Dunking at the End of a Decided Game - Why is it Now Treated as the Ultimate Sin?

[Rake2204]

When did we completely make the crossover from playing until the final buzzer regardless of who's winning and who's losing, to getting incredibly and uncomfortably offended if a player has the audacity to complete a routine dunk to push a late lead to eight?

As a player, even at the end of getting blown out, if a team dunked on us - it was probably our fault. It sucked, but that was basketball. The only thing that'd really get us would have been if the player dunking mocked us or tried to shamelessly rub it in our faces.

But now, even if a player has the most innocent intent of just playing basketball until the final buzzer (and heaven forbid giving the crowd something more to cheer about), the response is almost worse than if he were to have flagrantly fouled someone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKC9YGtBHd4

I'm living in the past I suppose, back when even the most upstanding NBA citizen could play until the final horn in a win and not have anyone bat an eyelash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxWJBI8cmqY#t=4m57s

[Akrazotile]

Very much agreed.

[iamgine]

It's just the unwritten rules nowadays. It's considered disrespectful.

Just like how *** meant cigars back then but now it's a disrespectful word.

You may/may not like it but it is what it is.

[MP.Trey]

I was always taught that it's disrespectful to run up the score on an opponent when a win is already secured, whether it's a dunk/layup or a jump shot. It's just respect. No need to rub salt on a wound. :confusedshrug:

[Rake2204]

I was always taught that it's disrespectful to run up the score on an opponent when a win is already secured, whether it's a dunk/layup or a jump shot. It's just respect. No need to rub salt on a wound. :confusedshrug:I think the question would be, why is scoring while the game is still going on considered disrespectful? On the amateur level, when a powerhouse happens upon a vastly overmatched small time opponent, I believe the true idea of running up a score can come into play and I would agree it would be wise in certain situations to be mindful of how badly a team runs up another.

For instance, I've coached middle school B teams who were unlucky enough to run into opponents whose own B team was vastly superior to our A club. In those cases, when the opponent's up 38-4 in the fourth quarter and still trapping at half court, that's where I'm questioning sportsmanship on account of running up the score.

However, in the NBA, where it's a flat mix of 300 of the best players in the world, gathered on a stage largely for the sake of entertainment - I feel the idea of disrespect and/or running up the score shouldn't be as easily attained as in a middle school B team setting.

What is so inherently humiliating or embarrassing about giving up a dunk at the end of a game? As a fan, I love end-of-game dunks, because it's often an opportunity for players to bust out something special for the fans. So a team that was going to lose by 8, loses by 10 instead - because a player gives the fans what they want. And?

Again, even in rec leagues where people tend to be a little more emotionally immature, I haven't really encountered an issue with late-game dunking. If someone's killing us and they wrap it up with a breakaway double-pump - it sucks, but unless that player runs by our bench laughing in our faces while saying something like "Lick deez nutz!", there's not going to be a problem - because it's basketball.

[chocolatethunder]

I loved when Mo Cheeks dunked a the end of the finals vs the Lakers when the Sixers won.

[iamgine]

I think the question would be, why is scoring while the game is still going on considered disrespectful? On the amateur level, when a powerhouse happens upon a vastly overmatched small time opponent, I believe the true idea of running up a score can come into play and I would agree it would be wise in certain situations to be mindful of how badly a team runs up another.

For instance, I've coached middle school B teams who were unlucky enough to run into opponents whose own B team was vastly superior to our A club. In those cases, when the opponent's up 38-4 in the fourth quarter and still trapping at half court, that's where I'm questioning sportsmanship on account of running up the score.

However, in the NBA, where it's a flat mix of 300 of the best players in the world, gathered on a stage largely for the sake of entertainment - I feel the idea of disrespect and/or running up the score shouldn't be as easily attained as in a middle school B team setting.

What is so inherently humiliating or embarrassing about giving up a dunk at the end of a game? As a fan, I love end-of-game dunks, because it's often an opportunity for players to bust out something special for the fans. So a team that was going to lose by 8, loses by 10 instead - because a player gives the fans what they want. And?

Again, even in rec leagues where people tend to be a little more emotionally immature, I haven't really encountered an issue with late-game dunking. If someone's killing us and they wrap it up with a breakaway double-pump - it sucks, but unless that player runs by our bench laughing in our faces while saying something like "Lick deez nutz!", there's not going to be a problem - because it's basketball.
Eh, it's just the accepted sign of respect these days. If you ask why, then why do running to the bench and saying "Lick deez nutz" disrespectful? It's fun for the fans and winner should be able to make fun of the losers. It's just trash talk after all.

[Andrew Wiggins]

I was always taught that it's disrespectful to run up the score on an opponent when a win is already secured, whether it's a dunk/layup or a jump shot. It's just respect. No need to rub salt on a wound. :confusedshrug:

cultural differences i guess

here in spain, it's generally considered more patronizing than a sign of respect. it's considered more respectful when an opponent plays as hard as he can regardless of the score and level of opponent

[Rake2204]

Eh, it's just the accepted sign of respect these days. If you ask why, then why do running to the bench and saying "Lick deez nutz" disrespectful? It's fun for the fans and winner should be able to make fun of the losers. It's just trash talk after all.I think there's a very, very thick line between continuing to play basketball until the basketball game has concluded, and intentionally attempting to disrespect and embarrass an opponent with potentially offensive comments and trash talk.

In fact, that's kind of the point. It's very possible (and usually likely) that an end-of-game dunk is more about playing basketball than it is about attempting to show-up the other team. The Lillard dunk was a fine example - he appeared to have zero intent of trying to embarrass the Bulls - he was just dunking to wrap up the game. So why would Chicago attempt to find a way to convince themselves it was disrespectful?


here in spain, it's generally considered more patronizing than a sign of respect. it's considered more respectful when an opponent plays as hard as he can regardless of the score and level of opponentI feel the same way in many cases. I mean, I suppose I don't mind if a team dribbles out the clock - but theoretically yeah, it'd kind of be more embarrassing to have a team have to force itself to stop playing.

[Mass Debator]

It's the end of the game. What does more points gonna do for you?

It's kind of like a losing defender trying steal the ball from a ball handler who already held it for the last 3 seconds up 5.

It's like kicking a field goal with 3 seconds left already up 10. It's like a game-sealing interception trying to take it all the way with a clear path. It's like faking a knee and throwing it.

It's like knocking someone out in a street fight and still kicking them in the face while they're down. It's like a fast as hell runner winning and still trying to catch up with the last man that hasn't finished yet. lol

[oarabbus]

Don't forget about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR4kVv08YM

Turner looks real apologetic about it. Look at Swaggy P so pissed he won't even accept the apology :lol

So, is there a difference between throwing down the slam for the 2 points in a decided game, vs waiting for the buzzer? If Turner had waited an extra 1.5s, would his dunk have been acceptable? Or still disrespectful?

[Mass Debator]

Don't forget about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR4kVv08YM

Turner looks real apologetic about it. Look at Swaggy P so pissed he won't even accept the apology :lol

So, is there a difference between throwing down the slam for the 2 points in a decided game, vs waiting for the buzzer? If Turner had waited an extra 1.5s, would his dunk have been acceptable? Or still disrespectful?
That one was okay because Turner turned out looking like a bitch......:roll:
Seriously, it would've been disrespectful before or after the clock. Unless you're prime Vince Carter at home, it's just unacceptable.

[Natureland]

OP, this popped into my head from a '94 Rockets/Suns Playoffs game I watched a while ago. Do you just file this under Ainge being his usual self?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN1gfT2IUuo#t=55s

[Rake2204]

OP, this popped into my head from a '94 Rockets/Suns Playoffs game I watched a while ago. Do you just file this under Ainge being his usual self?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN1gfT2IUuo#t=55sHaha, that's one of my favorite clips. That's a perfect example of when one may not want to complete an end-of-game dunk, for not all end-of-gamers were created equal. In Ainge's case, tensions were incredibly high with he and Elie having a contentious run-in earlier in the game (as can be seen in that video). It's around that point where a dunk like that could realistically be received as being an attempt at disrespect (with Elie jawing immediately after).

My issue is with the dunks that are just dunks. Each team played hard, it's been a respectful game, and an NBA athlete happens to break out into the open floor with the clock ticking down (like Even Turner's posted above yours) and just dunks to dunk - because he's a super athlete in the NBA and people like to see players go out on a limb and try something new when the game's not hanging in limbo.

Even if the Lakers were sensitive enough to take a meaningless (albeit entertaining) jam as an intentional personal affront, Turner really clearly seems to have shown no intent of such.

I think it should be nothing more than something fans may possibly enjoy moving forth. That Turner jam was pretty wicked - I didn't know he had it in him at the time. I didn't feel embarrassed for L.A. and I don't feel they should have taken it that way.

It's all silly to me, and backward. Someone could Kenyon Martin slam on top of defender, rip their jersey to the side and taunt the entire opposing bench and it's largely met with an "Aw he get me". But if a random guy happens to make a random dunk that means nothing...

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/tumblr_mp9ifb6Xsz1ssahoko1_500.gif

[Done_And_Done]

I personally don't like it. Perhaps I just share an old school mentality, but in my estimation I don't see the need to pound more salt on the wound when the game is already wrapped up. It's just sorta rubs me as a little classless and unsportsmanlike is all.

[Done_And_Done]

Btw - that Ainge clip is effn hilarious :lol

[sammichoffate]

Don't forget about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR4kVv08YM

Turner looks real apologetic about it. Look at Swaggy P so pissed he won't even accept the apology :lol

So, is there a difference between throwing down the slam for the 2 points in a decided game, vs waiting for the buzzer? If Turner had waited an extra 1.5s, would his dunk have been acceptable? Or still disrespectful?NO SPORTSMANSHIP FOR THE HALL OF FAME CPU

[ILLsmak]

Well, for one they could just run the clock out. IF there was 26 seconds on the game clock and you dunk then that's not as big of a deal as less than 24. It's not just dunking, it's scoring at all. Just like it's weird to steal the ball from someone when they are dribbling the clock out.

If people are walking off the court, then you shouldn't dunk.

That being said, getting mad is even worse. Basically, there's no way to argue it's not disrespectful. However, people need to look at something as disrespectful and play harder next time. Or, even go at the person next time through basketball. But throwing the ball at them or confronting them is some bitchmade shit.

The best reaction is to be like lol ok. "You can't do that... you can't dunk... when no one is playing D..." it's like why not? But if people just shrug it off then the person who did it does kind of look like an ass.

But yea that ainge clip. That sound of the ball hitting his head. Shit. I've been hit with the ball on full court passes and it was no where near as powerful as that. It still gave me a migraine. That shit can give you a concussion.


Edit:


NO SPORTSMANSHIP FOR THE HALL OF FAME CPU


yea, jacking a 3, too. It's basically just like saying **** you to the other team.

-Smak

[f0und]

at the lower levels, its kinda being a bad sport. but at the professional level, i couldnt give two *hits. you know why? because at the end of the day, they can go home and do this:

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/crying-money-woody-harrelson-zombieland.gif

[Jailblazers7]

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way about this as about football teams running up the score...it's the defense's job to stop them. In the Lillard clip, he was basically waiting for a defender but Nate Robinson decided to just jog it out. If you don't want him to dunk, then run back and stop him from doing it.

I think sometimes a message should be send with big "**** you" dunk anyway. Like when Jordan did his cradle dunk against Maryland in college. Egos running wild is half the fun in basketball.

[bdreason]

Running up the score in a decided game has always been considered poor taste.

[bdreason]

In the Lillard clip, he was basically waiting for a defender but Nate Robinson decided to just jog it out. If you don't want him to dunk, then run back and stop him from doing it.




You really want someone trying to chase down and block/foul your All-Star PG at the end of an already decided game?

[PsychoBe]

remember when charles knocked hakeem down? :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQQcpWGC-xE

he told them not to do it and he ended up fouling hakeem hard even though he still made it.

[Random_Guy]

Don't forget about this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR4kVv08YM

Turner looks real apologetic about it. Look at Swaggy P so pissed he won't even accept the apology :lol

So, is there a difference between throwing down the slam for the 2 points in a decided game, vs waiting for the buzzer? If Turner had waited an extra 1.5s, would his dunk have been acceptable? Or still disrespectful?
remember that, dude threw it down:applause: :applause:

[Rake2204]

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way about this as about football teams running up the score...it's the defense's job to stop them. In the Lillard clip, he was basically waiting for a defender but Nate Robinson decided to just jog it out. If you don't want him to dunk, then run back and stop him from doing it.I tend to agree with this. There's really no harm in an NBA player dunking at the end of a game, unless there's bad blood brewing from both sides and it's already quite apparent (as was the case when the Suns played the Rockets in the playoffs in the 90's).

It's usually pretty easy to tell when a dunk is meant to incite something and when it's just a dunk. If Lillard had been in Chicago's face verbally all game and was looking to taunt them by performing his slam - that's poor taste and should not be done. If he's just dunking because the game is still going and there's a clear path between him and the rim - there should not be any harm.

It kind of reminds me of the small issue that came about when Brian Cardinal set a screen at half court toward the end of a Mavs win. The opponent was playing until the final buzzer, pressuring the length of the court - so Cardinal did too.

I guess the bigger point is, I struggle to see how it's become accepted as being virtually one of the worst things a player can do. Lillard dunks in a single-digit game with zero intent toward anyone and the announcers develop such discontent in their voice. Carl Landry does a chin-up on the rim and yells in the face of the Lakers while flexing like a mad man and it's "Great pass, great finish!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCz8Ydhv-z8

I like that Landry play, by the way. I just don't see how that's a shrug, but heaven forbid someone make an open dunk for the sake of just making a dunk.

[IGOTGAME]

When did we completely make the crossover from playing until the final buzzer regardless of who's winning and who's losing, to getting incredibly and uncomfortably offended if a player has the audacity to complete a routine dunk to push a late lead to eight?

As a player, even at the end of getting blown out, if a team dunked on us - it was probably our fault. It sucked, but that was basketball. The only thing that'd really get us would have been if the player dunking mocked us or tried to shamelessly rub it in our faces.

But now, even if a player has the most innocent intent of just playing basketball until the final buzzer (and heaven forbid giving the crowd something more to cheer about), the response is almost worse than if he were to have flagrantly fouled someone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKC9YGtBHd4

I'm living in the past I suppose, back when even the most upstanding NBA citizen could play until the final horn in a win and not have anyone bat an eyelash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxWJBI8cmqY#t=4m57s

dont think you are in touch with basketball culture. This has been a big deal since at least the 70s and 80s. One instance doesnt change anything.

[Rake2204]

dont think you are in touch with basketball culture. This has been a big deal since at least the 70s and 80s. One instance doesnt change anything.Intent seemed to matter more in the past. People did not take kindly to players trying to go out of their way to show up opponents (as in the case of the Suns-Rockets situations) but innocent game-ending breakaways have been prevalent throughout the history just as well (Cheeks' Finals clinch, Vince Carter closing out the Bucks, Kukoc against the Sonics, Robinson against the Sonics, Eddie Robinson against the Hawks, so on and so forth). Only now, everything seems to be taken as a personal affront. Even things that aren't worth being offended by, people are taking offense.

And again, if we want to deem it to be something probably not worth doing - I'm okay with that. I'm just surprised it seems to have leapfrogged so many other situations I find potentially more disrespectful and offensive. Like the Landry example above - yelling in an opponents' face is often met with excitement and joy - yet a harmless breakaway dunk is met with "WHAT IS HE DOING?!?!"

[Collie]

The internet.

No really. Most of the outrage these days are from fans who read Bleacher Report or ESPN who report on things like this. Also, I guess where you're playing matters. If you dunked at the final moments in front of your home crowd, then the fans would actually appreciate what you did.

Remember, we're living in the most PC-era ever. People's feelings are easily hurt, and I guess that extends to sports as well.

[oarabbus]

Intent seemed to matter more in the past. People did not take kindly to players trying to go out of their way to show up opponents (as in the case of the Suns-Rockets situations) but innocent game-ending breakaways have been prevalent throughout the history just as well (Cheeks' Finals clinch, Vince Carter closing out the Bucks, Kukoc against the Sonics, Robinson against the Sonics, Eddie Robinson against the Hawks, so on and so forth). Only now, everything seems to be taken as a personal affront. Even things that aren't worth being offended by, people are taking offense.

And again, if we want to deem it to be something probably not worth doing - I'm okay with that. I'm just surprised it seems to have leapfrogged so many other situations I find potentially more disrespectful and offensive. Like the Landry example above - yelling in an opponents' face is often met with excitement and joy - yet a harmless breakaway dunk is met with "WHAT IS HE DOING?!?!"

In all seriousness I think you'll find an uptick in the level of 'affront' taken in the early 2000s, around the time that hip-hop culture began to pervade the NBA.

[pudman13]

It's just the unwritten rules nowadays. It's considered disrespectful.


Sometimes the sports "codes" are the dumbest thing ever. That's considered disrespectful, but these people are OK with the trash talking, the guys screaming after dunks or beating their chests? Really??

And in baseball if a pitcher pumps his fist after striking someone out it's an insult, but if a guy hits a home run and throws his bat down in defiance, stands there and watches it before running, that's OK?

[Magic731]

We need to keep in mind that generally the people who are unhappy when this happens (the opposing team) have just lost a basketball game and are therefore already upset. I know myself, I'm an ultra competitive person I absolutely despise losing no matter what it's at. I know that after I lose I'm angry and the tiniest thing can really set me off. If this happens in my local league I get pissed off simply because I'm frustrated and am looking for any small thing to take my anger out on.

As I sit here and write this, the act itself doesn't seem so bad. But I know that if I've just lost a basketball game by a few points I'm likely very frustrated as a few plays didn't go our way and when the game ends I just want to get off the court not look at that stuff.

[Dresta]

It's just the unwritten rules nowadays. It's considered disrespectful.

Just like how *** meant cigars back then but now it's a disrespectful word.

You may/may not like it but it is what it is.
*** means cigarette in the UK, and is still commonly used. There's nothing disrespectful about it, and if anyone complained about it they'd be told by most to **** right off. Likewise, the Bulls players were just being salty little bitches as usual. You've lost the game, and this is just a way of being petty and so to shift anger and blame onto the opposition. It's rather typical in sports, and has nothing to do with respect, only fragile egos.

Americans are quickly becoming some of the softest people in the planet. It's pathetic really how high-strung people have become, and how the smallest issues become blown out of all proportion to support the interests of various interest groups, who care about nothing aside from extending their own power and influence over others. Lobbying has quickly become a means of controlling other people, regulating their thoughts and behaviours to get them into line with the moral consensus, which isn't much less rigid or dogmatic than it was in the 19th century, just different.

Your attitude also makes no sense because if everyone were to take such a fatalistic view, nothing would ever change, and moral values would be eternal and immutable - we simply discover preexisting moral rules! (i hope you recognise this as a complete fallacy, though it is the opinion many seem to hold to)

[T_L_P]

OP, this popped into my head from a '94 Rockets/Suns Playoffs game I watched a while ago. Do you just file this under Ainge being his usual self?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN1gfT2IUuo#t=55s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQQcpWGC-xE

Cmon Dream, stop padding.

[UK2K]

Cause our culture is soft. Males are weak now.

And just as has happened a thousand times before in history, weak societies crumble.