2008/09 and 2009/10 Los Angeles Lakers

[HOoopCityJones]

2009

Trevor Ariza

Shannon Brown

Kobe Bryant

Andrew Bynum

Jordan Farmar

Derek Fisher

Pau Gasol

Didier Ilunga-Mbenga

Chris Mihm

Adam Morrison

Lamar Odom

Josh Powell

Vladimir Radmanovic

Sasha Vujacic

Luke Walton

Sun Yue



2010

Shannon Brown

Kobe Bryant

Andrew Bynum

Jordan Farmar

Derek Fisher

Pau Gasol

Didier Ilunga-Mbenga

Adam Morrison

Lamar Odom

Josh Powell

Sasha Vujacic

Luke Walton

Metta World Peace



our last 2 championships...look at these rosters



what were these guys before and what are they now...just something to discuss. :confusedshrug:

[r15mohd]

Gasol/Odom/Bynum...name me a better front court :rolleyes:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Gasol/Odom/Bynum...name me a better front court :rolleyes:

Fisher/Farmar/Brown/Ariza/Artest name me a worse back court. :confusedshrug:

[r15mohd]

Fisher/Farmar/Brown/Ariza/Artest name me a worse back court. :confusedshrug:

way to deflect...not only in this thread, but others :no:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

way to deflect...not only in this thread, but others :no:

Are we supposed to ignore half of the roster?

[Myth]

2009

Trevor Ariza - Still balling well.

Andrew Bynum - Talented eadcase that spent his best years under Phil

Derek Fisher - Probably one of the most note worthy role players of all time

Pau Gasol - All-star before, likely an all-star now even late in his career. Criminally underrated by Kobe fans while on the Lakers

Lamar Odom - Has there been a guy with more pg skills/duties at his height? 6th man of the year. Bit of a headcase, but again Phil has a talent for controlling headcases.


2010

Same as above except swap Ariza with Metta

Metta World Peace - former DPOY, which is a rarity on the perimeter. Well rounded but obviously on the tail end of his career with the Lakers. Still, had some well timed shots and played his role well.


what were these guys before and what are they now...just something to discuss. :confusedshrug:

My take.

[Droid101]

Gasol/Odom/Bynum...name me a better front court :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, 6ppg/3rpg and 8ppg/7rpg in the two playoff runs, so overpowered. :rolleyes:

[r15mohd]

Oh yeah, 6ppg/3rpg and 8ppg/7rpg in the two playoff runs, so overpowered. :rolleyes:


when you single out...of course it seems mediocre at best. however, the question was collectively as a front court and do you have an answer as to there being one better than Gasol/Bynum/Odom?

a little reading comprehension goes a long way..for some, that is :rolleyes:

[r15mohd]

Are we supposed to ignore half of the roster?


is there a reason you ignored Kobe on your list? :confusedshrug:

[Myth]

Oh yeah, 6ppg/3rpg and 8ppg/7rpg in the two playoff runs, so overpowered. :rolleyes:

Bynum does get overrated, but considering he was in limited minutes and had 2 other serviceable bigs to help, he did make a big difference.

[Droid101]

when you single out...of course it seems mediocre at best. however, the question was collectively as a front court and do you have an answer as to there being one better than Gasol/Bynum/Odom?

a little reading comprehension goes a long way..for some, that is :rolleyes:
One third of the combination sucked. Odom wasn't as good as everyone makes him out to be. Gasol was (and is) very good.

So, 1 bad player, 1 decent player, and 1 good player.

I'm pretty sure a majority of frontcourts in the league could boast that.

[Jlamb47]

Gasol/Odom/Bynum...name me a better front court :rolleyes:

Bynum wasnt even a force in the playoff. Odom was alright and gasol was there second best player on their team. Besides that, their roster sucked.

[Heavincent]

when you single out...of course it seems mediocre at best. however, the question was collectively as a front court and do you have an answer as to there being one better than Gasol/Bynum/Odom?

a little reading comprehension goes a long way..for some, that is :rolleyes:

Great front court, but Fisher was one of the worst starting PG's in the league, and Artest was mediocre in 2010.

Good teams, but they weren't historically stacked or anything. Aside from Pau and Ariza, most of these guys are long gone.

[HOoopCityJones]

Bynum does get overrated, but considering he was in limited minutes and had 2 other serviceable bigs to help, he did make a big difference.

:roll:


Now it's confirmed.

You're the most blatant nitpicker Ive ever seen. You really tired to make Bynum's career sound respectable right now.

[Heavincent]

My take.

Bynum had his best season under Mike Brown.

[HOoopCityJones]

Bynum had his best season under Mike Brown.

This.

He was never a factor when we went to the Finals , except maybe in 2008 when we really needed him, with Gasol playing like Sharmin.

[r15mohd]

One third of the combination sucked. Odom wasn't as good as everyone makes him out to be. Gasol was (and is) very good.

So, 1 bad player, 1 decent player, and 1 good player.

I'm pretty sure a majority of frontcourts in the league could boast that.


i'm still awaiting you to name me a frontcourt that is better...stop side-stepping the question. there is likely 1 answer to this. let's see your basketball knowledge

[ArbitraryWater]

My take.

:applause:

-- lol at Droid calling Bynum a bad player.

And Odom was as versatile as it gets for his size.

[Droid101]

:applause:

-- lol at Droid calling Bynum a bad player.

And Odom was as versatile as it gets for his size.
Um, you people and your selective memories. He didn't have any game impact until 2011.

[dh144498]

:applause:

-- lol at Droid calling Bynum a bad player.

And Odom was as versatile as it gets for his size.


why does it matter whether he's good or bad? His numbers during those 2 years suggest that he was a non-factor.

[red1]

Pau and Odom were a great combo

[r15mohd]

seem to have forgotten the question Droid...Bynum/Gasol/Odom, how many better front courts have there been?

[Droid101]

i'm still awaiting you to name me a frontcourt that is better...stop side-stepping the question. there is likely 1 answer to this. let's see your basketball knowledge
Dwight/Gortat/Shard

Melo/Nene/Kenyon

Yao/Artest/Scola/Mutumbo

Off the top of my head. These are at the very least comparable to 2009 Bynum/Odom/Gasol. And those are frontcourts FROM THAT SEASON.

[HOoopCityJones]

Pau and Odom were a great combo

We ****ed up when we tried to go after CP3.

Looking back at the robbery that took place now, i'd prefer that chemistry between Gasol, Odom and Kobe right over our Chris Paul Fiasco. Hell, that dude is in a dream situation right now and can't do shit. Odom was coming off of his best year.

[MMM]

The Celtics best player in the 2010 finals run was Rondo and he was neutralized in the finals mainly by the length of the Lakers frontcourt. The season prior the Lakers frontcourt also made Howard look quite mediocre if I remember correctly.

If the Lakers had average frontcourts than they are probably non contending teams and I'm not trying to take anything from Kobe but the collective impact of the bigs on defense, rebounding, etc is more important to winning in the association.

[Heavincent]

Looking back at the robbery that took place now, i'd prefer that chemistry between Gasol, Odom and Kobe right over our Chris Paul Fiasco. Hell, that dude is in a dream situation right now and can't do shit. Odom was coming off of his best year.

Exactly. Put Kobe on the Clippers and they're probably going for the 3-peat right now.

Redick - Fisher (spot up shooter)
Barnes - Artest (wing defender/energy guy)
Griffin - Pau (post up threat/second option)
Jordan - Bynum (rim protector, finishes plays at the rim)

[Heavincent]

The Celtics best player in the 2010 finals run was Rondo and he was neutralized in the finals mainly by the length of the Lakers frontcourt. The season prior the Lakers frontcourt also made Howard look quite mediocre if I remember correctly.

If the Lakers had average frontcourts than they are probably non contending teams and I'm not trying to take anything from Kobe but the collective impact of the bigs on defense, rebounding, etc is more important to winning in the association.

Breaking news: Superstars need good teammates to win titles.

[ZeN]

Bynum does get overrated, but considering he was in limited minutes and had 2 other serviceable bigs to help, he did make a big difference.
Bynum contributed but he never made a difference. Not to mention that during those playoffs he was often a non factor due to being injured.

[MMM]

Breaking news: Superstars need good teammates to win titles.

I'm not the one trying to argue Bynum having no impact until 2011

Heck give me the Bynum that wasn't so focused on scoring and played his role over any other incarnation

[riseagainst]

Bynum was a non-factor. Why are people still trying to argue this?
:oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

The '09 & '10 Lakers were good but not great teams that imo benefited greatly from the west being at it's weakest since the Jordan Bulls. They didn't beat a single western team during that two year run that had even 55 wins. You put those same Lakers teams in the same conference 2-3 years earlier or later, they probably aren't winning two titles.

[JohnMax]

I did not know how good Odom was until I saw him on the Clippers 2 years ago. He protects the rim and plays the passing lanes.

Odom's defense is why the Clippers went on a 17 game win streak.

[Heavincent]

I'm not the one trying to argue Bynum having no impact until 2011

Heck give me the Bynum that wasn't so focused on scoring and played his role over any other incarnation

Uh, no. Bynum was easily better in 2011-12. He was putting 18/12 and still playing great defense. It's not even close really.

He struggled with injuries between 08 and 10. Didn't play at all in 08, and was basically crippled in 09 and 10, which limited him.

[Heavincent]

The '09 & '10 Lakers were good but not great teams that imo benefited greatly from the west being at it's weakest since the Jordan Bulls. They didn't beat a single western team during that two year run that had even 55 wins. You put those same Lakers teams in the same conference 2-3 years earlier or later, they probably aren't winning two titles.

11 out of the 12 teams they played between 08 and 10 won 50 or more games...so I don't think the competition argument works here. They were playing 50 win teams in the first round for ****'s sake. 2010 Suns were stacked, 09 Nuggets were great as well (Kobe being much better than Melo was the difference).

It's not like the East where you get 1st or sometimes even 2nd round byes.

[HOoopCityJones]

11 out of the 12 teams they played between 08 and 10 won 50 or more games...so I don't think the competition argument works here. They were playing 50 win teams in the first round for ****'s sake. 2010 Suns were stacked, 09 Nuggets were great as well (Kobe being much better than Melo was the difference).

It's not like the East where you get 1st or sometimes even 2nd round byes.

Don't worry he's talking from the ass. This is his "shtick".

Argue against both sides , hope for the best.

[r15mohd]

The Celtics best player in the 2010 finals run was Rondo and he was neutralized in the finals mainly by the length of the Lakers frontcourt. The season prior the Lakers frontcourt also made Howard look quite mediocre if I remember correctly.

If the Lakers had average frontcourts than they are probably non contending teams and I'm not trying to take anything from Kobe but the collective impact of the bigs on defense, rebounding, etc is more important to winning in the association.

this...that frontcourt disrupted any inside attack from the opposing team, length was too much to overcome, along with pretty good defensive skill. Even with a Gasol/Odom/Artest frontcourt, they were better than any in the league. too much downplay on the combo of the Laker frontcourt impact IMO

[red1]

Those teams had garbage bench players. Best version was the 09 team with dynamic wing play on offense and defense between beanbe and ariza, steady veteran play from fisher and a dominant frontcourt in pau and odom. Fisher's shot in orlando was pure veteran swag

[SouBeachTalents]

11 out of the 12 teams they played between 08 and 10 won 50 or more games...so I don't think the competition argument works here. They were playing 50 win teams in the first round for ****'s sake. 2010 Suns were stacked, 09 Nuggets were great as well (Kobe being much better than Melo was the difference).

It's not like the East where you get 1st or sometimes even 2nd round byes.

I'm not trying to say the conference was "bad" or non competitive, but only one team besides L.A. in that two year stretch won 55 games, and that was the 2010 Mavs, who won exactly 55 and got bounced in the first round. It's obviously not on the level of the east, but '09 & 2010 is pretty clearly the weakest two year stretch the west has had in the 2000's/2010's. It is definitely not as strong as it has been since 2011 or 2012

[LEFT4DEAD]

It was a common knowledge that the Lakers were the best team at the time just based on their dominant frontcourt, and its a shame that Gasol didnt win that FMVP in 2010. Kobe's 2nd FMVP is probably one of the worst all time, right there with Pierce's FMVP or Parker etc.

And add to that dominant frontcourt the D+3 specialists like Artest and Ariza, and one of the most clutch players of all time in Fisher, and you have a really good team to bail out chucker like Kobe.

[HOoopCityJones]

It was a common knowledge that the Lakers were the best team at the time just based on their dominant frontcourt, and its a shame that Gasol didnt win that FMVP in 2010. Kobe's 2nd FMVP is probably one of the worst all time, right there with Pierce's FMVP or Parker etc.

And add to that dominant frontcourt the D+3 specialists like Artest and Ariza, and one of the most clutch players of all time in Fisher, and you have a really good team to bail out chucker like Kobe.


:applause: Stay mad.

[sammichoffate]

It was a common knowledge that the Lakers were the best team at the time just based on their dominant frontcourt, and its a shame that Gasol didnt win that FMVP in 2010. Kobe's 2nd FMVP is probably one of the worst all time, right there with Pierce's FMVP or Parker etc.

And add to that dominant frontcourt the D+3 specialists like Artest and Ariza, and one of the most clutch players of all time in Fisher, and you have a really good team to bail out chucker like Kobe.The salt is real :lol

[LEFT4DEAD]

:applause: Stay mad.
:coleman: :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe did his thang, but dang the West was mediocre from 2008-2010... It's like God gave Kobe the perfect 3-year window with a stacked team that nobody else could keep up with.

I mean, Mavericks/Spurs dominate all up until 2007, vanish for 3 years during Kobe's reign... Back at the top of the West in 2011 :lol

It's just, let me say it like this, Superstars win in this league...

First thing I do, compare the supporting casts of the TOP 5 PLAYERS.

Kobe was the only one with great support... Dirk, Wade, LeBron = stuck carrying mediocre rosters into the playoffs.

Paul/Howard, the 5th guys, had it a bit better than that.

But no one had a top 10 player (Gasol), 20/10 guy with the best front-court in the league, the GOAT coach and good role players.

Only the Celtics contended in terms of stackedness.

And they beat them in '08, were eliminated from the race in '09 with the KG injury, and lost in a game 7 in '10 that couldn't have been any closer...

A game in which the C's took a 4-point lead into the 4th quarter...

4th Quarter:
Lakers: 21 FTA
Celtics: 6 FTA

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe did his thang, but dang the West was mediocre from 2008-2010... It's like God gave Kobe the perfect 3-year window with a stacked team that nobody else could keep up with.

I mean, Mavericks/Spurs dominate all up until 2007, vanish for 3 years during Kobe's reign... Back at the top of the West in 2011 :lol

It's just, let me say it like this, Superstars win in this league...

First thing I do, compare the supporting casts of the TOP 5 PLAYERS.

Kobe was the only one with great support... Dirk, Wade, LeBron = stuck carrying mediocre rosters into the playoffs.

Paul/Howard, the 5th guys, had it a bit better than that.

But no one had a top 10 player (Gasol), 20/10 guy with the best front-court in the league, the GOAT coach and good role players.

Only the Celtics contended in terms of stackedness.

And they beat them in '08, were eliminated from the race in '09 with the KG injury, and lost in a game 7 in '10 that couldn't have been any closer...

A game in which the C's took a 4-point lead into the 4th quarter...

4th Quarter:
Lakers: 21 FTA
Celtics: 6 FTA

As long as you feel that way about the east from 2011-2013, LeBron's Finals appearances, I see nothing wrong with this post. Of course you can nitpick and do these what-ifs w/ just about any player and championship in league history.

[sammichoffate]

Kobe did his thang, but dang the West was mediocre from 2008-2010... It's like God gave Kobe the perfect 3-year window with a stacked team that nobody else could keep up with.

I mean, Mavericks/Spurs dominate all up until 2007, vanish for 3 years during Kobe's reign... Back at the top of the West in 2011 :lol

It's just, let me say it like this, Superstars win in this league...

First thing I do, compare the supporting casts of the TOP 5 PLAYERS.

Kobe was the only one with great support... Dirk, Wade, LeBron = stuck carrying mediocre rosters into the playoffs.

Paul/Howard, the 5th guys, had it a bit better than that.

But no one had a top 10 player (Gasol), 20/10 guy with the best front-court in the league, the GOAT coach and good role players.

Only the Celtics contended in terms of stackedness.

And they beat them in '08, were eliminated from the race in '09 with the KG injury, and lost in a game 7 in '10 that couldn't have been any closer...

A game in which the C's took a 4-point lead into the 4th quarter...

4th Quarter:
Lakers: 21 FTA
Celtics: 6 FTA50+ win teams for each seed of the West, yeah they're all a bunch of ****ing scrubs plus LA. Lakers were just better than all the other teams, Kobe feasted on each back court that tried to guard him up until the Finals and no one wants to admit it. Gasol also did work alongside the role players like Odom and Artest. The Suns could've easily beat the Lakers in 2010 if Kobe didn't close in Game 6, stop disrespecting them :facepalm

[Heavincent]

Kobe did his thang, but dang the West was mediocre from 2008-2010... It's like God gave Kobe the perfect 3-year window with a stacked team that nobody else could keep up with.

I mean, Mavericks/Spurs dominate all up until 2007, vanish for 3 years during Kobe's reign... Back at the top of the West in 2011 :lol

It's just, let me say it like this, Superstars win in this league...

First thing I do, compare the supporting casts of the TOP 5 PLAYERS.

Kobe was the only one with great support... Dirk, Wade, LeBron = stuck carrying mediocre rosters into the playoffs.

Paul/Howard, the 5th guys, had it a bit better than that.

But no one had a top 10 player (Gasol), 20/10 guy with the best front-court in the league, the GOAT coach and good role players.

Only the Celtics contended in terms of stackedness.

And they beat them in '08, were eliminated from the race in '09 with the KG injury, and lost in a game 7 in '10 that couldn't have been any closer...

A game in which the C's took a 4-point lead into the 4th quarter...

4th Quarter:
Lakers: 21 FTA
Celtics: 6 FTA

If the West was mediocre, I'd love to know your feelings on the East from 2011-13.

11 of the 12 teams Kobe faced between 08 and 10 won 50 or more games. Mediocre my ass.

[stalkerforlife]

I've said it before and i'll say it forever...

Kobe carried the second worst roster in NBA history to back to back titles. (Out of all the teams that won b2b titles)

I will give Hakeem the nod for having the worst roster in NBA history for back to back titles, albeit a small nod.

THAT is a huge reason he's top 5 all time.

[ArbitraryWater]

As long as you feel that way about the east from 2011-2013, LeBron's Finals appearances, I see nothing wrong with this post. Of course you can nitpick and do these what-ifs w/ just about any player and championship in league history.


This is how I feel about that... The West definitely had more "good teams", considering they had more 50-win teams... But still, it's not like the East didn't have any.

2011: Heat/Bulls/Celtics/Magic
2012: Heat/Pacers/Celtics (50-win pace-adjusting for 82 games-66 game lockout season)
2013: Heat/Pacers/Knicks

The 2011 and 2012 East were strong conferences. Not because of their depth 1-8, but because they had 2 legitimate championship contenders besides the Miami Heat. Talking about real championship contenders who were actual threats.

In 2011 you had the Boston Celtics and Chicago Bulls. So 2 teams/threats much better to any 2008, or even 2008-2010 Western team.

The Heat were Underdogs (via SI) in both series'.

So their competition (East) was the strongest in 2011, but also, LeBron's cast was the strongest in 2011 aswell... Peak LeBron AND WADE, 2 DOMINANT ATG's in their prime. Which is why I hang on to my opinion of the 2011 Heat being the best. They beat their East opponents better than ever after (stronger competition), and ironically (well, LeBron choke) lost to their Finals opponent who was weaker than the 2 they would beat the following years.

So the 2011 East is harder to get out of than the 2008 West.

2012 East > 2009 West.

Again, you had the Celtics who were aging, struggling understandably to start off a tough 66-game lockout season... Then later got into their grove and finished the season on a 24-10 stretch.

Then you had the emergence of the Indiana Pacers with the FIFTH best record in the NBA...

THEN you had the Chicago Bulls, the team with the BEST record in the NBA, who sadly were out of the equation once Rose injured himself in game 1 of the playoffs (W).

1R: Knicks (Melo/Stoudemire/Chandler) vs. Jazz (Williams, Boozer)

Draw

2R: Pacers (Granger/West/Hibbert/George) vs. Rockets (Artest/Scola)

Pacers >>

CF: Celtics (Rondo/Garnett/Pierce/Allen) vs. Nuggets (Melo/Billups/Nene/Smith)

Draw

Finals: OKC (Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka) vs. Magic (Howard/Nelson/Lewis)

OKC >>>>

Again, the conference was harder to get out of.

Not due to overall 1-8 depth, but due to the other top contenders. There wasn't much of question for who'd make it in the West, the threats were the '08 Hornets/Spurs, '09 Nuggets, '10 Suns/Mavericks.

And adding the finals team / overall competition, again, tougher, harder, road/competition.

2013 East was weak, but the Heat were horrible in the post-season too.... As LeBron's competition got worse, so did his team/help... Statistically, 2nd option Wade with 16 ppg and 3rd option Bosh with 12 ppg on 45%, are one of the weakest supporting cast's ever.

2010 West >>> 2013 East.

The East had 1 top team in the 50-win Pacers.

The West had a GOAT level 1st round team (OKC) and a decent 2nd round opponents. Both rounds go to the West.

CF: Nash/Stoudemire Suns vs. George/West/Hibbert Pacers

Draw

Finals: Parker/Duncan/Ginobili Spurs vs. Rondo/Garnett/Allen/Pierce Celtics.

Spurs IMO.

2014 East was like the 2013 East, one top opponent in the Indiana Pacers, who this time around even owned HCA as they were the 1st seed.

Overall conference strength (by legit championship threats):

2011 East
2010 West
2012 East
2008 West
2009 West
2013 East
2014 East

Finals Opponents:
2014 Spurs
2008 Celtics
2013 Spurs
2012 Thunder
2010 Celtics
2011 Mavericks
2009 Magic

That's for their level of competition within conference + finals opponent.

OVERALL LEAGUE WIDE, I think the NBA hit a new level in 2014, as the West was stacked as never before, and the discreperancy between both conferences was ugly.

Even the 2012 and 2013 West > 2008-2010 West, considering you have the Spurs/Thunder/Grizzlies/Clippers and 2013 Warriors.

2011 West: Mavericks/Thunder/Lakers/Grizzlies

But the 2014 and 2015 NBA is loaded.

The East is fine this year as well with the Cavaliers/Bulls/Raptors/Wizards... at least its looking that way so far.


IMO the NBA should just stop the conference thing, ONE LEAGUE, 30 Teams, 16 make the Playoffs... Everyone plays each other twice (home/away), 58 games total... Considering the West is better nearly every year, it's just too unfair to them considering only one makes it to the finals.

Then in the playoffs 4 rounds in the best-of-7 system, all in the 2-2-1-1-1 format.

Just as it is now.

[Heavincent]

CF: Nash/Stoudemire Suns vs. George/West/Hibbert Pacers

Draw


I'll respond to the rest of your post in a bit, but WTF is this?

2013 Pacers just as good as the 2010 Suns? :roll:

Hell ****ing no.

Prime Nash and Amare with 40% 3 pt shooters literally all over the court...one of the greatest offenses of all time. The Pacers record was heavily inflated by a hot start at the beginning of the year playing against garbage competition. They were exposed after the all star break. They only made the ECF as a result of a weak conference. Put them in the West in 2010 and they're first round fodder...actually no, they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Paul George was their only GREAT player. Stephenson and West were decent, and everyone else ranged from sub par to straight up garbage.

The Suns torched the Lakers defense in 2010...the Lakers won mostly because Kobe went apeshit and increased his scoring and efficiency.

The 2010 Suns would shit on the 2013 Pacers.

[r15mohd]

I've said it before and i'll say it forever...

Kobe carried the second worst roster in NBA history to back to back titles. (Out of all the teams that won b2b titles)

I will give Hakeem the nod for having the worst roster in NBA history for back to back titles, albeit a small nod.

THAT is a huge reason he's top 5 all time.

2011 Mavs :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

I'll respond to the rest of your post in a bit, but WTF is this?

2013 Pacers just as good as the 2010 Suns? :roll:

Hell ****ing no.

Prime Nash and Amare with 40% 3 pt shooters literally all over the court...one of the greatest offenses of all time. The Pacers record was heavily inflated by a hot start at the beginning of the year playing against garbage competition. They were exposed after the all star break. They only made the ECF as a result of a weak conference. Put them in the West in 2010 and they're first round fodder...actually no, they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Paul George was their only GREAT player. Stephenson and West were decent, and everyone else ranged from sub par to straight up garbage.

The Suns torched the Lakers defense in 2010...the Lakers won mostly because Kobe went apeshit and increased his scoring and efficiency.

The 2010 Suns would shit on the 2013 Pacers.

Hibbert was also an all-star in 2013 and turned into prime Wilt Chamberlain against Bosh (Don't confuse the 2013 Pacers with the 2014 Pacers. The 2013 Pacers got better as the year went on).


Yeah but you forgot one side of the ball, the Suns were the #19 ranked defensive team, the Pacers were the best defensive team in the NBA and posted ATG statistics (one of the GOAT defenses).

So overall with the Suns' superior offense, the Pacers had a way superior defense... Draw seems fair to me :confusedshrug:

[stalkerforlife]

2011 Mavs :confusedshrug:

:biggums:

They didn't win back to back titles.

[Heavincent]

Hibbert was also an all-star in 2013 and turned into prime Wilt Chamberlain against Bosh (Don't confuse the 2013 Pacers with the 2014 Pacers. The 2013 Pacers got better as the year went on).


Yeah but you forgot one side of the ball, the Suns were the #19 ranked defensive team, the Pacers were the best defensive team in the NBA and posted ATG statistics (one of the GOAT defenses).

So overall with the Suns' superior offense, the Pacers had a way superior defense... Draw seems fair to me :confusedshrug:

The Pacers won less games in 2013 than they did in 2014, so that just proves my point if anything. They won 49 games in 2013, so they wouldn't have even made the playoffs in the 2010 West. Also, their record would have been worse if they played in the West, so they wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs in fact. I think they would win 44, maybe 45 games in the 2010 West. Not even close to good enough.

The fact that Roy Hibbert was an all star proves how ****ing putrid the East really was. He was literally putting Kwame Brown numbers.

This isn't close at all. 2010 Suns are significantly better.

[ArbitraryWater]

The Pacers won less games in 2013 than they did in 2014, so that just proves my point if anything. They won 49 games in 2013, so they wouldn't have even made the playoffs in the 2010 West. Also, their record would have been worse if they played in the West, so they wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs in fact. I think they would win 44, maybe 45 games in the 2010 West. Not even close to good enough.

The fact that Roy Hibbert was an all star proves how ****ing putrid the East really was. He was literally putting Kwame Brown numbers.

This isn't close at all. 2010 Suns are significantly better.

You can't deny how they blew up during the playoffs, though... I mean, it made sense, a team led by George/West/Hibbert/Stephenson can be great, and again, they posted one of the greatest Drtg in NBA HISTORY.

But if you're that good, you're bound to coast in a weak conference where a top 3 spot is a lock anyway.

But if you take the Suns, I won't have a problem with that.

[Heavincent]

You can't deny how they blew up during the playoffs, though... I mean, it made sense, a team led by George/West/Hibbert/Stephenson can be great, and again, they posted one of the greatest Drtg in NBA HISTORY.

But if you're that good, you're bound to coast in a weak conference where a top 3 spot is a lock anyway.

But if you take the Suns, I won't have a problem with that.

Suns won more games in a significantly stronger conference...I just don't see much of an argument here.

[pegasus]

There was nothing special about those teams other than Kobe and how he got the best out of all of his teammates. Except for Bynum since he was out with an injury or playing with an injury the whole time. People say Kobe is a ball hog, takes too many shots, etc., but there's no denying that most of his teammates have had their career seasons playing alongside him. There have been too many examples not to see the obvious pattern.

[sammichoffate]

There was nothing special about those teams other than Kobe and how he got the best out of all of his teammates. Except for Bynum since he was out with an injury or playing with an injury the whole time. People say Kobe is a ball hog, takes too many shots, etc., but there's no denying that most of his teammates have had their career seasons playing alongside him. There have been too many examples not to see the obvious pattern.Also, look at where they are now. Only Gasol and Ariza are still in the league playing at a high level. Farmar and Shannon Brown are worse role players while Bynum, Odom, Artest, Fisher, Walton, and Vujacic aren't even in the league anymore.

[Legends66NBA7]

Those were great teams. That Phil Jackson guy was pretty good too, you know...

And while they didn't win the title, I always thought the 07/08 Lakers were the most fun to watch after the Gasol trade.

[sammichoffate]

Those were great teams. That Phil Jackson guy was pretty good too, you know...

And while they didn't win the title, I always thought the 07/08 Lakers were the most fun to watch after the Gasol trade.He just fit so perfectly in the Triangle, it was a pleasure to watch that's for sure.

[MastaKilla]

apparently they were more stacked than the 96 bulls


are you trying to tell me the 09& 10 Lakers are more stacked than the 96 bulls?

:roll: :roll:



yes - i'll take pau gasol and healthy andrew bynum over scottie pippen and rodman any day... good thing the bulls had jordan to give them a true inside presence.

lamar and kukocs cancel each other out, although i still like prime lamar's overall contribution more than kukocs.

[Droid101]

AW taking losses.

East from 2000 until now has been weaker by far than what Kobe faced in the West. Especially during bran's run. If you don't want to acknowledge it, then you're being irrational.

[Droid101]

they posted one of the greatest Drtg in NBA HISTORY.

No they didn't.

Why lie? Is it fun?

[RagaZ]

Just lucky that Spurs were in a rebuilding phase

[ArbitraryWater]

No they didn't.

Why lie? Is it fun?

"taking L's" from who mother****a? Someone jelly?

"One of the greatest" isn't a factual thing you can despute, dummie :lol It IS statistically one of the best, ever.


Goddamn I shut this thread down though.. whoah