you can't rank Duncan ahead of Kobe based on their H2H results

[STATUTORY]

Kobe's done duncan dirty more often than that dude that allegedl smashed Duncan's wife

[navy]

H2H records?


What's Lebron's H2H record vs Kobe?

[Magic 32]

H2H records?


What's Lebron's H2H record vs Kobe?

Playoffs.

4-2

Old man Duncan?

2-1 against prime Lebron :roll: :roll: :roll:

[rlsmooth775]

H2H records?


What's Lebron's H2H record vs Kobe?

:lebronamazed:

[oarabbus]

H2H records?


What's Lebron's H2H record vs Kobe?


http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Kevin-Garnett-Reaction-at-2013-Dunk-Contest.gif

[STATUTORY]

H2H records?


What's Lebron's H2H record vs Kobe?

we talking about playoff H2H record

oh u focusing on those christmas day exhibition games? :roll: :roll:

[rlsmooth775]

OP explain yourself

[navy]

we talking about playoff H2H record

oh u focusing on those christmas day exhibition games? :roll: :roll:
You know damn well you made this as a response to Kobe's regular season win tonight.

[Nowitness]

my boy dirk has never lost a game to kobe in the playoffs.

thanks for letting us all know dirk >>
>
kobe

[Magic 32]

my boy dirk has never lost a game to kobe in the playoffs.

thanks for letting us all know dirk >>
>
kobe


http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/706328/x2011-april-25-0-13-5.jpg.pagespeed.ic.viboodxfs_.jpg

[MastaKilla]

You know damn well you made this as a response to Kobe's regular season win tonight.

why would he make this thread in response to a regular season win when Duncan has more wins H2H in the regular season :facepalm :facepalm

this is obviously about the playoffs, you got too eager to hate and now look stupid..

[DCL]

you forgot shaq was in the equation

[navy]

why would he make this thread in response to a regular season win when Duncan has more wins H2H in the regular season :facepalm :facepalm

this is obviously about the playoffs, you got too eager to hate and now look stupid..
That's like me saying Nash > Kobe because of their H2H in the playoffs.

Then again looking at their MVP count, it makes sense.

[MastaKilla]

That's like me saying Nash > Kobe because of their H2H in the playoffs.

Then again looking at their MVP count, it makes sense.

change the subject now but the point stands that you made yourself look like an idiot

[MastaKilla]

What's Lebron's H2H record vs Kobe?

for the purpose of this thread, 0-0 dumb ass

[navy]

change the subject now but the point stands that you made yourself look like an idiot
The subject is h2h records having meanings. They dont.

[MastaKilla]

The subject is h2h records having meanings. They dont.

you thought you were so slick with that lebron comment :roll: :roll:

[konex]

It's really crazy. Stats aren't close and Kobe has done much more with less including thumping Duncan in the playoffs several times. Big man bias at work

[STATUTORY]

The subject is h2h records having meanings. They dont.

when you are both all time greats whose prime overlap significantly, yea the kinda do

[BuffaloBill]

It's really crazy. Stats aren't close and Kobe has done much more with less including thumping Duncan in the playoffs several times. Big man bias at work



:biggums:

[MastaKilla]

:biggums:

2008-2012 Kobe had less

[Anaximandro1]

:oldlol:

Regular Season H2H (W-L)


Duncan 28 - 21

Kobe 21 - 28

Playoffs ?? ... You can't beat a lottery team (2005, 2014, 2015) or first-round fodder (2006, 2007)


BTW, Duncan vs Lakers (W-L)

(Regular Season + Playoffs)

Duncan 48 - 44

Lakers 44 - 48

[T_L_P]

It's really crazy. Stats aren't close and Kobe has done much more with less including thumping Duncan in the playoffs several times. Big man bias at work

You made a thread about this and you got shut down.

'Duncan has better stats. If you want to do the simple addition of their raw stats (PPG + RPG + APG + SPG + BPG - TOV), Kobe comes out with 34.6 and Duncan comes out with 36.5

Then Duncan is favoured by all advances metrics, and he has better shooting numbers, whilst playing astronomically better defense'

Stop making things up.

[BuffaloBill]

2008-2012 Kobe had less



1999-2003 Duncan had less. What is your point?

[STATUTORY]

You made a thread about this and you got shut down.

'Duncan has better stats. If you want to do the simple addition of their raw stats (PPG + RPG + APG + SPG + BPG - TOV), Kobe comes out with 34.6 and Duncan comes out with 36.5

Then Duncan is favoured by all advances metrics, and he has better shooting numbers, whilst playing astronomically better defense'

Stop making things up.

that might be the dumbest equation I seen

and comparing advance stats across position is idiotic

[MastaKilla]

:oldlol:

Regular Season H2H (W-L)


Playoffs ?? ... You can't beat a lottery team (2005, 2014, 2015) or first-round fodder (2006, 2007)


BTW, Duncan vs Lakers (W-L)

nothing can change the face that when they meet in the playoffs Kobe has owned the Spurs :lol :lol

[T_L_P]

that might be the dumbest equation I seen

and comparing advance stats across position is idiotic

So, how do you figure Kobe's stats are better?

[MastaKilla]

1999-2003 Duncan had less. What is your point?

Duncan has consistently had better teams thats the point. 05,06,07,08,09 arguably 2010. 11,12,13,14,15...

[T_L_P]

Duncan has consistently had better teams thats the point. 05,06,07,08,09 arguably 2010. 11,12,13,14,15...

2003 is definitely weaker than any Kobe championship team.

That's public knowledge.

[STATUTORY]

So, how do you figure Kobe's stats are better?
value over second best replacement option at their position

the dropoff is much steeper at SG than at PF when you consider the duration of the career

the marginal value Kobe has provided to lakers is much greater and frankly it aint even close

[T_L_P]

value over second best replacement option at their position

the dropoff is much steeper at SG than at PF when you consider the duration of the career

the marginal value Kobe has provided to lakers is much greater and frankly it aint even close

Can you post the numbers?

[MastaKilla]

Can you post the numbers?

12 wins and 18 losses

Duncans numbers against Kobe in the playoffs

#numbers

[T_L_P]

12 wins and 18 losses

Duncans numbers against Kobe in the playoffs

#numbers

Above poster:

Dirk

4 wins and 0 losses

Kobe

0 wins and 4 losses


:roll:

You love picking and choosing what to reply to because you're left without a comeback

[MastaKilla]

Above poster:

Dirk-Kobe

4 wins and 0 losses

:roll:

30 game sample size including both of their primes vs 4 game sample size

:applause: :applause:

[STATUTORY]

Above poster:

Dirk

4 wins and 0 losses

Kobe

0 wins and 4 losses


:roll:

4 game sample size from the end of Kobe's prime

n99a u flailing

[T_L_P]

4 game sample size from the end of Kobe's prime

n99a u flailing

Can you post those value over replacement numbers? I want to see what you're talking about.

[STATUTORY]

Can you post those value over replacement numbers? I want to see what you're talking about.
Kobe - 1
Tim Duncan - 2

source: ocular examination

[oarabbus]

KD > Kobe according to OP logic

[T_L_P]

Kobe - 1
Tim Duncan - 2

source: ocular examination

He saw the numbers and realised they don't help his case at all.

It took one post to expose your lies.

Duncan's stats > Kobe's, and the latter is a known stat-padder. :facepalm

[MastaKilla]

KD > Kobe according to OP logic


OP is using a 30 game sample size that includes both players primes

haters using 4-10 game sample sizes on the latter end of Kobe's career

REACH FOR THE SKY

[STATUTORY]

He saw the numbers and realised they don't help his case at all.

It took one post to expose your lies.

Duncan's stats > Kobe's, and the latter is a known stat-padder. :facepalm

u grasping at straws, i clearly made my case. The difference between Kobe and the next best SG is much greater than Duncan and the next best PF. I'm not gonna bother go log on to basketballreference.com and pull up player stats for u, i ain't ur pops

[BuffaloBill]

Kobe - 1
Tim Duncan - 2

source: ocular examination



What is that? Their number of MVPs?

[TOUCH MY BODY]

Both are living legends :bowdown:

[T_L_P]

u grasping at straws, i clearly made my case. The difference between Kobe and the next best SG is much greater than Duncan and the next best PF. I'm not gonna bother go log on to basketballreference.com and pull up player stats for u, i ain't ur pops

According to BBallReference, Kobe's VORP is 69.9 in 1267 games. Duncan's is 79.0 in 1273 games.

So there's another stat Duncan beats Kobe in, to go along with the raw stats and every other advanced stat out there.

Too easy.

[Heavincent]

That's like me saying Nash > Kobe because of their H2H in the playoffs.

Then again looking at their MVP count, it makes sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyCysXZnahk

[STATUTORY]

According to BBallReference, Kobe's VORP is 69.9 in 1267 games. Duncan's is 79.0 in 1273 games.

So there's another stat Duncan beats Kobe in, to go along with the raw stats and every other advanced stat out there.

Too easy.

value over replacement player considers the average SG and the average PF which is ridiculous comparison consider this is a salary capped league and both Kobe and Duncan use up significant portion of the cap, the only sensible comparison is to the next max level player at their position

if you gonna post stats, at least know what they mean

[oarabbus]

value over replacement player considers the average SG and the average PF which is ridiculous comparison consider this is a salary capped league and both Kobe and Duncan use up significant portion of the cap, the only sensible comparison is to the next max level player at their position

if you gonna post stats, at least know what they mean


Value over replacement comes from baseball and doesn't adapt well, it's poorly-defined in basketball. You know that, right?

[STATUTORY]

Value over replacement comes from baseball and doesn't adapt well, it's poorly-defined in basketball. You know that, right?
that's why i didn't post it, because it's so problematic.

but TLP brought it up like it meant something :roll:

[T_L_P]

that's why i didn't post it, because it's so problematic.

but TLP brought it up like it meant something :roll:

So.....how is Kobe better statistically than Duncan?

Raw stats don't work, advanced stats don't work, VORP doesn't work because of salary cap restrictions.

It seems like you're stalling until you find something that sides with Kobe...you'll be waiting a long time.

So let's just end it here: Duncan is statistically better than Kobe. Good day :cheers:

[Heavincent]

It's true that Kobe is a Spurs killer.

Look at the playoff series in 01, 04, and 08. Kobe completely dismantled them. It was ****ing destruction.

[STATUTORY]

So.....how is Kobe better statistically than Duncan?

Raw stats don't work, advanced stats don't work, VORP doesn't work because of salary cap restrictions.

It seems like you're stalling until you find something that sides with Kobe...you'll be waiting a long time.

So let's just end it here: Duncan is statistically better than Kobe. Good day :cheers:

I told u how kobe is better statistically

not stalling at all, i'm not gonna go and compute two numbers for you to look at. it's a waste of time

[Heavincent]

Kobe leads a comeback in game 5 of the 08 WCF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GpQBkY_veQ

Damn...completely annihilated the defending champs.

[T_L_P]

I told u how kobe is better statistically

not stalling at all, i'm not gonna go and compute two numbers for you to look at. it's a waste of time

No, you didn't. :roll:

This guy is literally just making stuff up. Says value over second best player at his position is what proves statistically superiority, and he doesn't even have the numbers to back his case. In the time he spent saying he wasn't gonna waste his time gathering them, he very easily could have.

Duncan is statistically better than Kobe.

:oldlol:

[Anaximandro1]

:lol

Regular Season (W)


Duncan 28 - Kobe 21

LeBron 13 - Kobe 6

------------------

Duncan + Bron 41 - Kobe 27


Playoffs ??? Spurs can't beat a lottery team (2005, 2014, 2015) or first-round fodder (2006, 2007) ... Kobe has never won a playoff series without Shaq/Gasol.

In fact, Kobe is 1-3 against Nash/Dirk in the playoffs :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Head to Head has to be the single dumbest thing ever...made possibly worse in this instance because the guys don't even play remotely the same position.

38 year old Duncan is better than 36 year old Kobe....and it's actually not close. Duncan has been a monster this year on defense...and is still capable of great offensive/rebounding.

15/11/3 and elite interior defense....just destroys what Kobe had done to date this season.

[BuffaloBill]

Head to Head has to be the single dumbest thing ever...made possibly worse in this instance because the guys don't even play remotely the same position.

38 year old Duncan is better than 36 year old Kobe....and it's actually not close. Duncan has been a monster this year on defense...and is still capable of great offensive/rebounding.

15/11/3 and elite interior defense....just destroys what Kobe had done to date this season.



Let the Kobe stans have this one. It's the only thing they have left to cling to.

[K Xerxes]

that might be the dumbest equation I seen

and comparing advance stats across position is idiotic

And comparing H2H across positions isn't?

[MP.Trey]

Good thing nobody ranks players based off H2H matchups.

[HOoopCityJones]

Head to Head has to be the single dumbest thing ever...made possibly worse in this instance because the guys don't even play remotely the same position.

38 year old Duncan is better than 36 year old Kobe....and it's actually not close. Duncan has been a monster this year on defense...and is still capable of great offensive/rebounding.

15/11/3 and elite interior defense....just destroys what Kobe had done to date this season.


:roll:


Thanks for the laugh.

[T_L_P]

:roll:


Thanks for the laugh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=duncati01&y2=2015&p2=bryanko01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

That's the statistical comparison. Duncan wins.

Tim's been mediocre on offense and elite on defense.

Kobe has been horrible on defense and average on offense at best (he shoots 39%, the Lakers' offense is better when he's off the floor).

[HOoopCityJones]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=duncati01&y2=2015&p2=bryanko01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

That's the statistical comparison. Duncan wins.

Tim's been mediocre on offense and elite on defense.

Kobe has been horrible on defense and average on offense at best (he shoots 39%, the Lakers' offense is better when he's off the floor).

Coming off of two major injuries. It's amazing what Kobe's been able to do right now on the offensive end, and he's silently putting the haters to shame with his decent assist numbers.

What's Tim's excuse for missing layups and putbacks? Toughest shot he made in his life was against us during the playoffs in 04. Oh yea, and keep on propping up those hollow defensive accomplishments when the Bigs of this Era are the least skilled offensive players. Best players he guards offensively are D.Cousins and Al Jefferson. :roll:

Kobe? Still competing with the best talent in the league, on the perimeter.

Your precious numbers don't tell the full story , they never do.

Either way, only number you need to remember is the box score from tonight, bitch. Swaggy torched your asses.

[Magic 32]

it boils down to this... 4-2

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IvGozZ4TQvU/U4R1uv284VI/AAAAAAAACWo/75gN7Y_XjVo/s1600/Kobe+Bryant+WCF+2001.jpg

https://i1.ytimg.com/vi/5bNeQkcjLJg/hqdefault.jpg

http://img.theepochtimes.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2014/05/LakersSpurs50854227-676x450.jpg

http://images.theage.com.au/ftage/ffximage/2008/05/30/bryant_kobe_narrowweb__300x381,0.jpg

[SwayDizzle]

it boils down to this... 4-2

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IvGozZ4TQvU/U4R1uv284VI/AAAAAAAACWo/75gN7Y_XjVo/s1600/Kobe+Bryant+WCF+2001.jpg
bran stans would cvm to these stats

[K Xerxes]

Coming off of two major injuries. It's amazing what Kobe's been able to do right now on the offensive end, and he's silently putting the haters to shame with his decent assist numbers.

What's Tim's excuse for missing layups and putbacks? Toughest shot he made in his life was against us during the playoffs in 04. Oh yea, and keep on propping up those hollow defensive accomplishments when the Bigs of this Era are the least skilled offensive players. Best players he guards offensively are D.Cousins and Al Jefferson. :roll:

Kobe? Still competing with the best talent in the league, on the perimeter.

Your precious numbers don't tell the full story , they never do.

Either way, only number you need to remember is the box score from tonight, bitch. Swaggy torched your asses.

25ppg on 39% shooting. Leading his team to a 7-16 record. Choked yesterday until Nick Young saved the game. Give it up, your god has become nothing more than a chucking has been loser, while Timmy is putting up solid numbers at the age of 38, elite interior defense and contending for another title to put this silly argument beyond refute.

Same number of rings, More rings as the leader, more FMVPs, more MVPs, more dominance. Duncan >>> Kobe.

[T_L_P]

Coming off of two major injuries. It's amazing what Kobe's been able to do right now on the offensive end, and he's silently putting the haters to shame with his decent assist numbers.

What's Tim's excuse for missing layups and putbacks? Toughest shot he made in his life was against us during the playoffs in 04. Oh yea, and keep on propping up those hollow defensive accomplishments when the Bigs of this Era are the least skilled offensive players. Best players he guards offensively are D.Cousins and Al Jefferson. :roll:

Kobe? Still competing with the best talent in the league, on the perimeter.

Your precious numbers don't tell the full story , they never do.

Either way, only number you need to remember is the box score from tonight, bitch. Swaggy torched your asses.

'Coming off two major injuries'. I'm not exactly sure what that means in the comparison. Are you saying if a player is producing less on the floor than another, but he was injured the prior season, that he's actually the better player? If so: :facepalm:

Again, I don't exactly get what you mean with the layups and putbacks. Aren't we talking about the two players this season? Again :facepalm

Duncan is anchoring a defense. Man-to-man defense is only half the game. And just an FYI: the PF spot is the strongest in the league right now (along with PG). Whilst the SG spot is by far the weakest. The Spurs are currently the 2nd ranked defense without their second best defensive player, largely because Duncan has been so strong on that end (meanwhile Kobe can't even defend a spot up shooter).

Raw, advanced, metrics, eye test. Duncan is the better player right now. A poor man's Iverson (what Kobe is right now) does not impact the game more than a defensive anchor/true team leader does. Can you explain why LA's offense is better when Kobe sits on the bench?