guys who have been the leagues most popular and best player at the same time

[kennethgriffin]

- george mikan
- bob cousy
- bill russell
- oscar robertson
- wilt chamberlain
- jerry west
- kareem abdul jabbar
- julius erving
- larry bird
- magic johnson
- michael jordan
- shaquille o'neal
- kobe bryant
- lebron james


the most important players to the game of basketball all time

everyone else doesnt matter

[sportjames23]

Surprised you put Lebron on this list.

[kennethgriffin]

Surprised you put Lebron on this list.

i'm not insercure like bran babies

lebrons a legend

people only hate what they fear. at this point lebron has no chance at catching kobe all time.. maybe he might pass hakeem though for #10 all time

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe's theme song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU

[kennethgriffin]

basically this list is the torch carrier/passer that fallowed

[sportjames23]

i'm not insercure like bran babies

lebrons a legend

people only hate what they fear. at this point lebron has no chance at catching kobe all time.. maybe he might pass hakeem though for #10 all time


:cheers:

For this, I wish we had some Dream stans here.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe's theme song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU


so mad.. see.. i could care less about lebron enough to make a joke about the guy right now.. like listing finals records or colluding.

i couldnt care less.

people only rip on those who they respect. they ignore the ones who they "actually" dont respect

like what we all do with durant right now

[JohnMax]

Kobe has never been the best player while Lebron has never been as popular as Kobe

[Akrazotile]

Kobe was never even as good as CURRENT Duncan :oldlol:

[Papaya Petee]

i'm not insercure like bran babies

lebrons a legend

people only hate what they fear. at this point lebron has no chance at catching kobe all time.. maybe he might pass hakeem though for #10 all time
It's hard to catch someone when you're already comfortably ahead of them.

[Budadiiii]

Kobe was never even as good as CURRENT Duncan :oldlol:
http://i.imgur.com/VMlLdGy.gif

[HOoopCityJones]

http://i.imgur.com/VMlLdGy.gif

:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe has never been the best player while Lebron has never been as popular as Kobe




Kobe was never even as good as CURRENT Duncan :oldlol:

you're both so damn p*ssy

disgruntled as f*ck

imagine if kobe fans went around saying guys like jordan/lebron/other top 10 caliber legends were "never the best" or "not as good as 40 year old duncan"


we'd look like old bettys screamin at a soap opera


http://i61.tinypic.com/2ew1nkp.png

[Suguru101]

Kenneth, Dr. J wasn't better than Kareem while they were in the NBA.

Apart from that, solid list.

Stop doing Duncan fans dirty. LMAO.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's arguably Cousy was never the best player in the league as well, you could argue Pettit was the best player in the league between Mikan and Russell

[SexSymbol]

- george mikan
- bob cousy
- bill russell
- oscar robertson
- wilt chamberlain
- jerry west
- kareem abdul jabbar
- julius erving
- larry bird
- magic johnson
- michael jordan
- shaquille o'neal
- kobe bryant
- lebron james


the most important players to the game of basketball all time

everyone else doesnt matter
Shaq was never the most popular and the best player in the game

[J Shuttlesworth]

i'm not insercure like bran babies

lebrons a legend

people only hate what they fear. at this point lebron has no chance at catching kobe all time.. maybe he might pass hakeem though for #10 all time
Curious... you don't think Durant is one of the most important players? I'm not disagreeing, but what's your opinion on KD?

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq was never the most popular and the best player in the game

:biggums:

[fpliii]

:cheers:

For this, I wish we had some Dream stans here.
I know millwad is a Dream fan, but I think he's currently banned.

I have Hakeem 5th all-time (after MJ and the top three bigs). He and Shaq are the best two players I've seen at their peaks (missed peak MJ) by a good margin. :rockon:

[fpliii]

- george mikan
- bob cousy
- bill russell
- oscar robertson
- wilt chamberlain
- jerry west
- kareem abdul jabbar
- julius erving
- larry bird
- magic johnson
- michael jordan
- shaquille o'neal
- kobe bryant
- lebron james


the most important players to the game of basketball all time

everyone else doesnt matter
Not a bad list, some things I'd change:

1) Mikan played pre-shot clock, and by impact Cousy wasn't the best player in the league at any time. Both also played when the league was segregated (it was mostly black starting with Russell's peak). Your call though.
2) I don't know if Oscar was the best player in the league (top 3 from that era though, and one of three guys with Russ and Wilt who I think would dominate today), but IMO West wasn't.
3) Shaq might not be the most popular. AI was during that period, at least around me (though Shaq's my favorite player all-time). People in general don't like big men as much as perimeter players, so I'd say Kareem is the last guy who was most popular in the league.

[SexSymbol]

:biggums:
Iverson was more popular in Shaq's peak.
Before the peak it was Jordan after the peak it was Kobe.
Shaq was never the most popular player in the league

[pauk]

i'm not insercure like bran babies

lebrons a legend

people only hate what they fear. at this point lebron has no chance at catching kobe all time.. maybe he might pass hakeem though for #10 all time

Yet you contradict yourself with that last comment.

Most would say its not to so absurd to argue he has surpassed Kobe all time already, so the chance of him not doing it is virtually impossible unless he never wins another mvp or fmvp again.... or has a career ending injury.... and Hakeem shouldnt be in discussion being above any of these two.

[fpliii]

and Hakeem shouldnt be in discussion being above any of these two.
So you think LeBron and Kobe played basketball at a higher level than Hakeem? Without mentioning accolades, would you honestly take either over Hakeem to start a franchise?

Christ, unquestionably the most underrated player on this site.

[pauk]

So you think LeBron and Kobe played basketball at a higher level than Hakeem? Without mentioning accolades, would you honestly take either over Hakeem to start a franchise?

Christ, unquestionably the most underrated player on this site.

I love Hakeem, i watched the crap out of him in the 90s, give him all the props for managing 2 rings 2 fmvps & 1 mvp.......... but no matter how you twist and turn it 2 rings 2 fmvps & 4 mvps is more.... and so is 5 rings 2 fmvps & 1 mvp..... especially when you consider everything else they had over him as the more prominent players....... players who actually were the best, the most dominant players in the league who got their hardware no matter WHO was in the league...... they didnt need for the most prominent player in the league to take a 2 year vacation for them to get their hardware....... why? Because THEY were the most prominent players in the world.....

No my friend, Hakeem is not underrated here.... its more like the biggest opposite...

[Done_And_Done]

Vince Carter for all of like 2 and a half weeks perhaps

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Duncan is better than Kobe. Nice to see you making progress though...

https://eclosure.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/LocnessDesignsdotcom.jpg

I'd say you're at the bargaining phase.

[SouBeachTalents]

Vince Carter for all of like 2 and a half weeks perhaps

Lol, I don't think he was the best player in the league for even that long

[fpliii]

I love Hakeem, i watched the crap out of him in the 90s, give him all the props for managing 2 rings 2 fmvps & 1 mvp.......... but no matter how you twist and turn it but 2 rings 2 fmvps & 4 mvps is more.... and so is 5 rings 2 fmvps & 1 mvp..... especially when you consider everything else they had over him as the more prominent players....... players who actually were the best, the most dominant players in the league who got their hardware no matter WHO was in the league...... they didnt need for the most prominent player in the league to take a 2 year vacation for them to get their hardware....... why? Because THEY were the most prominent players in the world.....

No my friend, Hakeem is not underrated here.... its the biggest opposite...
:facepalm

[fpliii]

Look pauk, you're probably typing out some long response. Not in the mood to get into a big debate over this.

If you honestly believe that, more power to you. But I only judge guys by impact and level of play, and it's no contest to me.

Have a good evening bro...

[pauk]

Fpliii... look, give me a rational, logical, factual assessment to why the hell Hakeem should be ranked higher than Lebron or Kobe at this moment? Because all that ration, logic & facts i see doesnt favor that assessment at all.... help me out here, please.... let me just know how you think, dont take this the wrong way, i am just horribly curious to why anybody would rank Hakeem over Lebron/Kobe.... anytime i questioned those guys they never could give a good answer....




PS: Forgot to answer your one question. To start a franchise i would pick Lebron over Hakeem, but probably not Kobe........ Let me explain, Kobe has the accolades with the longevity and all that backs him up, that is the main reason i have him over Hakeem all time..... but as individual players goes there is a bunch i would pick over Kobe to start a franchise with and Hakeem is one of them for sure........ Hakeem was a more productive, efficient player & more impactful individual player for a team, that is the main reason........ Lebron however has proved to be just that & more for an even longer time, an even more overall productive player & an even more impactful player, for a longer time and with also a more productive peak (which included a 2 year peak/streak of more hardware than Hakeem accumulated those 2 years).... Lebron is a go-to-player you can place on literally any team and turn them into championship contenders, immediately, i dont care what team it is.... A combination of that and the accolades (which he has more of than Hakeem) is what holds him above Hakeem all-time......

[bizil]

I think these 12 guys were such a big deal they transcended basketball:

Wilt
Russell
MJ
Magic
Bird
Barkley
Kareem
Dr. J
Shaq
Iverson
Kobe
Lebron

Now I realize all of them might not have been the best player in the world at the time. But they were ALL in the top 5 in the world at one time. And at many times, they were transcending the sport at the same time. That Dr.J-Kareem-Magic-Bird combo jumped off the Golden Era. Doc and Kareem were the living legends while Magic and Bird were the young guns who gave the league new life.

But the most impressive TO THIS DAY was the MJ-Magic-Bird trifecta. People figured Bird and Magic would be the best forward and guard ever in the NBA respectively even coming out of college. And THEY WERE RIGHT! But people didn't realize that MJ would be as great as he was! He shook shit up and became the best player on Earth. And eventually the GOAT! So him joining Bird and Magic at the top was EPIC SHIT! And later Barkley was the bad boy and rebel who became transcendant.

[pauk]

Look pauk, you're probably typing out some long response. Not in the mood to get into a big debate over this.

If you honestly believe that, more power to you. But I only judge guys by impact and level of play, and it's no contest to me.

Have a good evening bro...

There you go, thats all you needed to say.... If that is your only criteria then i understand why you would pick or rank Hakeem over Kobe....... but i still dont understand why you would pick or rank Hakeem over Lebron.... because in terms of impact and level of play i certainly think Lebron has reached higher, that we can talk about if you wish.... Dont take this the wrong way fpliii, i just love basketball discussions / sharing basketball knowledg,
When i hear an opinion i am just always keen on knowing why/figuring out how that guy thinks that leads him to that opinion, thats all..... :)

[fpliii]

I'll be very clear about this...

I only judge guys by level of play, and how long it's sustained. I completely ignore box score stats (or shit derived from box scores, like win shares, PER, etc.), and accolades. Completely, I do not consider them at all. All that matters is how much a guy is able to positively impact scoring margin (stats like with/without SRS trends, on/off, RAPM, team ORtg/DRtg, etc., coupled with reading socuting reports and my own eye test), which correlates the most with winning of anything.

Hakeem was quite frankly the better play. We don't have Synergy data for him, or RAPM, since he predates digitalized play-by-play. PHILA was kind enough to break down Hakeem:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344443

What pisses me off about your post, is this belief that Hakeem wasn't a dominant player before 92-93, 93-94, 94-95. This is completely false, he was considered a top-flight superstar, and the best center in the league, from the 85-86 season when he and Sampson showed up the Lakers in the playoffs. This is NOT revisionist history, publications from the time (Rick Barry's scouting bibles, Zander Hollander's complete guides, Street and Smith's periodicals, etc.) called him the best center, and one of the most dominant players in the league, year in and year out.

When assembling a team, I would take Hakeem over LeBron or Kobe 100/100 times (if I already have a center, I would trade him and keep Hakeem), because I feel his impact would most improve the quality of my team.

[fpliii]

There you go, thats all you needed to say.... If that is your only criteria then i understand why you would pick or rank Hakeem over Kobe....... but i still dont understand why you would pick or rank Hakeem over Lebron.... because in terms of impact and level of play i certainly think Lebron has reached higher, that we can talk about if you wish.... Dont take this the wrong way fpliii, i just love basketball discussions / sharing basketball knowledg,
When i hear an opinion i am just always keen on knowing why/figuring out how that guy thinks that leads him to that opinion, thats all..... :)
LeBron is an incredible player, but there are two sides to the court. LeBron is a great defender, but Hakeem is the modern GOAT on that end. LeBron is one of the best offensive players ever (I think peak Bird is the offensive GOAT), but Hakeem can score anywhere within the three-point line, and had an incredible skillset for a big man.

I'm not going to discuss Kobe here. I don't have a GOAT list so I don't know where I'd rank him if I did, but he's a very complete offensive player. Not a game-changing defender, but when locked in in the playoffs, definitely a positive. Best offensive player in the league from 06-08 IMO.

[Cocaine80s]

Hmmm thats weird, I see Lebron on this list.

So whats your agenda this time Kenneth?


Duncan?

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe's a ... BRICK

HOUWSE!

[pauk]

I'll be very clear about this...

I only judge guys by level of play, and how long it's sustained. I completely ignore box score stats (or shit derived from box scores, like win shares, PER, etc.), and accolades. Completely, I do not consider them at all. All that matters is how much a guy is able to positively impact scoring margin (stats like with/without SRS trends, on/off, RAPM, team ORtg/DRtg, etc., coupled with reading socuting reports and my own eye test), which correlates the most with winning of anything.

Hakeem was quite frankly the better play. We don't have Synergy data for him, or RAPM, since he predates digitalized play-by-play. PHILA was kind enough to break down Hakeem:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344443

What pisses me off about your post, is this belief that Hakeem wasn't a dominant player before 92-93, 93-94, 94-95. This is completely false, he was considered a top-flight superstar, and the best center in the league, from the 85-86 season when he and Sampson showed up the Lakers in the playoffs. This is NOT revisionist history, publications from the time (Rick Barry's scouting bibles, Zander Hollander's complete guides, Street and Smith's periodicals, etc.) called him the best center, and one of the most dominant players in the league, year in and year out.

When assembling a team, I would take Hakeem over LeBron or Kobe 100/100 times (if I already have a center, I would trade him and keep Hakeem), because I feel his impact would most improve the quality of my team.

Cool, that wasnt so hard see? More quality posts like this, less facepalm! :)

...and yes i agree with you, but like i said, its only that Hakeem vs Lebron thing, no matter what criteria you go after i honestly believe you will make a ridicilous mistake by picking Hakeem over Lebron.... but you probably think the opposite, but thats just your opinion i respect it, there is only one guy in NBA history i would start my franchise with over Lebron and that is Michael Jordan and arguably Shaquille O'Neal.... and if Oscar/Wilt could drop those numbers in todays league/era then those guys two....... we can talk about it so i can explain further why Lebron > Hakeem in any of your criterias, but we will just derail the thread? PM we can use if interested or start a thread about it.

[fpliii]

Cool, that wasnt so hard see? More quality posts like this, less facepalm! :)

...and yes i agree with you, but like i said, its only that Hakeem vs Lebron thing, no matter what criteria you go after i honestly believe you will make a ridicilous mistake by picking Hakeem over Lebron.... but you probably think the opposite, but thats just your opinion i respect it, there is only one guy in NBA history i would start my franchise with over Lebron and that is Michael Jordan and arguably Shaquille O'Neal.... and if Oscar/Wilt could drop those numbers in todays league/era then those guys two....... we can talk about it so i can explain further why Lebron > Hakeem in any of your criterias, but we will just derail the thread? PM we can use.
I used a facepalm because you used accolades when I explicitly asked you not to in the post you quoted:


So you think LeBron and Kobe played basketball at a higher level than Hakeem? Without mentioning accolades, would you honestly take either over Hakeem to start a franchise?

Christ, unquestionably the most underrated player on this site.

Wasn't trying to be hostile.

PM me if you want, but I'm pretty firmly entrenched in my position.

[pauk]

np fpliii! i get you...... was just a general message to how things usually go around here if you know what i mean.... if all posters were like you here this would be a great place.... to much trolling going on, im all for humor, but damn... you cant learn/share basketball knowledge like that.... :P

[chazzy]

you can place on literally any team and turn them into championship contenders, immediately, i dont care what team it is
Never go full pauk

[BigBoss]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362156