80% people agree Kobe is top 10 all time

[Hizack]

Per ESPN poll (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/polls).


http://i.minus.com/iJjljpM1UNvv0.png



I thought there would only be like 50% people would think that way :applause:

[gts]

When you look at all the BBall fans in the world it's only a handful of idiots that try to diminish Kobe's accomplishments for whatever reason

When it's all said and done Kobe will go down as one of the best to ever play the game...

[fpliii]

50.4% would really pick Kentucky over the Sixers? Yikes.

[Myth]

Yeah, but 80% likely couldn't name more than 1 player before 1980.

[G0ATbe]

I think every nba fan on earth knows deep down Kobe is top 10. Even those LeBald fans that say he isn't out of insecurity.

[gts]

Kobe haters will now be known as 16 percenters :lol

[robert de niro]

are we really gonna give that much credibility to the same demographic area that picked Bush, twice. Leave it to the professionals

[stalkerforlife]

This is ridiculous.

To even question Kobe being top 10 is a joke.

He's top 5 and the evidence to support that is glaring.

[dh144498]

are we really gonna give that much credibility to the same demographic area that picked Bush, twice. Leave it to the professionals

the actual professionals on TV and sports teams or ISH professionals?

[Myth]

He's top 5 and the evidence to support that is glaring.

:lol

[r15mohd]

This is ridiculous.

To even question Kobe being top 10 is a joke.

He's top 5 and the evidence to support that is glaring.


:no:

top 10, yes, but definitely not top 5

MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Russel
Magic
Bird
TD
Shaq
Hakeem/Kobe
Hakeem/Kobe

[BigTicket]

I agree with the poll, Kobe is in the 6-10 range alltime.

[Nash]

He is top 10.

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem

9th, and he will stay top 10 for a long time. The only one I see overtaking him in the future is Lebron.

[MP.Trey]

I agree with the poll, Kobe is in the 6-10 range alltime.
Same. And I dislike the guy with a passion. I think most rational basketball fans have him in that range.

[Mr. Jabbar]

proud 2% here

[BigTicket]

He is top 10.

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Wilt
Duncan
Kobe
Hakeem

9th, and he will stay top 10 for a long time. The only one I see overtaking him in the future is Lebron.

Durant and Davis might have a shot as well. Both are at least as good as Kobe was at the same age, but they would obviously have to start winning some titles.

[SsKSpurs21]

I am not a Kobe fan but you cannot deny that he is not in the top 10. His body of work speaks for its self. Sure he has his flaws like fg% or selfishness or whatever but so does every other player in the top 10. I have him in the 7-9 range.

[The Macho Man]

Durant and Davis might have a shot as well. Both are at least as good as Kobe was at the same age, but they would obviously have to start winning some titles.

12 year old kobe was better than fvkugly

[stalkerforlife]

:lol

What's so funny?

Most ever first team ALL-NBA selections.

Most ever first team ALL-DEFENSE selections.

3rd all time in regular season scoring.

3rd all time in playoff scoring.

Only player in NBA history with 30,000 points, 6 thousand rebounds, and 6 thousand assists.

5 NBA titles and 7 finals appearances.

Most consecutive all-star game selections in NBA history with 16.

Top 5 in MVP voting for 11 consecutive seasons.

2 NBA finals MVP awards.

Etc.

Like I said, the evidence is glaring.

[Myth]

What's so funny?

Most ever first team ALL-NBA selections.

Most ever first team ALL-DEFENSE selections.

3rd all time in regular season scoring.

3rd all time in playoff scoring.

Only player in NBA history with 30,000 points, 6 thousand rebounds, and 6 thousand assists.

5 NBA titles and 7 finals appearances.

Most consecutive all-star game selections in NBA history with 16.

Top 5 in MVP voting for 11 consecutive seasons.

2 NBA finals MVP awards.

Etc.

Like I said, the evidence is glaring.

It is funny because even with all that, there are 5 other players with better resumes. Longevity is the only thing that even puts him close to the conversation. Most trivial is Kobe's all-star selections, which a few of them are due to popularity only.

[stalkerforlife]

It is funny because even with all that, there are 5 other players with better resumes. Longevity is the only thing that even puts him close to the conversation.

Give me 5 better resumes.

And you trying to discount longevity to suit your agenda doesn't work, bub. What has happened and what is continually happening is not imaginary. You can't just act like it doesn't exist to push your hating agenda.

[Myth]

Give me 5 better resumes.

And you trying to discount longevity to suit your agenda doesn't work, bub. What has happened and what is continually happening is not imaginary. You can't just act like it doesn't exist to push your hating agenda.

I don't have time to list their resumes, but these guys have them:

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Bird
Magic

[stalkerforlife]

I don't have time to list their resumes, but these guys have them:

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Bird
Magic

That's what I thought.

[The Macho Man]

I don't have time to list their resumes, but these guys have them:

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Put kobe in the 60s and he has 11 rings and Russ got 0
Bird and magic would get torched 1 on 1
Mj dresses horribly
Kareem is literally a cancer patient

[gts]

It is funny because even with all that, there are 5 other players with better resumes. Longevity is the only thing that even puts him close to the conversation. Most trivial is Kobe's all-star selections, which a few of them are due to popularity only.

That's not the only thing and you know it...


Funny thing is everybody tosses out the word longevity like it's a bad thing...

it's not... even MJ one of the best to ever play the game couldn't hack it, he had to step away twice in his career for a breather... The dedication to coming back year after year after year is quite a feat in itself but to not only come back season after season but to push to get the most out of yourself mentally and physically is huge...

[HOoopCityJones]

I don't have time to list their resumes, but these guys have them:

Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Bird
Magic

Wait, how does Bird have a better resume exactly? :wtf:

I'll give you Russ, Kareem and Jordan. Magic and Kobe are pretty close.

[stalkerforlife]

That's not the only thing and you know it...


Funny thing is everybody tosses out the word longevity like it's a bad thing...

it's not... even MJ one of the best to ever play the game couldn't hack it, he had to step away twice in his career for a breather... The dedication to coming back year after year after year is quite a feat in itself but to not only come back season after season but to push to get the most out of yourself mentally and physically is huge...

Exactly. EXACTLY.

People acting like longevity is not honorable and doesn't count? :biggums:

[Myth]

Wait, how does Bird have a better resume exactly? :wtf:

I'll give you Russ, Kareem and Jordan. Magic and Kobe are pretty close.

3 NBA MVPs
3 championships as the man (albeit only got 2 of the FMVPS)
24.3/10.0/6.3/1.7/0.8 (49.6fg%) career averages versus 25.2/5.3/4.8/1.5/0.5 (45.2fg%)

There are other guys who also have arguments for better careers too, including Wilt and Duncan. Shaq's prime was also >>> Kobe's.

[stalkerforlife]

3 NBA MVPs
3 championships as the man (albeit only got 2 of the FMVPS)
24.3/10.0/6.3/1.7/0.8 (49.6fg%) career averages versus 25.2/5.3/4.8/1.5/0.5 (45.2fg%)

Defense.

Longevity.

Carried worse teams to titles.

Oh wait, you don't count longevity because playing at a high level for a long time doesn't mean anything.

[Myth]

Exactly. EXACTLY.

People acting like longevity is not honorable and doesn't count? :biggums:

Of course it should be considered, but Kobe fans are acting like him being 3rd in scoring is because of his greatness only and not because of longevity. It says a lot about him, but if it were truly as meaningful as people pretend it is, then Kobe would be better than Jordan, which is simply not true.

[Myth]

Defense.

Longevity.

Carried worse teams to titles.

Oh wait, you don't count longevity because playing at a high level for a long time doesn't mean anything.

Bird's back issues shortening his career doesn't make the most important part of Bird's career, his prime, less meaningful. And LOL at "carried." Kobe got bailed the f*ck out and you act like he carried them.

[ninephive]

I am not a Kobe fan but you cannot deny that he is not in the top 10. His body of work speaks for its self. Sure he has his flaws like fg% or selfishness or whatever but so does every other player in the top 10. I have him in the 7-9 range.
I agree...it would be really tough to keep him out. My current list:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem
11. Lebron

Lebron should be top 10 pretty soon. Hakeem had a amazing peak, but all the first round exits and winning in the Jordan-less years will ultimately hurt his resume.

[stalkerforlife]

Bird's back issues shortening his career doesn't make the most important part of Bird's career, his prime, less meaningful. And LOL at "carried." Kobe got bailed the f*ck out and you act like he carried them.

Kobe willed those teams to titles and your hatred will never allow you to see that. He did what he had to do to win, like a rugged pit bull, not caring about prettiness.

Kobe's prime defense is some of the greatest defense of all time and absolutely shits on Bird. They are comparable offensively.

Kobe is better than Bird and anyone with basketball sense knows this.

[Myth]

Kobe willed those teams to titles and your hatred will never allow you to see that. He did what he had to do to win, like a rugged pit bull, not caring about prettiness.

Kobe's prime defense is some of the greatest defense of all time and absolutely shits on Bird. They are comparable offensively.

Kobe is better than Bird and anyone with basketball sense knows this.

Ok buddy. Apparently my "hatred" outweighs Kobe's genitals in your mouth.

[HOoopCityJones]

Bird's back issues shortening his career doesn't make the most important part of Bird's career, his prime, less meaningful. And LOL at "carried." Kobe got bailed the f*ck out and you act like he carried them.

And Kobe not being as good as or better than Jordan doesn't make his accomplishments moot either. Lol.


All you guys who claim to be objective posters have a clear bias and double standard you only apply to Kobe. For example, people keep talking about the extra four years it took Kobe to pass Jordan. Yet, no one says anything about the lockouts and his injury that took him out all of but 6 games last year.

Also , I saw your post about Bird and I still fail to see how he's better. He's obviously the better rebounder, but Defense, getting to the rim, Longevity, more Finals appearances and playing with less HoF talent at a time puts him above Bird on my list. If you don't see it, I understand completely, but we can agree to disagree.


Ive always said it, but Kobe and Duncan have surpassed Bird and Magic , Shaq too.

[r15mohd]

And Kobe not being as good as or better than Jordan doesn't make his accomplishments moot either. Lol.


All you guys who claim to be objective posters have a clear bias and double standard you only apply to Kobe. For example, people keep talking about the extra four years it took Kobe to pass Jordan. Yet, no one says anything about the lockouts and his injury that took him out all of but 6 games last year.

Also , I saw your post about Bird and I still fail to see how he's better. He's obviously the better rebounder, but Defense, getting to the rim, Longevity, more Finals appearances and playing with less HoF talent at a time puts him above Bird on my list. If you don't see it, I understand completely, but we can agree to disagree.


Ive always said it, but Kobe and Duncan have surpassed Bird and Magic , Shaq too.

Kobe is not better than Magic...never was, and even with this points record err--3rd place, he isn't better than Magic now. I don't care how much Magic tries to downplay himself. He had 9 final appearances, 5 titles and likely the most dominant PG of one of the most epic dynasties. :facepalm

[Myth]

And Kobe not being as good as or better than Jordan doesn't make his accomplishments moot either. Lol.


All you guys who claim to be objective posters have a clear bias and double standard you only apply to Kobe. For example, people keep talking about the extra four years it took Kobe to pass Jordan. Yet, no one says anything about the lockouts and his injury that took him out all of but 6 games last year.

Also , I saw your post about Bird and I still fail to see how he's better. He's obviously the better rebounder, but Defense, getting to the rim, Longevity, more Finals appearances and playing with less HoF talent at a time puts him above Bird on my list. If you don't see it, I understand completely, but we can agree to disagree.


I have not used Jordan's accomplishments to moot Kobe's :confusedshrug:
And people don't mention the lockouts because Jordan played less games no matter how you look at it. Don't forget, Jordan also had 2 shortened seasons (2 of the seasons people count were 17 and 18 games, respectively). Just pointing out that there is a solid counter to your "example."

I'm not saying there isn't an argument for Kobe over Bird, but he was saying "the evidence is glaring" for him to be top 5.

Also of note, people mention Kobe's teammates being worse, but he also had worse competition. Magic and Bird repeatedly stole championships and MVPs from each other.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe is not better than Magic...never was, and even with this points record err--3rd place, he isn't better than Magic now. I don't care how much Magic tries to downplay himself. He had 9 final appearances, 5 titles and likely the most dominant PG of one of the most epic dynasties. :facepalm

Back when the West was almost as bad as Today's East.

I'd never try to downplay some of the Squads greatest runs, but lets be real here. If your Magic > Kobe ranking is predicated on that , then should I just start barking about how Magic could never even dream about going on some of the scoring Binges Kobe's gone on? While Kobe has had his own Magic esque games where he had 12 assists or more? Let's not even talk about Defense. No? Ok then, lets try to be rational here.

[HOoopCityJones]

I have not used Jordan's accomplishments to moot Kobe's :confusedshrug:
And people don't mention the lockouts because Jordan played less games no matter how you look at it. Don't forget, Jordan also had 2 shortened seasons (2 of the seasons people count were 17 and 18 games, respectively). Just pointing out that there is a solid counter to your "example."

I'm not saying there isn't an argument for Kobe over Bird, but he was saying "the evidence is glaring" for him to be top 5.

Also of note, people mention Kobe's teammates being worse, but he also had worse competition. Magic and Bird repeatedly stole championships and MVPs from each other.

:biggums: Come on bro.


00's Western Conference has been the most difficult to even reach the Finals the last 15 years. Ask KG and Dirk.

How exactly did he play weaker comp?

[Myth]

:biggums: Come on bro.


00's Western Conference has been the most difficult to even reach the Finals the last 15 years. Ask KG and Dirk.

How exactly did he play weaker comp?

In the early 2000s the competition was tough, but he also played 2nd in command to Shaq. The chips that Kobe got as the man were clearly against worse competition. The toughest competition for him in 09 was the Rockets, and they lost Yao part way through the series. Then he met up with the Magic. Besides, the West is well rounded, but the top of the class is what matters and there were no teams that Kobe faced that were the competition of either the 80s Celtics or the Lakers.

[Dro]

That's not the only thing and you know it...


Funny thing is everybody tosses out the word longevity like it's a bad thing...

it's not... even MJ one of the best to ever play the game couldn't hack it, he had to step away twice in his career for a breather... The dedication to coming back year after year after year is quite a feat in itself but to not only come back season after season but to push to get the most out of yourself mentally and physically is huge...
:biggums:

[WallIn]

Seems about right to me :confusedshrug:

Around 7-10 place.

[pauk]

Kobe is easily top 10.

[MastaKilla]

Bird has less rings, same amount of FMVP while Kobe has nearly doubled the amount of time Birds prime lasted..

Nikkas over here trying to bring Pau Gasol & "6&4" Bynum to bring down Kobe yet Bird played on the most stacked teams possibly ever

Kobes careeer has been better than Birds & it's not that close anymore.

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe is GOAT #5, Duncan GOAT #6. If either win another title their positions will change.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bird has less rings, same amount of FMVP while Kobe has nearly doubled the amount of time Birds prime lasted..


More MVPs, better stats, better skills and was the best player in all 3 of his championship runs, whereas Kobe was only twice.

Shredding these lame posts within seconds. Too funny. :oldlol:

[choppermagic]

are we really gonna give that much credibility to the same demographic area that picked Bush, twice. Leave it to the professionals

That demographic area happens to be the United States, the country where the NBA is based. Pretty sure that is the country the NBA is primary concerned about.

I dont think most basketball players care if they are not ranked top 5 in Ukraine, it it means the USA thinks they are.

[MastaKilla]

More MVPs, better stats, better skills and was the best player in all 3 of his championship runs, whereas Kobe was only twice.

Shredding these lame posts within seconds. Too funny. :oldlol:

You aren't shredding anything.

Half of what you said is opinion. Bird wasnt more skilled.

I'd love to see Kobe average 15 ppg in the finals while leading the team in FGA but only being the 2nd leading scorer and still be called "the best player on the team"

For every idiot like you that argues how good Pau was yet ignores the fact that Bird had a 25/10 PF next to him, plus a HOF center and the deepest team ever
GTFO with your double standards.

[stalkerforlife]

Bird is my dude, I love him. Bird is top 10 all time, easily. However, he is simply not better than Kobe Bean Bryant. Next thing you know, these Kobe haters will proclaim Pau > Mchale or Bynum > Parish or Fisher > Archibald, etc.

Bird played with some of the most stacked rosters of all time, including the 86 title team that many think is the best team ever.

Kobe is just much better defensively and that gives him the edge due to them being close offensively.

[ArbitraryWater]

You aren't shredding anything.

Half of what you said is opinion. Bird wasnt more skilled.

I'd love to see Kobe average 15 ppg in the finals while leading the team in FGA but only being the 2nd leading scorer and still be called "the best player on the team"

For every idiot like you that argues how good Pau was yet ignores the fact that Bird had a 25/10 PF next to him, plus a HOF center and the deepest team ever
GTFO with your double standards.


Okay, so in the opinion of a retard (you), who WAS the Celtics best player in 1981 if not Larry Bird?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You aren't shredding anything.

Half of what you said is opinion. Bird wasnt more skilled.

I'd love to see Kobe average 15 ppg in the finals while leading the team in FGA but only being the 2nd leading scorer and still be called "the best player on the team"

For every idiot like you that argues how good Pau was yet ignores the fact that Bird had a 25/10 PF next to him, plus a HOF center and the deepest team ever
GTFO with your double standards.

Never mentioned Pau.

However, everything I've said can be measured as tangible evidence. And no, Bird didn't just average 15 a game in those finals. We don't have all his numbers recorded via rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. What we DO KNOW though are two things. One, Bird played great defense and made Houston's swingmen (Robert Reid) work for their baskets. Two, he closed out the finals with 27/13/5 securing a championship, as the man, earlier than Kobe ever did despite him being gift wrapped talent from day 1.

But more importantly, prior to the finals and subsequent championship, Bird averaged over 25 a game w/ clutch performances against the Bulls (closed them out with 35/11/5/4) and against the Sixers, after being down 3-1, including games of 34/16/5, 32/11/5 and 23/11/5/5 (Game 7). Kobe could only DREAM of that kind of all-around production.

I can keep kicking you in the head, if you'd like?

[Euroleague]

Poll is stupid. He's at least top 5.

[stalkerforlife]

Poll is stupid. He's at least top 5.

Welcome back, bro. I missed your intelligence. No one around here knows Euro ball like you.

:applause:

[MastaKilla]

Okay, so in the opinion of a retard (you), who WAS the Celtics best player in 1981 if not Larry Bird?

Just ask yourself.

[Trollsmasher]

37% think he is TOP 5

tell me again why should I take this poll seriously

[Euroleague]

Welcome back, bro. I missed your intelligence. No one around here knows Euro ball like you.

:applause:

Thanks. Too bad the same exact group of idiots that got me banned before are already trying to get me banned again as soon I got to come back.

[MastaKilla]

Never mentioned Pau.

However, everything I've said can be measured as tangible evidence. And no, Bird didn't just average 15 a game in those finals. We don't have all his numbers recorded via rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. What we DO KNOW though are two things. One, Bird played great defense and made Houston's swingmen (Robert Reid) work for their baskets. Two, he closed out the finals with 27/13/5 securing a championship, as the man, earlier than Kobe ever did despite him being gift wrapped talent from day 1.

But more importantly, prior to the finals and subsequent championship, Bird averaged over 25 a game w/ clutch performances against the Bulls (closed them out with 35/11/5/4) and against the Sixers, after being down 3-1, including games of 34/16/5, 32/11/5 and 23/11/5/5 (Game 7). Kobe could only DREAM of that kind of all-around production.

I can keep kicking you in the head, if you'd like?

Bird scored 8 points in game 3, Celtics win by 20

Bird scored 8 points again in game 4.

Bird scored 12 points in game 5, Celtics win by 30

:roll: :roll:

And wtf are you taking about saying Kobe could never come close o that all around production? Are you insane?

I guess averaging 34/7/8 during the 2010 WCF really showed how poor Kobes all around game is.

[GimmeThat]

For what, being a global ambassader for basketball.?

[stalkerforlife]

Thanks. Too bad the same exact group of idiots that got me banned before are already trying to get me banned again as soon I got to come back.

My threads are getting deleted and I got banned for calling Kobe "alpha."

Giving these dudes the ability to ban is the worst thing to happen to ISH.

Now we're every other butt hurt site ran by agendas.

[stalkerforlife]

Bird scored 8 points in game 3, Celtics win by 20

Bird scored 8 points again in game 4.

Bird scored 12 points in game 5, Celtics win by 30

:roll: :roll:

And wtf are you taking about saying Kobe could never come close o that all around production? Are you insane?

I guess averaging 34/7/8 during the 2010 WCF really showed how poor Kobes all around game is.

Ether.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bird scored 8 points in game 3, Celtics win by 20

Bird scored 8 points again in game 4.

Bird scored 12 points in game 5, Celtics win by 30

Once again, we don't have his all-around numbers for the series. In game 1, Bird had just 18 points, but also 19 rebounds and 9 assists. That is the ONLY game aside from the title clincher, where we know his numbers in major statistical categories.

If what you're telling me is you want to ignore that, and his good defense, you got nothing.


I guess averaging 34/7/8 during the 2010 WCF really showed how poor Kobes all around game is.

Those numbers aren't anywhere as good or relevant as Bird's against the Sixers, a legendary powerhouse. Educate yourself, moron.

[MastaKilla]

Once again, we don't have his all-around numbers for the series. In game 1, Bird had just 18 points, but also 19 rebounds and 9 assists. That is the ONLY game aside from the title clincher, where we know his numbers in major statistical categories.

If what you're telling me is you want to ignore that, and his good defense, you got nothing.



Those numbers aren't anywhere as good or relevant as Bird's against the Sixers, a legendary powerhouse. Educate yourself, moron.

what were Bird's numbers against the 76ers.. post them

[MastaKilla]

Once again, we don't have his all-around numbers for the series. In game 1, Bird had just 18 points, but also 19 rebounds and 9 assists. That is the ONLY game aside from the title clincher, where we know his numbers in major statistical categories.

If what you're telling me is you want to ignore that, and his good defense, you got nothing.



Those numbers aren't anywhere as good or relevant as Bird's against the Sixers, a legendary powerhouse. Educate yourself, moron.

If Kobe had 3 straight games of under 13 points in the 09 or 2010 finals the Lakers get sent packing in 4 games, Birds team carried him through 3 straight games in that series

they were blowing teams out by 30 in the finals in spite of how little Bird contributed on offense

[FatComputerNerd]

Kobe is not top-ten all-time, unless you're looking primarily at individual accolades, # of rings, etc.

Probably somewhere in the 12-15 range IMO.

I base my rankings off skill, and value to the team as a player. I try not to look at # of rings, scoring titles, MVP awards and the like, but more-so who would I want on my team as a GM or coach.

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and nobody in their right might would question that, but I could easily think of ten players I'd pick ahead of him to build a team around.

[MastaKilla]

Kobe is not top-ten all-time, unless you're looking primarily at individual accolades, # of rings, etc.

Probably somewhere in the 12-15 range IMO.

I base my rankings off skill, and value to the team as a player. I try not to look at # of rings, scoring titles, MVP awards and the like, but more-so who would I want on my team as a GM or coach.

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and nobody in their right might would question that, but I could easily think of ten players I'd pick ahead of him to build a team around.

why they hell wouldn't you?

players just don't luck into rings while putting up 30/6/6 for three straight years.

and if you're going by skill, there aren't 4 players in NBA history more skilled than Kobe.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

His all-around numbers aren't available in that series, either. The three performances I highlighted were consecutive of each other, fighting a 3-1 series deficit. Yet again, something Kobe has never done.


If Kobe had 3 straight games of under 13 points in the 09 or 2010 finals the Lakers get sent packing in 4 games, Birds team carried him through 3 straight games in that series

they were blowing teams out by 30 in the finals in spite of how little Bird contributed on offense

The fact you think players can only impact a game by means of PPG output just shows how clueless you are.

[MavsSuperFan]

considering Kobe Top 5 is stupid, not considering him 7-10 is equally stupid

[MastaKilla]

His all-around numbers aren't available in that series, either. The 3 performances I highlighted were consecutive of each other, fighting a 3-1 deficit. Yet again, something Kobe has never done.



The fact you think you can only impact a game by means of PPG output just shows how clueless you are.

so you're sitting here boasting about how Kobe could never replicate the numbers Bird put up against the 76ers in 81 yet you can't produce the numbers..

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1972317/get-out-my-face-o.gif

[FatComputerNerd]

why they hell wouldn't you?

players just don't luck into rings while putting up 30/6/6 for three straight years.

and if you're going by skill, there aren't 4 players in NBA history more skilled than Kobe.

Kobe was very skilled at volume scoring while alienating his team-mates.

Also Rayp.

He did have some nice footwork in the post for a guard though, and a lethal fade-away.

[Heavincent]

Kobe is not top-ten all-time, unless you're looking primarily at individual accolades, # of rings, etc.

Probably somewhere in the 12-15 range IMO.

I base my rankings off skill, and value to the team as a player. I try not to look at # of rings, scoring titles, MVP awards and the like, but more-so who would I want on my team as a GM or coach.

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and nobody in their right might would question that, but I could easily think of ten players I'd pick ahead of him to build a team around.

Accolades and on court impact are synonymous with each other.

[Heavincent]

Kobe was very skilled at volume scoring while alienating his team-mates.


Led 5 Laker title teams in assists. Was always a great facilitator, especially from the post.

[MastaKilla]

Kobe was very skilled at volume scoring while alienating his team-mates.

Also Rayp.

He did have some nice footwork in the post for a guard though.

"Volume Scorer" has the same FG% as Ray Allen

"Alienates teammates" has led 5 championship teams in assist

next

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

so you're sitting here boasting about how Kobe could never replicate the numbers Bird put up against the 76ers in 81 yet you can't produce the numbers..

Another straw-man (yawns)

34/16/5, 32/11/5 and 23/11/5/5 -- post a series where Kobe averaged those ALL AROUND numbers, in succession. I'll wait.

[AlphaWolf24]

In the early 2000s the competition was tough, but he also played 2nd in command to Shaq. The chips that Kobe got as the man were clearly against worse competition. The toughest competition for him in 09 was the Rockets, and they lost Yao part way through the series. Then he met up with the Magic. Besides, the West is well rounded, but the top of the class is what matters and there were no teams that Kobe faced that were the competition of either the 80s Celtics or the Lakers.

yer way outta line...

"the man"...really...that's sooooo 2003......

dude was dropping 30 7 and 7 against the Spurs ( the real championship)

dude was disecting defenses lobbing to Shaq...and finding shaw in he corner

early as 2001 was widely viewed as the best all around player in the league with elite defense


let it go......let it go.....


Top 5 ... next

[FatComputerNerd]

Accolades and on court impact are synonymous with each other.

Not always.

Look at the 2003-2004 Championship winning Pistons.

Sure they had all-stars, but none of them were leading the league in scoring, none were serious MVP candidates, and none led the league in any major statistical category.

I think Ben Wallace being on the All-NBA Defensive first team was the only award someone from that team got.

[Euroleague]

considering Kobe Top 5 is stupid, not considering him 7-10 is equally stupid

Not in any particular order like best to last or anything, but just listing a top 5.....

Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Kareem, Magic

Yes, Kobe is definitely top 5 all time, and everyone saying otherwise is an outright troll and/or hater.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe is not top-ten all-time, unless you're looking primarily at individual accolades, # of rings, etc.

Probably somewhere in the 12-15 range IMO.

I base my rankings off skill, and value to the team as a player. I try not to look at # of rings, scoring titles, MVP awards and the like, but more-so who would I want on my team as a GM or coach.

Kobe is one of the all-time greats, and nobody in their right might would question that, but I could easily think of ten players I'd pick ahead of him to build a team around.


so Kobe isn't skilled?....

nearly every NBA player Kobe has played against recognizes Kobe is one of if not the most skilled players ever...

- Offensively and defensively....anyone who has ever picked up a basketball....shot around , played organized basketball, played at the highest level would tell you ....Kobe is skilled.....Jesus.

- How do you gauge value to a team?...what is the science?

How many other 6' 6" SG's won 5 Titles as the main facilitator and closer in crunchtime???


go ahead ...i'll wait.

[AlphaWolf24]

Kobe was very skilled at volume scoring while alienating his team-mates.

Also Rayp.

He did have some nice footwork in the post for a guard though, and a lethal fade-away.

lies...lies.....lies..

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Kareem, Magic

Yes, Kobe is definitely top 5 all time, and everyone saying otherwise is an outright troll and/or hater.

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/default/childplease.png

[FatComputerNerd]

lies...lies.....lies..


Settle down now, I was only joking! :D

[MastaKilla]

Another straw-man (yawns)

34/16/5, 32/11/5 and 23/11/5/5 -- show me a series where Kobe averaged those ALL AROUND numbers, in succession. I'll wait.

you're calling my argument a straw man when you can't even find the ****ing stats that you're sitting here claiming are better than Kobe's :roll: :roll:

so you're using those 3 consecutive games and you really don't think Kobe has 3 consecutive games in the playoffs close to that?

01: b2b games of 48/18/3/2/1, 45/10/3/ the game before those two he had 36/7/4

2010 WCF three straight games of 36/11/9, 38/7/10, 30/9/11

yeah but Kobe's never had that type of all around consistent play in the playoffs over consecutive games... right... good call...

[Euroleague]

http://hoops-nation.com/community/public/style_emoticons/default/childplease.png

No objective person would even consider Kobe not being top 5.

There is absurd trolling here, as usual.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you're calling my argument a straw man when you can't even find the ****ing stats that you're sitting here claiming are better than Kobe's :roll: :roll:

Yes. For those particular games, in this particular series, against that particular team.

Not very difficult.


so you're using those 3 consecutive games and you really don't think Kobe has 3 consecutive games in the playoffs close to that?

01: b2b games of 48/18/3/2/1, 45/10/3/ the game before those two he had 36/7/4

2010 WCF three straight games of 36/11/9, 38/7/10, 30/9/11

yeah but Kobe's never had that type of all around consistent play in the playoffs over consecutive games... right... good call...

All impressive, but...

The Kings that Shaq smashed (had ~43/21/4 the first 2 games, Lakers sweep) AND the no-defense playing Suns? That all you got? Like I said, you cant find any numbers from Kobe that compare to Bird's given the circumstances (leading a team on the brink of elimination, while dominating in every aspect of the game).

[MastaKilla]

Yes. For those particular games, in this particular series, against that particular team.

Not very difficult.



All impressive, but...

The Kings that Shaq smashed (had ~43/21/4 the first 2 games, Lakers sweep) AND the no-defense playing Suns? That all you got? Like I said, you cant find any numbers from Kobe that compare to Bird's given the circumstances (leading a team on the brink of elimination, while dominating in every aspect of the game).

I gave you exactly what you asked for, you lost.


34/16/5, 32/11/5 and 23/11/5/5 -- post a series where Kobe averaged those ALL AROUND numbers, in succession. I'll wait.

you didn't have to wait long to take the L

[AlphaWolf24]

Settle down now, I was only joking! :D


Oh...I saw you had green Bars .......that means you know and understand basketball....






hahhhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahha

[FatComputerNerd]

Oh...I saw you had green Bars .......that means you know and understand basketball....






hahhhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahha


:banana: :cheers: Rep appears to have just been disabled or I'd pos you.

I blame Euroleague.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I gave you exactly what you asked for, you lost.



you didn't have to wait long to take the L

Difference being, that I posted Bird's numbers within context, ie. close-out games/performances against legendary teams, and you counter that with...numbers that just aren't as impressive given the situation and conditions (sorta like Kobe's CAREER scoring outbursts against mediocre and bad defenses :oldlol:).

Nice work. :applause:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kobe is around 11-15, I have him at No.13 of all time, just like his draft pick. Kobe is also the third greatest SG, behind MJ and Jerry West.

[Rooster]

Difference being, that I posted Bird's numbers within context, ie. close-out games/performances against legendary teams, and you counter that with...numbers that just aren't as impressive given the situation and conditions (sorta like Kobe's CAREER scoring outbursts against mediocre and bad defenses :oldlol:).

Nice work. :applause:

:no: Kobe killed the Spurs and that was when they were nasty defensively.

[MastaKilla]

Difference being, that I posted Bird's numbers within context, ie. close-out games/performances against legendary teams, and you counter that with...numbers that just aren't as impressive given the situation and conditions (sorta like Kobe's CAREER scoring outbursts against mediocre and bad defenses :oldlol:).

Nice work. :applause:



Kobe could only DREAM of that kind of all-around production.

this was your claim, your challenge, you were proved wrong, twice.


against the Sixers, after being down 3-1, including games of 34/16/5, 32/11/5 and 23/11/5/5 (Game 7). Kobe could only DREAM of that kind of all-around production.

yeah.. great context.. sorry that Kobe played well every game of these series and it didn't have go down 3-1 in the two series :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Kobe was incredibly clutch in the 2010 WCF... incase you forgot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyCysXZnahk


34/16/5, 32/11/5 and 23/11/5/5

you claimed Kobe could only dream about that typ of all around production, not only was he able to dream about it, he was able to succeed it



36/11/9, 38/7/10, 30/9/11


lick your wounds and come back next time champ.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

this was your claim, your challenge, you were proved wrong,



yeah.. great context.. sorry that Kobe played well every game of these series and it didn't have to take it to 7 :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Kobe was incredibly clutch in the 2010 WCF... incase you forgot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyCysXZnahk



you claimed Kobe could only dream about that typ of all around production, not only was he able to dream about it, he was able to succeed it




lick your wounds and come back next time champ.

The original discussion began with YOU pointing out Bird's lack of points, and ME educating you on his other numbers not being recorded, while posting just a few of his stat-lines that are available.

I have repeatedly brought up the Sixers, holding them with high regard. That is why I posted his numbers. Following the theme of this discussion and having just an ounce of comprehension skill would have made you understand that by now.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:no: Kobe killed the Spurs and that was when they were nasty defensively.
True. I don't think Kobe played a better floor game than Bird did against Philly, though.

Kobe's 2001 playoffs were amazing.

[deja vu]

Kobe's borderline top 10 all-time. That's already a huge achievement for a chucker and former sidekick.

[ILLsmak]

:no:

top 10, yes, but definitely not top 5

MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Russel
Magic
Bird
TD
Shaq
Hakeem/Kobe
Hakeem/Kobe

I dunno, last 3 are hard.

Hakeem, Kobe, Bron.

Hakeem is like a holdover, I think. Sure, a great player, but he was just someone threw in who was recent. I think Kobe and Bron both are better than him despite his accomplishments. Kobe has too many rings to say no, and being so high on the all time scoring list. He may end up number 2. Bron is obviously gonna be in the top 10 unless he shits the bed. The only way he wouldn't is if he never won another ring or MVP. Which is possible but not likely. If he wins rings even without FMVP it's hard to say that he doesn't move definitively into the top 10.

-Smak