had his lows and faults, but put asside his dominance/presence and his teams are doomed.

Lakers had two of the greatest all-time players in the history of the game (Baylor and West) and they were not able to beat the Celtics team full of HOFs and their HOF coach.

And there is a list of all-time greats who won nothing, so winning "only 2 rings", in the presence of greatest ever Celtics, Knicks and Bucks rosters is not quite an underachievement for me. If there was no Wilt Celtics will be winning not 8 but 11 in row, Bucks winning 2 in a row and starting a dynasty, Jerry West goes down without ring and so on. And what about Russell be with Warriors and Wilt with Celtics ??? Do the Warriors ever stood a chance against the Celtics ?


Nope, not a chance.

[STATUTORY]

100 points
10,000 women
at least one mountain lion

a lot of superlatives for a guy that ultimately had only 2 rings and no verified girlfriend/wives/kids

dude was always compensating for something

[CeltsGarlic]

This guy averaged 48.5 minutes for a season. Take that in for a second. If his team was up by 20-30 points in the 4th he would play the whole 4th quarter just to pad his stats. Biggest stapadder of all time and it isn't even close.

Some say most of the 4th quarters he wasnt even getting back on D as he was exhausted but refused to sit so he could continue to pad his stats.

[CavaliersFTW]

Some say most of the 4th quarters he wasnt even getting back on D as he was exhausted but refused to sit so he could continue to pad his stats.
"Some say"

:rolleyes:

By all accounts I've ever seen Wilt never got exhausted, nor has any account ever mentioned he "refused" to play defense, he was dominant on both ends. I'm going to have to ask you to cite anything you say from here on out because it sounds like you just make shit up on the fly.

[La Frescobaldi]

Some say most of the 4th quarters he wasnt even getting back on D as he was exhausted but refused to sit so he could continue to pad his stats.
Who exactly?

Who claims Chamberlain was a snowbird?

Reference, link, video or it didn't happen because I never even heard it let alone ever saw it.

[fpliii]

Yeah, which season specifically was Wilt stated to stay in games to accumulate stats regularly? I have PDFs most of the game synopses for Wilt's career archived on a thumb drive, so if there's evidence of this, it would be mentioned in articles about games, don't you think?

Russell (the best player ever IMO) said he played as many minutes as possible because it was his job to do so, and the fans came to see him. Was he intentionally accumulating stats in blowouts as well...?

[Psileas]

Yeah, which season specifically was Wilt stated to stay in games to accumulate stats regularly? I have PDFs most of the game synopses for Wilt's career archived on a thumb drive, so if there's evidence of this, it would be mentioned in articles about games, don't you think?

Russell (the best player ever IMO) said he played as many minutes as possible because it was his job to do so, and the fans came to see him. Was he intentionally accumulating stats in blowouts as well...?

This is more evidence that people commenting on Wilt's minutes ignore lots of context of the era. Star players would routinely play in whole or almost whole games that would be blowouts just for the sake of the fans who came to see them and the emerging NBA trying to gain popularity. Wilt still usually led the league in MPG, but not by blowout margins (say, 47 mpg to 40 mpg for the runner-up), so the stat-padding argument could be used by both sides - not to mention that when "exhaustion" that someone mentioned kicks in, padding for totals comes at the expense of per minute production and efficiency.


Some say most of the 4th quarters he wasnt even getting back on D as he was exhausted but refused to sit so he could continue to pad his stats.

Right, now imagine how high Wilt's PER would be if he didn't play all those minutes he was "exhausted" and produced at slower rates. Exospheric. :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

Some say most of the 4th quarters he wasnt even getting back on D as he was exhausted but refused to sit so he could continue to pad his stats.


Chamberlain's resting heart rate was 38 bpm.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=20000324&id=VGRWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NvIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1803,1675396


and a 62 year old Wilt was still running marathons...

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/apr/11/sports/sp-26445


BTW, in the 4th quarter of th clinching game six win over Kareem's Bucks in the '72 WCF's, a 35 year old Wilt not only pounded a helpless 25 year old KAJ into submission, ...he was also running an exhausted Kareem into the ground.


Oh, and we know that Chamberlain had seasons of 25+ rpg, and most certainly 8+ bpg (and a younger Wilt likely was blocking 10+)...so IF he were truly "not getting back on D" (which, of course was a blatant lie), then he must have been putting up those staggering numbers in only three quarters. Furthermore, the overwhelming evidence we have suggests that Wilt was holding his opposing centers to around a career 40% (or less) FG%. So, if this "stats-padder" wasn't get back on defense in the 4th quarters, he must have pretty much held his opponents to practically 0% shooting in the first three periods of every game. Now, can you imagine the numbers that a Wilt, committed to just rebounding and defense, would have been putting up for full games? Something along the lines of 30-35 rpg, and 12-15 bpg??!!!!


The REALITY was, Chamberlain simply NEVER tired. The man was probably the most amazing ATHLETE of all-time. He was a SPRINTER, HIGH JUMPER, and LONG JUMPER, among other track events at Kansas U. He was benching staggering weights in his day, and was likely the strongest basketball player of all-time.

Hell, a 50 year old Wilt was STILL receiving LEGITIMATE offers to play in the NBA, and before someone scoffs at the idea...take a look at this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAyN1LZNXfw


It all adds up to yet another crushing blow to the "myths" perpetrated by the "Wilt-bashers."

[LAZERUSS]

Some say most of the 4th quarters he wasnt even getting back on D as he was exhausted but refused to sit so he could continue to pad his stats.

Reminds me of the MYTH that Chamberlain "quit playing defense when he got into foul trouble."

[CavaliersFTW]

Reminds me of the MYTH that Chamberlain "quit playing defense when he got into foul trouble."
Wilt in foul trouble is funny to say as it is :oldlol:

Wilt was in foul trouble how often? Once every other season? :lol

[LAZERUSS]

I think that knowledgeble posters had long enough debunked the myth that Wilt was not strong playoff performer/choked during clutch games.
There is so more evidence /even video to the contrary.

No matter how great a player is, it is not possible for a single person to carry a team singlehandlily to title when the game is played 5 by 5. And the prove is Wilt - he was the most dominant player in proffesional basketball - no question about it !!! He played 7 game series vs the best defense of his era and was guarded by the consensus best defender center in the history. His early teams lack the quality, lack the depth in bench. He changed teams, cities, teamates, coaches. He joined the worst roster in NBA in 1959 and made them instantly a title contender.

Yes he had his lows and faults, but put asside his dominance/presence and his teams are doomed.

Lakers had two of the greatest all-time players in the history of the game (Baylor and West) and they were not able to beat the Celtics team full of HOFs and their HOF coach.

And there is a list of all-time greats who won nothing, so winning "only 2 rings", in the presence of greatest ever Celtics, Knicks and Bucks rosters is not quite an underachievement for me. If there was no Wilt Celtics will be winning not 8 but 11 in row, Bucks winning 2 in a row and starting a dynasty, Jerry West goes down without ring and so on. And what about Russell be with Warriors and Wilt with Celtics ??? Do the Warriors ever stood a chance against the Celtics ?

None other than John Wooden claimed that it would have been Wilt holding all those rings, had the two swapped rosters and coaches in their careers.

[plowking]

What Wilt did was impressive but why does the OP insist on comparing it with the modern game?

Basketball was a young product with a great deal of growth and room for improvement to happen in Wilt's time. Basketball schemes on the defensive and offensive sides were not proficient, players were not in the best shape, nor was the dedication of every input that goes into the game there as it is today.

It's like you trying to tell me that a Ferrari from the 1940's is quicker than a Toyota 86 today, just because it is a Ferrari. We know it isn't the case, but OP is too thick to realize.

[LAZERUSS]

What Wilt did was impressive but why does the OP insist on comparing it with the modern game?

Basketball was a young product with a great deal of growth and room for improvement to happen in Wilt's time. Basketball schemes on the defensive and offensive sides were not proficient, players were not in the best shape, nor was the dedication of every input that goes into the game there as it is today.

It's like you trying to tell me that a Ferrari from the 1940's is quicker than a Toyota 86 today, just because it is a Ferrari. We know it isn't the case, but OP is too thick to realize.

A PEAK Kareem played FOUR years IN the Wilt era, and never approached his pure domination. Furthermore, an OLD Kareem badly outplayed a young Hakeem. Hell, even at 40, in their four H2H games, he easily outplayed a 25 year old Hakeem.

[plowking]

A PEAK Kareem played FOUR years IN the Wilt era, and never approached his pure domination. Furthermore, an OLD Kareem badly outplayed a young Hakeem. Hell, even at 40, in their four H2H games, he easily outplayed a 25 year old Hakeem.

What has this got to do with anything? As we have moved on, individual peak scoring seasons on average have gone down. Wilt wouldn't set those records playing in this era. That is a fact.

[LAZERUSS]

What has this got to do with anything? As we have moved on, individual peak scoring seasons on average have gone down. Wilt wouldn't set those records playing in this era. That is a fact.

How do you KNOW that?

Think about this...

when Chamberlain came into the NBA, the scoring record was 29.2 ppg. Do you honestly think that ANYONE in the league AT THE TIME would have envisioned a player scoring 50 ppg with 100 point games?

And, as was clearly shown, it was ONLY Chamberlain who was putting up those staggering numbers.

As for Kareem...a 38-39 year old KAJ, as late as 1986, was dumping multiple 40 point games on Hakeem, and doing so with unfathomable efficiency.

A declining Chamberlain, in his 11th season, was LEADING the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%) as late as the 69-70 season...the same year that rookie Kareem came into the league (and averaged 28.8 ppg in the regular season, and 35.2 ppg in the playoffs.) A PEAK Kareem would score 35 ppg a few years later.

Hakeem would go on to shot-jack to a 33 ppg Finals, on 30 FGAs per game, in an era of 80 TEAM FGAs. Hell, Shaq, as recently as 2000 was scoring 38 ppg in the Finals.


A motivated Wilt would certainly have blown Shaq's best seasons away, so 35 ppg seasons would easily be possible. Furthermore, Wilt's '62 season translates to 41 ppg in TODAY's era.

[CavaliersFTW]

What has this got to do with anything? As we have moved on, individual peak scoring seasons on average have gone down. Wilt wouldn't set those records playing in this era. That is a fact.
Minus Wilt, 60 point performances were higher in the '00's than in any other decade. Fact. :cheers:

[DatAsh]

Ignore pace, just look at how far above everyone else at the time he was.

Quoting a few different people different people here so bear with me.


Wilt also has the greatest ppg drop off from the regular season to the postseason/Finals

And yet he came with in just a few points of beating much more talented teams that creamed him in the regular season with him averaging 50ppg.


Note how balanced these 60+ point scoring performances/performers are distributed accross the "era's".

Wilt was further above his peers statistically than anyone else in history, and it's not close.


In the playoffs? MIA
Wilt's role often changed dramatically in the playoffs; his stats are a result of that change.



"I had meetings with each of the players. We talked about their careers and about the team. I said that Wilt was the most dominant force in basketball history and I wanted him to get the ball two-thirds of the time."

So dumb :facepalm


BUT, if we break Wilt's 160 games down, only 36 came during his prime scoring years on the Warriors

Don't mean to pick on you, but I hate when people call Wilt's Warrior years his "prime scoring years".

Wilt's "prime" scoring years were with the 76ers. There he was actually scoring within a focused offense and setting up his teammates tremendously in the process. Warrior's Wilt just held the ball more and shot more.

[plowking]

Minus Wilt, 60 point performances were higher in the '00's than in any other decade. Fact. :cheers:

A nice outlier going against all other evidence, and that doesn't even address my point.

[plowking]

How do you KNOW that?

I watch basketball. I can see it is a much better product now. I can see it is much more refined. I can see the players are a lot better. I can see that a coach wouldn't allow a player to do what he did back in the day on the premise it won't put wins on the board.


when Chamberlain came into the NBA, the scoring record was 29.2 ppg. Do you honestly think that ANYONE in the league AT THE TIME would have envisioned a player scoring 50 ppg with 100 point games?

Think about this. The NBA was still young and experiencing growth and innovation as a product. Not to mention it wasn't fully integrated...


And, as was clearly shown, it was ONLY Chamberlain who was putting up those staggering numbers.

32/19 aren't staggering numbers to you? That's what Walt Bellamy put up the season Wilt put up 50ppg. Oh, he did it as a freaking rookie to. Based on the premise, Walt Bellamy as a rookie is better than peak Shaq ever was. Right? That sounds fair. See how many people agree with you.




A motivated Wilt would certainly have blown Shaq's best seasons away, so 35 ppg seasons would easily be possible. Furthermore, Wilt's '62 season translates to 41 ppg in TODAY's era.

No it doesn't. Given you aren't taking any other circumstances into account.

[LAZERUSS]

The list is nearly endless, but here is just a SMALL sample of Chamberlain's domination ...




Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplished that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)



As a sidenote...a PEAK Kareem played FOUR years IN the Wilt era, and 16 seasons after that. His career HIGH scoring game... 55 points. Oh, and a 39 year old Kareem dumped 46 points, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes, on a 24 year old Hakeem.

Again...why ONLY Wilt?

[LAZERUSS]

I watch basketball. I can see it is a much better product now. I can see it is much more refined. I can see the players are a lot better. I can see that a coach wouldn't allow a player to do what he did back in the day on the premise it won't put wins on the board.



Think about this. The NBA was still young and experiencing growth and innovation as a product. Not to mention it wasn't fully integrated...



32/19 aren't staggering numbers to you? That's what Walt Bellamy put up the season Wilt put up 50ppg. Oh, he did it as a freaking rookie to. Based on the premise, Walt Bellamy as a rookie is better than peak Shaq ever was. Right? That sounds fair. See how many people agree with you.





No it doesn't. Given you aren't taking any other circumstances into account.

Hmmm, basketball was invented in the early 1890's, Played by colleges in the late 1890's. Played Professionally since the 1920's. Other than the 24 second clock, in the mid-50's, and the 3pt shot in the late 70's, the game is essentially played the EXACT same as the day it was invented.

It has slowly evolved, but when a 6-8 Kevin Love runs away with a rebounding title (and in only 35 mpg); or a 37 year old Nash, playing 33 mpg, easily wins an assist title; or a broken down 6-11 Bogut leads the NBA in bpg; or a Rubio shoots .357 from the field...all only a few seasons ago...sorry, but it is not much different all.


BTW, the NBA was almost fully integrated by the late 60's...and again, Chamberlain was scoring 32.2 ppg on a .579 FG% as late as the 69-70 season, and past his peak. Furthermore, Chamberlain had 40 ppg seasons against RUSSELL, and 50 ppg seasons against BELLAMY.

And how about this...in Wilt's LAST season, in 72-73, and at age 36...




vs. Reed in 3 regular season H2H's:

Reed: 12.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, .471 FG%

Wilt: 6.3 ppg, 23.3 rpg, .529 FG%

vs. Reed in 5 Finals' H2H's:

Reed: 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, .493 FG%

Wilt: 11.6 ppg, 18.6 rpg, .525 FG%


vs. Bellamy in 4 H2H's:

Bellamy: 17.0 ppg, 18.0 rpg ( 2 known games), .400 FG% (2 known game)

Wilt: 9.8 ppg, 20.5 rpg, .593 FG%


vs. Unseld in 4 H2H's:

Unseld: 12.8 ppg, 15.3 rpg, .481 FG%

Wilt: 12.8 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .769 FG%


vs. McAdoo in 4 H2H's:

McAdoo: 16.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, .450 FG% (3 known games)

Wilt: 20.5 ppg, 21.3 rpg, .850 FG%


vs. Thurmond in 7 regular season H2H's:

Thurmond: 12.3 ppg, 21.6 rpg, .315 FG%

Wilt: 5.1 ppg, 16.6 rpg, .684 FG%

vs. Thurmond in 5 playoff H2H's:

Thurmond: 15.8 ppg, 17.2 rpg, .373 FG%

Wilt: 7.0 ppg, 23.6 rpg, .611 FG%


vs. Lanier in 6 H2H's:

Lanier: 21.2 ppg, 13.4 rpg (5 known games), .374 FG% (5 known games)

Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 16.3 rpg, .764 FG%



vs. Kareem in 6 H2H's:

Kareem: 29.5 ppg, 17.8 rpg, .450 FG%

Wilt: 11.0 ppg, 16.0 rpg, .737 FG%



Keep in mind that most all of those centers dominated the 70's, and in KAJ's case, into the 80's.

[julizaver]

Hmmm, basketball was invented in the early 1890's, Played by colleges in the late 1890's. Played Professionally since the 1920's. Other than the 24 second clock, in the mid-50's, and the 3pt shot in the late 70's, the game is essentially played the EXACT same as the day it was invented.

It has slowly evolved, but when a 6-8 Kevin Love runs away with a rebounding title (and in only 35 mpg); or a 37 year old Nash, playing 33 mpg, easily wins an assist title; or a broken down 6-11 Bogut leads the NBA in bpg; or a Rubio shoots .357 from the field...all only a few seasons ago...sorry, but it is not much different all.


BTW, the NBA was almost fully integrated by the late 60's...and again, Chamberlain was scoring 32.2 ppg on a .579 FG% as late as the 69-70 season, and past his peak. Furthermore, Chamberlain had 40 ppg seasons against RUSSELL, and 50 ppg seasons against BELLAMY.

And how about this...in Wilt's LAST season, in 72-73, and at age 36...



Keep in mind that most all of those centers dominated the 70's, and in KAJ's case, into the 80's.

As a sidenote, I have read that Wilt missed the pre-season in 1973 and joined the Lakers prior to the season begining,and according to Sharman he blocked 10 shots in his very first game. Unnoficially he led the league in blocked shots with 392 blocks after 70 games (5.6 bpg). Obviously was dominating presence in defense as you can see by his opponents drop in FG %.
And his rebounding and shot-blocking in the playoffs was devastating - he allegedly blocked 70 shots in his first 10 post-season games.

[LAZERUSS]

As a sidenote, I have read that Wilt missed the pre-season in 1973 and joined the Lakers prior to the season begining,and according to Sharman he blocked 10 shots in his very first game. Unnoficially he led the league in blocked shots with 392 blocks after 70 games (5.6 bpg). Obviously was dominating presence in defense as you can see by his opponents drop in FG %.
And his rebounding and shot-blocking in the playoffs was devastating - he allegedly blocked 70 shots in his first 10 post-season games.

As great as he was in his 71-72 season, his 72-73 season might have been even better. He outplayed every starting center he faced that year, except Cowens (and he still held Cowens below his normal FG%), and a near peak Kareem (who only shot .450 against him in their six H2H's.) And he held virtually ALL of them below their normal FG%'s, and some dramatically, like KAJ, Thurmond and a prime Lanier.

I suspect that he blocked more shots in 71-72, though. I honestly believe it was around 7 bpg that year. But, even your numbers suggest that he was right there with the all-time "official" leader in a season (Eaton, 12 years later, and 5.56 bpg.)

And his post-season rebounding was just incredible in 72-73, as well. He played in 17 playoff games, and an almost unfathomable 47.1 mpg (which was BELOW his career post-season average of 47.2), and averaged 22.5 rpg, in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg. Furthermore, he single-handedly crushed the Bulls trio of Awtry, Boerwinkle, and Ray, 172-95 (their total minutes were equal to Wilt's.) And Boerwinkle was one of the best TRB% centers of his era, too. In fact, Chamberlain held him to 9 rebounds in his 30 total minutes, or a 14.4 rpg/48, for a career 21rpg/48 post-season player.

Then, he wiped the floor with Thurmond in the WCF's. Keep in mind that Nate had finished second in rebounding to Wilt during the regular season (Wilt led the league at 18.6 rpg, while Nate was next at 17.1 rpg.) In their playoff series, Chamberlain outrebounded him by a 23.6 to 17.2 rpg margin.

And in the Finals, Wilt outrebounded the combo of Reed and Lucas by a 93-69 margin.

We know that Wilt was easily the greatest post-season rebounder of all-time, and he was also likely the greatest post-season shot-blocker of all-time. Your research has him with a known 570 blocks in 80 of his 160 games (and most of the rest of the other 80 games came early in his career, when he likely blocking even more), which would beats Duncan's current "official" record of 545 in 223 games.

In any case, an old Wilt, at nowhere near his peak (nor defensive peak, which occurred in the mid-to-late 60's), probably had a top-10 all-time defensive season (and only Russell and Wilt in the 60's would have had better ones.)

[La Frescobaldi]

What Wilt did was impressive but why does the OP insist on comparing it with the modern game?

Basketball was a young product with a great deal of growth and room for improvement to happen in Wilt's time. Basketball schemes on the defensive and offensive sides were not proficient, players were not in the best shape, nor was the dedication of every input that goes into the game there as it is today.

It's like you trying to tell me that a Ferrari from the 1940's is quicker than a Toyota 86 today, just because it is a Ferrari. We know it isn't the case, but OP is too thick to realize.
Not arguing any of that but they were infinitely cooler than any ghastly bland looking Toyota bubble car

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/200909/ferrari-166-sw.jpg

Top speed around 105 or 110 off the shelf.

This one is my all-time favorite Ferrari I saw one once on the German A-5 Autobahn!!!

http://autobodysandyutah.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/1957_Ferrari_250_TR_02_0.jpg

edit ~ no i just looked at map lol it was on A-7 not A-5.
outside of Nuremburg. That thing didn't roll, it sailed lol

[MavsSuperFan]

Of course wilt is going to put up incredible stats. He was doing it against guys that had to work second/off season jobs.

It would be like lebron dominating a semi pro league.

If you went and beat up 100 kindergartners, would that make you the best fighter of all time?

[DaRkJaWs]

Of course wilt is going to put up incredible stats. He was doing it against guys that had to work second/off season jobs.

It would be like lebron dominating a semi pro league.

If you went and beat up 100 kindergartners, would that make you the best fighter of all time?
Isn't it nice of you to ignore size differences even today? Wilt was a legit 7'1, tell me who is going to stop him or go by him on the defensive side? I'll tell you right now that the only saving grace players today that would prevent wilt from making them look like the children they are compared to him, it's tightly calling that 3 second rule.

[LAZERUSS]

Of course wilt is going to put up incredible stats. He was doing it against guys that had to work second/off season jobs.

It would be like lebron dominating a semi pro league.

If you went and beat up 100 kindergartners, would that make you the best fighter of all time?

Can you tell what other jobs centers like Russell, Bellamy, Reed, and Thurmond were working? You know, the same centers that Chamberlain routinely CRUSHED in his prime.

Yeah...HOF centers, like Russell and Thurmond, who were most certainly among the greatest defensive centers in NBA history. The same Thurmond who routinely shut down a prime Kareem, but yet whom a prime Chamberlain just annihilated.

And the same Kareem at ages 38-40 who was just murdering a helpless 23-25 year old Hakeem?

[MavsSuperFan]

Isn't it nice of you to ignore size differences even today? Wilt was a legit 7'1, tell me who is going to stop him or go by him on the defensive side? I'll tell you right now that the only saving grace players today that would prevent wilt from making them look like the children they are compared to him, it's tightly calling that 3 second rule.
I actually think Wilt would be an elite player today.

But his ridiculous stats are the result of playing against really flawed competition

[LAZERUSS]

Isn't it nice of you to ignore size differences even today? Wilt was a legit 7'1, tell me who is going to stop him or go by him on the defensive side? I'll tell you right now that the only saving grace players today that would prevent wilt from making them look like the children they are compared to him, it's tightly calling that 3 second rule.

Can you imagine the damage that a prime Chamberlain could do to an NBA where a 6-9 1/2 Dwight Howard is the best center in the game? Where a broken down 6-11 Andrew Bogut can lead the league in bpg? Or where a 6-8 non-athletic white guy like Love runs away with a rebounding title? Where a 6-6 Chuck Hayes has been a STARTER at times? Where a statue like Hibbert starts, and makes a guy like DeAndre Jordan look like a peak Moses? The same DeAndre who couldn't shoot from three feet away to save his life?

BTW, take a look at the nightly box-scores, and see just how many teams don't even have a legitimate center on the floor for much of their games. It is truly a laughable period for the center position.

[CavaliersFTW]

I actually think Wilt would be an elite player today.

But his ridiculous stats are the result of playing against really flawed competition
Kareem played against the guy Wilt scored 100 points on... Same exact competition. What's your excuse for why he didn't crush him like Wilt?

[LAZERUSS]

I actually think Wilt would be an elite player today.

But his ridiculous stats are the result of playing against really flawed competition

Yeah...again, entire seasons, covering 10+ games each against the likes of Reed, Bellamy, and Russell, and hanging 40 ppg on them. Or outshooting a PEAK Thurmond by DOUBLE from the field in their regular season H2H's.

A Chamberlain, who in his LAST two seasons, covering 11 straight games, averaged 24 ppg on a .760 FG% against the 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier (BTW, he held a Prime Lanier to a .374 FG% in their six H2H games in his LAST season.)

[DatAsh]

This is more evidence that people commenting on Wilt's minutes ignore lots of context of the era. Star players would routinely play in whole or almost whole games that would be blowouts just for the sake of the fans who came to see them and the emerging NBA trying to gain popularity. Wilt still usually led the league in MPG, but not by blowout margins (say, 47 mpg to 40 mpg for the runner-up), so the stat-padding argument could be used by both sides - not to mention that when "exhaustion" that someone mentioned kicks in, padding for totals comes at the expense of per minute production and efficiency.


It was just a different era, with an all-together different mentality on star player minutes, as you mentioned.

[Asukal]

How do you KNOW that?

Think about this...

when Chamberlain came into the NBA, the scoring record was 29.2 ppg. Do you honestly think that ANYONE in the league AT THE TIME would have envisioned a player scoring 50 ppg with 100 point games?

And, as was clearly shown, it was ONLY Chamberlain who was putting up those staggering numbers.

As for Kareem...a 38-39 year old KAJ, as late as 1986, was dumping multiple 40 point games on Hakeem, and doing so with unfathomable efficiency.

A declining Chamberlain, in his 11th season, was LEADING the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%) as late as the 69-70 season...the same year that rookie Kareem came into the league (and averaged 28.8 ppg in the regular season, and 35.2 ppg in the playoffs.) A PEAK Kareem would score 35 ppg a few years later.

Hakeem would go on to shot-jack to a 33 ppg Finals, on 30 FGAs per game, in an era of 80 TEAM FGAs. Hell, Shaq, as recently as 2000 was scoring 38 ppg in the Finals.


A motivated Wilt would certainly have blown Shaq's best seasons away, so 35 ppg seasons would easily be possible. Furthermore, Wilt's '62 season translates to 41 ppg in TODAY's era.

Everything is easy for Wilt except win rings. :rolleyes:

[julizaver]

Of course wilt is going to put up incredible stats. He was doing it against guys that had to work second/off season jobs.



:) - Just another sidenote - Wilt had a lot of bussiness activities during his playing career, he was running a nightclub and was playing on stock markets. It was his claim that what he earn for an year in basketball he could lose it in one week at the stock market. Shaq was also involved in rap, commercials and movies and so on. So it is not a valid argument.



It would be like lebron dominating a semi pro league.

If you went and beat up 100 kindergartners, would that make you the best fighter of all time?

How we are going to rate a player who at his playing days made his opponents (fellow proffesionals) look like "100 kindergartners" or "guys that had to work second/off season jobs" ?

[Psileas]

:) - Just another sidenote - Wilt had a lot of bussiness activities during his playing career, he was running a nightclub and was playing on stock markets. It was his claim that what he earn for an year in basketball he could lose it in one week at the stock market. Shaq was also involved in rap, commercials and movies and so on. So it is not a valid argument.

And he did it during the actual season at times, his teams accusing him of spending too much time on off-court distractions - his amateurish opponents let a part timer dominate them...:lol

[AceManIII]

If only Wilt's will to win matched his scoring ability/athleticism

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061016144625/uncyclopedia/images/e/e5/Godot_drink.gif

[LAZERUSS]

If only Wilt's will to win matched his scoring ability/athleticism

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061016144625/uncyclopedia/images/e/e5/Godot_drink.gif

Chamberlain in his 23 post-season "must-win" games...

31.1 ppg
26.3 rpg
.540 FG%

[senelcoolidge]

Stated already, but how many teams did Wilt take to the finals and conference finals. Team that without him would have not had any chance of going that far. Some of those teams lost by a mere few points. It's not as easy as people think it is to win championships. Especially during the Celtic dynasty run of the 60's.

[SpanishACB]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yhlETG9pkv4/VIUK8h9hF5I/AAAAAAAAFmc/Mdo3FublhFw/s800/nba-highest-scoring-games3OnlyWilt.jpghttps://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YdKQ-TUa1ZY/VIUK8doBNTI/AAAAAAAAFmU/9sdO5PgTCp8/s800/nba-highest-scoring-gamesminusWilt.jpg

too bad points in one particular game don't win you champonships.

Or else you would have other thousands of Wilt fanboys and you would have to choose something else to have that delusion of identity and snowflake uniqueness.

[DaRkJaWs]

too bad points in one particular game don't win you champonships.

Or else you would have other thousands of Wilt fanboys and you would have to choose something else to have that delusion of identity and snowflake uniqueness.
Listen up n1g, if Anthony Davis had even 10 (never mind 1) 50 point games this season you'd be all up over and in his @$$ and you know it, you pathetic excuse for a rational thinking human being. Now buzz off.

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem played against the guy Wilt scored 100 points on... Same exact competition. What's your excuse for why he didn't crush him like Wilt?

THIS!

Of course we know that an early 60's Chamberlain ROUTINELY shelled a young Imhoff. The 100 point game was well known, but even Imhoff, himself, claimed that he had one of his greatest games of his career just a couple of nights after that 100 point barrage.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


Darrall Imhoff, who as a 6-foot-10 rookie center for the New York Knicks had the misfortune of guarding Chamberlain during his 100-point game in 1962, said, "I spent 12 years in his armpits, and I always carried that 100-point game on my shoulders. "After I got my third foul, I said to one of the officials, Willy Smith, 'Why don't you just give him 100 points and we'll all go home?' Well, we did." Two nights later, at Madison Square Garden, Chamberlain tried to go for the century mark again. But Imhoff 'held' him to 54 points. The fans gave Imhoff a standing ovation. "He was an amazing, strong man," Imhoff said. "I always said the greatest record he ever held wasn't 100 points, but his 55 rebounds against Bill Russell. Those two players changed the whole game of basketball. The game just took an entire step up to the next level." Stewart, Larry (1999-10-13). "Giant Towered Over the Rest". The Los Angeles Times


BTW, it was not 54 points, but rather 58 points.

In fact, just in that 61-62 season, alone, Chamberlain had NINE games of 50+ points against Imhoff, including games of 58, 59, 59, 67, and the 100 point explosion.


Fast forward to 69-70, when rookie Kareem faced off against Imhoff. KAJ (Alcindor) averaged 28.8 ppg against Imhoff in their six regular season H2H's.

And I have long maintained that Kareem hit his PEAK by the second half of his rookie season. From the second half of his rookie season, thru the playoffs, and then thru the entire 70-71 regular season and post-season, and then thru his entire 71-72 regular season, KAJ was at his absolute peak.

In the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, KAJ went H2H with Imhoff in five playoff games, and just plastered Darrell. He outscored Imhoff, 36.2 to 9.0 ppg, and on a .583 FG%. He also hung his career high game against Imhoff, of 46 points, on 18-36 from the field. BTW, KAJ went on to average a playoff career high of 35.2 ppg on a .567 FG% in that post-season.

Now, as a side-note, obviously the 46 point game was KAJ's high game against Imhoff, and in their 15 other career H2H games, Kareem's next highest scoring game against Imhoff, was 36 points, which he did twice.

As dominant as that was, here is some food for thought.

Again, that was in the 69-70 season.

Ah, the 69-70 season. Chamberlain's new coach, Joe Mullaney, after viewing the carnage left by his predecessor, the incompetent Butch "the Butcher" Van Breda Kolff, immediately went to Wilt before the start of the 69-70 season, and asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the offense. And, as I have mentioned before, Wilt relished the role, and was leading the NBA in scoring in his first nine games, at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%), when tragically, he shredded his knee, and was never the same offensive terror that he had been before.

However, in Wilt's very first game of that 69-70 season, he outscored Imhoff, 35-15 (while grabbing 24 rebounds.) So, a 33 year old Wilt, in his 11th season, was just as dominant against Imhoff, as a peak Kareem was.

But it gets even better.

In Wilt's 68-69 season, while we know that Van Breda Kolff put the shackles on Chamberlain, Wilt still had one game of 36 points, on 14-21 shooting, against Imhoff. That was in the midst of Wilt's "rebellion" when he went off on a 17 game scoring binge, in which he averaged 31.1 ppg (including games of 60, 66.)

Ok, now let's go back yet another season, to 67-68. IMHO, this was Wilt's last "prime" season.

In his seven H2H games with Imhoff, Chamberlain averaged 28.1 ppg, 26.9 rpg, 8.6 apg, and on a .638 FG%. Included were games of 31, 32, 35, and get this... a 53-32-14 game on 24-29 from the field.


Go back to Wilt's 66-67 season. I consider this Wilt's greatest all-around season. In his nine H2H's with Imhoff... 26.4 ppg, 24.0 rpg, 7.4 apg, and how about this... a .759 FG%! Of course, when Wilt wanted to, he just abused Imhoff and the Lakers that year. He had games of:
37-24-12 on 16-21 shooting; 39-28-6 on 16-23 shooting; 28-30-7 on 13-13 shooting; and a 32-30-9 game on 15-15 shooting.

Now, how about a prime "scoring" Wilt? I consider Chamberlain's 65-66 season as perhaps his greatest in terms of just pure domination over his peers. He just OVERWHELMED Bellamy, Thurmond, and Russell that season. And how did he do against Imhoff? In their 10 H2H's, Wilt outscored Imhoff, per game, by ... drum-roll please... a 40.8 to 3.0 ppg margin. Granted, not all of those points were poured in against Imhoff (Imhoff shared the center duties with 6-11 Leroy Ellis), but he certainly took his brunt of a "scoring" Chamberlain.

In those 10 H2H's in that 65-66 season, Chamberlain hung games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points. And in Imhoff's best game against Wilt, he was "only" outscored 39-8, but fouled out trying to defend him.

I won't bother going back any further. We know that a peak scoring Chamberlain averaged 54.5 ppg against Imhoff and his Knicks in the 61-62 season.

So, again, this was just ONE example of how much more dominant a peak-to-prime Wilt was against the same centers that a peak Kareem would face a few years later.

Furthermore, remember that a peak Kareem averaged a 36.2 ppg against Imhoff in the 69-70 playoffs? Why is that important? Because a peak Wilt never had the same opportunity. Instead of pouring in 40-50 ppg games against Imhoff and the Lakers in his post-seasons in the 60's, Wilt was instead battling Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, and Russell.

I don't think that there is a shred of doubt, that, had Chamberlain faced the Lakers even once in the playoffs in the 60's, that he would hold many of the post-season scoring records (and likely the FG% marks as well.)

[BigBoss]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362156

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Wilt has FOUR of the SIX highest FG% marks in 60+ point games, including the highest (.829.)

[-23-]

BTW, Wilt has FOUR of the SIX highest FG% marks in 60+ point games, including the highest (.829.)


And how many of these were in the playoffs? :lebronamazed: :kobe: :kobe: :kobe: :kobe:

[LAZERUSS]

Arguably the greatest consecutive games in NBA history, and they occurred in two consecutive nights, as well.

On 1/13/62, and against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy, Chamberlain put up a 73 point game, on 29-48 shooting (and 15-25 from the line), with 36 rebounds.

The very next night, on 1/14/62, Chamberlain went up against Russell, and poured in 62 points, on 27-45 shooting (and 8-10 from the line), with 28 rebounds.

Of course, how about a string of FOUR straight games with 60+ points (and nearly five...he had 58 points in the next game)...

67, 65, 61, and 100 points, on a combined .579 FG% ...and get this, an .802 FT% (73-91.)

He also added 97 rebounds in those four games (24.3 rpg.)

And again, in his fifth game of that streak, he scored 58 points on 24-41 shooting from the field, and 10-16 from the stripe, with 35 rebounds.

Overall, a five game streak of 351 points, or 70.2 ppg, on a .580 FG% and a .776 FT%, with 26.4 rpg. Oh, and the league eFG% was .426 that year.

[LAZERUSS]

And how many of these were in the playoffs? :lebronamazed: :kobe: :kobe: :kobe: :kobe:

Take away OT, and the same as MJ put up. In fact, Wilt's 56 point playoff game (in a MUST-WIN game BTW), topped Jordan's 54 point regulation game (in an eventual OT loss BTW.)

BTW, Chamberlain had FOUR 50+ point playoff games, THREE of which were in MUST WIN games, which is THREE more than any other GOAT candidate (and one of them was against RUSSELL.) All wins BTW.

As a side-note in Wilt's "scoring prime", he played in 52 playoff games, 30 of which were against Russell, and in those 52 games, he had 11 of 40+. A pretty damned impressive 21.2 %.