Who's better all time, Pippen or Pau?

[stalkerforlife]

We all know the answer, but this is an experiment...

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen

[magmo68]

Really?

[imdaman99]

How about between Wade and Pau?

[Genaro]

Pippen no doubt about it.

[stalkerforlife]

How about between Wade and Pau?

Sure...

[Smoke117]

http://recent.keedan.com/track/files/2013/11/jordan-pippen-laugh.jpg

You just might make the worst threads on the board. (which is impressive considering the competition)

[Real14]

:oldlol:

[iTare]

The ugly one

[Real14]

How about between Wade and Pau?
Wade for leading his team to the 06 finals.

[TaLvsCuaL]

The best way to bash a player: Make a thread with a stupid statement or comparison in his favor and wait for people to get baited.

[Akrazotile]

Tbh both are better than Kobe.

[daprunus]

Pau carried the 3rd top scorer of all time while Pippen was carried by the 4th top scorer.

It is close but I say Gasol.

[turret]

:hammerhead:

what next , a why is bird ranked higher than lebron thread?:hammerhead:

[stalkerforlife]

So the consensus is, Jordan had more help than Kobe.

Correct?

[TaLvsCuaL]

So the consensus is, Jordan had more help than Kobe.

Correct?
rivals teams were also much better

[stalkerforlife]

rivals teams were also much better

Kobe's rivals were better, correct?

Spurs
Trailblazers
Suns
Celtics
etc.

[SouBeachTalents]

So the consensus is, Jordan had more help than Kobe.

Correct?

Peak Shaq was ok help

[stalkerforlife]

Peak Shaq was ok help

Kobe didn't have Shaq during his peak. MJ won his first title at 28 and Kobe did not have Shaq at 28.

[GoldMedallist]

Jordan had more help than Kobe, but also better rivals.

Too difficult to compare.

[Random_Guy]

this is actually a very clever thread lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

Kobe didn't have Shaq during his peak. MJ won his first title at 28 and Kobe did not have Shaq at 28.
That's why Kobe only won 2 rings in his prime opposed to Jordan having 6.

If jordan had prime Shaq for his first few years, he'd probably have 9 rings.

[stalkerforlife]

That's why Kobe only won 2 rings in his prime opposed to Jordan having 6.

If jordan had prime Shaq for his first few years, he'd probably have 9 rings.

Because he had infinitely more help.

[Shih508]

Kobe didn't have Shaq during his peak. MJ won his first title at 28 and Kobe did not have Shaq at 28.

MJ had 6 how many did kobe have without Stern and Shaq?

[MavsSuperFan]

So the consensus is, Jordan had more help than Kobe.

Correct?
:applause: :applause: I honestly didnt see that coming

[AirFederer]

Scottie Pauppen

[GoldMedallist]

:applause: :applause: I honestly didnt see that coming

Well, it's true. Pau can match what scottie did in the court, but that lakers did not have a rebounding beast like Rodman.

And sure they did not have a "bench" player like Tony Kucoc.

[OldSchoolBBall]

They had roughly equal impact in their primes. I'd say Gasol's was possibly even a tad higher due to his offensive rebounding, paint protection, and crazy offensive efficiency.

[Da_Realist]

Pippen is the better player. Not even close.

Yet. The lakers was tailor-made for Kobe. Having 7 footers + 6'10" Lamar Odom made Kobe's life easier. He didn't need to play top flight perimeter defense because the middle was protected and he could shoot as much as he wanted knowing those guys were playing volleyball with the rebounds. They even had an additional defensive guy on the perimeter to help out (Ariza/Artest). Tailor made for Kobe.

MJ had plenty of help which is why they won 72, 69 and 62 games. Yet MJ still had to be MJ to win those titles. He didn't have the luxury to just shoot and wait on 7 footers to grab the rebounds and pass it back to him. He couldn't coast on defense while his teammates picked up the slack. And I'm glad cause that's boring as hell.

And finally, I don't think any version of Kobe, #8 or #24, would have led the 98 Bulls to the title. Even the best of Kobe would have been stopped in the Eastern Conference Finals. An exhausted MJ driving to the basket time after time after time to get to the free throw line in the 4th quarter of Game 7 against Indiana was all heart. Finding a way to win Game 6 against Utah with Pippen operating at 30% showed an ability to pace himself and keep the game close until he could strike at the end -- against the same team that beat Olajuwon's Rockets, Robinson's/Duncan's Spurs and swept Shaq's Lakers. No version of Kobe does that.

[Round Mound]

Pippen is the better player. Not even close.

Yet. The lakers was tailor-made for Kobe. Having 7 footers + 6'10" Lamar Odom made Kobe's life easier. He didn't need to play top flight perimeter defense because the middle was protected and he could shoot as much as he wanted knowing those guys were playing volleyball with the rebounds. They even had an additional defensive guy on the perimeter to help out (Ariza/Artest). Tailor made for Kobe.

MJ had plenty of help which is why they won 72, 69 and 62 games. Yet MJ still had to be MJ to win those titles. He didn't have the luxury to just shoot and wait on 7 footers to grab the rebounds and pass it back to him. He couldn't coast on defense while his teammates picked up the slack. And I'm glad cause that's boring as hell.

And finally, I don't think any version of Kobe, #8 or #24, would have led the 98 Bulls to the title. Even the best of Kobe would have been stopped in the Eastern Conference Finals. An exhausted MJ driving to the basket time after time after time to get to the free throw line in the 4th quarter of Game 7 against Indiana was all heart. Finding a way to win Game 6 against Utah with Pippen operating at 30% showed an ability to pace himself and keep the game close until he could strike at the end -- against the same team that beat Olajuwon's Rockets, Robinson's/Duncan's Spurs and swept Shaq's Lakers. No version of Kobe does that.

This!

[ArbitraryWater]

So the consensus is, Jordan had more help than Kobe.

Correct?

Nah, the consensus is you're a fa*got

[3ball]

Jordan had more help than Kobe, but also better rivals.


if jordan had more help, why was his production so much higher?... shouldn't his personal production be LOWER if he had more help?

why did Jordan average 33.6 PPG in the Finals (to kobe's 24 PPG) or have a 28.6 PER in the playoffs (to Kobe's 22.4), if he had more help?

just doesn't make any sense.

the reality is that KOBE had more help, which allowed him to win his championships while producing much lower stats and personal production than jordan.

[Da_Realist]

if jordan had more help, why was his production so much higher?... shouldn't his personal production be LOWER if he had more help?

why did Jordan average 33.6 PPG in the Finals (to kobe's 24 PPG) or have a 28.6 PER in the playoffs (to Kobe's 22.4), if he had more help?

just doesn't make any sense.

the reality is that KOBE had more help, which allowed him to win his championships while producing much lower stats and personal production than jordan.

Not necessarily. The competition was different, in terms of the makeup of the teams, personnel and even the rules they played under.

MJ had a perimeter oriented team in a big man's league. Kobe had a big team in a perimeter oriented league. In terms of talent, chemistry, bball iq and competitiveness MJ had a lot of help. In terms of having a physical advantage over everyone else, Kobe had more help.

Jordan averaged 33.6 in the Finals because he was the best perimeter scorer in history and his team didn't have a lot of natural scorers. Guys couldn't get a lot of easy baskets by themselves or in crunch time. So MJ filled that gap. Kobe is one of the best perimeter scorers but he had teammates that could also put the ball in the basket. That doesn't mean MJ didn't have a ton of help. The Lakers had no one I'd take over Pippen and Rodman. They knew how to win. They knew when to step up and when to step back. Smart guys that took the game seriously. You can't quantify that easily by looking at how much they scored.

Pau was soft, Bynum was hardly ever motivated and Odom was wildly inconsistent but Pau Gasol and Bynum were 7'0" (Odom was 6'10"). They would hardly ever play teams with even one seven footer, let alone two...even less frequent two seven footers, a 6'10 do everything forward and a perimeter defensive stopper. That's a distinct physical advantage. The Lakers could get away with Kobe shooting 40%, Gasol being pushed around a little bit and Bynum/Odom taking the odd night off.

By contrast, both Pippen and Rodman were listed at 6'8". They were thoroughbreds playing against stallions like Karl Malone, Barkley, Jamal Mashburn, Alonzo Mourning and young Shaq. They held their own but they didn't have a physical advantage so they needed to step up to the plate every single night to maximize the Bulls chances to win.

They both had help. MJ had a better team but Kobe's team had a larger physical advantage over the rest of his league.

[LilEddyCurry]

Better question who is better. Wade or Pippen?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Better question who is better. Wade or Pippen?
D-Wade.

[robert de niro]

so who is better, Barea or Wade?

[plowking]

If I was starting a team, I'd take Pau, who is a 20/10 big man in his prime. I guess that makes him the better player in my mind.

Scottie is definitely more decorated and racked up more accolades, but as far as a higher impact player on the court? Pau, in my opinion.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Better question who is better. Wade or Pippen?
Scottie

[SouBeachTalents]

Better question who is better. Wade or Pippen?

I agree, I even made a thread about that

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350443

[SamuraiSWISH]

Scottie
What? Stupidity.

Wade: 24 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg w/ Good Defense
Pippen: 16 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg w/ Great Defense

Wade is closer to Pippen defensively, than Scottie is to Dwyane offensively. This is an easy win for D-Wade. No questions asked. 8 ppg difference? That's like another tier or two in terms of quality of player. The only people even trying to say otherwise are agenda driven LeBron or Kobe stans.

[Dengness9]

Shaq.

There's your answer.


What a shitty experiment.

[Smoke117]

Scottie

Scottie Pippen is my favorite player of all time...but I'm not retarded. Wade is clearly a better player.

[ralph_i_el]

Pippau

[stalkerforlife]

Looks as though everyone agrees...

Jordan had way more help than Kobe.

Kukoc, a guy who came off the bench, would be the 2nd or third option on Kobe's team.

[plowking]

Scottie's value or worth as a player doesn't necessarily come from his peak play, although when he was playing, I do remember hearing a few commentators say he was the 2nd best player behind Michael. That is BS when you consider guys like Barkley, Malone, Shaq, Robinson and Ewing were all playing at the time.

Pippen has value in the fact he won a lot on a great team, and is possibly one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. If he played on any other team outside of the Bulls, he probably wouldn't be regarded as highly as he is due to not winning as much. As far as actual players, you have to think Pau is the better player. Maybe not ranked as high as Pippen, but neither is someone like Mitch Richmond, and at his best, he was as good as Pippen ever was.

[SouBeachTalents]

Looks as though everyone agrees...

Jordan had way more help than Kobe.

Kukoc, a guy who came off the bench, would be the 2nd or third option on Kobe's team.

Everyone else also agrees Jordan was the best player on all of his championship teams. The same can't be said for Kobe

[stalkerforlife]

Scottie's value or worth as a player doesn't necessarily come from his peak play, although when he was playing, I do remember hearing a few commentators say he was the 2nd best player behind Michael. That is BS when you consider guys like Barkley, Malone, Shaq, Robinson and Ewing were all playing at the time.

Pippen has value in the fact he won a lot on a great team, and is possibly one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. If he played on any other team outside of the Bulls, he probably wouldn't be regarded as highly as he is due to not winning as much. As far as actual players, you have to think Pau is the better player. Maybe not ranked as high as Pippen, but neither is someone like Mitch Richmond, and at his best, he was as good as Pippen ever was.

:facepalm

Go to bed, nicca.

[stalkerforlife]

Everyone else also agrees Jordan was the best player on all of his championship teams. The same can't be said for Kobe

Jordan was in his prime during all his titles. Kobe was not. Jordan had superior talent surrounding him during both their primes.

Jordan is better, but let's not act like Jordan is way better. He simply isn't. MJ is the GOAT, but Kobe is top 5.

[NBASTATMAN]

Pippen was better but Pau is so underrated. Check out who led those title teams in WIN SHARES... PAU BABY:bowdown:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/

[WallIn]

Seriously?

[navy]

What? Stupidity.

Wade: 24 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg w/ Good Defense
Pippen: 16 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg w/ Great Defense

Wade is closer to Pippen defensively, than Scottie is to Dwyane offensively. This is an easy win for D-Wade. No questions asked. 8 ppg difference? That's like another tier or two in terms of quality of player. The only people even trying to say otherwise are agenda driven LeBron or Kobe stans.
/this

Only thing comparable is Wade's last two post seasons runs. Scottie wasnt always a spring chicken in the post season as well.

[Lebron23]

Pippen, But Gasol is an underrated player. One of the best FIBA players, and he had a good case for winning the Finals MVP in 2010.

[3ball]

Not necessarily. The competition was different, in terms of the makeup of the teams, personnel and even the rules they played under.

MJ had a perimeter oriented team in a big man's league. Kobe had a big team in a perimeter oriented league. In terms of talent, chemistry, bball iq and competitiveness MJ had a lot of help. In terms of having a physical advantage over everyone else, Kobe had more help.

Jordan averaged 33.6 in the Finals because he was the best perimeter scorer in history and his team didn't have a lot of natural scorers. Guys couldn't get a lot of easy baskets by themselves or in crunch time. So MJ filled that gap. Kobe is one of the best perimeter scorers but he had teammates that could also put the ball in the basket. That doesn't mean MJ didn't have a ton of help. The Lakers had no one I'd take over Pippen and Rodman. They knew how to win. They knew when to step up and when to step back. Smart guys that took the game seriously. You can't quantify that easily by looking at how much they scored.

Pau was soft, Bynum was hardly ever motivated and Odom was wildly inconsistent but Pau Gasol and Bynum were 7'0" (Odom was 6'10"). They would hardly ever play teams with even one seven footer, let alone two...even less frequent two seven footers, a 6'10 do everything forward and a perimeter defensive stopper. That's a distinct physical advantage. The Lakers could get away with Kobe shooting 40%, Gasol being pushed around a little bit and Bynum/Odom taking the odd night off.

By contrast, both Pippen and Rodman were listed at 6'8". They were thoroughbreds playing against stallions like Karl Malone, Barkley, Jamal Mashburn, Alonzo Mourning and young Shaq. They held their own but they didn't have a physical advantage so they needed to step up to the plate every single night to maximize the Bulls chances to win.

They both had help. MJ had a better team but Kobe's team had a larger physical advantage over the rest of his league.


none of this explains how kobe was able to win his championships despite producing much lower stats and personal production than MJ.

after all, the difference in stats and production is not small - the stats prove Jordan had to produce MUCH more than Kobe to win his rings - this can't be explained away by anything other than him having less help.

[Magic 32]

Pippen, But Gasol is an underrated player. One of the best FIBA players, and he had a good case for winning the Finals MVP in 2010.

Only if you blindly looks at stats.

[Smoke117]

Scottie's value or worth as a player doesn't necessarily come from his peak play, although when he was playing, I do remember hearing a few commentators say he was the 2nd best player behind Michael. That is BS when you consider guys like Barkley, Malone, Shaq, Robinson and Ewing were all playing at the time.

Pippen has value in the fact he won a lot on a great team, and is possibly one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. If he played on any other team outside of the Bulls, he probably wouldn't be regarded as highly as he is due to not winning as much. As far as actual players, you have to think Pau is the better player. Maybe not ranked as high as Pippen, but neither is someone like Mitch Richmond, and at his best, he was as good as Pippen ever was.

You are ****ing talking nonsense now. Scottie Pippen was easily the best perimeter player in the league after Jordan retarded through the 93-94 and 94-95 seasons. He was 3rd in MVP, All NBA First team, NBA First Team Defensive in 94 (with the most votes defensively that he would continue for a long time). What the **** are you talking about...Pau Gasol was a better player?

[Da_Realist]

Jordan was in his prime during all his titles. Kobe was not. Jordan had superior talent surrounding him during both their primes.

Jordan is better, but let's not act like Jordan is way better. He simply isn't. MJ is the GOAT, but Kobe is top 5.

LOL at top 5

[stalkerforlife]

LOL at top 5

A little insulting, I know.

I have him at 3rd behind MJ and Kareem, but I say top 5 to not ruffle feathers.

[3ball]

Pau provided at-rim protection, banging inside and rebounding that pippen never could.

[3ball]

also, despite what all the posters itt want to say, many HOF's think Pippen was vastly overrated...

infact, this appears to be the consensus among ex-players - that Scottie was weak.

[3ball]

Jordan had superior talent surrounding him during both their primes.


repeating this doesn't make it true - the stats prove jordan carried the far bigger load.

how could kobe win championships with less help AND far less personal production?

it's impossible.

[navy]

How did the Bulls win so many games when Jordan retired?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Pau provided at-rim protection, banging inside and rebounding that pippen never could.
You mean a center did what a center is supposed to do, and a perimeter player wasn't as good as him at those things? ****ing astounding research man. Tell me more about how the rim protection, banging inside, and rebounding of Dikembe Mutombo makes him better than Jordan.

[3ball]

How did the Bulls win so many games when Jordan retired?


the same reason the Spurs win with otherwise crappy talent - they were just that good of a TEAM - their strategy, team cohesion, confidence, toughness and pride was still at a three-peat level (goat level) and better than everyone else's... also, Jordan's retirement gave the team goat-level motivation to prove themselves, which only enhanced the aforementioned championship characteristics.

of course, these things were only beneficial to the Bulls in the regular season... in the playoffs, teams are equally motivated, more focused, use better strategy, play more cohesively, and basically shore up a lot of the areas where the Bulls enjoyed a regular season advantage... you can't win in the playoffs just by playing harder than everyone else like you can in the regular season.

accordingly, in the playoffs, the Bulls needed Jordan's enormous talent to push them past the stalemate occurring in those other areas... again, look at the Spurs... they play a superior brand of basketball, so they routinely rack up wins without Parker and Duncan in the regular season - but we all know they can't win shit in the playoffs without those guys.

And sure enough, in the end, the Bulls were a run-of-the-mill 2nd round exit team without Jordan, but one of the greatest teams of all time WITH Jordan... think about how big that chasm is - going from one of the greatest teams ever, to a run-of-the-mill 2nd round exit team.... that is a bigger chasm than say, a run-of-the-mill conference finals team dropping to the lottery.

Of course, after losing in 1994, the championship luster was gone... Without the championship confidence, pride, and motivation to prove themselves, the Bulls were a pretty ordinary team in 1995 and just fighting for a playoff spot... until Jordan came back - then they became the greatest team of all time again... :confusedshrug:.

i guess that's what happens when you add the highest producing player EVER to a team that already uses superior strategy.... Jordan didn't need to team-hop and find a "Big 3" when he possessed the adjustability within his game to simply plug in his highest-ever production into a system that was better than everyone else's.
.

[tpols]

Pippen led team wins 55 games and 6 playoff wins. Pau gets you around 50 rs wins and 0 playoff wins. Scottie is a ferocious competitor and mvp candidate.. Pau is tremendously skilled but not near as physically or mentally tough and never quite an mvp candidate.

[navy]

the same reason the Spurs win with otherwise crappy talent - they were just that good of a TEAM - their strategy, team cohesion, confidence, toughness and pride was still at a three-peat level (goat level) and better than everyone else's...
Jordan's supporting cast was GOAT level and better than anyone elses. All I needed to know. :cheers:

How many teams in the league could you take away their best player and still have them win 55 games? Truly outstanding.

[3ball]

All I needed to know. :cheers:


so now i've turned you into a dumb troll... i said those Bulls teams played harder than everyone else because they had something to prove... and they had superior strategy, team cohesion, confidence, toughness and pride that comes with 3-peating.

how do you get "better supporting cast" out of this?... i know... trolling.. that's how.

a lot of fans think games are won by talent alone, which is what you must think...

it's funny to imagine what goes through your head when looking at those Bulls rosters: well, even though my first inclination is to say Longley, Wennington and Kerr suck, they must have been awesome because the team won games."

^^^^^ that's how you think - to you, only talent wins games... based on your approach to the game, the Spurs have the most talented team in the league.

and wait a minute, who do you think carried the bigger load?... kobe or jordan?
.

[ImKobe]

So the consensus is, Jordan had more help than Kobe.

Correct?

1st 3-peat MJ had Pippen putting up 20/8/8 in the Finals

2nd 3-peat MJ had Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Harper

[SouBeachTalents]

1st 3-peat MJ had Pippen putting up 20/8/8 in the Finals

What was Shaq putting up in Kobe's first 3-peat?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Pippen easily. Anyone saying otherwise is a f*cking tool, of the highest order.

[ImKobe]

What was Shaq putting up in Kobe's first 3-peat?
this is about pau

[SamuraiSWISH]

How did the Bulls win so many games when Jordan retired?
3x years of championship experience, great coach, peak Pippen, contract years for Horace, and BJ. And the fact they were out to prove they weren't just players being dragged to rings by Jordan. They overperformed their expectations through out the league.

[3ball]

Playoff Stats for Gasol and Pippen (Bulls stats only for Pippen)


Pau: 20.8 PER, 17.2 pts, 9.7 reb, 3.5 ast, 0.5 stls, 1.9 blk, 51.5% FG, 56.5% TS, 117 ORtg, 0.160 WS/48
Pip: 18.6 PER, 18.1 pts, 7.7 reb, 5.2 ast, 1.9 stls, 0.9 blk, 44.9% FG, 52.6% TS, 108 ORtg, 0.146 WS/48


Pau's are better... WAY better efficiency for one... and paint presence to contest ALL shots as bigs do, which is greater than the perimeter impact Pippen has on his man only.
.

[houston]

pippen of course

[Angel Face]

Lol, Pippen is better and it's not that close. Pippen is getting underrated here. Smh :facepalm

[uber]

so who is better, Barea or Wade?

:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

:lol

http://nsa27.casimages.com/img/2011/09/08/110908041029190258.gif

[Round Mound]

Pippen Get Real...

[hahaitme]

So the consensus is, Jordan had more help than Kobe.

Correct?

No question really

[97 bulls]

Not necessarily. The competition was different, in terms of the makeup of the teams, personnel and even the rules they played under.

MJ had a perimeter oriented team in a big man's league. Kobe had a big team in a perimeter oriented league. In terms of talent, chemistry, bball iq and competitiveness MJ had a lot of help. In terms of having a physical advantage over everyone else, Kobe had more help.

Jordan averaged 33.6 in the Finals because he was the best perimeter scorer in history and his team didn't have a lot of natural scorers. Guys couldn't get a lot of easy baskets by themselves or in crunch time. So MJ filled that gap. Kobe is one of the best perimeter scorers but he had teammates that could also put the ball in the basket. That doesn't mean MJ didn't have a ton of help. The Lakers had no one I'd take over Pippen and Rodman. They knew how to win. They knew when to step up and when to step back. Smart guys that took the game seriously. You can't quantify that easily by looking at how much they scored.

Pau was soft, Bynum was hardly ever motivated and Odom was wildly inconsistent but Pau Gasol and Bynum were 7'0" (Odom was 6'10"). They would hardly ever play teams with even one seven footer, let alone two...even less frequent two seven footers, a 6'10 do everything forward and a perimeter defensive stopper. That's a distinct physical advantage. The Lakers could get away with Kobe shooting 40%, Gasol being pushed around a little bit and Bynum/Odom taking the odd night off.

By contrast, both Pippen and Rodman were listed at 6'8". They were thoroughbreds playing against stallions like Karl Malone, Barkley, Jamal Mashburn, Alonzo Mourning and young Shaq. They held their own but they didn't have a physical advantage so they needed to step up to the plate every single night to maximize the Bulls chances to win.

They both had help. MJ had a better team but Kobe's team had a larger physical advantage over the rest of his league.
How do you figure? Neither Gasol nor Odom set the world on fire offensively. And thats with them having multiple opportunities outside of Kobe as the man.

Saying that, I do agree with your overall assessment.

[97 bulls]

if jordan had more help, why was his production so much higher?... shouldn't his personal production be LOWER if he had more help?

why did Jordan average 33.6 PPG in the Finals (to kobe's 24 PPG) or have a 28.6 PER in the playoffs (to Kobe's 22.4), if he had more help?

just doesn't make any sense.

the reality is that KOBE had more help, which allowed him to win his championships while producing much lower stats and personal production than jordan.
I answered this already. That was Jordan's make up. He clearly didn't have to take as many attempts as he did while playing on the dream team, why? Did he.

[97 bulls]

/this

Only thing comparable is Wade's last two post seasons runs. Scottie wasnt always a spring chicken in the post season as well.
If Wade played through injuries like Pippen, hed be done already. If Pippen played as sparingly as Wade did and does, his stats would be off the charts as well.

[97 bulls]

also, despite what all the posters itt want to say, many HOF's think Pippen was vastly overrated...

infact, this appears to be the consensus among ex-players - that Scottie was weak.
Who has said such?

[Papaya Petee]

If Wade played through injuries like Pippen, hed be done already. If Pippen played as sparingly as Wade did and does, his stats would be off the charts as well.
If Wade played through injuries? Are you ****ing kidding me? He has through the last 3 post seasons. 2012 he gets his knee drained vs Indiana proceeds to score 30,28 and a 41/10 game to close out the Pacers. Then with a bad knee vs one of the best defensive teams in the league Boston he has a 21/5/5 series followed by a 23/6/5 finals vs Thunder playing great aside from game 1. 2013 he could barely walk yet his best games came in 2 closeout games vs Bulls and Pacers. Then proceeds to average 20/5/4 in the finals vs Spurs including a huge 32/6/4 game 4 must win 25/10 game 5 and 23/10 closeout game 7. He could barely walk. How the **** is that not playing through injuries.

Wade>>>Pippen and it's not even close. Only you and like two delusional Bulls fans believe otherwise. Completely different tier of players.

[97 bulls]

If Wade played through injuries? Are you ****ing kidding me? He has through the last 3 post seasons. 2012 he gets his knee drained vs Indiana proceeds to score 30,28 and a 41/10 game to close out the Pacers. Then with a bad knee vs one of the best defensive teams in the league Boston he has a 21/5/5 series followed by a 23/6/5 finals vs Thunder playing great aside from game 1. 2013 he could barely walk yet his best games came in 2 closeout games vs Bulls and Pacers. Then proceeds to average 20/5/4 in the finals vs Spurs including a huge 32/6/4 game 4 must win 25/10 game 5 and 23/10 closeout game 7. He could barely walk. How the **** is that not playing through injuries.

Wade>>>Pippen and it's not even close. Only you and like two delusional Bulls fans believe otherwise. Completely different tier of players.
I was answering the post as far as their regular season stats. Wades minutes are limited, he gets nights off, and he sits out if his teammate has a hang nail on his pinky. He brittle.

If he played anywhere near as many games as Pippen did from 91 to 98, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he has. Pippen went to six finals, two semi finals, and played on two dream teams in that span.

[97 bulls]

the same reason the Spurs win with otherwise crappy talent - they were just that good of a TEAM - their strategy, team cohesion, confidence, toughness and pride was still at a three-peat level (goat level) and better than everyone else's... also, Jordan's retirement gave the team goat-level motivation to prove themselves, which only enhanced the aforementioned championship characteristics.

of course, these things were only beneficial to the Bulls in the regular season... in the playoffs, teams are equally motivated, more focused, use better strategy, play more cohesively, and basically shore up a lot of the areas where the Bulls enjoyed a regular season advantage... you can't win in the playoffs just by playing harder than everyone else like you can in the regular season.

accordingly, in the playoffs, the Bulls needed Jordan's enormous talent to push them past the stalemate occurring in those other areas... again, look at the Spurs... they play a superior brand of basketball, so they routinely rack up wins without Parker and Duncan in the regular season - but we all know they can't win shit in the playoffs without those guys.

And sure enough, in the end, the Bulls were a run-of-the-mill 2nd round exit team without Jordan, but one of the greatest teams of all time WITH Jordan... think about how big that chasm is - going from one of the greatest teams ever, to a run-of-the-mill 2nd round exit team.... that is a bigger chasm than say, a run-of-the-mill conference finals team dropping to the lottery.

Of course, after losing in 1994, the championship luster was gone... Without the championship confidence, pride, and motivation to prove themselves, the Bulls were a pretty ordinary team in 1995 and just fighting for a playoff spot... until Jordan came back - then they became the greatest team of all time again... :confusedshrug:.

i guess that's what happens when you add the highest producing player EVER to a team that already uses superior strategy.... Jordan didn't need to team-hop and find a "Big 3" when he possessed the adjustability within his game to simply plug in his highest-ever production into a system that was better than everyone else's.
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The Bulls were on pace to win 44 games before Jordan came back in 95. You dont think theyd win at least 50 if they still had Grant? They were a great team outside of Jordan.

[3ball]

The Bulls were on pace to win 44 games before Jordan came back in 95. You dont think theyd win at least 50 if they still had Grant? They were a great team outside of Jordan.
just not great enough to prevent him from having to take on the largest load ever - 33.6ppg playoffs and 0.255 WS/48, among other key stats.
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[OldSchoolBBall]

Yes, I'm sure Jordan didn't have to score as much as he did. I'm sure Pippen - he of the 39-41% shooting in the playoffs from '96-'8 and 50% TS in the '93 playoffs - would have picked up the slack at an efficient rate. :rolleyes:

[Kblaze8855]

You really see the worst in fans when they get motivated to hate on the guys their favorite players needed to succeed. Kobe fans and Pau/Shaq...Jordan fans with Pippen.

Its a borderline disgrace.

[Smoke117]

You really see the worst in fans when they get motivated to hate on the guys their favorite players needed to succeed. Kobe fans and Pau/Shaq...Jordan fans with Pippen.

Its a borderline disgrace.

No shit. Oldschoolbball really has the audacity to bring up the 93 playoffs? The Bulls wouldn't even have gotten past the Knicks if not for Pippen having a great series and hitting every big shot in the 93 series.