Tiny Archibald in 1972-1973

[dankok8]

This man Nate "Tiny" Archibald averaged 34.0 ppg and 11.4 apg for the entire season!! He's the only player other than Oscar Robertson in 1968 to lead the league in both scoring and assist average and the ONLY man to win both the scoring and assist titles (titles went by totals not average in Oscar's time...). Mind you Nate did this in a much slower paced league than Oscar well in line with the league in the 80's and not much faster than today's league.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff255/dankok8/TinyArchibard1972-1973.png

Against other great guards... a lot of incomplete data for FG%.

4 games vs. Lenny Wilkens (Cleveland)

38.0 ppg and 8.5 apg

4 games vs. Jo Jo White (Boston)

34.0 ppg and 13.0 apg

7 games vs. Jerry Sloan and Norm Van Lier (Chicago)

35.1 ppg and 10.9 apg on 50.3%

5 games vs. Dave Bing (Detroit)

28.0 ppg and 11.0 apg (played very limited minutes in one game... 5 points and 2 assists)

6 games vs. Jerry West (LA)

24.3 ppg and 7.0 apg (played very limited minutes in one game... 8 points and 6 assists)

7 games vs. Oscar Robertson (Milwaukee)

29.7 ppg and 11.6 apg

4 games vs. Walt Frazier (New York)

30.5 ppg and 9.0 apg

[LAZERUSS]

This man Nate "Tiny" Archibald averaged 34.0 ppg and 11.4 apg for the entire season!! He's the only player other than Oscar Robertson in 1968 to lead the league in both scoring and assist average and the ONLY man to win both the scoring and assist titles (titles went by totals not average in Oscar's time...). Mind you Nate did this in a much slower paced league than Oscar well in line with the league in the 80's and not much faster than today's league.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff255/dankok8/TinyArchibard1972-1973.png

Against other great guards... a lot of incomplete data for FG%.

4 games vs. Lenny Wilkens (Cleveland)




38.0 ppg and 8.5 apg

4 games vs. Jo Jo White (Boston)

34.0 ppg and 13.0 apg

7 games vs. Jerry Sloan and Norm Van Lier (Chicago)

35.1 ppg and 10.9 apg on 50.3%

5 games vs. Dave Bing (Detroit)

28.0 ppg and 11.0 apg (played very limited minutes in one game... 5 points and 2 assists)

6 games vs. Jerry West (LA)

24.3 ppg and 7.0 apg (played very limited minutes in one game... 8 points and 6 assists)

7 games vs. Oscar Robertson (Milwaukee)

29.7 ppg and 11.6 apg

4 games vs. Walt Frazier (New York)

30.5 ppg and 9.0 apg

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Nice break from the Lebron-Kobe topics.

An amazing season.

And welcome back.

[L.Kizzle]

This man Nate "Tiny" Archibald averaged 34.0 ppg and 11.4 apg for the entire season!! He's the only player other than Oscar Robertson in 1968 to lead the league in both scoring and assist average and the ONLY man to win both the scoring and assist titles (titles went by totals not average in Oscar's time...). Mind you Nate did this in a much slower paced league than Oscar well in line with the league in the 80's and not much faster than today's league.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff255/dankok8/TinyArchibard1972-1973.png

Against other great guards... a lot of incomplete data for FG%.

4 games vs. Lenny Wilkens (Cleveland)

38.0 ppg and 8.5 apg

4 games vs. Jo Jo White (Boston)

34.0 ppg and 13.0 apg

7 games vs. Jerry Sloan and Norm Van Lier (Chicago)

35.1 ppg and 10.9 apg on 50.3%

5 games vs. Dave Bing (Detroit)

28.0 ppg and 11.0 apg (played very limited minutes in one game... 5 points and 2 assists)

6 games vs. Jerry West (LA)

24.3 ppg and 7.0 apg (played very limited minutes in one game... 8 points and 6 assists)

7 games vs. Oscar Robertson (Milwaukee)

29.7 ppg and 11.6 apg

4 games vs. Walt Frazier (New York)

30.5 ppg and 9.0 apg
What about Hall of Famer Calvin Murphy, high scoring Phil Chanier of the Bullets, high Scoring Charlie Scott, ball wizard Pistol Pete, All Star Randy Smith of the Braves.

[dankok8]

What about Hall of Famer Calvin Murphy, high scoring Phil Chanier of the Bullets, high Scoring Charlie Scott, ball wizard Pistol Pete, All Star Randy Smith of the Braves.

Phil Chenier, Pistol Pete and Randy Smith were SG's and didn't match-up with Tiny as far as I know. Good post though. I'll definitely add Murphy and Scott.

4 games vs. Calvin Murphy (Houston)

43.3 ppg and 15.5 apg

6 games vs. Charlie Scott (Phoenix)

33.8 ppg and 11.0 apg on 43.6%

At his peak Tiny was a freaking force offensively. Honestly he gets very overlooked when the best PG's of all time are discussed.

[L.Kizzle]

Phil Chenier, Pistol Pete and Randy Smith were SG's and didn't match-up with Tiny as far as I know. Good post though. I'll definitely add Murphy and Scott.

4 games vs. Calvin Murphy (Houston)

43.3 ppg and 15.5 apg

6 games vs. Charlie Scott (Phoenix)

33.8 ppg and 11.0 apg on 43.6%

At his peak Tiny was a freaking force offensively. Honestly he gets very overlooked when the best PG's of all time are discussed.
Got damn Calvin, play some D. :lol

[La Frescobaldi]

Nobody could guard him. Nobody. Not guards, not forwards, not double teams... nobody. And the dude had almost no leap at all. If his sergeant was 30" I'd be freaking stunned. Did not matter.

Game after game Tiny was beating his man, beating double teams, beating the rotating forwards and going right around some of the greatest defensive centers to ever play this game - Jabbar, Reed, Lanier, Cowens and Chamberlain in the paint to score............................................. ......... literally at will.
He did it without jumping, guys.

The whole hoops world had a new superstar but that next season he got hurt bad and a year or two later tore his Achilles tendon.

He wasn't ever the same although on the Celtics with early Bird he smashed defenses real bad with his amazing court vision & added that ring to a lustrous resume.

[senelcoolidge]

Leading the league in scoring and assists is a very impressive feat. It's up there with some of Wilts records. I don't have Tiny's numbers in front of me, but did he have a short superstar peak?

[La Frescobaldi]

Leading the league in scoring and assists is a very impressive feat. It's up there with some of Wilts records. I don't have Tiny's numbers in front of me, but did he have a short superstar peak?

he was injured and missed most of the next season, and a couple years later he tore Achilles tendon.

[SOD 21]

And yet his team finished the regular season ten games below .500 with a PER rating of 25.2 and WS/48 of .186.

He definitely had an appropriate nickname of tiny considering that he was listed as only 150 lbs.

[SHAQisGOAT]

People like to talk about 'empty stats', well this is one of those cases (not trying to underrate Archibald though)...

Kings weren't winning much, team was basically his to run, almost every play he had the ball for the vast majority of time, was playing 46 mpg, offensively he was the whole show for them, getting much more shots and touches than anybody else - as he probably should, as he didn't have great teammates too.

Even Tiny himself, later on, said that he didn't appreciate that "situation", and it led to close to nothing.

With that said, not trying to pass what he did as an easy feat because it is not AT ALL, but let's also not make it more than it was...

Tiny was a big-time baller before serious injuries though; fast/quick as they come, terrific handles, great finisher, had a sweet jumper (before he lost his lift), knew how to create for others as well... All of that also played to his detriment after a tore achilles and a ruptured one, because he could turn into a ball-hog and shot-jacker while he couldn't just do the things he did before.

[dankok8]

^^ Tiny's team really wasn't so awful though and he had great impact...

36 wins, 11th best record in a 17-team league. Tiny took a bunch of scrubs so far that they had the best ORtg in the league. Problem is they were #1 in offense but last in defense. That was hardly his fault. He was a PG.

Besides Tiny surely knew how to win because in Boston he took his team to pretty great success and played an instrumental role in the 1981 title.

[L.Kizzle]

People like to talk about 'empty stats', well this is one of those cases (not trying to underrate Archibald though)...

Kings weren't winning much, team was basically his to run, almost every play he had the ball for the vast majority of time, was playing 46 mpg, offensively he was the whole show for them, getting much more shots and touches than anybody else - as he probably should, as he didn't have great teammates too.

Even Tiny himself, later on, said that he didn't appreciate that "situation", and it led to close to nothing.

With that said, not trying to pass what he did as an easy feat because it is not AT ALL, but let's also not make it more than it was...

Tiny was a big-time baller before serious injuries though; fast/quick as they come, terrific handles, great finisher, had a sweet jumper (before he lost his lift), knew how to create for others as well... All of that also played to his detriment after a tore achilles and a ruptured one, because he could turn into a ball-hog and shot-jacker while he couldn't just do the things he did before.
A lot of teams back then had name guys his team didn't.

Lakers.with West Wilt Goodrich
Knicks with Reed Frazier Earl DeBusschere Lucas
Boston with Hondo Cowens Jojo
Alcindor Oscar Bob
ect.

He was on a team with Jalen Roses dad not to mention a franchise that didn't have a home town. They played in I think two different cities.

[jongib369]

:applause:

[tomtucker]

Tiny Archibald

:biggums: .........bron played in the 70

[Marchesk]

[QUOTE=tomtucker]Tiny Archibald

:biggums: .........bron played in the 70

[3ball]

.
.................................................. .Spacing


In the picture below, weakside floor-spreaders (spacing) have drawn defenders away from the strongside.. If Noah doesn't leave #20 Mosgov and flood to the strongside, the strongside will only have 2 defenders on it.


http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png



Otoh, previous eras didn't have weakside floor-spreaders (spacing) drawing defenders away from the strongside, so the strongside was already flooded with all 5 defenders - there are already multiple defenders standing where today's defender would flood to:


https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0BKishrkuHZV0IDK/giphy.gif


Ultimately, spacing causes today's defenders to make extra rotations.. But without that spacing (previous eras), defenders are already in closer proximity and the rotations aren't necessary.

Spacing and defensive movement offset each other, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. ORtg has ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1998-2004.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).
.

[feyki]

35 points with %50 against Sloan . Amazing .