Spurs back-to-back 3 OT / GOTY Candidates vs. Grizzlies & Blazers (Home, 2 L's)

[ArbitraryWater]

17.12.2014 vs. Memphis Grizzlies: 116-117 3OT
19.12.2014 vs. Portland Trail Blazers: 119-129 2OT

Highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X265E0pRq2k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozVb0pKpoAM

Both games played without TONY PARKER, KAWHI LEONARD, and Patty Mills (POR missed Batum/Lopez).

The Spurs are now the West's 7th seed at 17-10.

Should this be a concern for the team, or nothing to worry about considering they missed their perhaps 2 best players and another key piece?

Remember this may be the GOAT conference, we have the Thunder creeping up from behind, but the Spurs can beat anyone, HCA or not.

Is there a possibility of the 2015 WC Standings with the Spurs at 7 and Thunder at 8?

I would love to see that.


BTW, next 6 Spurs games: @ Mavericks, vs. Clippers, vs. Thunder, @ Pelicans, vs. Rockets, @ Grizzlies

[keep-itreal]

They should be very concerned cause they might not even make the playoffs this season:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

They should be very concerned cause they might not even make the playoffs this season:lol

Nah, I don't think thats really a possibility..

The top 8 are pretty much set with Warriors/Grizzlies/Blazers/Rockets/Mavericks/Clippers/Spurs/Thunder (These are all 60-win caliber teams smh).

A low seed is, though.

[T_L_P]

We're the 7th seed, and a few games in hand above the 8th seed.

I don't really care what seed we are as long as we're healthy in the Playoffs; same as OKC. I'd rather be the 8th seed with Splitter than the 1st seed without him.

Btw, Parker isn't close to being our best or second best player. Duncan and Danny have been our best players this season. They've absolutely carried us the past 3-4 weeks, with Kawhi missing a bunch of games. CoJo is playing better than Parker is this season, tbh.

[ArbitraryWater]

We're the 7th seed, and a few games in hand above the 8th seed.

I don't really care what seed we are as long as we're healthy in the Playoffs; same as OKC. I'd rather be the 8th seed with Splitter than the 1st seed without him.

Btw, Parker isn't close to being our best or second best player. Duncan and Danny have been our best players this season. They've absolutely carried us the past 3-4 weeks, with Kawhi missing a bunch of games. CoJo is playing better than Parker is this season, tbh.

Kawhi (healthy) IMO would be clearly your best player.. For TP, as far as production goes this far, he's definitely not that close. But this are the Spurs.. anyone can be MVP any night, and carry the team for stretches. I think overall as the season progresses, he will be more of a key for their success than Danny or Timmy.

[T_L_P]

Kawhi (healthy) IMO would be clearly your best player.. For TP, as far as production goes this far, he's definitely not that close. But this are the Spurs.. anyone can be MVP any night, and carry the team for stretches. I think overall as the season progresses, he will be more of a key for their success than Danny or Timmy.

Eh, I find it hard to believe you've watched enough of us then (regarding Tony, Kawhi is probably our best player when healthy).

The untold storyline of the season is he has been horrible on the floor. Like I said, CoJo has been our best PG this season, without question...so think about where that leaves him. Clearly not in that Kawhi/Duncan/Danny (so far for Danny) class.

How you think he impacts or potentially impacts the game more than the guy who is keeping us a top 3 defensive team without our second best defensive player (Splitter) is beyond me. :confusedshrug:

Your love for Kawhi is great. He's a max player and top five perimeter defender in the league...but Tony Parker hasn't been elite since 2012-13...which is why I'm questioning your motives (you called Duncan a role player and Parker our second best player last Playoffs too). :confusedshrug:

EDIT: I should say, Kawhi is our best player when healthy. That's a given (though, at this point, it should be a lot clearer than it is).

[BuffaloBill]

This doesn't really worry me. There was a stretch last year where they went 12-10 or something, then they went on to win 20 games straight. Going on a bad stretch then finding their groove late in the season has become pretty commonplace for the Spurs. This is nothing for Spurs fans, playing this bad and not being healthy and still only being 6 games behind the #1 seed at this point in the season actually makes me feel pretty comfortable. It's better to be like this at the beginning of the season because you know they will pick it up and be healthy towards the end most likely.


Spurs are 7th seed by the way, and a few games ahead of the 8th.

[VengefulAngel]

Eh, I find it hard to believe you've watched enough of us then (regarding Tony, Kawhi is probably our best player when healthy).

The untold storyline of the season is he has been horrible on the floor. Like I said, CoJo has been our best PG this season, without question...so think about where that leaves him. Clearly not in that Kawhi/Duncan/Danny (so far for Danny) class.

How you think he impacts or potentially impacts the game more than the guy who is keeping us a top 3 defensive team without our second best defensive player (Splitter) is beyond me. :confusedshrug:

Your love for Kawhi is great. He's a max player and top five perimeter defender in the league...but Tony Parker hasn't been elite since 2012-13...which is why I'm questioning your motives (you called Duncan a role player and Parker our second best player last Playoffs too).

We looked deadlier last season with Patty running the offense and Parker on the bench...which is the only time we can truly run our offense (Parker can be a Kobe-like ball stopper).

Agreed Tony has been terrible this season, Pop needs to do what he did last season with him and give him a rest, seeding really shouldn't matter that much if they're all healthy. Post all star break they can concentrate on fine tuning for the play-offs.

[ImKobe]

Lakers will rush from behind to knock the Spurs out of the 8th spot to avenge the 2013 first round series sweep, Kobe ruins the Spurs repeat championship yet again (see: 2004. 2008)

[ArbitraryWater]

Eh, I find it hard to believe you've watched enough of us then (regarding Tony, Kawhi is probably our best player when healthy).

The untold storyline of the season is he has been horrible on the floor. Like I said, CoJo has been our best PG this season, without question...so think about where that leaves him. Clearly not in that Kawhi/Duncan/Danny (so far for Danny) class.

How you think he impacts or potentially impacts the game more than the guy who is keeping us a top 3 defensive team without our second best defensive player (Splitter) is beyond me. :confusedshrug:

Your love for Kawhi is great. He's a max player and top five perimeter defender in the league...but Tony Parker hasn't been elite since 2012-13...which is why I'm questioning your motives (you called Duncan a role player and Parker our second best player last Playoffs too).

We looked deadlier last season with Patty running the offense and Parker on the bench...which is the only time we can truly run our offense (Parker can be a Kobe-like ball stopper).


As far as the entire last season went?

Yes, there were just too many nights were I saw the Spurs clicking regardless of what Duncan did...

Duncan's first 10 games: 11/7 on 37%

Spurs Record: 9-1 (won both games TD sat out during that span)

He had 5-point halfs in the playoffs and the team was blowing the opponent out.. And when he did score, most of it seemed to come off the penetration of mainly Ginobili and Parker. He doesn't have to carry any load offensively.

Also, I think he isn't the single one that keeps this Spurs defense afloat. By now, they have 4 of the very best defenders in the NBA with Duncan, Kawhi, Green, Splitter.

None the less his longevity is impressive and he remains a key piece.

Edit: of course, Spurs are 7th seed my bad.

[BuffaloBill]

Agreed Tony has been terrible this season, Pop needs to do what he did last season with him and give him a rest, seeding really shouldn't matter that much if they're all healthy. Post all star break they can concentrate on fine tuning for the play-offs.



Tony hasn't even been bad this season. He's only played 2 games in the past 3 weeks, before that he was fine. Minus the injuries, he's been his normal self :confusedshrug:

[T_L_P]

As far as the entire last season went?

Yes, there were just too many nights were I saw the Spurs clicking regardless of what Duncan did...

Duncan's first 11 games: 11/7 on 37%

Spurs Record: 9-1

He had 5-point halfs in the playoffs and the team was blowing the opponent out.. And when he did score, most of it seemed to come off the penetration of mainly Ginobili and Parker. He doesn't have to carry any load offensively.

Also, I think he isn't the single one that keeps this Spurs defense afloat. By now, they have 4 of the very best defenders in the NBA with Duncan, Kawhi, Green, Splitter

As far as the entire last season went...Kawhi was by far our best player in the Regular Season (not even close). Though, I'm curious to know if you know why Duncan played like that through 11 games?

But really, the only important thing for these guys is the Playoffs. Duncan was at worst the second best Spur in the Playoffs (I wrote a very long post explaining why which you conceded to). Parker has one of the worst "superstar" (read: he wasn't one) Playoff runs ever when balanced with Usage %, and we looked visibly better with him on the bench (shit...we won a damn game without him). Remember when he gunned for Finals MVP in game 5, going 0-10 or some shit (until garbage time, where he padded him some stats).

I'm talking about this season now. Parker hasn't been good. It's a fact at this point. He's deteriorating quickly.

I agree that we have four of the best defenders. But I said Splitter has been out. Look at our defensive frontline with Duncan on the bench and Splitter out. Diaw/Baynes/Ayres/Bonner get murdered on the glass and by the oppositions' bigs. Pop is leaning on Duncan right now like it's 06. He couldn't even buy him a minute in the past 6 OTs (until the game was decided last night). :confusedshrug: He's averaging 16/11/3/2 at 38 years old whilst Parker is sitting with a sore ******.

[ArbitraryWater]

As far as the entire last season went...Kawhi was by far our best player in the Regular Season (not even close). Though, I'm curious to know if you know why Duncan played like that through 11 games?

But really, the only important thing for these guys is the Playoffs. Duncan was at worst the second best Spur in the Playoffs (I wrote a very long post explaining why which you conceded to). Parker has one of the worst "superstar" (read: he wasn't one) Playoff runs ever when balanced with Usage %, and we looked visibly better with him on the bench (shit...we won a damn game without him). Remember when he gunned for Finals MVP in game 5, going 0-10 or some shit (until garbage time, where he padded him some stats).

I'm talking about this season now. Parker hasn't been good. It's a fact at this point. He's deteriorating quickly.

I agree that we have four of the best defenders. But I said Splitter has been out. Look at our defensive frontline with Duncan on the bench and Splitter out. Diaw/Baynes/Ayres/Bonner get murdered on the glass and by the oppositions' bigs. Pop is leaning on Duncan right now like it's 06. He couldn't even buy him a minute in the past 6 OTs (until the game was decided last night). :confusedshrug: He's averaging 16/11/3/2 at 38 years old whilst Parker is sitting with a sore ******.

I don't think Tony is that bad.. he's sustained an injury, but will be back at his 17 ppg / 6 apg, and he's still efficient.

As far as that game, would gice credit to LeBron who effectively guarded him through 3 quarters. Once he was off of him, TP got something going for him in the 4th.

What Duncan is doing right now is not as spectacular as you make it out to be, really. Parker who played hurt a few games is still averaging more ppg AND is more efficient than Duncan. "sore ******" smh why you dislike the dude so much.

[T_L_P]

I don't think Tony is that bad.. he's sustained an injury, but will be back at his 17 ppg / 6 apg, and he's still efficient.

As far as that game, would gice credit to LeBron who effectively guarded him through 3 quarters. Once he was off of him, TP got something going for him in the 4th.

What Duncan is doing right now is not as spectacular as you make it out to be, really. Parker who played hurt a few games is still averaging more ppg AND is more efficient than Duncan. "sore ******" smh why you dislike the dude so much.

You've just said everything that needs to be said. Seeing 17 PPG / 6 APG means absolutely nothing. It's a fact that the team performs better with Patty running the offense. It's a fact that he had a terrible Playoff run last year. It's a fact that he has had very little impact on the floor this year.

I don't like Parker. I've admitted that. He's not a true leader, he doesn't seem to be a supportive teammate (Brent Barry saga was pathetic and he all but threw Danny under the bus against Brooklyn), and he can be a ball-stopper or, even worse, chucker (LeBron guarded him very well, yet he still decided to try and win on his own and get his precious Finals MVP trophy).

I've got nothing but respect for Kawhi, what you think of him (until you start calling him a better defensive player than Duncan or Splitter, who a 7 footers), and what he does on the floor. He hustles, plays defense, gets his shots in the flow of the offense, isn't a distraction, truly impacts the game. But what you think about Parker, particularly this season, is all out of whack. Eventually we're gonna start winning games in-spite of him, which is the worst position possible for a team. Cory Joseph is having a better season, so saying Parker is in that Kawhi/Duncan class is a flat-out insult to them (guys who do what they're asked and play on both ends).

[BuffaloBill]

You're crazy man (TLP), I know most Spurs fans love to hate on Parker, but You're crazy as shit if you think the Spurs are gonna win anything with CoJo getting big minutes. Tony is still one of the most efficient scorers in the league (even this season). Parker can still bring the Spurs back to life when the old move the ball around until you find the open 3 point shooter isn't working. You aren't gonna get that kind of impact with just Cojo/Mills.


I agree Parker wasn't that effective in the finals, but that's because they didn't really need him to be, Playing against teams like the Heat, you rely more on ball movement and 3 point shooting, which is why having Manu/Mills/Green/Diaw on the floor was so effective in the finals. But other than that, TP has been our main driving force on offense, especially when the 3 isn't falling. The Spurs will continue to rely heavily on Tony in those situations, there's not one other player on this team right now who will do it. Kawhi has started developing into that player but he can't do it alone the same way Tony has been able to fuel the offense the past few years.


Despite what happened in the finals last year, I guarantee the Spurs will not go far in the playoffs without a healthy Parker.

[Anaximandro1]

the west is stacked and the Spurs need a healthy Parker ... he has the ability to create his own shot, adds a level of unpredictability, but contributes nothing at the defensive end.

the most valuable players are Duncan and Leonard, multidimensional players who contribute on both ends of the floor.


Spurs 2014-15

Duncan 15.8 pt / 11.0 reb / 3.1 as / 2.3 blk / 1.0 stl

Leonard 15.2 pt / 7.6 reb/ 2.5 as / 0.8 blk / 2.0 stl

Parker 16.0 pt/ 1.7 rb/ 5.3 as / 0.1 blk / 0.6 stl



Duncan and Leonard are truly elite. For example:


NBA 2014-15 - Real Plus Minus

Power Forward

1) Duncan 7.11

2) Davis 5.74

--------------------

Small Forward

1) Leonard 5.52

2) LeBron 4.73


Moreover ...


Spurs 2014-15


Real Plus Minus

Duncan 7.11

Leonard 5.52

Green 3.42

Ginobili 2.13

Parker -2.91



Wins Above Replacement

Duncan 3.75

Leonard 3.29

Green 2.52

Ginobili 1.42

Parker - 0.21


PER

Duncan 22.7

Leonard 19.3

Parker 16.9

Green 16.6

Ginobili 15.5


Win Shares

Duncan 2.9

Green 2.8

Leonard 2.4

Parker 1.4

Ginobili 1.2




The Spurs are now the West's 7th seed at 17-10.

Should this be a concern for the team

The only concern for the Spurs is health

they have elite talent, deep bench, best chemistry in NBA, experience, good coaching staff ...



I'm proud of the whole team and what they have done, Popovich said. "It's a different group every night. It would almost be better if you had two guys injured and you knew it for three months. It is different every night, and it keeps them out of rhythm. We are wearing some guys down, though. Timmy is a big worry in that respect, and so is Manu (Ginobili). (But) I'm really proud of them, and they did a great job under tough circumstances.

[GimmeThat]

they should be concerned about their depth of rotation being exposed so early in the season

[BuffaloBill]

they should be concerned about their depth of rotation being exposed so early in the season


Losing 3/4 players who normally play big minutes would be a hit to any team in the NBA. Spurs are still above .600, with over 50 games left to get back into shape. I'm sure the only thing the Spurs are worried about is what they're having for breakfast tomorrow morning.

[rmt]

the west is stacked and the Spurs need a healthy Parker ... he has the ability to create his own shot, adds a level of unpredictability, but contributes nothing at the defensive end.

the most valuable players are Duncan and Leonard, multidimensional players who contribute on both ends of the floor.




Duncan and Leonard are truly elite. For example:




Moreover ...







The only concern for the Spurs is health

they have elite talent, deep bench, best chemistry in NBA, experience, good coaching staff ...

I agree with this. Spurs are missing TP's offense (can't say much about his defense) and more importantly, Leonard's 2 way play. They just need to make the playoffs and be healthy. It would help to have some kind of rhythm going into the playoff as they're probably going to play a top seed. That's okay though - the only team I really fear is OKC because of their youth, athleticism, KD, and Westbrooke. Dallas is probably next because of their shooting and Carlisle. But it seems that all 3 will probably be lower seeds and not face each other in the 1st round.

[SCdac]

oh the joys of being a Spurs fan :oldlol:

for real though I've been watching this team since I was a kid so a couple tough losses in the RS were just a drop in the bucket. Still tough losses. Spurs need these types of games to get better though. Everybody's got to be on point. Ginobili made a bunch of mistakes but if there's anything to appreciate about him is that he's very hard on himself and takes the game seriously. If Spurs are fully healthy come the playoffs think they'll go deep. The talent is definitely evenly distributed so they need everybody. Both Kawhi and Tiago are really important (yet both seem moderately injury prone). When Splitter scores at least 11 points (RS and Playoffs) Spurs are 73-19, and when he scores at least 15 they're 25-4. Not a huge amount of games but it's indicative of his impact. His minutes will probably increase gradually or in certain matchups. Need Parker's slashing, and his jumper over the years has become very reliable. Spurs are coming off back-to-back Finals appearances so I don't question the roster itself as much as health/fatigue, less motivation, and extraneous stuff.

[ArbitraryWater]

TLP went a bit too far when he said the Spurs would be winning in spite of Parker, and basically made him out to be a detriment to the team :lol

Ironically just the same day we get a thread called "Spurs are garbage without Parker".

[BuffaloBill]

TLP went a bit too far when he said the Spurs would be winning in spite of Parker, and basically made him out to be a detriment to the team :lol

Ironically just the same day we get a thread called "Spurs are garbage without Parker".



I love all my Spurs brothers but TLP couldn't be more wrong.

[ArbitraryWater]

I love all my Spurs brothers but TLP couldn't be more wrong.

Spurs fans are cool except those rodrigolac and jlamb dudes

[T_L_P]

TLP went a bit too far when he said the Spurs would be winning in spite of Parker, and basically made him out to be a detriment to the team :lol

Ironically just the same day we get a thread called "Spurs are garbage without Parker".

To be fair, I did say eventually. I'm definitely not saying we've been at that stage since Parker's prime (around 07, before then we were). I just said we were deadlier with Patty out there.

We won one of the biggest games of the Duncan era with Parker on the bench (in a deficit when he left iirc). Regular Season games mean very little in the grand scheme of things; teams aren't playing all out, players are missing, etc etc. But to win a Playoff game without your best or second best player, against a stacked OKC team? How do you go from that to being a lottery team without him?

I'm being harsh on Parker for sure...he was much better last Regular Season (13-14). But as far as this RS is concerned, everything I said stands.

The offense is better per 100 possessions when Parker is off the floor. So is the defense. He's currently 12th on the team in Box Plus/Minus (ahead of Anderson and Daye). He's 352nd in league RPM (Duncan is 2nd in the entire NBA/#1 in DRPM [which is why I took offense when you said Parker is better than him], Kawhi is 8th, Green in 28th, Manu is 45th), and he's somewhere similar in RAPM (will find the source on that). He's been ineffective this year when on the floor. :confusedshrug:

Like I said above, I was definitely too harsh on Parker last year. Even watching him, he looked a lot better. :cheers:

[SCdac]

To be fair to the critics of Parker... Spurs have clearly gone away from putting too much of a load on Parker... TP averaged 29.4 mpg in 68 games last season lol ... And Spurs won 62 games!

[BuffaloBill]

If anything, you would think Ginobili would get more hate. Manu is still my favorite basketball player of all time but anytime the game is on the line and the ball is in his hands, I'm prepared for the worst.

[SCdac]

If anything, you would think Ginobili would get more hate. Manu is still my favorite basketball player of all time but anytime the game is on the line and the ball is in his hands, I'm prepared for the worst.

to be sure, he's 'hated' on alot when he makes mistakes

But I think he gets less hate because Ginobili is 37 approaching 38, while Parker is kind of in the second half of his prime (or final third of his prime)

[ArbitraryWater]

Spurs now lost 6 of their last 7 (close W vs. Clippers), and gotta face the Rockets tonight, and then the Grizzlies IN MEMPHIS...

7th seed at 18-13, could possibly be 18-15 soon.

[VengefulAngel]

Spurs now lost 6 of their last 7 (close W vs. Clippers), and gotta face the Rockets tonight, and then the Grizzlies IN MEMPHIS...

7th seed at 18-13, could possibly be 18-15 soon.


This is actually really worrying, a low seed against any western conference is gonna be tough work, but one thing I have learned throughout the year's is never doubt that Pop won't at least get 50 wins.