Rank these 3 championship second option SG's: '95 Drexler, '00 Kobe, '12 Wade

[SouBeachTalents]

These three imo have a lot in common, the only real difference being Kobe was 21 while Wade & Drexler were 30 & 32 respectively. All 3 had GOAT level teammates at the peak of their powers, all finished with fairly similar numbers, and all 3 ended the season with similar accolades, with each finishing in the 10-15 range for MVP voting, while earning an All-NBA selection as well.

'95 Drexler: All-NBA 3rd Team, 14th in MVP voting
RS: 21, 7, 4 on 51%
PS: 21, 7, 5 on 48%

'00 Kobe: All-NBA 2nd Team, Defensive 1st Team, 12th in MVP voting
RS: 23, 6, 5 on 47%
PS: 21, 5, 4 on 44%

'12 Wade: All-NBA 3rd team, 10th in MVP voting
RS: 22, 5, 5 on 50%
PS: 23, 5, 4 on 46%

How would you rank these 3?

[dubeta]

Drexler






Kobe










































Wade

[ArbitraryWater]

Damn near equals tbh.. But Drexler was alot more efficient in the playoffs than KB. Also didn't miss 2 games in the finals.

But still, it's like a 3-way tie imo. Would love to see some argumenst for each guy... and not the usual basics, we can see they're similar based on that.

Their performance in the conference finals and finals would likely be the tiebreaker...

Based on that... again, like a draw lol.

All had their best series' the previous 2 rounds.

Perhaps Wade since he had an ATG 3-game stretch to help turn around the Indiana ECSF.

G4: 30/9/6 on 57%
G5: 28/3/2 on 59%
G6: 41/10/3 on 68%

And possibly could still have played at superstar level if he had been the 1st option.

[Nash]

Wade
Kobe
Drexler

[Milbuck]

All these guys are better than their stats indicate. Are we examining these players according to what actually happened, or in a vacuum under normal circumstances? Because 2000 Kobe was actually pretty damn good before the ankle injury in the finals, dude was putting up 23/4/5/2/2 on 55% TS with great defense through the 1st 3 rounds, and played a huge role in clutch moments. He clearly wasn't the bonafide superstar he'd be the next year, but aside from that finals series he was really, really good.

And Wade imo was still a top-flight player and capable of leading a conference finals-level team given the right coach and a well built roster. Lebron haters will call him Flash, Lebron trolls will act like he was the same dude as the washed up version that showed up in the 2014 finals..but all in all he was still excellent. Better than any version of Harden aside from today's MVP-level version imo.

All healthy, I'd go with Wade, then Kobe, then Drexler. It's a close comparison.

[Marchesk]

Oscar Robertson 1971 finals with Kareem as FMVP:

23.5/5/9.5 on 52.3%

[Fire Colangelo]

Wade and Drexlar > Kobe in the finals that's for sure.

16/5/4 on 37% FG while Shaq dropped 38/17/2 on 61% FG

not even his TS% can make him look decent, 41% TS :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Remembered this thread after seeing the "worst 2nd option" thread made earlier

[JohnFreeman]

Wade played great D

[SamuraiSWISH]

Stats?

Drexler
Wade
Kobe

Performance - Ability?

Wade
Drexler
Kobe

[Smoke117]

Kooooooooooooooooooobriiiiiiiiiiiiiick

[HOoopCityJones]

Unfair comparison imo, Kobe was clearly injured while the other two were relatively healthy.

Do 01 Kobe, and now we're talking.

[Micku]

Wade played great D

Kobe did too. It was his best defensive season imo.

[T_L_P]

Drexler

Wade
Kobe

Kobe was actually fantastic in the 2000 Regular Season (that was when he was truly an elite defensive guard). He was still very good in the Playoffs before the Finals, but he didn't live up to what he had done in the RS. Neither did Wade to be fair.

Reference Player Comparison Finder (might want to add this to the OP):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=1995&p1=drexlcl01&y2=2000&p2=bryanko01&y3=2012&p3=wadedw01&p4=&p5=&p6=

Clyde's ORtg and OBPM (even though the data isn't good so it's not accurate) is crazy.

If it's just talent, Wade would be closer to Clyde. One played in the 90s West and the other played in the 10s East though.

[HOoopCityJones]

I thought 2k1 Kobe wasn't a "sidekick" though? Jesus you Kobe stans flip flop to fit your agenda.

Where did I say he was a sidekick in my post? The ni99a was playing hurt, compared to the other two options, it's not even a contest.

I'll say one thing though, could Drexler or Wade takeover a finals game with their best player fouled out while injured?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe was actually fantastic in the 2000 Regular Season (that was when he was truly an elite defensive guard).
To be fair Kobe was elite defensively in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2008. 2nd team caliber in 2009, 2010, and 2011. He doesn't deserve all his 1st teams, particularly 2006 and 2007. But let's not underrate his defense either.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Where did I say he was a sidekick in my post? The ni99a was playing hurt, compared to the other two options, it's not even a contest.

I'll say one thing though, could Drexler or Wade takeover a finals game with their best player fouled out while injured?
You mentioned 2001 Kobe and where he'd rank on the topic of ranking "second options" ... thus admitting he was a sidekick, when in every other argument yall consider him a 1a / 1b scenario. Which he was IMO. Is all that fat, and Carls Jr. burgers cutting off circulation to your brain?

[HOoopCityJones]

You mentioned 2001 Kobe and where he'd rank on the topic of ranking "second options" ... thus admitting he was a sidekick, when in every other argument yall consider him a 1a / 1b scenario. Which he was IMO. Is all that fat, and Carls Jr. burgers cutting off circulation to your brain?

Second option in the vein of Magic and Kareem and vice versa.

Why can't anyone just call shit the way it was? Kobe wasn't just some sidekick role player like Harden was before leaving OKC. Shaq and Kobe was always a two headed monster, one doesn't succeed without the other.

Jordan's dick cutting off the circulation in yours?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan's dick stuck in yours?
Dude you make countless threads just to talk about Kobe. You're obsessed. Like today with the superstar posterizing other superstars thread. And then your defense of Kobe in this thread.

I don't do that with Jordan. I comment on him in threads that I deem interesting, or need clarification, but he isn't all I talk about.

You can parrot the facetious comment I made about Madonna never saying MJ had a small dick size compared to Pippen, which I did in jest responding to known Kobe troll, 9erempire ... but seriously, move on. I laugh about it, but I'm still objective about him.

Kobe was Pippen, sidekick status in 2000. 2001? Legit co-superstar. I'm just calling you out as a Kobe stan, with the ever shifting was Kobe a sidekick or co-alpha for the 2001 - 2004 Laker teams. Which is it?

[HOoopCityJones]

Dude you make countless threads just to talk about Kobe. You're obsessed. Like today with the superstar posterizing other superstars thread. And then your defense of Kobe in this thread.

I don't do that with Jordan. I comment on him in threads that I deem interesting, or need clarification, but he isn't all I talk about.

You can parrot the facetious comment I made about Madonna never saying MJ had a small dick size compared to Pippen, which I did in jest responding to known Kobe troll, 9erempire ... but seriously, move on. I laugh about it, but I'm still objective about him.

Kobe was Pippen, sidekick status in 2000. 2001? Legit co-superstar. I'm just calling you out as a Kobe stan, with the ever shifting was Kobe a sidekick or co-alpha for the 2001 - 2004 Laker teams. Which is it?

Why are you lying? :biggums:

Stopped reading right there, you're only trying to convince yourself at this point. You may not make threads as often , but who doesn't know you stan Jordan?

I'm not obsessed. Kareem and Shaq are my all-time favorite Lakers, but I acknowledge that Magic and Kobe are the greatest.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why are you lying? :biggums:
The last MJ related thread I made was asking if he could've passed Kareem's all-time scoring mark had he not been retired in '94, and the near majority of the 1995 season. Or if he stuck around for individual accolades in his twilight like Kobe is doing currently. That's it.

[HOoopCityJones]

The last MJ related thread I made was asking if he could've passed Kareem's all-time scoring mark had he not been retired in '94, and the near majority of the 1995 season. Or if he stuck around for individual accolades in his twilight like Kobe is doing currently. That's it.

I only defend Kobe when I feel there's blatant downplaying going on with clear agenda. Especially from posters like you who clearly know better.

But alas , we all have our own perception of things. I'm a Laker/Kobe fan, maybe that makes me a little biased, but it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

[Micku]

To be fair Kobe was elite defensively in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2008. 2nd team caliber in 2009, 2010, and 2011. He doesn't deserve all his 1st teams, particularly 2006 and 2007. But let's not underrate his defense either.

I wouldn't say that year either. They missed out Brewer that year. Probably should've been first team. Tony Allen and Iggy were great as well and they also could've got first team. Wade was solid too. Brewer and Wade didn't get in.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I wouldn't say that year either. They missed out Brewer that year. Probably should've been first team. Tony Allen and Iggy were great as well and they also could've got first team. Wade was solid too. Brewer and Wade didn't get in.
Forgot about Tony Allen, you right. Anyway, you agree with the rest?

[Micku]

Forgot about Tony Allen, you right. Anyway, you agree with the rest?

Yeah I agree with the rest. Kobe was an elite defender from 00-04 and 08. He didn't get first defensive team in 02, but he was still elite status.

[Artillery]

Wade and Drexlar > Kobe in the finals that's for sure.

16/5/4 on 37% FG while Shaq dropped 38/17/2 on 61% FG

not even his TS% can make him look decent, 41% TS :lol

Kobe's never been a good Finals performer so that's not surprising.

[Magic 32]

Kobe's never been a good Finals performer so that's not surprising.

A troll post that leads to another troll post. Suprise suprise.

When will the ankle injury come up? Or the fact that Kobe has been good in a number of finals games.

[ImKobe]

Kobe was averaging 22/4/5 on 46/36/74 shooting before his injury in Game 2 of the Finals...plus you add that epic OT game he had in Game 4 + 26/10 in the game to clinch the series...he was better than Drexler and Wade.

highlights of his Playoff run:

- 1st round vs Kings: 28/4/4 on 50/33/78 shooting, 3 straight games of 30 or more points in the series.

- Game-winning shot against Phoenix in Game 2

- the entire Portland series, where he avgd 20/5/6/2 a game with 2.1 bpg (shooting 52% from 3). Big moments being the game-saving block on Sabonis in Game 3 and leading the team in 4 categories in Game 7 with a 25/12/7/4 performance. You could make a case for him being the most important player in that series with the defense he played + putting up more blocks than Shaq.

- Game 4 @ Indiana was his coming out party. That performance in Overtime with Shaq out was one for the ages, that game-winning tip-in with 6 seconds left...

- And don't forget the game where he held Reggie to 1/16 shooting...

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe was averaging 22/4/5 on 46/36/74 shooting before his injury in Game 2 of the Finals...plus you add that epic OT game he had in Game 4 + 26/10 in the game to clinch the series...he was better than Drexler and Wade.

highlights of his Playoff run:

- 1st round vs Kings: 28/4/4 on 50/33/78 shooting, 3 straight games of 30 or more points in the series.

- Game-winning shot against Phoenix in Game 2

- the entire Portland series, where he avgd 20/5/6/2 a game with 2.1 bpg (shooting 52% from 3). Big moments being the game-saving block on Sabonis in Game 3 and leading the team in 4 categories in Game 7 with a 25/12/7/4 performance. You could make a case for him being the most important player in that series with the defense he played + putting up more blocks than Shaq.

- Game 4 @ Indiana was his coming out party. That performance in Overtime with Shaq out was one for the ages, that game-winning tip-in with 6 seconds left...

- And don't forget the game where he held Reggie to 1/16 shooting...

Except, the game is right here on YouTube, and he ISN't guarding Reggie, RON HARPER IS..... Kobe was on Mark Jackson.

Want the link?

[ImKobe]

Except, the game is right here on YouTube, and he ISN't guarding Reggie, RON HARPER IS..... Kobe was on Mark Jackson.

Want the link?

Kobe also guarded Miller...

who cares, he was still the best of 3 regardless.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade's the Best then Kobe and last Drexler.

[Artillery]

A troll post that leads to another troll post. Suprise suprise.

When will the ankle injury come up? Or the fact that Kobe has been good in a number of finals games.

A significant NBA record for Kirby.

The 2000 Finals have the record for the biggest difference in scoring ppg between the leading and the second leading scorer on a winning team:

Shaq - 38.0 ppg
Kobe - 15.6 ppg

That is a difference of 22.4 points.

2. 2006 finals - 20.9 ppg difference between Dwyane Wade and Antoine Walker
3. 1993 finals - 19.8 ppg difference between Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen
4. 1975 finals - 18.0 ppg difference between Rick Barry and Jamaal Wilkes

:oldlol: Kobe
:oldlol: worst Finals performer in NBA history
:oldlol: carried by Shaq and MVPau
:oldlol: won the majority of his titles as a sidekick

[GimmeThat]

A significant NBA record for Kirby.

The 2000 Finals have the record for the biggest difference in scoring ppg between the leading and the second leading scorer on a winning team:

Shaq - 38.0 ppg
Kobe - 15.6 ppg

That is a difference of 22.4 points.

2. 2006 finals - 20.9 ppg difference between Dwyane Wade and Antoine Walker
3. 1993 finals - 19.8 ppg difference between Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen
4. 1975 finals - 18.0 ppg difference between Rick Barry and Jamaal Wilkes

:oldlol: Kobe
:oldlol: worst Finals performer in NBA history
:oldlol: carried by Shaq and MVPau
:oldlol: won the majority of his titles as a sidekick


Those 3 eventual TV broadcaster certainly did their job not to get embarrassed.

I cant even decide if thats a double negative or not.

[Demitri98]

'12 Wade was still a star capable of carrying the team over long stretches. People forget how dominant his playoff run was in '12 because he was overshadowed by LeBron in ECF games 6 & 7 and the Finals. You could argue that up until game 6 vs Boston Wade was still the alpha male. Bron may have won MVP but Wade was just as great in the postseason.

Drexler jumped on Hakeem's back after Hakeem drug a mediocre squad to a title in '94. He was a great 2nd option that Hakeem didn't have before and he simply pushed them over the top in '95. Were it not for Clyde, Hakeem wouldn't have done it again.

'00 Kobe was the perfect compliment to one of the MDE centers at his peak. He could lock down the other team's best perimeter guy and pull defensive attention away from the true centerpiece of that team. Gets the edge over Drexler because of his defensive prowess and youth.

So:
Wade
Kobe
Drexler

[GrapeApe]

Wade
Drexler
Kobe

2012 Wade is underrated imo. He acquiesced his role and battled some injuries, but make no mistake, he was still a dominant player and a superstar. Save for one crap game against Indiana (which he quickly made up for) he was a 24/6/5/2/1 57%TS player in the playoffs. He was clutch too, shooting well over 50% in 4th quarters.

[Mr. Jabbar]

11' Lebron, oh wait

[Papaya Petee]

Wade
Drexler
Kobe



Wade was HUGE in the Indiana series (phenomenal in games 4-6), played very good in the finals, and was solid against Boston. His 20\5\4 series numbers against the Knicks would of been higher, but since the Heat were dominating the Knicks in every way shape form, Wade didn't play much nor shoot much.

Drexler and Kobe had the luxury of playing with Peak Hakeem and Peak Shaq those years. Yes Wade played with Peak LeBron, which is basically the same level of greatness. but it is easier to play within the post then share the ball with another ball-dominant wing player.

[bizil]

I would say Wade, Drexler, then Kobe. Wade and Drexler were already HOFers and proved they could win rings before. Or in Drexler's case, get two teams to the Finals. Both guys were still in their primes as well. Kobe wasn't even in his prime yet, even though u could see he would be a superstar.

[TheMarkMadsen]

thought it said 14 wade not 12 wade

2012 Wade was a beast, put up 23/6/5 in the finals while leading the team in blocks

[Smoke117]

Kobe averaged 22.3ppg in 2000...why would you raise that to 23? That makes no sense.

[PJR]

http://youtu.be/LfWCVEDwE5I

Obvi

[mehyaM24]

drexler
kobe
wade

wade was "good" at best in the postseason.

[PJR]

drexler
kobe
wade

wade was "good" at best in the postseason.

Retard alert

[Smoke117]

drexler
kobe
wade

wade was "good" at best in the postseason.

:yaohappy: Tell that to the Pacers.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe averaged 22.3ppg in 2000...why would you raise that to 23? That makes no sense.


22.5 not 22.3

[SamuraiSWISH]

Retard alert
LeBron stan alert you mean ...

Wade's 40+ point performance @ Indy, and his dismantling of OKC in the shade during the Finals is slept on.

Comparing these 3, Wade was closest to his peak compared to all players. Ability wise he was the best. Statistically it was Drexler.

[insidious301]

drexler
kobe
wade

wade was "good" at best in the postseason.
Thanks for the +rep in another thread. Appreciate that.

I would probably put Kobe ahead of Drexler on this list because of his defense, but it's arguable. Good stuff.

Wade had a few memorable games, just as Kobe did (Game 7 vs POR, Game 4 vs Pacers). Drexler is very underrated in general, so I like the mention from OP.

[G0ATbe]

Kobe
Wade
Drexler

[TheMarkMadsen]

2000 Kobe averaged more blocks than Shaq in the WCF, and was getting 2 steals and 2 blocks per game in the playoffs

just a beast defensively

[IllegalD]

Kobe was averaging 22/4/5 on 46/36/74 shooting before his injury in Game 2 of the Finals...plus you add that epic OT game he had in Game 4 + 26/10 in the game to clinch the series...he was better than Drexler and Wade.

highlights of his Playoff run:

- 1st round vs Kings: 28/4/4 on 50/33/78 shooting, 3 straight games of 30 or more points in the series.

- Game-winning shot against Phoenix in Game 2

- the entire Portland series, where he avgd 20/5/6/2 a game with 2.1 bpg (shooting 52% from 3). Big moments being the game-saving block on Sabonis in Game 3 and leading the team in 4 categories in Game 7 with a 25/12/7/4 performance. You could make a case for him being the most important player in that series with the defense he played + putting up more blocks than Shaq.

- Game 4 @ Indiana was his coming out party. That performance in Overtime with Shaq out was one for the ages, that game-winning tip-in with 6 seconds left...

- And don't forget the game where he held Reggie to 1/16 shooting...

:applause:

Don't forget the alley-oop to Shaq after crossing over Pippen to cap-off the epic comeback. One of the most epic/iconic playoff moments of all time. And at 21 years old! :bowdown:

[triangleoffense]

not really fair to put 2000 Kobe since he was obviously injured and not even in his 20s, Wade and Drexler were almost in their 30s in 94 and 12