If Houston had traded Sampson

[Marchesk]

to Portland for Drexler and their 2nd pick back in 84, let's say they end up with 8 titles. Magic is denied his 5th in the 80s, the Pistons only get 1 championship, and the Rockets take the Bulls place in the 90s.

How would that change the all-time rankings for MJ, Hakeem and Clyde? Would there be an argument over who was better, Jordan or Hakeem?

This is assuming Clyde works well at the small forward position on that team, and isn't traded for Stocton or Scottie at some point.

[Demitri98]

Neither team runs a 90s dynasty, but Bulls/Rockets meet in the Finals pretty much every year from 1991 to 1997. winning maybe 3-3 chips a piece. MJ is still considered top 5 all time and Hakeem has an argument for GOAT. The MJ's Bulls/Hakeem's Rockets rivalry goes to-to-toe with Bird/Magic as the GOAT rivalry.

Rockets end up with 6 or 7 titles (a few in the 80s before Jordan's Bulls really become a threat) and Hakeem is easily top 3 all time.

Bulls end with maybe 4 titles and MJ is consensus top 5 all time.

Jordan/Pippen is not the consensus GOAT duo and Hakeem/Drexler is in the discussion.

[sdot_thadon]

Neither team runs a 90s dynasty, but Bulls/Rockets meet in the Finals pretty much every year from 1991 to 1997. winning maybe 3-3 chips a piece. MJ is still considered top 5 all time and Hakeem has an argument for GOAT. The MJ's Bulls/Hakeem's Rockets rivalry goes to-to-toe with Bird/Magic as the GOAT rivalry.

Rockets end up with 6 or 7 titles (a few in the 80s before Jordan's Bulls really become a threat) and Hakeem is easily top 3 all time.

Bulls end with maybe 4 titles and MJ is consensus top 5 all time.

Jordan/Pippen is not the consensus GOAT duo and Hakeem/Drexler is in the discussion.
Think you missed what he's getting at, if the trade goes down you get Mj, dream, and clyde all on the same squad. Dream's legacy gets a huge boost as the focus on bigs was so much greater then and he'd be outstanding. Clyde gets a boost because he's no longer is a contemporary of Mj but a teammate instead. So his legacy wont always hinge on how he was outdueled by Mj. Mj gets diminished majorly because he wouldn't be the focus of the team straight away as he was in chicago. He'd still be an outstanding player due to his talent but I don't believe he'd still be regarded as goat. They'd be a dynasty no doubt maybe rivaling Russell's celtics if things fell into place right. They would be an absolute nightmare defensively.

[Demitri98]

Think you missed what he's getting at, if the trade goes down you get Mj, dream, and clyde all on the same squad. Dreams legacy gets a huge boost as the focus on bigs was so much greater then and he'd be outstanding. Clyde gets a boost because he no longer is a contemporary of Mj but a teammate instead. So his legacy wont always hinge on how he was outdueled by Mj. Mj gets diminished majorly because he wouldn't be the focus of the team straight away as he was in chicago. He'd still be an outstanding player due to his talent but I don't believe he'd still be regarded as goat. They'd be a dynasty no doubt maybe rivaling Russell's celtics if things fell into place right. They would be an absolute nightmare defensively.
Ah, I missed the 2nd pick part. Thought it was just Sampson for Clyde straight up.

That team wins every title from 1988-1998.

[DamnMixes]

Really depends on what other pieces the rockets have. Perimeter defense is necessary to at least do something against pippen and jordan.

Hakeem would dominate the post, it was always that formula that you could slow them bulls down, magic beat the bulls for one time, didn't see full effect in 96 when grant went down. Even Knicks with healthy Ewing could make the series busier than the finals as well.

[sdot_thadon]

Really depends on what other pieces the rockets have. Perimeter defense is necessary to at least do something against pippen and jordan.

Hakeem would dominate the post, it was always that formula that you could slow them bulls down, magic beat the bulls for one time, didn't see full effect in 96 when grant went down. Even Knicks with healthy Ewing could make the series busier than the finals as well.
The rockets wouldn't be playing against Jordan, he'd be part of the team.

The potential trade they passed on was Sampson for Clyde and the blazers pick the following year (turned out to be #2). The rockets won the lottery(drafted Dream) and would have had the number 2 pick also (Jordan).

[MiseryCityTexas]

Rockets could have easily drafted Drexler if they really wanted to, but felt like they already had Lewis Lloyd and Robert Reid at the time lmao.

[sdot_thadon]

Rockets could have easily drafted Drexler if they really wanted to, but felt like they already had Lewis Lloyd and Robert Reid at the time lmao.
Right lol, hindsight is 20/20 though. Bet whoever the gm was wanted to hang himself by 92.

[Marchesk]

The potential trade they passed on was Sampson for Clyde and the blazers pick the following year (turned out to be #2). The rockets won the lottery(drafted Dream) and would have had the number 2 pick also (Jordan).

What I've read is that in the 84 draft, Portland would have been willing to send Drexler and their 2nd pick to Houston for Sampson. That way, Houston drafts Olajuwon first, Jordan second, and then they get Drexler as a bonus.

Back then, Sampson was highly regarded, and the Rockets relished having the twin tower front court.

[Marchesk]

ream's legacy gets a huge boost as the focus on bigs was so much greater then and he'd be outstanding. Clyde gets a boost because he's no longer is a contemporary of Mj but a teammate instead. So his legacy wont always hinge on how he was outdueled by Mj. Mj gets diminished majorly because he wouldn't be the focus of the team straight away as he was in chicago. He'd still be an outstanding player due to his talent but I don't believe he'd still be regarded as goat.

Isn't it funny how team success plays into all-time individual ranking? This scenario wasn't in any of the player's control, but it is one that could have realistically happened if the Rockets didn't favor having a massive front court over two really good perimeter talents.

[SHAQisGOAT]

What I've read is that in the 84 draft, Portland would have been willing to send Drexler and their 2nd pick to Houston for Sampson. That way, Houston drafts Olajuwon first, Jordan second, and then they get Drexler as a bonus.

Back then, Sampson was highly regarded, and the Rockets relished having the twin tower front court.

Tbh, that was the team of the future in the mid-80's. Coaches, players, experts... everybody was counting on it.
Potential was major and they were already great, even beat the showtime Lakers and got to the Finals.
Very dominant, tall and young C/PF duo, great wing defender, nice PG, nice scoring/shooting SG, pretty versatile 6th man, solid role-players, solid bench, playing good basketball, displaying good chemistry, had a good coach... but then Sampson got injured and whatnot, they had off-court "problems" with more players too, and it all fell apart.

In hindsight, the "responsibles" for all those decisions must have deep regrets, though...

[sdot_thadon]

Isn't it funny how team success plays into all-time individual ranking? This scenario wasn't in any of the player's control, but it is one that could have realistically happened if the Rockets didn't favor having a massive front court over two really good perimeter talents.
Yeah that's exactly why goat debates should be handled a bit more delicately than the standard straight forward, rigid way it's done now. Context of careers can change so easily and drastically with one decision.

[KungFuJoe]

Isn't it funny how team success plays into all-time individual ranking? This scenario wasn't in any of the player's control, but it is one that could have realistically happened if the Rockets didn't favor having a massive front court over two really good perimeter talents.

Yup...this is why I still think Lebron is a great player even though he's never legitimately won a title.