Better for gauging player length - Wingspan or Standing Reach?

[fpliii]

:confusedshrug:

[plowking]

Wingspan.

You could have low shoulders, but still be lanky as all hell.

[STATUTORY]

shorts off, tip to base

[Myth]

Well, standing reach would be better for blocks and wingspan would be better for steals. So when you say "better," what exactly are you trying to evaluate?

[DCL]

standing reach

[fpliii]

Well, standing reach would be better for blocks and wingspan would be better for steals. So when you say "better," what exactly are you trying to evaluate?
Putting together a dataset to try and cluster player types based on some physical attributes, some shooting tendencies.

Both the wingspan and standing reach databases out there are pretty incomplete, so I'd rather only have to try and track down numbers for one, but it seems pretty likely that I'll need both.

[CavaliersFTW]

Both are important. Most people will just settle for knowing a players wingspan though. Though that doesn't tell the whole story, as some players with short wingspans can have high-set shoulders helping their standing reach a bit, while some long wingspan players can have low shoulders which reduces their vertical reach.

Also, just like height, vertical reach can be artificially increased with the thickness of a players shoes. In my humble opinion all player measurements should be taken without equipment/shoes so that they can be assessed and compared as raw physical talents free of extra variables. It should be noted though, that draftexpress does not take measurements of players vertical reach without shoes. So if you want to know if players have an actual length advantage over another player, you should subtract both their shoe thickness as some players wear thicker shoes than others to the draft combine as mentioned to get an artificial edge (like Spencer Hawes wearing nearly 3" thick shoes to the combine).

[fpliii]

Both are important. Most people will just settle for knowing a players wingspan though. Though that doesn't tell the whole story, as some players with short wingspans can have high-set shoulders helping their standing reach a bit, while some long wingspan players can have low shoulders which reduces their vertical reach.

Also, just like height, vertical reach can be artificially increased with the thickness of a players shoes. In my humble opinion all player measurements should be taken without equipment/shoes so that they can be assessed and compared as raw physical talents free of extra variables. It should be noted though, that draftexpress does not take measurements of players vertical reach without shoes. So if you want to know if players have an actual length advantage over another player, you should subtract both their shoe thickness as some players wear thicker shoes than others to the draft combine as mentioned to get an artificial edge (like Spencer Hawes wearing nearly 3" thick shoes to the combine).
Didn't know it was measured in shoes, thanks. Pretty frustrating. So I guess I'd need to do:

corrected reach = standing reach - (height with shoes - height without shoes)

[La Frescobaldi]

Examine four guys in particular detail: Jerry West, and Scottie Pippen, and Shaquille O'Neal and Mark Eaton.

Then examine these: John Stockton, Gary Payton, Tony Allen, Walt Frazier.

And finally, these: John Havlicek, LeBron James, Bernard King , and Kawhi Leonard.

After your very careful study I believe you will find that you need both.

At least as important if not more than these measurements, is hand span.

[fpliii]

At least as important if not more than these measurements, is hand span.
True. Especially for finishing/rebounding/contesting shots I'd imagine.

[VengefulAngel]

Examine four guys in particular detail: Jerry West, and Scottie Pippen, and Shaquille O'Neal and Mark Eaton.

Then examine these: John Stockton, Gary Payton, Tony Allen, Walt Frazier.

And finally, these: John Havlicek, LeBron James, Bernard King , and Kawhi Leonard.

After your very careful study I believe you will find that you need both.

At least as important if not more than these measurements, is hand span.

Great post.

[Levity]

oh, the age old wingspan vs standing reach debate. to simplify this for all of you, i turn to my man, randy marsh

"The truth is, it doesn

[Pointguard]

Confidence/desire in using length is the biggest factor in gauging it. Ben Wallace wasn't tall at all so he had to believe he was a shot blocker before he became one. Most players who are 7 feet already assume that is their job. Alonzo Mourning probably had neither - ok long arms- but believed he was the best shot blocker. Last year the Bucks had like four guys with freakish reach, 7 footer reach, but they see themselves in different roles and have confidence in different aspects of the game.

I'm pretty sure Durant is longer than either Wallace or Mourning but doesn't see himself that way. Giannis uses his length totally different than Durant but uses it very effectively. Giannis intentionally takes giant steps on layups, Disciplines himself not to jump early, and makes players feel his height and arm length in nontraditional ways on both offense and defense. Having springs plays a big role as well. Jumping quickly - Wallace/Mourning/Hakeem can play a big role as well.

[CavaliersFTW]

Confidence/desire in using length is the biggest factor in gauging it. Ben Wallace wasn't tall at all so he had to believe he was a shot blocker before he became one. Most players who are 7 feet already assume that is their job. Alonzo Mourning probably had neither - ok long arms- but believed he was the best shot blocker. Last year the Bucks had like four guys with freakish reach, 7 footer reach, but they see themselves in different roles and have confidence in different aspects of the game.

I'm pretty sure Durant is longer than either Wallace or Mourning but doesn't see himself that way. Giannis uses his length totally different than Durant but uses it very effectively. Giannis intentionally takes giant steps on layups, Disciplines himself not to jump early, and makes players feel his height and arm length in nontraditional ways on both offense and defense. Having springs plays a big role as well. Jumping quickly - Wallace/Mourning/Hakeem can play a big role as well.
Mourning had a 7-6.5" armspan... Ben Wallace's was unknown but was also probably phenomenally long for his height. I disagree that you just "believe", you don't simply will yourself into blocking shots, you need the tools. It might be important to desire to be a shot blocker in order to apply effort, kind of like rebounding, but I actually think for shotblocking the tools and other variables come first by a long shot. Durant for example, is not longer than Mourning. And he doesn't play in the middle. Where you position yourself on defense is also key to aiding your shot blocking ability. Durant isn't inside trying to protect the paint he's instead trying to stay in front of forwards and guards with his feet. You need good reflexes and long arms to be a prolific shotblocker and it helps to be positioned in the paint protecting the rim. I'm not aware of any prolific shotblockers that didn't have those tools of great reflexes and length.

[La Frescobaldi]

True. Especially for finishing/rebounding/contesting shots I'd imagine.
Not just those things but every action in basketball.

[dunksby]

If you want to go with one for your DB you should logically choose wingspan since most other databases use it.

[Pointguard]

Mourning had a 7-6.5" armspan... Ben Wallace's was unknown but was also probably phenomenally long for his height. I disagree that you just "believe", you don't simply will yourself into blocking shots, you need the tools.

What other tools are you talking about??? We are assuming they have either height or great reach by the OP. I never known any player that didn't want to play tall and played tall??? That's the problem of today's centers. When DH wants to use his lenght he plays taller. Hakeem said he always imagined himself to be a figure taller and bigger than himself, and was shocked to see Shaq, as it strongly resembled the person he imagined himself to be. If Yao believed and wanted to block shots, like Alonzo did, he would have lead the league in blocked shots. When KG wanted to block shots, he outblocked Tim Duncan in head to heads for their seven year primes.


It might be important to desire to be a shot blocker in order to apply effort, kind of like rebounding, but I actually think for shotblocking the tools and other variables come first by a long shot. Durant for example, is not longer than Mourning. And he doesn't play in the middle.

Name the tool??? Wade and Lebron were definitely equal to superior shot blocker to Durant and even better despite a considerable size difference. And yeah that's will and desire first and foremost. Timing plays a role too but playing the middle isn't the reason. Wade like Lebron, believe they can get the shot more than any other trait or quality.


Where you position yourself on defense is also key to aiding your shot blocking ability. Durant isn't inside trying to protect the paint he's instead trying to stay in front of forwards and guards with his feet. You need good reflexes and long arms to be a prolific shotblocker and it helps to be positioned in the paint protecting the rim. I'm not aware of any prolific shotblockers that didn't have those tools of great reflexes and length.
Length is a given here via the title, I just added a quality. Reflexes is important but Yao, Demarcs Cousins and Dirk have better reflexes/coordination than Eaton, Bol, Larry Sanders? No?

[ballup]

They both gauge length. One vertical and one horizontal.

If you want to see which is the more accurate in determining arm length, then the answer is neither or one based upon averages of complicated research. Standing reach has factors of legs and torso proportions while wingspan has a factor of shoulder width. You would have to average out different shoulder widths/torso lengths/leg lengths per height range and create a study based on that constant.

[HomieWeMajor]

Definitely wingspan and leg length
http://giant.gfycat.com/AjarOrderlyChinchilla.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

Definitely wingspan and leg length
http://giant.gfycat.com/AjarOrderlyChinchilla.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[HomieWeMajor]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
You want more ? I got you dawg
This player has verified measurements no inflation needed !
https://gfycat.com/DigitalAcrobaticAdmiralbutterfly
https://gfycat.com/IdleBigIndianglassfish

[Milbuck]

^:roll:

[Swaggin916]

Just depends on the situation but overall I'd say wingspan. Anthony Davis is a perfect example a good reach but not unreal, but an unreal wingspan. If you are really quick off your feet there is a point where reach doesn't matter as much... but wingspan is harder to compensate for.

[Done_And_Done]

That 2K shit lololol

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Is that Giannis and Manute's love child in 2K?

[Relinquish]

Definitely wingspan and leg length
http://giant.gfycat.com/AjarOrderlyChinchilla.gif

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

:yaohappy:

[Pointguard]

Definitely wingspan and leg length
http://giant.gfycat.com/AjarOrderlyChinchilla.gif
Now theres a guy that can touch the top of the backboard.

[CavaliersFTW]

Now theres a guy that can touch the top of the backboard.
standing reach, 13' :lol

[HomieWeMajor]

standing reach, 13' :lol
http://giant.gfycat.com/DefiniteBackGuineafowl.gif
Coast to coast with a bit of hangtime. Not like he needs it though.