Dominique came back from an Achilles injury and put up 29.9 in 1992-93.

[JohnMax]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wilkido01.html
http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

[SHAQisGOAT]

30/7/3/1 on 47/38/83, leading his team to a winning record, after the achilles :bowdown:
Always amazed me that he was able to do that, even more that he was still very athletic after the injury and at 33, dude was just a major athletic freak with lots of skill to go along, and always a hard-worker, always improving (like the range on his jumper throughout his career).

People will just make this a thread against Kobe though :rolleyes:

[L.Kizzle]

Best flat top/s-curl crossmatch ever.

[bizil]

30/7/3/1 on 47/38/83, leading his team to a winning record, after the achilles :bowdown:
Always amazed me that he was able to do that, even more that he was still very athletic after the injury and at 33, dude was just a major athletic freak with lots of skill to go along, and always a hard-worker, always improving (like the range on his jumper throughout his career).

People will just make this a thread against Kobe though :rolleyes:


Agreed! Nique arguably had the greatest comeback EVER from the Achilles injury in sports history! And as u stated, he was still one of the most athletic SF's in the league. He hit 120 three pointers in his comeback season SMOKING his original best three ball season which was 85 threes. I think of all the great freak athletic SF's (Doc, Bron, Baylor, Hawkins, Pippen, Hill, etc.), that Nique developed the most complete skillset.

I know many will disagree, but if u watch close Nique had a sick arsenal. For example, Bron was just a better three ball shooter. And among the other guys I named, Nique was just as good or better at ALL FACETS of scoring. And among ALL SF's, Nique's scoring skillset is in the top 10 with guys like Bird, Durant, King, Pierce, and Melo.

[colts19]

This guy is almost forgotten. One of the most underrated players ever. His problem was his teams were never quite good enough talent wise to overcome the Celtics or the Pistons. Top six small forwards of all time.

Bird
Barry
Dr. J
Baylor
Hondo
Dominique

I only count players that have finished the careers.

[JohnnyBravo5]

He is very approachable too. We are both avid bikers and I see and talk to him at bike rallies all the time. Try that with MJ or Bird.

[Mr Feeny]

To average 30 and 7 after that injury is incredible. Props to Niue! Unprecedented :applause:

[chocolatethunder]

When I was in high school and he was on the Hawks someone told me that he also smoked cigarettes which is totally comical if it's true. In the 70s players smoked at practice haha, really.

[bizil]

This guy is almost forgotten. One of the most underrated players ever. His problem was his teams were never quite good enough talent wise to overcome the Celtics or the Pistons. Top six small forwards of all time.

Bird
Barry
Dr. J
Baylor
Hondo
Dominique

I only count players that have finished the careers.

I agree with that list! Nique is a top 6 GOAT SF among guys who have completed their careers. And he has scored MORE POINTS than any SF in NBA history! I don't think many people realize that. Those Hawks teams were good teams, but they weren't GREAT TEAMS! The East back then was EPIC. The fact that Nique got the Hawks as far as they did says a lot.

[chocolatethunder]

Best flat top/s-curl crossmatch ever.
For sure. He used to do dark and lovely commercials and they were the best. I would say that Michael Cage had the best Jheri curl and that AC Green had the second best. Sometimes Cage's was so loose and wet it was just incredible to see. AC's was a lot tighter and it was wet but not like Cage's.

[L.Kizzle]

This guy is almost forgotten. One of the most underrated players ever. His problem was his teams were never quite good enough talent wise to overcome the Celtics or the Pistons. Top six small forwards of all time.

Bird
Barry
Dr. J
Baylor
Hondo
Dominique

I only count players that have finished the careers.
What about Paul Arizin?

I know that was a long long time ago. Hell, he even peaked before Baylor. But he has a championship.

And Pippen?

You could argue those two over Nique, possibly even Cunningham.

[L.Kizzle]

For sure. He used to do dark and lovely commercials and they were the best. I would say that Michael Cage had the best Jheri curl and that AC Green had the second best. Sometimes Cage's was so loose and wet it was just incredible to see. AC's was a lot tighter and it was wet but not like Cage's.
Drexler had sort of a curl his first few years. It evaporated quick though.

[chocolatethunder]

I agree with that list! Nique is a top 6 GOAT SF among guys who have completed their careers. And he has scored MORE POINTS than any SF in NBA history! I don't think many people realize that. Those Hawks teams were good teams, but they weren't GREAT TEAMS! The East back then was EPIC. The fact that Nique got the Hawks as far as they did says a lot.
In fairness, his teams didn't suck, they just went up again better teams. He played along some good players. Doc was good and Willis was a total beast back then. Theuss was a disaster when they brought him in because he never met a shot he didn't like. Moses was old but he played well for them. Nique wasn't the greatest at team ball and was an awful defender. I can't remember if it was you or not I was talking with this about but back then in the late 80s when I was in high school (and after) Turner or whatever it was called back then showed every Hawks game so although I lived right outside of philly, I got to see all their games. Nique was always exciting to see play. I think that they were very close to being great teams like very close but they could never put it all together. They tried that when they brought Reggie and Moses to town but Reggie made that a mistake for everyone.

[chocolatethunder]

Drexler had sort of a curl his first few years. It evaporated quick though.
His hair evaporated quickly as well. Reggie Theuss had himself a nice curl too.

[bizil]

What about Paul Arizin?

I know that was a long long time ago. Hell, he even peaked before Baylor. But he has a championship.

And Pippen?

You could argue those two over Nique, possibly even Cunningham.

I think those guys could have a case. But Nique has case over those guys too in my opinion. I think Nique's longevity and scoring more points than any SF ever gives him a case.

And in terms of Pippen, he has SIX NBA TITLES! If he was so great, hell he should be the GOAT SF. Or at worst number three. Why isn't Pippen EVER regarded that high? It's because he was never truly an alpha dog kind of player. On the Open Court NBA 60 Greatest Players special, Billups, Webber, and Isiah all alluded to this. If Pippen NEVER won any rings, would he be in the HOF? I don't know if he would be. Not saying he wouldn't,but I'm not sure. He surely wouldn't have been 1st ballot.

Nique, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, and Barkley DID make it without rings. Pippen's longevity being a great player pales in comparison to Stockton's for example. Plus John is the all time leader in assists and steals. His imprint on the record book is too great. And he was never the alpha dog that Malone, Ewing, or Barkley was.

[Nikola_]

Did he have exactly the same type of injury as Bean?

[L.Kizzle]

I think those guys could have a case. But Nique has case over those guys too in my opinion. I think Nique's longevity and scoring more points than any SF ever gives him a case.

And in terms of Pippen, he has SIX NBA TITLES! If he was so great, hell he should be the GOAT SF. Or at worst number three. Why isn't Pippen EVER regarded that high? It's because he was never truly an alpha dog kind of player. On the Open Court NBA 60 Greatest Players special, Billups, Webber, and Isiah all alluded to this. If Pippen NEVER won any rings, would he be in the HOF? I don't know if he would be. Not saying he wouldn't,but I'm not sure. He surely wouldn't have been 1st ballot.

Nique, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, and Barkley DID make it without rings. Pippen's longevity being a great player pales in comparison to Stockton's for example. Plus John is the all time leader in assists and steals. His imprint on the record book is too great. And he was never the alpha dog that Malone, Ewing, or Barkley was.
That was mostly just Zeke Thomas saying those things and Billups and Webber co-signing. Those guys would never dare say that had Thomas not bought it up.

Judging from the 1993-1994 and even the 1999-2000 Blazers stint, we know what Pippen would have done had he had a team to himself.

[bizil]

In fairness, his teams didn't suck, they just went up again better teams. He played along some good players. Doc was good and Willis was a total beast back then. Theuss was a disaster when they brought him in because he never met a shot he didn't like. Moses was old but he played well for them. Nique wasn't the greatest at team ball and was an awful defender. I can't remember if it was you or not I was talking with this about but back then in the late 80s when I was in high school (and after) Turner or whatever it was called back then showed every Hawks game so although I lived right outside of philly, I got to see all their games. Nique was always exciting to see play. I think that they were very close to being great teams like very close but they could never put it all together. They tried that when they brought Reggie and Moses to town but Reggie made that a mistake for everyone.

I said the Hawks had a good team earlier. I just said the East was just too epic in the 80's! The Hawks just weren't equipped to beat those teams. People can't put that on Nique. Nique DIDN'T have awful defense either. Average defense doesn't mean awful defense. Nique could guard athletic perimeter guys better than Bird and Magic for example. But Bird could guard bigger forwards better than Nique cause Bird was the size of many PF's.

And when it comes to great playmaking or point forward kind of skills, it's a bonus at the SF position. It's not a premium asset. It's the job of the GM to build a team around its superstar player. NO DOUBT Nique was a superstar player. U have 27-30 points and 7-9 rebounds a game year in and year out in his prime years. So HE WASN'T the problem!! The problem was the East was just too deep at that time. And when Nique has a great chance to win a ring, the Hawks traded him!! So it is what it is.

[Gotterdammerung]

Did he have exactly the same type of injury as Bean?
No, from what I recall, Dominique had a partial rupture of the Achilles tendon. Kobe had a complete tear.
:kobe:

[bizil]

That was mostly just Zeke Thomas saying those things and Billups and Webber co-signing. Those guys would never dare say that had Thomas not bought it up.

Judging from the 1993-1994 and even the 1999-2000 Blazers stint, we know what Pippen would have done had he had a team to himself.

Nope! Billups was saying Grant Hill revolutionized the SF position because he evolved into a great scorer, passer, rebounder, and very good defender. He said that wasn't ever really seen at the SF position in the new age. Barkley said what about Pippen. Billups then said NO Pippen wasn't doing what Hill was doing. Isiah had nothing to do with that initially. And Webber is a staunch defender of Nique. I truly believe he feels Nique has a case over Pippen on a GOAT SF list. Sure u could argue Pippen, I never said that Pip didn't have a case. But playing with the GOAT and having six rings is what it would take. If Pip NEVER WON RINGS, he has NO ARGUMENT over Nique in terms of GOAT standing!

And in 93-94, Pippen needed to score more points for that Bulls team to win a title. The standard in Chi was WINNING RINGS! Him only scoring 22 points a night was unacceptable on a team like that. No other alpha dogs were on that team. With MJ on the previous teams, he put up 21 points a night. So only one more point than his previous career high wasn't gonna cut it.

For Pippen to win a ring as his team's best player, it would have to be a DEEP ASS TEAM like the Blazers u talked about. But Pippen wasn't the best player on those teams. That was a team with EPIC DEPTH whose best player at the time in my book was Rasheed. Pippen was past his prime at that point. Best ALL AROUND PLAYER on a team is DIFFERENT than the BEST PLAYER ON A TEAM often times!!

[L.Kizzle]

Nope! Billups was saying Grant Hill revolutionized the SF position because he evolved into a great scorer, passer, rebounder, and very good defender. He said that wasn't ever really seen at the SF position in the new age. Barkley said what about Pippen. Billups then said NO Pippen wasn't doing what Hill was doing. Isiah had nothing to do with that initially. And Webber is a staunch defender of Nique. I truly believe he feels Nique has a case over Pippen on a GOAT SF list. Sure u could argue Pippen, I never said that Pip didn't have a case. But playing with the GOAT and having six rings is what it would take. If Pip NEVER WON RINGS, he has NO ARGUMENT over Nique in terms of GOAT standing!

And in 93-94, Pippen needed to score more points for that Bulls team to win a title. The standard in Chi was WINNING RINGS! Him only scoring 22 points a night was unacceptable on a team like that. No other alpha dogs were on that team. With MJ on the previous teams, he put up 21 points a night. So only one more point than his previous career high wasn't gonna cut it.

For Pippen to win a ring as his team's best player, it would have to be a DEEP ASS TEAM like the Blazers u talked about. But Pippen wasn't the best player on those teams. That was a team with EPIC DEPTH whose best player at the time in my book was Rasheed. Pippen was past his prime at that point. Best ALL AROUND PLAYER on a team is DIFFERENT than the BEST PLAYER ON A TEAM often times!!
I do remember now.

22 pts a game was good for two less wins than the previous squad and one bad call away from meeting the Pacers.

You could are Pippen or Wallace on that team.

[bizil]

I do remember now.

22 pts a game was good for two less wins than the previous squad and one bad call away from meeting the Pacers.

You could are Pippen or Wallace on that team.

Pip had a great season in 93-94 no doubt. But that team needed him to be more aggressive scoring to win a ring. Looking at that Bulls roster, they needed Pip to be more alpha.

[SamuraiSWISH]

No, from what I recall, Dominique had a partial rupture of the Achilles tendon. Kobe had a complete tear.
:kobe:
It's better to totally tear anything than partial tear. You realize that, right?

[chocolatethunder]

I said the Hawks had a good team earlier. I just said the East was just too epic in the 80's! The Hawks just weren't equipped to beat those teams. People can't put that on Nique. Nique DIDN'T have awful defense either. Average defense doesn't mean awful defense. Nique could guard athletic perimeter guys better than Bird and Magic for example. But Bird could guard bigger forwards better than Nique cause Bird was the size of many PF's.

And when it comes to great playmaking or point forward kind of skills, it's a bonus at the SF position. It's not a premium asset. It's the job of the GM to build a team around its superstar player. NO DOUBT Nique was a superstar player. U have 27-30 points and 7-9 rebounds a game year in and year out in his prime years. So HE WASN'T the problem!! The problem was the East was just too deep at that time. And when Nique has a great chance to win a ring, the Hawks traded him!! So it is what it is.
I'm not saying that Nique wasn't great. He was a superstar for sure. Nique was not a good defender neither was Magic or Bird. I'm not saying it was his fault they didn't win, I'm saying that they weren't good enough and scoring a million points isn't always what it takes to win. I watched all of those games back then and I wasn't five years old. I was in high school and could understand what was happening Nique was great and an incredible scorer. I'm not sure that I would put him ahead of Pip tho because although Pip was not the man, he was one of the best two way players ever. Not only did he get you points he got you rebounds assists and steals and played lockdown d. And I'm saying this as a Bulls hater from that era but it's the truth.

[Dragonyeuw]

He actually became a more complete player, at least scoring, after his injury amazingly. He was a really big name in the 80s, but seems to be a forgotten star nowadays.

[L.Kizzle]

He actually became a more complete player, at least scoring, after his injury amazingly. He was a really big name in the 80s, but seems to be a forgotten star nowadays.
Nique is not forgotten. Someone like Alex English is forgotten.

[Dragonyeuw]

Nique is not forgotten. Someone like Alex English is forgotten.

He's forgotten relative to the amount of attention other greats from his era get.

[bizil]

Nique is not forgotten. Someone like Alex English is forgotten.

I agree with that. I think English playing in Denver and not on TV as much made him forgotten. Unless u were a TRUE STUDENT of the game like many of us on here. English always had that cool silent swag about his game too. But if u know the game he was a beast and of the GOAT SF's. Surely in the top 10-15 SF's ever.

Nique on the other hand was the king of TBS along with Flair, Dusty, and Dale Murphy back in the day. He was also must see TV in the 80's due to the dunk contests and Sportscenter highlights. So even to casual fans, Nique had a much higher profile than guys like English, Dantley, or Aguirre.

The thing with Nique is he gets hated on big time and not really given his just due in my opinion. Guys like English are for sure underrated but not really in a hateful way. Nique tends to get shitted on in a hateful way and robbed of accolades he rightfully earned. So from there, Nique gets underrated.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's forgotten relative to the amount of attention other greats from his era get.

No not at all. He's remembered more than other people with his playing ability.

[bizil]

He's forgotten relative to the amount of attention other greats from his era get.

Nique got hated on big time in my opinion. He was robbed of accolades and status that he rightfully earned. And when people talked about Nique's game, it was in a hateful manner often times. So from there Nique didn't get his props. And from there in a sense he did get forgotten EVEN THOUGH he had a huge profile back in the day. Given how much he did for the NBA, I think he was somewhat forgotten because he doesn't get the props he deserves. So not forgotten like low key legends like English. But forgotten because many in the L's infastructure and media tried to make us FORGET about Nique.

The NBA's marekting machine WAS BUILT on MJ, Magic, and Bird of course. But it was ALSO built on Isiah, Nique, and Charles. U watch those NBA home videos and the L made millions of dollars with Nique being a HUGE PART of those videos. Not to mention he was ratings gold in the All Star Game weekend in the dunk contests AND the game itself.

When I say disrespect, things such as not making the 50 greatest of all time list, not making the HOF on the first ballot, (when he's scored more points than any SF in NBA HISTORY and redefined the SF position with his athletic ability) being pigeonholed by many in the media as a guy who could just dunk and not capable of leading a team to a title.

Plus Nique was every bit on the level of Charles, Ewing, Stockton, and Malone in terms of where he ranked in his era for his position. Those guys were regarded in the top 2-3 at their positions in that era. Well that's where Nique stood DURING THE DEEPEST SF ERA EVER! And Nique finished second behind Bird in MVP in 1986 during the Golden Era of the NBA. It's why certain icons like Barkley, MJ, Bird, Isiah, and Magic come out in Nique's defense so often. They know he gets shitted on!

[Dragonyeuw]

22 pts a game was good for two less wins than the previous squad and one bad call away from meeting the Pacers.

.

The Bulls pretty much overachieved in 93-94 with 55 wins, and they underachieved with 57 wins in 92-93 having won 67 the prior year. There is no reason for the 92-93 Bulls to suffer a 10 win drop from the previous year, with a prime Jordan and Pippen alongside a developing BJ and prime Grant, except Jordan and Pippen were pretty much conserving themselves coming off the dream team which was on the heels of a back to back. That team otherwise should have close to matched their 91-92 win total.

The 93-94 Bulls sans Jordan were extra motivated to 'win without MJ' and played to their full potential based on the available talent, that was also probably one of Phil's better coaching jobs. It would have been great to see Jordan on that squad, alongside a fully developed Pippen and Grant, and BJ grown into a solid starting guard. Add Kukoc off the bench, and that team could have been the best of Bulls run.

[Akhenaten]

Pip had a great season in 93-94 no doubt. But that team needed him to be more aggressive scoring to win a ring. Looking at that Bulls roster, they needed Pip to be more alpha.

Yup, they needed him to be in the 26-30 ppg range to contend or win a title, that was something he was just was not capable of, not talented enough, not skilled enough.

[L.Kizzle]

Nique got hated on big time in my opinion. He was robbed of accolades and status that he rightfully earned. And when people talked about Nique's game, it was in a hateful manner often times. So from there Nique didn't get his props. And from there in a sense he did get forgotten EVEN THOUGH he had a huge profile back in the day. Given how much he did for the NBA, I think he was somewhat forgotten because he doesn't get the props he deserves. So not forgotten like low key legends like English. But forgotten because many in the L's infastructure and media tried to make us FORGET about Nique.

The NBA's marekting machine WAS BUILT on MJ, Magic, and Bird of course. But it was ALSO built on Isiah, Nique, and Charles. U watch those NBA home videos and the L made millions of dollars with Nique being a HUGE PART of those videos. Not to mention he was ratings gold in the All Star Game weekend in the dunk contests AND the game itself.
The only thing he was robbed from was the NBA at 50.

Everything else, was basically butter. We're talking about a player with more All-NBA teams than Clyde Drexler and Isiah Thomas and more All-Star games than Scottie Pippen and Kevin McHale. All players from his era he battled against.

When 80s and 90s players come up. He will be mentioned. He's not gonna get it over Jordan, Bird, Magic and those guys. Buy when you get to the 2nd tier guys he will be mentioned.

[L.Kizzle]

Yup, they needed him to be in the 26-30 ppg range to contend or win a title, that was something he was just was not capable of, not talented enough, not skilled enough.
Pippen could have easily avg 26-30 if he wanted to and if Phil would have told him too.

That season, he avg less minutes then the year before but only avg one more shot. Pretty sure Phil did release him fully. He avg around 37-38 minutes per game in his peak Chicago years. Give him 42 minutes and he's gettin that. Jordan didn't even avg over 40 minutes when Phil got to town.

[Dragonyeuw]

Nique got hated on big time in my opinion. He was robbed of accolades and status that he rightfully earned. And when people talked about Nique's game, it was in a hateful manner often times. So from there Nique didn't get his props. And from there in a sense he did get forgotten EVEN THOUGH he had a huge profile back in the day. Given how much he did for the NBA, I think he was somewhat forgotten because he doesn't get the props he deserves. So not forgotten like low key legends like English. But forgotten because many in the L's infastructure and media tried to make us FORGET about Nique.

The NBA's marekting machine WAS BUILT on MJ, Magic, and Bird of course. But it was ALSO built on Isiah, Nique, and Charles. U watch those NBA home videos and the L made millions of dollars with Nique being a HUGE PART of those videos. Not to mention he was ratings gold in the All Star Game weekend in the dunk contests AND the game itself.

When I say disrespect, things such as not making the 50 greatest of all time list, not making the HOF on the first ballot, (when he's scored more points than any SF in NBA HISTORY and redefined the SF position with his athletic ability) being pigeonholed by many in the media as a guy who could just dunk and not capable of leading a team to a title.

Plus Nique was every bit on the level of Charles, Ewing, Stockton, and Malone in terms of where he ranked in his era for his position. Those guys were regarded in the top 2-3 at their positions in that era. Well that's where Nique stood DURING THE DEEPEST SF ERA EVER! And Nique finished second behind Bird in MVP in 1986 during the Golden Era of the NBA. It's why certain icons like Barkley, MJ, Bird, Isiah, and Magic come out in Nique's defense so often. They know he gets shitted on!

Good post. Its funny you mention guys like Barkley, Ewing, stockton, malone etc because unless Im going senile, in the 80s he seemed to be in that tier of player in terms of how he was generally viewed. But while we still talk about those guys often, Nique seems like somewhat of an afterthought( you described the various reasons why pretty well above).

[bizil]

The only thing he was robbed from was the NBA at 50.

Everything else, was basically butter. We're talking about a player with more All-NBA teams than Clyde Drexler and Isiah Thomas and more All-Star games than Scottie Pippen and Kevin McHale. All players from his era he battled against.

When 80s and 90s players come up. He will be mentioned. He's not gonna get it over Jordan, Bird, Magic and those guys. Buy when you get to the 2nd tier guys he will be mentioned.

U make fair points. But he should have been first ballot HOF too. Dude scored more points than any SF in history. Secondly, I'm speaking frankly more of the media and the old school NBA guys from the 50's and 60's who vote for many of these lists.

The media are the ones who write the magazines and put out the image of the legends in many cases. Once again, Nique's name gets mentioned for sure. He was too exciting and high profile not to be. But guys who were LUCKY ENOUGH to play with other icons get rated ahead of Nique. When frankly, they weren't the franchise player Nique ever was.

When they mention the greatest players to NEVER win a ring, they bring up Malone, Stockton, Baylor, Barkley, and Ewing. Nique needs to be mentioned more in that group too. Those players don't get shitted on a much for NOT WINNING A RING as Nique does. I've heard many say Nique was a one dimensional scorer who could just dunk in the media. WHEN IN THEORY Nique had one of the greatest scoring skillsets of all time at the SF.

My main point of contention is MORE DISRESPECT than being FORGOTTEN! U gotta realize, many in the media don't even put Nique on the level with Ewing, Barkley, Malone, and Stockton. When he was EASILY on that level of player. They try to put him on third tier status often. Once again when I say they, I'm speaking of many in the media.

[Dragonyeuw]

Yup, they needed him to be in the 26-30 ppg range to contend or win a title, that was something he was just was not capable of, not talented enough, not skilled enough.

I doubt 25 PPG was outside his capability, that's what, a couple more shots per game? It seemed to be more of a score by committee philosophy, with BJ and Grant raising their scoring to career high levels( and gaining allstar bearths in the process) with Kukoc proving scoring punch off the bench. I feel he could have scored more, but at what cost to the rest of his floor game? He was putting up 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals, and a block a game( off the top of my head, too lazy to look it up). Those are incredible across the board numbers.

[bizil]

Pippen could have easily avg 26-30 if he wanted to and if Phil would have told him too.

That season, he avg less minutes then the year before but only avg one more shot. Pretty sure Phil did release him fully. He avg around 37-38 minutes per game in his peak Chicago years. Give him 42 minutes and he's gettin that. Jordan didn't even avg over 40 minutes when Phil got to town.

The thing is Pippen was NEVER an alpha dog player. Phil didn't ask Scottie to do it BECAUSE he knew that wasn't Pippen's game. Plus a TRUE ALPHA DOG doesn't need a coach to tell him when do it at that point in Pippen's career. He was like a seven year vet at that point starting the peak of his career. With that Bulls team, Pippen needed to average more points.

A great example is a guy like Harden. He came off the bench in OKC and was known as a great sixth man averaging 19 points in his best season there. But once he went to Houston, he amped the scoring BIG TIME and showed he was a true alpha dog. Now he's the best SG in the world! That's what I mean by stepping up your game due to talent on your team.

That's what Pippen WOULD HAVE DID in Chicago if he was an alpha dog. Which is fine because he was still a great player who redefined the SF-point forward position. But he's wasn't a point forward like Bron who could be pass first, great all around, and STILL dominate scoring. That's what that Bulls team needed to win a ring, which was the standard in Chicago. Prior to that season, the jury was still out on if Pip could step up be an alpha dog.

I'm not saying Pip couldn't be the best player on a title team. What I'm saying is the team has to be constructed a certain way. A team like the 2004 Pistons or a peak Pippen with the Blazers in the late 90's to early 2000s. Teams with three or four All Star type guys capable of getting 18-20 points a night. And teams who have great defense. That 93-94 Bulls team needed a guy like LeBron or Bird from the SF position to take them to that TRUE TITLE contention. Why? Becasue they were great all around, which would cover up a lot of weaknesses. But THE KEY is they are also alpha dog players too.

[L.Kizzle]

U make fair points. But he should have been first ballot HOF too. Dude scored more points than any SF in history. Secondly, I'm speaking frankly more of the media and the old school NBA guys from the 50's and 60's who vote for many of these lists.

The media are the ones who write the magazines and put out the image of the legends in many cases. Once again, Nique's name gets mentioned for sure. He was too exciting and high profile not to be. But guys who were LUCKY ENOUGH to play with other icons get rated ahead of Nique. When frankly, they weren't the franchise player Nique ever was.

When they mention the greatest players to NEVER win a ring, they bring up Malone, Stockton, Baylor, Barkley, and Ewing. Nique needs to be mentioned more in that group too. Those players don't get shitted on a much for NOT WINNING A RING as Nique does. I've heard many say Nique was a one dimensional scorer who could just dunk in the media. WHEN IN THEORY Nique had one of the greatest scoring skillsets of all time at the SF.

My main point of contention is MORE DISRESPECT than being FORGOTTEN! U gotta realize, many in the media don't even put Nique on the level with Ewing, Barkley, Malone, and Stockton. When he was EASILY on that level of player. They try to put him on third tier status often. Once again when I say they, I'm speaking of many in the media.
George Gervin doesn't really get put with that group of Stockton, Malone, Baylor, Ewing and Barkley either. And he's usually ranked over Nique. Hell, I've seen him over Stockon and Ewing a few times. Hell Miller gets put with that group sometimes too. I think it's do to Finals appearances and individual awards those guys have.

Gervin
Wilkins
Miller
Webber
Iverson

[triangleoffense]

what age did he suffer the injury and how many seasons/wear and tear has he had on his body?

[chocolatethunder]

U make fair points. But he should have been first ballot HOF too. Dude scored more points than any SF in history. Secondly, I'm speaking frankly more of the media and the old school NBA guys from the 50's and 60's who vote for many of these lists.

The media are the ones who write the magazines and put out the image of the legends in many cases. Once again, Nique's name gets mentioned for sure. He was too exciting and high profile not to be. But guys who were LUCKY ENOUGH to play with other icons get rated ahead of Nique. When frankly, they weren't the franchise player Nique ever was.

When they mention the greatest players to NEVER win a ring, they bring up Malone, Stockton, Baylor, Barkley, and Ewing. Nique needs to be mentioned more in that group too. Those players don't get shitted on a much for NOT WINNING A RING as Nique does. I've heard many say Nique was a one dimensional scorer who could just dunk in the media. WHEN IN THEORY Nique had one of the greatest scoring skillsets of all time at the SF.

My main point of contention is MORE DISRESPECT than being FORGOTTEN! U gotta realize, many in the media don't even put Nique on the level with Ewing, Barkley, Malone, and Stockton. When he was EASILY on that level of player. They try to put him on third tier status often. Once again when I say they, I'm speaking of many in the media.

I dunno why but you are seeing basketball through "Nique is disrespected" goggles. The thing that makes Nique different from those dudes you mentioned is that he never went to a finals. All of those other guys you mentioned did so it's natural to say that. Nique should have been on the top 50 list for sure but those things are stupid anyway. I hate ranking players it's just stupid. You keep referring to the "media". To whom are you referring? Like who in particular ignores Nique?

Did Nique have one of the greatest scoring skill sets IN THEORY or in reality? Who puts him on a third tier down? You're paranoid about something that's not really happening. Apart from being left off the top 50, he's not disrespected at all.

[jzek]

Didn't he average like 25PPG at 40 years old while playing in the Euroleague? :confusedshrug:

[Nowitness]

Still a 80/90s scrub like most of the players ShaqIsGoat creams over.

[Audio One]

Nique got hated on big time in my opinion. He was robbed of accolades and status that he rightfully earned. And when people talked about Nique's game, it was in a hateful manner often times. So from there Nique didn't get his props. And from there in a sense he did get forgotten EVEN THOUGH he had a huge profile back in the day. Given how much he did for the NBA, I think he was somewhat forgotten because he doesn't get the props he deserves. So not forgotten like low key legends like English. But forgotten because many in the L's infastructure and media tried to make us FORGET about Nique.

The NBA's marekting machine WAS BUILT on MJ, Magic, and Bird of course. But it was ALSO built on Isiah, Nique, and Charles. U watch those NBA home videos and the L made millions of dollars with Nique being a HUGE PART of those videos. Not to mention he was ratings gold in the All Star Game weekend in the dunk contests AND the game itself.

When I say disrespect, things such as not making the 50 greatest of all time list, not making the HOF on the first ballot, (when he's scored more points than any SF in NBA HISTORY and redefined the SF position with his athletic ability) being pigeonholed by many in the media as a guy who could just dunk and not capable of leading a team to a title.

Plus Nique was every bit on the level of Charles, Ewing, Stockton, and Malone in terms of where he ranked in his era for his position. Those guys were regarded in the top 2-3 at their positions in that era. Well that's where Nique stood DURING THE DEEPEST SF ERA EVER! And Nique finished second behind Bird in MVP in 1986 during the Golden Era of the NBA. It's why certain icons like Barkley, MJ, Bird, Isiah, and Magic come out in Nique's defense so often. They know he gets shitted on!

Great work here. I'd also add, that it seems that Iverson has and will get similar treatment down the line. It would've done MASSIVE wonders for Wilkins' career had Atlanta somehow upset Boston in those semi-finals

[bizil]

I dunno why but you are seeing basketball through "Nique is disrespected" goggles. The thing that makes Nique different from those dudes you mentioned is that he never went to a finals. All of those other guys you mentioned did so it's natural to say that. Nique should have been on the top 50 list for sure but those things are stupid anyway. I hate ranking players it's just stupid. You keep referring to the "media". To whom are you referring? Like who in particular ignores Nique?

Did Nique have one of the greatest scoring skill sets IN THEORY or in reality? Who puts him on a third tier down? You're paranoid about something that's not really happening. Apart from being left off the top 50, he's not disrespected at all.

Once again, Nique not being a first ballot HOFer was a diss. Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Greg Anthony went on rants the night of him being not elected in. He scored more points than any SF in history and STILL didn't make first ballot. The fact that u don't realize Nique had one of the premier scoring skillsets of all time at the SF speaks volumes.

MJ himself even said Nique on the outside viewpoint (the media abd the fans that buy into it) gets shafted and not seen believe it or not as a superstar. But the players in the league during that era viewed him as a superstar. So I'm not going to go on here and list EVERY media member who has said slick shit about Nique. But I've listed icons of basketball and analysts who FEEL THE SAME WAY I FEEL! They proved the point myself and others on here have been talking. We just ain't blowing smoke!

[bizil]

Great work here. I'd also add, that it seems that Iverson has and will get similar treatment down the line. It would've done MASSIVE wonders for Wilkins' career had Atlanta somehow upset Boston in those semi-finals

Well said! If they beat Atlanta in that series, WOW! They had a great chance and the Hawks blew it! It seems some of the exciting scorers in the L like AI and Nique get the label of being a showoff over time if they don't win a ring. Instead of being great players who didn't really have many teams built around them to win it all. Granted, Nique wasn't the all around player that MJ, Bird, and Magic was. However, what Nique did bring to the table was legendary shit. Once again, I'm not saying he's forgotten. But he's doesn't really get his total just due either. And for those that don't believe me, icons of the game like Bird, Magic, MJ, Isiah, and Barkley are saying what I'm saying!

[L.Kizzle]

Once again, Nique not being a first ballot HOFer was a diss. Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Greg Anthony went on rants the night of him being not elected in. He scored more points than any SF in history and STILL didn't make first ballot. The fact that u don't realize Nique had one of the premier scoring skillsets of all time at the SF speaks volumes.

MJ himself even said Nique on the outside viewpoint (the media abd the fans that buy into it) gets shafted and not seen believe it or not as a superstar. But the players in the league during that era viewed him as a superstar. So I'm not going to go on here and list EVERY media member who has said slick shit about Nique. But I've listed icons of basketball and analysts who FEEL THE SAME WAY I FEEL! They proved the point myself and others on here have been talking. We just ain't blowing smoke!
I might have been a diss, but look at some other players who weren't first ballot.

Willis Reed (MVP, 2 time Champ)
Walt Frazier
George Gervin (got in ten years after he retired)
Bob McAdoo


But, than you had players like Alex English, Joe Dumars, Alonzo Mourning. No offense to them, but they were first ballot HOF'ers.

[chocolatethunder]

Once again, Nique not being a first ballot HOFer was a diss. Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Greg Anthony went on rants the night of him being not elected in. He scored more points than any SF in history and STILL didn't make first ballot. The fact that u don't realize Nique had one of the premier scoring skillsets of all time at the SF speaks volumes.

MJ himself even said Nique on the outside viewpoint (the media abd the fans that buy into it) gets shafted and not seen believe it or not as a superstar. But the players in the league during that era viewed him as a superstar. So I'm not going to go on here and list EVERY media member who has said slick shit about Nique. But I've listed icons of basketball and analysts who FEEL THE SAME WAY I FEEL! They proved the point myself and others on here have been talking. We just ain't blowing smoke!
BARKLEY, KENNY SMITH AND ANTHONY ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA. I'm not sure if you realize that. I've never said anything about a Nique not having one of the premier scoring skill sets. Not a single thing. Lots of great players weren't first ballot. Who cares.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The 93-94 Bulls sans Jordan were extra motivated to 'win without MJ' and played to their full potential based on the available talent, that was also probably one of Phil's better coaching jobs. It would have been great to see Jordan on that squad, alongside a fully developed Pippen and Grant, and BJ grown into a solid starting guard. Add Kukoc off the bench, and that team could have been the best of Bulls run.
I've always believed this ... it's basically the '96 Bulls, but with prime Jordan and peak Pippen.

[bizil]

BARKLEY, KENNY SMITH AND ANTHONY ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA. I'm not sure if you realize that. I've never said anything about a Nique not having one of the premier scoring skill sets. Not a single thing. Lots of great players weren't first ballot. Who cares.

But they are FORMER PLAYERS FIRST!! Damn that went right over your head DIDN'T!! LMBAO. And I'm not saying every media member either. I'm talking about a lot of those media members WHO NEVER PLAYED in the NBA! Players of Nique's stature should be easily first ballot. This is THE BASKETBALL HOF! I could see if its baseball where the standards are crazy strict.

[bizil]

I might have been a diss, but look at some other players who weren't first ballot.

Willis Reed (MVP, 2 time Champ)
Walt Frazier
George Gervin (got in ten years after he retired)
Bob McAdoo


But, than you had players like Alex English, Joe Dumars, Alonzo Mourning. No offense to them, but they were first ballot HOF'ers.

I agree. But Wilkins scored more points than any SF ever. And he was great for a long time. Some of the players u named also were deserving of first ballot consideration. But it seemed Nique got shafted EVEN more than the guys like Willis, Frazier, and Gervin in the grand scheme. All of them made the NBA 50 greatest team. So that right there did a lot to right that wrong. McAdoo I feel is another player similar to Nique who don't get their just due overall. He didn't make 50 greatest or wasn't a first ballot HOFer.

I'm not sure about the criteria back in the day for the HOF. But the criteria around Nique's time seemed to be somewhat looser. So Nique should have been EVEN MORE qualified to be first ballot. The HOF including college and international players who never played in the NBA can throw off the balance at times. When in actuality, the NBA is the best league in the world and inspire more people on a worldwide level than ANY PLAYERS ON ANY LEVEL!!

And finally everybody has an opinion of course. But the people WHO ACTUALLY PLAYED against Nique say he doesn't get his just due. And not just any players, we are talking MJ, Magic, Bird, Isiah, and Barkley. So if they were to read ALL THE POSTS on here, they ARE GONNA AGREE WITH ME BEFORE MANY OF U ON HERE!!

[chocolatethunder]

But they are FORMER PLAYERS FIRST!! Damn that went right over your head DIDN'T!! LMBAO. And I'm not saying every media member either. I'm talking about a lot of those media members WHO NEVER PLAYED in the NBA! Players of Nique's stature should be easily first ballot. This is THE BASKETBALL HOF! I could see if its baseball where the standards are crazy strict.
Listen pal, when Gervin, Willis Reed and Walt Frasier don't get in on first ballot, there's no bitching about Nique. Like it or not, those guys are members of the media now. It doesn't matter if they played or not, they are the media and as players they have a voice that's even LOUDER because they are former players. You're arguing about some bias that doesn't even exist. How old are you? I'll bet you're not even old enough to have seen him play.

[bizil]

Listen pal, when Gervin, Willis Reed and Walt Frasier don't get in on first ballot, there's no bitching about Nique. Like it or not, those guys are members of the media now. It doesn't matter if they played or not, they are the media and as players they have a voice that's even LOUDER because they are former players. You're arguing about some bias that doesn't even exist. How old are you? I'll bet you're not even old enough to have seen him play.

Once again, I got MJ, Chuck, Bird, Isiah, and Magic on my side saying Nique doesn't get HIS JUST DUE!! NUFF SAID:pimp: No MATTER WHAT U SAY TO ME how can u defend that. If anything, I was happy those legends spoke up for Nique! So CLEARLY there was enough slick shit going on for them to feel the need to defend Nique!! Once again, u are entitled to your opinion. But the legends I named MAKE MY ARGUMENT STRONGER!! Whose word would I take you OR MJ, Magic, Bird, Isiah, or Barkley!! LMBAO!!

And Gervin, Reed, and Walt deserved first ballot too. WHICH WAS APPARENT when they were voted on the NBA 50 greatest list. Nique got dissed from both honors!! By the way I'm 30+ years old. Nique was my favorite player and followed his career VERY CLOSELY!!

[chocolatethunder]

Once again, I got MJ, Chuck, Bird, Isiah, and Magic on my side saying Nique doesn't get HIS JUST DUE!! NUFF SAID:pimp: No MATTER WHAT U SAY TO ME how can u defend that. If anything, I was happy those legends spoke up for Nique! So CLEARLY there was enough slick shit going on for them to feel the need to defend Nique!! Once again, u are entitled to your opinion. But the legends I named MAKE MY ARGUMENT STRONGER!! Whose word would I take you OR MJ, Magic, Bird, Isiah, or Barkley!! LMBAO!!

And Gervin, Reed, and Walt deserved first ballot too. WHICH WAS APPARENT when they were voted on the NBA 50 greatest list. Nique got dissed from both honors!! By the way I'm 30+ years old. Nique was my favorite player and followed his career VERY CLOSELY!!
He gets his due and you aren't even old enough to have seen him play so you need to chill and talk about something you know. You're just making some weird argument about nothing. He was a beast and a superstar who played for one of the shittiest franchises in the NBA. It's not my fault he had a Brooks sneaker deal. But you probably didn't know that because you were 8 when he retired.

[bizil]

He gets his due and you aren't even old enough to have seen him play so you need to chill and talk about something you know. You're just making some weird argument about nothing. He was a beast and a superstar who played for one of the shittiest franchises in the NBA. It's not my fault he had a Brooks sneaker deal. But you probably didn't know that because you were 8 when he retired.

Are u slow dude!! I got NBA legends saying that Nique doesn't get his just due. Are u a troll or something? Once they said it I KNEW I HAD AMMO to throw at slow dudes like u. My argument isn't weird. It's LEGIT!! I got legends on my side backing my argument. WE DON'T BELIEVE U U NEED MORE PEOPLE!!:pimp:

Nique and Bill Simmons (one of the media members who knows Nique greatness) talk about him not getting his due at the beginning of this video:

http://youtu.be/ReJMkJefNXA

In Nique's HOF speech at 2:20 he talks about how Chuck had his back when Nique didn't get his just due:

http://youtu.be/phw0L7xPgOk

Bottom line is many in the industry feel the way I do. I NEVER SAID EVERY MEDIA OR NBA PLAYER SHITTED ON Nique! But CLEARLY enough to where it's been discussed for YEARS!! I got evidence backing up my point DO U? U just got your opinion which u are entitled to. And I got my opinion, but the opinion I'm stating has major merit because LEGENDS OF THE GAME feel the way me and Simmons do.

[TheBigVeto]

He's better than Kobe.

[gts]

No, from what I recall, Dominique had a partial rupture of the Achilles tendon. Kobe had a complete tear.
:kobe:He was also 32 in his 10th season and not his 19th season..

With Kobe it's not the injury as much as it's the miles on his legs