having the highest ppg career isnt even an all time record. its a per season record

[kennethgriffin]

A guy can come over from europe. Play one year and retire ppg leader over jordan...

And youre rewarded by playing less seasons

15 years isnt even that many. It only looks good to magic or bird cause they had broken bodies and organs

Basically jn punishes people who can play in the nba at a younger age or n older age due to having more talent

[Hizack]

I'm sure the all-time career ppg list has some sorts of minimum requirement on games played / minutes played / seasons played etc. The so-called European guy playing a season or two definitely won't make the list I'm sure.

[Mr. Jabbar]

indeed, thats why when you use ppg you compare players of similar greatness/games played, stat alone is worthless

eye test never fails

[Marchesk]

A guy can come over from europe. Play one year and retire ppg leader over jordan...

Yeah, too bad prime Spanoulis stayed in Greece ...

[KOBE143]

Agree

Career total >>> career per game and its not even close.. The reason why most people have KAJ as GOAT is because of his career total points record and his 6 rings.. After Kobe surpass MJ tonight, he will be in the GOAT conversation and easily top 3 all-time at worst..

[dh144498]

Agree

Career total >>> career per game and its not even close.. The reason why most people have KAJ as GOAT is because of his career total points record and his 6 rings.. After Kobe surpass MJ tonight, he will be in the GOAT conversation and easily top 3 all-time at worst..


where has this nigguh been? Welcome back.

:roll:

[mehyaM24]

career totals reward longevity for extenuating circumstances such as injuries. context is key for both PPG and career points - obviously.

[kennethgriffin]

career totals reward longevity for extenuating circumstances such as injuries. context is key for both PPG and career points - obviously.


If youre injured more often than not. Then its in gods hands or youre not working hard enough to stay in shape..

Kobes had every type of injury thrown at him and hes overcome them all. Work ethic and pain tolerance plays into it. Guys like tmac got hurt allot cause theyre fat lazy assholes

[DaRkJaWs]

Agree

Career total >>> career per game and its not even close.. The reason why most people have KAJ as GOAT is because of his career total points record and his 6 rings.. After Kobe surpass MJ tonight, he will be in the GOAT conversation and easily top 3 all-time at worst..
Oh, is that why Karl Malone is rated SO MUCH HIGHER than Tim Duncan?

[kennethgriffin]

Whenever people talk about all time steals / assists champ. They say stockton cause of his totals.. same for rebounding. I remember even the single season assists champion and scoring champions back in the 60s used to be season totals. Which is why wilt is always refered to have won the assist leader one year.

The media and nba colluded together when jordan showed up and all of a sudden started going off about averages cause it was their agenda.. same as why hollinger and nba invented p.e.r to help boost lebron..

[LEFT4DEAD]

A guy can come over from europe. Play one year and retire ppg leader over jordan...

And youre rewarded by playing less seasons

15 years isnt even that many. It only looks good to magic or bird cause they had broken bodies and organs

Basically jn punishes people who can play in the nba at a younger age or n older age due to having more talent
Every stat thats influenced with longevity is bullshit. Just like all those milestones that players accomplish just based on how many years they are in this league. I mean, nobody would pick; FOR EXAMPLE, a player who needs 19 seasons to score so many points like some other player in just 14 seasons.

At the end of the day, only thing that counts for individual comparison are MVP and FMVP awards. Nothing else.

[kennethgriffin]

Oh, is that why Karl Malone is rated SO MUCH HIGHER than Tim Duncan?


Resume wise duncans better. But individually malone had twice the career. Imagine if jordan never existed. And his jazz win a few titles. Malone would be far and away the goat power forward.

[SouBeachTalents]

Even if you take away ppg average, it's taken Kobe the equivalent of an entire regular season (80 starts), 5,000 more minutes, and over 300 more shot attempts to pass Jordan's all time points mark

[SouBeachTalents]

Every stat thats influenced with longevity is bullshit. Just like all those milestones that players accomplish just based on how many years they are in this league. I mean, nobody would pick; FOR EXAMPLE, a player who needs 19 seasons to score so many points like some other player in just 14 seasons.

At the end of the day, only thing that counts for individual comparison are MVP and FMVP awards. Nothing else.

Steve Nash really tainted that by having more than Shaq, Kobe, and Hakeem

[KOBE143]

where has this nigguh been? Welcome back.

:roll:
Im too busy spreading the Gospel of our Lord GodBe in the real world.. Theres only a little time left before our GodBe goes back to his kingdom and I want people to know how great he is before that happen.. Too many people are already blinded by this false god LeBronze and I really feel sorry to all them and their souls for believing his Gospel of Betanism.. Forgive them Lord Godbe, they have no idea that this fake god will never ever gonna surpass your greatness.. You are the Alpha of all Alpha have mercy on them.. :(

Im glad theres still people here who still knows me.. :cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

Even if you take away ppg average, it's taken Kobe the equivalent of an entire regular season (80 starts), 5,000 more minutes, and over 300 more shot attempts to pass Jordan's all time points mark


300 more shots isnt that many when you consider everything

Added up and kobes at 1.30 points per shot. Jordans at 1.31 points per shot

[LEFT4DEAD]

Steve Nash really tainted that by having more than Shaq, Kobe, and Hakeem
Every single stat has some exceptions, and if Nash (who btw at the time was one of the best players in the league and has deserved those MVPs) and 2-3 more players are the only ones when we are comparing based on MVPs, then I would say its a very reliable stat.

And I didnt say that only MVPs matter. When you look at those players that you mentioned, every one of them have more FMVPs than Nash, and FMVP>>>MVP.

[KOBE143]

Oh, is that why Karl Malone is rated SO MUCH HIGHER than Tim Duncan?
I said career totals + rings..

Does Karl Malone has 5 rings? Oh wait he didnt even have one.. :lol

[DaRkJaWs]

Resume wise duncans better. But individually malone had twice the career. Imagine if jordan never existed. And his jazz win a few titles. Malone would be far and away the goat power forward.
I think finals and even conference finals appearances should count almost as much as rings, that's my personal opinion and I think it's much more fair to players. If we grant that Malone's jazz teams were great largely because of his play, and listen to Michael Jordan when he said those jazz teams were "awesome", we need to boost Malone in the rankings.

But of course going to what you said, that individually Malone had twice the career, most people would disagree simply because of rings. They make all sorts of specious arguments as to why Malone wasn't actually contributing and Duncan impacted the game more, all of that sort of bullshit that they only say because of one thing: rings. Go to RealGM for example, and look at those wannabe quants come up with arbitrary analyses that cherrypicks what it is they want to show (that is, they hide their biases through quantitative analysis), and there is almost no argument you can make against them without getting banned, because they prefer numbers over history, like the fools they are (and when I call them fools I'm speaking objectively, not from emotions per say).

[Poetry]

You have to look at everything, the way you would for Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Emmitt Smith.

Look at total yards, yards per game, yards per attempt, etc.

I don't know anyone that thinks Emmitt Smith was better than Walter Payton or Barry Sanders or Jim Brown, but Emmitt has the record.

[DaRkJaWs]

You have to look at everything, the way you would for Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Emmitt Smith.

Look at total yards, yards per game, yards per attempt, etc.

I don't know anyone that thinks Emmitt Smith was better than Walter Payton or Barry Sanders or Jim Brown, but Emmitt has the record.
Go tell that to the pseudoscientists at RealGM.

[sportjames23]

Every stat thats influenced with longevity is bullshit. Just like all those milestones that players accomplish just based on how many years they are in this league. I mean, nobody would pick; FOR EXAMPLE, a player who needs 19 seasons to score so many points like some other player in just 14 seasons.

At the end of the day, only thing that counts for individual comparison are MVP and FMVP awards. Nothing else.


Aether.

[kennethgriffin]

You have to look at everything, the way you would for Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Emmitt Smith.

Look at total yards, yards per game, yards per attempt, etc.

I don't know anyone that thinks Emmitt Smith was better than Walter Payton or Barry Sanders or Jim Brown, but Emmitt has the record.


Footballs very different. Its much more of a team sport. And offensive players are very dependant on their blocking and qb

[dubeta]

People are just mad that LeBron has the 3rd highest ppg average in NBA history while not even being recognized as a 'scorer' like Kobe Durant Melo


#1 Jordan 30.1 ppg

#2 Wilt 30.1 ppg

#3 LeBron 27.5 ppg



Kobe's far below any of them


Plus LeBron scores more on 50% shooting to Kobe's 45%. So he neither has the volume or efficiency of LeBron


Damn for a pure 'scorer' Kobe's not even really elite at that and that's really what this thread is trying to conveniently hide.

[kennethgriffin]

Aether.



Its really not ether in any way shape or form. Its way harder to dominate in your 18th, 19th, 20th seasons than it is to just be drafted onto a shitty team in the 80s and be able to chuck 25 shots a game from year 1..

Its much more respectable to be forced to share the bal more than half the time

If youre not taking as many shots per game. You wont score as many ppg.

If kobe took the same shots as jordan per contest his 1.30 pps translates into 30ppg career

[kennethgriffin]

People are just mad that LeBron has the 3rd highest ppg average in NBA history while not even being recognized as a 'scorer' like Kobe Durant Melo


#1 Jordan 30.1 ppg

#2 Wilt 30.1 ppg

#3 LeBron 27.5 ppg



Kobe's far below any of them


Plus LeBron scores more on 50% shooting to Kobe's 45%. So he neither has the volume or efficiency of LeBron


Damn for a pure 'scorer' Kobe's not even really elite at that and that's really what this thread is trying to conveniently hide.

Kobes real career average is 28ppg you moron

It drops to around 26ppg due to playing behind eddie jones an nba allstar. Different situations.. which is why career totals make more sense cause sooner or later if a guy is great hes gonna earn that starting role. From then on hes judged

[Psileas]

I think titles and even conference finals appearances should count almost as much as rings, that's my personal opinion and I think it's much more fair to players. If we grant that Malone's jazz teams were great largely because of his play, and listen to Michael Jordan when he said those jazz teams were "awesome", we need to boost Malone in the rankings.

But of course going to what you said, that individually Malone had twice the career, most people would disagree simply because of rings. They make all sorts of specious arguments as to why Malone wasn't actually contributing and Duncan impacted the game more, all of that sort of bullshit that they only say because of one thing: rings. Go to RealGM for example, and look at those wannabe quants come up with arbitrary analyses that cherrypicks what it is they want to show (that is, they hide their biases through quantitative analysis), and there is almost no argument you can make against them without getting banned, because they prefer numbers over history, like the fools they are (and when I call them fools I'm speaking objectively, not from emotions per say).

What do you mean by "titles" here (as opposed to "rings")? Statistical ones?

[DaRkJaWs]

What do you mean by "titles" here (as opposed to "rings")? Statistical ones?
meant to say finals and not titles, my bad. finals appearances.

[Poetry]

Kobes real career average is 28ppg

I don't mind if view it that way. I consider those things as well when viewing a player's career.

But if you're going to do that, then you need to consider a player's collegiate years when speaking of longevity. It's only fair.

Karl Malone played 2831 minutes in college as the main guy.

In his first two years, Kobe played 3159 minutes as a role player.

Karl played those minutes. The wear and tear is real. Too often I see people on this site dismiss that reality.

[Myth]

Kobes real career average is 28ppg you moron

It drops to around 26ppg due to playing behind eddie jones an nba allstar. Different situations.. which is why career totals make more sense cause sooner or later if a guy is great hes gonna earn that starting role. From then on hes judged

Rookie LeBron would have started over Eddie if they were the same position though :confusedshrug:

Can't use Kobe's youth/inexperience against him when comparing him to LeBron who also entered out of HS.

[dubeta]

Rookie LeBron would have started over Eddie if they were the same position though :confusedshrug:

Can't use Kobe's youth/inexperience against him when comparing him to LeBron who also entered out of HS.


LeBron had a fully developed offensive skill set in high school, while kobe needed 3 years in the league just to learn how to play :applause:

[ThatCoolKid]

Its really not ether in any way shape or form. Its way harder to dominate in your 18th, 19th, 20th seasons than it is to just be drafted onto a shitty team in the 80s and be able to chuck 25 shots a game from year 1..

Its much more respectable to be forced to share the bal more than half the time

If youre not taking as many shots per game. You wont score as many ppg.

If kobe took the same shots as jordan per contest his 1.30 pps translates into 30ppg career

Lol, because if Brandan Wright would be the GOAT if he took more shots, am I right? Inferior players take less shots because they can't get the shots they want at a respectable frequency.

[Real Men Wear Green]

A guy can come over from europe. Play one year and retire ppg leader over jordan...

And youre rewarded by playing less seasons

15 years isnt even that many. It only looks good to magic or bird cause they had broken bodies and organs

Basically jn punishes people who can play in the nba at a younger age or n older age due to having more talent
First of all, the record is "per game," not per season as you so idiotically assert. PPG= Points Per Game. Second, 15 seasons is 3 times the average length of an NBA career. Third, everything you post is shit.

[Papaya Petee]

Kobes real career average is 28ppg you moron

It drops to around 26ppg due to playing behind eddie jones an nba allstar. Different situations.. which is why career totals make more sense cause sooner or later if a guy is great hes gonna earn that starting role. From then on hes judged

No, no it's not, and don't call anyone a moron if you're making moronic statements.

Nobody gives a rats ass that Kobe wasn't good enough to start and and make impact or score right away.

That's like saying if you remove LeBron and Wades worst 3 scoring seasons for whatever dumb reason, theyre at 29 and 27 PPG respectively, on much better efficiency.

[dh144498]

No, no it's not, and don't call anyone a moron if you're making moronic statements.

Nobody gives a rats ass that Kobe wasn't good enough to start and and make impact or score right away.

That's like saying if you remove LeBron and Wades worst 3 scoring seasons for whatever dumb reason, theyre at 29 and 27 PPG respectively, on much better efficiency.

but they were starters and the focal point of the team/offense, where as Kobe was a spot up shooter and forced to take bail out shots.

[kennethgriffin]

Rookie LeBron would have started over Eddie if they were the same position though :confusedshrug:

Can't use Kobe's youth/inexperience against him when comparing him to LeBron who also entered out of HS.


Youre forgetting that this is 1997 .. not 2004.. and at the time it wasnt ideal for a coach on a team competing for titles to bench a prime allstar for an unproven 18 year old rookie. No matter how good they seem

Plus del harris ws well known for stunting young players growth and being stubborn. If it wasnt for guys like kobe and garnett.. lebron doesnt even end up going #1 in the 2003 draft. And he doesnt start over eddie jones.. whom at the time was an elite wing/defender/allstar doing layups from the god damn 3 point line. Before kobe got there. Eddie WAS their kobe

[Rooster]

Youre forgetting that this is 1997 .. not 2004.. and at the time it wasnt ideal for a coach on a team competing for titles to bench a prime allstar for an unproven 18 year old rookie. No matter how good they seem

Plus del harris ws well known for stunting young players growth and being stubborn. If it wasnt for guys like kobe and garnett.. lebron doesnt even end up going #1 in the 2003 draft. And he doesnt start over eddie jones.. whom at the time was an elite wing/defender/allstar doing layups from the god damn 3 point line. Before kobe got there. Eddie WAS their kobe

This.

The reason Kobe was not considered a top 5 draft pick at that time was because no swingmen has ever proved himsef straight outta high school. And watching Eddie Jones with the Lakers during those times, he was so promising that you probably doubt Kobe can outplay him unless you watch their practice.

[sportjames23]

First of all, the record is "per game," not per season as you so idiotically assert. PPG= Points Per Game. Second, 15 seasons is 3 times the average length of an NBA career. Third, everything you post is shit.


Damn. :oldlol:

[Myth]

Youre forgetting that this is 1997 .. not 2004.. and at the time it wasnt ideal for a coach on a team competing for titles to bench a prime allstar for an unproven 18 year old rookie. No matter how good they seem

Plus del harris ws well known for stunting young players growth and being stubborn. If it wasnt for guys like kobe and garnett.. lebron doesnt even end up going #1 in the 2003 draft. And he doesnt start over eddie jones.. whom at the time was an elite wing/defender/allstar doing layups from the god damn 3 point line. Before kobe got there. Eddie WAS their kobe

You are kidding yourself if you believe Del Harris wouldn't have started rookie and sophomore LeBron.

[Papaya Petee]

but they were starters and the focal point of the team/offense, where as Kobe was a spot up shooter and forced to take bail out shots.
Because Kobe wasn't good enough right from the start, therefore his PPG average suffers, yet it still matters.

We don't take out a players 3 worst seasons then judge his numbers, then try to pass them as the actual averages. It just doesn't work like that.

[9erempiree]

Obviously Kobe was good enough to have the Lakers let go of Eddie.

[Rooster]

You are kidding yourself if you believe Del Harris wouldn't have started rookie and sophomore LeBron.

Del Harris already knew how good was Kobe but he was a rookie so he has to go with the food chain. Van Exel was an all star who need the ball to be effective. Shaq get most of the touches no question and Jones was the better fit because he can play without the ball. Unless you can see the future, you can't possibly say Lebron should start over Eddie Jones.

[Myth]

Del Harris already knew how good was Kobe but he was a rookie so he has to go with the food chain. Van Exel was an all star who need the ball to be effective. Shaq get most of the touches no question and Jones was the better fit because he can play without the ball. Unless you can see the future, you can't possibly say Lebron should start over Eddie Jones.

Rookie LeBron was obviously better than rookie Kobe. That is why is took Kobe 4 years (and 2nd year as a full time starter) to surpass the production of rookie LeBron.

[Rooster]

Because Kobe wasn't good enough right from the start, therefore his PPG average suffers, yet it still matters.

We don't take out a players 3 worst seasons then judge his numbers, then try to pass them as the actual averages. It just doesn't work like that.

He was good enough to start if he was on some other team but he has an all star Guard in front of him. He destroyed Jerry Stackhouse when he was still in high school.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The fairest way to debate who is the better scorer between any two players is to examine their peaks and how long they remained a good or great player. The more NCAA ball a player skipped the more total points he'll have in the NBA. Conversely, the more games he plays in the NBA before his peak the lower the career ppg.

[Rooster]

Rookie LeBron was obviously better than rookie Kobe. That is why is took Kobe 4 years (and 2nd year as a full time starter) to surpass the production of rookie LeBron.

Kobe was playing behind an all star guard. Like I said Lebron would have been the same. He would not start over Eddie Jones if you were watching the Lakers back in the days especially not in his rookie year.

[Myth]

Kobe was playing behind an all star guard. Like I said Lebron would have been the same. He would not start over Eddie Jones if you were watching the Lakers back in the days especially not in his rookie year.

Did you just gloss over my post that you quoted? 3rd year Kobe was no longer playing behind an all-star guard (Jones was traded) and played more minutes per game on the Lakers than any other player (38mpg) and yet still was not as productive as straight out of high school, rookie LeBron James. The reasons Kobe didn't start in his 1st two years was because he simply wasn't good enough to start over Eddie yet.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Kobe was playing behind an all star guard. Like I said Lebron would have been the same. He would not start over Eddie Jones if you were watching the Lakers back in the days especially not in his rookie year.If we assume that the Laker coaching staff aren't just going to discriminate against an HS rookie no matter what and it's all about merit James is either a high-minute sixth man or the starting small forward. Let's not forget that James is a 3, not a 2. I'm not sure who LA started at SF Bryant's rookie year but there's no way he was better than James. If we are to artificially lock James into the SG position I would agree that a team with championship goals isn't going to stumble through a high schooler's growing pains but I don't see how they would lock him into that position when he's 6'9 230+ as a rookie and just too good of a player not to get minutes.

[Jailblazers7]

100% chance that rookie Lebron starts at the 3 next to Eddie Jones on that Lakers team. And if Eddie Jones was in Lebron's way for PT? They'd probably trade him for an upgrade somewhere else so Lebron could start from day 1.

[Rooster]

Did you just gloss over my post that you quoted? 3rd year Kobe was no longer playing behind an all-star guard (Jones was traded) and played more minutes per game on the Lakers than any other player (38mpg) and yet still was not as productive as straight out of high school, rookie LeBron James. The reasons Kobe didn't start in his 1st two years was because he simply wasn't good enough to start over Eddie yet.

Lebron has better numbers because he has the greenlight on awful teams while Kobe is playing on a championship team. But if Lebron came to the Lakers like the way Kobe does, he will not start over Eddie Jones and he will not post those numbers either. He might win more rings later on because he can probably get along easier with Shaq but he will not be the primary option.

[Myth]

If we assume that the Laker coaching staff aren't just going to discriminate against an HS rookie no matter what and it's all about merit James is either a high-minute sixth man or the starting small forward. Let's not forget that James is a 3, not a 2. I'm not sure who LA started at SF Bryant's rookie year but there's no way he was better than James. If we are to artificially lock James into the SG position I would agree that a team with championship goals isn't going to stumble through a high schooler's growing pains but I don't see how they would lock him into that position when he's 6'9 230+ as a rookie and just too good of a player not to get minutes.

This part of the conversation started with the premise that LeBron was competing with minutes with a hypothetical Eddie Jones equivalent that played SF.

[Myth]

Lebron has better numbers because he has the greenlight on awful teams while Kobe is playing on a championship team. But if Lebron came to the Lakers like the way Kobe does, he will not start over Eddie Jones and he will not post those numbers either. He might win more rings later on because he can probably get along easier with Shaq but he will not be the primary option.

Do you honestly believe rookie Kobe was as good as rookie LeBron? The roles would change, of course, but there was also a drastic difference in their abilities at that time. It doesn't matter what team or what era, rookie LeBron would never have been limited to 15.5mpg.

[Rooster]

If we assume that the Laker coaching staff aren't just going to discriminate against an HS rookie no matter what and it's all about merit James is either a high-minute sixth man or the starting small forward. Let's not forget that James is a 3, not a 2. I'm not sure who LA started at SF Bryant's rookie year but there's no way he was better than James. If we are to artificially lock James into the SG position I would agree that a team with championship goals isn't going to stumble through a high schooler's growing pains but I don't see how they would lock him into that position when he's 6'9 230+ as a rookie and just too good of a player not to get minutes.

Yes I agree with that if we are talking about SF position but not on 2 guard position. Cedric Ceballos was the starter on SF until he went on vacation and Horry after that. Not not sure if Lakers would give Lebron the starting gig because Ceballos was having all Star year before Shaq came over and Horry was a proven player.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't see what the debate. The career ppg record holder is just that. Granted, there has to be some kind of a minimum number of games, but if this is a jab at MJ, well, the man played 15 seasons.


Now, if you want to discuss who the greatest SCORER was...well, the RECORD BOOK has his name plastered all over it.

[Rooster]

Do you honestly believe rookie Kobe was as good as rookie LeBron? The roles would change, of course, but there was also a drastic difference in their abilities at that time. It doesn't matter what team or what era, rookie LeBron would never have been limited to 15.5mpg.

If Lebron was pick 13th on a championship team and played behind Eddie Jones then 15 minutes is reasonable. Lebron game does not fit well with the Lakers pieces. First Shaq will get most of the touches and Van Exel need the ball. He has to play well off the ball like Eddie Jones to be a good fit.

Well Kobe does not get the benefit of the doubt because he did start his career like Lebron. He has to sit behind all those All stars and pay his due in a championship team.

[Rooster]

I don't see what the debate. The career ppg record holder is just that. Granted, there has to be some kind of a minimum number of games, but if this is a jab at MJ, well, the man played 15 seasons.


Now, if you want to discuss who the greatest SCORER was...well, the RECORD BOOK has his name plastered all over it.

Are you talking about when it mattered:no:

[LAZERUSS]

Are you talking about when it mattered:no:

I'm talking about entire seasons, including the post-seasons.

BTW, Chamberlain was generally at his greatest, when it mattered the most.

He averaged 31.1 ppg, 26.3 rpg, and on a .540 FG% (in post-season leagues that shot about .430 in that same span)...in his 23 MUST WIN post-season games. Which ranks just behind MJ's 31.3 ppg, and Lebron's 31.9 career averages in "must-win" games. Oh, and he is the only GOAT candidate to ever have even one 50+ point game in a "must-win" game, and he did it THREE times.

Incidently, his 65-66 Sixers needed to win their last 11 straight games to pass Boston for the best record on the last day of the season. 32.6 ppg on a .570 FG% in those 11 games (in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .433.)

[Cali Syndicate]

300 more shots isnt that many when you consider everything

Added up and kobes at 1.30 points per shot. Jordans at 1.31 points per shot

And That stat falls to .971 per fga for kobe to 1.017 for jordan when points from fts are removed, which means kobe, a jump shooter, gets to line on a higher rate than MJ, a slasher.

[DonDadda59]

1. Michael Jordan 30.12
2. Wilt Chamberlain 30.07
3. LeBron James 27.45
4. Elgin Baylor 27.36
5. Kevin Durant 27.35
6. Jerry West 27.03
7. Allen Iverson 26.66
8. Bob Pettit 26.36
9. George Gervin 26.18
10. Oscar Robertson 25.68

Look at all those random Euros who only played one season in the NBA. PPG means literally less than nothing. Karl Malone>>Kobe as a scorer. :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

If Lebron was pick 13th on a championship team and played behind Eddie Jones then 15 minutes is reasonable. Lebron game does not fit well with the Lakers pieces. First Shaq will get most of the touches and Van Exel need the ball. He has to play well off the ball like Eddie Jones to be a good fit.

Well Kobe does not get the benefit of the doubt because he did start his career like Lebron. He has to sit behind all those All stars and pay his due in a championship team.

And why would LeBron, the perhaps most hyped prospect ever, be drafted at 13?

Also, more Style excuses... plus, what championship team?

[DonDadda59]

Bean stans trying their absolute hardest to convince people this is anything more than the 'I played much longer than I should've' accomplishment. :lol

But at least you get to enjoy seeing Bean AKA 38%be play with the Charmin Ultra Soft All Stars in a quest to win 20 games this season. :applause:

[STATUTORY]

Bean stans trying their absolute hardest to convince people this is anything more than the 'I played much longer than I should've' accomplishment. :lol

But at least you get to enjoy seeing Bean AKA 38%be play with the Charmin Ultra Soft All Stars in a quest to win 20 games this season. :applause:

:roll: :roll: still better than MJ in that wizard jersey doe, dude was so desperate to cling to attention he had to create 3 I quit retirement press conferences before fading into obscurity

Kobe's accomplishment is just a testament to his dedication

take Kobe at age 18 or MJ when he finished UNC, who would you draft? with kobe you are guaranteed 2 decades of sustained excellence. With MJ you get a degenerate gambler and baseball dilletante that will be in and out of your team for about 15 years. I take Kobe anyday

[SouBeachTalents]

:roll: :roll: still better than MJ in that wizard jersey doe, dude was so desperate to cling to attention he had to create 3 I quit retirement press conferences before fading into obscurity

Kobe's accomplishment is just a testament to his dedication

take Kobe at age 18 or MJ when he finished UNC, who would you draft? with kobe you are guaranteed 2 decades of sustained excellence. With MJ you get a degenerate gambler and baseball dilletante that will be in and out of your team for about 15 years. I take Kobe anyday

Jordan easily

[Paul George 24]

Agree

Career total >>> career per game and its not even close.. The reason why most people have KAJ as GOAT is because of his career total points record and his 6 rings.. After Kobe surpass MJ tonight, he will be in the GOAT conversation and easily top 3 all-time at worst..

jordan in 13 years >>>>>>>>>>>>> kobe in 17 years and it is not even close

[DonDadda59]

:roll: :roll: still better than MJ in that wizard jersey doe, dude was so desperate to cling to attention he had to create 3 I quit retirement press conferences before fading into obscurity

Even a broken down 38-40 year old Jordan managed to shoot better than 38%... and the Wizards were much better with him than without him. This season is just another reminder of how utterly useless Bean is to a basketball team that doesn't have an elite big man.


Kobe's accomplishment is just a testament to his dedication

Karl Malone > Kobe.


take Kobe at age 18 or MJ when he finished UNC, who would you draft?

What? Jordan easily... what scout in their right mind would take a guy who would be a 7 PPG bench scrub over the reigning National Player of the year who would be an instant MVP/best player in the league candidate? :wtf:

[Kblaze8855]

Jerome Kersey was 35 and Eddie Jones was a 12ppg player in 1996. No way Lebron isnt starting on that team.

Eddie established his borderline star status down the line. Coming into 96/97? There is no reason to put him over Lebron and even if you did you wouldnt put Kersey over him. Eddie put up 17/4 on 44% shooting in 97. He was hardly someone you bench a player on a borderline HOF level on day one for as a 12ppg guy the year before. Lebron was having 30/17/7 games 2 weeks into his career. Lebron was bigger than Kobe ever was...in his rookie season. Kobe came in a skinny kid who had talent.

Lebron came in bigger than a lot of power forwards. He was 254 pounds at the 04 Olympics. Which means before the end of his rookie season...he was the same weight or bigger than rookie Blake Griffin, Greg Monroe, Vlade divac, Al Horford, and hundreds of other NBA bigmen. Not estimates...im talking recorded combine weight. He was 246 at 18 before he played a game.

Rookie Lebron had 72 pounds on rookie Kobe.

Kobe had to grow into an NBA body. Lebron was physically NBA ready in high school.

Kobe wasnt ready to star in the NBA at 18. He was talented enough...he lacked the physicality in a lot of ways.

Lebron had nothing to justify not starting from day one.

Kobe simply wasnt as good as most starters. If Kobe came in...as 99 or 2000 Kobe size/ability wise...he wouldnt have sat as a rookie.

Lebron came in as good as Kobe was after 2\3 years. He was just given more physical tools to work with early.

[T_L_P]

ITT: kenneth getting buried.

[La Frescobaldi]

Footballs very different. Its much more of a team sport. And offensive players are very dependant on their blocking and qb


This right here is exactly the very worst and most dangerous kind of basketball thinking there is.

Teamwork is infinitely more important in basketball than it could ever be in football.

This is precisely ballhoggery at its perfect nadir and this view of basketball immediately, inevitably, and irreversibly causes teams like the Los Angeles Lakers to look like the New York Knicks.