Greg Anthony and Chris Webber both say Kareem is the Greatest Player of All-time

[Rosewood]

hmmm.....:coleman: #2 tho.....

[russwest0]

Michael Jordan is, by acclimation, the greatest basketball player of all time.

[Uncle Drew]

Kareem is just a name the Jordan haters love to throw out
People with different opinions = haters. Got it.

[JohnMax]

#7) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
(http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/rank.htm)
Strengths: The greatest and most unstoppable move in history. Can you think of a big man who you'd rather throw it to at the end of the game when your team is down one point? He also had longevity. At 38 years old, he was the best center in the league and won the finals MVP. As a young player, he looked like the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain. Very good defensive player. He could pass out of the double team and shot free throws better than Russell and Wilt (but don't confuse him with Bird).

Weaknesses: Kareem had to have a dominating point guard in order to succeed. In Milwaukee, he had Oscar Robertson. when Robertson retired, they went from the NBA finals to a losing record. The next year, Jabbar went to L.A, where he posted another losing record, playing with hall of fame guard Gail Goodrich. His Lakers underachieved, even though he played with Norm Nixon, until Magic Johnson joined the team and made them great. Jabbar was a major player on those teams, but without Magic, they aren't a contender. That is the biggest reason he is #7. If you draw names from a hat, what are the chances of getting Oscar or Magic? Anything less and Kareem's team will struggle. Furthermore, he was an underachieving rebounder when compared to guys like Wilt, Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond. Wilt led the league in rebounding at the age of 36. Kareem wasn't even the best on his own team at that age, averaging less than 8 per game.

[D-FENS]

#7) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
(http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/rank.htm)
Strengths: The greatest and most unstoppable move in history. Can you think of a big man who you'd rather throw it to at the end of the game when your team is down one point? He also had longevity. At 38 years old, he was the best center in the league and won the finals MVP. As a young player, he looked like the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain. Very good defensive player. He could pass out of the double team and shot free throws better than Russell and Wilt (but don't confuse him with Bird).

Weaknesses: Kareem had to have a dominating point guard in order to succeed. In Milwaukee, he had Oscar Robertson. when Robertson retired, they went from the NBA finals to a losing record. The next year, Jabbar went to L.A, where he posted another losing record, playing with hall of fame guard Gail Goodrich. His Lakers underachieved, even though he played with Norm Nixon, until Magic Johnson joined the team and made them great. Jabbar was a major player on those teams, but without Magic, they aren't a contender. That is the biggest reason he is #7. If you draw names from a hat, what are the chances of getting Oscar or Magic? Anything less and Kareem's team will struggle. Furthermore, he was an underachieving rebounder when compared to guys like Wilt, Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond. Wilt led the league in rebounding at the age of 36. Kareem wasn't even the best on his own team at that age, averaging less than 8 per game.


QFT

[AceManIII]

#7) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
(http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/rank.htm)
Strengths: The greatest and most unstoppable move in history. Can you think of a big man who you'd rather throw it to at the end of the game when your team is down one point? He also had longevity. At 38 years old, he was the best center in the league and won the finals MVP. As a young player, he looked like the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain. Very good defensive player. He could pass out of the double team and shot free throws better than Russell and Wilt (but don't confuse him with Bird).

Weaknesses: Kareem had to have a dominating point guard in order to succeed. In Milwaukee, he had Oscar Robertson. when Robertson retired, they went from the NBA finals to a losing record. The next year, Jabbar went to L.A, where he posted another losing record, playing with hall of fame guard Gail Goodrich. His Lakers underachieved, even though he played with Norm Nixon, until Magic Johnson joined the team and made them great. Jabbar was a major player on those teams, but without Magic, they aren't a contender. That is the biggest reason he is #7. If you draw names from a hat, what are the chances of getting Oscar or Magic? Anything less and Kareem's team will struggle. Furthermore, he was an underachieving rebounder when compared to guys like Wilt, Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond. Wilt led the league in rebounding at the age of 36. Kareem wasn't even the best on his own team at that age, averaging less than 8 per game.

Checked the website this came from and I'm surprised Moses Malone isn't in that guy's top 7

[Micku]

#7) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
(http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/rank.htm)
Strengths: The greatest and most unstoppable move in history. Can you think of a big man who you'd rather throw it to at the end of the game when your team is down one point? He also had longevity. At 38 years old, he was the best center in the league and won the finals MVP. As a young player, he looked like the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain. Very good defensive player. He could pass out of the double team and shot free throws better than Russell and Wilt (but don't confuse him with Bird).

Weaknesses: Kareem had to have a dominating point guard in order to succeed. In Milwaukee, he had Oscar Robertson. when Robertson retired, they went from the NBA finals to a losing record. The next year, Jabbar went to L.A, where he posted another losing record, playing with hall of fame guard Gail Goodrich. His Lakers underachieved, even though he played with Norm Nixon, until Magic Johnson joined the team and made them great. Jabbar was a major player on those teams, but without Magic, they aren't a contender. That is the biggest reason he is #7. If you draw names from a hat, what are the chances of getting Oscar or Magic? Anything less and Kareem's team will struggle. Furthermore, he was an underachieving rebounder when compared to guys like Wilt, Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond. Wilt led the league in rebounding at the age of 36. Kareem wasn't even the best on his own team at that age, averaging less than 8 per game.

That guy has interesting explanations to his listing. It was a good read to see the strength and weakness for every player that he ranked. I'm guessing this was written in the 90s or early 00s?

But anyway, I think he is wrong about Kareem and Magic there. Didn't they had a winning record with Magic out still? How many wins did the Lakers got without Magic in 1981? And by 1984, they were stacked compared to the rest of the competition. They were a contender without a doubt, but being a contender doesn't mean you'll go to the finals or win it all to me. You are just one of the few that could go to the finals.

The Lakers were a contender with Kareem in 1977 without Magic or Oscar, but they got swept by a Walton lead Blazers team.

Anyhow, to the main topic:

MJ doesn't have to be the GOAT to some ppl. That's fine because there are other candidates. I think his resume is pretty hard to not to put him in that tier tho. Dude had a near dream style NBA career with the Bulls.

[LAZERUSS]

That guy has interesting explanations to his listing. It was a good read to see the strength and weakness for every player that he ranked. I'm guessing this was written in the 90s or early 00s?

But anyway, I think he is wrong about Kareem and Magic there. Didn't they had a winning record with Magic out still? How many wins did the Lakers got without Magic in 1981? And by 1984, they were stacked compared to the rest of the competition. They were a contender without a doubt, but being a contender doesn't mean you'll go to the finals or win it all to me. You are just one of the few that could go to the finals.

The Lakers were a contender with Kareem in 1977 without Magic or Oscar, but they got swept by a Walton lead Blazers team.

Anyhow, to the main topic:

MJ doesn't have to be the GOAT to some ppl. That's fine because there are other candidates. I think his resume is pretty hard to not to put him in that tier tho. Dude had a near dream style NBA career with the Bulls.

Just for the record...yes, LA went 28-17 in games in which Magic missed in 80-81. BUT, they also went 2-0 that same season in games in which Kareem missed. Furthermore, the very next year, in 81-82, they went 6-0 in the games that Kareem missed.

In fact...how about this amazing stat? In their ten years together, in the games in which Magic missed in those 10 years (and including the post-season), LA went 61-40...or .604. Not bad. BUT, how did they do in the game's in which Kareem missed? 24-8...or .750. In fact, if you include the years after Kareem retired...Magic's teams won an eye-popping .743 of their games.

Of course, two of the best examples...the title-clinching game six of the '80 Finals, in which Magic hung a 42-15-7 game...while KAJ was watching from his couch. And then in the '89 Finals, when, without Magic, LA basically went 0-3. On a team that had come into the Finals with an 11-0 playoff record.

Magic had a FAR greater impact on those Laker teams than Kareem did.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

QFT
What? By that logic, Magic wasn't shit without Kareem, never winning a title again.

Kareem obviously has a case for GOAT. All team leader in points (nobody else is close), insane longevity, prime, Top 5 Peak, along w/ the most unstoppable move in NBA history.

Hell you could argue Kareem, Russell or Jordan as your GOAT, as they all have strong cases.

[Uncle Drew]

Just for the record...yes, LA went 28-17 in games in which Magic missed in 80-81. BUT, they also went 2-0 that same season in games in which Kareem missed. Furthermore, the very next year, in 81-82, they went 6-0 in the games that Kareem missed.

In fact...how about this amazing stat? In their ten years together, in the games in which Magic missed in those 10 years (and including the post-season), LA went 61-40...or .604. Not bad. BUT, how did they do in the game's in which Kareem missed? 24-8...or .750. In fact, if you include the years after Kareem retired...Magic's teams won an eye-popping .743 of their games.

Of course, two of the best examples...the title-clinching game six of the '80 Finals, in which Magic hung a 42-15-7 game...while KAJ was watching from his couch. And then in the '89 Finals, when, without Magic, LA basically went 0-3. On a team that had come into the Finals with an 11-0 playoff record.

Magic had a FAR greater impact on those Laker teams than Kareem did.
:roll:

If it wasn't for Kareem dominating that series in the five games he did play, Magic wouldn't even be in that position. Funny how you forget to mention this fact. Is it bias perhaps?

Kareem was the FMVP of that series, and it wasn't even close. This despite Magic's great performance at C. 40 points in G5 with basically no ankle, are you kidding me? The poster over Erving to seal the game?

Kareem > Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, I have always found it fascinating that KAJ is usually ranked ahead of Wilt in many of these "GOAT" lists (not all, of course), but how about this...

In his absolute prime, and in the first ten years of his career, Kareem went to exactly TWO Finals, and won ONE ring. Furthermore, his team's were swept in the WCF's in one playoff series, and were blown out with HCA in the first round of another. And, his STACKED rosters in both the '77-78 and '78-79 seasons, badly under-achieved, and were routed by good, but not great Seattle teams that had one borderline HOF player. Oh, and two of his team's failed to make the playoffs altogether.

And while he was winning five MVPs in the decade of the 70's, he was nowhere near as dominant as Chamberlain had been in the 60's...including his H2H's with the same centers that a prime Wilt just obliterated.

So, the reality was, a prime Chamberlain not only did much better in terms of overall team success, he was far more dominant in the process.

It wasn't until MAGIC arrived, that Kareem started winning rings. And you could make a case that Magic was the true leader of at least four of those five titles, and in the one in which KAJ had a case, '79-80, Magic led his team to a title-clinching win with a historic game, all while Kareem was watching from his couch.

In fact, the '87 Lakers were so dominant, even without KAJ on the floor, that they likely would have won a title without him. And then, in their ''88 title run, they won a title DESPITE a Kareem who was just awful in the playoffs, and even worse in the Finals.

KAJ's overall resume is certainly deserving of at least a possible "GOAT" level, but overall, he has some major holes in it.

[Uncle Drew]

BTW, I have always found it fascinating that KAJ is usually ranked ahead of Wilt in many of these "GOAT" lists
Surprise, surprise. :rolleyes:

[LAZERUSS]

Surprise, surprise. :rolleyes:

Too bad a prime Wilt didn't have a prime Magic for TEN seasons.

[Rooster]

:roll:

If it wasn't for Kareem dominating that series in the five games he did play, Magic wouldn't even be in that position. Funny how you forget to mention this fact. Is it bias perhaps?

Kareem was the FMVP of that series, and it wasn't even close. This despite Magic's great performance at C. 40 points in G5 with basically no ankle, are you kidding me? The poster over Erving to seal the game?

Kareem > Wilt.

But Magic did not play Center,:no: that was a myth. I agree Kareem should have been the Finals MVP in that series. He was just waiting for a supposedly game 7 but Magic had other plans.

Anyway if you include Kareem's college career, he has a case but otherwise it's Jordan.

[LAZERUSS]

:roll:

If it wasn't for Kareem dominating that series in the five games he did play, Magic wouldn't even be in that position. Funny how you forget to mention this fact. Is it bias perhaps?

Kareem was the FMVP of that series, and it wasn't even close. This despite Magic's great performance at C. 40 points in G5 with basically no ankle, are you kidding me? The poster over Erving to seal the game?

Kareem > Wilt.

Magic put up a 22-11-9-3 Finals, and on a team-leading .573 FG%, a team-leading .875 FT%, and a team-leading .635 TS%.

Furthermore, we will never know what kind of numbers Magic would have put up had Kareem missed the entire series, either.

So, yes, it WAS CLOSE. And whether it was debatable, Magic DID win the FMVP.

[Uncle Drew]

Magic put up a 22-11-9-3 Finals
That's cool. Kareem put up 33/14/3 along with 5 blocks in less minutes per game, while making clutch basket after clutch basket without an ankle.

[LAZERUSS]

That's cool. Kareem put up 33/14/3 along with 5 blocks in less minutes per game.

And didn't play a minute in their biggest game of the season, either.

In a game in which Magic scored 42 points, on 14-23 and 14-14 shooting, and with 15 rebounds (which was FIVE more than anyone else on the court), and seven assists.

[Uncle Drew]

And didn't play a minute in their biggest game of the season, either.
And still dominated the series. :lol


In a game in which Magic scored 42 points, on 14-23 and 14-14 shooting, and with 15 rebounds (which was FIVE more than anyone else on the court), and seven assists.And set an NBA Finals record for most turnovers.

[LAZERUSS]

And still dominated the series. :lol

So did MAGIC. Unquestionably.

FMVP.

[sportjames23]

Magic Johnson says MJ dat GOAT, OP. And he played with Kareem.

Seriously, we gonna have these threads every time someone MJ dominated says someone else is the GOAT?

[Uncle Drew]

So did MAGIC. Unquestionably.

FMVP.
Why are we having this discussion anyway.... The only reason you're repping Magic, is to talk down Kareem's legacy, because clearly, he shits on Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

Why are we having this discussion anyway.... The only reason you're repping Magic, is to talk down Kareem's legacy, because clearly, he shits on Wilt.

Nope...and nope.

I have almost always had Magic higher on my "all-time" lists.

Magic was the leader of Showtime, and was a much better "winner" in his ENTIRE career, ...and Wilt was a more dominant player than KAJ ever was. Plain-and-simple. Wilt was a better scorer, a better rebounder, a better passer, a better defender, and a better shot-blocker. True, Kareem was a better FT shooter, but even then, Wilt MADE 100 MORE FTs per season in their careers.

[bdreason]

I him #1 as well.

[tragicbronson]

Magic Johnson says MJ dat GOAT, OP. And he played with Kareem.

Seriously, we gonna have these threads every time someone MJ dominated says someone else is the GOAT?

Pippen said LeBron is better than MJ. I clearly don't agree with that but you can't use that as an argument, i think Jordan is the greatest player of all time, everything was made for building his image as the GOAT. There are some myths about him, heroics that weren't so, but people loved and love big stories and things like that and that were the perfect time for creating an idol, person that can't do no wrong, no internet, no forums etc but still, we have tapes, numbers and stats that don't lie, and when you take everything into account, he is and will be considered the best for some time.

[dunksby]

Kareem is number 1 for me too and big surprise another Kareem thread poisoned by jlauber the scum.

[navy]

Magic Johnson says MJ dat GOAT, OP. And he played with Kareem.

Seriously, we gonna have these threads every time someone MJ dominated says someone else is the GOAT?
Magic Johnson says a lot of things. :lol

[BasedTom]

John Salley says that Jordan is outside of his top 5, and that he isn't even the best player he's played with or against.

[navy]

Kareem is number 1 for me too and big surprise another Kareem thread poisoned by jlauber the scum.
Why? Longevity only to me.

[3ball]

look, these guys wouldn't have a job if they just said jordan was the GOAT every time.

there would be nothing to talk about or debate and they would come across as boring, jordan nut-huggers.

so they throw in a kareem, russell, magic, bird, or wilt, who all can make cases for GOAT.

but MJ didn't have to "make a case".. he's the standard that all other prospective "goats" are compared to.

[navy]

Considering he came after all those guys, that's not true in the slightest.

[3ball]

Considering he came after all those guys, that's not true in the slightest.
what's not true

[navy]

what's not true
Your last sentence.

[dunksby]

Why? Longevity only to me.
You mean longevity in winning and dominating? You are right, he started both from HS to college then to the NBA. He proved his worth after winning the title by sweeping the finals in his second year. Some people think greatest of all-time means the guy who had no mistakes or never lost or disappointed, they start attributing a mythical air to their favorite player and romanticize him which clouds judgment. You can find holes and disappointments on Kareem's resume too as well as other all-time greats, it just reminds us they are human beings too.

[bdreason]

The only guys who get compared to MJ in the modern era are Kobe and LeBron. Then you have Magic and Bird who played against MJ. Nobody compares Bigs like Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq to MJ.


The truth is, Basketball is a bigman's game, and MJ is fortunate he's even allowed in the conversation with the greatest bigmen of all-time.

[3ball]

look, these guys wouldn't have a job if they just said jordan was the GOAT every time.

there would be nothing to talk about or debate and they would come across as boring, jordan nut-huggers.

so they throw in a kareem, russell, magic, bird, or wilt, who all can make cases for GOAT.

but MJ didn't have to "make a case".. he's the standard that all other prospective "goats" are compared to.


what's not true about it?

the next GOAT doesn't have to supercede Magic, Wilt or Larry... they have to supercede Jordan... plain and simple.

[dunksby]

The only guys who get compared to MJ in the modern era are Kobe and LeBron. Then you have Magic and Bird who played against MJ. Nobody compares Bigs like Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan and Shaq to MJ.


The truth is, Basketball is a bigman's game, and MJ is fortunate he's even allowed in the conversation with the greatest bigmen of all-time.
You get it :applause:

[3ball]

The truth is, Basketball is a bigman's game


You are thinking of back when jordan played - nowadays, the game has been designed by the NBA to cater to perimeter players... There simply are zero dominant bigs in today's game.





The truth is, MJ is fortunate he's even allowed in the conversation with the greatest bigmen of all-time.


Jordan thoroughly dominated THE golden age of big men, so your post is severely misguided.

Look at the 90's with all those great big men... Who won all the rings?... Jordan, with Hakeem sandwiched in the middle when Jordan retired...and Duncan and Shaq also winning only AFTER Jordan retired.

[Kvnzhangyay]

look, these guys wouldn't have a job if they just said jordan was the GOAT every time.

there would be nothing to talk about or debate and they would come across as boring, jordan nut-huggers.

so they throw in a kareem, russell, magic, bird, or wilt, who all can make cases for GOAT.

but MJ didn't have to "make a case".. he's the standard that all other prospective "goats" are compared to.

out of those only kareem russel and wilt have a case for goat

[Roundball_Rock]

KAJ is the GOAT. What did Jordan do better as a player when comparing their prime versions?

Scoring: KAJ=MJ. P
Rebounding: KAJ>>>MJ.
Assists: KAJ=MJ (or maybe a slight edge to MJ).
Defensive dominance: KAJ>MJ.

Also look at longevity. KAJ is the gold standard in that area. KAJ had 17 elite seasons, 18 legitimate all-star seasons and 20 starter-caliber seasons. MJ played for only 14 1/5 seasons and was not elite for 2 of them. KAJ at age 38 was still the best center in the league and top 5 in MVP voting. MJ by that age was a run-of-the-mill all-star and that was with the advantage of taking 5 years off.

The areas where there is the biggest gap between the two are rebounding and defense, where KAJ has a large edge due to his position. A dominant C>a dominant SG all things being equal.

The case for MJ largely is based on team accomplishments. MJ had a team that could replace him with a D-Leaguer and still contend for the #1 seed the following year. Prime KAJ, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Shaq, and LeBron did not have teams of that caliber so it is unfair to use team success as the be all end all metric when one guy had such an advantage. That is like comparing a race car driver who drove for Ferrari with one who drove with an above average team and looking solely at finishes.

Don't get me wrong, MJ has a strong case for GOAT but I find it absurd that people act like MJ is on another tier than the other GOAT candidates. Russell, Wilt, KAJ and MJ are all essentially equally strong GOAT candidates--and Wilt and Russell need the least nuance. Their cases are clear: if you truly value team success above all then Russell should be your GOAT. If it is individual dominance, then it clearly is Wilt.

KAJ is the GOAT; Wilt is the BOAT; MJ is the greatest perimeter player in history and top 4 all-time.

[sdot_thadon]

Nothing wrong with it. He's one of the few with a claim to Goat. Mj being the current, popular choice (as well as my choice) doesn't exclude others from the debate.

[triangleoffense]

so some random talking head says it it's gotta be true right?

[riseagainst]

question. If prime CP3 replaced Magic from 80-91, do you think the Lakers would still make 9 finals and win 5 times?

[mehyaM24]

question. If prime CP3 replaced Magic from 80-91, do you think the Lakers would still make 9 finals and win 5 times?
considering cp3 has perennial choke jobs and meltdowns in the postseason (e.g. leading his team, with homecourt, to a 50 point blowout at home in game 7), i think its fair to say he'd win 1 if he were lucky.

magic was unique in that he isn't your prototypical pg. his peripheral vision stems from his height.

dude was basically a power forward with point guard skills. the greatest point guard skills.

[LAZERUSS]

KAJ is the GOAT. What did Jordan do better as a player when comparing their prime versions?

Scoring: KAJ=MJ. P
Rebounding: KAJ>>>MJ.
Assists: KAJ=MJ (or maybe a slight edge to MJ).
Defensive dominance: KAJ>MJ.

Also look at longevity. KAJ is the gold standard in that area. KAJ had 17 elite seasons, 18 legitimate all-star seasons and 20 starter-caliber seasons. MJ played for only 14 1/5 seasons and was not elite for 2 of them. KAJ at age 38 was still the best center in the league and top 5 in MVP voting. MJ by that age was a run-of-the-mill all-star and that was with the advantage of taking 5 years off.

The areas where there is the biggest gap between the two are rebounding and defense, where KAJ has a large edge due to his position. A dominant C>a dominant SG all things being equal.

The case for MJ largely is based on team accomplishments. MJ had a team that could replace him with a D-Leaguer and still contend for the #1 seed the following year. Prime KAJ, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Shaq, and LeBron did not have teams of that caliber so it is unfair to use team success as the be all end all metric when one guy had such an advantage. That is like comparing a race car driver who drove for Ferrari with one who drove with an above average team and looking solely at finishes.

Don't get me wrong, MJ has a strong case for GOAT but I find it absurd that people act like MJ is on another tier than the other GOAT candidates. Russell, Wilt, KAJ and MJ are all essentially equally strong GOAT candidates--and Wilt and Russell need the least nuance. Their cases are clear: if you truly value team success above all then Russell should be your GOAT. If it is individual dominance, then it clearly is Wilt.

KAJ is the GOAT; Wilt is the BOAT; MJ is the greatest perimeter player in history and top 4 all-time.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:cheers:

[riseagainst]

KAJ is the GOAT. What did Jordan do better as a player when comparing their prime versions?

Scoring: KAJ=MJ. P
Rebounding: KAJ>>>MJ.
Assists: KAJ=MJ (or maybe a slight edge to MJ).
Defensive dominance: KAJ>MJ.

Also look at longevity. KAJ is the gold standard in that area. KAJ had 17 elite seasons, 18 legitimate all-star seasons and 20 starter-caliber seasons. MJ played for only 14 1/5 seasons and was not elite for 2 of them. KAJ at age 38 was still the best center in the league and top 5 in MVP voting. MJ by that age was a run-of-the-mill all-star and that was with the advantage of taking 5 years off.

The areas where there is the biggest gap between the two are rebounding and defense, where KAJ has a large edge due to his position. A dominant C>a dominant SG all things being equal.

The case for MJ largely is based on team accomplishments. MJ had a team that could replace him with a D-Leaguer and still contend for the #1 seed the following year. Prime KAJ, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Shaq, and LeBron did not have teams of that caliber so it is unfair to use team success as the be all end all metric when one guy had such an advantage. That is like comparing a race car driver who drove for Ferrari with one who drove with an above average team and looking solely at finishes.

Don't get me wrong, MJ has a strong case for GOAT but I find it absurd that people act like MJ is on another tier than the other GOAT candidates. Russell, Wilt, KAJ and MJ are all essentially equally strong GOAT candidates--and Wilt and Russell need the least nuance. Their cases are clear: if you truly value team success above all then Russell should be your GOAT. If it is individual dominance, then it clearly is Wilt.

KAJ is the GOAT; Wilt is the BOAT; MJ is the greatest perimeter player in history and top 4 all-time.


LOL. this whole post is a joke.
Let's see what's wrong with this post point by point.

Scoring: KAJ=MJ.
MJ>>>KAJ in scoring and here is why. Even if you want to neglect career ppg, and only look at primes, here are their best 5 season stretches of ppg:
KAJ: 30.8, 55%FG
MJ: 33.9, 52%FG

if we look at playoffs, it's even more clear who the better scorer is:
i even took the time to include Kareem's best 2 playoff scoring runs to include 6 years to make his numbers look better:
KAJ: 30.5, 52%FG
MJ: 35, 51%FG

and all this doesn't even adjust for pace. If we adjust for pace it's even more ridiculous how much of a scorer MJ is:

per 100 possessions
regular season:
KAJ: 31 ppg
MJ: 43 ppg

playoffs:
KAJ: 34 ppg
MJ: 44 ppg

:bowdown:

MJ clearly takes the cake here.


Rebounding: KAJ>>>MJ.

obviously he is, he's a center and around the rim all the time. This shouldn't even be a comparison between wings and bigs.


Assists: KAJ=MJ (or maybe a slight edge to MJ).

you must be joking on this by claiming that this is even comparable.
:roll:

career ast%
regular season:
KAJ: 15
MJ: 25

playoffs:
KAJ: 13
MJ: 28

:roll:

Defensive dominance: KAJ>MJ.

apples and oranges. Can't compare the defensive impact of a center to that of a perimeter defender.

Only thing KAJ has on MJ is his longevity and college success.
Overall defensive impact, Kareem edges.
Overall offensive impact, MJ and it's not even close.
Overall impact on the court, MJ takes the cake.

[stalkerforlife]

Webber said Jimmy Butler is the best two way player in the world.

Both of those guys are life long losers and jealous of MJ.

[nba_55]

Webber said Jimmy Butler is the best two way player in the world.

Both of those guys are life long losers and jealous of MJ.

They made millions, you are posting about on a msg board acting like a wannabe stalker, if I were you, I wouldn't call them losers :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

They made millions, you are posting about on a msg board acting like a wannabe stalker, if I were you, I wouldn't call them losers :oldlol:

In the basketball sense, they are losers. Especially Webber.

[LAZERUSS]

LOL. this whole post is a joke.
Let's see what's wrong with this post point by point.

Scoring: KAJ=MJ.
MJ>>>KAJ in scoring and here is why. Even if you want to neglect career ppg, and only look at primes, here are their best 5 season stretches of ppg:
KAJ: 30.8, 55%FG
MJ: 33.9, 52%FG

if we look at playoffs, it's even more clear who the better scorer is:
i even took the time to include Kareem's best 2 playoff scoring runs to include 6 years to make his numbers look better:
KAJ: 30.5, 52%FG
MJ: 35, 51%FG

and all this doesn't even adjust for pace. If we adjust for pace it's even more ridiculous how much of a scorer MJ is:

per 100 possessions
regular season:
KAJ: 31 ppg
MJ: 43 ppg

playoffs:
KAJ: 34 ppg
MJ: 44 ppg

:bowdown:

MJ clearly takes the cake here.


Rebounding: KAJ>>>MJ.

obviously he is, he's a center and around the rim all the time. This shouldn't even be a comparison between wings and bigs.


Assists: KAJ=MJ (or maybe a slight edge to MJ).

you must be joking on this by claiming that this is even comparable.
:roll:

career ast%
regular season:
KAJ: 15
MJ: 25

playoffs:
KAJ: 13
MJ: 28

:roll:

Defensive dominance: KAJ>MJ.

apples and oranges. Can't compare the defensive impact of a center to that of a perimeter defender.

Only thing KAJ has on MJ is his longevity and college success.
Overall defensive impact, Kareem edges.
Overall offensive impact, MJ and it's not even close.
Overall impact on the court, MJ takes the cake.

Of course, KAJ wasn't a blatant shot-jacker, either. Any one that has studied Kareem's career KNOWS that he could have scored much more. The man was hanging 50 point games on Wilt, Walton, and Cowens. Hell, at nearly 40 years of age he was ROUTINELY hanging 40 point games on Hakeem (and dumping another on Ewing around the same time.)

Not only that, but KAJ routinely was putting up TS%'s 10+% over the league average, including the playoffs.

He may not have scored as much as as MJ, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have, either.

[jzek]

so that's 2 votes for KAJ vs 158,687,159,204,657,350 for MJ.