how many players have been argued as the GOAT

[kennethgriffin]

- George Mikan
- Bill Russell
- Wilt Chamberlain
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar
- Michael Jordan
- Kobe Bryant


i'm assuming theres are the 6 guys who have at one point in time been all argued by atleast 25% of the population to be the GOAT

some more so than others.

[SpecialQue]

- George Mikan
- Bill Russell
- Wilt Chamberlain
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar
- Michael Jordan


i'm assuming theres are the 6 guys who have at one point in time been all argued by atleast 25% of the population to be the GOAT

some more so than others.

Fixed.

[navy]

Bird and Magic?

[rlsmooth775]

- George Mikan
- Bill Russell
- Wilt Chamberlain
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar
- Michael Jordan
- Kobe Bryant


i'm assuming theres are the 6 guys who have at one point in time been all argued by atleast 25% of the population to be the GOAT

some more so than others.

Most would say he is the most overrated

[christian1923]

Magic Johnson

[DMAVS41]

Bird and Magic definitely were...


Kobe...:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Fixed.

you do realize what "argued" means right?

and atleast 25%?

during kobes high points hes gotten than much ( and some )

[rlsmooth775]

Oh and by the way Op Lebron has been better than Kobe for about 10 years now. How could he be argues as the goat

[kennethgriffin]

Bird and Magic?

they were never really argued as the goat. were always in the shadows of russell/wilt/kareem IMO

[kennethgriffin]

Oh and by the way Op Lebron has been better than Kobe for about 10 years now. How could he be in consideration for goat.

are you sure he hasnt been better than kobe since birth?

or did lebron only pass kobe by default during his decline in 2011.. which is more realistic

[SpecialQue]

you do realize what "argued" means right?

and atleast 25%?

during kobes high points hes gotten than much ( and some )

I have personally argued that Magic is the GOAT, but I'm not arrogant enough to put him on a list like that.

[SugarHill]

are you sure he hasnt been better than kobe since birth?

or did lebron only pass kobe by default during his decline in 2011.. which is more realistic
LeBron passed him since at least 09 :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

magics career lacked defensive accomplishments/ total years/ career totals/ scoring ability

he was a great playmaker but had more holes in his game/career than a slice of swiss cheese


birds career also lacked in totals/longevity. i think he was only top 10 in scoring like 3 or 4 seasons. short prime.

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron passed him since at least 09 :roll:


no. lebron didnt learn his first post move till 2012. nore did he have any footwork or midrange game.

he was stat padding and hogging a bunch with basic plays inside 2 feet. good for him. but kobe was at the peak of his game still

i'l give lebron 2011 and on.. a tie in 2013

[Straight_Ballin]

- Michael Jordan (GOAT)
- Wilt Chamberlain (can be argued... but not very convincingly)
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar (can be argued... but not very convincingly)

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't think Kobe was ever considered..

But I do know for a fact that Bird got ALOT of recognition around '86, '87..

[SugarHill]

no. lebron didnt learn his first post move till 2012. nore did he have any footwork or midrange game.

he was stat padding and hogging a bunch with basic plays inside 2 feet. good for him. but kobe was at the peak of his game still

i'l give lebron 2011 and on.. a tie in 2013

You're so damn delusional

[SpecialQue]

LeBron passed him since at least 09 :roll:

Lebron's career is filled with more asterisks than a French comic shop. No one in their right mind would consider that jackass GOAT.

[SugarHill]

Lebron's career is filled with more asterisks than a French comic shop. No one in their right mind would consider that jackass GOAT.
I don't think he is. I don't think he'll ever have a real case, either.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron's career is filled with more asterisks than a French comic shop. No one in their right mind would consider that jackass GOAT.

Dat reading comprehension.. He said Kobe could/should never be argued as GOAT and made that his reason.

[GrapeApe]

Lol at Kobe ever being argued as the GOAT. :oldlol:

Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Bird (as Arbitrary said, after the 3 straight MVP's his name was being thrown in the mix)

[Straight_Ballin]

lol Kobe and LeBron aren't in the conversation of being GOAT and they never will be unless it's some stan trying to make a silly argument which is easily dismissed.

[SpecialQue]

Dat reading comprehension.. He said Kobe could/should never be argued as GOAT and made that his reason.

It was...just an excuse to use that Asterix reference. :(

[CavaliersFTW]

Cousy, Baylor, and Robertson in their day were argued to be the best all time just as much as say, Kobe is today.

[ArbitraryWater]

It was...just an excuse to use that Asterix reference. :(

I did enjoy that part..

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Sick-Reference-Bro-Your-References-Are-Out-Of-Control-Johan-Hill-In-This-Is-The-End.gif

[SugarHill]

I did enjoy that part..

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Sick-Reference-Bro-Your-References-Are-Out-Of-Control-Johan-Hill-In-This-Is-The-End.gif
:roll:

[kennethgriffin]

Cousy, Baylor, and Robertson in their day were argued to be the best all time just as much as say, Kobe is today.


So the 40,000 nba fans out of a million or 2 million that argued for baylor, cousy, robertson is the same as the billions of chinese and hundreds of millions everywhere else around the world arguing for kobe

[Angel Face]

- George Mikan
- Bill Russell
- Wilt Chamberlain
- Kareem Abdul Jabbar
- Michael Jordan
- Kobe Bryant


i'm assuming theres are the 6 guys who have at one point in time been all argued by atleast 25% of the population to be the GOAT

some more so than others.

:coleman: Kobe wasn't close to being the GOAT, stop dreaming.

[kennethgriffin]

:coleman: Kobe wasn't close to being the GOAT, stop dreaming.
During his peak milestones he was above 25% of the population for minimal requirements to be known as "argued"

I never said he had a majority

[MJistheGOAT]

For me it

[SpecialQue]

[QUOTE=MJistheGOAT]For me it

[kennethgriffin]

The goat to me is whos career youd want surgically attached to your team going forward

Kareems career is undisputed goat

Even I dont believe kobe is the goat. But he has had millions argue in his favor at certain times

[MJistheGOAT]

But the bigger mystery is, who do you personally think is the GOAT? For the life of me I can't figure out who your choice is.

:roll:

Hard to notice ...

Seriously speaking, I have MJ as GOAT, but I accept the Wilt and KAJ arguments without too much problems.

[kennethgriffin]

I think the percentage of people who thought kobe was goat went up and down throughoit the years


2006 - 30%
2007 - 25%
2008 - 20%
2009 - 25%
2010 - 30%
2011 - 15%
2012 - 20%
2013 - 25%
2014 - right now 15%. When he passed mj in points -25%

It goes up and down. One day youre trash. The next day youre a triple double goat candidate

People are all about what you did lately

[SpecialQue]

:roll:

Hard to notice ...

Seriously speaking, I have MJ as GOAT, but I accept the Wilt and KAJ arguments without too much problems.

My pick's Kareem, but really, a convincing case can be made for any of those. I throw Magic into the mix because he's my favorite player and I think he had the greatest overall career since Russell.

[GrapeApe]

During his peak milestones he was above 25% of the population for minimal requirements to be known as "argued"

I never said he had a majority

What population? Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, and Bird have all been argued as GOAT by reputable, knowledgeable, and credible individuals. In terms of popularity, perhaps Kobe can be argued as number one, but popularity doesn't constitue him being legitimately in the GOAT discussion.

[MJistheGOAT]

My pick's Kareem, but really, a convincing case can be made for any of those. I throw Magic into the mix because he's my favorite player and I think he had the greatest overall career since Russell.

Outside of that GOAT trio, I consider Magic and Bird a little short case because of defense, longevity and stacked teams.

But same skilled/high IQ/crafty Bird with MJ athleticism = undisputed GOAT.

[GrapeApe]

Outside of that GOAT trio, I consider Magic and Bird a little short case because of defense, longevity and stacked teams.

But same skilled/high IQ/crafty Bird with MJ athleticism = undisputed GOAT.

Russell was certainly in the discussion at one point.

[Micku]

they were never really argued as the goat. were always in the shadows of russell/wilt/kareem IMO

Nah, they had GOAT talks. In the mid 80s, Bird was getting GOAT talks. That was the peak of his talks. Magic got GOAT talks in the late 80s, but not as much as Bird. Bird had a lot of hype.

MJ got GOAT talks in the late 80s too tho. They pretty much called him GOAT and one man army or something along those lines. But they bashed him for taking too many shots at times compared to Magic and Bird until he won and then it just spiked up from there.

Anyway, you still have ppl who think that Magic was the GOAT b-ball player. As well as Kareem, Russell, Wilt and MJ.

[plowking]

they were never really argued as the goat. were always in the shadows of russell/wilt/kareem IMO

Actually Bird was being called the GOAT while playing. Magic never got that praise, but Bird certainly did.

[MJistheGOAT]

Nah, they had GOAT talks. In the mid 80s, Bird was getting GOAT talks. That was the peak of his talks. Magic got GOAT talks in the late 80s.

MJ got GOAT talks in the late 80s too tho. They pretty much called him GOAT and one man army or something along those lines. But they bashed him for taking too many shots at times compared to Magic and Bird until he won and then it just spiked up from there.

Anyway, you still have ppl who think that Magic was the GOAT b-ball player. As well as Kareem, Russell, Wilt and MJ.

I consider Russell a not so strong case because of offense and epic stacked teams compared to competition, when Wilt arrived, he often rape Russell in individual duels, but lost because of weaker teams (and choking)

[PsychoBe]

Actually Bird was being called the GOAT while playing. Magic never got that praise, but Bird certainly did.

because he was white

[Micku]

I consider Russell a not so strong case because of offense and epic stacked teams compared to competition, when Wilt arrived, he often rape Russell in individual duels, but lost because of weaker teams (and choking)

It's ok if you don't think so. I'm just saying Russell had GOAT talks. You still find articles of ppl writing Russell as the GOAT player. Not nearly as many as MJ, but you still find them. This is all subjective.



because he was white


Yeah, it contributed to the hype. Before he came into the league, they called him the great white hope. Prime Bird had the skills to back it up tho. Dude was the best player in game for a bit there. Him and Magic basically revolutionize the game.

[MJistheGOAT]

It's ok if you don't think so. I'm just saying Russell had GOAT talks. You still find articles of ppl writing Russell as the GOAT player. Not nearly as many as MJ, but you still find them. This is all subjective.

Ok, i was only giving my opinion. When were the GOAT Russel talks (60s pre-Wilt??)

[bdreason]

Russell
Wilt
Kareem
MJ



I was young, but I don't remember people arguing that Bird or Magic were in the GOAT discussion over guys like Russell or Wilt... or Kareem, who was still playing and racking up titles. Since Kareem only MJ has really been argued as GOAT, and nobody since MJ has had a legit argument.

[Keno]

lebron was considered the goat in 09. everything he did after was just adding to his goat resume.

[MJistheGOAT]

lebron was considered the goat in 09. everything he did after was just adding to his goat resume.

MODS, this was a no troll discussion until this.

[Micku]

Russell
Wilt
Kareem
MJ



I was young, but I don't remember people arguing that Bird or Magic were in the GOAT discussion over guys like Russell or Wilt... or Kareem, who was still playing and racking up titles. Since Kareem only MJ has really been argued as GOAT, and nobody since MJ has had a legit argument.

Nah, they were. You have to watch some 80s games, documentaries or read some articles. Bird had mad hype for GOAT. Here is article from the latimes in 1986 for Bird as GOAT:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-05-25/sports/sp-7168_1_larry-bird

Some highlights of the article:



One week of attentive Bird watching allows enough time to get an ample sampling of the diverse abilities and peculiar habits that, in the view of many, have made Boston Celtic forward Larry Bird the NBA's best player, and arguably, the best ever.

...


"He's the best player ever," Milwaukee Coach Don Nelson says. "The Celtics play on a different level. Bird? Well, he's on his own level."

...

In a Sports Illustrated article earlier this season on Bird, Celtic President Red Auerbach said that "the best I've ever had in rising to the occasion were (Bob) Cousy, (John) Havlicek and (Bill) Russell, and Larry goes beyond them in that particular phase of the game."

...

Jones: "Larry has that Muhammad Ali kind of approach. He gets to you and your mind before the fight begins. By the time you step in the ring, you're already 20 points down. And he's able to back it up. That's part of the beauty of Larry Bird."


Dude had mad hype back in the day. If you watch some 80s game, you'll hear the commentators call Bird arguably the best player of all time. From 84-86, that was the peak of Bird GOAT talks. 87 too, but Magic and MJ stepped up their game. MJ had talks in 86 as the best individual player due to the his performance in 86 against the Celts, but it really stepped up in 88.

[Cold soul]

Wilt
MJ
Russell
Magic Johnson
Kareem

Those are the first five that come to mind.

[Micku]

Ok, i was only giving my opinion. When were the GOAT Russel talks (60s pre-Wilt??)

It was during Wilt I think? Pre Wilt they were saying how awesome Cousy was. He won MVP over Russell. Maybe it was one year before Wilt came that Russell started to get hype?

It was going back and forward with Wilt and Russell tho. Ppl seem to acknowledge that Wilt was the better individual player, but Russell helped out his team more, better team player and all.

I believe some coaches told Wilt to play a little more likre Russell towards the end of his career. I have to double check if it first year he won the championship or was it his time with the Lakers tho.

[guy]

Ummm, have they been argued? The media has argued plenty of players for GOAT, even if they were ridiculous. The following come to mind for me:

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron
Oscar (Not completely sure, but I'd bet that I have heard him argued)

That's 10 guys where I've heard people argued greatest career or greatest peak or greatest whatever. Never heard Hakeem or Duncan argued as GOAT.

[bizil]

For me personally, I think these guys at one point could have been considered the GOAT for various reasons:

Mikan
Russ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
MJ

I know that list is VERY SMALL, but given their accomplishments, redefining their position, saving the NBA, etc., I think all seven had that case to be made at a certain time. I don't mean really peak value (because with all due respect to Russ and Mikan, they wouldn't be in my top 10). But in terms of what they meant at that point in time, u could make that case. The Magic and Bird dynamic was the most interesting because I view them as a tie in terms of peak value. Then MJ jumping in that mix was EPIC! Russ was NEVER ON WILT's level even though they were contemporaries. Those rings are what propped up Russ, even though he was still a great player.

But the four perimeter guys who did EPIC SHIT but never were considered GOAT for whatever reason are Big O, Baylor, West, and Dr. J. All four were never really considered the GOAT, even though they did things that shaped what we see today on the perimeter. The only explanation I can think of is MJ combined the all around fundamental skillset of a Big O and West with the athletic ability of a Baylor or Dr. J.

Plus when u had Wilt back in the day doing GODLY shit, Im sure it affected West, Baylor, and Big O. Bird and Magic were the size of PF's but were as skilled any great perimeter player. And MJ combined the great fundamentals with freak athletic ability. So basically, Bird, Magic, and MJ WERE REALLY the first perimeter players to be considered GOAT. The elements they combined ACTUALLY started to supercede the giants in the paint in a sense.

[JohnFreeman]

Only "great" players in the league right now are Kobe and LBJ

[jlip]

Bird and Magic?


they were never really argued as the goat. were always in the shadows of russell/wilt/kareem IMO

Bird (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241244) and Magic (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7623446&postcount=114) have definitely been argued by many, including former players, coaches, and respected analysts as GOATs. ISH does not represent the world's opinions on basketball.

[stanlove1111]

Nah, they were. You have to watch some 80s games, documentaries or read some articles. Bird had mad hype for GOAT. Here is article from the latimes in 1986 for Bird as GOAT:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-05-25/sports/sp-7168_1_larry-bird

Some highlights of the article:



Dude had mad hype back in the day. If you watch some 80s game, you'll hear the commentators call Bird arguably the best player of all time. From 84-86, that was the peak of Bird GOAT talks. 87 too, but Magic and MJ stepped up their game. MJ had talks in 86 as the best individual player due to the his performance in 86 against the Celts, but it really stepped up in 88.


Exactly. I can't believe anyone is denying that Bird was at once time considered the greatest ever. I would say that by 86 or 87 Bird more then anyone in history was considered the greatest ever.

[stanlove1111]

Bird (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241244) and Magic (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7623446&postcount=114) have definitely been argued by many, including former players, coaches, and respected analysts as GOATs. ISH does not represent the world's opinions on basketball.


ISH is full of morons who make silly simplistic arguments for everything.. Examples..2/5 means you can't be greatest ever...FMVP is a real important award when considering how great a player someone is,, and so on and so on.

[20Four]

lebron was considered the goat in 09. everything he did after was just adding to his goat resume.
:roll: :roll: Just because LeBRONZE came to your McDonald's and bought you a lifetime supply of BIG MACS doesn't mean you gotta support him :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Cali Syndicate]

:roll: :roll: Just because LeBRONZE came to your McDonald's and bought you a lifetime supply of BIG MACS doesn't mean you gotta support him :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You're corny as fcuk.

[masonanddixon]

The only legit GOAT players are Kareem, Russell, Jordan, and West

[Odinn]

I don't think Mikan can be counted because at that time, being the best in the world at that point and being the best ever were almost the exact same things.

When the goat talks came along;
Russell
Chamberlain
Abdul-Jabbar
Bird
Johnson (not much tbh compared to other listed ones)
Jordan

These were the names. In Shaq's 3peat seasons, he got (well-deserved) the mde title. Kobe got the hype so he looked like a legitimate top5 candidate at one point by most of viewers. Duncan with exceptional longevity, getting these type of talks. But none of these 3 could have came close to these names on this matter.

Sure, we can compare peak Kareem vs. peak Hakeem. Or peak Bird vs. peak Duncan. There is no going wrong. But the goat title and the hype something a bit different.

[HurricaneKid]

no. lebron didnt learn his first post move till 2012. nore did he have any footwork or midrange game.

he was stat padding and hogging a bunch with basic plays inside 2 feet. good for him. but kobe was at the peak of his game still

i'l give lebron 2011 and on.. a tie in 2013

How on earth did you avoid my ignore list so long?

Remedied.

[K Xerxes]

I think the percentage of people who thought kobe was goat went up and down throughoit the years


2006 - 30%
2007 - 25%
2008 - 20%
2009 - 25%
2010 - 30%
2011 - 15%
2012 - 20%
2013 - 25%
2014 - right now 15%. When he passed mj in points -25%

It goes up and down. One day youre trash. The next day youre a triple double goat candidate

People are all about what you did lately

Nice source.

[I<3NBA]

Kobetards have a hard time even arguing that Kobe is anywhere near Jordan, how much more for GOAT?

:yaohappy:

[BuffaloBill]

I've seen some Hawks fans argue Paul Millsap

[Marchesk]

So Dr J never got GOAT treatment, say in the late 70s? Or wast that only ABA talk?

Bird was definitely getting GOAT treatment by the media in his prime, but it wasn't long before people recognized Jordan as a better individual player. It was only a matter of getting past the Pistons at that point.

It's funny how they sort of ignored Wilt, Russell and Kareem in that conversation. It was all about Magic and Bird and then Mike. As a kid I would have sworn Magic invented no look passing. Would have shit my pants if I knew the fast break and those fancy passes were pioneered by a 6'1 white dude in the 50s.

I can't recall Elgin Baylor being mentioned once in the 80s as an all-time great.

[Marchesk]

I've seen some Hawks fans argue Paul Millsap

That's not even troll worthy. I don't recall anyone ever saying that about Dominique when he led the league in scoring.