Isn't it weird how acupuncture tends to work better than doctors?

[Godzuki]

my dad just got hand shaking almost cured from acupuncture. he had it so bad he had a hard time writing. he saw numerous doctors who said they couldn't do anything. then a friend of the family recommends this acupuncture dude, and within a hour for like $150 he's like 90% cured.

it just got me thinking of that Qi shit with energy in the body and needles pinging it ...sounds so hard to buy into until you notice people regularly being cured from it. and noticing western medicine doctors sucking at stuff more and more these days who tend to just prescribe masses of pills.

i mean i've rarely heard someone who had acupuncture from someone good at it that it didn't work to some degree. and just the whole idea of something called Qi energy flowing thru the body and using that to cure issues is so far fetched but somehow a reality :coleman:

[El Kabong]

It's weird, it's the same with chiropractors, most doctors say it's all bullshit, but I had messed up stomach problems for weeks that was fixed by going to the chiro. Acupuncture is the same, doctors say it's all quackery, but my uncle used it a fair bit because he had a bad back and it helped him a ton.

[KyrieTheFuture]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

[sundizz]

Most of the stuff that is "wrong" with us is just a result of stuff our own body creates. Put your dad in some war type situation with guns and the safety of his team at hand and see if shaking is what would happen.

It's an odd truth that the pharmaceutical industry relies on - most of what we have could be cured by the dog whisperer.

Back pain, allergies, etc all are real...but are created by our own energies/central nervous system reactions. They are rarely external problems.

[oh the horror]

I know when my back was hurting a few sessions of this basically made me feel like new again. I tell everyone to use it

[highwhey]

I once had trouble m@sterbating, it got so bad that i could only get turned on by BBW p0rn. A couple visits to the chiropractor and i was once again able to jerk it to normal pornagraphy.

[oarabbus]

I once had trouble m@sterbating, it got so bad that i could only get turned on by BBW p0rn. A couple visits to the chiropractor and i was once again able to jerk it to normal pornagraphy.


:roll:

[Dresta]

I once had trouble m@sterbating, it got so bad that i could only get turned on by BBW p0rn. A couple visits to the chiropractor and i was once again able to jerk it to normal pornagraphy.
I once had a similar experience to this, so i know how you feel brotha.

[outbreak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

This. They've done numerous studies on it.

[hateraid]

Our modern medicine is relatively new compared to Tradition Chinese Medicine. It predates it by thousands of years. it's no wonder why these techniques are so effective. I've studied Ayurvedics medicines and the concept is fascinating. While our modern medicines treat the disease, ancient Chinese/Indian medicines teach the body to heal itself

[gigantes]

This. They've done numerous studies on it.
it's not all or nothing, brokowski. placebo can be part of the effect, but the principles of {however accupressure works} are pretty likely to also have an effect. things that hang on for this long and work pretty well for so many people tend to go beyond just placebo.

[oarabbus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo


There have been measured physiological effects. Of course "Qi" and all that stuff is pseudoscience, but acupuncture does cause measureable changes in the body. We are only beginning to learn whats going on.


The mechanism of action for acupuncture is still unclear.[226] Evidence suggests that acupuncture generates a sequence of events that include the release of endogenous opioid-like substances that modulate pain signals within the central nervous system.[226] However, a 2014 Nature Reviews Cancer article found that the key mouse studies that suggested acupuncture relieves pain via the local release of adenosine, which then triggered close-by A1 receptors "caused more tissue damage and inflammation relative to the size of the animal in mice than in humans, such studies unnecessarily muddled a finding that local inflammation can result in the local release of adenosine with analgesic effect."[72] The use of qi as an explanatory framework has been decreasing in China, even as it becomes more prominent during discussions of acupuncture in the United States.[29] Despite the scientific evidence against such mystical explanations, academic discussions of acupuncture still make reference to pseudoscientific concepts like qi and meridians, in practice making many scholarly efforts to integrate evidence for efficacy and discussions of the mechanism impossible.[29] Qi, yin, yang and meridians have no counterpart in modern studies of chemistry, biology, physics, or human physiology and to date scientists have been unable to find evidence that supports their existence.

[Nanners]

My mom was really into stuff like acupuncture and homeopathics when I was growing up, and in my experience its all total bullshit. If ancient chinese medicines are so great, why arent chinese people more healthy historically? In the 1960s, before western medicine had become widespread in china, the life expectancy for chinese people was just 43 years. Today the life expectancy in China has jumped to 75 years.

These types of medicines do seem work for a select few people who believe that it works, but as other posters noted thats probably just the placebo effect.

[oarabbus]

My mom was really into stuff like acupuncture and homeopathics when I was growing up, and in my experience its all total bullshit. If ancient chinese medicines are so great, why arent chinese people more healthy historically? In the 1960s, before western medicine had become widespread in china, the life expectancy for chinese people was just 43 years. Today the life expectancy in China has jumped to 75 years.

These types of medicines do seem work for a select few people who believe that it works, but as other posters noted thats probably just the placebo effect.


That's mostly because death rates have plummeted, not that people are living longer. There's no evidence that Western medicine is good as **** at preventing babies and mothers from dying in childbirth.

At the same time there is evidence (scientific evidence) that acupuncture and chiropracty do have benefits. Maybe not as great as practitioners claim, but there are measurable benefits.

[gigantes]

My mom was really into stuff like acupuncture and homeopathics when I was growing up, and in my experience its all total bullshit. If ancient chinese medicines are so great, why arent chinese people more healthy historically? In the 1960s, before western medicine had become widespread in china, the life expectancy for chinese people was just 43 years. Today the life expectancy in China has jumped to 75 years.

These types of medicines do seem work for a select few people who believe that it works, but as other posters noted thats probably just the placebo effect.
again, multiple things can factor. in china there's historically been a huge industry of quakery. the avg person likely didn't know how to sort out the snake oil salesman from something which had a long vetting process, like accupuncture. the culture itself probably ensured that it was more the well-to-do folks who had access to the better stuff. using straight lifespan averages is probably not the best way to take a read on that whole situation.


i'm a person that will pretty much try anything in life, but also be ready to dismiss anything in life. i've tried accupuncture a few times and it did me some good for various joint and back problems. i never experienced it as being 'cured'... more like it had a positive effect for a period of time, then needed to be repeated. not all that different from a prescription or a realignment, however...

[IamRAMBO24]

There have been measured physiological effects. Of course "Qi" and all that stuff is pseudoscience, but acupuncture does cause measureable changes in the body. We are only beginning to learn whats going on.

We have to re-define what we mean by pseudo-science. Calling Qi that makes it sound like it doesn't work, but it does work, and it has worked for a lot of people. The stuff that hasn't work are the ones we consider "science."

[IamRAMBO24]

I'm talking about health wise. Science is a miserable failure when it comes to food and medicine. More people are dying and getting sicker every year from this approach. Food shouldn't be messed with and health should be cured and not patched up for another high.

[Budadiiii]

I'm talking about health wise. Science is a miserable failure when it comes to food and medicine. More people are dying and getting sicker every year from this approach. Food shouldn't be messed with and health should be cured and not patched up for another high.
Weak fatties love their processed food and prescription medication. They love getting cancer and diabetes but will call people who question the conventional approach idiots and nutjobs.

Thank God I am not them. Stupid, fat, diseased sheep.

[Nanners]

At the same time there is evidence (scientific evidence) that acupuncture and chiropracty do have benefits. Maybe not as great as practitioners claim, but there are measurable benefits.

there is scientific evidence that placebo has measurable benefits.

[outbreak]

it's not all or nothing, brokowski. placebo can be part of the effect, but the principles of {however accupressure works} are pretty likely to also have an effect. things that hang on for this long and work pretty well for so many people tend to go beyond just placebo.

The placebo effect goes beyond people just thinking they are better, they've done studies with various illnesses/conditions and found a placebo effect can induce legitimate and measurable releases of chemicals by your body that can assist with conditions. Chronic pain was one that it was especially effective with.

[Fawker]

fake like herbal remedies. all pain and sickness should be approached by surgery or combative chemicals. thats all you need to know.

[masonanddixon]

Report back to this thread in a week and tell us how he feels.

[niko]

I'm talking about health wise. Science is a miserable failure when it comes to food and medicine. More people are dying and getting sicker every year from this approach. Food shouldn't be messed with and health should be cured and not patched up for another high.

You're making stuff up.

[gigantes]

The placebo effect goes beyond people just thinking they are better, they've done studies with various illnesses/conditions and found a placebo effect can induce legitimate and measurable releases of chemicals by your body that can assist with conditions. Chronic pain was one that it was especially effective with.
doesn't change what i said, but yes.