Start a franchise: Kobe or Jordan?

[CavaliersFTW]

Phil Jackson: [I][URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/24/sports/la-sp-sn-phil-jackson-bill-russell-20130524"]"I would flip a coin and whichever one came up heads or tails, I

[dubeta]

MJ



Kobe











McGee


Wilt

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan

[navy]

Kobe. More longevity and wont retire on you twice after championships.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Id take Wilt the Stilt tbh cant argue with 2/6.

He was only an eyelash away from 6 rings guys remember that.

[sportjames23]

Kobe. More longevity and wont retire on you twice after championships.


You'd be undefeated in the Finals with MJ.

And he wouldn't rape anyone except other teams.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Considering Jordan left to go play baseball, and then retired again after 3 more years, and also the fact that Kobe played more seasons and scored more points, I'll take Jordan.

[9erempiree]

There are pretty much equal players except Kobe has the edge in scoring and passing, points and assists. Deadlock at 5 rings or more.

Pretty much the same players but I go with Kobe because he didn't need to rest and go on vacation like MJ did.

[3ball]

Considering Jordan left to go play baseball, and then retired again after 3 more years, and also the fact that Kobe played more seasons and scored more points, I'll take Jordan.
phil jackson would snap-take jordan apparently... said jordan "had leadership in his bones"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofNka7qwOB4


in the clip below, phil says jordan > kobe again, this time because of jordan's big hands and power, but also because apparently, it was phil that told MJ to go back and strip karl malone in game 6 of 1998 Finals... who knew...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nClAiN9MXyc&t=2m00s

[9erempiree]

phil jackson would snap-take jordan apparently... said jordan "had leadership in his bones"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofNka7qwOB4


in the clip below, phil says jordan > kobe again, this time because of jordan's big hands and power, but also because apparently, it was phil that told MJ to go back and strip karl malone in game 6 of 1998 Finals... who knew...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nClAiN9MXyc&t=2m00s

:facepalm

Yea bro, we are suppose to believe the greatest coach in history would pick MJ based on "big hands and power" and "had leadership in bones" :lol

He doesn't really point out any advantage MJ had over Kobe with those comments.

Phil is a "zen master" and he is using his skills right now to fool you guys.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

There are pretty much equal players except Kobe has the edge in scoring and passing, points and assists. Deadlock at 5 rings or more.

Pretty much the same players but I go with Kobe because he didn't need to rest and go on vacation like MJ did.

Kobe has the edge in scoring passing points and assists? Because he played many more games and seasons that makes it the edge?

If I wanted a 1/14 dude, I'd go with Kobe. If I wanted a guy who won 6 chips in 13 full seasons without a dominant big man, I'd pick Mike.

It's not even close.:facepalm

[9erempiree]

Kobe has the edge in scoring passing points and assists? Because he played many more games and seasons that makes it the edge?

If I wanted a 1/14 dude, I'd go with Kobe. If I wanted a guy who won 6 chips in 13 full seasons without a dominant big man, I'd pick Mike.

It's not even close.:facepalm

Bro...it's not even Kobe's fault that MJ didn't sustain the durability like Kobe did to play so many years.

You act like being able to play for many years is a bad thing. We are not talking about old ass Wizards Michael Jordan here....Kobe is playing at the highest level. Heck, this year's Kobe I would take over Jordan's final season with the Bulls.

[3ball]

He doesn't really point out any advantage MJ had over Kobe with those comments.


"One of the biggest differences from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader. Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence. Kobe had a long way to go before he could make that claim. He talked a good game but he'd yet to experience the cold truth of leadership in his bones."

That was Phil Jackson on First Take talking Jordan/Kobe.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofNka7qwOB4

anything else 9erempiree?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe. More longevity and wont retire on you twice after championships.
I get mentioning the first time. But the 2nd? Krause destroyed that championship team. So what the hell are you talking about?

[LilEddyCurry]

There are pretty much equal players except Kobe has the edge in scoring and passing, points and assists. Deadlock at 5 rings or more.

Pretty much the same players but I go with Kobe because he didn't need to rest and go on vacation like MJ did.
Worst poster on ISH, you're the reason why some people don't like Kobe. LeBron has the pretty bad stans but you are the worst stan on the board hands down. :facepalm

[9erempiree]

"One of the biggest differences from my perspective was Michael's superior skills as a leader. Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence. Kobe had a long way to go before he could make that claim. He talked a good game but he'd yet to experience the cold truth of leadership in his bones."

That was Phil Jackson on First Take talking Jordan/Kobe.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofNka7qwOB4

anything else 9erempiree?

Again, without sounding redundant or having to type, that response still does not give MJ the edge.

He is the Zen Master and he has the ability to mind control.

[9erempiree]

Worst poster on ISH, you're the reason why some people don't like Kobe. LeBron has the pretty bad stans but you are the worst stan on the board hands down. :facepalm

What I say is pretty much truth and as objective as I can be. Without getting into a heated debate, I simply said they are equal players. They both have 5 or more rings.

What is there to say?

You must be a Jordan fan.

[T_L_P]

Jordan.

Clearly the better offensive player, and 10 times the defensive player.

Then there are 9 or 10 players between him and Kobe

[9erempiree]

Jordan.

Clearly the better offensive player, and 10 times the defensive player.

Then there are 9 or 10 players between him and Kobe

:facepalm Horrible argument and I hope you are not an attorney. If you were, you would be an ambulance chaser.

Anyways, no proof that MJ is a better offensive player, what are you going to go by? Points?...lol

Maybe he is a better defensive player due to the DPOY award but without it, MJ and Kobe are at a deadlock.

9 or 10 players? Opinion. Kobe is top 3 in history in scoring. When you need a point, you can count on Kareem, Karl and Kobe.

[julizaver]

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Phil Jackson: [I][URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/24/sports/la-sp-sn-phil-jackson-bill-russell-20130524"]"I would flip a coin and whichever one came up heads or tails, I

[9erempiree]

Aside that Phil said that he would pick Russell instead, because of his 11 rings, he gave the edge to Jordan (better defence, bigger hands, better relations with teamates ...) more often when asked to compare both.

I would take Jordan anyday anytime. Better athlete, better player, better leader ... And I am not even bringing that 6>5 argument, or Jordan's 6 FMVPs. It was not Kobe fault that he happen to plays alongside Shaq and Shaq was the NBA best player during Lakers 3pt.

Another player (Kendall Gill) who played vs both Jordan and Kobe, claimed that Jordan was a little bit stronger, faster and better athlete. http://watch.nba.com/nba/video/channels/nba_tv/2014/12/14/20141213-gt-chasing-mj.nba

I am neither Jordan or Kobe "stan" - I have seen/watched both at their primes and they are not very closed, although Kobe is the closest thing to Jordan (same height, same moves ...) . From what I have seen I give clearly the edge to MJ.

Check the bolded.

So your argument is that they are the same height and have the same moves. :facepalm Might as well say they are both black and they both wear Nikes. Can Kobe not chew gum now. I mean seriously, I don't want to pick on you but everyone seems to think MJ invented everything. Should Kobe been a 7 foot athlete. Should he not take a fade away because MJ supposedly invented it?

There is really no argument for or against Kobe and Jordan. Put their names in a hat and draw.

[DCL]

prime jordan + prime shaq = more than 3 championships

would had been some crazy dynasty shit like the bill russell boston days

[9erempiree]

prime jordan + prime shaq = more than 3 championships

would had been some crazy dynasty shit like the bill russell boston days

It already happened.

[Dragonyeuw]

Heck, this year's Kobe I would take over Jordan's final season with the Bulls.

And you'd be a moron to do so.

Points MJ 28.7 Kobe 25.4

Field goal% MJ .465 Kobe .386

TS% MJ .533 Kobe .489

Rebounds MJ 5.8 Kobe 5.0

Assists MJ 3.5 Kobe 4.9

Steals MJ 1.7 Kobe 1.4

Blocks 0.5 MJ Kobe 0.2

What's your argument? This current version of Kobe is producing like 2002 Wizards MJ pre knee injury( MJ was actually 25/6/5 on 42% through the all-star break) and 2002 MJ certainly isnt better than 98 MJ. So again....... what's your argument?

[Dragonyeuw]

Anyways, no proof that MJ is a better offensive player, what are you going to go by? Points?...lol

Kobe is top 3 in history in scoring. When you need a point, you can count on Kareem, Karl and Kobe.

So by that logic, Karl Malone is a better scorer than MJ? Because absolutely no one makes that claim, but he is ahead of MJ for the same reason that Kobe *now* is: longevity. Which, for the record, isn't to be spat on but keep the argument consistent.

[T_L_P]

When you need a point, you can count on Kareem, Karl and Kobe.

So, when you need a point, one bucket, you're taking Robert Parish over Kevin Durant?

:roll:

Jordan leads Kobe in most offensive stats...and he clearly had more success too (6 rings without anyone half as good as prime Shaq).

[The Red Viper]

Jordan.

Kobe has longevity on his side and is a better shooter than Mike. But, otherwise, Mike is better than him in all other aspects. Be it scoring, rebounding and defending. I do feel Mike at times gets overrated with the whole "No one is close to Michael Jordan!" but he is still the best basketball player I have seen.

[9erempiree]

So by that logic, Karl Malone is a better scorer than MJ? Because absolutely no one makes that claim, but he is ahead of MJ for the same reason that Kobe *now* is: longevity. Which, for the record, isn't to be spat on but keep the argument consistent.

Actually your logic is all wrong. Nobody is bringing up Malone because he is nowhere near Kobe and MJ.

Kobe and MJ is a better argument because their difference is miniscule. MJ is not that far away from Kobe.

[The Red Viper]

Anyways, no proof that MJ is a better offensive player, what are you going to go by? Points?...lol

9 or 10 players? Opinion. Kobe is top 3 in history in scoring. When you need a point, you can count on Kareem, Karl and Kobe.

You can definitely count on Kobe when it comes to the last possession of the game. But that doesn't mean he is a better offensive player. Mike is a better offensive player because not only is he a better scorer but also, a more effecient scorer. Mike was a monster at attacking the rim. While he was never the shooter that Kobe was, except in his second stint with Bulls when he was a much better shooter outside the arc, he could hurt you in offense in a variety of ways. Kobe could as well but Mike had more in his locker offensively.

[9erempiree]

So, when you need a point, one bucket, you're taking Robert Parish over Kevin Durant?

:roll:

Jordan leads Kobe in most offensive stats...and he clearly had more success too (6 rings without anyone half as good as prime Shaq).

Please stop it. MJ is not Robert Parish to Kobe's Durant.

What most offensive stats are we talking about here? Please don't bring up averages. Averages can be manipulated to make a player look good. Like Player XYZ that has to meet that minimum games requirement to be considered.

A scrub can play 20 games and go off and call it a season. Would he be a great scorer?

[9erempiree]

Jordan.

Kobe has longevity on his side and is a better shooter than Mike. But, otherwise, Mike is better than him in all other aspects. Be it scoring, rebounding and defending. I do feel Mike at times gets overrated with the whole "No one is close to Michael Jordan!" but he is still the best basketball player I have seen.

I like how you purposely left out assist because he is behind Kobe, but kept scoring in there. Even MJ falls short compared to Kobe in scoring.

[9erempiree]

My argument isn't about who's better but who you would start a team with. You guys would take a guy that retired twice over a guy that is playing at a high level for 20 years. Doesn't really make sense and the stats don't even prove it either.

If it will make you guys happy, we can compromise, put both names in a hat and draw.

[The Red Viper]

My argument isn't about who's better but who you would start a team with. You guys would take a guy that retired twice over a guy that is playing at a high level for 20 years. Doesn't really make sense and the stats don't even prove it either.

If it will make you guys happy, we can compromise, put both names in a hat and draw.

If thats your point, fair enough. If you want longevity and reliability, and you pick Kobe its fully understandable. However, saying Kobe is a better scorer than Mike isn't true, IMO.

[The Red Viper]

I like how you purposely left out assist because he is behind Kobe, but kept scoring in there. Even MJ falls short compared to Kobe in scoring.

I actually didn't leave it out because both are more or less the same level, imo. Both were very good passers but preferred to go solo. Neither of them were the playmakers like Bird or Magic or LeBron. Which is why I didn't include the assists part.

[T_L_P]

Please stop it. MJ is not Robert Parish to Kobe's Durant.

What most offensive stats are we talking about here? Please don't bring up averages. Averages can be manipulated to make a player look good. Like Player XYZ that has to meet that minimum games requirement to be considered.

A scrub can play 20 games and go off and call it a season. Would he be a great scorer?

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/paine-datalab-kobevsmj.png?w=610&h=460

Assist %? 24.9 to 24.3...in Jordan's favor.

You said the three best scorers are the ones with the most total points. Parish has more total points than Durant. That's how you boiled it down. Don't deviate from your stand, 9er.

[LeBird]

If there's anyone more overrated than Jordan it's Kobe.

[Dragonyeuw]

Actually your logic is all wrong. Nobody is bringing up Malone because he is nowhere near Kobe and MJ.



What logic are you using? You ask for evidence that MJ is superior offensively and then say 'points?....lol', obviously implying that total points can no longer be used as a pro MJ argument. Well, Malone also has more points.

You also make the comment that if you need a point, you can count on Kareem, Malone and Kobe, further implying that Malone is a better scorer. If that's not what you meant, then you need to word your argument in a way that doesn't imply something you didn't intend on. Because right now, based on that statement, since Malone is ahead of Kobe you can count on him moreso than Kobe, at least until such time as Kobe passes him if that happens.

[Top Gun]

Jordan.

[Dragonyeuw]

You guys would take a guy that retired twice over a guy that is playing at a high level for 20 years.

.

2000 to 2014, which includes a lock-out shortened year and basically a year off to injury. 1996 to 1999 certainly does not qualify. We get it, the guy has amazing longevity, but 20 years is pushing it.

As someone said recently, its amazing that some here act like Jordan's college years don't count as wear and tear, nor does his baseball years( albeit not high level) like we can subjectively pick and chose what athletic activities cause wear and which don't. Or that being 40 years old is OK if you've had 3 years off, because the body certainly doesn't age naturally, right?

[julizaver]

Check the bolded.

So your argument is that they are the same height and have the same moves. :facepalm Might as well say they are both black and they both wear Nikes. Can Kobe not chew gum now. I mean seriously, I don't want to pick on you but everyone seems to think MJ invented everything. Should Kobe been a 7 foot athlete. Should he not take a fade away because MJ supposedly invented it?

There is really no argument for or against Kobe and Jordan. Put their names in a hat and draw.

No, NBA do not start with MJ and the jump shot or fadaway are not invented by him. But he has some own unique way of doing it and made them popular. And I have nothing against since they work for Kobe - it is not fault to learn and copy from the best. MJ also had his idols when hea was young and copy something from them.
As a sidenote MJ said that he do not perform 360s (although he could) because he thinks that this is Dominique Willkins signature move. And he want to have his own style:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27Hk5OIe-k

I picked MJ ahead of KB because I have seen both of them play and I think he was the better player overall, not because of styles or similarities.

[K Xerxes]

Deadlock at 5 rings or more.

Kobe and LeBron are 'deadlocked' at 2 rings or more.


Please stop it. MJ is not Robert Parish to Kobe's Durant.

What most offensive stats are we talking about here? Please don't bring up averages. Averages can be manipulated to make a player look good. Like Player XYZ that has to meet that minimum games requirement to be considered.

A scrub can play 20 games and go off and call it a season. Would he be a great scorer?

Except we're talking about 15+ seasons in this instance idiot, not 20 games. Averages (points and efficiency) are more important because they indicate a per game impact, while ancient has been chuckers are rewarded in point totals for chucking on losing teams (Kobe).

So Kobe has just surpassed Jordan at the expense of an extra 196 games. A regular season warrior to top all regular season warriors (minus the MVPs). What's happened in the playoffs though, where it actually matters?

Jordan - 5987 points in 179 games (33.4ppg)
Kobe - 5640 points in 220 games (25.6ppg)

Oh woops.



I picked MJ ahead of KB because I have seen both of them play and I think he was the better player overall, not because of styles or similarities.

There's no 'think' about it. Aside from trolls (like 9er) who know they are wrong or incredibly delusional Kobe stans, everyone knows Jordan is better. Every measure or criteria that matters come to the overwhelming conclusion that Jordan is superior.

[hawksdreamfan44]

Kobe

[DCL]

Jordan - 5987 points in 179 games (33.4ppg)
Kobe - 5640 points in 220 games (25.6ppg)



/end of discussion

[I<3NBA]

I'll pick Jordan. 6 > 2

Also, as an owner, i'm not beggaring my team just to get 2 rings.

[Xiao Yao You]

MJ

[f0und]

anyone not picking jordan is a *ucking retard. notice its only kobe kids.

[SpanishACB]

Jordan obviously.

Kobe is the anti franchise player.

Imagine a car company puts out a model in year 2000 that sells alot and breaks a bunch of modern car selling records.

Imagine we're in 2014 now and they're still selling that car at current price and they refuse to make a more energy and cost efficient one because they owe so much company growth to this model.

Now imagine if customers accepted this principle and still wasted their money in buying the car.

That's the Kobe justification in a nut shell.

[deja vu]

Kobe is a poor man's Jordan so obviously I'd take MJ.

[rmt]

This is a stupid question. Kobe is a pale IMITATION of MJ.

[MastaKilla]

Kobe deadlocked' at 2 rings or more.



this is like saying Jordan without without Pippen is 'deadlocked' at no more than 2 playoff wins. Magic and Bird should get penalized for playing on stacked teams with multipler HOFers in their primes as well if you're going by this logic, Jordan's last 3 rings came on arguably the most stacked teams of all time right up there with Magic and Bird's.

Shaq played with 1st team all nba penny, prime Wade, Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel in their all star years. That's 4 all star guards, now you tell me how many rings they all won with Shaq?

Kobe won 4 of those rings putting up first option numbers.

[G0ATbe]

Easily Kobe. With him you get a guaranteed 20 years of dominance(and counting), as well as loyalty. No random retirements to play baseball, nor will he get his father killed.

Not to mention he played in a weak era...who knows how bad he'd be in todays game.

[Smook A.]

Jordan.

Better player and winner. Not that Kobe isn't a good player or a great winner, he definitely is, but MJ is just better.

[pegasus]

Jordan. I'd easily pick Kobe second before anyone else.

[Fallen Angel]

The better player.

[bizil]

Gotta be MJ! The only perimeter guys I would POSSIBLY consider taking over MJ are Magic, Bird, and Bron. AND THAT'S IT!! The reason why is because those three are ACTUALLY more versatile on offense than MJ because they can play the PF position. And Bron is the most versatile player of all time PERIOD!! But even then, I would still take MJ.

However, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, and Hakeem are such dominant inside forces that I could EASILY see a GM taking them over MJ to start a franchise. Great paint protection, high percentage inside shots, and great passing out of the post due to double teams is why the center position DOMINATES the MVP award historically. If u go by position, the centers are the guys who dominate it. Or its a PF like Duncan who is basically a center anyway.

So basically, it has to be a player with big man size and elements for me to possibly take them over MJ. I just don't see ANY RATIONALE to pick a player who can only play the perimeter positions over MJ. Kobe, Wade, Big O, West, and Doc would be next in line for the perimeter guys. And as I said before, Bron, Magic, and Bird are in their own class of perimeter guys because they have big man size and elements. Those three could have a case over MJ to start a franchise.

[pauk]

Not sure if serious.....

[DonDadda59]

It's Jordan easily. What good is longevity if it's all mired in no impact terrible basketball and bad attitude chasing away talent? You'd be better off drafting Duncan over Kobe, you get the same longevity with much more impact, far less destructive ego, and at a discount.

[gcvbcat]

There are pretty much equal players except Kobe has the edge in scoring and passing, points and assists. Deadlock at 5 rings or more.

Pretty much the same players but I go with Kobe because he didn't need to rest and go on vacation like MJ did.

hard to argue with this but I would still take jordan.

[dubeta]

If we're talking about peak '06 unstoppable Kobe; Jordan

[Prometheus]

Kobe is better at:

shooting threes
the flashier aspects of ball-handling (meaning he didn't have better ball security, just a wider arsenal of dribble moves with slightly crisper execution)

Jordan was better at:

literally every single other thing

[Prometheus]

What most offensive stats are we talking about here? Please don't bring up averages. Averages can be manipulated to make a player look good. Like Player XYZ that has to meet that minimum games requirement to be considered.

A scrub can play 20 games and go off and call it a season. Would he be a great scorer?

I know you're 100% trolling, but this post is actually so dumb that it makes me hate you as a person.

[DonDadda59]

Pretty much the same players but I go with Kobe because he didn't need to rest and go on vacation like MJ did.

:oldlol:

You should be happy Jordan took those breaks otherwise it would've taken Bean another 4 years to pass him on the scoring list. Plus the GOAT would be sitting on 8 rings, 8 finals MVPs, 6 or 7 season MVPs, 12 scoring titles.

But shooting 38% on a lottery team is just as impressive.

[red1]

save this shit for april fools OP

[Simple Jack]

:facepalm Horrible argument and I hope you are not an attorney. If you were, you would be an ambulance chaser.

Anyways, no proof that MJ is a better offensive player, what are you going to go by? Points?...lol

Maybe he is a better defensive player due to the DPOY award but without it, MJ and Kobe are at a deadlock.

9 or 10 players? Opinion. Kobe is top 3 in history in scoring. When you need a point, you can count on Kareem, Karl and Kobe.

Ambulance chasing isn't allowed.

As a side note; you can't be serious with all your posts, can you? Do you honestly think Kobe Bryant is a better basketball player with more impact than Michael Jordan?

[SamuraiSWISH]

:oldlol:

You should be happy Jordan took those breaks otherwise it would've taken Bean another 4 years to pass him on the scoring list. Plus the GOAT would be sitting on 8 rings, 8 finals MVPs, 6 or 7 season MVPs, 12 scoring titles.

But shooting 38% on a lottery team is just as impressive.
:applause:

My picks to start a franchise based off what I've seen goes as follows:

1) Jordan
2) LeBron (assuming he doesn't bail)
3) Hakeem

[Mr. Jabbar]

Both great picks, but if lebalds face appeared on that coin I'd flip agn

[9erempiree]

Got to love these new age fans who think MJ is heads and shoulders above Kobe when that is further from the truth.

All these soulless fans who adamantly say MJ is better at everything than Player A,B,C. When we know that is not the truth. People can't even give the advantage to another player when comparing them with MJ. I don't expect any less when it comes to Kobe as well. Except, Kobe is a lot better than MJ in many aspect of the game, as I mentioned earlier in previous posts.

Only a bunch of soulless sheeps would pick MJ over Kobe. Just because he has a recognizable shoe and clothing brand doesn't make him the best at everything.

I am ashamed to be categorized with you fans as basketball fans when you can't even think for yourselves.

Just put their names in a hat and draw. The name that comes up is GOAT. You have a case for both.

3 Facepalms for this.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Smoke117]

Both great picks, but if lebalds face appeared on that coin I'd flip agn


If you are going to troll...at least attempt to be clever. This is just an pathetic attempt.

[Mr. Jabbar]

If you are going to troll...at least attempt to be clever. This is just an pathetic attempt.

http://s2.postimg.org/r0kq2xp3t/baldcoin.png

wouldn't u flip the fk agn?

[SouBeachTalents]

Got to love these new age fans who think MJ is heads and shoulders above Kobe when that is further from the truth.

All these soulless fans who adamantly say MJ is better at everything than Player A,B,C. When we know that is not the truth. People can't even give the advantage to another player when comparing them with MJ. I don't expect any less when it comes to Kobe as well. Except, Kobe is a lot better than MJ in many aspect of the game, as I mentioned earlier in previous posts.

Only a bunch of soulless sheeps would pick MJ over Kobe. Just because he has a recognizable shoe and clothing brand doesn't make him the best at everything.

I am ashamed to be categorized with you fans as basketball fans when you can't even think for yourselves.

Just put their names in a hat and draw. The name that comes up is GOAT. You have a case for both.

3 Facepalms for this.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Jordan: 5 MVP's, 6 Finals MVP's, 10 scoring titles
Kobe: 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVP's, 2 scoring titles

Jordan in the regular season: 30, 6, 5 on 50%
Kobe in the regular season: 26, 5, 5 on 45%

Jordan in the playoffs: 33, 6, 6 on 49%
Kobe in the playoffs: 26, 5, 5 on 45%

Jordan in the Finals: 34, 6, 6 on 48%
Kobe in the Finals: 25, 6, 5 on 42%

[Cold soul]

MJ by far you would be crazy to pick Kobe here.

[Nevaeh]

Jordan: 5 MVP's, 6 Finals MVP's, 10 scoring titles
Kobe: 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVP's, 2 scoring titles

Jordan in the regular season: 30, 6, 5 on 50%
Kobe in the regular season: 26, 5, 5 on 45%

Jordan in the playoffs: 33, 6, 6 on 49%
Kobe in the playoffs: 26, 5, 5 on 45%

Jordan in the Finals: 34, 6, 6 on 48%
Kobe in the Finals: 25, 6, 5 on 42%


Not to mention both the franchise and cutural impact that Jordan would bring to the table, creating clone after clone to not only keep the league exciting, but also keeping Jordan's name relevant to your franchise for years to come, even after he's retired.

[dreamwarrior]

I'd take MJ. He was more of a team player. Kobe's out there playing like he's fantasizing about playing in the NBA trying to shoot 15-30 footers against 3 defenders. How do you build a team around that?

[ihoopallday]

MJ
Shaq (If he doesn't get lazy)

I'd take those players before Kobe, LeBron, etc.

[rmt]

The original question is not even who's greater, but who to start a franchise with - which moves Kobe even farther behind. On a GOAT list, I reluctantly put Kobe at #9 because the sheer weight of his resume is better than Hakeem's - not that he is a better player (he isn't) or would I start a franchise with Kobe over Hakeem (I wouldn't).

When the question is who to start a franchise with, IMO, Kobe falls behind Lebron, KG, DRob, and Moses Malone. The intangibles like leadership, making people around him better and getting along with others are lacking in Kobe compared to other greats.