So one game and Kobe is a huge minus?

[SexSymbol]

May I remind you folks how the Lakers fared last season?
Or how they were destroyed by the spurs in 12-13?
Lakers suck without Kobe, one game doesn't change that and doesn't get them into POs

[toxicxr6]

Lakers best game of the entire season is the one game Kobe doesn't play.. im sorry that's no coincidence..

NEWSFLASH its 2015 BRO and KOBE IS ABSOLUTE TRASH THIS SEASON.. the quicker you come to accept that the less sleepless nights you will have

[Sharmer]

Lakers best game of the entire season is the one game Kobe doesn't play.. im sorry that's no coincidence..

NEWSFLASH its 2015 BRO and KOBE IS ABSOLUTE TRASH THIS SEASON.. the quicker you come to accept that the less sleepless nights you will have


:lol :bowdown:

Facts are facts. Nothing can change that. Where have all these parasite stans gone.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Lakers most likely would have been swept with or without kobe in 2013

[strifed169]

With the rise of teams like the Warriors, Mavs, Hawks hopefully hero ball is a thing of the past, I'm so proud of what the Lakers did last night, they ****ing buried Kobe, what kind of excuses will he have to chuck now? people will have his head if he continues that shit

[K Xerxes]

Take off those bean-tinted glasses son. Shot jacking to 25 ppg on 37% - Kobe has demonstrably been a minus all season.

[Sharmer]

With the rise of teams like the Warriors, Mavs, Hawks hopefully hero ball is a thing of the past, I'm so proud of what the Lakers did last night, they ****ing buried Kobe, what kind of excuses will he have to chuck now? people will have his head if he continues that shit


I don't think Kobe is buried. Just by law of averages he's bound to have a night when he makes 15/30 and the stans will crawl out of caves and under their rocks. They will claim GOAT has returned.

It's really just preposterous.

[Eric Cartman]

OP is literally worse than hitler.

[WallIn]

The games Lakers win are either those when Kobe doesn't play or when he shares the ball. Coincidence?

[LAZERUSS]

Even more remarkable...

There is not ONE single player on the Laker roster that would make the Warriors roster...

and yet, they dominated GS from the start.

Who would have thought a team comprised of a washed-up Boozer, and the rest, never-were's, never-will-be's, and rejects, would become the '87 Lakers?

I guess Byron Scott is on his way to yet another COY.

[ArbitraryWater]

:roll: :roll:

That damage control... right in front of our eyes.

OP was rooting for GS last night, 99 percent sure. ****er can't even enjoy it.

Kobestan CONFIRMED.

[RRR3]

Even more remarkable...

There is not ONE single player on the Laker roster that would make the Warriors roster...

and yet, they dominated GS from the start.

Who would have thought a team comprised of a washed-up Boozer, and the rest, never-were's, never-will-be's, and rejects, would become the '87 Lakers?

I guess Byron Scott is on his way to yet another COY.
If you don't think the Warriors would take Jordan Hill or Ed Davis over Ezeli you're delusional. They don't have a need for a guy like Boozer but he'd make the team easily if he got traded there. They would definitely use Lin to back up curry, and I'm sure they'd take Young and Ellington as additional shooters off the bench. None of these guys would start on the warriors sure but to say they wouldn't make the team is asinine.

[stanlove1111]

Does this surprise anyone? Kobe has had a negative value on teams for years. 2 years ago he didn't get them into the playoff picture by the time he got hurt, they had to win a couple of games after he got hurt to clinch a playoff birth..The most overrated player ever.

Scores a lot of points because he shoots a lot, but doesn't add much value to a team..I am amazed when people can't see that. Top 10 all time my ass.

[La Frescobaldi]

Even more remarkable...

There is not ONE single player on the Laker roster that would make the Warriors roster...

and yet, they dominated GS from the start.

Who would have thought a team comprised of a washed-up Boozer, and the rest, never-were's, never-will-be's, and rejects, would become the '87 Lakers?

I guess Byron Scott is on his way to yet another COY.

C'mon man, Lin would easily make the Warriors roster. Would he start no.

[Nevaeh]

Even more remarkable...

There is not ONE single player on the Laker roster that would make the Warriors roster...

and yet, they dominated GS from the start.

Who would have thought a team comprised of a washed-up Boozer, and the rest, never-were's, never-will-be's, and rejects, would become the '87 Lakers?

I guess Byron Scott is on his way to yet another COY.

It's obvious from both your post history and your frustration over this single game victory that you absolutely hate team ball, dude. We've read hundreds of posts from you yapping about how Wilt dominates the record books, yet he only has 2 championships to show for it. And why is that? Because he was a black hole just like the guy you've been defending all damn night is.

There's this thing called practice and team chemistry that helps teams improve, something that can't be done if your main star player not only not practices, but does bone headed sh!t all game and costs your team victories. Even the friggin Laker crowd was cheering, as if breathing a sigh of relief to finally see some fundamental ball being played again in LA, just like the "olden days" of '87.


A recap of the game for those wondering what team ball looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMO6PnarqQ

[Relinquish]

With the rise of teams like the Warriors, Mavs, Hawks hopefully hero ball is a thing of the past, I'm so proud of what the Lakers did last night, they ****ing buried Kobe, what kind of excuses will he have to chuck now? people will have his head if he continues that shit

Don't forget Wizards and Raptors.

[La Frescobaldi]

Does this surprise anyone? Kobe has had a negative value on teams for years. 2 years ago he didn't get them into the playoff picture by the time he got hurt, they had to win a couple of games after he got hurt to clinch a playoff birth..The most overrated player ever.

Scores a lot of points because he shoots a lot, but doesn't add much value to a team..I am amazed when people can't see that. Top 10 all time my ass.

you and I agree about a whole lot of things and we agree about this too.

on the other hand, Kobe#8 is rapidly being erased from our memories.

[LAZERUSS]

Does this surprise anyone? Kobe has had a negative value on teams for years. 2 years ago he didn't get them into the playoff picture by the time he got hurt, they had to win a couple of games after he got hurt to clinch a playoff birth..The most overrated player ever.

Scores a lot of points because he shoots a lot, but doesn't add much value to a team..I am amazed when people can't see that. Top 10 all time my ass.

Yep...after Kobe played 48 mpg for a stretch of about 10 games to get them that far.

Oh, and then how did LA do in that first round without Kobe?

They were swept, and by an average margin of nearly 20 ppg.


Top-10?

Kobe was the BEST player on the floor in the '01, '02, '04, and '08 playoff series H2H's with the Spurs.

Take Kobe away from the Lakers in '01 and '02, and Shaq is minus two rings.

[La Frescobaldi]

With the rise of teams like the Warriors, Mavs, Hawks hopefully hero ball is a thing of the past, I'm so proud of what the Lakers did last night, they ****ing buried Kobe, what kind of excuses will he have to chuck now? people will have his head if he continues that shit

they are all playing Spurs basketball, which is actually mid-60s Celtics basketball almost note for note.

gah.

Once again you can't get away from that @#% Red Aeurbach

[dontgetchoked]

Take off those bean-tinted glasses son. Shot jacking to 25 ppg on 37% - Kobe has demonstrably been a minus all season.
This. Last nights game wasn't even necessary. If you watch laker games, you can tell that kobe has been holding his teammates down. He wants to take every shot. Its really sad to watch, because kobe is a great player. He still can be if he improves his shot selection and trust his teammates, but he seems to want all the glory for himself.

[La Frescobaldi]

This. Last nights game wasn't even necessary. If you watch laker games, you can tell that kobe has been holding his teammates down. He wants to take every shot. Its really sad to watch, because kobe was a great player. He still can be if he improves his shot selection and trust his teammates, but he seems to want all the glory for himself.

fixed that for you.

now he's a carmelo anthony which blows away in the wind like dust motes as soon as the door closes behind them

[Ariza4three]

Lazerrus getting shit on HARD. I am kekking so much at home atm.

[GimmeThat]

he didn't clothline his coach

[La Frescobaldi]

It's obvious from both your post history and your frustration over this single game victory that you absolutely hate team ball, dude. We've read hundreds of posts from you yapping about how Wilt dominates the record books, yet he only has 2 championships to show for it. And why is that? Because he was a black hole just like the guy you've been defending all damn night is.

There's this thing called practice and team chemistry that helps teams improve, something that can't be done if your main star player not only not practices, but does bone headed sh!t all game and costs your team victories. Even the friggin Laker crowd was cheering, as if breathing a sigh of relief to finally see some fundamental ball being played again in LA, just like the "olden days" of '87.


A recap of the game for those wondering what team ball looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMO6PnarqQ

Chamberlain was a whole lot more than that, dude. He played at the very highest level that I ever saw. Granted Lazer is into stats and all that.

but #13 was the real deal top to bottom, always played to win and definitely definitely played team ball. definitely.

:no: dont go there bro :no:

[LAZERUSS]

Lazerrus getting shit on HARD. I am kekking so much at home atm.

Let's get something straight here.

No one has bashed Kobe more here, for his play in his Finals, than me.

Having said that, we now have complete IDIOTS claiming that he is not a Top-10 player.

I have news for you...in the vast majority of the Spurs-LA playoff series H2Hs, Kobe was the BEST player on the floor. Think about that...Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Manu, and Parker...and it was KOBE who was clearly the most dominant player on the floor.

He has FIVE rings, and if you include all of the playoff series, he was NOT a side-kick. True, Shaq carried them in the "three-peat" Finals, but as I said earlier, he doesn't get to thru the WCF's without Kobe.

As for the current Kobe...who cares. Only completely delusional fans believe that this Laker team is a good team without him.

Take a close look at the careers of the players on this Laker team. There is not ONE good player on the roster. Not ONE. This is a team of rejects...period.

To be honest, I would love nothing more than for Kobe to sit out the next 20 games. I seriously doubt that the Lakers would win more than five of them.

This is a 25 win team with, or without Kobe, and one game is not going to change that.

[CelticBaller]

Even more remarkable...

There is not ONE single player on the Laker roster that would make the Warriors roster...

this is so ****ing stupid

[LAZERUSS]

this is so ****ing stupid

Not ONE.

[Ariza4three]

No wonder Lazerrus liked Wilt so much. He loves players that were carried to championships lmao. 18ppg finals average
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pq2-roB58yE/UgVTWnCbSLI/AAAAAAAAGm8/U6j9t7PtQUY/s1600/Screen+Shot+2013-08-09+at+11.20.16+AM.png

[Dragic4Life]

He's been a "huge minus" since 2004.

[LAZERUSS]

No wonder Lazerrus liked Wilt so much. He loves players that were carried to championships lmao. 18ppg finals average
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pq2-roB58yE/UgVTWnCbSLI/AAAAAAAAGm8/U6j9t7PtQUY/s1600/Screen+Shot+2013-08-09+at+11.20.16+AM.png

This is completely off topic...but I will play...

Chamberlain won a FMVP averaging 19 ppg, and would have won a unanimous FMVP in another in which he averaged 18 ppg. In fact, he was by FAR the best player on the floor in those two Finals, and was also the best player on the floor in two more of them ('64 and '70.)

Of course we all know that he could have scored FAR more if he had wanted to. But, of course, only idiots like yourself claim that scoring is the most important aspect of the game. Those who actually saw the KAJ-Wilt playoff series H2H's would tell you that it was WILT who was the better player in them.

[La Frescobaldi]

Let's get something straight here.

No one has bashed Kobe more here, for his play in his Finals, than me.

Having said that, we now have complete IDIOTS claiming that he is not a Top-10 player.

I have news for you...in the vast majority of the Spurs-LA playoff series H2Hs, Kobe was the BEST player on the floor. Think about that...Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Manu, and Parker...and it was KOBE who was clearly the most dominant player on the floor.

He has FIVE rings, and if you include all of the playoff series, he was NOT a side-kick. True, Shaq carried them in the "three-peat" Finals, but as I said earlier, he doesn't get to thru the WCF's without Kobe.

As for the current Kobe...who cares. Only completely delusional fans believe that this Laker team is a good team without him.

Take a close look at the careers of the players on this Laker team. There is not ONE good player on the roster. Not ONE. This is a team of rejects...period.

To be honest, I would love nothing more than for Kobe to sit out the next 20 games. I seriously doubt that the Lakers would win more than five of them.

This is a 25 win team with, or without Kobe, and one game is not going to change that.

you keep discounting Lin my friend. Stop saying that because it ain't true.

[CelticBaller]

Not ONE.
So Hill wouldn't make the team over Ezeli? Young wouldn't make the team over Barbosa? Lin wouldn't make the team over Holiday

This is extremely disrespectful for those guys, these guys have been in the league for years now and not once have a they gone for over a year without being signed. Stop being a ****ing brick

[LAZERUSS]

you keep discounting Lin my friend. Stop saying that because it ain't true.

And you are over-rating him, my friend.

[LAZERUSS]

So Hill wouldn't make the team over Ezeli? Young wouldn't make the team over Barbosa? Lin wouldn't make the team over Holiday

This is extremely disrespectful for those guys, these guys have been in the league for years now and not once have a they gone for over a year without being signed. Stop being a ****ing brick

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Three clowns that have also accomplished nothing in their careers. Players that are signed by last place teams to fill out their rosters.

[GimmeThat]

you keep discounting Lin my friend. Stop saying that because it ain't true.


what would you call/describe someone who discounts Oxford, because there's nothing worth talking about Harvard?

[CelticBaller]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Three clowns that have also accomplished nothing in their careers. Players that are signed by last place teams to fill out their rosters.
Yeah cause being signed by the Rockets...

oh wait

Or being traded to the playoff bound clippers...

oh wait

how about being traded to the 41 wins lakers...

oh wait

Maybe these guys are ****ing good role players, that are stuck with a guy who shoots 30 shot per game?

Are you THAT out of touch with reality? seriously?

[La Frescobaldi]

And you are over-rating him, my friend.

not over the Warriors bench I ain't.

[T_L_P]

Let's get something straight here.

No one has bashed Kobe more here, for his play in his Finals, than me.

Having said that, we now have complete IDIOTS claiming that he is not a Top-10 player.

I have news for you...in the vast majority of the Spurs-LA playoff series H2Hs, Kobe was the BEST player on the floor. Think about that...Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Manu, and Parker...and it was KOBE who was clearly the most dominant player on the floor.

He has FIVE rings, and if you include all of the playoff series, he was NOT a side-kick. True, Shaq carried them in the "three-peat" Finals, but as I said earlier, he doesn't get to thru the WCF's without Kobe.

As for the current Kobe...who cares. Only completely delusional fans believe that this Laker team is a good team without him.

Take a close look at the careers of the players on this Laker team. There is not ONE good player on the roster. Not ONE. This is a team of rejects...period.

To be honest, I would love nothing more than for Kobe to sit out the next 20 games. I seriously doubt that the Lakers would win more than five of them.

This is a 25 win team with, or without Kobe, and one game is not going to change that.

In their 5 Playoff matchups, Kobe was the clear-cut best player in two (01 and 08). Duncan was the clear-cut best in 99 and 03. Shaq was the best in 04. Duncan and Kobe both have very strong arguments for 02, but Duncan did put up more PPG, RPG, BPG, had a better TS%, and matched Kobe in Assists and Steals (on a better Ast% and Stl%), and he was receiving more defensive attention (that was probably Duncan's worst team, certainly from an offensive standpoint).

Kobe was a killer, but you need to remember Shaq/Duncan/Robinson were all super focused on each other. Kobe was being guarded by guys like Antonio Daniels and post-kidney surgery Sean Elliot. That's miles better than being defended by two of the five greatest defensive players in NBA history. :confusedshrug:

[La Frescobaldi]

In their 5 Playoff matchups, Kobe was the clear-cut best player in two (01 and 08). Duncan was the clear-cut best in 99 and 03. Shaq was the best in 04. Duncan and Kobe both have very strong arguments for 02, but Duncan did put up more PPG, RPG, BPG, had a better TS%, and matched Kobe in Assists and Steals (on a better Ast% and Stl%), and he was receiving more defensive attention (that was probably Duncan's worst team, certainly from an offensive standpoint).

Kobe was a killer, but you need to remember Shaq/Duncan/Robinson were all super focused on each other. Kobe was being guarded by guys like Antonio Daniels and post-kidney surgery Sean Elliot. That's miles better than being defended by two of the five greatest defensive players in NBA history. :confusedshrug:
??

[T_L_P]

??

Robinson and Duncan. I personally think they're top 5, but they're unquestionably top 10 tbh. :confusedshrug:

[LAZERUSS]

In their 5 Playoff matchups, Kobe was the clear-cut best player in two (01 and 08). Duncan was the clear-cut best in 99 and 03. Shaq was the best in 04. Duncan and Kobe both have very strong arguments for 02, but Duncan did put up more PPG, RPG, BPG, had a better TS%, and matched Kobe in Assists and Steals (on a better Ast% and Stl%), and he was receiving more defensive attention (that was probably Duncan's worst team, certainly from an offensive standpoint).

Kobe was a killer, but you need to remember Shaq/Duncan/Robinson were all super focused on each other. Kobe was being guarded by guys like Antonio Daniels and post-kidney surgery Sean Elliot. That's miles better than being defended by two of the five greatest defensive players in NBA history. :confusedshrug:

Just for the record. Duncan had horrific 4th quarters against Shaq in their '01, '02, '03, and '04 series H2H's. I believe fatal9 posted that he shot about 33% overall in them. In any case, Jackson would finally put Shaq on Duncan in the 4th quarters, and he would promptly fold his tent against him. Even in their game five win in '03, Duncan was shaking like a leaf as LA nearly came all the way back from 25 point deficit.

Secondly, Kobe murdered "the Kobe-killer" Bruce Bowen in '08. In fact, he was going right around Bowen and challenging Duncan at the rim. Duncan couldn't stop him, either.

[riseagainst]

Just for the record. Duncan had horrific 4th quarters against Shaq in their '01, '02, '03, and '04 series H2H's. I believe fatal9 posted that he shot about 33% overall in them. In any case, Jackson would finally put Shaq on Duncan in the 4th quarters, and he would promptly fold his tent against him. Even in their game five win in '03, Duncan was shaking like a leaf as LA nearly came all the way back from 25 point deficit.

Secondly, Kobe murdered "the Kobe-killer" Bruce Bowen in '08. In fact, he was going right around Bowen and challenging Duncan at the rim. Duncan couldn't stop him, either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmT7nL9Gnkw

complete domination.
peak Kobe at his best.
:bowdown:
:bowdown:

[JellyBean]

May I remind you folks how the Lakers fared last season?
Or how they were destroyed by the spurs in 12-13?
Lakers suck without Kobe, one game doesn't change that and doesn't get them into POs

Did you not watch the game? The Lakers played with so much energy. Like Nick Young said, some people played like DJango Unchained; they were free yesterday!!!

[La Frescobaldi]

Robinson and Duncan. I personally think they're top 5, but they're unquestionably top 10 tbh. :confusedshrug:

oh oh I gotcha now. I was reading your post different. i was trying to find top 10 D guys on the Lakers could not do it

well now those were some ferociously good Defenders no question lol!!

[KungFuJoe]

Kobe makes his teammates better.

By not playing.

[NBASTATMAN]

Just for the record. Duncan had horrific 4th quarters against Shaq in their '01, '02, '03, and '04 series H2H's. I believe fatal9 posted that he shot about 33% overall in them. In any case, Jackson would finally put Shaq on Duncan in the 4th quarters, and he would promptly fold his tent against him. Even in their game five win in '03, Duncan was shaking like a leaf as LA nearly came all the way back from 25 point deficit.

Secondly, Kobe murdered "the Kobe-killer" Bruce Bowen in '08. In fact, he was going right around Bowen and challenging Duncan at the rim. Duncan couldn't stop him, either.


Wasn't BRUCE BOWEN LIKE 37 YEARS OLD... :facepalm

Duncan hadnt yet started his HGH at that point and looked like a old man as well...

Great Move by COACH SCOTT last night.. Kobe is a incredible talent but he is just killing THE LAKERS WITH HIS PLAY.. :facepalm

[jstern]

Chamberlain was a whole lot more than that, dude. He played at the very highest level that I ever saw. Granted Lazer is into stats and all that.

but #13 was the real deal top to bottom, always played to win and definitely definitely played team ball. definitely.

:no: dont go there bro :no:
With the little that I know of Wilt, I have to agree that he did make a huge effort of playing team ball. I think he even led the league in assists one time.

[LAZERUSS]

No wonder Lazerrus liked Wilt so much. He loves players that were carried to championships lmao. 18ppg finals average


Yep...18 ppg. And he only averaged 22 ppg in his playoff career.

What a choker.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362392


The Wilt-bashers always use the "50-22-18" argument (which, BTW, would round to 50-23-19) as some kind of example of Chamberlain's "decline" in his post-season play.

How about his 66-67 post-season, in which he averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg, and 9.0 apg, then? Obviously he must REALLY have been a flop that year, right? At that point in his NBA career, his regular season averages were 37.6 ppg, 24.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, and on a .522 FG%. Of course, he was always a great defensive center, and most likely the greatest shot-blocker of his generation (sorry Russell,, but in the known research we have, Wilt was easily the GOAT.)

So, "Mr. 50-22-18", which only refers to his post-season scoring, and ignores everything else he did...could "only" put up a 22 ppg post-season run, and an even worse 18 ppg Finals, in arguably, his peak season.

Oh wait..he didn't average 50 ppg in 66-67. In fact, he "only" averaged 24.1 ppg. So, his "decline" was really from 24 down to 22 in the post-season, and down to 18 in the Finals.

Now, how did he fare against the same teams in the post-season, that he faced in his regular season? Against the Royals, his regular season averages were 28.6 ppg, 23.7 rpg, 9.4 apg, and on a .695 FG%. Against Russell's Celtics, his regular season averages were 20.3 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 6.6 apg, and a .549 FG%. Now, in his nineregular season H2H's with the Warriors, he faced Nate Thurmond in six of them. He actually fared worse in the games that Nate missed, so here were his cumulative averages... 20.7 ppg, 25.9 rpg, 8.8 apg, and on a .562 FG%. In his six H2H's with Thurmond, he averaged 20.8 ppg, 25.0 rpg, 8.5 apg, and on a .633 FG% (yes, a .633 FG% against THURMOND.)

BTW, here were his regular season H2H's with Russell and Thurmond:

Russell: 12.2 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, .425 FG%
Wilt: 20.3 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 6.6 apg, .549 FG%

Thurmond: 13.2 ppg, 23.8 rpg, .320 FG%
Wilt: 20.8 ppg, 25.0 rpg, 8.5 apg, and on a .633 FG%


Ok, round-by-round in the playoffs:

For those that claim that Wilt wasn't even Philly's scoring leader in the post-season (he finished 2nd at 21.7 ppg behind Hal Greer's 27.7 ppg), how about the Sixers very first playoff game? Chamberlain scored what would be a team playoff high in that game, with 41 points, on 19-30 shooting. In his very next game, he hung 37 points, on 16-24 shooting. After that, his shot attempts dropped considerably. Why? Was it because he couldn't score? Well, in his third playoff game, he could only score 16 points, on 8-13 shooting, BUT in addition to pulling down 30 rebounds, he also handed out...get this... 19 assists! Furthermore, while we don't have his exact block totals, there were accounts of as high as 20 blocked shots. And in the series finale (the first round was only a best-of-five back then), he put up an "ordinary" 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds, and 9 assists, in a blowout win.

First round numbers:

28.0 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, and on a .617 FG%. The "bashers" would tell you that he did decline, dropping from 28.6 ppg and on a .695 FG% in his regular season H2H's, all the way down to a 28.0 ppg on a .617 FG% (oh, and as he nearly always did, he ELEVATED his rebounding), from 23.7 ppg to 26.5 rpg, as well as raising his apg from 9.4 apg to 11.0 apg.

And, for those that did not catch that...yes, he AVERAGED a TRIPLE DOUBLE. In fact it was also a double-double in scoring and rebounding, 28-27, and in fact, a near DOUBLE-TRIPLE-DOUBLE!


In the 66-67 EDF's, the "declining" Wilt then carried his 68-13 Sixers to a 4-1 series blowout over the eight-time defending 60-21 Celtics. In fact, they nearly swept the Celtics, narrowly losing game four in Boston by a 121-117 margin (and Wilt was hobbled with an assortment of nagging injuries in that game, BTW.) Furthermore, in the clinching game five win, the Celtics had jumped out to a 17 point first quarter lead, before the Sixers mounted a comeback. By mid-way thru the 4th period, the Sixers had blown the game wide-open, and were leading by a 131-104 margin, en route to a 140-116 win.

As usual, Chamberlain just demolished Russell. However, for the first time in his career H2H's with Russell,he had an equal supporting cast...that was healthy, and that played to their normal capabilities in the playoffs.

In game one, Russell played his best game of the series. He scored 20 points, on 7-14 shooting, but could only snare 15 rebounds. Meanwhile, Chamberlain hung a KNOWN quad-double on Russell, with a 24 point game, on 9-13 shooting, 32 rebounds, 13 asisists, and 12 blocks. BTW, not only did Chamberlain crush Russell on the glass, his 32 rebounds came in a game with a total of 128. Oh, and Wilt not only blocked 12 shots, he out-blocked Russell by a 12-1 margin.

In game two, Chamberlain easily outplayed Russell, outscoring him by a 15-14 margin; outshooting him by a 5-11 to 5-14 margin; outrebounding him by a 29-24 margin; he equalled Russell in assists at 5; and he outblocked him by a 5-3 margin.

The Sixers moved out to an insurmountable 3-0 series lead in game three. Russell had a huge rebounding game, with 29. HOWEVER, Chamberlain STILL slaughtered him on the glass, with a playoff record 41 rebounds. BTW, those 41 rebounds came in a game in which there were a total of 134 (or 30% of the available rebounds.) Both Wilt and Russell handed out nine assists, but Wilt outscored Russell, 20-10, while outshooting him by an 8-14 to 3-13 margin.

Again, in game four, Chamberlain's knees were bothering him, and his mobility was really hindered. This was Russell's last hurrah. He was still easily outplayed by Chamberlain, but he did manage to outrebound Wilt for the only time in the series, 28-22. Wilt outscored him, 20-9; outshot him, 8-18 to 2-7, and outassisted him, 10-5.

I already provided the score in the clinching game five blowout win, but Wilt's completely overwhelmed a helpless Russell in the game. In the first half, the game was still close, and by half-time, Chamberlain had hung 22 points on Russell. So, it was pretty clear, that had he needed to score, he was well on his way to yet another 40 point pasting of Russell. However, he didn't need to. His teammates finally outplayed Russell's, and the rout was on. Hal Greer led Philly in scoring, with 32 points, but on 12-28 shooting. Chamberlain finished with 29 points, but on 10-16 from the field. Overall, Wilt crushed Russell in every facet of the game. He outscored Russell, 29-4; out-shot Russell, 10-16 to 2-5; outassisted Russell, 13-7; and outrebounded Russell by a staggering 36-21 margin (in a game with 134 available rebounds.) We don't have Russell's blcoked shots, but Wilt added 7 of those.

BTW, the Russell-supporters have never been able to answer this question:

Just the season before, Wilt and his Sixers were down in the EDF series to Boston by a 3-1 margin. So, with his back to the wall, Chamberlain erupted for a 46 point game, on 19-34 shooting, and with 34 rebounds...in a close loss.

Ok, now in the '67 EDF's, it was Russell who was faced with that exact same scenario. His team was also down 3-1, and facing elimination in game five. Did Russell explode for a 46-34 game against Wilt? Hell no, he meekly led his team to slaughter with a meager 4 point, 2-5 shooting, 21 rebound game (while Wilt was just murdering him.)

How come? If Russell truly "owned" Wilt, as the "bashers" will tell you (the famous "11-2" crap), what happened in '67? BTW, Chamberlain essentially outplayed Russell by those margins in nearly all of their H2H series.

For the series:

Russell: 10.2 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 apg, and on a .358 FG%.
Wilt: 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, 10.0 apg, and on a .556 FG%.

And again, a TRIPLE-DOUBLE series. As a sidenote, in their known blocks, Wilt held a 29-8 margin.


In the Finals, Wilt's Sixers stumbled some, but still won by a convincing 4-2 margin. And, at their best in the series, they obliterated the Warriors in game two, 126-95.

Keep in mind that this was also a PEAK Thurmond. Nate would finish second to Wilt in the MVP balloting, and for the season against the NBA, he averaged 18.7 ppg, 20.5 rpg, and shot .437 from the field.

And yet Chamberlain just mopped the floor with Nate in the Finals. True, his scoring declined a little, but the domination was evident in the entire series. Wilt outscored Nate in five of the six H2H's; outrebounded Nate in five of the six H2H's; outassisted Nate in five of the six H2H's; and outshot Thurmond from the field in all six. We don't have much block info, but Wilt had a known 10 blocked shots in game two, and an estimated 15 in game four. BTW, Wilt's game two was yet a another QUAD DOUBLE (10-38-10-10.)

And again, when it mattered most, it was WILT who was scoring. In the clinching game six win, Greer could only score 15 points, on 5-16 shooting. Meanwhile, Chamberlain oustcored Nate, 24-12, while outshooting Thurmond from the field by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin.

Overall:

Nate: 14.3 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 3.3 apg, and on...get this... a .343 FG%.
Wilt: 17.5 ppg, 28.5 rpg, 6.8 apg, and on a .560 FG%.


So, here was an example of a PEAK Chamberlain, who could "only" put up a post-season of 22 ppg, and a Finals of 18 ppg. Way down from his career high of 50 ppg. Yep...a great example of the "50-22-18" argument used against Wilt. THAT was Wilt "the choker."

[Budadiiii]

Kobe still has intimidation factor. I am still more scared when OKC plays Kobe than when they play LeBron.

I think many players would agree. Wiggins did say it was much harder to play against Kobe.

LeBron is kindof a weak competitor. No one is really intimidated by LeBron.

[ImKobe]

I'll be the first to admit that more often than none, Kobe has hurt his team in terms of winning basketball games this season, but people should chill with all the hate for these reasons:

1) They are going to miss the Playoffs whether he plays or not
2) He's doing them a service with losing winnable games due to playing into shape or trying to be like his old self despite not having the legs, he's helping them get that top 5 pick. More losses = higher chance they get to keep their pick, maybe they luck out in lotto like Cavs last year?
3) Dude's done so much in his career, a bad season at the tail end of his career isn't going to change his all-time ranking nor what he's accomplished in the past (see: Wiz MJ, Shaq post Miami, Raptors Hakeem)..


So yeah, his games this season for the most part are forgettable, but we should appreciate him still putting in that work at his age and with his injuries. He's still going to give us some memorable games (like the Raptors triple double, that clutch game on the road against the Hawks).
I'm willing to take the good with the bad and hope the Lakers put together a competitive roster next season.

[LAZERUSS]

With the little that I know of Wilt, I have to agree that he did make a huge effort of playing team ball. I think he even led the league in assists one time.

No other "GOAT" was ever asked to change his game more often in his career, than Chamberlain.

Can you imagine a coach going to a high-scoring MJ and asking him to lead the league in assists? Or asking a prime KAJ to cut back his scoring, and become a more "balanced" player? Or asking a Shaq near the end of his career to concentrate on rebounding, defense, and starting the fast-break with outlet passes?

Even Wilt admitted some time after he retired, that he probably made a mistake on listening to at least some of his coach's. Clearly, his accepting Van Breda Kolf's "plan" cost him, and his team a ring in '69.

[LAZERUSS]

Wasn't BRUCE BOWEN LIKE 37 YEARS OLD... :facepalm

Duncan hadnt yet started his HGH at that point and looked like a old man as well...

Great Move by COACH SCOTT last night.. Kobe is a incredible talent but he is just killing THE LAKERS WITH HIS PLAY.. :facepalm

Bowen was voted First Team All-Defense for a 5th year in a row.

BTW, anyone that watched that series could see that the entire Spurs defensive game plan was concentrated on stopping Kobe. And he still destroyed them.

[Mr Feeny]

Bowen was voted First Team All-Defense for a 5th year in a row.

BTW, anyone that watched that series could see that the entire Spurs defensive game plan was concentrated on stopping Kobe. And he still destroyed them.

So he was 37? Ok then:cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

So he was 37? Ok then:cheers:

Nope... 36


And still the best defensive "non-center" in the league.

:cheers:

[ImKobe]

Bowen was voted First Team All-Defense for a 5th year in a row.

BTW, anyone that watched that series could see that the entire Spurs defensive game plan was concentrated on stopping Kobe. And he still destroyed them.

Kobe torched EVERYONE in that series, literally no one on that Spurs roster could slow him down. They used Manu & Bowen on him, and he would just blow by both of them with regularity and finish over Duncan like it's nothing

Just look at his Game 5 to clinch the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GpQBkY_veQ

They played him tight and he made it look so easy, he'd drive to the paint and have 2-3 guys try to contest his shot but he was just way too athletic for them. Leaving only Bowen on him in that series was like giving up an automatic 2 points. Kobe was on another level in that series. Kobe had what, 12 points in the 4th quarter of that game and 26 in the 2nd half?

[Mr Feeny]

Nope... 36


And still the best defensive "non-center" in the league.

:cheers:In other words, over 35 and past his prime? Ok then:cheers:

Btw you misspelt "LeBron James" because he was arguably the best defensive perimeter player in basketball despite what the all D first team says.

Later, Mr 18 ppg in finals:lol

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe torched EVERYONE in that series, literally no one on that Spurs roster could slow him down. They used Manu & Bowen on him, and he would just blow by both of them with regularity and finish over Duncan like it's nothing

Just look at his Game 5 to clinch the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GpQBkY_veQ

They played him tight and he made it look so easy, he'd drive to the paint and have 2-3 guys try to contest his shot but he was just way too athletic for them. Leaving only Bowen on him in that series was like giving up an automatic 2 points. Kobe was on another level in that series. Kobe had what, 12 points in the 4th quarter of that game?

Just a shame that predictably and inevitably capitulated when it really mattered in the NBA finals AGAIN. What was it, 40%fg? :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Kobe torched EVERYONE in that series, literally no one on that Spurs roster could slow him down. They used Manu & Bowen on him, and he would just blow by both of them with regularity and finish over Duncan like it's nothing

Just look at his Game 5 to clinch the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GpQBkY_veQ

They played him tight and he made it look so easy, he'd drive to the paint and have 2-3 guys try to contest his shot but he was just way too athletic for them. Leaving only Bowen on him in that series was like giving up an automatic 2 points. Kobe was on another level in that series. Kobe had what, 12 points in the 4th quarter of that game and 26 in the 2nd half?

He would go around 2-3 defenders, and then dunk on Duncan.

The Spurs had no answer.

[LAZERUSS]

Just a shame that predictably and inevitably capitulated when it really mattered in the NBA finals AGAIN. What was it, 40%fg? :oldlol:


He was never a great Finals performer, but his Lakers wouldn't have ever gotten there without him.

[Mr Feeny]

He would go around 2-3 defenders, and then dunk on Duncan.

The Spurs had no answer.

Kobe had no answer for Pierce in the next round:cheers:
Embarassed on his home floor in a 24 point lead capitulation - WORST ever in the history of the finals
And a 36 point blowout - Worst ever in a championship clinching game in the history of the league.

Mr 37%fg:bowdown:

[Mr Feeny]

He was never a great Finals performer, but his Lakers wouldn't have ever gotten there without him.

No, he certainly wasn't. A choker when it really counts in the finals. Shades of Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

Kobe had no answer for Pierce in the next round:cheers:
Embarassed on his home floor in a 24 point lead capitulation - WORST ever in the history of the finals
And a 36 point blowout - Worst ever in a championship clinching game in the history of the league.

Mr 37%fg:bowdown:

Never said he was a great Finals performer. But Shaq doesn't have two of his rings without him. And the Lakers don't have FOUR in the decade of the 2000's.

[LAZERUSS]

No, he certainly wasn't. A choker when it really counts in the finals. Shades of Wilt.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Give me Chamberlain the "choker" in the Finals.

[Mr Feeny]

Never said he was a great Finals performer. But Shaq doesn't have two of his rings without him. And the Lakers don't have FOUR in the decade of the 2000's.

Sure he does, with any decent side kick:cheers:

[ImKobe]

No, he certainly wasn't. A choker when it really counts in the finals. Shades of Wilt.

Dude won 71% of his NBA Finals appearances. Don't compare him to less efficient players.

[Mr Feeny]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Give me Chamberlain the "choker" in the Finals.take him!! You're not winning much:roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Sure he does, with any decent side kick:cheers:

Yep...any sidekick that can score 40+ points in key playoff games. And average over 30 ppg in a series. And be the BEST player on the floor in SEVERAL of them.

Easy to find.

:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Dude won 71% of his NBA Finals appearances. Don't compare him to less efficient players.

Err...no his team won.
Efficient team?
Because Mr 40%fg in the finals is certainly anythung but an efficient player:oldlol:

How's that golden state win without the black hole on offense?

[tmacattack33]

It wasn't really just one game.

Many people were saying this way before last night's game.

And Kobe's plus minus differential or whatever showed that he was detrimental to his team.

I myself don't think they're a good team at all, and Kobe wasn't hurting them too much. But when he comes back I think he'll be passing more.

[LAZERUSS]

take him!! You're not winning much:roll:

None other than John Wooden...

Had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach as his coach, and it would have been WILT with all those rings.

And of course, we had PROOF of that in '67.

[Mr Feeny]

Yep...any sidekick that can score 40+ points in key playoff games. And average over 30 ppg in a series. And be the BEST player on the floor in SEVERAL of them.

Easy to find.

:cheers:

Except when it really matters:roll:
40%fg when the championship is on he line:cheers:
Shades of Mr 18 ppg in the finals.

[LAZERUSS]

Err...no his team won.
Efficient team?
Because Mr 40%fg in the finals is certainly anythung but an efficient player:oldlol:

How's that golden state win without the black hole on offense?

Then evidently Shaq wasn't even as great then, since his TEAMs only won FOUR rings and in a longer career.

[LAZERUSS]

Except when it really matters:roll:
40%fg when the championship is on he line:cheers:
Shades of Mr 18 ppg in the finals.

You mean losing in the WCF's is better than losing in the Finals?

You must be a big-time Hakeem fan. Except he couldn't even get past the first round in the majority of his playoff career.

[Mr Feeny]

It wasn't really just one game.

Many people were saying this way before last night's game.

And Kobe's plus minus differential or whatever showed that he was detrimental to his team.

I myself don't think they're a good team at all, and Kobe wasn't hurting them too much. But when he comes back I think he'll be passing more.
Exactly right. It's pathetic how some of the Kobe stans were rooting against the Lakers last night because it would make Kobe look bad if they suddenly spank the best team in the league the moment he is benched.

[Mr Feeny]

You mean losing in the WCF's is better than losing in the Finals?

You must be a big-time Hakeem fan. Except he couldn't even get past the first round in the majority of his playoff career.So u agree that on the big get stage, he mirrors Wilt and chokes?

Ok then:cheers:

[ImKobe]

Except when it really matters:roll:
40%fg when the championship is on he line:cheers:
Shades of Mr 18 ppg in the finals.

So he wasn't at his best 100 games into the season, so what? His teams won it when they were expected to, Could he have played better in some of those wins? Sure. But as a Laker fan, I don't care about his FG% as long as we win, it has always been this way.

Only obsessed stans would be insecure enough to give a rat's ass about some petty stuff like that.

Kobe had some amazing Playoff series alongside Shaq, namely when they went undefeated in the WC Playoffs in 01, when Kobe was their best performer in the first 3 series.

[Mr Feeny]

Then evidently Shaq wasn't even as great then, since his TEAMs only won FOUR rings and in a longer career.I don't even.....

what the heck did I just read:wtf:

[LAZERUSS]

So u agree that on the big get stage, he mirrors Wilt and chokes?

Ok then:cheers:

Again, Shaq doesn't get a ring in '01 and '02 without Kobe carrying him against the Spurs.

Again, give me an example of Wilt "choking" in the Finals. THE greatest FINALS rebounder of all-time, and in EVERY one of them, and badly outplaying his HOF centers in EVERY one of them.

[Mr Feeny]

So he wasn't at his best 100 games into the season, so what? His teams won it when they were expected to, Could he have played better in some of those wins? Sure. But as a Laker fan, I don't care about his FG% as long as we win, it has always been this way.

Only obsessed stans would be insecure enough to give a rat's ass about some petty stuff like that.

Kobe had some amazing Playoff series alongside Shaq, namely when they went undefeated in the WC Playoffs in 01, when Kobe was their best performer in the first 3 series.

You go out of your way to make idiotic posts trolling Lebron. Don't talk about the irrationality of Kobe "stans" as if you aren't one yourself.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't even.....

what the heck did I just read:wtf:

Exactly.

TEAM game when it comes to Kobe, who carried LA into the Finals in the three-peat, but it is SHAQ who gets credit in the Finals, right?

:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Again, Shaq doesn't get a ring in '01 and '02 without Kobe carrying him against the Spurs.

Again, give me an example of Wilt "choking" in the Finals. THE greatest FINALS rebounder of all-time, and in EVERY one of them, and badly outplaying his HOF centers in EVERY one of them.Why doesn't he? Give Shaq T mac and he would feast on the Spurs if he had Shaq commanding all the defensive attention like Kobe had.
ANY BODY should be expected to dominate if they have Shaq taking the defense ' s attention.

And of course when it really matters - the finals - Mr 40%fg and Mr 18 ppg in the finals have a lot in common.:cheers:

[ImKobe]

You go out of your way to make idiotic posts trolling Lebron. Don't talk about the irrationality of Kobe "stans" as if you aren't one yourself.

I am a rational poster. I do admit I like to have fun at times and take jabs at certain Bran stans, but it's just for kicks.

[Mr Feeny]

Exactly.

TEAM game when it comes to Kobe, who carried LA into the Finals in the three-peat, but it is SHAQ who gets credit in the Finals, right?

:cheers:

Again, I don't even...
Kobe waaaaa?
I don't even know if you're sane :wtf:

[Nevaeh]

Kobe still has intimidation factor. I am still more scared when OKC plays Kobe than when they play LeBron.

I think many players would agree. Wiggins did say it was much harder to play against Kobe.

LeBron is kindof a weak competitor. No one is really intimidated by LeBron.

Ironic considering Lebron not only has a better Head 2 Head record against Kobe, but is also way more clutch as well.
:oldlol:


A great thread here, that pretty much Nukes the hell out of the "Intimdation" myths:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363191&page=11

[Mr Feeny]

I am a rational poster. I do admit I like to have fun at times and take jabs at certain Bran stans, but it's just for kicks.

Fair enough. I've read some rational and objective stuff by you so I've been confused about what you are. This guy was angry and seething when the Lakers won last night. A.W. called him out and Embarassed him on it. This falls into that category and can't be taken seriously.

[ImKobe]

Why doesn't he? Give Shaq T mac and he would feast on the Spurs if he had Shaq commanding all the defensive attention like Kobe had.
ANY BODY should be expected to dominate if they have Shaq taking the defense ' s attention.

And of course when it really matters - the finals - Mr 40%fg and Mr 18 ppg in the finals have a lot in common.:cheers:

This is all hypothetical though. You don't know exactly how T-Mac would have performed in the Playoffs or how him and Shaq would have meshed. Maybe he screws up in a big game or two and they do not see the next round.

Would a 20 yr old T-Mac do what Kobe did in 2000 WCF Game 7? Be the best player on his team when they need him to? Would a 21 yr old T-Mac do what Kobe did in the WC Playoffs that year? Doubt it.

[Mr Feeny]

This is all hypothetical though. You don't know exactly how T-Mac would have performed in the Playoffs or how him and Shaq would have meshed. Maybe he screws up in a big game or two and they do not see the next round.

Would a 20 yr old T-Mac do what Kobe did in 2000 WCF Game 7? Be the best player on his team when they need him to? Would a 21 yr old T-Mac do what Kobe did in the WC Playoffs that year? Doubt it.

Exactly right. It works the other way though. This moron just said that Kobe LED Shaq to the finals 3 times and Shaq wouldn't have gotten there without him. If it's hypothetical (and you're right ) then who's to say another top side kick wouldn't have done the same?

[Hey Yo]

115 points w/o Kobe? So much for the stans saying

"who else can fu**ing score on this Lakers roster except Kobe!?!!?!?!?!??!"

"He has to shoot that much cause nobody else on the team can fu**ing score"

:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Why doesn't he? Give Shaq T mac and he would feast on the Spurs if he had Shaq commanding all the defensive attention like Kobe had.
ANY BODY should be expected to dominate if they have Shaq taking the defense ' s attention.

And of course when it really matters - the finals - Mr 40%fg and Mr 18 ppg in the finals have a lot in common.:cheers:

How many playoff series wins did T-Mac have again?

And how many rings did Kobe win without Shaq?

And how many times did he hang a 33 ppg .514 FG% series on the Spurs in the WCF's?

Or hanging a 26 ppg .455 FG% on the Spurs while Shaq was putting up a 22 ppg .447 series against them?

[Mr Feeny]

How many playoff series wins did T-Mac have again?

And how many times did he hang a 33 ppg .514 FG% series on the Spurs in the WCF's?

Or hanging a 26 ppg .455 FG% on the Spurs while Shaq was putting up a 22 ppg .447 series against them?

Did T Mac get to play with prime Shaq?
Are you thick?

[Mr Feeny]

115 points w/o Kobe? So much for the stans saying

"who else can fu**ing score on this Lakers roster except Kobe!?!!?!?!?!??!"

"He has to shoot that much cause nobody else on the team can fu**ing score"

:oldlol:

And the idiot who posted right after you was throwing a tantrum because he hoped the Lakers would lose last night.

[YouGotServed]

:biggums: One game? Kobe is shooting 38% for the season. Do you even basketball?

[LAZERUSS]

Exactly right. It works the other way though. This moron just said that Kobe LED Shaq to the finals 3 times and Shaq wouldn't have gotten there without him. If it's hypothetical (and you're right ) then who's to say another top side kick wouldn't have done the same?

Shaq was SWEPT SIX times in his post-season career. He won ONE ring without Kobe, and he was a SIDE-KICK when he did.

Again, he doesn't sniff the Finals in '01 and '02 without Kobe carrying those teams thru the playoffs.

[Mr Feeny]

Shaq was SWEPT SIX times in his post-season career. He won ONE ring without Kobe, and he was a SIDE-KICK when he did.

Again, he doesn't sniff the Finals in '01 and '02 without Kobe carrying those teams thru the playoffs.

Aha...mhmm...Alright. ..that's settled then. Thx mate.

[Mr Feeny]

:biggums: One game? Kobe is shooting 38% for the season. Do you even basketball?
They don't, unfortunately

[ImKobe]

:biggums: One game? Kobe is shooting 38% for the season. Do you even basketball?

Realistically though, the on/off stats only prove that the Lakers bench is more effective against other team's benches than their starters and the win against GSW can be explained by the fact that the Warriors were on a 2nd night of a b2b while the Lakers decided to sit Kobe, which they probably weren't prepared for and the Lakers' 3pt shooting carried them all night.

Warriors looked mortal this time and the Lakers managed not to allow 120+ points like they did in the 2 games prior. There's not going to be many games where Ellington, Lin, Wes & Price combine 10/20 from 3.

[La Frescobaldi]

Aha...mhmm...Alright. ..that's settled then. Thx mate.

Shaq did get swept a lot tbh. more i think than any all time great even jordan

[Human Error]

Not just one game, idiot. It has been this way for years and you Kobe stans have been just too blind and dumb to see it. If you jack up 25 shots a game at 37% clip, there is no way you are helping the team in any possible way. Kobe sits, ball moves better and young guys get more confident. Not to mention Kobe does not defend at all.

[Rojogaqu11]

You still don't get it, do you?
It's all part of the master plan. Baptism by fire.
Remove the metal from the flames and the true steel is revealed.
Just mind games adopted from the Zen master.
It's not too late to realize how the Lakers are being built up through the Kobe system.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/3387202/kobe-system-you-re-welcome-o.gif

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

you and I agree about a whole lot of things and we agree about this too.

on the other hand, Kobe#8 is rapidly being erased from our memories.

Agreeing with an idiot makes you an idiot too, you know

[Rooster]

I'm suprised that they won but I'm not surprised they played well together without Kobe. Ball usually move better without him and they tend to look for better shots. Not that they going to win a lot of games because defensively they still suck. Having said that, I rather see Lakers lose and lose a lot so they can keep the top 5 pick. Hopefully they can trade some of the players for future picks, first rounders will be nice.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Not just one game, idiot. It has been this way for years and you Kobe stans have been just too blind and dumb to see it. If you jack up 25 shots a game at 37% clip, there is no way you are helping the team in any possible way. Kobe sits, ball moves better and young guys get more confident. Not to mention Kobe does not defend at all.

For years? Which years?

[strifed169]

Kobe only top 50 scorer shooting under 40% :lol

[shadow]

there is absolutely no way anyone can say Kobe makes the team better this season. Other than a few good performances he's been a negative thanks mainly to his own bone headed play. All that said, the team still sucks imo. Kobe just isn't good enough to change that or drag them to the playoffs like he did with Kwame/Walton/Smush team.

[SexSymbol]

This is the ultimate one game overreaction.
Similar to OKC-MIA 2012 G1
I think that Kobe has dominated this league for so long, that when he's finally falling apart, people will take every little thing that goes for their argument and will stretch it as far as they can.
I mean, everybody was expecting for him to be close to done in 12-13, and he rejuvenated himself.
Damn, if only not for that injury, he could've been a similar level players this year too

[HurricaneKid]

May I remind you folks how the Lakers fared last season?
Or how they were destroyed by the spurs in 12-13?
Lakers suck without Kobe, one game doesn't change that and doesn't get them into POs

After a third of a season, in more minutes than a college season, the Lakers are

11 points better than opponents per 100 possessions when Kobe is not on the floor
13 points WORSE than opponents per 100 poss when Kobe is on the floor.

find me another player in the history of basketball with a spread like that.

[KungFuJoe]

Nah. People dog Kobe because he does still have it. He could STILL be good. If he would adjust. Take better shots and stop forcing everything. Quit complaining to the refs and start playing D.

But Kobe is too dumb and stubborn. He thinks he's still in his prime whenever he steps on the court except now he feels he's got something to prove just like he did when he jacked up those three air balls in the PO his rookie year against Utah.

[ArbitraryWater]

ImKobe back to defending his messiah :lol

Gotta love the timely appearances of this dude ImSoRad, also.. taking that shit up his ass

[SexSymbol]

AND it's not like they haven't beaten good teams this season while plying with Kobe
They beat Toronto, Atlanta, Houston, SAS while Kobe was playing

[edrick]

It's no coincidence that the Lakers have been better with Kobe on the bench this season, it's not just about last night. He's old as ****, coming off of an injury, and attempting about twice as many shots per game as he should be.

[ArbitraryWater]

AND it's not like they haven't beaten good teams this season while plying with Kobe
They beat Toronto, Atlanta, Houston, SAS while Kobe was playing

Small error:

They won the Houston and San Antonio games DESPITE of Kobe.

@ Houston: 10-28 35%, 3 TO's
@ San Antonio: 7-22 32%, 5 TO's + GOAT choking performance

1:43 Kobe Bryant shooting foul (Manu Ginobili draws the foul) 101-92
1:31 Kobe Bryant lost ball turnover (Cory Joseph steals) 101-94
1:10 Kobe Bryant bad pass 101-97
0:52 Kobe Bryant bad pass (Cory Joseph steals) 101-97
0:23 Kobe Bryant misses 16-foot jumper 101-100
0:02 Kobe Bryant misses two point shot 101-101

#GenerousBe GAVE the Spurs the overtime session... In which Swaggy P GOATED some more and pulled home the W.

[SexSymbol]

Small error:

They won the Houston and San Antonio games DESPITE of Kobe.

@ Houston: 10-28 35%, 3 TO's
@ San Antonio: 7-22 32%, 5 TO's + GOAT choking performance

1:43 Kobe Bryant shooting foul (Manu Ginobili draws the foul) 101-92
1:31 Kobe Bryant lost ball turnover (Cory Joseph steals) 101-94
1:10 Kobe Bryant bad pass 101-97
0:52 Kobe Bryant bad pass (Cory Joseph steals) 101-97
0:23 Kobe Bryant misses 16-foot jumper 101-100
0:02 Kobe Bryant misses two point shot 101-101

#GenerousBe GAVE the Spurs the overtime session... In which Swaggy P GOATED some more and pulled home the W.
He played good defense in both games, especially in the houston one.
It's not all about offense man, watch some games for ****s sakes before talking about them.

[Fire Colangelo]

He played good defense in both games, especially in the houston one.
It's not all about offense man, watch some games for ****s sakes before talking about them.

:oldlol:

You know it's sad when Kobe's stans start using Kobe's "defense" as arguments.

[SexSymbol]

:oldlol:

You know it's sad when Kobe's stans start using Kobe's "defense" as arguments.
It's not, Kobe has actually put some effort into defense in quite a few games this year.

[Mr Feeny]

It's not, Kobe has actually put some effort into defense in quite a few games this year.

:oldlol: this is just pathetic :oldlol:

[AirFederer]

Love the fact that Laz and Deuce are both stanning Kobe :lol

[SexSymbol]

:oldlol: this is just pathetic :oldlol:
Why?
I'm not saying Kobe's been great this year, but he's way underrated as he is now.
He actually has played quite a bit of good defense this year, even picking up guys full court. You'd know that, if you put the effort into watching the games of a player that you take so much time of your day to post about

[shadow]

Nah. People dog Kobe because he does still have it. He could STILL be good. If he would adjust. Take better shots and stop forcing everything. Quit complaining to the refs and start playing D.

But Kobe is too dumb and stubborn. He thinks he's still in his prime whenever he steps on the court except now he feels he's got something to prove just like he did when he jacked up those three air balls in the PO his rookie year against Utah.

And that is the crux of it. It is very frustrating to watch as a Kobe fan, and more so as a Laker fan because he's a liability on most nights imo. For a guy with such a high Basketball IQ, it rarely shows up during his play on court.

[Mr Feeny]

Why?
I'm not saying Kobe's been great this year, but he's way underrated as he is now.
He actually has played quite a bit of good defense this year, even picking up guys full court. You'd know that, if you put the effort into watching the games of a player that you take so much time of your day to post aboutThis post really worries me. Nobody who has fully working eyes and has been the watching the Lakers this season can confuse what Kobe has been doing into anything RESMEMBLING defense this year. In fact, as soon as he leaves the line -up, the team's defense improves! He's been not just bad on defense, but downright abysmal. It's sad to watch, and sad that Kobe stans delusion is so high right now that they think they're watching great defense:facepalm
:lol

[SexSymbol]

This post really worries me. Nobody who has fully working eyes and has been the watching the Lakers this season can confuse what Kobe has been doing into anything RESMEMBLING defense this year. In fact, as soon as he leaves the line -up, the team's defense improves! He's been not just bad on defense, but downright abysmal. It's sad to watch, and sad that Kobe stans delusion is so high right now that they think they're watching great defense:facepalm
:lol
It's not that he's a bad defender, or as you say he doesn't resemble anything close to defense, it's just that Ellington and Johnson are better defenders, which is nothing to be ashamed of at this point in his career. So to say that he isn't better defensively than two young guys is nothing illogical, nor diminishing of his greatness

[Rooster]

Nah. People dog Kobe because he does still have it. He could STILL be good. If he would adjust. Take better shots and stop forcing everything. Quit complaining to the refs and start playing D.

But Kobe is too dumb and stubborn. He thinks he's still in his prime whenever he steps on the court except now he feels he's got something to prove just like he did when he jacked up those three air balls in the PO his rookie year against Utah.


This. Kobe need to realized that whatever he's doing the past few games and most of the season, it's just not working. It does not mean that he has to lose that confidence, it's just that it's unncessary to take long constested 2s and jack up 3s early in the shot clock. Post up more and get closer to the basket, he still has that ability and the footwork.

[truhooper]

Lakers best game of the entire season is the one game Kobe doesn't play.. im sorry that's no coincidence..

NEWSFLASH its 2015 BRO and KOBE IS ABSOLUTE TRASH THIS SEASON.. the quicker you come to accept that the less sleepless nights you will have

#FACTS :cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

It's not that he's a bad defender, or as you say he doesn't resemble anything close to defense, it's just that Ellington and Johnson are better defenders, which is nothing to be ashamed of at this point in his career. So to say that he isn't better defensively than two young guys is nothing illogical, nor diminishing of his greatnessWhat greatness, exactly? He can't guard a lamp. He's being obliterated on defense at every turn. There's a reason he's ranked 99th out of 99 shooting guards in the NBA, net. While he's awful on offense, his defense is NON-EXISTANT.

:applause:

[SexSymbol]

What greatness, exactly? He can't guard a lamp. He's being obliterated on defense at every turn. There's a reason he's ranked 99th out of 99 shooting guards in the NBA, net. While he's awful on offense, his defense is NON-EXISTANT.

:applause:
I am aware of how he's presented statistically, just watch the games, please, you're embarassing yourself

[ImKobe]

What greatness, exactly? He can't guard a lamp. He's being obliterated on defense at every turn. There's a reason he's ranked 99th out of 99 shooting guards in the NBA, net. While he's awful on offense, his defense is NON-EXISTANT.

:applause:

That is false breh. If you actually watch the games, he isn't that bad defensively in terms of individual play. It's the team that collectively sucks. Of course he's going to be at the bottom when the team has the worst D in the league. He hasn't been lit up too many times and for the most part, he stays on his man and usually isn't the reason why the defense gets exposed.

Problem is that the Lakers SUCK at guarding the P&R and opposing teams always seem to light em up from 3, even when they contest their shots. It's just that they don't have a fear factor to them. No one is scared to score against the Lakers. Guys WANT to destroy them. It is what it is.

And the +/- stat doesn't tell you jack shit about Kobe as a player. It just shows how much better our bench is against the opposing team's benches compared to the starting unit.


And Lakers won @ Houston & @ San Antonio with Kobe leading the way, so yeah...and how bout the road game against Memphis, where the bench puts us in the hole early in the 4th then Kobe gets subbed in and brings us back, only for Lin to pass it to Hill, who bricks a long 2?

But it's all on Kobe, he's the worst SG in the league. Let's leave rational discussion out of it and let the hatred blind us.


Dude obviously is not his old self, but let's not act like he can't play or that his play is the reason the Lakers are not a Playoff team. They suck ass collectively, one fluke game against a top team isn't going to change that.

[red1]

real talk I wouldn't want him on my team for the vet min, let alone at 48/2 years. serious question OP, are you retarded?

[Mr Feeny]

I am aware of how he's presented statistically, just watch the games, please, you're embarassing yourself

good argument. How can anybody counter such well constructed points?

[Mr Feeny]

That is false breh. If you actually watch the games, he isn't that bad defensively in terms of individual play. It's the team that collectively sucks. Of course he's going to be at the bottom when the team has the worst D in the league. He hasn't been lit up too many times and for the most part, he stays on his man and usually isn't the reason why the defense gets exposed.

Problem is that the Lakers SUCK at guarding the P&R and opposing teams always seem to light em up from 3, even when they contest their shots. It's just that they don't have a fear factor to them. No one is scared to score against the Lakers. Guys WANT to destroy them. It is what it is.

And the +/- stat doesn't tell you jack shit about Kobe as a player. It just shows how much better our bench is against the opposing team's benches compared to the starting unit.


And Lakers won @ Houston & @ San Antonio with Kobe leading the way, so yeah...and how bout the road game against Memphis, where the bench puts us in the hole early in the 4th then Kobe gets subbed in and brings us back, only for Lin to pass it to Hill, who bricks a long 2?

But it's all on Kobe, he's the worst SG in the league. Let's leave rational discussion out of it and let the hatred blind us.


Dude obviously is not his old self, but let's not act like he can't play or that his play is the reason the Lakers are not a Playoff team. They suck ass collectively, one fluke game against a top team isn't going to change that.I have watched the games, as have the majority of the people on this board, all of whom consider him an impediment to success at this point. We could be all wrong ofcourse, and a Kobe stan with a proclivity to troll Lebron blindly and whimsically might he right. Unlikely though. I think it's the former:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

real talk I wouldn't want him on my team for the vet min, let alone at 48/2 years. serious question OP, are you retarded?

Probably
OP and ImKobe and SexSymbol need to take notes:applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

He played good defense in both games, especially in the houston one.
It's not all about offense man, watch some games for ****s sakes before talking about them.

:roll: :roll:

SexSymbols arguments are the worst... "watch games pls, you're uneducated"........... eventually says nothing, now reverts to DEFENSE, as Kobe's argument..... PURE COMEDY.

At least ImKobe writes off his paragraphs.

[Mr Feeny]

:roll: :roll:

SexSymbols arguments are the worst... "watch games pls, you're uneducated"........... eventually says nothing, now reverts to DEFENSE, as Kobe's argument..... PURE COMEDY.

At least ImKobe writes off his paragraphs.I know!!! When a Kobe stans bring defense into an argument when discussing 2015 Kobe, you know that you've heard it all:roll: