Did Lebron have the most overrated peak in NBA history?

[BigBoss]

This is the youtube, twitter, social media generation and Lebron redefined the bandwagon.

He only managed 2 championships in 5 attempts.

Thats...sort of...kind of.....not impressive.

[Mr. Jabbar]

yes

http://thenosebleeds.nextimpulsemedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cmon_son_54_bald_lebron_james.png

[J Shuttlesworth]

4 MVPs
2 rings/2 fmvps
shooting 55+ % for 3 years

Yeah that peak is as good as Shaq

[G0ATbe]

Without a doubt.

[BigBoss]

Starting to think he may not have deserved 1 or 2 of those MVPs

[Hey Yo]

yes

http://thenosebleeds.nextimpulsemedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cmon_son_54_bald_lebron_james.png
Jabbar upset after losing bet on 2012 finals.

http://i.imgur.com/0MrGC9M.jpg

[3ball]

4 MVPs
2 rings/2 fmvps
shooting 55+ % for 3 years

Yeah that peak is as good as Shaq
MVP's should not enter the discussion when comparing peak shaq to peak lebron - only actual performance matters, not subjective opinions on performance.

the MVP is an arbitrary award that a ton of guys don't get despite deserving them (shaq and jordan being the prime examples).

if you take the MVP's out of it (as you should), Shaq had the far superior playoff and Finals performance and team success.

also, unlike shaq and others, lebron couldn't make the Finals without team-hopping, even though he had several teams that were the favorite to make the Finals.

[Ball So Harden]

also, unlike shaq and others, lebron couldn't make the Finals without team-hopping, even though he had several teams that were the favorite to make the Finals.

Not that I don't agree with most of your point, but both LeBron and Shaq both made it to the Finals with their original teams, then team-hopped to get to the Finals more and finally win.

[guy]

Starting to think he may not have deserved 1 or 2 of those MVPs

Who did? Maybe Durant in 2012. That's about it. I don't really find any argument against him for 2009, 2010, or 2013.

[Kblaze8855]

This is the youtube, twitter, social media generation and Lebron redefined the bandwagon.

He only managed 2 championships in 5 attempts.

Thats...sort of...kind of.....not impressive.

Not to anyone with the least bit of respect for the history of the game and how many greats have come and gone without accomplishing half of what he did in entire careers.

If Lebron is unimpressive for being a 4 time MVP who led 5 finals teams and won two rings with 2 finals MVPs...at age 29...

You must not think guys like Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, Oscar, Moses Malone, and Isiah Thomas are shit then.

This line of thinking pretty much reduces 99% of great player into jokes.

Anyone not impressed by a 4 time mvp with 2 rings regardless of the sport, league, or player in question is just looking to hate.

You shit on all of history when you act like guys like that arent impressive.

It would be an amazing career to lead 5 finals teams...to a loss.

There are guys ranked in the top 3-5 for most of the games history who never led a team to the finals at all...

Its a tremendous accomplishment just to set foot on the floor in the finals as your teams leader.

[BigBoss]

Not to anyone with the least bit of respect for the history of the game and how many greats have come and gone without accomplishing half of what he did in entire careers.

If Lebron is unimpressive for being a 4 time MVP, who led 5 finals teams, and won two rings, with 2 finals MVPs, at age 29....

You must not think guys like Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, Oscar, Moses Malone, and Isiah Thomas are shit then.

This line of thinking pretty much reduces 99% of great player into jokes.

Anyone not impressed by a 4 time mvp with 2 rings regardless of the sport, league, or player in question is just looking to hate.

You shit on all of history when you act like guys like that arent impressive.

Lebron will have those same accolades at age 39. It's not impressive. We talking Michael Jackson not Tito. Hakeem had 2.

[tpols]

Not to anyone with the least bit of respect for the history of the game and how many greats have come and gone without accomplishing half of what he did in entire careers.

If Lebron is unimpressive for being a 4 time MVP, who led 5 finals teams, and won two rings, with 2 finals MVPs, at age 29....

You must not think guys like Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, Oscar, Moses Malone, and Isiah Thomas are shit then.

This line of thinking pretty much reduces 99% of great player into jokes.

Anyone not impressed by a 4 time mvp with 2 rings regardless of the sport, league, or player in question is just looking to hate.

You shit on all of history when you act like guys like that arent impressive.

People compare lebrons peak to Shaq and Jordans though.. Not the guys you listed. I agree with op in that it is consistently overrated.

[Budadiiii]

Yeah, I kept waiting for "it" to happen. "it" being him taking the next step and dominating and forcing his will on the opponents. You only saw it in spurts and he never really become the sort of competitor that Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Westbrook, Durant are. He was just kind of ... there, stat padding his meaningless regular season stats, collecting meaningless MVP's in the East against shit competition, and playing with no sense of urgency in the finals.

Meh...

He's mentally lazy. It's why I hate him as a leader, he's a role player stuck in a superstars body.

[SouBeachTalents]

Not to anyone with the least bit of respect for the history of the game and how many greats have come and gone without accomplishing half of what he did in entire careers.

If Lebron is unimpressive for being a 4 time MVP who led 5 finals teams and won two rings with 2 finals MVPs...at age 29...

You must not think guys like Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, Oscar, Moses Malone, and Isiah Thomas are shit then.

This line of thinking pretty much reduces 99% of great player into jokes.

Anyone not impressed by a 4 time mvp with 2 rings regardless of the sport, league, or player in question is just looking to hate.

You shit on all of history when you act like guys like that arent impressive.

It would be an amazing career to lead 5 finals teams...to a loss.

There are guys ranked in the top 3-5 for most of the games history who never led a team to the finals at all...

Its a tremendous accomplishment just to set foot on the floor in the finals as your teams leader.

:applause:
Who honestly had a better career resume before turning 30?

[3ball]

People compare lebrons peak to Shaq and Jordans though.. Not the guys you listed. I agree with op in that it is consistently overrated.
ether

:applause:

[r15mohd]

:applause:
Who honestly had a better career resume before turning 30?

Magic, and Shaq due to pure dominance...don't think anyone else really :confusedshrug:

[Budadiiii]

:applause:
Who honestly had a better career resume before turning 30?
Yeah, that's what Bran is all about. His resume on paper.

Congrats to him, I guess...

But when you watch the game, you watch how passive he is, and you want to rip your hair out because he's the most genetically gifted athlete ever but rarely forces it on you. He's content with being a Magic Johnson type player when he should have been playing like Jordan and Kobe from day one. He's unstoppable when he goes in that mode but he's scared of true success.

So settle for that paper resume... it's all he has

[r15mohd]

Yeah, that's what Bran is all about. His resume on paper.

Congrats to him, I guess...

But when you watch the game, you watch how passive he is, and you want to rip your hair out because he's the most genetically gifted athlete ever but rarely forces it on you. He's content with being a Magic Johnson type player when he should have been playing like Jordan and Kobe from day one. He's unstoppable when he goes in that mode but he's scared of true success.

So settle for that paper resume... it's all he has

what's wrong with being a "magic type player"?

[GimmeThat]

When you factor in the head coaches, not so much overrated.

[3ball]

Who honestly had a better career resume before turning 30?


ignoring the elephant in the room - his resume would be nothing if he diidn't team-hop.

and the thread is not about resume, it's about "peak".

I think the OP said "peak".

Lebron's peak was very short, and closer to the Doctor J, Elgin Baylor, Oscar, Moses Malone, and Isiah Thomas level that KBlaze suggested, than the extended success of Shaq, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, or Bird.

therefore, OP is right - Lebron's peak is overrated.
.

[imnew09]

Stat pad along 2 Superstars while PLAYING IN THE EAST. :facepalm When faced against the West, stats declined like Russias Stock

[Budadiiii]

what's wrong with being a "magic type player"?
Other than being significantly worse at it than Magic? I guess nothing...

Magic had undeniable charisma and leadership oozing out of him. He truly made his teammates better.

LeBron is bigger, stronger, faster than Magic. If Magic had LeBron's athleticism he wouldn't play the way he did.

LeBron is scary when he just mans up and dominates offensively. When that happens... the floodgates open and then his good vision and passing skills can be fully utilized.

Playing passive from the get go is just.... weak from him. A guy his size and athletic ability should never play passive from the opening tip.

That's where the "weak competitor" thing comes in to play. Does he want to win?

[Hey Yo]

This is the youtube, twitter, social media generation and Lebron redefined the bandwagon.

He only managed 2 championships in 5 attempts.

Thats...sort of...kind of.....not impressive.
1-1 when James' team was the favorite

1-2 when they weren't

[CavaliersFTW]

:applause:
Who honestly had a better career resume before turning 30?
Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain

[sportjames23]

Jabbar upset after losing bet on 2012 finals.

http://i.imgur.com/0MrGC9M.jpg


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Doranku]

I mean, nothing says overrated like winning 60 games in back-to-back seasons and failing to make it out of the Leastern Conference both years. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain

Wilt, with half the MVP's and zero championships? I don't think so

[Hey Yo]

This is the youtube, twitter, social media generation and Lebron redefined the bandwagon.

He only managed 2 championships in 5 attempts.

Thats...sort of...kind of.....not impressive.
1-0 when James' team was the favorite (2013)...... (it was still Wade's team in 2011)

1-2 when James's team was not the favorite. (Wade turned team over to LeBron after the 2011 Finals)

So technically LeBron's 2/4 in the Finals as lead dog.

[JebronLames]

It's underrated. No other perimeter player in history wins with that flawed team with his second best player being a terrible complement to him and playing like garbage in the playoffs. His third best player playing out of position, also not complementing him, and hurt in 2012. Watch what happens to the heat this year.

[Kblaze8855]

People compare lebrons peak to Shaq and Jordans though.. Not the guys you listed. I agree with op in that it is consistently overrated.

Lebrons accomplishments right now...equal some of those guys combined. Doc, Elgin, and Oscar combine for the same rings and less MVPs than Lebron.

Why wouldnt he be compared to people with similar accomplishments? Is that not how sports has worked....forever?

I dont believe Lebron is better than Hakeem...but im not gonna act surprised when a guy stacks up 20 years worth of accomplishments in the last 7-8 seasons and has people compare him to all time elites.

Shaq had people saying he was the best center of all time by his third season.

I know...I was in those arguments.

This is how sports work.

You simply dont win 4 MVPs in 5 years along with 5 finals trips with 2 rings and have people ask if you are as good as peak Jerry Lucas.

You shoot to the top of the conversation.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt, with half the MVP's and zero championships? I don't think so
With every record under the sun and a 40+ ppg 25+ rpg average, I know so. Most dominant ever.

[Budadiiii]

i agree that lebron is passive, but that's not the only thing holding him back.

lebron is not as VERSATILE a scorer as Jordan or Kobe - he simply is not elite at ALL aspects of scoring like they were.

having less options in his scoring attack prevents him from being as aggressive as they were - you can't just put your head down and run everyone over for a big scoring game in the playoffs... you must have an expansive, diverse scoring repertoire to continually attack a defense that has game-planned for you.
When he's confident he can score from anywhere on the court. Obviously doesn't have the footwork or technique they have but I'm not buying that excuse.

It's all in the head for him. He just never overcame his confidence issues

[Hey Yo]

I mean, nothing says overrated like winning 60 games in back-to-back seasons and failing to make it out of the Leastern Conference both years. :lol
Then how could LA lose in the Finals to a Leastern Conference team just a year before?

[SouBeachTalents]

Then how could LA lose in the Finals to a Leastern Conference team just a year before?

Not only that, why does Kobe only shoot 42% for his career against the Least in the Finals?

[r15mohd]

Other than being significantly worse at it than Magic? I guess nothing...

Magic had undeniable charisma and leadership oozing out of him. He truly made his teammates better.

LeBron is bigger, stronger, faster than Magic. If Magic had LeBron's athleticism he wouldn't play the way he did.

LeBron is scary when he just mans up and dominates offensively. When that happens... the floodgates open and then his good vision and passing skills can be fully utilized.

Playing passive from the get go is just.... weak from him. A guy his size and athletic ability should never play passive from the opening tip.

That's where the "weak competitor" thing comes in to play. Does he want to win?

significantly worse is a far stretch...he's been the closest player to Magic this league has seen, since Magic. always overstating the disparage when it comes to Lebron :confusedshrug:

[Doranku]

Then how could LA lose in the Finals to a Leastern Conference team just a year before?

Injuries.

[riseagainst]

Then how could LA lose in the Finals to a Leastern Conference team just a year before?

because they didn't win 60 games?

:confusedshrug:

[tpols]

Lebrons accomplishments right now...equal some of those guys combined. Doc, Elgin, and Oscar combine for the same rings and less MVPs than Lebron.

Why wouldnt he be compared to people with similar accomplishments? Is that not how sports has worked....forever?

I dont believe Lebron is better than Hakeem...but im not gonna act surprised when a guy stacks up 20 years worth of accomplishments in the last 7-8 seasons and has people compare him to all time elites.

Shaq had people saying he was the best center of all time by his third season.

I know...I was in those arguments.

This is how sports work.

You simply dont win 4 MVPs in 5 years along with 5 finals trips with 2 rings and have people ask if you are as good as peak Jerry Lucas.

You shoot to the top of the conversation.

Shaq and mj three peated at their peaks.. Dominated every year.. Every finals.. Never choked like LeBron did in 2011 or had big hiccups like in 2013. Faced better competition as well. LeBron went 2-4 at his peak and showed more weakness at critical points than shaq/mj ever did. Their peaks >>

[SexSymbol]

2011 is the most terrible thing ever, just complete career crusher
He played good against babies in 2012, not something spectacular like people made it out to be, but it was a good performance nonetheless, and he didn't have really bad games in the POs, so aside from Thunder being newborn babies in basketball, the run was great.
13 he luckes out with so many injuries even in his own conference, and then got saved by Ray Ray, didn't really have a good finals series up to G7
14 are obviously terrible, worst beatdown in history.

Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, Magic, Wilt, Russell, M.Malone and probably few others had better peaks.

[r15mohd]

Shaq and mj three peated at their peaks.. Dominated every year.. Every finals.. Never choked like LeBron did in 2011 or had big hiccups like in 2013. Faced better competition as well. Their peaks >>


NO ONE will ever touch MJ :no:
Magic never 3 peated, Tragic-Magic, and is ranked higher than Shaq :confusedshrug:

[Real14]

yes

http://thenosebleeds.nextimpulsemedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cmon_son_54_bald_lebron_james.png

:roll: and he missed more playoffs than Melo

[r15mohd]

:roll: and he missed more playoffs than Melo

missed more playoff's than Melo, yet 5x more Final appearances than Melo...go back into hibernation :rolleyes:

[Hey Yo]

significantly worse is a far stretch...he's been the closest player to Magic this league has seen, since Magic. always overstating the disparage when it comes to Lebron :confusedshrug:
Closest to Magic?

Last time I watched, LeBron had an effective perimeter jump shot, a 3pt stroke and played defense.

Can't say the same for Magic.

[r15mohd]

how does 2/5 in 8 seasons compare with 6/6 or 5/9 or 5/7?... IT CLEARLY DOESN'T, but you continue to compare them because you are biased - that's the only explanation for comparing 2/5 to 6/6, 5/9, or 5/7.

also, lebron's accomplishments are due 100% to team-hopping.

how can you justify comparing those accomplishments to guys that didn't team-hop?



and they were dead wrong, just like people were wrong about lebron.


You shoot to the top of the conversation.



MJ - scottie and rodman
Magic - kareem and worthy
TD - Parker and Manu
Kareem - magic and worthy

logic is that hard? :facepalm


only one that has no real justification is Hakeem...he took mediocre's to the promise land, but was in MJ's absence. so weighs out IMO

[trabash]

He only managed 2 championships in 5 attempts.
Did he only attempt to win the championship in 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014? Just playing for fun the other years?

I think you realize your cognitive error yourself. :lol

[Budadiiii]

2011 is the most terrible thing ever, just complete career crusher
He played good against babies in 2012, not something spectacular like people made it out to be, but it was a good performance nonetheless, and he didn't have really bad games in the POs, so aside from Thunder being newborn babies in basketball, the run was great.
13 he luckes out with so many injuries even in his own conference, and then got saved by Ray Ray, didn't really have a good finals series up to G7
14 are obviously terrible, worst beatdown in history.

Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, Magic, Wilt, Russell, M.Malone and probably few others had better peaks.
Yeah, when you actually add context to his rings it's even more underwhelming.

OKC was not only young but they got out coached and had three liabilities in that series.

Perkins was getting torched, Thabo was too small to guard LeBron, and when Durant tried the refs called touch fouls on him and he was forced to sit on the bench and it completely took him out of his groove.

Bosh made Perkins his bitch. Harden didn't show up. Westbrook shot like shit.

Durant was really the only consistent OKC player that series. And doesn't LeBron get a big excuse for his 2007 performance because he was 22 and his team was out matched?

Durant at 23 in his first final scores 31 on 55% and doesn't even get a break. LOL. Kinda hilarious to think about.

[r15mohd]

Closest to Magic?

Last time I watched, LeBron had an effective perimeter jump shot, a 3pt stroke and played defense.

Can't say the same for Magic.

he's not better than magic...don't overstate your homerism

[Young X]

Lebron has had regular seasons and playoff runs that have either rivaled or came close to rivaling MJ's best. His peak is maybe top 5 IMO.

[oarabbus]

NO ONE will ever touch MJ :no:
Magic never 3 peated, Tragic-Magic, and is ranked higher than Shaq :confusedshrug:


This game is fun.


MJ will never touch Bill Russell :no:

[kamil]

:applause:
Who honestly had a better career resume before turning 30?

Who honestly considers 'career' resumes as only until age of 30?

[Real14]

missed more playoff's than Melo, yet 5x more Final appearances than Melo...go back into hibernation :rolleyes:
Lost 3 finals while only winning 2:lol plus this :applause: ......

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[Doranku]

2012 is the only impressive year that LeBron had in Miami.

Superb run, probably one of the best ever. Good competition, consistent performances throughout the entire playoffs, dominant finals.

2011 would have been impressive as well but the Mavs series ruined all of that.

2014 is self explanatory, record breaking losses in the finals. Nothing to see there.

2013 is probably the most overrated run of all-time by a superstar. Byes in the first in second round, shoddy performances all over, embarrassing showing through the first 5 games against the Spurs, bailed out by Ray Allen, etc etc. He dominated game 7 of the finals so he definitely deserves a good amount of praise for that, but the rest of that run is absurdly overrated.

[Real14]

2012 is the only impressive year that LeBron had in Miami.
.

I doubted because of the refs rigging that entire postseason for him to win:no:

[r15mohd]

Lost 3 finals while only winning 2:lol plus this :applause: ......

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg


Knicks lost 6 finals while only winning 2 titles...like i said go back into hibernation :rolleyes:


2/8!
2/8!!
2/8!!!

[Budadiiii]

2012 is the only impressive year that LeBron had in Miami.

Superb run, probably one of the best ever. Good competition, consistent performances throughout the entire playoffs, dominant finals.

2011 would have been impressive as well but the Mavs series ruined all of that.

2014 is self explanatory, record breaking losses in the finals. Nothing to see there.

2013 is probably the most overrated run of all-time by a superstar. Byes in the first in second round, shoddy performances all over, embarrassing showing through the first 5 games against the Spurs, bailed out by Ray Allen, etc etc. He dominated game 7 of the finals so he definitely deserves a good amount of praise for that, but the rest of that run is absurdly overrated.
And it's hard to praise him because it should have never happened.

Spurs choked it away. The fact that LeBron allowed his team to be in that position in the first place kinda puts a fat asterisk on that ring in my eyes.

[riseagainst]

This game is fun.


MJ will never touch Bill Russell :no:

too bad he already did after his first 3 peat, and not in the gay way like you are probably fantasizing about.

[r15mohd]

And it's hard to praise him because it should have never happened.

Spurs choked it away. The fact that LeBron allowed his team to be in that position in the first place kinda puts a fat asterisk on that ring in my eyes.

what about the Spurs allowing Lebron to dominate the 4th qtr and cut the lead, and then lead them to a win in overtime for game 6. then allowed him to have the best games 7 performance in an NBA Finals?

keep trying the downplay though, great at it! :rolleyes:

[riseagainst]

Knicks lost 6 finals while only winning 2 titles...like i said go back into hibernation :rolleyes:


2/8!
2/8!!
2/8!!!

so you are saying Lebron is almost as bad historically as the Knicks.

[Budadiiii]

what about the Spurs allowing Lebron to dominate the 4th qtr and cut the lead, and then lead them to a win in overtime for game 6. then allowed him to have the best games 7 performance in an NBA Finals?

keep trying the downplay though, great at it! :rolleyes:
I remember LeBron bricking miserably and Bosh getting the rebound to kick out to Allen...

I remember that quite vividly actually. Greatest shot in NBA history.

[r15mohd]

so you are saying Lebron is almost as bad historically as the Knicks.


almost as bad? 25% to 40% averages?

math not your strongest subject, i assume :rolleyes:

[Real14]

Knicks lost 6 finals while only winning 2 titles...like i said go back into hibernation :rolleyes:


2/8!
2/8!!
2/8!!!

What a bitch move to compare a franchise to a superstar:oldlol: Knicks are 2/8 but played over 50 years but just imagine bron playing 50 years. He would lose at least 20 times in the finals:roll:

[3ball]

I dont believe Lebron is better than Hakeem...but im not gonna act surprised when a guy stacks up 20 years worth of accomplishments in the last 7-8 seasons and has people compare him to all time elites.


how does 2/5 in 8 seasons compare with 6/6 or 5/9 or 5/7?... it clearly doesn't.

also, lebron's accomplishments are due 100% to team-hopping.

how can you justify comparing those accomplishments to guys that didn't team-hop?





Shaq had people saying he was the best center of all time by his third season.


and they were dead wrong, just like people were wrong about lebron.





You shoot to the top of the conversation.


2/5 is not good enough to be at the top of the conversation - it's nowhere near 6/6, 5/9 or 5/7.

are you saying it is?

[Real14]

almost as bad? 25% to 40% averages?

math not your strongest subject, i assume :rolleyes:
You cant compare the knicks and bron just like I said. Lebron would have to play for 50 years.

[r15mohd]

I remember LeBron bricking miserably and Bosh getting the rebound to kick out to Allen...

I remember that quite vividly actually. Greatest shot in NBA history.


glad to know your attention span is only able to last 30 secs...an additional 52:30 was played. but luckily you caught a historic moment, some the likes of Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Robert Horry and many others have been apart of :applause: :applause: :applause:

[3ball]

LeBron is scary when he just mans up and dominates offensively.


passivity is not the only thing holding him back - his lack of scoring versatility hurts him too.

you can't just put your head down and run people over in the playoffs.

you must have an expansive, diverse scoring repertoire to continually attack a defense that has game-planned for you.
.

[3ball]

passivity is not the only thing holding lebron back - his lack of scoring versatility hurts him too.

you can't just put your head down and run people over in the playoffs.

you must have an expansive, diverse scoring repertoire to continually attack a defense that has game-planned for you.


the fact that jordan and kobe were elite in EVERY aspect of scoring allowed them to be more aggressive on a continual basis - they never had to slow down because the defense was "on to them".

whereas lebron runs out of options, so he has to pull back... his repertoire isn't big enough.

[r15mohd]

passivity is not the only thing holding him back - his lack of scoring versatility hurts him too.

you can't just put your head down and run people over in the playoffs.

you must have an expansive, diverse scoring repertoire to continually attack a defense that has game-planned for you.
.


of course versatility is needed, however the way he has attacked has proven to be prosperous for the most part in his 11 years so far? :confusedshrug:

Rank Player PTS
1. Michael Jordan* 5987
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
3. Kobe Bryant 5640
4. Shaquille O'Neal 5250
5. Tim Duncan 4988
6. Karl Malone* 4761
7. Julius Erving* 4580
8. Jerry West* 4457
9. LeBron James 4419 11 seasons, is it 10 playoff appearances?
10. Larry Bird* 3897

Link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career_p.html

[r15mohd]

Originally Posted by 3ball

passivity is not the only thing holding lebron back - his lack of scoring versatility hurts him too.

you can't just put your head down and run people over in the playoffs.

you must have an expansive, diverse scoring repertoire to continually attack a defense that has game-planned for you.

the fact that jordan and kobe were elite in EVERY aspect of scoring allowed them to be more aggressive on a continual basis - they never had to slow down because the defense was "on to them".

whereas lebron runs out of options... his repertoire isn't big enough so he has to pull back when the defense is "on to him".

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

forgot to switch alt's bruh :D


so confirmed, buddadiii and 3ball are the same person? lmao!

[Anaximandro1]

The NBA's Eastern Conference is a joke --> Lebron had a huge drop-off in efficiency in the NBA Finals ... prime LeBron is just slightly better than prime Kobe.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XfVAGuNbJ7U/VJNRfYFZk4I/AAAAAAAADlQ/LRNzc_-PyT0/s1600/9.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Shaq and mj three peated at their peaks.. Dominated every year.. Every finals.. Never choked like LeBron did in 2011 or had big hiccups like in 2013. Faced better competition as well. LeBron went 2-4 at his peak and showed more weakness at critical points than shaq/mj ever did. Their peaks >>

Thats just the thing...you decide the peak is where you say it is to make a point. Shaq put up 28/11/3 and was all NBA first team and all D team in 03. Played the exact same number of games as 02...put up 27/15/4/3 blocks in the playoffs shooting better than he did in the previous season. But you arent gonna call that his peak...because they lost. If they won...we would be saying Shaq went 4/4 at his peak. And MJ was not better at basketball in 1993 than he was in 1990. Nobody is better than Jordan was by 1990. Dude was out there making an absolute mockery of teams. Gives the cavs damn near 70/20 and he had like 5-6 other absurd 40-50 point games that week or two. He hate crimed the 76ers in the playoffs. Gave the Pistons like 3 40 point games.

Jordan wasnt like...working up to his peak. He was as good at basketball as anyone would ever be.

But we define the peak where it all came together team wise.

Lebron is a missed Wade 3 in 2011(Heat go up 3-0) from his "peak" being a threepeat with 4 mvps in 5 years....or a Ray miss from only having one.

He wouldnt be any better....or worse.

So it comes down to the usual....ability vs resume.

Which is an argument that will never be settled.

I dont think Lebron is all time elite ability wise(not far from it though). Hes gonna be all time elite resume wise though.

Similar situation to Kobe.

[Budadiiii]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

forgot to switch alt's bruh :D


so confirmed, buddadiii and 3ball are the same person? lmao!
:facepalm

Dumbass. He was adding to his previous thoughts.

[3ball]

of course versatility is needed, however the way he has attacked has proven to be prosperous for the most part in his 11 years so far? :confusedshrug:

Rank Player PTS
1. Michael Jordan* 5987
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
3. Kobe Bryant 5640
4. Shaquille O'Neal 5250
5. Tim Duncan 4988
6. Karl Malone* 4761
7. Julius Erving* 4580
8. Jerry West* 4457
9. LeBron James 4419 11 seasons, is it 10 playoff appearances?
10. Larry Bird* 3897

Link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_career_p.html
every single guy on that list except Dr. J, West, and Malone has a better record and performance in the Finals than Lebron.

[r15mohd]

:facepalm

Dumbass. He was adding to his previous thoughts.


sure he was! or should i say, sure you were :rolleyes: :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

NO ONE will ever touch MJ :no:
Magic never 3 peated, Tragic-Magic, and is ranked higher than Shaq :confusedshrug:
Magic has more chips, regular season MVPs, and finals appearances. One of the greatest playoff performers of all time.

Why do LeBron fans like yourself get caught up using straw-man arguments?

[r15mohd]

every single guy on that list except Dr. J, West, and Malone has a better record and performance in the Finals than Lebron.


why are u switching the narrative...you initially said his style of play isn't effective in gaining points in the playoffs. i show you you're wrong, now it is about finals performance and better records

stop it the rhetoric budaddiii :roll: :roll: :roll:

[r15mohd]

Magic has more chips, regular season MVPs, and finals appearances. One of the greatest playoff performers of all time.

Why do LeBron fans like yourself get caught up using straw-man arguments?


you should read the full post thread before making yourself look like an idiot


what was initially said:


Originally Posted by tpols
Shaq and mj three peated at their peaks.. Dominated every year.. Every finals.. Never choked like LeBron did in 2011 or had big hiccups like in 2013. Faced better competition as well. Their peaks >>


what I rebutted in saying Magic is ranked higher than Shaq, to indicate his comment to be misleading

Originally Posted by r15mohd
NO ONE will ever touch MJ
Magic never 3 peated, Tragic-Magic, and is ranked higher than Shaq


had nothing to do about Lebron at this point :rolleyes:

[BigBoss]

Did he only attempt to win the championship in 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014? Just playing for fun the other years?

I think you realize your cognitive error yourself. :lol

Yes, he only managed [to win] 2 championships in 5 attempts.

"cognitive error"...Stephen A is that you?

[3ball]

why are u switching the narrative...you initially said his style of play isn't effective in gaining points in the playoffs.


i said his lack of scoring versatility doesn't allow him to be consistently aggressive, which is why he can't dominate games in the playoffs and Finals as much as jordan, hakeem, bird and others did.

you must have an expansive, diverse scoring repertoire to continually attack a defense that has game-planned for you.

you can't just put your head down and run over playoff defenses for big scoring games... lebron's lack of scoring versatility means he has to pull back his aggressiveness once the defense starts cutting off driving lanes.

but if lebron was a more versatile scorer, he would not run out of options against the defense, allowing him to be more consistently aggressive.
.

[Keno]

kobe's peak = missing the playoffs, and first round exit. so to answer op's question, nope.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you should read the full post thread before making yourself look like an idiot


what was initially said:



what I rebutted in saying Magic is ranked higher than Shaq, to indicate his comment to be misleading



had nothing to do about Lebron at this point :rolleyes:

Did you not comprehend my post? I never mentioned LeBron. I was addressing your Magic and Shaq comparison - Magic is ranked higher because of everything I just pointed out.

[r15mohd]

i said his lack of scoring versatility doesn't allow him to be consistently aggressive, which is why he can't dominate games in the playoffs and Finals as much as jordan, hakeem, bird and others did.

you must have an expansive, diverse scoring repertoire to continually attack a defense that has game-planned for you.

you can't just put your head down and run over playoff defenses for big scoring games... lebron's lack of versatility means he has to pull back his aggressiveness once the defense starts cutting off driving lanes.

but if lebron was a more versatile scorer, he would not run out of options against the defense, causing him to pull back his aggressiveness.

I do agree he can be more aggressive BUDADDIII but his scoring approach has worked more times than not, or there wouldn't be such a high point total. If he continued the aggressiveness with his same approach, he'd be even better than where he stood now

[r15mohd]

Did you not comprehend my post? I never mentioned LeBron. I was addressing your Magic and Shaq comparison - Magic is ranked higher because of everything I just pointed out.

I didn't mention lebron either...why would u respond with lebron embedded if u had no intention of mentioning it? :confusedshrug:

[LilEddyCurry]

Ripthekick is that you?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I didn't mention lebron either...why would u respond with lebron embedded if u had no intention of mentioning it? :confusedshrug:

I called you a LeBron stan, which is what you are. That doesn't take away from the fact, Magic is and SHOULD be rated higher than Shaq, someone that he clearly accomplished more than.

[r15mohd]

Ripthekick is that you?


If ripthekik is badaddiii, then he sure is

[r15mohd]

I called you a LeBron stan, which is what you are. That doesn't take away from the fact, Magic is and SHOULD be rated higher than Shaq, someone that he clearly accomplished more than.


Jordan Stan...get it right!

And I never said magic was below shaq...it what I reiterated to the initial misleading post

[3ball]

I do agree he can be more aggressive BUDADDIII but his scoring approach has worked more times than not, or there wouldn't be such a high point total.


a lot of guys AVERAGE the same points as him in the playoffs - a super-ton of guys actually.





If he continued the aggressiveness with his same approach, he'd be even better than where he stood now


he clearly can't increase his aggression... it's been 12 years - lebron is not a new player... we know what he can do.

and now he's past his prime.

[r15mohd]

a lot of guys AVERAGE the same points as him in the playoffs - a super-ton of guys actually.



he clearly can't increase his aggression... it's been 12 years - lebron is not a new player... we know what he can do.

and now he's past his prime.

Doing it is one thing for an average, but can it be replicated for the same tenure...pretty big difference, no?

If it were that easy, there would be new current players in the top 10 than just retired GOATs and TD, Kobe and Lebron.

[pauk]

in 4 years:

Leaves the team with best team record, they immediately have the worst record in the NBA next season.
Joins a bad team that missed the playoffs or had 1st round exists since 2006 and immediately go to Finals and then does this:

2 MVPs
2 FMVPs
2 Championships
4 straight Finals Appearances
1 Gold Medal
The best player in the world and historically dominant productions & milestones.
Memorable performances on the biggest stage, in the clutch aswell, on both sides of the floor.
Team/Franchise records (61 pts, 27 game winning streak and so on)

Leaves that championship team who could have went for best record & Finals again and they immediately are struggling to grab a playoff spot in the weakest Conference.
Joins the previous team which has been struggling for worst NBA record since the day he left in 2010 and they immediately are in the playoffs and could go to the Finals again.....

So i mean sure....

[3ball]

Memorable performances on the biggest stage, in the clutch aswell, on both sides of the floor.


other than Game 7 in 2013 Finals, nothing else "memorable" pops into my head.

maybe you can help me out on this one (waiting while you look up lebron's memorable playoff performances).

[3ball]

if you lose in the Finals half the time with teams you hand-selected to ensure they had the best talent, you can't be equated with players who proved their brand of basketball was much harder to beat.

[SouBeachTalents]

in 4 years:

Leaves the team with best team record, they immediately have the worst record in the NBA next season. Joins a bad team that missed the playoffs or had 1st round exists since 2006 and immediately go to Finals and then does this:

2 MVPs
2 FMVPs
2 Championships
4 straight Finals Appearances
1 Gold Medal
The best player in the world and historically dominant productions & milestones.
Memorable performances on the biggest stage, in the clutch aswell, on both sides of the floor.
Team/Franchise records (61 pts, 27 game winning streak and so on)

So i mean sure....

That's being extremely disingenuous

[Budadiiii]

That's being extremely disingenuous
He was the only Cavs player to leave and the only Heat acquisition.

It's all LeBron! He gets all the credit for everything! It's so fun being a delusional Bran fan.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Stat pad along 2 Superstars while PLAYING IN THE EAST. :facepalm When faced against the West, stats declined like Russias Stock
He's had a better record against the West than the East the last 4 years