How can Detroit Pistons be this bad?

[iamgine]

3 Wins 18 Losses

How could a team with a very good coach, very good players, very good bench playing in the terrible East be so bad? They don't even have significant injury problems or anything like that. Even if their players are not complimentary, shouldn't they at least win more?

This situation is just mind boggling.

http://www.thenerdpocalypse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Jackie-Chan.jpg

[fiddy]

3 Wins 18 Losses

How could a team with a very good coach, very good players, very good bench playing in the terrible East be so bad? They don't even have significant injury problems or anything like that. Even if their players are not complimentary, shouldn't they at least win more?

This situation is just mind boggling.

http://www.thenerdpocalypse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Jackie-Chan.jpg
:oldlol: :oldlol: easily the lowest IQ team in the league

[FKAri]

Drummond is devoid of talent.

You me and the guy off the street would be better players given his physical tools.

[ImKobe]

Guys collectively lack basketball IQ. When your "team leaders" are Josh Smith, Brandon Jennings and Andre Drummond, you're going to be a bad team. No amount of coaching can fix the mess they have there.

Just look at their numbers on offense. They can play defense at a league average level, but they can't seem to execute properly on the other end.

I'm just baffled at their record because they are first in offensive rebounding and 5th in defensive rebounding (3rd overall). They need to let Jennings and Smith go ASAP. trade them for future picks.

[DukeDelonte13]

Guys collectively lack basketball IQ. When your "team leaders" are Josh Smith, Brandon Jennings and Andre Drummond, you're going to be a bad team. No amount of coaching can fix the mess they have there.

Just look at their numbers on offense. They can play defense at a league average level, but they can't seem to execute properly on the other end.

I'm just baffled at their record because they are first in offensive rebounding and 5th in defensive rebounding (3rd overall). They need to let Jennings and Smith go ASAP. trade them for future picks.


Might be easier said then done.

[Collie]

I want to see Josh play on a team with an established star. He does most things well EXCEPT score, so I think he'll thrive in a role that lets him be the 4th or 5th option (preferably a team with a strong personality that will keep him in line).

[swagga]

BAD SPACING

brandon jennings(hopeless chucker), josh smith(out of position, no J but forced to shoot), andre drummond (needs a stretch PF), caldwell pope (bad 3pt shooter), stuckey(slasher, no 3pt shot), villanoeva (strech PF but can't hit anything .250 3pt) etc

Teams just pack the paint against them because with this shooting there is no reason to defend further then the FT line. If you sort this roster by volume on long 2s and 3s it's a fcking disaster.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2014.html

Talented team but very badly constructed.... great for tanking tho :roll:

[AI Thornton]

I thought SVG would give them better spacing, but I was wrong.

[swagga]

I thought SVG would give them better spacing, but I was wrong.

with that roster jesus christ himself couldn't give you more spacing and what svg is trying with drummond demands alot of space. This might be a tank strategy... svg isn't dumb, he seems quite content with losing.

[Real14]

Idk, it makes me believe that the pistons and the knicks must be tanking:facepalm

[ballup]

No sort of a consistent offensive identity. They don't have many effective plays. Then comes guys like Jennings and Smith takin ill advised shots.

[hawksdreamfan44]

They've got three bigs, two of whom are limited offensively, and all three of whom can't shoot. This leads to terrible floor spacing, made worse by the fact that they don't have many knockdown shooters, and one of the ones they do have is injured (Meeks). Jennings is a shoot-first PG who doesn't get the ball to the bigs enough, rendering them even more ineffective. Also, Coach Van Gundy was used to having one big and surrounding him with shooter after shooter in Orlando. Now he's forced to adjust to prettimuch the exact opposite situation in Detroit.

[Myth]

Idk, it makes me believe that the pistons and the knicks must be tanking:facepalm

The sad part is the Knicks are actually trying.

[Real14]

The sad part is the Knicks are actually trying.
Sometimes they do and sometimes they really look like they're not trying.

[Magic731]

BAD SPACING

brandon jennings(hopeless chucker), josh smith(out of position, no J but forced to shoot), andre drummond (needs a stretch PF), caldwell pope (bad 3pt shooter), stuckey(slasher, no 3pt shot), villanoeva (strech PF but can't hit anything .250 3pt) etc

Teams just pack the paint against them because with this shooting there is no reason to defend further then the FT line. If you sort this roster by volume on long 2s and 3s it's a fcking disaster.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2014.html

Talented team but very badly constructed.... great for tanking tho :roll:
When's the last time you watched a Detroit game?

[Myth]

Sometimes they do and sometimes they really look like they're not trying.

I'm sure their motivation gets sucked from them at times due to their record, but I don't think it is a tank strategy either.

[Rake2204]

They've got three bigs, two of whom are limited offensively, and all three of whom can't shoot. This leads to terrible floor spacing, made worse by the fact that they don't have many knockdown shooters, and one of the ones they do have is injured (Meeks). Jennings is a shoot-first PG who doesn't get the ball to the bigs enough, rendering them even more ineffective. Also, Coach Van Gundy was used to having one big and surrounding him with shooter after shooter in Orlando. Now he's forced to adjust to prettimuch the exact opposite situation in Detroit.You're pretty much right on. With Jennings it's weird, he puts up alright assist totals but sometimes I wonder where they're coming from as I watch the games. He'll have a flashy dime here or there but otherwise it's kind of tough to tell when and how he's helping all his teammates become better (likely because he's not helping them get better).

[GOBB]

Sixer fan right here laughing at the Pistons situation

[Fudge]

BAD SPACING

brandon jennings(hopeless chucker), josh smith(out of position, no J but forced to shoot), andre drummond (needs a stretch PF), caldwell pope (bad 3pt shooter), stuckey(slasher, no 3pt shot), villanoeva (strech PF but can't hit anything .250 3pt) etc

Teams just pack the paint against them because with this shooting there is no reason to defend further then the FT line. If you sort this roster by volume on long 2s and 3s it's a fcking disaster.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2014.html

Talented team but very badly constructed.... great for tanking tho :roll:
Hey retardo, why don't you go and check who Stuckey and Villanueva play for? :facepalm

[Levity]

as goofy as it sounds, getting jodie meeks back will help, a lot.

[hawksdogsbraves]

as goofy as it sounds, getting jodie meeks back will help, a lot.

Help what, knock a few percentage points off their shot at the first pick?

[Rake2204]

as goofy as it sounds, getting jodie meeks back will help, a lot.When he returns, what happens to Kentavious Caldwell-Pope? Do they just split?

[SwishSquared]

They have bad players on not-so-favorable contracts. The roster is built very oddly and SVG overpaid guys since he panicked over the summer. Butler, Jennings, Smith, etc. don't hold much value when you consider their salaries.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them over the summer try to package some expiring deals (Augustin + Jennings + Gray + Mitchell) to acquire somebody with a hefty salary. I also wouldn't be surprised to see SVG either stretch or waive Jennings if he can't deal him.

At least they should have a high lotto pick and can get an impact player. I'd assume Monroe's leaving after being in a situation in which he felt diminished due to Smith's arrival. Josh Smith should probably come off the bench at this point since his athleticism has diminished below the level of his BBIQ now.

They could be patient, let guys expire, and stink this season and next in order to get some high quality young guys. I wouldn't be shocked if SVG throws Leonard a max this upcoming summer though.

[CelticBaller]

Horribly assembled team, something you see in a 2k 3 years into mycareer

[boozehound]

BAD SPACING

brandon jennings(hopeless chucker), josh smith(out of position, no J but forced to shoot), andre drummond (needs a stretch PF), caldwell pope (bad 3pt shooter), stuckey(slasher, no 3pt shot), villanoeva (strech PF but can't hit anything .250 3pt) etc

Teams just pack the paint against them because with this shooting there is no reason to defend further then the FT line. If you sort this roster by volume on long 2s and 3s it's a fcking disaster.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2014.html

Talented team but very badly constructed.... great for tanking tho :roll:
yeah, you've clearly watched them this year. stuckey and cv have been terrible for them......

[swagga]

yeah, you've clearly watched them this year. stuckey and cv have been terrible for them......

Hey retardo, why don't you go and check who Stuckey and Villanueva play for?

yeah sons I didn't watch them enough this year (2 games), to see that vital pieces like cancer pacient and 50cent went to other teams, they really left a huge hole in the pistons' roster :roll:

What I saw last year I'm seeing this year.I see drummond getting more possesions but that isn't helping at all, the rest is identical. So my argument stands. If you look at this year team and their metrics it's the same shit as last year, but people insist that the team plays different under van gundy. Same core roster same woes: horrible spacing, chucking, misused players, tanking.

[Rake2204]

yeah sons I didn't watch them enough this year (2 games), to see that vital pieces like cancer pacient and 50cent went to other teams, they really left a huge hole in the pistons' roster :roll:

What I saw last year I'm seeing this year.I see drummond getting more possesions but that isn't helping at all, the rest is identical. So my argument stands. If you look at this year team and their metrics it's the same shit as last year, but people insist that the team plays different under van gundy. Same core roster same woes: horrible spacing, chucking, misused players, tanking.Ideally, from the two games you watched where you thought Villanueva and Stuckey were still contributing, what do you believe Van Gundy could do to improve the situation there? How would one go about improving spacing with the roster they have? From watching all of their games, players have felt misused only because there's no better option.

Their current leading scorer is averaging 14 points per game, and it's not because they do a good job of spreading around the offense. It's because virtually no one has an effective ability to score and points just sort of happen.

We can mention movement and cuts, but who will deliver the ball in those situations? So far, it's been Brandon Jennings and Josh Smith making those decisions. Then, once cutting, who can finish at the basket?

Van Gundy has appeared to be working with the little that he has. If his players are awful at making layups (Josh Smith leads the team in field goal attempts and is hitting .381% of them) then it kind of creates a tough situation. If he opts to sit Smith, the lone frontcourt threat becomes Greg Monroe, who peaks at about 16-18 points in most games.

From watching all their games, they most certainly do not appear to be tanking. To attempt to make legitimate accusations in that regard by looking at metrics would appear to be relatively shortsighted.

[swagga]

Ideally, from the two games you watched where you thought Villanueva and Stuckey were still contributing, what do you believe Van Gundy could do to improve the situation there? How would one go about improving spacing with the roster they have? From watching all of their games, players have felt misused only because there's no better option.

Their current leading scorer is averaging 14 points per game, and it's not because they do a good job of spreading around the offense. It's because virtually no one has an effective ability to score and points just sort of happen.

We can mention movement and cuts, but who will deliver the ball in those situations? So far, it's been Brandon Jennings and Josh Smith making those decisions. Then, once cutting, who can finish at the basket?

Van Gundy has appeared to be working with the little that he has. If his players are awful at making layups (Josh Smith leads the team in field goal attempts and is hitting .381% of them) then it kind of creates a tough situation. If he opts to sit Smith, the lone frontcourt threat becomes Greg Monroe, who peaks at about 16-18 points in most games.

From watching all their games, they most certainly do not appear to be tanking. To attempt to make legitimate accusations in that regard by looking at metrics would appear to be relatively shortsighted.

you got me twisted here. I was saying the same thing, that with that roster no coach can make any difference (one of the first thread replies..). That's why I didn't bother to see villanoeva and stuckey go to other teams, because they weren't difference makers for a badly constructed team that is the same from last year.

I did imply that management might be content with the bad record even if the team is trying (team is trying imo)... so the management is tanking by putting together a talented but badly constructed team.

Obviously the first step for the pistons should be to get a proper PG that can dish and shoot. Jennings makes me want to vomit, a proper PG would go a long way in making things better. They should go HARD for dragic..

[Imtheman]

BAD SPACING[/size]

brandon jennings(hopeless chucker), josh smith(out of position, no J but forced to shoot), andre drummond (needs a stretch PF), caldwell pope (bad 3pt shooter), stuckey(slasher, no 3pt shot), villanoeva (strech PF but can't hit anything .250 3pt) etc

Teams just pack the paint against them because with this shooting there is no reason to defend further then the FT line. If you sort this roster by volume on long 2s and 3s it's a fcking disaster.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2014.html

Talented team but very badly constructed.... great for tanking tho :roll:

What an idiot:facepalm

[swagga]

What an idiot:facepalm

insightful take, so much has changed since last year...

[Embers]

The way I see it

Josh Smith is nearly untradeable. The Knicks are the only option and they want the free room too much to actually want him.

Brandon Jennings is still tradeable to a team looking for a 6th man. A role I think he can do well.

Greg Monroe has to be traded. Zero chance of staying on beyond this year. Can net them some assets for a team challenging.

So for trades id go with

Brandon Jennings to Sacramento for Carl Landry and Ramon Sessions. Sacramento need a 6th man scoring option to replace Isiah Thomas. Think the contracts all match up. Landry can do well in Detroit playing as that 6th man option

Monroe + DJ Augustin to Toronto for Vasquez and Chuck Hayes. Take over a dud contract and get a player you desperately need to boot. Give up a dud contract (DJ) and give away a player that I think Toronto desperately need (some rebounding off the bench). Both trades are fairly win win. id then play Detroit with

Vasquez
Pope
Singler
Smith
Drummond

Sessions, Landry, Butler, Meeks, Martin as the bench rotation.

[Rake2204]

you got me twisted here. I was saying the same thing, that with that roster no coach can make any difference (one of the first thread replies..). That's why I didn't bother to see villanoeva and stuckey go to other teams, because they weren't difference makers for a badly constructed team that is the same from last year.

I did imply that management might be content with the bad record even if the team is trying (team is trying imo)... so the management is tanking by putting together a talented but badly constructed team.

Obviously the first step for the pistons should be to get a proper PG that can dish and shoot. Jennings makes me want to vomit, a proper PG would go a long way in making things better. They should go HARD for dragic..My apologies for the misunderstanding. I'm with you on Jennings. They actually operated pretty well with Augustin on the floor earlier this season but he's struggled of late. They were splitting time pretty evenly, then Jennings got hot and took sole possession of the one spot.

I'm still not convinced the front office is tanking. Instead, I think they're likely just struggling mightily to find a deal that'd work for them. It seems likely that Smith and Jennings would be preferably removed by this club, but they're weary of their likely awful trade value. Even as highly motivated sellers, is there a right move for these guys at this point?

[Big Cheese]

29th in offensive efficiency
30th in TS%
30th in EFF FG%
29th in FT%
30th in FG%

[MellowYellow]

I'm sure their motivation gets sucked from them at times due to their record, but I don't think it is a tank strategy either.

It's tanking, D-fish isn't hiding anything he always calls the wrong plays and has the wrong players on the court at the wrong time.