Why were the Spurs unable to win a championship between 2008-2013?

[keep-itreal]

Was it because they didn't have any good center/pf to help Tim Duncan?

They had a undersized pf dujuan blair and matt boner who only shoots 3

[navy]

1) Getting beat by better teams
2) Choking

[COnDEMnED]

Celtics, Lakers, Mavericks, Collusion.

[RagaZ]

Injuries.

2009 and 2011 were there for the taking with a healthy Manu Ginobili. Damn.

[daprunus]

Because Kawhi

[RagaZ]

And awful luck with refs in 2008(foul on Brent Barry) and 2012.

[daprunus]

And awful luck with refs in 2008(foul on Brent Barry) and 2012.

It wasn't foul on Brent Barry at all.

[SCdac]

2012-2013 .. we should give the Spurs some credit in this season. They didn't win but they were damn close.

Prior to that, there was a number of things:

- Bruce Bowen got old(er) & Spurs traded him for an under-performing/ill-fit Richard Jefferson. RJ was horrible in playoff losses against the Suns (10 ppg @ .42%) and Grizzlies (7 ppg @ .39 FG%). Spurs started getting better the moment he left.

- Spurs relied too heavily on Matt Bonner (67 starts in 08-09), who generally shrunk in the playoffs, and Antonio McDyess on his last legs (though to his credit he guarded Dirk excellently in 09-10 first round). The moment Spurs began starting Tiago Splitter they became even better defensively and offensively.

- DeJuan Blair was undersized, weak on D, and got into pop's doghouse. Has the skillset of a center (solid post moves ala Luis Scola) but is too short, jump shot not really solid enough to be full time PF.

- George Hill was awesome at times, a fan favorite, but didn't pan out and Spurs managed to upgrade, trading him for Kawhi Leonard on draft day (a player who was projected to go higher).

- Ginobili missed the playoffs in 09 and played through a broken arm in 11 loss to the Grizzlies.

- Adding Boris Diaw, Patty Mills, and Belinelli and bringing them off the bench made Spurs one of if not the deepest team in the league. Diaw - who won MIP on the Phoenix Suns mind you - is unique in that he can pass, shoot, defend, and play like a guard or a big. He thrives in SA's system.

- Duncan's resurgence (should have won DPOY in 2013) made Spurs lethal again, he trimmed down his weight and never went away from his mid-range jump shot, allowing Tiago (a natural center) room to maneuver and do his thing. TD's longevity can't be overstated.

- Spurs coaching staff reevaluated their offense as Timmy aged and begane integrating more fast breaks, uptempo style while retaining a focus on defense.

there are other reasons and I probably forgot some but those are biggest ones to me

[jcyrus10]

Celtics, Lakers, Mavericks, Collusion.

Memphis too

[HOoopCityJones]

Lakers, Mavs and Memphis.

[Heavincent]

- Kobe happened in 08

- Simply weren't as good in 09 and 10. Their defense fell off a bit if I remember correctly. Duncan wasn't the same.

- I remember them struggling with injuries toward the end of the 2011 season, which kind of carried over into the playoffs. Got beat by a really good Memphis team.

- Came really close in 2012 and 13.

[dubeta]

Colluding is a long process, not something that can happen spontaneously

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Colluding is a long process, not something that can happen spontaneously

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[thefatmiral]

choking. and stacked healthy thunder. could have had three in a row now if those werent the case. werent good enough before those with RJ and hill getting so many mins.

[Collie]

2012-2013 .. we should give the Spurs some credit in this season. They didn't win but they were damn close.

Prior to that, there was a number of things:

- Bruce Bowen got old(er) & Spurs traded him for an under-performing/ill-fit Richard Jefferson. RJ was horrible in playoff losses against the Suns (10 ppg @ .42%) and Grizzlies (7 ppg @ .39 FG%). Spurs started getting better the moment he left.

- Spurs relied too heavily on Matt Bonner (67 starts in 08-09), who generally shrunk in the playoffs, and Antonio McDyess on his last legs (though to his credit he guarded Dirk excellently in 09-10 first round). The moment Spurs began starting Tiago Splitter they became even better defensively and offensively.

- DeJuan Blair was undersized, weak on D, and got into pop's doghouse. Has the skillset of a center (solid post moves ala Luis Scola) but is too short, jump shot not really solid enough to be full time PF.

- George Hill was awesome at times, a fan favorite, but didn't pan out and Spurs managed to upgrade, trading him for Kawhi Leonard on draft day (a player who was projected to go higher).

- Ginobili missed the playoffs in 09 and played through a broken arm in 11 loss to the Grizzlies.

- Adding Boris Diaw, Patty Mills, and Belinelli and bringing them off the bench made Spurs one of if not the deepest team in the league. Diaw - who won MIP on the Phoenix Suns mind you - is unique in that he can pass, shoot, defend, and play like a guard or a big. He thrives in SA's system.

- Duncan's resurgence (should have won DPOY in 2013) made Spurs lethal again, he trimmed down his weight and never went away from his mid-range jump shot, allowing Tiago (a natural center) room to maneuver and do his thing. TD's longevity can't be overstated.

- Spurs coaching staff reevaluated their offense as Timmy aged and begane integrating more fast breaks, uptempo style while retaining a focus on defense.

there are other reasons and I probably forgot some but those are biggest ones to me

Great points. Especially regarding TD becoming a defensive force again. I think somewhere around 2009-2011, he slipped a bit defensively.

[GimmeThat]

Tim Duncan isn't God

don't even know what that means for Pop

[Magic 32]

RagaZ[/B]]And awful luck with refs in 2008(foul on Brent Barry) and 2012

Yeah that would have changed everything.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm 4-1

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/San+Antonio+Spurs+v+Los+Angeles+Lakers+Game+gBHWKA IlwBPl.jpg

[Spurs5Rings2014]

2012-2013 .. we should give the Spurs some credit in this season. They didn't win but they were damn close.

Prior to that, there was a number of things:

- Bruce Bowen got old(er) & Spurs traded him for an under-performing/ill-fit Richard Jefferson. RJ was horrible in playoff losses against the Suns (10 ppg @ .42%) and Grizzlies (7 ppg @ .39 FG%). Spurs started getting better the moment he left.

- Spurs relied too heavily on Matt Bonner (67 starts in 08-09), who generally shrunk in the playoffs, and Antonio McDyess on his last legs (though to his credit he guarded Dirk excellently in 09-10 first round). The moment Spurs began starting Tiago Splitter they became even better defensively and offensively.

- DeJuan Blair was undersized, weak on D, and got into pop's doghouse. Has the skillset of a center (solid post moves ala Luis Scola) but is too short, jump shot not really solid enough to be full time PF.

- George Hill was awesome at times, a fan favorite, but didn't pan out and Spurs managed to upgrade, trading him for Kawhi Leonard on draft day (a player who was projected to go higher).

- Ginobili missed the playoffs in 09 and played through a broken arm in 11 loss to the Grizzlies.

- Adding Boris Diaw, Patty Mills, and Belinelli and bringing them off the bench made Spurs one of if not the deepest team in the league. Diaw - who won MIP on the Phoenix Suns mind you - is unique in that he can pass, shoot, defend, and play like a guard or a big. He thrives in SA's system.

- Duncan's resurgence (should have won DPOY in 2013) made Spurs lethal again, he trimmed down his weight and never went away from his mid-range jump shot, allowing Tiago (a natural center) room to maneuver and do his thing. TD's longevity can't be overstated.

- Spurs coaching staff reevaluated their offense as Timmy aged and begane integrating more fast breaks, uptempo style while retaining a focus on defense.

there are other reasons and I probably forgot some but those are biggest ones to me

:applause:

[DaRkJaWs]

Let's be honest: from 2008-2010 Duncan was terrible, as his teammates got older he couldn't let them carry him like he wanted them to since he fell off a cliff (only being good for his size and length). He and his team were terrible and it didn't affect his all time rank for some reason. 2009 he loses to a mediocre Dallas team and in 2010 he and the spurs embarrassingly get swept by the suns, with Duncan being embarrassed by the young rookie goran dragic IN THE PAINT. 2011 they change their philosophy but the supposedly top 10 and in some peoples mind top 5 player of all time gets embarrassed by Zach Randolph, a player who used to air ball 3s in NYC, and his 8th ranked grizzlies. Even with HCA the supposed "best power forward of all time" choked and was showed to be a fraud. Now from here on out it gets interesting. Duncan actually became the player he was in 2008 from 2012-2013 but as always relies on good teammates and bad opponents in order to win. They lose in 2012 to okc and despite a valiant effort by the entire team lose to Miami. Miami fell off a cliff in 2014 season and that plus manu ginobli turning back into the old player he used to be helps them rout the heat. While Duncan deserves some credit, his having fallen off a cliff isn't mentioned by his proponents simply because he has 5 titles.

[dubeta]

Let's be honest: from 2008-2010 Duncan was terrible, as his teammates got older he couldn't let them carry him like he wanted them to since he fell off a cliff (only being good for his size and length). He and his team were terrible and it didn't affect his all time rank for some reason. 2009 he loses to a mediocre Dallas team and in 2010 he and the spurs embarrassingly get swept by the suns, with Duncan being embarrassed by the young rookie goran dragic IN THE PAINT. 2011 they change their philosophy but the supposedly top 10 and in some peoples mind top 5 player of all time gets embarrassed by Zach Randolph, a player who used to air ball 3s in NYC, and his 8th ranked grizzlies. Even with HCA the supposed "best power forward of all time" choked and was showed to be a fraud. Now from here on out it gets interesting. Duncan actually became the player he was in 2008 from 2012-2013 but as always relies on good teammates and bad opponents in order to win. They lose in 2012 to okc and despite a valiant effort by the entire team lose to Miami. Miami fell off a cliff in 2014 season and that plus manu ginobli turning back into the old player he used to be helps them rout the heat. While Duncan deserves some credit, his having fallen off a cliff isn't mentioned by his proponents simply because he has 5 titles.


Damn Duncan exposed!! :wtf:


B.. But.. top 10 they said

[T_L_P]

Let's be honest: from 2008-2010 Duncan was terrible, as his teammates got older he couldn't let them carry him like he wanted them to since he fell off a cliff (only being good for his size and length). He and his team were terrible and it didn't affect his all time rank for some reason. 2009 he loses to a mediocre Dallas team and in 2010 he and the spurs embarrassingly get swept by the suns, with Duncan being embarrassed by the young rookie goran dragic IN THE PAINT. 2011 they change their philosophy but the supposedly top 10 and in some peoples mind top 5 player of all time gets embarrassed by Zach Randolph, a player who used to air ball 3s in NYC, and his 8th ranked grizzlies. Even with HCA the supposed "best power forward of all time" choked and was showed to be a fraud. Now from here on out it gets interesting. Duncan actually became the player he was in 2008 from 2012-2013 but as always relies on good teammates and bad opponents in order to win. They lose in 2012 to okc and despite a valiant effort by the entire team lose to Miami. Miami fell off a cliff in 2014 season and that plus manu ginobli turning back into the old player he used to be helps them rout the heat. While Duncan deserves some credit, his having fallen off a cliff isn't mentioned by his proponents simply because he has 5 titles.

You do realise you just described what happens to players once they past their prime? You know, like Shaq after 05, Garnett after 08, Hakeem around 96, Robinson in 02, etc etc. Players Duncan's age are either 5/5 players or out of the league. Yet he's still putting up 15/11 and playing some of the best defense in the league. We went from the 12th ranked defense in 2012 to the 2nd ranked in 2013, mostly because of Duncan. And guess what...we made the Finals...and guess what, Duncan was the best Spur in the Finals (with Parker and Manu, the guys who carry him, having two of the biggest choke jobs in recent Finals history). :facepalm

Anyway, what do you mean by letting his teams carry him? Did they carry him when he averaged 32 PPG in the Mavs series in 06, whilst injured? Or what about when he had to be the best player in the league in 07 for his team to win a ring? When he was one of the only Spurs who showed up in 04? When he outright carried them in 02 and 03? When he and Robinson were the only ones who produced against the Lakers in 01?

[Imtheman]

Lakers had a better team.
Mavs got hot
Memphis got better

Ray allen

[The_Yearning]

They should have repeated and won in 2006 but Manu made probably the biggest boneheaded play I've ever seen.

[houston]

they wasn't good enough

[Victoire]

Richard Jefferson was one of the reason while he was there. He was god awful.

[L.A. Jazz]

Richard Jefferson was one of the reason while he was there. He was god awful.
Like the Spurs i thought he would play well for them.

but as usual it's not one thing. Duncan declined a little bit and had no help on D what so ever (Bowen declined, Udoka and Jefferson werent good enough, no bigmen help either - Blair, ...). Then some injuries. So Pop and his staff tried to change their style of play. they had to because they couldnt win the same way they played in 03 or 05. This helped Duncan to play on a high level until today and they got lucky with Kwahi, who may not be the superstar some people think, but he is an allround player and fills the wholes for the Spurs. Thats why he is so valuable (fmVp).

[huskerdu]

Duncan dealt with some bad knee issues that plagued him for years. He was very close to retiring after 2011.


He has no cartilage in his left knee anymore but losing weight and not playing as much in the post allowed him to regenerate his game.


Top 5 player of all time.

[CelticBaller]

Because they weren't the best team in those years?

[Budadiiii]

Durant went God mode and ruined their shot in 2012, backdoor swept their asses.

2013 choke. Duncan is actually a massive choker. Never been a late game monster like Durant. Dude over-thinks it and ends up failing miserably. Remember that bunny he missed in game 7 to tie? LOL, dudes a joke.

[Jlamb47]

Durant went God mode and ruined their shot in 2012, backdoor swept their asses.

2013 choke. Duncan is actually a massive choker. Never been a late game monster like Durant. Dude over-thinks it and ends up failing miserably. Remember that bunny he missed in game 7 to tie? LOL, dudes a joke.

Duncan is a joke, who went to the Finals 6 times won 5 of them with 3 FMVP 2 MVP. But hes just a joke

What does Durant have that Duncan dosnt?? a nice scoring chip???

[Budadiiii]

Duncan is a joke, who went to the Finals 6 times won 5 of them with 3 FMVP 2 MVP. But hes just a joke

What does Durant have that Duncan dosnt?? a nice scoring chip???
Durant would win every single year with Pop and that supporting cast.. get real

[Jlamb47]

Durant would win every single year with Pop and that supporting cast.. get real

I am getting REAL, and no he wont. Durant dont play defense like Duncan

[Budadiiii]

I am getting REAL, and no he wont. Durant dont play defense like Duncan
And Duncan has never played offense like Durant. Scoring > defense or else Tony Allen would be the best player in the league

[Mrofir]

Speaking of cliffs, this thread started off pretty well, and went over a cliff.

It is now drilling a hole into the core of the earth

[ralph_i_el]

Because it's hard as hell to win a chip and every season ~5 real contenders go home without one.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Peak Kobe, miracle Ray Allen shot, mismatches and injuries vs. OKC and Memphis.

[T_L_P]

Durant went God mode and ruined their shot in 2012, backdoor swept their asses.

2013 choke. Duncan is actually a massive choker. Never been a late game monster like Durant. Dude over-thinks it and ends up failing miserably. Remember that bunny he missed in game 7 to tie? LOL, dudes a joke.

Stephenson slip, missed a floater, missed the game-saving shot.

MVP season and he wasn't even the best player on his team in the Playoffs

http://i54.tinypic.com/fux8nd.jpg

[Budadiiii]

Stephenson slip, missed a floater, missed the game-saving shot.

MVP season and he wasn't even the best player on his team in the Playoffs

http://i54.tinypic.com/fux8nd.jpg
:D

Stop trolling.

[rmt]

Let's be honest: from 2008-2010 Duncan was terrible, as his teammates got older he couldn't let them carry him like he wanted them to since he fell off a cliff (only being good for his size and length). He and his team were terrible and it didn't affect his all time rank for some reason. 2009 he loses to a mediocre Dallas team and in 2010 he and the spurs embarrassingly get swept by the suns, with Duncan being embarrassed by the young rookie goran dragic IN THE PAINT. 2011 they change their philosophy but the supposedly top 10 and in some peoples mind top 5 player of all time gets embarrassed by Zach Randolph, a player who used to air ball 3s in NYC, and his 8th ranked grizzlies. Even with HCA the supposed "best power forward of all time" choked and was showed to be a fraud. Now from here on out it gets interesting. Duncan actually became the player he was in 2008 from 2012-2013 but as always relies on good teammates and bad opponents in order to win. They lose in 2012 to okc and despite a valiant effort by the entire team lose to Miami. Miami fell off a cliff in 2014 season and that plus manu ginobli turning back into the old player he used to be helps them rout the heat. While Duncan deserves some credit, his having fallen off a cliff isn't mentioned by his proponents simply because he has 5 titles.

2007-08 regular season
19.3 pts / 11.3 rebs / 2.8 asst / 1.9 blks 50%FG in 34 mins.

2008 playoffs
20.2 pts / 10.9 rebs / 3.3 asst / 2.1 blks 45%FG

2008-09
19.3 pts / 10.7 rebs / 3.5 asst / 1.7 blks 50% in 34 mins.

2009 playoffs
19.8 pts / 8 rebs / 3.2 asst / 1.2 blks 53%FG

2009-10 regular season
17.9 pts / 10.1 rebs / 3.2 asst / 1.5 blks 52% in 31 mins

2010 playoffs
19 pts / 9.9 rebs / 2.6 asst / 1.7 blks 52%FG

2010-11 regular season
13.4 pts / 8.9 rebs / 2.7 asst / 1.9 blks 50%FG in 28 mins

You really should check your info before spouting off nonsense. Seems to me that 2010-11 was the only year he was as you say terrible. And those stats aren't bad for a 35 year old in 28 mins. You only think they're bad because he has been consistently excellent and the bar is set so high for him. Duncan is the primary reason why San Antonio has 5 championships.

[rmt]

2012-2013 .. we should give the Spurs some credit in this season. They didn't win but they were damn close.

Prior to that, there was a number of things:

- Bruce Bowen got old(er) & Spurs traded him for an under-performing/ill-fit Richard Jefferson. RJ was horrible in playoff losses against the Suns (10 ppg @ .42%) and Grizzlies (7 ppg @ .39 FG%). Spurs started getting better the moment he left.

- Spurs relied too heavily on Matt Bonner (67 starts in 08-09), who generally shrunk in the playoffs, and Antonio McDyess on his last legs (though to his credit he guarded Dirk excellently in 09-10 first round). The moment Spurs began starting Tiago Splitter they became even better defensively and offensively.

- DeJuan Blair was undersized, weak on D, and got into pop's doghouse. Has the skillset of a center (solid post moves ala Luis Scola) but is too short, jump shot not really solid enough to be full time PF.

- George Hill was awesome at times, a fan favorite, but didn't pan out and Spurs managed to upgrade, trading him for Kawhi Leonard on draft day (a player who was projected to go higher).

- Ginobili missed the playoffs in 09 and played through a broken arm in 11 loss to the Grizzlies.

- Adding Boris Diaw, Patty Mills, and Belinelli and bringing them off the bench made Spurs one of if not the deepest team in the league. Diaw - who won MIP on the Phoenix Suns mind you - is unique in that he can pass, shoot, defend, and play like a guard or a big. He thrives in SA's system.

- Duncan's resurgence (should have won DPOY in 2013) made Spurs lethal again, he trimmed down his weight and never went away from his mid-range jump shot, allowing Tiago (a natural center) room to maneuver and do his thing. TD's longevity can't be overstated.

- Spurs coaching staff reevaluated their offense as Timmy aged and begane integrating more fast breaks, uptempo style while retaining a focus on defense.

there are other reasons and I probably forgot some but those are biggest ones to me

This. In a nutshell, RJ, Bonner and Blair (instead of the current supporting cast of Diaw, Green, Splitter and Mills AND the emergence of Kwahi). And of course, there was the natural decline due to age of Duncan and Manu.

[T_L_P]

This. In a nutshell, RJ, Bonner and Blair (instead of the current supporting cast of Diaw, Green, Splitter and Mills AND the emergence of Kwahi). And of course, there was the natural decline due to age of Duncan and Manu.

Pop's an all time great coach (#2 in NBA history in my book), but he never "got" the Stretch 4. The only reason we have Daye on the team is because loves the idea of having one.

[gcvbcat]

They should never have lost in 13, good thing they won in 14.


still mad about 13 though.

[Budadiiii]

They should never have lost in 13, good thing they won in 14.


still mad about 13 though.
They wouldn't have won in 14 if they hadn't lost in 13.

The Spurs last year were just as desperate and hungry as the Heat were in 2012. You can't re-create that

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Stephenson slip, missed a floater, missed the game-saving shot.

MVP season and he wasn't even the best player on his team in the Playoffs

http://i54.tinypic.com/fux8nd.jpg

R.I.P. Budadiiii

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Anaximandro1]

And Duncan has never played offense like Durant. Scoring > defense or else Tony Allen would be the best player in the league

- From 1999 to 2007, Duncan was the best offensive player in the game (Shaq had the best offensive peak)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kT0BXN3olqg/VJIHkk-v46I/AAAAAAAADkc/dJr1IAUMpVQ/s1600/6.jpg


non-Spurs fans had 3 problems :

- 1 ) Spurs' players don't care about regular season stats

- 2) Spurs played at a glacial pace during Duncan's youth

- 3) NBA Offensive Ratings collapsed in the late 90s and early 2000s



prime Duncan was an incredible offensive player relative to his era.

He was great at creating his own shot in the half court; he was great at reading the defense, drawing constant double teams, and finding the open man; he was a phenomenal offensive rebounder ... at his peak, Duncan was the best player on both ends of the floor, a rare feat.


Why were the Spurs unable to win a championship between 2008-2013?

- Duncan's physical decline was pretty severe (2008 - 2011) -> the Spurs spent years reinventing themselves.

- Spurs' offense started to revolve around Parker, they acquired Jefferson, drafted DeJuan Blair, Ginobili suffered some injuries... things didn't pan out as planned.

- Kawhi Leonard was the missing piece. He is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA, an elite rebounder, decent offensive player ... great asset for the team. Kawhi is a beast, tbh.