Why do we rank Bird so much higher than Lebron again?

[pauk]

..........................................Larry Bird...............................LeBron James.....................
MVPs......................................3....... ........................................4......... ......................
FMVPs....................................2........ .......................................2.......... .....................
Rings.......................................3..... ..........................................2....... ........................
1st All-NBA..............................9................ ...............................9*................. ..............
1st All-Defensive.......................0................. ..............................5................... .............
ROTY.....................................Yes...... ......................................Yes......... ....................
Scoring champion.....................0.................... ...........................1...................... ..........
All-star MVP.............................1................. ..............................2................... .............
NBA All-Star............................12................ .............................11*.................. ..............
DPOY.....................................No....... .....................................No(runner-up).................

STATS:

Points..............................21791 (24 ppg)..........................23733 (28 ppg)
Rebounds...........................8974 (10 rpg)............................6208 (7 rpg)
Assists...............................5695 (6 apg).............................5962 (7 apg)
Steals.................................1556 (2 spg).............................1475 (2 spg)
Blocks..................................755 (1 bpg)...............................692 (1 bpg)
TS%.....................................56.1%..... .................................58.1%.........
PER.....................................23.5 (#17).................................27.7 (#2).....

* (he will be an all-star & 1st all-nba teamer again this season)


As you can see, its very close..... and if there is anybody here holding an edge over the other.... im afraid to say it isnt Bird....

Bird & Reggie are my favorite players of all time, just loved them as scoring shooters, so dont get me wrong.... and even i will rank Bird a few steps above Lebron..... but when i think about it more and more, i dont even know why really..........

So can somebody please help remind me why Bird is ranked that much higher than Lebron?

Just so i can be as objective as possible, because right now the objectivity says otherwise..... that at the very very least Lebron should always be ranked right NEXT to Bird on anybodies list..... and infact, logically even over him would not be that bad either....

[tpols]

Bird & Reggie are my favorite players of all time

:rolleyes:

[pauk]

:rolleyes:

They are, i watched those two (and many else) before Lebron even dribbled a ball on a court maybe.... other guys games who i liked more (who were more of the favorites) than Lebron were also Penny Hardaway and Drazen Petrovic (my damn country man)...... :confusedshrug:

Now please, try not to derail, stick to the subject if possible.

[stalkerforlife]

Bird didn't quit on his team to chase rings in his prime...twice.

When will you Lebron fans get it? When will you understand that jumping ship twice is beta and tarnished his legacy greatly?

Y'all got some hard ass heads and convenient memories.

[GimmeThat]

People arent impressed about Kevin Durant(yet), since if you are talking about rankings, playoff success should be included.

[dannywpt]

Even in your comparison post Bran has asterisks

[LEFT4DEAD]

Bird didn't quit on his team to chase rings in his prime...twice.

When will you Lebron fans get it? When will you understand that jumping ship twice is beta and tarnished his legacy greatly?

Y'all got some hard ass heads and convenient memories.
Maybe because he had by far the most stacked team in the history of this league. Just guessin' :rolleyes:

[Chrono90]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic

Lol, cause Chris Bosh is on the level of Jordan or Magic

[LEFT4DEAD]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic
You dont know how idiotic this sounds. You are telling me that Wade and ****ing Bosh are on par with Jordan and Magic??? :wtf:

[stalkerforlife]

Maybe because he had by far the most stacked team in the history of this league. Just guessin' :rolleyes:

Or maybe because he's alpha and would never do something so cowardly.

That'd probably be the better guess.

[stalkerforlife]

Lol, cause Chris Bosh is on the level of Jordan or Magic

Wade was a top 3 player when Lebron quit on the Cavs. Bosh was a top 10 player and still may be.

It is relative to each era.

[tpols]

Maybe because he had by far the most stacked team in the history of this league. Just guessin' :rolleyes:

The Celtics won 29 games the year before birds arrival. 61 the next.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird didn't quit on his team to chase rings in his prime...twice.

When will you Lebron fans get it? When will you understand that jumping ship twice is beta and tarnished his legacy greatly?

Y'all got some hard ass heads and convenient memories.

Why would he leave a team that had players like McHale, Parish, Johnson, and Archibald?

[stalkerforlife]

You dont know how idiotic this sounds. You are telling me that Wade and ****ing Bosh are on par with Jordan and Magic??? :wtf:

Um, YES. It is relative to each era. Wade was a top 3 player in the world when Lebron quit and colluded. Bosh was top 10.

[pauk]

Bird didn't quit on his team to chase rings in his prime...twice.

When will you Lebron fans get it? When will you understand that jumping ship twice is beta and tarnished his legacy greatly?

Y'all got some hard ass heads and convenient memories.

"Jumping ship" doesnt matter when it is YOU WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT TEAM WINNING THOSE CHAMPIONSHIPS......... This is not Malone/Payton in 2004.... Lebron EARNED those championships, infact during that "Ship jumping" years he had one of the best 2 year peaks (if not the best) in NBA history....

"Jumping ship" tarnishing a career (as stupid as your logic is) means guys like Lebron and other top 10 guys like Wilt/Kareem/Shaq should not even be there simply because they achieved something after they changed their uniforms.......... Oscar, Garnett, oh my.... so many....

Now please, grow up (your brain) and come up with a better excuse/response.

[KirbyPls]

Bird didn't quit on his team to chase rings in his prime...twice.

When will you Lebron fans get it? When will you understand that jumping ship twice is beta and tarnished his legacy greatly?

Y'all got some hard ass heads and convenient memories.

Why would he? He had multiple hall of famers for essentially his entire career (and yes I realize he had to deal with a stacked East and the Lakers dynasty, but he had the squads to do so).

I can understand the arguments for Bird being higher all-time, especially for people (fpiii, Round mound, Shaq is GoAT) who put more emphasis on peak play than career totals and accolades, but I disagree that the chasm is as great as most make it. If you consider defense (and likely longevity) in your evaluation, the gap begins to shrink even more. Bird is a basketball savant and top 5-7 GOAT, but to act like he's on some other tier than Lebron, or that Lebron has no shot to catch/surpass Bird is pretty asinine.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Or maybe because he's alpha and would never do something so cowardly.

That'd probably be the better guess.
Stupid response from a stupid poster. Future neg... :cheers:

[Nash]

Wade and Bosh are Jordan and Magic, that is why they are about to miss the playoffs without Lebron.

[stalkerforlife]

Why would he leave a team that had players like McHale, Parish, Johnson, and Archibald?

None of those players were anywhere near top 3 like Wade was and maybe not even top 10 like Bosh was.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Um, YES. It is relative to each era. Wade was a top 3 player in the world when Lebron quit and colluded. Bosh was top 10.
And Bird, Magic and Jordan were no. 1,2,3 at the time.
Tell me again how Wade as a top 5 and Bosh as a borderline top 10 in 2011 were on par with Jordan and Magic...

[rlsmooth775]

None of those players were anywhere near top 3 like Wade was and maybe not even top 10 like Bosh was.

How are bosh and wade doing now

[Hey Yo]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic
Because there was no FA in the NBA until 1988 and Magic signed a 25yr, 25mil dollar deal his rookie year.

[stalkerforlife]

"Jumping ship" doesnt matter when it is YOU WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT TEAM WINNING THOSE CHAMPIONSHIPS......... This is not Malone/Payton in 2004.... Lebron EARNED those championships, infact during that "Ship jumping" years he had one of the best 2 year peaks (if not the best) in NBA history....

"Jumping ship" tarnishing a career (as stupid as your logic is) means guys like Lebron and other top 10 guys like Wilt/Kareem/Shaq should not even be there......... Oscar, Garnett, oh my.... so many....

Now please, grow up (your brain) and come up with a better excuse/response.

Oscar and KG aren't top 10, bad example. Shaq didn't jump ship to play with a fellow top 3 player and a fellow top 10 player. Kobe just happened to become great. I can't speculate on Wilt, but he's in the lower tier of the top 10, IMO.

[SouBeachTalents]

None of those players were anywhere near top 3 like Wade was and maybe not even top 10 like Bosh was.

McHale was undoubtedly better than Bosh. He was putting up prime Bosh's Raptors numbers while being the SECOND option on his team, with great defense to boot

[Deuce Bigalow]

Boiled down...

Bird: 3/5
Bran: 2/5

Bird of course didnt team up in his prime like Bran to get those championships.

[KirbyPls]

None of those players were anywhere near top 3 like Wade was and maybe not even top 10 like Bosh was.

McHale: career: 17.9-7.3-1.7; peak: 26.1-9.9-2.6


3

[stalkerforlife]

How are bosh and wade doing now

About to make the playoffs even though Wade is crippled and not top 3 like he was when Bran quit on the Cavs.

[stalkerforlife]

[QUOTE=KirbyPls]McHale: career: 17.9-7.3-1.7; peak: 26.1-9.9-2.6


3

[KirbyPls]

Boiled down...

Bird: 3/5
Bran: 2/5

Bird of course didnt team up in his prime like Bran to get those championships.

Nope, just had multiple hall of famers from '81 on.

[stalkerforlife]

Nope, just had multiple hall of famers from '81 on.

29 win team to 61 win team in Larry's rookie year.

Ever stop to think Larry enabled players around him to be great?

[G0ATbe]

Might be because Bird is top 5 all time and LeBald is top 45?

Bird won every last one of his accomplishments in a legit manner, and he actually had a skillset that didn't rely on travelling and Ray Allen 3's.

[aj1987]

The Celtics won 29 games the year before birds arrival. 61 the next.
The Cavs went from 61 wins with LeBron to 63 LOSSES without him.

[stalkerforlife]

The Cavs went from 61 wins with LeBron to 63 LOSSES without him.

Apples and oranges. I am talking about taking a losing team to 61 wins.

[KirbyPls]

The Cavs went from 61 wins with LeBron to 63 LOSSES without him.

Doesn't matter at all. All 61 wins were attributable to Bird alone and had nothing to do with McHale and Parish at all, whilst the Cavs drop-off was exclusively based upon the losses of goat-tier players and coaches like Mike Brown, Big Z, Delonte West, and almost-40 Shaq.

[aj1987]

Doesn't matter at all. All 61 wins were attributable to Bird alone and had nothing to do with McHale and Parish at all, whilst the Cavs drop-off was exclusively based upon the losses of goat-tier players and coaches like Mike Brown, Big Z, Delonte West, and almost-40 Shaq.
McHale and Parish weren't on the '80 Celtics. I get what you're trying to say though. Look at the coaching for instance.

I'm not denying that Bird is an all time great or a top 10 GOAT. Dude is definitely overrated though.

[colts19]

Doesn't matter at all. All 61 wins were attributable to Bird alone and had nothing to do with McHale and Parish at all, whilst the Cavs drop-off was exclusively based upon the losses of goat-tier players and coaches like Mike Brown, Big Z, Delonte West, and almost-40 Shaq.
Since McHale and Parish weren't on the team. It really didn't have anything to do with them. aj1987 how is any player in the top 10 overrated.

[KirbyPls]

Since McHale and Parish weren't on the team. It really didn't have anything to do with them.

I stand corrected, but let's not act like Bird didn't have great teams most of his career. Bird is a top 5-7 GOAT and I have no issue with people choosing him over Lebron, especially right now, but the team jumping argument is tired and ridiculous.

[turret]

http://www.9smag.com/Jimmy%20Chitwood.jpg

Bird: Ive already made it

Lebron: I like that picket fence thing with Love

[CavaliersFTW]

They are, i watched those two (and many else) before Lebron even dribbled a ball on a court maybe.... other guys games who i liked more (who were more of the favorites) than Lebron were also Penny Hardaway and Drazen Petrovic (my damn country man)...... :confusedshrug:

Now please, try not to derail, stick to the subject if possible.
You aren't fooling anyone, Lebron is your favorite player all time.

[aj1987]

Since McHale and Parish weren't on the team. It really didn't have anything to do with them. aj1987 how is any player in the top 10 overrated.
Most people have Bird in their top 5 and Shaq in the 7-9 spot. Honestly, people don't even have LeBron in their top 10, while having Bird in their top 5. Two players who have similar accolades (LeBron >>> if you count All-Def teams). LeBron > Bird when it comes to raw stats though.

Inb4 that bold text Bird stan dude's meltdown.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nope, just had multiple hall of famers from '81 on.
Lets look at Bird's first two championship teams multiple hall of famers.

'81 playoffs:

Mchale: 8.5/3.5/0.8
Parish: 15.0/8.6/1.1
Archibald: 15.6/1.6/6.3
Maxwell: 16.1/7.4/2.7

'84 playoffs:

Mchale: 14.8/6.2/1.2
Parish: 14.9/10.2/1.2
Johnson: 16.6/3.6/4.4
Maxwell: 11.9/5.2/2.4

Bird led in mpg, ppg, rpg, apg, spg, and fg% that year btw :applause:

[KirbyPls]

I can see (and agree) with Bird's argument over Lebron right now, but I cannot see Bird's argument over Duncan or Shaq at all.

[KirbyPls]

Lets look at Bird's first two championship teams multiple hall of famers.

'81 playoffs:

Mchale: 8.5/3.5/0.8
Parish: 15.0/8.6/1.1
Archibald: 15.6/1.6/6.3
Maxwell: 16.1/7.4/2.7

'84 playoffs:

Mchale: 14.8/6.2/1.2
Parish: 14.9/10.2/1.2
Johnson: 16.6/3.6/4.4
Maxwell: 11.9/5.2/2.4

Bird led in mpg, ppg, rpg, apg, spg, and fg% that year btw :applause:

Yes, Bird is a great, great player, but didn't Lebron lead in mpg, ppg, rpg, apg, and fg% as well for his first two titles?

[SouBeachTalents]

Lets look at Bird's first two championship teams multiple hall of famers.

'81 playoffs:

Mchale: 8.5/3.5/0.8
Parish: 15.0/8.6/1.1
Archibald: 15.6/1.6/6.3
Maxwell: 16.1/7.4/2.7

'84 playoffs:

Mchale: 14.8/6.2/1.2
Parish: 14.9/10.2/1.2
Johnson: 16.6/3.6/4.4
Maxwell: 11.9/5.2/2.4

Bird led in mpg, ppg, rpg, apg, spg, and fg% that year btw :applause:

How about the stacked 2013 Heat's playoff run

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html#all_playoffs_per_game

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes, Bird is a great, great player, but didn't Lebron lead in mpg, ppg, rpg, apg, and fg% as well for his first two titles?
All those except for fg%.

[tpols]

The Cavs went from 61 wins with LeBron to 63 LOSSES without him.

Yea and you would say the Cavs supporting cast sucks based on their low win total. Posters here are saying bird was gifted a stacked team.. When before he joined them they won less than 30 games. You're only making my argument for me by agreeing that win totals before/after show impact/help.

Larry of course grew with his teammates around him and made them better while LeBron jumped ship dead middle of his prime to play with another mvp candidate.

[aj1987]

Yea and you would say the Cavs supporting cast sucks based on their low win total. Posters here saying bird was gifted a stacked team.. When before he joined them they won less than 30 games. You're only making my argument for me by agreeing that win totals before/after show impact.
All I'm saying is that Bird and LeBron are equally good players. Bird is definitely NOT top 5 and is pretty on LeBron's level.

[Kvnzhangyay]

All I'm saying is that Bird and LeBron are equally good players. Bird is definitely NOT top 5 and is pretty on LeBron's level.

This, it's pretty much a tossup right now, but I do feel that lebron will define rely surpass bird by a respectable margin when it's all said and done

[SHAQisGOAT]

Love it when people name names and shit, talking about stacked and whatnot :lol

Celtics were 29-53 (2nd worst record) and just a franchise falling apart before Larry got there... Then with him, new coach and basically the same core roster, they improve to 61W (best record) and make the ECF.
As a sophomore, with the main addition of Parish (Cowens gone) who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, Bird leads them to a title.
Even in 1989 when he was out and Reggie Lewis stepped up for them, they dropped by 15W and got swept in the 1st round (look at what happened to the Bulls when Jordan 1st retired and was replaced by a "scrub", for example). Shit, even when he returned as a shell they got considerably better.

And he was playing in what most call the GOAT decade, the GOAT conference... He faced GOAT-level competition in terms of teams, top stars and even SF's.
Showtime Lakers, Bad Boys Pistons, Moses/Erving's 76ers, 80's Bucks, Jordan's Bulls, Hakeem/Sampson's Rockets... Kareem, Magic, Dr J, Jordan, Moses, Wilkins, Barkley, Hakeem, Isiah, King, Dantley, Malone, English, Moncrief, Gervin, Drexler, Worthy...
LeBron can't begin to **** with that :oldlol: And Larry was the main-man building a winning franchise (call it dynasty) from the ground up, in that era, never quitting on them.

Haters and ignorant people will only talk about stacked this and that :rolleyes: Shit like Bird wouldn't need to quit on his team because of this or that :rolleyes:
They were shitty before Larry got there, he instantly changed that and led a winning franchise, they were considerably worse when he was out.
He "made" most names y'all haters talk about, he never quit on them either.
Oh, and in 1992 the owner wanted Bird to re-sign, knowing he wouldn't be able to play but would still get payed... Larry said he knew what he was doing and wouldn't accept money he didn't deserve.
So yea, quit the bullshit, please.

To answer the OP, while keeping it short by now:

I don't rank Larry much higher at all (in terms of peak and career) but I definitely rank him higher...

Bird had a better peak/prime as an overall player, rather have him at their best.
Larry was a better shooter from pretty much anywhere, a better rebounder, a better pure passer, had a better post-game and better footwork, better soft-touch from close-range with both hands, better team (and post) defender, he hustled more and was mentally tougher, he had a higher basketball IQ, better awereness, easily a better fit with most strategies/systems, better at improving his teammates while letting them do their thing because he could dominate in more different ways, he was better in the clutch; so basically above in intangibles...

Plus, Bird would've done better(on most levels) in LeBron's "situation" than the other way around.
When you rank players you gotta look at everything, not just some selected "raw facts"... Especially when you got people who don't know what they're talking about :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Love it when people name names and shit, talking about stacked and whatnot :lol

Celtics were 29-53 (2nd worst record) and just a franchise falling apart before Larry got there... Then with him, new coach and basically the same core roster, they improve to 61W (best record) and make the ECF.
As a sophomore, with the main addition of Parish (Cowens gone) who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, Bird leads them to a title.
Even in 1989 when he was out and Reggie Lewis stepped up for them, they dropped by 15W and got swept in the 1st round (look at what happened to the Bulls when Jordan 1st retired and was replaced by a "scrub", for example). Shit, even when he returned as a shell they got considerably better.

And he was playing in what most call the GOAT decade, the GOAT conference... He faced GOAT-level competition in terms of teams, top stars and even SF's.
Showtime Lakers, Bad Boys Pistons, Moses/Erving's 76ers, 80's Bucks, Jordan's Bulls, Hakeem/Sampson's Rockets... Kareem, Magic, Dr J, Jordan, Moses, Wilkins, Barkley, Hakeem, Isiah, King, Dantley, Malone, English, Moncrief, Gervin, Drexler, Worthy...
LeBron can't begin to **** with that :oldlol: And Larry was the main-man building a winning franchise (call it dynasty) from the ground up, in that era, never quitting on them.

Haters and ignorant people will only talk about stacked this and that :rolleyes: Shit like Bird wouldn't need to quit on his team because of this or that :rolleyes: They were shitty before Larry got there, he instantly changed that and led a winning franchise, they were considerably worse when he was out. He "made" most names y'all haters talk about, he never quit on them either.
Oh, and in 1992 the owner wanted Bird to re-sign, knowing he wouldn't be able to play but would still get payed... Larry said he knew what he was doing and wouldn't accept money he didn't deserve.
So yea, quit the bullshit, please.

To answer the OP, while keeping it short by now:

I don't rank Larry much higher at all (in terms of peak and career) but I definitely rank him higher...

Bird had a better peak/prime as an overall player, rather have him at their best.
Larry was a better shooter from pretty much anywhere, a better rebounder, a better pure passer, had a better post-game and better footwork, better soft-touch from close-range with both hands, better team (and post) defender, he hustled more and was mentally tougher, he had a higher basketball IQ, better awereness, easily a better fit with most strategies/systems, better at improving his teammates while letting them do their thing because he could dominate in more different ways, he was better in the clutch; so basically above in intangibles...

Plus, Bird would've done better(on most levels) in LeBron's "situation" than the other way around.
When you rank players you gotta look at everything, not just some selected "raw facts"... Especially when you got people who don't know what they're talking about :facepalm


Another good post. Young Lebron and Kobe fans -- take notes.

[lilgodfather1]

Only fools would rank them far apart. They're equally worthy of a top 8 spot. Only difference is, one of them still has an opportunity to move up in the ranks.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Lets look at Bird's first two championship teams multiple hall of famers.

'81 playoffs:

Mchale: 8.5/3.5/0.8
Parish: 15.0/8.6/1.1
Archibald: 15.6/1.6/6.3
Maxwell: 16.1/7.4/2.7

'84 playoffs:

Mchale: 14.8/6.2/1.2
Parish: 14.9/10.2/1.2
Johnson: 16.6/3.6/4.4
Maxwell: 11.9/5.2/2.4

Bird led in mpg, ppg, rpg, apg, spg, and fg% that year btw :applause:

Exactly. People love to name names and shit, never talking about other "circumstances", never talking about teammates' level at a certain point, or how a team/teammates was doing before that player was there, even after or when he was out.
Bird "made" many names, he was the main-man in building that "dynasty" from the ground up in (arguably) the GOAT era, a team that was shitty before, without and after him.

I've mentioned how the Celtics were doing before Bird got there, when he was out and Reggie stepped up, or even when Larry was playing as a complete shell but, for example, looking at the 1984 post-season...
--> Most of Bird's teammates were playing well below their regular standards, while Larry leads the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% :eek: :bowdown: Find me another player doing that...

In those 1984 playoffs, all of his teammates combined were shooting below 46% while he was shooting 52.4% from the field while leading the team in PPG with 11 more than their next best (DJ who was shooting 40% FG).
Oh, and he leads them all the way to the title against some GOAT-level competition; King's Knicks, 80's Bucks, and at the end the mighty showtime Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes, Scott...
It wasn't against some shitty competition or something.

And that was after 2 seasons where the C's could never make the Finals, after a coach change too... He didn't just jump ship.

[Fire Colangelo]

LeBron will be higher than Bird when its all said and done due to longevity/etc.

Not yet though.

LeBron hasn't even played more games than Bird yet :lol

[ILLsmak]

he's not so much higher, but he's higher.

There isn't that much of a difference when you get into top 10.

-Smak

[Fire Colangelo]

I've mentioned how the Celtics were doing before Bird got there, when he was out and Reggie stepped up, or even when Larry was playing as a complete shell but, for example, looking at the 1984 post-season...
--> Most of Bird's teammates were playing well below their regular standards, while Larry leads the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% :eek: :bowdown: Find me another player doing that...



Did LeBron not lead his team in those categories in 12 and 13?

EDIT: Okay Haslem, Chris Anderson and Joel Anthony had higher FG% :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

--> Most of Bird's teammates were playing well below their regular standards, while Larry leads the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% :eek: :bowdown: Find me another player doing that...

In those 1984 playoffs, all of his teammates combined were shooting below 46% while he was shooting 52.4% from the field while leading the team in PPG with 11 more than their next best

On the "stacked" Heat, LeBron lead the Heat in points, assists, rebounds and steals in both 2012 & 2013, and in 2013 outscored his second highest scoring teammate by 10 ppg

[Lebron23]

They are both top 7-8 players of all time.

Bird is a 3x NBA Champion, 3x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP
Lebron is a 2x NBA Champion, 4x NBA MVP, and 2x Finals MVP.

If LeBron wins another Final MVP, and NBA title the comparison is officially over.

[stanlove1111]

The fact that you even bothered to list how many FMVPs they have won shows me you are probably too simplistic to even discuss this topic.


I don't know how anyone could have a real strong opinion about who is better between Bird and Lebron. They are extremely different players but have about the same value to a basketball team. Too hard to compare.

The only thing I know for sure is there had been a top 6 players for a long time now with Russell,Wilt,Jabbar,Bird,Magic, and Jordan but now there is a top 7 with Lebron. Besides Russell and Jordan being at the top there is really no way to rank the other 5 when compared with each other.

[ILLsmak]

They are both top 7-8 players of all time.

Bird is a 3x NBA Champion, 3x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP
Lebron is a 2x NBA Champion, 4x NBA MVP, and 2x Finals MVP.

If LeBron wins another Final MVP, and NBA title the comparison is officially over.

well I wouldn't go that far lol

-Smak

[Lebron23]

Larry Bird and LeBron James Playoff Stats


Larry Bird

23.8 ppg on 47.2 FG%, 10.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.8 pg, 0.9 bpg


LeBron James

28 ppg on 48.2 FG%, 9.4 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.7 pg, 0.9 bpg


Finals $tat$

Lebron James

27 games - 24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Larry Bird
31 games - 23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%

[daprunus]

Bird didn't stat pad, was more talented and he transformed the nba with his rivality with Magic. Lebron changed the nba with a tv show called the decision and the most remarkable thing in his particular pseudo rivality with Duncan is that he uses to jump the ship everytime Timmy D. rapes him in the finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird didn't stat pad, was more talented and he transformed the nba with his rivality with Magic. Lebron changed the nba with a tv show called the decision and the most remarkable thing in his particular pseudo rivality with Duncan is that he uses to jump the ship everytime Timmy D. rapes him in the finals.

Solid analytical argument

[3ball]

lebron plays the same way all the time like a robot - he gets his 26, 7, and 6 regardless of the circumstance.

this is nice when the waters are calm, but when the waters get rough, it becomes an exploitable disadvantage.

bird was the exact opposite... a chameleon i think someone called it.

look at him in the 1981 Finals without McHale - the Celtics needed him to bang, so he averaged 15.3 rebounds per game for the series... lebron would have had 26, 7, and 6.... maybe it would have been enough, maybe not... but bird's was enough.. we know that for a fact.
.

[Lebron23]

Solid analytical argument

Magic32

Both Bird and LBJ are rank higher than Kobe.

[SouBeachTalents]

lebron plays the same way all the time like a robot - he gets his 26, 7, and 6 regardless of the circumstance.

this is nice when the waters are calm, but when the waters get rough, it becomes an exploitable disadvantage.

bird was the exact opposite... a chameleon i think someone called it.

look at him in the 1981 Finals - the Celtics needed him to bang, so he averaged 15.3 rebounds per game for the series... lebron would have had 26, 7, and 6 - maybe it would have been enough, maybe not, but bird made sure his was enough.

Not in elimination games, he arguably outperforms even Jordan in those

[Lebron23]

Not in elimination games, he arguably outperforms even Jordan in those


Lebron is the greatest elimination performer in NBA History.

[3ball]

Not in elimination games, he arguably outperforms even Jordan in those
what a joke... Jordan never faced elimination games in the Finals.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Doesn't matter at all. All 61 wins were attributable to Bird alone and had nothing to do with McHale and Parish at all, whilst the Cavs drop-off was exclusively based upon the losses of goat-tier players and coaches like Mike Brown, Big Z, Delonte West, and almost-40 Shaq.

People wanna talk about shit they know nothing of :oldlol:

Again, Celtics were a falling franchise just before Bird got there - winning little, lowest attendances in their history, internal problems, Red almost gone - and they went 29-53 in 1979 (2nd worst record, with Larry already drafted so no tanking)...
Then in 1980 with Bird, same core roster (Cornbread, old Cowens, Tiny as a complete shell, Ford...) and a new coach (Fitch), they go for 61W and almost make the Finals... Bird was 4th in MVP voting, all-nba 1st, ROY, 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg... NO McHale or Parish yet.

In 1981, as a sophomore, Larry leads them to a title... Main addition was Parish (Cowens gone) who was already 27 and never viewed as all that.

And McHale was a rookie when he got there, only really coming into his own around 1984. DJ was past his peak when he joined the C's, viewed somewhat as a team cancer too, never even a very top player in the league... I could go on, on that subject (already mentioned Parish, too).
--> Let's not compare all of that (and more) to LeBron quitting on his team to join two already established stars in the league, one a top5 player (at least), another a top10 player; all three of them at the height of their powers.

And, one more time, Larry was playing in what most call the GOAT era (and GOAT conference), stacked in terms of teams, top stars and even SF's. Look at the names with their respective games and teams, shit's crazy, look at what he/they went up against... Bron can't begin to **** with it, regarding that too.

Oh, and Pauk... Stop acting like LeBron ain't your favorite player, by FAR
:roll:

[3ball]

Larry Bird and LeBron James Playoff Stats


Larry Bird

23.8 ppg on 47.2 FG%, 10.3 rpg, 6.5 apg, 1.8 pg, 0.9 bpg


LeBron James

28 ppg on 48.2 FG%, 9.4 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.7 pg, 0.9 bpg


Finals $tat$

Lebron James

27 games - 24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Larry Bird
31 games - 23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%


Bird's stats are clearly better here.

and the stats don't even include Bird's ability to seal any leaks in the boat so his team could win.

Lebron gets his 25, 7, and 6 no matter what like a robot, but a lot of times at the highest level of competition, that isn't what is needed, and such an approach can be exploited.

Bird's perseverance in the 1981 Finals without Mchale is a great example of how he played in whatever fashion would seal enough leaks in the boat so his team could win.

[fpliii]

Bird's stats are clearly better here.

and the stats don't even include Bird's ability to seal any leaks in the boat so his team could win.

Lebron gets his 26, 6, and 7 no matter what like a robot, but a lot of times at the highest level of competition, that isn't what is needed, and such an approach can be exploited.

Bird's perseverance in the 1981 Finals without Mchale is a great example.
Is Bird the GOAT off-ball player in your opinion?

[Lebron23]

Stop it Bruceblitz. LBJ have better stats than Bird in a slower pace era. And they both played with hall of famers, but LBJ still have better numbers.

[dannywpt]

Bird & Reggie are my favorite players of all time, just loved them as scoring shooters, so dont get me wrong.... and even i will rank Bird a few steps above Lebron..... but when i think about it more and more, i dont even know why really..........

So can somebody please help remind me why Bird is ranked that much higher than Lebron?

You have to be ****ing insane to try make this a serious topic :roll:

[3ball]

Is Bird the GOAT off-ball player in your opinion?
i go with jordan - nobody did the stuff he did off-ball.. but bird might be #2

[SHAQisGOAT]

Is Bird the GOAT off-ball player in your opinion?

Imo, taking everything into account, yes.

That's only on the offensive side though (but he was also very good on the defensive end).

[fpliii]

i go with jordan - nobody did the stuff he did off-ball.. but bird might be #2

Imo, taking everything into account, yes.

That's only on the offensive side though (but he was also very good on the defensive end).
Cool. Who are the rest of your top 5s (off-ball, offense only)? Does Reggie make the cut?

[3ball]

Cool. Who are the rest of your top 5s (off-ball, offense only)? Does Reggie make the cut?
nah.. reggie's off-ball play was more one-dimensional, although he was GOAT at the specific things he did off-ball.

ditto on guys like rip hamilton.

the best off-ball players for me are guys that were tremendous all-round scorers while playing off-ball - alex english comes to mind, james worthy.

[Micku]

You can flip a coin on the two. You won't see any argument for me if I hear someone say LBJ>Bird or Bird>Bron. I rank in tiers, so they belong in the same tier.

They are differences between the two. I do think that Bird allowed stars to play their own game better than LBJ. Bird plays more off the ball than LBJ, and I think that allows the teammates to be more effective than LBJ playing the point.

[La Frescobaldi]

Lebron is the greatest elimination performer in NBA History.
No. Sam Jones has that accolade right in his pocket and he's keeping it at this point.

*************************************

OP it just comes down to which style you need on your team.

And other than that... what style you like to watch. Birds games were almost always eye candy while James games are usually uglier than dirt.

But of course James wrecked his own legacy forever by spending years as a disgusting flopper. Dismal fact; but he chose to drag his own name in the muck.

[SouBeachTalents]

No. Sam Jones has that accolade right in his pocket and he's keeping it at this point.

You have his numbers in elimination games?

[La Frescobaldi]

You have his numbers in elimination games?
You mean in addition to the 10 championship trophies while never losing a Finals?

Russell talking about 24.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY4EhnRgBWU

[Micku]

nah.. reggie's off-ball play was more one-dimensional, although he was GOAT at the specific things he did off-ball.

ditto on guys like rip hamilton.

the best off-ball players for me are guys that were tremendous all-round scorers while playing off-ball - alex english comes to mind, james worthy.

Good mention. James Worthy was great from what I seen.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Cool. Who are the rest of your top 5s (off-ball, offense only)? Does Reggie make the cut?

Hmm, I don't know, it's hard to pick a definitive top5...

- You got players who are great at coming off of screens to hit jumpers, dudes that really make a living off of it. Players like Reggie, Ray-Ray, even Dale Ellis and whoever else, Rip Hamilton...
- You got bigs who are great at setting screens/picks, at rolling to the basket, establishing position for rebounds or even to post-up, etc. Best example is Bill Walton, and he was also great at passing right after he received the ball (which is major too), so on...
- Jordan was great at cutting, he was very good when it came to hitting his J off of screens/curls, and more... he developed into a great off-ball player.
- You got Dantley who was major off-ball in terms of getting to his sweet spots while avoiding his defender, getting great position down-low to score some "easy" baskets, moving really well along the baseline, getting in and off the paint (to avoid the 3-seconds, waiting for a good look)...
- Dr J was a terrific cutter, really knew how to move and use his best strengths off ball.
- Pistol Pete was a very smart off-ball player (offensively), he was great at "using" teammates/opponents bodies to get some shots off, in many different ways; things like getting the ball directly off of his teammate's hands while at the same time that same teammate set the screen, and other stuff of that nature.

Bird was (at least) good at most of those aspects, that's why he's the GOAT off-ball offensive player imo.

So yea, you got dudes like Bird, Miller, Walton, Jordan, Allen, Dantley, Maravich, Hamilton, Erving, Hondo (who never stopped moving/running), Karl Malone, Ellis, Worthy... Players like that are the best to me, and I know I'm forgetting a few more.

[Blue&Orange]

All I'm saying is that Bird and LeBron are equally good players. Bird is definitely NOT top 5 and is pretty on LeBron's level.
:lol No they are not retard :lol You give Lebron Bird's Athleticism and Lebron doesn't even make the NBA. Bird is leaps and bounds better BASKETBALL player.

Can Lebron run faster and jump higher, sure, bless those PEDS, we are talking BASKETBALL here.

When will BASKETBALL SKILLS matter on a BASKETBALL TOP10 i wonder. lol


People comparing LeLayup with Bird, please child.

[Blue&Orange]

And Bird was a boss, he said he would do something he did it, Lebron everytime he puts pressure on himself he fails miserably.

And Bird had REAL competition, where's Lebron competition? Too old, too young, injured or playing on his team. Lebron's competition = Paul George lol

[plowking]

:lol No they are not retard :lol You give Lebron Bird's Athleticism and Lebron doesn't even make the NBA. Bird is leaps and bounds better BASKETBALL player.

Can Lebron run faster and jump higher, sure, bless those PEDS, we are talking BASKETBALL here.

When will BASKETBALL SKILLS matter on a BASKETBALL TOP10 i wonder. lol


People comparing LeLayup with Bird, please child.

So take away a large part of what makes a player great and see how he would do? Oh, I wonder.

Take away Wilt's or Jordan's athletic ability, I wonder if they are still the best? What a dumb argument.

[Blue&Orange]

So take away a large part of what makes a player great and see how he would do? Oh, I wonder.

Take away Wilt's or Jordan's athletic ability, I wonder if they are still the best? What a dumb argument.
IT's not the argument that is dumb, it's you dumbass. If athleticism is a large part of what makes a player great, that should a MINUS not a plus when making BASKETBALL TOP10 lists.


Jordan is the goat because he is the perfect mixture of skills and athleticism.

Maybe this is the forum for you
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/forums/

[jzek]

Game 7, 5 seconds left. Who would you want to take the last shot?

There's your answer why Bird is ranked ahead of LeBron.

[gts]

IT's not the argument that is dumb, it's you dumbass. If athleticism is a large part of what makes a player great, that should a MINUS not a plus when making BASKETBALL TOP10 lists.


Jordan is the goat because he is the perfect mixture of skills and athleticism.

Maybe this is the forum for you
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/forums/

You were laughing when you typed that weren't you?

you can say it's a minus when the guys loses that athletic ability but until that day it's very much a part of the players resume


that being said, Bird was a much smarter player, better ball handler and cut throat...

[plowking]

IT's not the argument that is dumb, it's you dumbass. If athleticism is a large part of what makes a player great, that should a MINUS not a plus when making BASKETBALL TOP10 lists.


Jordan is the goat because he is the perfect mixture of skills and athleticism.

Maybe this is the forum for you
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/forums/

Right. We should negate athletic traits for the athletes we are ranking and judging. Makes sense.

Some people on here... I just can't... :facepalm

[Milbuck]

:lol No they are not retard :lol You give Lebron Bird's Athleticism and Lebron doesn't even make the NBA. Bird is leaps and bounds better BASKETBALL player.

Can Lebron run faster and jump higher, sure, bless those PEDS, we are talking BASKETBALL here.

When will BASKETBALL SKILLS matter on a BASKETBALL TOP10 i wonder. lol


People comparing LeLayup with Bird, please child.
And this is why people clown Knicks fans so much.

With this retarded logic, would you also consider Nash a better player than Lebron?

[stalkerforlife]

People wanna talk about shit they know nothing of :oldlol:

Again, Celtics were a falling franchise just before Bird got there - winning little, lowest attendances in their history, internal problems, Red almost gone - and they went 29-53 in 1979 (2nd worst record, with Larry already drafted so no tanking)...
Then in 1980 with Bird, same core roster (Cornbread, old Cowens, Tiny as a complete shell, Ford...) and a new coach (Fitch), they go for 61W and almost make the Finals... Bird was 4th in MVP voting, all-nba 1st, ROY, 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg... NO McHale or Parish yet.

In 1981, as a sophomore, Larry leads them to a title... Main addition was Parish (Cowens gone) who was already 27 and never viewed as all that.

And McHale was a rookie when he got there, only really coming into his own around 1984. DJ was past his peak when he joined the C's, viewed somewhat as a team cancer too, never even a very top player in the league... I could go on, on that subject (already mentioned Parish, too).
--> Let's not compare all of that (and more) to LeBron quitting on his team to join two already established stars in the league, one a top5 player (at least), another a top10 player; all three of them at the height of their powers.

And, one more time, Larry was playing in what most call the GOAT era (and GOAT conference), stacked in terms of teams, top stars and even SF's. Look at the names with their respective games and teams, shit's crazy, look at what he/they went up against... Bron can't begin to **** with it, regarding that too.

Oh, and Pauk... Stop acting like LeBron ain't your favorite player, by FAR
:roll:


Some of the strongest ether I have ever "witnessed."

[dubeta]

Pauk is correct, looking both at stats and accomplishments, and even when factoring that LeBron had a great team for 4 years compared to Birds 12, and LeBron still nearly has the same ring count.


You guys want to know the real unfiltered truth why people dont rank LeBron on par with Bird if not above? Because in doing so would subconsciously acknowledge that LeBron is better all time than Kobe, since no objective person has Kobe over Bird.

So when you see people rank Bird above LeBron its really only to protect Kobe's weak legacy over LeBron

[Mr. Jabbar]

People wanna talk about shit they know nothing of :oldlol:

Again, Celtics were a falling franchise just before Bird got there - winning little, lowest attendances in their history, internal problems, Red almost gone - and they went 29-53 in 1979 (2nd worst record, with Larry already drafted so no tanking)...
Then in 1980 with Bird, same core roster (Cornbread, old Cowens, Tiny as a complete shell, Ford...) and a new coach (Fitch), they go for 61W and almost make the Finals... Bird was 4th in MVP voting, all-nba 1st, ROY, 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg... NO McHale or Parish yet.

In 1981, as a sophomore, Larry leads them to a title... Main addition was Parish (Cowens gone) who was already 27 and never viewed as all that.

And McHale was a rookie when he got there, only really coming into his own around 1984. DJ was past his peak when he joined the C's, viewed somewhat as a team cancer too, never even a very top player in the league... I could go on, on that subject (already mentioned Parish, too).
--> Let's not compare all of that (and more) to LeBron quitting on his team to join two already established stars in the league, one a top5 player (at least), another a top10 player; all three of them at the height of their powers.

And, one more time, Larry was playing in what most call the GOAT era (and GOAT conference), stacked in terms of teams, top stars and even SF's. Look at the names with their respective games and teams, shit's crazy, look at what he/they went up against... Bron can't begin to **** with it, regarding that too.

Oh, and Pauk... Stop acting like LeBron ain't your favorite player, by FAR
:roll:


http://s12.postimg.org/6x4krt3ml/faint.png

[GimmeThat]

because on one end, we have someone who may have grown up being possibly expose to hardcore drugs more than anything else.

on the other, oil and shitty liquor?

[Beastmode88]

Larry had to play against the bad boys and the lakers... who the fcuk did lebron have to beat? Okc in diapers and the old man spurs? :facepalm

[stalkerforlife]

http://s12.postimg.org/6x4krt3ml/faint.png

:roll:

[JohnFreeman]

I don't rank Bird higher

[dreamwarrior]

Imagine how good Bird would've been with HGH.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

:rolleyes:

:oldlol: He's been saying that shit for years trying to convince himself

[Kvnzhangyay]

Game 7, 5 seconds left. Who would you want to take the last shot?

There's your answer why Bird is ranked ahead of LeBron.

Problem is with Lebron instead of Bird you would be winning by more so you wouldn't be in need of a last second shot

[3ball]

Problem is with Lebron instead of Bird you would be winning by more so you wouldn't be in need of a last second shot
the spurs didn't beat Miami in 2014 based on talent - they won by having a more cohesive team, superior strategy, and playing a superior brand of basketball than lebron-ball.

so honestly, i don't know what you are talking about here... oh wait i do know - you're talking pure poppycock.

[dubeta]

the spurs didn't beat Miami in 2014 based on talent - they won by having a more cohesive team, superior strategy, and playing a superior brand of basketball than lebron-ball.

so honestly, i don't know what you are talking about here... oh wait i do know - you're talking pure poppycock.

LeBron Ball

Cavs win 61 games

LeBron leaves

Cavs win 19 games



Jordan Ball

Bulls win 57 games

Jordan leaves

Bulls win 55 games


LeBron ball carries teams to victory, and improves eveyones games

Jordan ball doesnt impact a team (ie. wins) Jordan gets his stats but with virtually no improvement to his team, he is basically a non-factor on the court

[Kvnzhangyay]

the spurs didn't beat Miami in 2014 based on talent - they won by having a more cohesive team, superior strategy, and playing a superior brand of basketball than lebron-ball.

so honestly, i don't know what you are talking about here... oh wait i do know - you're talking pure poppycock.

You obviously don't, thats why you lose every debate you get into :facepalm

Since when did I mention the Spurs?

No player could have replaced Lebron and won with that Heat team vs that Spurs team, not even the GOAT :facepalm

[Bandito]

Op taking L's everyday...

[daprunus]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic

[No_Look604]

Lebron is a bichboy! Simple.

[3ball]

LeBron Ball

Cavs win 61 games

LeBron leaves

Cavs win 19 games


in 2011, the Cavs didn't just lose Lebron, they lost 2 other starters (Mo Williams and Shaq) plus Varejao missed the year with injury, Zydrunas went to Miami, and Delonte got arrested for the gun thing.

so their entire team was gutted, not just Lebron.

Also, those 2009 and 2010 Cavs teams were very deep, and favored to win the East... Lebron underachieved both years, and again in 2011... Otoh, Jordan has never underachieved on any team he's been on.





Jordan Ball

Bulls win 57 games

Jordan leaves

Bulls win 55 games


The Spurs have shown what you can accomplish with role players if you are playing optimally - and this is all the 1994 Bulls were doing - they lost Jordan but still maintained their strategic advantage on the rest of the league.

Given the rule structure in place at the time and the resulting brand of basketball being played, the triangle was the most optimal system to run, just like the Spurs offense is the best offense under today's rule structure and resulting brand of basketball.. Playing with a better strategy allows you to win with scrubs.

Plus, unlike the 2011 Cavs who had their entire team gutted, the 1994 Bulls actually added Kukocs and had no injuries.

Think about it this way - going from a 3-peat champion and one of the greatest teams of all time, to a 2nd-round exit team is a larger drop than the going from conference finals to lottery.
.

[La Frescobaldi]

in 2011, the Cavs didn't just lose Lebron, they lost 2 other starters (Mo Williams and Shaq) plus Varejao missed the year with injury, Zydrunas went to Miami, and Delonte got arrested for the gun thing.

so their entire team was gutted, not just Lebron.

Also, those 2009 and 2010 Cavs teams were very deep, and favored to win the East... Lebron underachieved both years, and again in 2011... Otoh, Jordan has never underachieved on any team he's been on.



The Spurs have shown what you can accomplish with role players if you are playing optimally - and this is all the 1994 Bulls were doing - they lost Jordan but still maintained their strategic advantage on the rest of the league.

Given the rule structure in place at the time and the resulting brand of basketball being played, the triangle was the most optimal system to run, just like the Spurs offense is the best offense under today's rule structure and resulting brand of basketball.. Playing with a better strategy allows you to win with scrubs.

Plus, unlike the 2011 Cavs who had their entire team gutted, the 1994 Bulls actually added Kukocs and had no injuries.

Think about it this way - going from a 3-peat champion and one of the greatest teams of all time, to a 2nd-round exit team is a larger drop than the going from conference finals to lottery.
.

now dubeta is laying on the same cot as Pauk in that resuscitation picture.
he's getting hauled off the field with the smelling salts under his schnozz.

anybody notice those two do spend a lot of time getting trucked?

[Dresta]

Because Bird was just a better basketball player. Lebron better at promoting himself.

[tobethdope]

Why do we rank Bird so much higher than Lebron again?

coz we saw both play, stats are overrated

bird is on another level than bron, sure he is probably as valuable or even more during reg season, but he is barely half the bball player that bird was

[ILLsmak]

Stop it Bruceblitz. LBJ have better stats than Bird in a slower pace era. And they both played with hall of famers, but LBJ still have better numbers.

As I've said before... about Bird, who makes the HOF without him? You can say Bill Walton, but he was already good before. Maybe not HoF level at that point. McHale? Maybe.

Wade was a HoFer already, altho slightly on the down-side.

Factor in that Bron's teams were by far the best and Birds, well, in terms of talent... were not.

Bron formed a superteam in what was already a weak era, making the East even weaker. As I said before, no dynasty teams. No real contenders, even. If you had to name one team that would be in the conference finals for sure, it'd be a guess.

Shit like that matters. Wins are great but it's a competitive sport, so wins against competition matter. The idea for guys like Bird and Bron is to be the best ever, to cement themselves as a top guy in history. In that way, you have to take context into account.

Bron didn't have to face any prime top 10 players during his winning. Bird did.

-Smak

[aj1987]

:lol No they are not retard :lol You give Lebron Bird's Athleticism and Lebron doesn't even make the NBA. Bird is leaps and bounds better BASKETBALL player.

Can Lebron run faster and jump higher, sure, bless those PEDS, we are talking BASKETBALL here.

When will BASKETBALL SKILLS matter on a BASKETBALL TOP10 i wonder. lol


People comparing LeLayup with Bird, please child.
You give LeBron Bird's shooting, and could've possibly ended up as the GOAT. :facepalm

[VengefulAngel]

From my other thread.


http://i61.tinypic.com/18ya0p.png


Larry Bird 163 games

Lebron James 158* games

Lebron's achievement's are so underrated.

[Kingwillball]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic

Neither did lebron ..:rolleyes:

[Kingwillball]

As I've said before... about Bird, who makes the HOF without him? You can say Bill Walton, but he was already good before. Maybe not HoF level at that point. McHale? Maybe.

Wade was a HoFer already, altho slightly on the down-side.

Factor in that Bron's teams were by far the best and Birds, well, in terms of talent... were not.

Bron formed a superteam in what was already a weak era, making the East even weaker. As I said before, no dynasty teams. No real contenders, even. If you had to name one team that would be in the conference finals for sure, it'd be a guess.

Shit like that matters. Wins are great but it's a competitive sport, so wins against competition matter. The idea for guys like Bird and Bron is to be the best ever, to cement themselves as a top guy in history. In that way, you have to take context into account.

Bron didn't have to face any prime top 10 players during his winning. Bird did.

-Smak

Your an idiot birds teams were better than lebrons talent wise without question. Mchale and Parrish were a dominant front line Dennis Johnson was a very good pg vastly superior to charmers throw in guys like Ainge the celtics had better role players and just a nice mix of size shooting and defense.

[Kingwillball]

Why do we rank Bird so much higher than Lebron again?

coz we saw both play, stats are overrated

bird is on another level than bron, sure he is probably as valuable or even more during reg season, but he is barely half the bball player that bird was

This a troll post everyone disregard.

[toneloc103]

Why would he? He had multiple hall of famers for essentially his entire career (and yes I realize he had to deal with a stacked East and the Lakers dynasty, but he had the squads to do so).

.

Keep it real. Parish was not a hall of famer when Bird got there nor was McHale. Parish was a journeyman center for the Warriors, and McHale was in his 1st or 2nd year if he was even there yet. Im cavs fan but even i can be honest about who the better player is...

[Kvnzhangyay]

Keep it real. Parish was not a hall of famer when Bird got there nor was McHale. Parish was a journeyman center for the Warriors, and McHale was in his 1st or 2nd year if he was even there yet. Im cavs fan but even i can be honest about who the better player is...
the better player is lebron...

[Spurs5Rings2014]

now dubeta is laying on the same cot as Pauk in that resuscitation picture.
he's getting hauled off the field with the smelling salts under his schnozz.

anybody notice those two do spend a lot of time getting trucked?

:roll:

[pegasus]

Even in your comparison post Bran has asterisks
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[colts19]

Lebron is a top 15 player without a doubt. He may be top 10. People fall in love with physical gifts and think those will make you great. Sometimes they really help but not always. People love the look of a physically gifted player and rank him higher than his actual skill.

If you watched Bird his whole career, you would see all the things that make him better than Lebron. Bird, Jordan and Russell were the mentally toughest players I ever saw. That's what separates them from players like Lebron.

[bizil]

LeBron is the MOST VERSATILE PLAYER OF ALL TIME also capable of scoring the same number of points Bird did. That right there IS ENOUGH justification for me to pick Bron over Bird. However, I could just as easily pick Bird because's he's the better shooter and more clutch. They are both great passing and rebounding SF's. My point is, NEITHER ONE is way better than the other! GOAT wise though, I think Bron is gonna pass Bird by. His resume ALREADY stacks up to Bird's. Peak wise, I have NO PROBLEM with anybody saying Bird is better or vice versa.

[cltcfn2924]

Nope, just had multiple hall of famers from '81 on.


Man, that story gets old. Bird made them HOFers. No way were Parrish, McHale or DJ getting there without Bird. Just like Johnson to Worthy. You think Worthy ever gets there without Magic?

[coin24]

Because bird >>>>> LeBald

MJ
Kaj
Russell
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt

Sorry but bran has no case over any of these, colluding, quitting, choking etc.
It's just embarassing to compare him to any of these guys

[SouBeachTalents]

Because bird >>>>> LeBald

MJ
Kaj
Russell
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt

Sorry but bran has no case over any of these, colluding, quitting, choking etc.
It's just embarassing to compare him to any of these guys

LeBron definitely has a case over Kobe and he's not even 30 yet

[PsychoBe]

LeBron definitely has a case over Kobe and he's not even 30 yet

no he doesn't :facepalm

[mehyaM24]

flip a coin with these two. they're the most versatile and well-rounded players in nba history.

[SouBeachTalents]

no he doesn't :facepalm

http://i1.minus.com/iBegjhmjz4dxn.jpg

[houston]

bron better than bird

[MastaKilla]

http://i1.minus.com/iBegjhmjz4dxn.jpg

you said Lebron already has a case over Kobe..

Lebron stan go to argument

"take away half of Kobe's career and Lebron is arguably better"

[coin24]

you said Lebron already has a case over Kobe..

Lebron stan go to argument

"take away half of Kobe's career and Lebron is arguably better"


:lol :lol

LeBald stans aren't very bright

[SouBeachTalents]

you said Lebron already has a case over Kobe..

Lebron stan go to argument

"take away half of Kobe's career and Lebron is arguably better"

My point is, if LeBron has had a better career than Kobe did at the same age, why is it so ridiculous to believe he won't have a better one when they're both retired?

[pegasus]

My point is, if LeBron has had a better career than Kobe did at the same age, why is it so ridiculous to believe he won't have a better one when they're both retired?
Because neither one is retired, and who cares what Lebron "accomplishes" if he continues to collude and stack the deck in the weakest conference of all time?

[3ball]

and actually that's another reason bird is better than lebron - just like jordan, bird never underachieved or choked it away, resulting in more championship rings.

whereas lebron has both underachieved (missing Finals as favorite in 2009 and 2010) and choked it away (2011) - THAT'S why he doesn't have as many rings as Jordan, Bird, Magic, or Kobe, despite his team-hopping efforts.
.

[SouBeachTalents]

this was from a year ago, when lebron had just turned 29.

but now lebron is a week away from his 30th birthday - when jordan was 30 years and 4 months, he had won his 3rd championship.

so lebron has to win this year to keep pace championship-wise with Jordan.

the problem is that if we are looking at years played in the league instead of age, lebron can never catch up - he only has 2 championships in first 12 seasons, while jordan had 3 in his first 9, and 6 in his first 13.

obviously it is impossible for lebron to match this.. he missed his all his chances - his team was the favorite to make the Finals in 2009 and 2010 but he underachieved and failed, and then in 2011 choked it away - if you want to match jordan, you can't choke of underachieve because he never did.
.

I didn't want to include Jordan in that discussion, his picture just came with that example. Jordan's the GOAT, no need to be so insecure

[pastis]

and actually that's another reason bird is better than lebron - just like jordan, bird never underachieved or choked it away, resulting in more championship rings.

whereas lebron has both underachieved (missing Finals as favorite in 2009 and 2010) and choked it away (2011).

thas a well knwn myth ad im a bird fan

[3ball]

thas a well knwn myth ad im a bird fan
when did his team ever underachieve or choke

[SouBeachTalents]

and actually that's another reason bird is better than lebron - just like jordan, bird never underachieved or choked it away, resulting in more championship rings.

whereas lebron has both underachieved (missing Finals as favorite in 2009 and 2010) and choked it away (2011) - THAT'S why he doesn't have as many rings as Jordan, Bird, Magic, or Kobe, despite his team-hopping efforts.
.

LeBron averaged 39, 8, 8 on 49%, hit a buzzer beating shot to win Game 2, and hit two free throws with a second to go to send Game 4 to OT, while his next best teammate averaged 18 ppg on 37%, yet it's LeBron's fault they lost that series :facepalm

[3ball]

LeBron averaged 39, 8, 8 on 49%, hit a buzzer beating shot to win Game 2, and hit two free throws with a second to go to send Game 4 to OT, while his next best teammate averaged 18 ppg on 37%, yet it's LeBron's fault they lost that series :facepalm
it's not about the stats - it's about how well the TEAM is capable of playing basketball.

the lebron-led cavs didn't play a brand of basketball that could be effective when the competition went up to a higher level in the playoffs.

you don't need a bunch of all-stars to win championships - the spurs, bad boys, bulls, mavs, and rockets have proved that - all you need is solid role players and depth, which the cavs had in spades, which is why they were the favorite.
.

[3ball]

also southbeach - you only disputed 2009, so i take it you agree that lebron underachieved in 2010 when his team was the favorite to make the Finals but lost to Boston... and then of course his team choked in 2011.

i would venture that lebron either underachieved or choked each year from 2009-2011, but if you want to say only 2010 and 2011, that's fine - we can agree to disagree.

but the underachievements and choking is why he doesn't have as many rings as kobe, jordan, magic or bird... no other reason... and this is despite all the shameless team-hopping.

[SouBeachTalents]

also southbeach - you only disputed 2009, so i take it you agree that lebron underachieved in 2010 when his team was the favorite to make the Finals but lost to Boston... and then of course his team choked in 2011.

the underachievements and choking is why he doesn't have as many rings as kobe, jordan, magic or bird, no other reason... and this is despite all of lebron's team-hopping.

2010 is overblown imo. LeBron wasn't at his best and had a horrible Game 5, but statistically he was better than Kobe was in the Finals against the same Celtics team. If he had a teammate like Gasol to help pick him up when he wasn't at top form, who know's the Cavs might beat the Celtics.

However, nobody on earth can realistically defend the 2011 Finals. That has serious merit as the biggest choke/failure in NBA history

[Blue&Orange]

Right. We should negate athletic traits for the athletes we are ranking and judging. Makes sense.

Some people on here... I just can't... :facepalm
oh excuse me i though this was a basketball forum, we were talking about basketball and basketball players, my bad. :lol


And this is why people clown Knicks fans so much.

With this retarded logic, would you also consider Nash a better player than Lebron?
dude you are a loser. A sorry ass lebrontard that think it fools people by passing as a bucks fan so that your opinions about LEbron may been seen as unbiased.

What if i said that if you can't shoot free throws, that should also minus when making TOP10, would you also be upset, or it's cool with your feg agenda?

[sbw19]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2h8derxnlY

Acknowledging that, @#% the Celtics and give me LeBron.

[LAZERUSS]

LeBron is the MOST VERSATILE PLAYER OF ALL TIME also capable of scoring the same number of points Bird did. That right there IS ENOUGH justification for me to pick Bron over Bird. However, I could just as easily pick Bird because's he's the better shooter and more clutch. They are both great passing and rebounding SF's. My point is, NEITHER ONE is way better than the other! GOAT wise though, I think Bron is gonna pass Bird by. His resume ALREADY stacks up to Bird's. Peak wise, I have NO PROBLEM with anybody saying Bird is better or vice versa.

THIS.

I won't get into any "bashing" here, but I will say this, those that claim that Bird was somehow more "clutch" than Lebron, are ignoring his post-season "choke jobs."

[bizil]

THIS.

I won't get into any "bashing" here, but I will say this, those that claim that Bird was somehow more "clutch" than Lebron, are ignoring his post-season "choke jobs."

I agree! Bird had his moments as well too. I think Bron is such a willing passer (even moreso than Bird) that he may look to pass too much down the stretch more than Bird. BUT Bron proved his clutch gene way back in that Detroit series back in the day. Dude scored 25 straight points and willed the Cavs eventually to the Finals. That Cavs team HAD NO BUSINESS beating that Pistons team. But Bron did it through clutch heroics.

[La Frescobaldi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2h8derxnlY

Acknowledging that, @#% the Celtics and give me LeBron.
lol all good men hate @#%ing Boston at all times due to @#%ing Celtics.

Your only hope to like that @#%ing green piece of @#% is because you are trapped in that @#%ing city and can't @#%ing leave. all other Celtics @#%s are pure green @#%.


man @#% Sam Jones
and @#% Donny @#%ing Nelson with his @#%ing boinked in @#%
and @#% that @#%ing Hondo & JoJo & @#%ing Cowens
and @#% Larry @#% Bird & D@#%J and @#%ing Ainge
man @#% Pierce too.

too many times, man, too many times. too many times they @#%ing wrecked my teams with their last @#%ing second @#%ing green bag of @#%.

and another thing.

@#% Ray, too, man.

[sbw19]

lol all good men hate @#%ing Boston at all times due to @#%ing Celtics.

Your only hope to like that @#%ing green piece of @#% is because you are trapped in that @#%ing city and can't @#%ing leave. all other Celtics @#%s are pure green @#%.


man @#% Sam Jones
and @#% Donny @#%ing Nelson with his @#%ing boinked in @#%
and @#% that @#%ing Hondo & JoJo & @#%ing Cowens
and @#% Larry @#% Bird & D@#%J and @#%ing Ainge
man @#% Pierce too.

too many times, man, too many times. too many times they @#%ing wrecked my teams with their last @#%ing second @#%ing green bag of @#%.

and another thing.

@#% Ray, too, man.

Future repped.

[La Frescobaldi]

Future repped.


you too, my good man.

@#% all those green bags of @#%.

[colts19]

THIS.

I won't get into any "bashing" here, but I will say this, those that claim that Bird was somehow more "clutch" than Lebron, are ignoring his post-season "choke jobs."

Of course you will. You love bashing Bird. You will do you normal cherry picking of numbers and then say Maxwell won the finals MVP and that proves Bird wasn't that good. Same shit you always spout without context.

Problem is I watched the games so I know what happened. I don't just go by stats. I have never seen anyone have a bigger choke job than Lebron. It doesn't define his career, He is still a great player. But Come on Man.

[DatAsh]

oh excuse me i though this was a basketball forum, we were talking about basketball and basketball players, my bad. :lol


dude you are a loser. A sorry ass lebrontard that think it fools people by passing as a bucks fan so that your opinions about LEbron may been seen as unbiased.

What if i said that if you can't shoot free throws, that should also minus when making TOP10, would you also be upset, or it's cool with your feg agenda?


Athleticism and physical gifts are a huge part of basketball though. Mugsy was more skilled than Wilt, but he wasn't a better player.

[JtotheIzzo]

..........................................Larry Bird...............................LeBron James.....................
MVPs......................................3....... ........................................4......... ......................
FMVPs....................................2........ .......................................2.......... .....................
Rings.......................................3..... ..........................................2....... ........................
1st All-NBA..............................9................ ...............................9*................. ..............
1st All-Defensive.......................0................. ..............................5................... .............
ROTY.....................................Yes...... ......................................Yes......... ....................
Scoring champion.....................0.................... ...........................1...................... ..........
All-star MVP.............................1................. ..............................2................... .............
NBA All-Star............................12................ .............................11*.................. ..............
DPOY.....................................No....... .....................................No(runner-up).................

STATS:

Points..............................21791 (24 ppg)..........................23733 (28 ppg)
Rebounds...........................8974 (10 rpg)............................6208 (7 rpg)
Assists...............................5695 (6 apg).............................5962 (7 apg)
Steals.................................1556 (2 spg).............................1475 (2 spg)
Blocks..................................755 (1 bpg)...............................692 (1 bpg)
TS%.....................................56.1%..... .................................58.1%.........
PER.....................................23.5 (#17).................................27.7 (#2).....

* (he will be an all-star & 1st all-nba teamer again this season)


As you can see, its very close..... and if there is anybody here holding an edge over the other.... im afraid to say it isnt Bird....

Bird & Reggie are my favorite players of all time, just loved them as scoring shooters, so dont get me wrong.... and even i will rank Bird a few steps above Lebron..... but when i think about it more and more, i dont even know why really..........

So can somebody please help remind me why Bird is ranked that much higher than Lebron?

Just so i can be as objective as possible, because right now the objectivity says otherwise..... that at the very very least Lebron should always be ranked right NEXT to Bird on anybodies list..... and infact, logically even over him would not be that bad either....

When the heat won in 2013 I think the consensus was that LBJ > Bird.

Did something change or are trolls trolling?

[SexSymbol]

When the heat won in 2013 I think the consensus was that LBJ > Bird.

Did something change or are trolls trolling?
That was never even the majority's opinion, let alone the consensus.
Bird is still comfortably ahead of LeBron based on his peak, way higher level of competition and just basic skills, he's a better scorer, better rebounder, better passer and an equal defender.

[Deuce Bigalow]

when did his team ever underachieve or choke
7 losses with HCA

1983?

[plowking]

When the heat won in 2013 I think the consensus was that LBJ > Bird.

Did something change or are trolls trolling?

He is. Bird just isn't as polarizing as Bron, hence people will BS and say that Bird is a better player. Not to mention Bron's career isn't done, so people will naturally say "he needs more time" and "wait for him to finish", despite already being more accomplished than Bird in MVP's and career totals.

The only argument Bird has over Bron is the one extra championship. Bron has more MVP's, has a longer career already at his young age, and is better at his best. This coming from someone who is a huge Bird fan, and only became a fan of Bron due to him playing on the team I support.

Half the idiots in here saying Bird was better and clutcher haven't even seen his highlights, let alone a full game.

[SexSymbol]

He is. Bird just isn't as polarizing as Bron, hence people will BS and say that Bird is a better player. Not to mention Bron's career isn't done, so people will naturally say "he needs more time" and "wait for him to finish", despite already being more accomplished than Bird in MVP's and career totals.

The only argument Bird has over Bron is the one extra championship. Bron has more MVP's, has a longer career already at his young age, and is better at his best. This coming from someone who is a huge Bird fan, and only became a fan of Bron due to him playing on the team I support.

Half the idiots in here saying Bird was better and clutcher haven't even seen his highlights, let alone a full game.
MVPs are irrelevant, it's a media award, why would it hold any significant value? Do you know anything about basketball?
Career totals are skewed as Bird couldn't actually play that much due to injuries.
Bird's peak > Bron's peak.

[plowking]

MVPs are irrelevant, it's a media award, why would it hold any significant value? Do you know anything about basketball?
Career totals are skewed as Bird couldn't actually play that much due to injuries.
Bird's peak > Bron's peak.

Cool, well Bron has plenty of other non media awards.
And that media award is the highest individual honor in basketball. It is the one little kids that dream of playing in the NBA hope to get.

So yeah, I know a bit about basketball. Enough to know the MVP is not irrelevant. Unlike you. But of course you'd think that way, since it suits your agenda of being a Kobe stan.

[aj1987]

That was never even the majority's opinion, let alone the consensus.
Bird is still comfortably ahead of LeBron based on his peak, way higher level of competition and just basic skills, he's a better scorer, better rebounder, better passer and an equal defender.
:oldlol:


:facepalm

[Graviton]

I always said Bird is one of the most overrated players in the Top 10, at least resume wise. His peak was great but his actual accomplishments aren't good enough to be put in the Top 5.

Kobe and Lebron have better resumes and are usually ranked in 8-11 spot. :confusedshrug:

[La Frescobaldi]

I always said Bird is one of the most overrated players in the Top 10, at least resume wise. His peak was great but his actual accomplishments aren't good enough to be put in the Top 5.

Kobe and Lebron have better resumes and are usually ranked in 8-11 spot. :confusedshrug:
Lebron flat quit on Shaq and that was truly disgusting. No surprise Shaq's locker was already empty and he was long gone flown the coop before the reporters even showed up in the locker room after that lebron shambles. Worst quit I ever saw.

James is the biggest great player choke artist that I've ever seen and I been watching NBA hoops a very long time.

[sdot_thadon]

I personally have then neck and neck at this point, pretty much interchangeable because I can see a case for both. That said I'm pretty confident by time it's all said and done Lebron will have passed him in the all time sense.

[ballinhun8]

Bird is still the best SF of all time.


Do you guys see Bron surpassing him if he doesn't win another title? Or worse, if he loses again in the Finals?

[Champ]

7 losses with HCA

1983?


This comes up every so often. Why is this significant? Sounds like an agenda stat someone drummed up to knock Bird.

The Bird-era Celtics almost always had HCA. So, they didn't win every series. No team did.

But they did win 24 during that same period. So Bird's HCA record is actually 24-7.

Going against the 80s Eastern Conference. The GOAT conference, with most of the those seven loses coming against the likes of the early-80s Sixers and Bucks, the mid-80s Lakers, and the late-80s Pistons.

Are we really gonna hang the Lebron/Bird comparison on this?

I think we can do better.

[sdot_thadon]

Bird is still the best SF of all time.


Do you guys see Bron surpassing him if he doesn't win another title? Or worse, if he loses again in the Finals?
Yeah I do, they already have comparable career numbers and accomplishments and lebron is barely 30. Longevity will be the thing that pushes him past bird I believe. Another title would likely cement it.

[riseagainst]

people in here actually believe that Lebron is a better passer than Larry Bird?

:roll:

[sdot_thadon]

people in here actually believe that Lebron is a better passer than Larry Bird?

:roll:
Not I, but I feel they are comparable.

[russwest0]

Bird didn't quit on his team to chase rings in his prime...twice.

When will you Lebron fans get it? When will you understand that jumping ship twice is beta and tarnished his legacy greatly?

Y'all got some hard ass heads and convenient memories.

Bird also wouldn't have lost in the Finals if he had Dwyane Wade playing FMVP ball.

[JellyBean]

All I gotta say is, Larry played in games with a bad back. LeBron quit when he got leg cramps.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpbCp5lCMAAH2G8.png:large

[stalkerforlife]

All I gotta say is, Larry played in games with a bad back. LeBron quit when he got leg cramps.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpbCp5lCMAAH2G8.png:large

LeDamn. :roll:

[riseagainst]

All I gotta say is, Larry played in games with a bad back. LeBron quit when he got leg cramps.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpbCp5lCMAAH2G8.png:large


:roll:
:roll:
:roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

:roll:
:roll: :roll:

[20Four]

http://i.minus.com/iRQkcYpCBmHai.jpg

http://i.minus.com/igoo4R10UCbf6.jpg

[turret]

cause some of us were alive in the 80s and don't evaluate on historical utube snippets.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

people in here actually believe that Lebron is a better passer than Larry Bird?The only comparison that can be drawn is a statistical one (APG). Bird's flair, fundamentals and off-ball passing (not having the ball for HUGE chunks of the possession, while making quick decisions and passes as soon as the ball touches your hands) are visibly better.

[StephHamann]

http://i.minus.com/igoo4R10UCbf6.jpg

:roll:

[colts19]

This comes up every so often. Why is this significant? Sounds like an agenda stat someone drummed up to knock Bird.

The Bird-era Celtics almost always had HCA. So, they didn't win every series. No team did.

But they did win 24 during that same period. So Bird's HCA record is actually 24-7.

Going against the 80s Eastern Conference. The GOAT conference, with most of the those seven loses coming against the likes of the early-80s Sixers and Bucks, the mid-80s Lakers, and the late-80s Pistons.

Are we really gonna hang the Lebron/Bird comparison on this


I think we can do better.

Great Post. If you put Bron's Heat team back in the 80's do you think they win 2 Titles against that competition.
Goat conference is right. MJ's bulls aren't winning more than 2 or 3 titles in the 80's.

[La Frescobaldi]

people in here actually believe that Lebron is a better passer than Larry Bird?

:roll:
I know right?

It's just crazy how poor their judgment is about hoops. They are consistent though, gotta give em that.

Consistently wrong.

[Anaximandro1]

Larry Bird has more rings because Lebron had a huge drop-off in efficiency in the NBA Finals.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XfVAGuNbJ7U/VJNRfYFZk4I/AAAAAAAADlQ/LRNzc_-PyT0/s1600/9.jpg



Moreover, LeBron never had a teammate as good as prime Shaq/Gasol.



8 - Bird

9 - LeBron

11 - Kobe

[riseagainst]

Larry Bird has more rings because Lebron had a huge drop-off in efficiency in the NBA Finals.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XfVAGuNbJ7U/VJNRfYFZk4I/AAAAAAAADlQ/LRNzc_-PyT0/s1600/9.jpg




so you are saying Bird and Kobe > Lebron. I agree.
:applause:

[Droid101]

Moreover, LeBron never had a teammate as good as prime Shaq/Gasol.
Don't be retarded. Wade in 2009/2010 was a top 3 player in the league. Gasol was never considered that good ever.

[fpliii]

Don't be retarded. Wade in 2009/2010 was a top 3 player in the league. Gasol was never considered that good ever.
I'd say Wade was in 2011 as well. Hard to get a read on 2012, but I think that was his last prime season, so he had to pretty good then too.

[Real14]

Why is this thread still up?:roll:

Bird is wayyyyyyyy better than that dude.

[bizil]

When it comes to passing, Bird is as good from a stationary position or off a single dribble as ANYBODY!! But that's only a FACET OR TWO OF PASSING!! Lebron is also elite in that area and right near the top too. BUT Bron has PG type speed and handles UNLIKE BIRD. Bron for example can conduct a fast break and break a defense down off the dribble better than Bird. Bron often operates at the top of the floor being his team's primary playmaker. Even though Bird was his team's best passer all the time, he WASN'T the team's primary ball handler. It was always Tiny or DJ setting up the offense. Then from there Bird would work his Magic.

So if one thinks Bird is the better passer THEN FINE!! But don't kid yourself either, Bron is at worst the 2nd greatest passing SF ever. And there are facets at passing that Bron is better at that Bird. In particular the Magic Johnson style of running a fast break and breaking down a defense in the halfcourt off the dribble at 6'8 or 6'9. In my book, the passing ISN'T a big gap between the two.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'd say Wade was in 2011 as well. Hard to get a read on 2012, but I think that was his last prime season, so he had to pretty good then too.

I agree, I'd say Wade was still a top 3 player in 2011, and at least imo was still a top 10 player in 2012 and the 2013 regular season

[daprunus]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic

[SouBeachTalents]

Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic


Bird didnt team up with Jordan and magic

Forgot you posted this with your alt?

[aj1987]

Don't be retarded. Wade in 2009/2010 was a top 3 player in the league. Gasol was never considered that good ever.
What the **** does Wade in '09/'10 have to do with anything? Your stupid, retarded ass does know that LeBron went to the Heat after the '10 season, right?

Seriously can't believe that some Kobeturds believe that LeBron >/= Bird as a passer. Not surprising.
They wouldn't be Kobeturds if they weren't that retarded. :oldlol:

[Blue&Orange]

Not to mention Bron's career isn't done, so people will naturally say "he needs more time" and "wait for him to finish", despite already being more accomplished than Bird in MVP's and career totals.

The only argument Bird has over Bron is the one extra championship. Bron has more MVP's, has a longer career already at his young age, and is better at his best.


And Bird had REAL competition, where's Lebron competition? Too old, too young, injured or playing on his team. Lebron's competition = Paul George lol
Too bad Lebron played on the weakest era since the 60's and still managed to go 2\5.

You really should stop talking.

[Droid101]

What the **** does Wade in '09/'10 have to do with anything? Your stupid, retarded ass does know that LeBron went to the Heat after the '10 season, right?

They decided to join up after the 2010 season completed. The last time they didn't play with each other was 2010. So, you should probably use that season to determine who is stacking the deck. Wade was a top three player when he teamed up with LeBron.

[Blue&Orange]

When the heat won in 2013 I think the consensus was that LBJ > Bird.

Did something change or are trolls trolling?
Remember the Kobe is the GOAT talk? So are trolls trolling now or is he still the goat dumbass?

[aj1987]

They decided to join up after the 2010 season completed. The last time they didn't play with each other was 2010. So, you should probably use that season to determine who is stacking the deck. Wade was a top three player when he teamed up with LeBron.
He was top 3 in '11 and top 10 in '12 and '13. Not denying that. He didn't play with LeBron in '09 and '10 though. :facepalm