Kobe fans accept Shaqs dominance.. Lebron fans act like Wade/Bosh did NOTHING

[unbreakable]

what gives? Wade outplays and out-alphas Lebron in the most recent matchup.. WITHOUT BOSH ... people still think Lebron carried the Heat?

In all honesty, it was the other way around.. Wade/Bosh had the mental and emotional fortitude to put up with Lebron and carry him through the tough times..

Lebron is great, but clearly not on the elite top 10 spectrum with Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq. :confusedshrug:

[Jlamb47]

I hate Lebron but he was the best player on the Heat in that 4 year stretch except for the 1st year. Id give that to Wade.

[HOoopCityJones]

I hate Lebron but he was the best player on the Heat in that 4 year stretch except for the 1st year. Id give that to Wade.

This.

[unbreakable]

I hate Lebron but he was the best player on the Heat in that 4 year stretch except for the 1st year. Id give that to Wade.

best doesnt mean "did everything and no one else did anything" :hammerhead:

[Eric Cartman]

Kyrie is the #1 option on the cavs same as with wade.

Let's see how long does it take lebron to make him like a scrub.

[The_Pharcyde]

Lebron was the best player on those teams all 4 years... Wade was great still in the 1st year, but once the injuries came piling on Lebron really took the team over

but what Wade lacked in skill compared to Lebron he made up for with Mental Fortitude.. a trait Lebron seemed to pick up after the terrible performance against the mavericks

so in the first year while Lebron was the better player, Wade was really the shoulder on that team He was an Finals MVP and someone who had exceptional mental toughness. They complimented each other so well in things on and off the court.

Lebron was that guy that really opened the floor for Wade again as the Focused primarily on him and Wade served as a support system for LBJ.

[The_Pharcyde]

Kyrie is the #1 option on the cavs same as with wade.

Let's see how long does it take lebron to make him like a scrub.

I have been to a good 70% of cavs home games this year. Kyrie is not the #1 option

[Roundball_Rock]

Shaq's impact was on a different level than Wade/Bosh's. It is impossible to ignore Shaq's contributions so the best any Kobe fan seeking to diminish Shaq's role can do is to present him as coequal to Kobe. The phenomenon of LeBron fans claiming Wade/Bosh did little has precedence, i.e. MJ fans doing the same thing with Pippen and Rodman/Grant and Kobe fans with Gasol and LA's dominant front line from 2008-2010.


Wade outplays and out-alphas Lebron in the most recent matchup.. WITHOUT BOSH ... people still think Lebron carried the Heat?

The facts certainly suggest that. They were 54-28 and reached the Finals last year. Replacing LeBron with a 2x all-star they are 14-18 and in serious danger of missing the playoffs. Moreover, during games Wade missed but LeBron and Bosh played the Heat did not skip a beat in the past few seasons. However, when LeBron was out the Heat posted an average record. LeBron is the difference between 54-58 wins and the Finals and 35-40 wins and 7th-9th in the East.

[beastee]

Replacing LeBron with a 2x all-star they are 14-18 and in serious danger of missing the playoffs.

Luol Deng is not on Lebron's level at all...so stop trying to use all-star selections as a replacement.

And Bosh has been out a ton, so of course their record is suffering. Add in McRob being out for season and losing Ray Allen, Mike Miller and Shane Battier has severely weakened their 3 and D threats. They still will make the playoffs and if both Wade and Bosh can be healthy, they should surprise in the 1st round.

[nba_55]

Luol Deng is not on Lebron's level at all...so stop trying to use all-star selections as a replacement.

And Bosh has been out a ton, so of course their record is suffering. Add in McRob being out for season and losing Ray Allen, Mike Miller and Shane Battier has severely weakened their 3 and D threats. They still will make the playoffs and if both Wade and Bosh can be healthy, they should surprise in the 1st round.

Mike Miller wasn't with Heat last year, Battier wasn't even in the rotation, they lost allen, but added other pieces like granger, williams, ... . Even with Bosh, they had barely a.5000 record.

[SavageMode]

Lebron owns Wade anyday. Wade just has a deeper team right now. While Lebron has Kevin Love as a Center.

Lebron carried that Heat team.

What's the Heat's record right now without Lebron?
-.500? Yeah that's right.


And Shaq carried the **** out of Kobe.

Just like every bigman has carried Kobe.

Kobe can't even carry his team to over .500

Next.

[Rooster]

Lebron owns Wade anyday. Wade just has a deeper team right now. While Lebron has Kevin Love as a Center.

Lebron carried that Heat team.

What's the Heat's record right now without Lebron?
-.500? Yeah that's right.


And Shaq carried the **** out of Kobe.

Just like every bigman has carried Kobe.

Kobe can't even carry his team to over .500

Next.

:facepalm :facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

Luol Deng is not on Lebron's level at all...so stop trying to use all-star selections as a replacement.

That is the point: LeBron's impact>>>that of a run-of-the-mill all-star. It also distinguishes Deng from others who "replaced" GOAT-caliber players. Other than Reggie Lewis with Bird I can't think of an all-star caliber player who stepped in to replace a GOAT-caliber player. In one case, Jordan, his "replacement" was a scrub who could not even make a NBA roster in the previous years. For Shaq it was Rony Seikley, a good player but never an all-star level player. For Magic it was Sedale Threatt, another average player. Riley pulled off a coup to get a solid SF to replace LeBron and then proceeded to improve the team's depth.

They are sub-.500 with Bosh. As to McRoberts being hurt, pretty much every team has had an injury to a rotation player after one-third of the season. The Heat roster in 2015>2014 Heat roster minus LeBron. This is a big reason (the other big reason was the Heat retaining 2 superstars) why some people predicted 50-55 wins and a shot at the ECF for the Heat prior to the season.

[riseagainst]

Lebron owns Wade anyday. Wade just has a deeper team right now. While Lebron has Kevin Love as a Center.

Lebron carried that Heat team.

What's the Heat's record right now without Lebron?
-.500? Yeah that's right.


And Shaq carried the **** out of Kobe.

Just like every bigman has carried Kobe.

Kobe can't even carry his team to over .500

Next.

:biggums:

[truhooper]

Shaq: 3 Finals MVP's :bowdown:
Kobe: 0 :roll:

Lebron: 2 Finals MVP's :bowdown:
Wade/Bosh: 0

[JT123]

Shaq's impact was on a different level than Wade/Bosh's. It is impossible to ignore Shaq's contributions so the best any Kobe fan seeking to diminish Shaq's role can do is to present him as coequal to Kobe. The phenomenon of LeBron fans claiming Wade/Bosh did little has precedence, i.e. MJ fans doing the same thing with Pippen and Rodman/Grant and Kobe fans with Gasol and LA's dominant front line from 2008-2010.



The facts certainly suggest that. They were 54-28 and reached the Finals last year. Replacing LeBron with a 2x all-star they are 14-18 and in serious danger of missing the playoffs. Moreover, during games Wade missed but LeBron and Bosh played the Heat did not skip a beat in the past few seasons. However, when LeBron was out the Heat posted an average record. LeBron is the difference between 54-58 wins and the Finals and 35-40 wins and 7th-9th in the East.
:applause: the GOAT poster is back.

[SouBeachTalents]

Maybe it's because in some of these playoff runs, Shaq was nearly equaling or even surpassing the production of Wade & Bosh COMBINED

2000 Shaq: 31 & 15
2013 Wade/Bosh: 27 & 12

2001 Shaq: 30 & 15
2014 Wade/Bosh: 33 & 10

[Dresta]

Lebron was the best player on those teams all 4 years... Wade was great still in the 1st year, but once the injuries came piling on Lebron really took the team over

but what Wade lacked in skill compared to Lebron he made up for with Mental Fortitude.. a trait Lebron seemed to pick up after the terrible performance against the mavericks

so in the first year while Lebron was the better player, Wade was really the shoulder on that team He was an Finals MVP and someone who had exceptional mental toughness. They complimented each other so well in things on and off the court.

Lebron was that guy that really opened the floor for Wade again as the Focused primarily on him and Wade served as a support system for LBJ.:roll:

What? Wade's skill level is clearly higher than Lebron's (as are many other NBA players'), and it's really showing this year. First bit of serious athletic decline for Lebron and he has quickly become downright ugly to watch. He just really isn't that skilled a player.

[Kvnzhangyay]

:roll:

What? Wade's skill level is clearly higher than Lebron's (as are many other NBA players'), and it's really showing this year. First bit of serious athletic decline for Lebron and he has quickly become downright ugly to watch. He just really isn't that skilled a player.

really showing this year is 25/5/8? Sure, he looks significantly worse, but he did also in 2010 in the beginning

[Bandito]

Shaq: 3 Finals MVP's :bowdown:
Kobe: 0 :roll:

Lebron: 3 Finals MVP's :bowdown:
Wade/Bosh: 0
What 3 final mvps? More like 3 finals losses. :roll:

[Kvnzhangyay]

What 3 final mvps? More like 3 finals losses. :roll:

nice changing the quote

[Dresta]

really showing this year is 25/5/8? Sure, he looks significantly worse, but he did also in 2010 in the beginning
Why are you posting his stats? What does that have to do with skill level? Another player he clearly isn't as skilled as is Manu Ginobili - this has nought to do with stats you ignoramus.

[Rose'sACL]

Why are you posting his stats? What does that have to do with skill level? Another player he clearly isn't as skilled as is Manu Ginobili - this has nought to do with stats you ignoramus.
using your skill to put up wins and great stats is also a skill.

[Kblaze8855]

Bosh started less than half the playoffs in 2012 and put up 14/8 when he did play. Next season....12/7. And while he did his 12/7 Wade did 16/5.

They didnt have 3 people playing at a star level after 2011. Wade was on point the first 2 years...Bosh the first one.

They were both stars in name only performance wise by the 2013 playoffs.

You cant compare them to a guy like Shaq who was just...unstoppable.

If they had 2011 or even 2012 Wade all 4 years....and Bosh didnt start doing Horace Grant numbers?

Thats a discussion to have.

But Wade just couldnt get right...and Bosh was nothing close to a star performance wise.

And now? I dont know. I was one of those predicting 50 wins for the Heat this year. Replacing Lebron with Deng shouldnt take that many wins from a team with 2 stars in the east...who only won 54 to begin with.

We have seen guys like Wilt, Jordan, and Kareem get replaced with 2-5 wins lost.

I assumed the Heat would do something like that. Win about as many games but not win in the playoffs.

Maybe they turn it around...or maybe they leaned on Lebron more than it appeared.

We all know no matter what else they went through that team isnt 14-18 right now with Lebron on it....

[Hey Yo]

I hate Lebron but he was the best player on the Heat in that 4 year stretch except for the 1st year. Id give that to Wade.
If that's the case, then why is James to blame for 2011 and not Wade? Wade was still the leader of the team but gets no blame for the 2011 Finals loss

James was the best player/leader in his first run with the Cavs so why did he get blamed for his teammates under performing in the postseason? Why was it LeBron's fault that the Cavs lost against Orlando in 09' yet Wade gets no blame for losing to the Mavs in 2011 as the leader and so called best player?

[SouBeachTalents]

If that's the case, then why is James to blame for 2011 and not Wade? Wade was still the leader of the team but gets no blame for the 2011 Finals loss

James was the best player/leader in his first run with the Cavs so why did he get blamed for his teammates under performing in the postseason? Why was it LeBron's fault that the Cavs lost against Orlando in 09' yet Wade gets no blame for losing to the Mavs in 2011 as the leader and so called best player?

You're not really that dense are you? LeBron's numbers in 2011

Regular season: 27, 8, 7 on 51%
First 3 rounds: 26, 9, 6 on 46%
In the Finals: 18 , 7, 7 on 48%

Dude had a NINE point drop off in the Finals, and was a ghost in the 4th quarter, and you really don't understand why he gets blamed for the 2011 Finals?

[JT123]

:roll:

What? Wade's skill level is clearly higher than Lebron's (as are many other NBA players'), and it's really showing this year. First bit of serious athletic decline for Lebron and he has quickly become downright ugly to watch. He just really isn't that skilled a player.
So Wade has more still than Lebron, yet his team is 4 games below .500 in an all time weak conference? :roll:

[Hey Yo]

You're not really that dense are you? LeBron's numbers in 2011

Regular season: 27, 8, 7 on 51%
First 3 rounds: 26, 9, 6 on 46%
In the Finals: 18 , 7, 7 on 48%

Dude had a NINE point drop off in the Finals, and was a ghost in the 4th quarter, and you really don't understand why he gets blamed for the 2011 Finals?
But Wade was still the leader at the time. There are those on here saying Wade was the better player that 2011 season.

So why not blame the leader and so called best player on the team like James was blamed for 2009 and 2010 while putting up good to great numbers???

It's a total contradiction to deem it that way, no?

[smoovegittar]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Dresta]

using your skill to put up wins and great stats is also a skill.
This post just doesn't make any sense. 'Putting up wins' is not a basketball skill. Lebron's team at the moment looks pretty garbage, and isn't winning that many games, despite having a top-10 player and one of the best young pgs in the league. Keep puttin up those wins doe :applause:

[Dresta]

But Wade was still the leader at the time. There are those on here saying Wade was the better player that 2011 season.

So why not blame the leader and so called best player on the team like James was blamed for 2009 and 2010 while putting up good to great numbers???

It's a total contradiction to deem it that way, no?
Why would you blame the leader when this was a team heavily dependent on 3 guys, and when one of them (who was also one of the best players in the world at the time) completely checked himself out of the series, on offense and defence.

Stop excusing such a disgraceful performance. It makes you look retarded.

[Rose'sACL]

This post just doesn't make any sense. 'Putting up wins' is not a basketball skill. Lebron's team at the moment looks pretty garbage, and isn't winning that many games, despite having a top-10 player and one of the best young pgs in the league. Keep puttin up those wins doe :applause:
why would you count this season at all. i am not counting it for wade because it is not even the all start break.
using your other skills to play a game in a way that your team win while you have great stats is a skill. being quick, having good handles, ability to control you body to finish 'and 1' plays, passing are all skills and lebron has just shown that he is better skill wise than wade.
fadeaways are not the only thing i count as skill like most of this forum.

[Rose'sACL]

Why would you blame the leader when this was a team heavily dependent on 3 guys, and when one of them (who was also one of the best players in the world at the time) completely checked himself out of the series, on offense and defence.

Stop excusing such a disgraceful performance. It makes you look retarded.
wade should not get blamed for 2011 but he and bosh should get blamed for 2013 and 2014 and you should be thankful to lebron for carrying them but you never are.
Bosh and wade should have carried lebron in 2011 finals when he was playing bad. he did it for them. wade also played well for very few minutes in 2011 ECF but bosh and lebron carries him in almost all of that series. he had worse numbers than lebron had in the finals.