Magic + Bird /// Jordan + LeBron...

[Prometheus]

...to start a franchise. Who ya got?

[Genaro]

Always go for the option where Jordan is. Bran is a great Pippen prototype.

[Jlamb47]

Magic + Bird seem like a better fit. Only thing is defense i would worry about but both players pass so well and would complement each other.

Jordan + Lebron are both ball dominate and cant play off ball as well.

[Milbuck]

Jordan and Lebron, without question.

Forget the offense, the thought of peak Jordan and peak Lebron defensively is terrifying.

[Prometheus]

Magic + Bird seem like a better fit. Only thing is defense i would worry about but both players pass so well and would complement each other.

Jordan + Lebron are both ball dominate and cant play off ball as well.

:oldlol: Shh, don't say that too loud, 3ball might hear you :oldlol:

[3ball]

:oldlol: Shh, don't say that too loud, 3ball might hear you :oldlol:
honestly bro, if you don't think MJ played primarily off-ball, then you are literally either blind or dumb.

it's one of those things that let's me know you were flat-out lying about ever having watched him play... and you said you had watched him since 1991... ur a liar.
.

[navy]

Jordan and Lebron. Crazy offense and defense.

[MastaKilla]

Magic & Bird are the way better fit

Lebron would crumble playing with Jordan, would probably have a nervous breakdown after two weeks

[3ball]

jordan and lebron would be pretty perfect...

jordan's off-ball game would compliment lebron's on-ball game.

jordan's alpha would compliment lebron's beta.

the presence of both on the floor at the same time would greatly enhance both of their transition games.

they would realize incredible synergies, especially once jordan figures out the optimal way to get his 40 alongside lebron.

[Dr Hawk]

jordan and lebron would be pretty perfect...

jordan's off-ball game would compliment lebron's on-ball game.

jordan's alpha would compliment lebron's beta.

the presence of both on the floor at the same time would greatly enhance both of their transition games.

they would realize incredible synergies, especially once jordan figures out the optimal way to get his 40 alongside lebron.

Defensively Jordan + Lebron would be a LOT better than Magic and Bird, but, which pair do you think fit better on offense? Bird's off-ball game was awesome.

[Kblaze8855]

Magic and Bird would(and I hate this term) make each other better. Much like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjYuKvJS55E

Jordan and Lebron? Neither of them could be who we know them...if they had to bend their game around the other.

Jordan being such a forceful personality...he would lead...Lebron would have to follow. But Lebron without the ball in his hands isnt nearly as effective...and Jordan wouldnt watch Lebron stand at the top of the arc for 8 seconds.

You wouldnt get....the best Jordan and the best Lebron.

You could get the best out of Bird and Magic on the same team. And I cant even imagine the passing those two would generate.

Imagine a lineup of Magic, Manu, and Bird with some good pick and roll defending bigmen one of which can step outside a bit?

Id have a lot more fun watching that team than watching Jordan bitch Lebron into a sidekick.

Both teams would win a ring or three(provided the other isnt in the same league)....but the Magic/bird team would play much closer to its potential.

[Micku]

Jordan and LBJ would be beast. They would be similar to MJ and Pip. LBJ would control the ball more and Jordan would play off the ball. They probably wouldn't be as beast defensively as Jordan and Pip, but better offensively.

Magic and Bird might have chemistry at the start tho. The passing would be beautiful.

[Trollsmasher]

Depends on if Jordan could accept a default 2nd option position. But LeBron would most likely have no problem forcing it on him.

[riseagainst]

Magic and Bird would(and I hate this term) make each other better. Much like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjYuKvJS55E



:bowdown:
:bowdown:
:bowdown:
:bowdown:
:bowdown:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Defensively it's definitely Jordan + LeBron, that perimeter pressure would be crazy; at their best, Bird was really good and Magic was above average/decent, so yea, the other duo clearly takes it. Athleticism also plays a part in it, even though Larry/Magic got the height advantage, that's also nice...

Offensively? Bird and Magic on the same team? :eek: Shit's scary, they were both offensive monsters while their game goes together extremely well. You got Magic with his great ball-handling, his unreal passing-skills, his ability to "control" a team, great finishing skills and post-game (even his always developing spot-up shooting), along with Bird's terrific off-ball game, quick passing, little wasted motion, his tremendous overall shooting, post-game and shot-creation... Perfect fit offensively you can say, they were both very unselfish too, very smart and knew when to take over. Plus, those two are second to none when it comes to making teammates/teams better. Not to mention that they loved to play with eachother.
Just watching stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kruHBD5HaY0
:applause: :bowdown: The IQ, the skill, the impact, the chemistry, the ability to make others better... Crazy.

Overall I'd take Bird and Magic, that offense, chemistry, intangibles, ability to make teammates better... is too much to neglect. I can't see Jordan and LeBron fitting even as close to Bird + Magic, on offense. Plus, you add a good/versatile perimeter defender, along with a solid defensive big to a team with Larry and Johnson, and you can easily have a nice defensive team, at least.

[SHAQisGOAT]

:bowdown:
:bowdown:
:bowdown:
:bowdown:
:bowdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kruHBD5HaY0

[r0drig0lac]

Jordan

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan being such a forceful personality...he would lead...Lebron would have to follow. But Lebron without the ball in his hands isnt nearly as effective...and Jordan wouldnt watch Lebron stand at the top of the arc for 8 seconds.

Jordan could lead without having the ball in his hands the most on his team - he did it for at least 4 of his 6 titles, probably 5 of them. And he can certainly deal with Lebron having the ball for 8 seconds, because on about 50-60% of his possessions between '91-'98 other players had the ball more than 8 seconds on each possession.

[bizil]

Starting a team, gotta go Jordan and Lebron. And the reason why is defensively. I get to kill two birds with one stone because I'm getting two alpha dogs who are also great versatile defenders. MJ can play and defend PG, SG, and SF. Bron can play and defend PG, SG, SF, and PF. Plus MJ is epic in the midrange game and can dominate in any fashion from that area. INCLUDING catch and shoot situations. Bron would play the Pippen role BUT is a much more dominant scorer in addition to that. Magic and Bird is the better fit for offense, but I gotta roll with Bron and MJ together as a whole.

[fpliii]

Magic + Bird seem like a better fit. Only thing is defense i would worry about but both players pass so well and would complement each other.

Jordan + Lebron are both ball dominate and cant play off ball as well.
MJ was terrific off-ball. He pounded the rock a lot in the 80s, but that was mostly due to lack of scoring talent and lack of creativity by Collins.

A big subplot of the first title was, as you probably are aware, whether or not MJ and Scottie would buy into the Triangle (which required them to play off-ball more, so some of their less offensively-talented teammates had a means to score within a system with which they were acquainted/comfortable come the playoffs).

[Kblaze8855]

Jordan could lead without having the ball in his hands the most on his team - he did it for at least 4 of his 6 titles, probably 5 of them. And he can certainly deal with Lebron having the ball for 8 seconds, because on about 50-60% of his possessions between '91-'98 other players had the ball more than 8 seconds on each possession.

Its not a matter of if he can deal with it. Its a matter of it being ideal...and the team functioning at its best. Im sure we all agree that Wade/Lebron...didnt literally fail to work. It resulted in 4 finals and 2 rings. But Wade cant be his very best at the same time Lebron is...because they are too redundant.

Sure it can work off sheer talent...as Jordan/Lebron would. As I said...they would win rings. That is obvious.

But they would win because they would destroy teams at 80% of what they could be. Not because they were playing as well together as one would like.

[ArbitraryWater]

Magic/Bird would play more to their potential? Perhaps..

Still, the defensive difference is HUGE... Sets them apart, really.

Offensively I'd give it close to wash.. Jordan/'Bron overall.

[bizil]

Magic/Bird would play more to their potential? Perhaps..

Still, the defensive difference is HUGE... Sets them apart, really.

Offensively I'd give it close to wash.. Jordan/'Bron overall.

I agree! The defense is just too much to ignore. And to be frank I wouldn't take ANY PERIMETER tandem over MJ-Bron. No if it were Magic-Kareem or MJ and Bron, I would take Magic-Kareem. Or if it was Kobe-Shaq, I would take Kobe-Shaq. Or if it was Bird with Wilt, Dream, Walton, Duncan, or Moses, i would take Bird with a great center. But for strictly perimeter, I can't come with a better tandem than MJ-Bron.

[ArbitraryWater]

I agree! The defense is just too much to ignore. And to be frank I wouldn't take ANY PERIMETER tandem over MJ-Bron. No if it were Magic-Kareem or MJ and Bron, I would take Magic-Kareem. Or if it was Kobe-Shaq, I would take Kobe-Shaq. Or if it was Bird with Wilt, Dream, Walton, Duncan, or Moses, i would take Bird with a great center. But for strictly perimeter, I can't come with a better tandem than MJ-Bron.

Pretty much..

Magic/Bird can play more to their strengths, they will still be inferior to TWO dominant 2-way forces that are better scores and defenders.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Bird and magic are the better offensive threat, but I'll still take MJ/LeBron.

-Elite defense
-Ability to create their own shots
-LeBron's unselfish style of play would probably result in 5 assists a game to Jordan alone
-LeBron and Jordan on the open fast break? Game over

I think LeBron's game would compliment Jordan pretty well, especially if it's the type of LeBron we've seen this year with all of those assists.

[ArbitraryWater]

-LeBron and Jordan on the open fast break?

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/meep/src/133145278177.gif

[fragokota]

Too close to tell, i think i'd go with Magic/Larry at the end. I think they match better although you can't go wrong with a MJ/Lebron combo.

[swagga]

jordan + bron on defense and fastbreak is :lol

bron + old wade went 2/4 finals + 27 winning streak
bron + peak jordan is just unfair.

Offensively people might think they'd go as wade+bron but it's not close at all imo. Jordan is much better off ball and with the midrange game so spacing would not be an issue.

Magic + bird is great and would be superior in the 80s, but the slashing potential of jordan + lebron would do much more damage in todays game as all the defending bigs would be in some crazy foul trouble.

[SamuraiSWISH]

No slight to Magic / Larry ... but I'm taking Jordan / LeBron on defense, and durability alone.

Jordan is a natural alpha, and LeBron would defer to a greater talent. He'd be the same good cop leader to teammates Pippen was where as MJ would still be the bad cop.

LeBron can dominate the ball as PG, and distribute. Jordan from '91 - '98 proved he could score 30 - 32 ppg playing a non ball dominant, off the ball style of play.

James isn't called Super Pippen for no reason. Besides being a slightly lesser defender due to consistency, and offensive energy conservation ... from 2011 - 2013 he proved he's a terror on that end.

I don't think there is many duos Big Man - Little Man included that I'd pick over Jordan and LeBron.

Think about it, James and Wade are redundant yet they went to 4x straight Finals. Won 2. And Wade is a poor man's late 80's Jordan. Not even PEAK Jordan from '90 - '93.

MJ / LeBron all day. It's like Batman and Superman. World's Finest style.

[ArbitraryWater]

Still shook by the idea of Mike and 'Bron on the fast break

[SamuraiSWISH]

Still shook by the idea of Mike and 'Bron on the fast break
2x of the greatest leapers, finishers, and fast break forces of all-time on the same court. Absolutely terrifying. Does anyone think a lineup of MJ, LeBron, and Pippen could work?

[SouBeachTalents]

Tough choice, but I'd take Jordan & LeBron

[Suguru101]

2x of the greatest leapers, finishers, and fast break forces of all-time on the same court. Absolutely terrifying. Does anyone think a lineup of MJ, LeBron, and Pippen could work?

Dude, stop. :roll:

I am laughing so hard right now at how ridiculously good that would be.

[bizil]

No slight to Magic / Larry ... but I'm taking Jordan / LeBron on defense, and durability alone.

Jordan is a natural alpha, and LeBron would defer to a greater talent. He'd be the same good cop leader to teammates Pippen was where as MJ would still be the bad cop.

LeBron can dominate the ball as PG, and distribute. Jordan from '91 - '98 proved he could score 30 - 32 ppg playing a non ball dominant, off the ball style of play.

James isn't called Super Pippen for no reason. Besides being a slightly lesser defender due to consistency, and offensive energy conservation ... from 2011 - 2013 he proved he's a terror on that end.

I don't think there is many duos Big Man - Little Man included that I'd pick over Jordan and LeBron.

Think about it, James and Wade are redundant yet they went to 4x straight Finals. Won 2. And Wade is a poor man's late 80's Jordan. Not even PEAK Jordan from '90 - '93.

MJ / LeBron all day. It's like Batman and Superman. World's Finest style.

Well said! In terms of two way effectiveness IT CAN'T get any better than Bron and MJ on the perimeter. If I had to name a duo that would be the closest, it would probably be Kobe teaming with Pippen, prime G Hill, or Wade. But NONE OF THOSE DUOS can eclipse Bron and MJ.

[Milbuck]

If we're drafting these players at the same time...if you get the Lebron/MJ duo a Tyson Chandler-like center who exists purely to rebound, defend the rim, and demand nothing offensively outside of hustle points...I don't see how they lose from their 3rd year onwards. Literally every single year from their 3rd year onwards, I don't know who would be able to beat them 4 times out of 7. During their 6-9th seasons (90-93 Jordan, 09-12 Lebron), you might as well hand them 4 championship trophies in advance and let everyone play for 2nd place.

[Prometheus]

honestly bro, if you don't think MJ played primarily off-ball, then you are literally either blind or dumb.

it's one of those things that let's me know you were flat-out lying about ever having watched him play... and you said you had watched him since 1991... ur a liar.
.

:oldlol:

You completely misunderstood my comment. I just thought it was funny that someone said Jordan and LeBron were both ball-dominant since you and I have literally been arguing about Jordan/LeBron and ball-dominance for what feels like a lifetime.

LeBron is absolutely 100% and without question a more ball-dominant player than Jordan was, I just don't think the gap is as extreme as you make it out to be. Calm down.

And I'd also like to point out that the extent to which Jordan played off-ball seemed to increase drastically during the second three-peat.

[3ball]

Prometheus - i'm not sure we are on the same page about what off-ball play actually is.

certainly, if a player is already dribbling and maintaining an existing dribble, that means they are or have become the primary ballhandler.... and so if they make a move off-the-dribble, it is obviously NOT an off-ball play.

but when a player catches the ball and hasn't dribbled yet, they are in a pre-dribble stationary position (triple-threat position) - as long as they make a move out of the triple-threat within a second or two of catching the ball, it is a slashing play, not a primary ballhandler play - here's an example where Jordan takes Rodman out of the triple-threat: this is Jordan playing off-ball:

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/a9a532eed8e9765b32f62c10e401918d.gif


quick moves out of the triple-threat are off-ball plays - the player catches the ball and makes a quick move... obviously, if the player catches and holds it forever in the triple-threat position and doesn't make his move, the player becomes an on-ball player by virtue of holding it for so long.

[3ball]

:oldlol:

I just don't think the gap is as extreme as you make it out to be.


please bro - do me a favor - and it's not a big favor... go back and watch some MJ footage... please, i beg you.

i really don't think you've watched him at all - i think you go by your pre-conceived notions - that's the only way you could think lebron and jordan play alike at all.

(we might differ on what constitutes an off-ball play, so i defined what i think an off-ball play is in the previous post - post #37).





And I'd also like to point out that the extent to which Jordan played off-ball seemed to increase drastically during the second three-peat.


see, this is what i'm talking about - you don't have a clue of what you are saying.

starting when Jordan was at north carolina, he got 70%+ of his points off-ball (i defined what i consider an off-ball play in the previous post).

in his north carolina days and early NBA days, he got mostly quick catch-and-go's where he would finish with his trademark athleticism... in his 2nd three-peat after baseball, he posted up a super-ton, which is what i think you referred to in your post.

take a minute and go visit some jordan youtube pages - the best ones are listed below - each uploader has his own style of doing the vids (music, type of highlight, etc):

wistiti93420: https://www.youtube.com/user/wistiti93420
balthus23: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYPNorUVmhAQt-lLohwPOOQ
mdestinier: https://www.youtube.com/user/medestinier

you may as well learn about the GOAT's game if you're going to be a hoops fan... :confusedshrug:
.

[Prometheus]

See I want to argue with you but I already have a headache. Save it for the other thread, at least out of common decency. I just want peoples' opinions on Magic/Bird vs. Jordan/Bron.

[J Shuttlesworth]

:roll: ****ing 3ball stirring shit up. Send a PM man

[pauk]

Prime Jordan + Lebron sounds a bit more terrifying for opponents on both ends of the floor.

[VIntageNOvel]

So Magic and Bird or
basically Jordan and Pippen

:confusedshrug:

[Kvnzhangyay]

So Magic and Bird or
basically Jordan and Pippen

:confusedshrug:

No its more like magic and Bird

or Jordan + Lebron

[3ball]

See I want to argue with you but I already have a headache. Save it for the other thread, at least out of common decency. I just want peoples' opinions on Magic/Bird vs. Jordan/Bron.
you say a lot of ignorant shit so i was going off precedent.

if you think there "isn't that much of a gap" then you need to watch full game highlights of jordan - that's the best way to see how much of an off-ball player he was.

the compilation highlight videos might not give you the visibility you need.
.

[305Baller]

After giving it some thought Id say Magic and Bird. Bird would be a better off ball parter for Magic. But it's pretty even.

[The Red Viper]

MJ and LeBron for me.

Magic + Bird would be orgasmic to watch in the offensive end with their ball movement and all, but MJ + LeBron would ne more effective in terms of scoring. The defense though, is what sets it apart though. You get two very good defenders who can lock-down almost any perimeter player.

And like someone said, MJ and LeBron on a fast break?

http://i.imgur.com/JFlVR49.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

After giving it some thought Id say Magic and Bird. Bird would be a better off ball parter for Magic. But it's pretty even.
Are you going to have to surround them with all-time caliber defenders on the perimeter like Dennis Johnson, Byron Scott, and Michael Cooper?

Whose going to finish their fast break passes? Worthy?

MJ, and LeBron? They are nightmare on their own starting, and especially finishing the fastbreak.

All you need is some spot up shooters to stretch the floor, and a rebounder. They're more complete basketball players, easily. More versatile. While also being cream of the crop freak all-time athletes, and a personality chemistry that wouldn't impede the other.

Magic is versatile offensively. Could play PG - PF, but can only guard SFs. And not well.

Bird can play SF or PF, and in most leagues ... especially later Bird would have to defend PFs. Basically play the stretch four position after his back injury.

They have limitations.

Where as MJ can play PG, SG, or SF offensively. And can also defend each of those positions at the greatest level.

LeBron can play PG, SG, SF, and PF offensively. And can also defend each of those positions at a high level.

Virtually no weakness there. Mentality wise MJ's confidence, mental toughness, and courage offsets Bron's tentativeness, and cowardice. Where as LeBron's approachability, trusting nature and selflessness can off set MJ's at times untrusting approach.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XWwaqn_M4as/TeB0271y1hI/AAAAAAAABEI/Yl2iOj81_xg/s1600/nba_mj_lebron3_576.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

Are you going to have to surround them with all-time caliber defenders on the perimeter like Dennis Johnson, Byron Scott, and Michael Cooper?

Whose going to finish their fast break passes? Worthy?

MJ, and LeBron? They are nightmare on their own starting, and especially finishing the fastbreak.

All you need is some spot up shooters to stretch the floor, and a rebounder. They're more complete basketball players, easily. More versatile. While also being cream of the crop freak all-time athletes, and a personality chemistry that wouldn't impede the other.

Magic is versatile offensively. Could play PG - PF, but can only guard SFs. And not well.

Bird can play SF or PF, and in most leagues ... especially later Bird would have to defend PFs. Basically play the stretch four position after his back injury.

They have limitations.

Where as MJ can play PG, SG, or SF offensively. And can also defend each of those positions at the greatest level.

LeBron can play PG, SG, SF, and PF offensively. And can also defend each of those positions at a high level.

Virtually no weakness there. Mentality wise MJ's confidence, mental toughness, and courage offsets Bron's tentativeness, and cowardice. Where as LeBron's approachability, trusting nature and selflessness can off set MJ's at times untrusting approach.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XWwaqn_M4as/TeB0271y1hI/AAAAAAAABEI/Yl2iOj81_xg/s1600/nba_mj_lebron3_576.jpg

:bowdown:

[Soundwave]

MJ + LeBron would never lose, but for I'd probably be more curious to see Magic + Bird play together.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Are you going to have to surround them with all-time caliber defenders on the perimeter like Dennis Johnson, Byron Scott, and Michael Cooper?

Whose going to finish their fast break passes? Worthy?

MJ, and LeBron? They are nightmare on their own starting, and especially finishing the fastbreak.

All you need is some spot up shooters to stretch the floor, and a rebounder. They're more complete basketball players, easily. More versatile. While also being cream of the crop freak all-time athletes, and a personality chemistry that wouldn't impede the other.

Magic is versatile offensively. Could play PG - PF, but can only guard SFs. And not well.

Bird can play SF or PF, and in most leagues ... especially later Bird would have to defend PFs. Basically play the stretch four position after his back injury.

They have limitations.

Where as MJ can play PG, SG, or SF offensively. And can also defend each of those positions at the greatest level.

LeBron can play PG, SG, SF, and PF offensively. And can also defend each of those positions at a high level.

Virtually no weakness there. Mentality wise MJ's confidence, mental toughness, and courage offsets Bron's tentativeness, and cowardice. Where as LeBron's approachability, trusting nature and selflessness can off set MJ's at times untrusting approach.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XWwaqn_M4as/TeB0271y1hI/AAAAAAAABEI/Yl2iOj81_xg/s1600/nba_mj_lebron3_576.jpg

Byron Scott is not an all-time caliber defender. And speaking of Dennis Johnson, he was not with the Celtics in the early 80's, he was not there in 1979-80 when they were 4th in DRtg, after being bottom3 in the previous season then making a BIG improvement to one of the best defenses in the league, with the same core roster but now with Bird and coach Fitch. While Larry was 1st in DWS and 6th in DRtg. I could go on... but basically, let's not underrated Bird's defensive impact.
And DJ was past his peak with the Celtics, still great though.

Magic was a great finisher at the rim (along with great ball-handling skills), and Bird could run/finish breaks, especially when you talk about jumpers in transition too.
Furthermore, is not hard to finish the terrific looks players would get from Magic or Larry, they were setting up easy looks for teammates all day... Won't be hard to find a players who can make bunnies and such...

So Jordan and LeBron get the spot-up shooters and a rebounder but Bird and Magic can't get a perimeter defender and even a defensive big? OK :rolleyes:

Magic couldn't guard PG's or SG's? Gimme a break... You're acting like every PG/SG is an elite scorer or has elite quickness. And on the other end you got fewer PG's who could guard him, also.
Weren't you the one who said Sleepy Floyd dropped 51 on Magic (when Coop/Scott were the ones guarding him)?
He was never what you call a good defender yea plus he was 6'8 without elite athleticism so quicker guys could be a problem (obviously), but he was versatile with a solid IQ (and he could also guard 3's and 4's).

I tell you who Jordan couldn't defend... Larry and Magic :lol I remember him being switched because he was getting killed...

Bird and Magic are at the very top all-time when it comes to improving teammates, Jordan and LeBron can't really **** with that. Michael and James can't bring the overall passing and chemistry that Larry and Johnson can, they don't even fit as well as Magic+Bird offensively (not even that close), which is basically a perfect fit. Plus, MJ and Bron got the athleticism but Bird and Magic got the height, and better rebounding too. Paint could be too clogged with Jordan and LeBron, for example, too...
It's easier to "make" a good defensive team than an elite offensive team, and you're better with elite offense and good defense than the other way around (especially when adding rebounding).
Keep thinking every "area" goes to Jordan/LeBron, keep thinking it ain't extremely close, keep thinking that only Bird/Magic got limitations... :rolleyes:

Oh, Bird and Magic actually got to play with each other, showing how terrific they would've been together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kruHBD5HaY0
**** pictures, I'll :bowdown: :applause: to that...

http://i40.tinypic.com/3094vf5.gif
http://i42.tinypic.com/3177epx.gif

[VIntageNOvel]

:biggums:
MJ bran wouldnt be as good as MJ Pippen,

see 2011, and with rich man wade


Larry and Magic would go 82-0:coleman:

[Prometheus]

MJ bran wouldnt be as good as MJ Pippen,


It's okay if you wanna be a Kobe stan, but it would be nice if you didn't say things that let everyone know your opinion is meaningless.