Will Kobes record of scapegoated teammates ever be broken??

[Akrazotile]

As of now nobody is even in the rearview.

Will there ever be a fanbase that goes so far out of its way to blame every other person except the star fir the team's failings?

Knicks fans have made solid ground in a short amount of time with Melo. But Melo was getting booed at the Garden himself in the first couple years so its really not that comparable to Bean.

What do you guys think? Looking forward to some good honest conversation :cheers:

[J Shuttlesworth]

It's good to see Gasol thrive under a non-scapegoating system

[ArbitraryWater]

It's good to see Gasol thrive under a non-scapegoating system

I think the non-scapegoating system has done wonders for him, nicely accompanied his game and rejuvenated his career.

[ImKobe]

What's the point of this thread anyways?

That the Lakers struggles this season is solely on Kobe's play?

Here's my problem with people that discuss Kobe. He either gets overly praised like he's jesus or something OR he gets hated like he's sabotaging games and it's all on him. No one is willing to meet in the middle and agree that he is a part of the problem, but he's not the only guy to be blamed.

I guess some of you think I'm just some physcho that's overly defensive about one player, but that's not the case at all. Kobe's play has been a problem to me this season, but the team overall just sucks. If you can't play defense, you're not going to win, especially with the talent/depth(or lack thereof) the Lakers currently have.

Kobe's play has been nothing to brag about, except for a few games, but it's not like anyone else on the team has been spectacular. Guys only show up every now and then and rarely do you see the whole team clicking or looking like an actual team. The offense is terrible. The ball movement sucks. Guys suck at protecting the ball. Transition defense? These guys clearly have no idea what that is. Hustle? :kobe:

This team was destined to fail from the start and it was going to be a tanking year with the amount of guys on one-year contracts and the best player coming off two serious injuries. Randle going down in the first game was another tragedy.

Kobe's been average overall, not terrible, but not great either. Doesn't matter either way as this season is meaningless in the long run.

[ImKobe]

It's good to see Gasol thrive under a non-scapegoating system

But despite his numbers, the team overall hasn't improved as much. They're only on pace to win one more game than last season and they have gone from the best defense in the league to being a middle of the pack defensive team.

And non-scapegoating system? How many games did he play with Kobe last season? Kobe was not the problem for his production. He had the best years of his career playing with him.

[KobesFinger]

^Why is this guy in the red?

And Gasol was the only player who was actually scapegoated, unless you want to count the 05-07 Lakers. The Gasol scapegoating only started after the 2011 playoffs where he played like ass. During the repeat he was given due praise. You may have missed that seeing as you probably weren't watching basketball then.

[riseagainst]

But despite his numbers, the team overall hasn't improved as much. They're only on pace to win one more game than last season and they have gone from the best defense in the league to being a middle of the pack defensive team.

And non-scapegoating system? How many games did he play with Kobe last season? Kobe was not the problem for his production. He had the best years of his career playing with him.

why is this guy in the red?
lebron stans are not happy about him spitting truth and logic into a thread.
:oldlol:

[ImKobe]

why is this guy in the red?
lebron stans are not happy about him spitting truth and logic into a thread.
:oldlol:

I was a victim of a couple neg trains by some Bran stans with 3-4 alts. :oldlol:. Like I care about rep on ISH.

[Artillery]

Kobe's Lakers are on pace to finish with 19 wins this season.

MVPau led the Lakers to 27 wins last season with an inferior roster.

Always knew Pau was more impactful than Kirby. Dude looks rejuvenated now that he no longer has to carry the load for the chucker anymore.

[STATUTORY]

Kobe doesn't scapegoat his teammates, he empower them to achieve with him what they could never do otherwise

made guys like Smush Parker and Chris Mihm and Brian cook and Luke Walton regular rotation players and millionaires, and punks like Gasol champions

it's unlike Lebron ball reducing his star teammates into cutters and spot up shooters

4 years a slave: Wade and Bosh's story

[ImKobe]

Kobe's Lakers are on pace to finish with 19 wins this season.

MVPau led the Lakers to 27 wins last season with an inferior roster.

Kobe - the least impactful superstar in NBA history

Last year's team was much more talented than the current one. Meeks, Marshall, Farmar, Bazemore had good seasons under D'Antoni. Blake was balling when he was healthy.

If you give Kobe last year's roster with everyone healthy, they are probably in Playoff contention.

D'Antoni was a much better coach than Scott and we had weapons on offense. A lot of guys shot well for us from deep.

[J Shuttlesworth]

why is this guy in the red?
lebron stans are not happy about him spitting truth and logic into a thread.
:oldlol:
lol you realize this is the same guy who made a thread saying he's giving up on kobe, right?

[ImKobe]

lol you realize this is the same guy who made a thread saying he's giving up on kobe, right?

I said I was done defending Kobe's play this season.

And I got 0 negs for that thread, so foh fakkit.

[J Shuttlesworth]

But despite his numbers, the team overall hasn't improved as much. They're only on pace to win one more game than last season and they have gone from the best defense in the league to being a middle of the pack defensive team.

And non-scapegoating system? How many games did he play with Kobe last season? Kobe was not the problem for his production. He had the best years of his career playing with him.
Pau's rebounding stats and FG% have gone up signifcantly this year vs 2012-13 where he was forced to play Kobe-ball

[J Shuttlesworth]

I said I was done defending Kobe's play this season.

And I got 0 negs for that thread, so foh fakkit.
do you have a link to that thread? I want to bookmark it so I can bump it in the future

[Lebronxrings]

Durant and melo are up there, dunno if anyone can surpass kobes amount of excuses.

[STATUTORY]

Durant and melo are up there, dunno if anyone can surpass kobes amount of excuses.
what excuses does lebrun have for 2/5 and dat abomination he calls a hairline?

[Artillery]

Also, this topic is neglecting all the scapegoat coaches. Mike Brown, D'Antoni, Byron Scott,etc. Two of those guys made the Finals with other teams, the other had numerous 60 win teams and Western Conference Finals appearances. All failed spectacularly when they had to coach Kobe. Pretty much impossible to build a contender with Bryant unless you have the GOAT coach, the right system(Kobe is only effective in the triangle - he's a system player after all) and a stacked roster with dominant big men.

[J Shuttlesworth]

what excuses does lebrun have for 2/5 and dat abomination he calls a hairline?
2 rings at 29 = same pace as Jordan :bowdown:

[Artillery]

If you give Kobe last year's roster with everyone healthy, they are probably in Playoff contention.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/02/mj-laughing.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

Last year's team was much more talented than the current one. Meeks, Marshall, Farmar, Bazemore had good seasons under D'Antoni. Blake was balling when he was healthy.

If you give Kobe last year's roster with everyone healthy, they are probably in Playoff contention.

D'Antoni was a much better coach than Scott and we had weapons on offense. A lot of guys shot well for us from deep.

This is why he's red.

[ImKobe]

Also, this topic is neglecting all the scapegoat coaches. Mike Brown, D'Antoni, Byron Scott,etc. Two of those guys made the Finals with other teams, the other had numerous 60 win teams and Western Conference Finals appearances. All failed spectacularly when they had to coach Kobe. Pretty much impossible to build a contender with Bryant unless you have the GOAT coach, the right system(Kobe is only effective in the triangle - he's a system player after all) and a stacked roster with dominant big men.

Mike Brown without Lebron and Kobe = garbage (Cleveland had to let him go after one season into his 3-year contract :oldlol:)

D'Antoni - Him and Kobe had a good relationship and understood each other well. Kobe had one of his best offensive seasons under him and they had an amazing run the 2nd half of the season.

Byron Scott - I don't see any problems here. The team itself sucks ass anyways, Scott isn't known for being a great coach (career 50% win record)

Mike Brown was unfairly fired so early into the season, but that's on the FO for panicking so quick.

And the shit you just spewed out could also be said about MJ, who had zero success without Phil. Missed Playoffs two consecutive years in a weak Eastern Conference while chucking a lot of shots and being inefficient.. But I don't see anyone mocking him for the Wizards years, that aren't any different from the situation Kobe's in right now.

[ImKobe]

This is why he's red.

Oh really? :biggums:

The team won 10 out of their first 20 games to start the season..9th team in the West (Kings) currently have a 10-10 record. You put a healthy Kobe on that roster and chances are they are at least as good, if not better. The success came from being able to play defense, as they consistently held opponents under 100 pts. We had the best bench in the league during that time IIRC.

[KobesFinger]

Pau's rebounding stats and FG% have gone up signifcantly this year vs 2012-13 where he was forced to play Kobe-ball

2012-13 was D'Antoni ball. 08-11 was Kobe ball, it resulted in 3 trips to the Finals and 2 rings, as well as Pau averaging a career high in FG%

[J Shuttlesworth]

Honestly though, I like ImKobe. One of the few tolerable kobe stans here

[J Shuttlesworth]

2012-13 was D'Antoni ball. 08-11 was Kobe ball, it resulted in 3 trips to the Finals and 2 rings, as well as Pau averaging a career high in FG%
Dantoni had no say. It was Kobe ball

[ArbitraryWater]

Oh really? :biggums:

The team won 10 out of their first 20 games to start the season..9th team in the West (Kings) currently have a 10-10 record. You put a healthy Kobe on that roster and chances are they are at least as good, if not better. The success came from being able to play defense, as they consistently held opponents under 100 pts. We had the best bench in the league during that time IIRC.

Don't you feel retarded with the choice/selection of your sample sizes?

Lakers were 25-39 without Kobe, and 2-6 with Kobe. Shut it.


2012-13 was D'Antoni ball. 08-11 was Kobe ball, it resulted in 3 trips to the Finals and 2 rings, as well as Pau averaging a career high in FG%

lmao..... Phil ****ing Jackson, please.

[ImKobe]

2012-13 was D'Antoni ball. 08-11 was Kobe ball, it resulted in 3 trips to the Finals and 2 rings, as well as Pau averaging a career high in FG%

Pau struggled from 2012-14 due to injuries and not being a great fit in the D'Antoni system. The pace was probably a bit too high for his liking, and he wasn't used to shooting that many long-range jumpers.

His efficiency and production has gone up in Chicago because the roster around him is so good. He joined a 48-win team that was also missing Derrick Rose. Now imagine that Rose can get his health up and be more productive as well. Gasol is in a perfect situation right now, and it has nothing to do with Kobe.

[riseagainst]

Dantoni had no say. It was Kobe ball

it was more like:
08-11: phil jackson ball
12-now: Kobe ball

[KyleKong]

I was a victim of a couple neg trains by some Bran stans with 3-4 alts. :oldlol:. Like I care about rep on ISH.

No, it's because the shit you say is dumb and borderline retarded.

[J Shuttlesworth]

it was more like:
08-11: phil jackson ball
12-now: Kobe ball
future rep for accuracy

[ImKobe]

Don't you feel retarded with the choice/selection of your sample sizes?

Lakers were 25-39 without Kobe, and 2-6 with Kobe. Shut it.



lmao..... Phil ****ing Jackson, please.

That wasn't the first 20 games into the season. I am basing it off the play of the team at the same time a year ago.

And wow, what a huge sample size there bro. Basing your whole argument on Kobe coming back 8 months after an achilles tear, like his first 6 games a year ago are comparable to his play this season..

Like I said, a healthy Kobe on last year's roster 20 games into the season would have been in Playoff contention. Farmar, Young, Meeks, Blake had a nice start to the season. Nash even played a few games.

And Phil ****ing Jackson? Where was Phil ****ing Jackson in 2011-12? Or right now?

You seriously have an issue with your Kobe hate. It's getting to the point where you're ignoring all logic and reason and are just making up bullshit to support your stupid agenda. By your logic, Kobe's never done anything positive and there's no way he ever impacted a player in a positive way. It's ridiculous. Please stop with this bullshit and learn how to reason with other people. I am surprised how you're in the green with the amount shitposting in recent months.

Gasol will never have as much success as he had playing with Kobe and his stats will never be as great as they were with Kobe. Kobe's an all-time great that makes his teammates better, especially big men. Stop making up nonsense.

[ImKobe]

No, it's because the shit you say is dumb and borderline retarded.

Resorting to name-calling when you have nothing intelligent to say in the discussion. Typical.

"the shit you say is dumb and borderline retarded."

Is that the best you can do? :oldlol:, kids at kindergarten have better insults than that. Try harder next time.

[ArbitraryWater]

You're writing paragraphs in response to their horrible team record :oldlol:

for emphasis, here


No, it's because the shit you say is dumb and borderline retarded.

[KobesFinger]

Don't you feel retarded with the choice/selection of your sample sizes?

Lakers were 25-39 without Kobe, and 2-6 with Kobe. Shut it.



lmao..... Phil ****ing Jackson, please.

I'm not trying to discredit, downplay or deny PJax' coaching skills and triangle offence at all. But by your logic, I guess the Bulls won playing Jackson ball, not Jordan ball right? Or Jackson ball over Shaq ball?

[ImKobe]

You're writing paragraphs in response to their horrible team record :oldlol:

for emphasis, here

It takes little effort for me to write a wall of text in response :confusedshrug:, I actually use logic and back my statements up with facts. I don't know what the hell more could I do to make it as clear as possible to a neanderthal such as yourself.

You literally have nothing to counter my post, so you are just going to quote someone's childish insult? :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

It takes little effort for me to write a wall of text in response :confusedshrug:, I actually use logic and back my statements up with facts. I don't know what the hell more could I do to make it as clear as possible to a neanderthal such as yourself.

You literally have nothing to counter my post, so you are just going to quote someone's childish insult? :oldlol:

Reason has been tried with you.. you're a lost cause, another troll deep in the red that's not taken seriuosly anymore.

[ImKobe]

Reason has been tried with you.. you're a lost cause, another troll deep in the red that's not taken seriuosly anymore.

Where's the reasoning behind your claims?

Oh, someone played well alongside Kobe? Must be Phil Jackson ball

Wow, so much reasoning :lebronamazed:

I'd love to see you try to make an argument once. All you do is throw insults at me and claim things without backing them up with any kind of evidence :confusedshrug:, so me calling you out for it means that I'm a troll?

Please.

[ArbitraryWater]

Okay, ugh.... fact I'm even adressing this.

KobesFinger: Calls 08-10 Kobe ball, 12-13 D'Antoni ball...........

Makes no sense.

Either adress it by coaches only, or by players only.

Just looks like another way to give credit to only Kobe but take attention away from him when it wasn't going well.

[gts]

This is why he's red.


Not everybody has 3 or 4 alts to keep themselves green like you do..

The only reason you're green is because you rep yourself.. I cannot imagine for the life of me anyone actually thinking you've ever made one post worth repping....

43 posts per day (on this account) of pure and utter steaming crap

[ImKobe]

Okay, ugh.... fact I'm even adressing this.

KobesFinger: Calls 08-10 Kobe ball, 12-13 D'Antoni ball...........

Makes no sense.

Either adress it by coaches only, or by players only.

Just looks like another way to give credit to only Kobe but take attention away from him when it wasn't going well.

I wouldn't call 2008-2010 Kobe Ball because the triangle is much more than Kobe just ISOing all game... Kobe Ball was in 2011-12 under Mike Brown, where the offense was ISO-heavy, 2014-15 is the same way, but the team is far less talented.

2012-13 was D'Antoni Ball, but Pau's struggles came from his leg injuries and missing a lot of time, playing hurt, etc.

Problem that season was the health of the Players

Pau - played 49 out of 82 games
Nash - played 50 games
Blake - missed nearly half the season
Hill - missed 53 games
Howard - couldn't perform basketball-related activities for half a year after back surgery, by all reports came back too early and played hurt

Team wasn't deep to begin with, and our key guys either played hurt or were injured a lot. Since the starting line-up was constantly changing and guys were in and out of rotations due to all the injuries, team had poor chemistry and there was no bench to speak of. Howard and Kobe basically had to shoulder all of the load, and it wasn't enough to be elite in a stacked Western Conference.

They still won 28 out of 40 games when they made Kobe play point for half the season, and he led a team that was 15-21 at one point back into the Playoff picture. that's a 53-win pace for the rest of the season for a team that had no bench and missed key players during the whole damn thing.


But yet YOU still come out and spew bullshit about how Kobe failed to make the Playoffs with an all-time great team, making it sound like he played with 4 HOFers in their primes and his garbage play led them down, when he had one of his best seasons in the league.

Yeah I went off track again with my paragraphs, but try to refute this post.

[ImKobe]

Not everybody has 3 or 4 alts to keep themselves green like you do..

The only reason you're green is because you rep yourself.. I cannot imagine for the life of me anyone actually thinking you've ever made one post worth repping....

43 posts per day (on this account) of pure and utter steaming crap

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/mynicca1.pnghttp://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/aqDwC.png

[ArbitraryWater]

Not everybody has 3 or 4 alts to keep themselves green like you do..

The only reason you're green is because you rep yourself.. I cannot imagine for the life of me anyone actually thinking you've ever made one post worth repping....

43 posts per day (on this account) of pure and utter steaming crap

You actually believe this?

You do know in order to keep myself green, my other accounts would need to have a strong rep power aswell, meaning large volume of posts AND full green bars?

What do you think I am, the whole BTE?

This is another desperate attempt :oldlol:

It's like hating a poster's view points so bad, you just say "Yea he's this guy, and that guy, and that guy too!! They're all one guy and the rest are his alts !!"

okay bub

[ImKobe]

You actually believe this?

You do know in order to keep myself green, my other accounts would need to have a strong rep power aswell, meaning large volume of posts AND full green bars?

What do you think I am, the whole BTE?

This is another desperate attempt :oldlol:

It's like hating a poster's view points so bad, you just say "Yea he's this guy, and that guy, and that guy too!! They're all one guy and the rest are his alts !!"

okay bub

You have 14k posts in less than a year, it isn't too outlandish to think you'd have older alternate accounts that you use to rep yourself, + some fellow kobe-hating buddies that rep you for your low-quality troll posts.

[Proctor]

Not everybody has 3 or 4 alts to keep themselves green like you do..

The only reason you're green is because you rep yourself.. I cannot imagine for the life of me anyone actually thinking you've ever made one post worth repping....

43 posts per day (on this account) of pure and utter steaming crap
:applause: :applause:

[pastis]

arbitrarywater, artillery and jshu are right.

nevertheless, imkobe is the best of the kobe stans (with mr. jabbar). they can actually recognize when kobe plays bad (at least sometimes they recognize)


it isnt a secret that kobe won his titles wiht goat coach and stacked teams. but that is ok. in the wild west you just need, for being relevant over a long stretch like the lakers with phil and the spurs with pop, a goat coach and a stacked team. otherwise you get kicked out at semi-finals at latest.

but what i dont undersand is the kobe stan logic:

if lakers win = kobe saved their asses
if lakers lose = everyone but kobe was bad

if lebron-team win = everyone but lebrn was good
if lebron-team lose = lebron was crap

[jstern]

It's the thing that I find most annoying about the obsessive Kobe stans, they go off and anyone they could use as a scapegoat if Kobe let say has an 9 for 29 game.

Not only that, but they go off on players of other teams, if they so happen to get any attention. I noticed that big time during Linsanity, such big and funny moment in the NBA, where a lot of people where getting into the fact Lin kept putting big numbers. Will he do it again on tonight's game? Except for the Kobe stans, they felt so freaking threatened.

[gts]

You actually believe this?

You do know in order to keep myself green, my other accounts would need to have a strong rep power aswell, meaning large volume of posts AND full green bars?

What do you think I am, the whole BTE?

This is another desperate attempt :oldlol:

It's like hating a poster's view points so bad, you just say "Yea he's this guy, and that guy, and that guy too!! They're all one guy and the rest are his alts !!"

okay bub


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339504

[ArbitraryWater]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339504

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10080634&postcount=10

I'm not the only one to do it.. http://i.gyazo.com/ff76db9e3985d3018003862350f1900a.png

It's just a joke.

Who do you think I would be, detective?

[tamaraw08]

It's good to see Gasol thrive under a non-scapegoating system

Shawne Williams looked good in Miami too.
Steve Blake, Kaman, Sessions look ok too for their respective teams.

[Magic 32]

MVPau led the Lakers to 27 wins last season with an inferior roster.



After a 9-8 start, the Lakers went 11-29 with Gasol in the lineup.

MVPau indeed.

[NBASTATMAN]

Last year's team was much more talented than the current one. Meeks, Marshall, Farmar, Bazemore had good seasons under D'Antoni. Blake was balling when he was healthy.

If you give Kobe last year's roster with everyone healthy, they are probably in Playoff contention.

D'Antoni was a much better coach than Scott and we had weapons on offense. A lot of guys shot well for us from deep.



THIS IS SUCH BULLSHIT... Last year KobeSTANS like you were saying the team talent sucked.. That team won 27 games with the biggest amount of injuries I have ever seen on one team.. Dantoni being the better coach is just a new excuse.. Though it may be true.. Anything not to blame Kobe..

If he just changed his game they would be much better than they currently are.. His defense is the real reason they sucked and have sucked in the past two seasons he has played.. His offense is still at a high level though his shooting has gone down..

SCAPEGOATING CONTINUES :rockon:

[NBASTATMAN]

-
After a 9-8 start, the Lakers went 11-29 with Gasol in the lineup.

MVPau indeed.


Wasn't Pau part of that 9-8 start.. Afterward the team had a tremendous amount of injuries.. :rockon:

[coin24]

Will OPs record of alt accounts and zero women slept with ever be broken?:lol

[secund2nun]

Kobe's Lakers are on pace to finish with 19 wins this season.

MVPau led the Lakers to 27 wins last season with an inferior roster.

Always knew Pau was more impactful than Kirby. Dude looks rejuvenated now that he no longer has to carry the load for the chucker anymore.

Gasol is simply a superior player than overrated Kobe.

[ImKobe]

THIS IS SUCH BULLSHIT... Last year KobeSTANS like you were saying the team talent sucked.. That team won 27 games with the biggest amount of injuries I have ever seen on one team.. Dantoni being the better coach is just a new excuse.. Though it may be true.. Anything not to blame Kobe..

If he just changed his game they would be much better than they currently are.. His defense is the real reason they sucked and have sucked in the past two seasons he has played.. His offense is still at a high level though his shooting has gone down..

SCAPEGOATING CONTINUES :rockon:

The team won 10 out of their first 20 games with everyone healthy :biggums:

They didn't start tanking until Kobe came back and went down with a serious knee injury...

So it wouldn't be out of this world to say that if Kobe had last year's roster with everyone healthy, they would be in Playoff contention after the first 20 games of the season when their record in the first 20 games last season would be good for a 9th spot in the West right now :rolleyes:

That's ALL I'm saying, I didn't claim that they would be a Playoff team or a top team, just that they would be in contention for a Playoff spot.

What's so hard to understand? Guys were shooting lights out early in the season and held opponents to below 100 points in most games, beat the Clippers in the season opener, beat Houston on the road.

I guess y'all have amnesia or some shit because the Lakers were considered to fight for the 8th spot a year ago when they had a decent enough record and Kobe was returning from injury..

[L.A. Jazz]

It's good to see Gasol thrive under a non-scapegoating system
Agree 100%.
The hate/negativity Pau got his last years in LA was ridiculous. he helped the Lakers to 3 finals and 2 rings. Kobe never said a bad word about Pau, he loves him but the fans search for a scapegoat is often the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. another example: Chris Bosh, who tried to do everything to make the Heat team without quality bigs (except him) work and still was the first one to get blamed by the Heat fans.

[HOoopCityJones]

Not everybody has 3 or 4 alts to keep themselves green like you do..

The only reason you're green is because you rep yourself.. I cannot imagine for the life of me anyone actually thinking you've ever made one post worth repping....

43 posts per day (on this account) of pure and utter steaming crap

:roll:

:applause: