Larry Bird Greatest Games: 43 Points in 29 Minutes vs Cavaliers (1986)

[Round Mound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvItrKX9-4k

Bird in his prime playing on the greatest team ever, 1986 Celtics. 43 points in 29 minutes of basketball greatness, 17/24 FG, 5/6 FG

:bowdown:

[StrongLurk]

Honestly, I can't believe how terrible that defense is. Like, I know people exaggerate how bad defense was in the '80s..but that seriously is the laziest defense I've seen in awhile. It seemed like the other team didn't care AT ALL about guarding someone.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Honestly, I can't believe how terrible that defense is. Like, I know people exaggerate how bad defense was in the '80s..but that seriously is the laziest defense I've seen in awhile. It seemed like the other team didn't care AT ALL about guarding someone.

One of the worst teams, that season, going up against what many call the GOAT team (Cavs got absolutely destroyed on both ends, just quickly check the boxscore) and you're only watching highlights/best-plays/made FG's... I can show you worse from this year for example, but anyways...

[J Shuttlesworth]

Wow, that's Harden-esque :bowdown:

http://i.imgur.com/8UDjFV4.png

[ArbitraryWater]

Wow, that's Harden-esque :bowdown:

http://i.imgur.com/8UDjFV4.png

haha you ****er I was waiting for him to hit 43+ and be like "almost as good as Harden" :oldlol:

[J Shuttlesworth]

haha you ****er I was waiting for him to hit 43+ and be like "almost as good as Harden" :oldlol:
I doubt Larry had 5 steals and 7 assists

Harden > Bird ayy lmao

[Round Mound]

I doubt Larry had 5 steals and 7 assists

Harden > Bird ayy lmao

:roll:

[Milbuck]

Honestly, I can't believe how terrible that defense is. Like, I know people exaggerate how bad defense was in the '80s..but that seriously is the laziest defense I've seen in awhile. It seemed like the other team didn't care AT ALL about guarding someone.
It's like a high school defense guarding an NBA team. Just atrocious.

[ArbitraryWater]

the defense is pretty bad..

I love how fatal loved Bird, but he kept it real about 80's defense.

[Milbuck]

the defense is pretty bad..

I love how fatal loved Bird, but he kept it real about 80's defense.
I love how anyone who questions the 80s gets torn to shreds by older bball fans, any criticism you bring up gets dismissed completely and you get labeled "ignorant, too young to appreciate it, don't know what you're talking about, etc etc etc"...When there's visible evidence behind a lot of it, like the defense being garbage, like in the video in the OP.

And if we're going to call the 86 Cavs a garbage team, not indicative of 80s defense..why hype up this performance then? What makes this performance any greater than Kevin Love putting up 51 points, making huge clutch plays and carrying his (bad) team to double OT, just coming up short against the finals-level Thunder with Durant, Westbrook, and Harden combining for 110?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Honestly that defense wasn't any worse than the Raptor "defense" Kobe dropped 81 deuces on.

There was a Bird video posted by me a couple days ago, against Rodman and the Pistons, where dude made some ridiculous and heavily contested shots. Is what it is.

[DCL]

so effortless like he was just practicing by himself in the gym

[3ball]

being guarded by roy hinson, a super-athletic wing that routinely amassed over 100 dunks per season (since the data was first tracked in the 80's, only 10-15 guys each season get over 100 dunks)...

hinson also had a few season with over 2 blocks per game... bird drops 43 on him and it couldn't look or be any easier... most skilled player ever.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I love how anyone who questions the 80s gets torn to shreds by older bball fans, any criticism you bring up gets dismissed completely and you get labeled "ignorant, too young to appreciate it, don't know what you're talking about, etc etc etc"...When there's visible evidence behind a lot of it, like the defense being garbage, like in the video in the OP.

And if we're going to call the 86 Cavs a garbage team, not indicative of 80s defense..why hype up this performance then? What makes this performance any greater than Kevin Love putting up 51 points, making huge clutch plays and carrying his (bad) team to double OT, just coming up short against the finals-level Thunder with Durant, Westbrook, and Harden combining for 110?

When it comes to people like you, who don't really know what they're talking about, and many times just blindly hate... Criticism and dismissiveness is totally justified.

Visible evidence? Defense being garbage (in the era)? What, again, judging by this one video? :rolleyes: :facepalm Video where you only see FG's-made and highlight plays, where you got one of the GOAT teams against one of the worst teams that season?
:wtf:
Goddamn, you people are so dumb... I can show you plenty of worse stuff/defense from just this year, and much better from back then, plus a type of (physical) defense that would have some stars from today "shooked".
Like others have said here, not even all that bad as you make it seem, seen plenty worse.

I don't get why DRtg has remained pretty much the same since the 1980's with this so called advanced defenses, oh and going by that, the 60's/70's are easily the best defensive era... or just worse offense? :confusedshrug:
And teams in the 80's, on average, employed better team ball, better ball movement, better use of mismatches, less "dumb" shots; stuff that you see the Spurs get lot of praise for nowadays, while they've won it all without top5 players, doing just that... Tougher to defend against that "type" of basketball/offense.

You look at last years Finals and you check one finalist just completely destroying the other, going all wild on offense to the point where it got embarrassing, setting records and shit... must be the worst defensive era :confusedshrug:

Hype up this performance? In what way? It's just "another" Bird performance, always cool to see because footage from that era is not nearly as much as nowadays, uploader had some work to find and edit it all... nobody is acting like it's one of the GOAT performances, not remotely close to one of Larry's best, just another good performance from him and always cool to see if you're a basketball fan, Larry was a bball savant.
Nobody is comparing it to any other performance... Although I can name some of Bird's best performances, and what he has done throughout his career, just "shitting" on the players you've mentioned, but let's talk about Kevin Love or whoever here :rolleyes:

And Bird + the Celtics did what was expected against a team of that caliber... completely demolished them.
Oh, and if this was your favorite team/players, you'd be drooling and hyping the shit out of it :oldlol:




being guarded by roy hinson, a super-athletic wing that routinely amassed over 100 dunks per season (since the data was first tracked in the 80's, only 10-15 guys each season get over 100 dunks)...

hinson also had a few season with over 2 blocks per game... bird drops 43 on him and it couldn't look or be any easier... most skilled player ever.

True.

[Audio One]

The greatest team ever my ass, they're not even the best Celtics club ever, let alone the fact they didn't repeat. The '67 Sixers and those early 70's Knicks teams would've CRUSHED this team, and I'd put good money on the '83 Sixers and '01 Lakers as well

[SHAQisGOAT]

The greatest team ever my ass, they're not even the best Celtics club ever, let alone the fact they didn't repeat. The '67 Sixers and those early 70's Knicks teams would've CRUSHED this team, and I'd put good money on the '83 Sixers and '01 Lakers as well

Why not just post as Laz? :rolleyes:

[Round Mound]

When it comes to people like you, who don't really know what they're talking about, and many times just blindly hate... Criticism and dismissiveness is totally justified.

Visible evidence? Defense being garbage (in the era)? What, again, judging by this one video? :rolleyes: :facepalm Video where you only see FG's-made and highlight plays, where you got one of the GOAT teams against one of the worst teams that season?
:wtf:
Goddamn, you people are so dumb... I can show you plenty of worse stuff/defense from just this year, and much better from back then, plus a type of (physical) defense that would have some stars from today "shooked".
Like others have said here, not even all that bad as you make it seem, seen plenty worse.

I don't get why DRtg has remained pretty much the same since the 1980's with this so called advanced defenses, oh and going by that, the 60's/70's are easily the best defensive era... or just worse offense? :confusedshrug:
And teams in the 80's, on average, employed better team ball, better ball movement, better use of mismatches, less "dumb" shots; stuff that you see the Spurs get lot of praise for nowadays, while they've won it all without top5 players, doing just that... Tougher to defend against that "type" of basketball/offense.

You look at last years Finals and you check one finalist just completely destroying the other, going all wild on offense to the point where it got embarrassing, setting records and shit... must be the worst defensive era :confusedshrug:

Hype up this performance? In what way? It's just "another" Bird performance, always cool to see because footage from that era is not nearly as much as nowadays, uploader had some work to find and edit it all... nobody is acting like it's one of the GOAT performances, not remotely close to one of Larry's best, just another good performance from him and always cool to see if you're a basketball fan, Larry was a bball savant.
Nobody is comparing it to any other performance... Although I can name some of Bird's best performances, and what he has done throughout his career, just "shitting" on the players you've mentioned, but let's talk about Kevin Love or whoever here :rolleyes:

And Bird + the Celtics did what was expected against a team of that caliber... completely demolished them.
Oh, and if this was your favorite team/players, you'd be drooling and hyping the shit out of it :oldlol:





True.

:applause:

[Milbuck]

When it comes to people like you, who don't really know what they're talking about, and many times just blindly hate... Criticism and dismissiveness is totally justified.

Visible evidence? Defense being garbage (in the era)? What, again, judging by this one video? :rolleyes: :facepalm Video where you only see FG's-made and highlight plays, where you got one of the GOAT teams against one of the worst teams that season?
"Blindly hate"...a video was posted of a Larry Bird game, and the defense was garbage. It was pointed out by multiple posters besides myself.

“All you have to do is look at the stats,”...“There’s better shooting back then, better defense now." - Larry Bird

"Offenses are a little more complex because the defenses have forced that," Ainge says. "In the '80s, defense was important but you didn't do as much double-teaming, you didn't do as much trapping. You played guys straight up."
"I love the game today,"..."I love the energy. I love the defensive intensity. Coaches and teams have more resources, more scouting, more technology. I think it's an evolution of the game." - Danny Ainge

It's just me, Danny Ainge, blindly talking shit.

Goddamn, you people are so dumb... I can show you plenty of worse stuff/defense from just this year, and much better from back then, plus a type of (physical) defense that would have some stars from today "shooked".
Like others have said here, not even all that bad as you make it seem, seen plenty worse.Yes, because physicality = defense. That's all there is to it. Show me the footage. I'm excited to see these monstrous defenses outside of the obvious, predictable example of the Pistons. What vicious defenses would lock up the Duncans, the Lebrons, the Kobes of recent years and have them shaking in their sneakers.

I don't get why DRtg has remained pretty much the same since the 1980's with this so called advanced defenses, oh and going by that, the 60's/70's are easily the best defensive era... or just worse offense? :confusedshrug:
And teams in the 80's, on average, employed better team ball, better ball movement, better use of mismatches, less "dumb" shots; stuff that you see the Spurs get lot of praise for nowadays, while they've won it all without top5 players, doing just that... Tougher to defend against that "type" of basketball/offense.

You look at last years Finals and you check one finalist just completely destroying the other, going all wild on offense to the point where it got embarrassing, setting records and shit... must be the worst defensive era :confusedshrug:
Garbage argument :oldlol: The Miami Heat got shredded by the Spurs because they were old as shit and breaking down. That same team the year prior, the prior to that, etc had one of the most vicious defenses in the league, particularly with their perimeter trapping defense. The Heat's demolition in 2014 had nothing to do with modern defensive principles, it had everything to do with them breaking down like the old, worn out geezers they were, and San Antonio executing almost perfectly at the absolute perfect time. There's a reason that same team took SA to an incredible 7 game series just the year prior.



Hype up this performance? In what way? It's just "another" Bird performance, always cool to see because footage from that era is not nearly as much as nowadays, uploader had some work to find and edit it all... nobody is acting like it's one of the GOAT performances, not remotely close to one of Larry's best, just another good performance from him and always cool to see.
Nobody is comparing it to any other performance... Although I can name some of Bird's best performances, and what he has done throughout his career, just "shitting" on the players you've mentioned, but let's talk about Kevin Love or whoever here :rolleyes:

And Bird + the Celtics did what was expected against a team of that caliber... completely demolished them.
Oh, and if this was your favorite team/players, you'd be drooling and hyping the shit out of it :oldlol:
Uh no, I really wouldn't hype them up. People hype up Kobe's 81 despite it being against a shitty Raptors team, because it's freaking 81 points in a game. No one is hyping up random 40 point games by Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, etc on stacked teams beating up on bad teams.

[SHAQisGOAT]

"Blindly hate"...a video was posted of a Larry Bird game, and the defense was garbage. It was pointed out by multiple posters besides myself.

“All you have to do is look at the stats,”...“There’s better shooting back then, better defense now." - Larry Bird

"Offenses are a little more complex because the defenses have forced that," Ainge says. "In the '80s, defense was important but you didn't do as much double-teaming, you didn't do as much trapping. You played guys straight up."
"I love the game today,"..."I love the energy. I love the defensive intensity. Coaches and teams have more resources, more scouting, more technology. I think it's an evolution of the game." - Danny Ainge

It's just me, Danny Ainge, blindly talking shit.
Yes, because physicality = defense. That's all there is to it. Show me the footage. I'm excited to see these monstrous defenses outside of the obvious, predictable example of the Pistons. What vicious defenses would lock up the Duncans, the Lebrons, the Kobes of recent years and have them shaking in their sneakers.

Garbage argument :oldlol: The Miami Heat got shredded by the Spurs because they were old as shit and breaking down. That same team the year prior, the prior to that, etc had one of the most vicious defenses in the league, particularly with their perimeter trapping defense. The Heat's demolition in 2014 had nothing to do with modern defensive principles, it had everything to do with them breaking down like the old, worn out geezers they were, and San Antonio executing almost perfectly at the absolute perfect time. There's a reason that same team took SA to an incredible 7 game series just the year prior.


Uh no, I really wouldn't hype them up. People hype up Kobe's 81 despite it being against a shitty Raptors team, because it's freaking 81 points in a game. No one is hyping up random 40 point games by Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, etc on stacked teams beating up on bad teams.


Again, doing something like judging most defense of a whole era based on a highlight video with only FG's-made, of one of the GOAT teams going up against a bad team? :wtf:
Many posters posted something different too, so...

Oh, you wanna pull out some quotes? OK...


"I like the contact," Kobe Bryant said. "As a defensive player, if you enjoy playing defense, that's what you want. You want to be able to put your hands on a guy. You want to be able to hand check a little bit. The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required much more skill."

(on what's wrong with today's league)

"Basically everything," Gary Payton replied, almost immediately. "It's no defense"

"The coaches in this league, in this day and era, are soft; the players are soft, how can you build something? They put all these stat guys, these analytic guys, and put them on the bench and make them GM because of numbers." - Charles Oakley

http://i59.tinypic.com/23r7n8z.png

Not scratching the surface there, I quickly found that, I can post many more (that I remember) from players, even coaches and GM's, if I bother looking for it... Where does that leaves us at, now? :confusedshrug:
That's why I won't even bother to check the veracity of your quotes, or the whole context behind them...

Didn't say it was all about the physicality - ofc you had to put it like that - but it sure helps, anyone that has ever played (organized) basketball knows it...

You've mentioned the Bad Boys, now go also watch...
- the 80's Bucks, a great defensive-minded team (Nelson employed great defensive "tactics") with Sid Moncrief (arguably GOAT on-ball perimeter defender) who could "lock up" any guard at any given night, Paul Pressey (long as hell, athletic, great defender) could play great D on 1-3, you had Lister to block shots down the lane, Cummings/Lanier with the big muscle...;
- a team like the 1983 76ers with all-time great defender Bobby Jones, one of the best defensive PG's in Mo Cheeks, Erving an athletic freak great off-ball defender, Moses down the lane... Could give hell defensively to any team;
- Celtics always played great team D during that era, even the Lakers a team predicated more on offense, had some great defensive players with some very good pressure D (that you talk about for the Heat or something), able to quickly turn defense into offense;
- Hubie Brown's Knicks didn't have even 1 of what you call an elite defensive player, but with great strategies, well coached, willing to play D, they had a great defense for some seasons;
- check out the Sonics with DJ, Williams, Sikma, Silas...;
- how about the mid-80's Rockets, know what it's like to drive against Hakeem and Sampson? With McCray on the perimeter?
- Utah, when Eaton was at his best and anchoring their defense, had some pretty good D;
- Nets with Buck Williams and Michael Ray had some great defense;
...

And it's harder to play defense against teams that run a great team offense, that move the ball around and look for the best shot or for the mismatches, while having great players for it that are down for it, like the showtime Lakers or the 1986 Celtics... That has been proven by examples such as last years Finals.
Also harder to play defense and keep the pace down against teams that like to run more and do some of the stuff I've previously mentioned, and on average you had more of that in the 1980's.

Harder to get footage from that era but just go up on youtube and check what's there, if you care... Even if you do check it, I know you'll just say stuff like not impressed and so on, just hating or not knowing what you're saying. Discussion is futile when that happens.

And, again, I can easily post considerably worse defense than that (video posted), from today's era.

If that argument was garbage what to say about some of yours :lol Old as shit? What about the Spurs? :rolleyes: SA certainly didn't have no top5/10 player and their core was older, what are you talking about, lmfao...
And how about you realizing that you're actually slamming this era... Just get this through your head 1st, that Heat team you talk about, got to the NBA Finals (only to get demolished by great offense)!

Now it has nothing to do with defense, huh? :rolleyes: Gimme a break, if that massacre happened in the 80's people would just say stuff like 'no defense, shitty defensive era'...

Oh no shit... Ofc it's harder to defend against well executed team offense and so on, making your defense "look" worse, been saying it all along, thanks for helping my point there :rockon:

No, you see no hype in today's era of over-hypeness :rolleyes: :oldlol:

[Dragonyeuw]

The guy had a brilliant basketball mind, the fundamentals displayed here off the chart. :applause:

[triangleoffense]

Bird is one of the greatest ever lucky he played with Mchale another white boy because I doubt he would've have made it in today's league surrounded by all black boys

BTW lot of ignorant people on this forum if you think Harden is near the level as Bird =/, also lols at the people who think overall defense was LESS in the 80s, one 60 second gloss over at random game tape or actually looking at the rule changes shows that today's league is like the WNBA compared to the 80s and 90s, the hand-check/paint-dominated era.

Today's league you have flopping being rewarded, breathing on a shooter or even attempting to swipe the ball-handler will get you a flagrant 2 and all of the centers being either flashy-***** type men like Griffin afraid to mix it up in the paint or actual centers being labeled PFs like Duncan, who is really a C who plays on the wing and is also too skinny to mix it up in the paint.

ISH gotten even more stupid I see, definitely a reason why i switched to posting on Lakers forum and that other basketball forum that is filled with less trolls/retards.

[Champ]

The greatest team ever my ass, they're not even the best Celtics club ever, let alone the fact they didn't repeat. The '67 Sixers and those early 70's Knicks teams would've CRUSHED this team, and I'd put good money on the '83 Sixers and '01 Lakers as well

Sure, pal. Whatever you say.

[Champ]

Same team, different defense...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYnyIWcmJl8

[stanlove1111]

being guarded by roy hinson, a super-athletic wing that routinely amassed over 100 dunks per season (since the data was first tracked in the 80's, only 10-15 guys each season get over 100 dunks)...

hinson also had a few season with over 2 blocks per game... bird drops 43 on him and it couldn't look or be any easier... most skilled player ever.

What a lame post to try to deny the obvious. I don't give a crap is Hinson is the greatest athlete ever, its right on video here that his defense against the Celtics sucks.

One more time for slow...Basketball has evolved since the 80s. Defenses are much, much better. Anyone that can look at videos and still deny this is just a liar a moron or both.

[stanlove1111]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif


It should be noted that the setup shown in the GIF above and earlier on this page where defenders are tippy-toeing to stay out of the lane, is the common defensive setup in this spot, as seen below again:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8cfb1f5cd6acc974960d916586e49b4a.gif




But clearly, the setup in previous eras (below) was superior, since defenders were allowed to camp in the lane and could therefore simultaneously defend the weakside while stopping the dribble-penetrator at the rim (and in general, being allowed to camp in the lane means defenders don't have to move as much or at all when the ball swings).


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c27a7589bc4681278938f85dbb781f40.gif


Gee I didn't see this coming. Some clown picking out one play here and there to try to deny the obvious..Every single time, and he honestly thinks nobody will see it..

[stanlove1111]

The greatest team ever my ass, they're not even the best Celtics club ever, let alone the fact they didn't repeat. The '67 Sixers and those early 70's Knicks teams would've CRUSHED this team, and I'd put good money on the '83 Sixers and '01 Lakers as well


You know what you are dealing with when he feels the need to bring up that they did not repeat like that changes anything. That's not the same year son and there were many injuries.

[Champ]

What a lame post to try to deny the obvious. I don't give a crap is Hinson is the greatest athlete ever, its right on video here that his defense against the Celtics sucks.

One more time for slow...Basketball has evolved since the 80s. Defenses are much, much better. Anyone that can look at videos and still deny this is just a liar a moron or both.

Today's defense is better to a point, but much more than that, it's simply different. Offensives are more perimeter-oriented due to rule changes and the three, and defenses have acclimated to this accordingly by applying more pressure on the outer edge.

Interior defense is another matter. The paint is more open today, encouraging teams to work the high pick and roll or to attack the basket. Players are also allowed to do more off the dribble, with traveling and carrying rules more lax.

Again, rather than simply stating that one era is superior over the other, style of play and rule changes have dictated the game's evolution more than anything else.

[LAZERUSS]

What a lame post to try to deny the obvious. I don't give a crap is Hinson is the greatest athlete ever, its right on video here that his defense against the Celtics sucks.

One more time for slow...Basketball has evolved since the 80s. Defenses are much, much better. Anyone that can look at videos and still deny this is just a liar a moron or both.


Interesting...I guess that explains the FACT that the NBA had an all-time high eFG% of .501 last season.

[stanlove1111]

Interesting...I guess that explains the FACT that the NBA had an all-time high eFG% of .501 last season.

Laz will not use stats to try to deny what is clear right on film..Nothing ever changes.


Gee it couldn't be because offense has evolved also and offensive players are better then ever? That couldn't be it could it? DUH.

[LAZERUSS]

Again ignoring what he sees right on video..

Gee it couldn't be because offense has evolved also and offensive players are better then ever? That couldn't be it could it? DUH.

Yep...

Players TODAY... are shooting FTs WORSE than they did 55 years ago in 1959 (and way worse than they did in '74.)

And of course, we have guys like Tyson Chandler, Andre Drummond, and DeAndre Jordan...three of the premier centers in the game...and none of them can shoot from three-feet away. In fact, they can only dunk 3-4 times a game.

You can go right down the list.

Then we have a fulltime starting PG in Ricky Rubio...shooting .381 from the field. How about Rajon Rondo? Dallas traded half their roster to get a guy who was shooting .405 from the field, and .333 from the line.

Players are no more skilled, nor even athletic today, than they were 30-50 years ago.

Wilt, Kareem, and Moses would shell the current NBA. Maravich would score as much today, as he did in '77. Same with McAdoo in '75. Averaged 34.5 ppg on a .512 FG% in 43 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 102.6 ppg on a .457 eFG%. Last year the NBA averaged 101.0 ppg on a .501 eFG%.

Sorry, but you have ZERO proof, nor footage, which confirms your ridiculous posts. Please do some actual RESEARCH before wasting everyone's time here.

[Mr Feeny]

Tbf you are the one wasting everyone's time with the garbage you post on here. Do you honestly believe a word of what you just wrote? Does your stupidity know no bounds? Go read a textbook about intro to basketball and come back to this board:biggums:

[stanlove1111]

Yep...

Players TODAY... are shooting FTs WORSE than they did 55 years ago in 1959 (and way worse than they did in '74.)

And of course, we have guys like Tyson Chandler, Andre Drummond, and DeAndre Jordan...three of the premier centers in the game...and none of them can shoot from three-feet away. In fact, they can only dunk 3-4 times a game.

You can go right down the list.

Then we have a fulltime starting PG in Ricky Rubio...shooting .381 from the field. How about Rajon Rondo? Dallas traded half their roster to get a guy who was shooting .405 from the field, and .333 from the line.

Players are no more skilled, nor even athletic today, than they were 30-50 years ago.

Wilt, Kareem, and Moses would shell the current NBA. Maravich would score as much today, as he did in '77. Same with McAdoo in '75. Averaged 34.5 ppg on a .512 FG% in 43 mpg, in an NBA that averaged 102.6 ppg on a .457 eFG%. Last year the NBA averaged 101.0 ppg on a .501 eFG%.

Sorry, but you have ZERO proof, nor footage, which confirms your ridiculous posts. Please do some actual RESEARCH before wasting everyone's time here.


LOL..So many laughable points in here its hard to keep track of. Takes about how centers of today can't shoot but whaqt was Wilt and Russell's FT percentages. You know the guys who dominated the 60s, and because of lax defense back then compared to today thewy could get the ball whenever they wanted right outside the lane unlike centers today.


You keep going with the re4search angle but then spout nothing but opinions that research has zero to do with. Maravich would score as much today? There is no research to show that and its laughable to begin with.

[WillC]

Bird is one of the greatest ever lucky he played with Mchale another white boy because I doubt he would've have made it in today's league surrounded by all black boys

BTW lot of ignorant people on this forum....

I think you must be one of those ignorant people that you referred to.

Larry Bird regularly torched Dominique Wilkins, Julius Erving and Scottie Pippen; three of the most athletic players ever to play the forward position.

Nice try though :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

LOL..So many laughable points in here its hard to keep track of. Takes about how centers of today can't shoot but whaqt was Wilt and Russell's FT percentages. You know the guys who dominated the 60s, and because of lax defense back then compared to today thewy could get the ball whenever they wanted right outside the lane unlike centers today.


You keep going with the re4search angle but then spout nothing but opinions that research has zero to do with. Maravich would score as much today? There is no research to show that and its laughable to begin with.

Here is KAJ being defended by your boy Walton and his swarming teammates in the '77 WCF's...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHMKlx7Was

40 points on 17-23 from the field. In a series in which he would average 30 ppg on a .608 FG%.

You tell me that today's centers and defensive schemes would limit THAT Kareem?

As for Wilt, we only have about 2% of his career on you-tube, but even in that, he is scoring from 10-15 ft on a regular basis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak


And again, a 38-39 year old KAJ just MURDERED a 23-24 Hakeem. In TEN STRAIGHT games he averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG% against him, which included games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.)

And yet, in 40 career H2H's with an aging full-time Thurmond...KAJ had FIVE games of 30+, with a high of 34 points. AND, he shot a CAREER .447 against Nate in that span (1969-73.)

How come? How is it possible that an OLD Kareem had a CAREER FG% of .607 against Hakeem, and yet a PEAK Kareem could only shoot .447 against Thurmond.

BTW, in the same week that Kareem pounded a helpless Hakeem with that 46 point game, he also outscored Ewing, 40-9, while outshooting Patrick from the field, 15-22 to 3-17.

Evidently Hakeem and Ewing were the shitz defensively, right?

[stanlove1111]

Here is KAJ being defended by your boy Walton and his swarming teammates in the '77 WCF's...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coHMKlx7Was

40 points on 17-23 from the field. In a series in which he would average 30 ppg on a .608 FG%.

You tell me that today's centers and defensive schemes would limit THAT Kareem?

?


So you honestly don't see that Jabbar is easily getting the ball very close to the basket anytime he wants because of the defense and rules of the time? Really..

By the way I do think Jabbar while not being dominating like he was would still be a very good center..Just nothing like he was. he would have to fitht for position and defenses today make it much mush harder to get the ball so close to the basket,,

Swarming defense in 1977 and swarming defense today are totally different animals..I can't believe all of your research hasn't shown that to you.

[Audio One]

You know what you are dealing with when he feels the need to bring up that they did not repeat like that changes anything. That's not the same year son and there were many injuries.

And yet folks do the exact same thing with the '67 Sixers and '71 Milwaukee squad. :rolleyes: I mean no disrespect to Larry and Boston, but the former teams are just the better ballclubs, and would've beat the breaks off the '86 Celtics, and Reed's Knicks squad would've put in work as well. I'm tired of seeing this Celtic team vaunted as the GOAT team, just because they played post 70's and can relate to the largest fan demographic...

[stanlove1111]

And yet folks do the exact same thing with the '67 Sixers and '71 Milwaukee squad. :rolleyes: I mean no disrespect to Larry and Boston, but the former teams are just the better ballclubs, and would've beat the breaks off the '86 Celtics, and Reed's Knicks squad would've put in work as well. I'm tired of seeing this Celtic team vaunted as the GOAT team, just because they played post 70's and can relate to the largest fan demographic...

The 86 Celtics would beat either team pretty easily..86 Celtics are the greatest team ever.

[LAZERUSS]

So you honestly don't see that Jabbar is easily getting the ball very close to the basket anytime he wants because of the defense and rules of the time? Really..

By the way I do think Jabbar while not being dominating like he was would still be a very good center..Just nothing like he was. he would have to fitht for position and defenses today make it much mush harder to get the ball so close to the basket,,

Swarming defense in 1977 and swarming defense today are totally different animals..I can't believe all of your research hasn't shown that to you.

Here is a fading Shaq against the Pistons and Ben Wallace in the 2004 Finals...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR_8Vg9_x90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUNwbSgKZuE

I see Shaq, single covered, and getting the ball at point blank range. Against a Piston defense, in their absolute prime, and whom many regard as the best of this era.

And yet you want me to believe that a FAR-MORE SKILLED Kareem, and a more-skilled, stronger, and more athletic Wilt, would struggle in THIS era????

Of course, I provided VIDEO proof of Kareem just annihilating a swarming defense, and one of the greatest defensive centers of the 70's, and video footage of a Wilt, being SWARMED by the Celtics, and THE greatest defensive center in NBA history...but you ignore it completely.


But then again, maybe you believe that Russell, Walton, Hakeem, Ewing, and Ben Wallace would be pure trash in TODAY's NBA, as well. After all, NONE of them could even remotely contain Wilt, KAJ, or Shaq.


BTW, a washed-up, 36 year old shell-of-a-Shaq, at probably around 370 lbs, and as recently as 2009, hung a 45 point game on this "modern era." And yet, you want me to believe that a prime Wilt and Kareem would struggle today?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

The 86 Celtics would beat either team pretty easily..86 Celtics are the greatest team ever.

They would have been blown away by either the '85 or '87 Lakers. Which, did in fact, occur.

BTW, the Lakers should have SWEPT Boston in 1984. And none other than Larry Bird, himself, said so. LA was a FAR greater team in that series.

[stanlove1111]

You claim that this era would stomp on yesteryear's, yet you have the '86 Celtiics, who are filled with nonathletic stiffs and less skills (by your definiton) as the "greatest team ever"?

Do us all a favor and punch yourself in the p*ssy.


How about I punch you in your *****.

I rate teams on ho0w they did in their era. Useless to compare teams from different eras. DUH.

[stanlove1111]

They would have been blown away by either the '85 or '87 Lakers. Which, did in fact, occur.

BTW, the Lakers should have SWEPT Boston in 1984. And none other than Larry Bird, himself, said so. LA was a FAR greater team in that series.


This is when you get harder then ever to even take seriously..So now the 85 and 87 Lakers beat the 86 Celtics? I don't remember that..I do remember the 87 Lakers having trouble getting by the 87 Celtics who were nothing like they were the year before. Walton out, Parish, and McHale injured..


So they were far better but lost the series? LOL...Celtics won 3 out of the last 4 in the series but the Lakers were clearly better? Interesting..

[3ball]

stanlove - before you claim today's paint defense is better, why don't you point me to just ONE possession where defenders are camping under the rim in today's game - JUST ONE.

i can provide many GIF's of players camping under the rim, because players were allowed to do that in previous eras.

but you can't provide even ONE play where players are camping under the rim, because players aren't allowed to do that in today's game... :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif


It should be noted that the setup shown in the GIF above where defenders are tippy-toeing to stay out of the lane, is the common defensive setup in this spot, as seen below again:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8cfb1f5cd6acc974960d916586e49b4a.gif




But clearly, the setup in previous eras (below) was superior, since defenders were allowed to camp in the lane and could therefore simultaneously defend the weakside while stopping the dribble-penetrator at the rim..


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c27a7589bc4681278938f85dbb781f40.gif

[3ball]

Some clown picking out one play here and there to try to deny the obvious..



stanlove1111 - i have many more GIF's like the previous post of players camping under the rim, because players were allowed to camp in the paint in previous eras.

otoh, while i can provide literally thousands of plays like this, you can't provide me ONE play where players are camping under the rim and packing the paint like the GIF's i've shown.

not one... so why don't you find me ONE play from today's game where defenders are camping under the rim like this... just find me ONE play from today's game where the paint looks like this:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif

[jzek]

OK, how many would LeBron score against the same defense? :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

OK, how many would LeBron score against the same defense? :confusedshrug:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c33b0be11565b94476f8e7a7e9902217.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif

if lebron was dumped back into a previous era, the main difference in his stats would be the efficiency... right now, lebron uses the spacing to ensure that most of his shots are 3-pointers or clean at-rim looks.

but in a no-spacing environment where he doesn't have his floor-spreaders spacing the floor for him and defenders were camping in the lane, he'd have to hoist up a much higher proportion of contested mid-range shots (like the jordan gif above), which are his least favorite shot... and the banging he would need to do in the paint would be dimensions harder than what he deals with now.
.

[triangleoffense]

I think you must be one of those ignorant people that you referred to.

Larry Bird regularly torched Dominique Wilkins, Julius Erving and Scottie Pippen; three of the most athletic players ever to play the forward position.

Nice try though :applause:
So your making my case for me? Not sure if you understood my post, I just said Bird is one of the greatest forwards ever so saying that he torched other great forwards proves my point..

[Euroleague]

Honestly, I can't believe how terrible that defense is. Like, I know people exaggerate how bad defense was in the '80s..but that seriously is the laziest defense I've seen in awhile. It seemed like the other team didn't care AT ALL about guarding someone.

Explain how that defense is any worse than defense played by 90+% of NBA teams now.

[Euroleague]

Bird is one of the greatest ever lucky he played with Mchale another white boy because I doubt he would've have made it in today's league surrounded by all black boys

BTW lot of ignorant people on this forum if you think Harden is near the level as Bird =/, also lols at the people who think overall defense was LESS in the 80s, one 60 second gloss over at random game tape or actually looking at the rule changes shows that today's league is like the WNBA compared to the 80s and 90s, the hand-check/paint-dominated era.

Today's league you have flopping being rewarded, breathing on a shooter or even attempting to swipe the ball-handler will get you a flagrant 2 and all of the centers being either flashy-***** type men like Griffin afraid to mix it up in the paint or actual centers being labeled PFs like Duncan, who is really a C who plays on the wing and is also too skinny to mix it up in the paint.

ISH gotten even more stupid I see, definitely a reason why i switched to posting on Lakers forum and that other basketball forum that is filled with less trolls/retards.

Yep, everything you say here is true. Unfortunately, the average troll in this forum has an IQ of about 60, and they are pathological liars, racists, etc. All kinds of nonsense is just posted here endlessly.

Just look at the endless bunch of vomit already posted by Milbuck in this thread.

[Milbuck]

Yep, everything you say here is true. Unfortunately, the average troll in this forum has an IQ of about 60, and they are pathological liars, racists, etc. All kinds of nonsense is just posted here endlessly.

Just look at the endless bunch of vomit already posted by Milbuck in this thread.
Mirotic and Giannis are both better than Spanoulis ever was.

[Euroleague]

Mirotic and Giannis are both better than Spanoulis ever was.

Yeah, at being betas.

[Milbuck]

Yeah, at being betas.
Giannis was so "beta" the Greek national team gave him the Captain position and kicked Spanoulis off the squad just for him. And Mirotic was so "beta" he went from MVP of Euroleague to now a ROY favorite in the NBA, while Spanoulis crashed and burned within 31 games.

[Euroleague]

Giannis was so "beta" the Greek national team gave him the Captain position and kicked Spanoulis off the squad just for him. And Mirotic was so "beta" he went from MVP of Euroleague to now a ROY favorite in the NBA, while Spanoulis crashed and burned within 31 games.

Giannis wears the Greek beta letter on his jersey every time he plays for Greece.

That's why his nickname is "alphabet" in Milwaukee - that's the ENGLISH version of his Greek nickname, which is Alfa Beta. It's a reference to him being the second best Antetokounmpo brother.

[Milbuck]

Giannis wears the Greek beta letter on his jersey every time he plays for Greece.

That's why his nickname is "alphabet" in Milwaukee - that's the ENGLISH version of his Greek nickname, which is Alfa Beta. It's a reference to him being the second best Antetokounmpo brother.
He's also the greatest player in Euroleague history.

[3ball]

The Miami Heat got shredded by the Spurs because they were old as shit and breaking down.


Lebron was 29, Bosh 29, Wade 32, Chalmers was 27 - these were their 4 main starters and nobody missed a game in the playoffs - and all these guys are playing pretty well this season, as would be expected from guys those ages.

The real question is why the Spurs went crazy offensively ONLY against the Heat - they made the Heat give up defensively, which would only happen if the Heat players realized their OFFENSE couldn't keep up... otherwise, there is no motivation for the defense to give up.. and why was Heat offense so much worse than the Spurs? (hint: some brands of basketball are more optimal & better than others).
.

[Euroleague]

He's also the greatest player in Euroleague history.

He's the greatest beta in Greek minor league 2nd division history.

[Milbuck]

Lebron was 29, Bosh 29, Wade 32, Chalmers was 27 - these were their 4 main starters and nobody missed a game in the playoffs - and all these guys are playing pretty well this season for being old geezers.

What you should really be asking is why the Spurs went crazy offensively ONLY against the Heat - they made the Heat give up defensively, which would only happen if the Heat players realized their OFFENSE wasn't going to be able to keep up (they realized, "wow, our offense sucks compared to theirs; we can't keep up"... without the Heat thinking this, there is no motivation for the defense to give up).. and why was Heat offense so much worse than the Spurs? (hint: some brands of basketball are more optimal & better than others).
Didn't read.
He's the greatest beta in Greek minor league 2nd division history.
Until he moved on to Euroleague A Division, where he raped the competition and was an all-star at 17 years old. So "beta" that he became so dominant he was formally asked by the Euroleague commissioner to leave and pursue better competition in the NBA.

[3ball]

The real question is why the Spurs went crazy offensively ONLY against the Heat - they made the Heat give up defensively, which would only happen if the Heat players realized their OFFENSE couldn't keep up... otherwise, there is no motivation for the defense to give up.. and why was Heat offense so much worse than the Spurs? (hint: some brands of basketball are more optimal & better than others).





Didn't read.


thanks for quoting it though.. didn't realize i was rent free :roll:

merry christmas to you too milbuck.. :cheers:

[KevinNYC]

Wow, that's Harden-esque :bowdown:

http://i.imgur.com/8UDjFV4.png


I doubt Larry had 5 steals and 7 assists

Harden > Bird ayy lmao


Bird had 3 steals, 3 assists and 8 rebounds = 14 total
Harden 2 rebounds with his steals and assists = 14 total.

So even looking beyond point, that's looking pretty similar.

What game is that boxscore from? Because I can't find it at basketball reference. The closest I can find is this one
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201402250SAC.html

but the minutes are different.

I don't know Harden's stats and didn't watch both games, but just from the Bird's 74 point differential in Offensive and Defensive Ratings :wtf:, I'm thinking he might have had the better game.
ORtg 156
DRtg 82

I had never seen an offensive rating of 156 before. So I looked at Kobe's 81 point game for comparison

ORtg 158
DRtg 107

[JohnFreeman]

Weak era