Detroit and Houston - Before & After Josh Smith

[Human Error]

Detroit 4-0
Houston 2-4

I have been saying that Houston needs to stay away from that low bball iq shot jacker but they did not care and this is what they got from being retarded.

[lilteapot]

Cancer.

[kunk75]

some cancers can be cured, his garbage shot cannot

[masonanddixon]

He's just another black stiff that has no business being in the league.

[Rake2204]

I'm very fascinated in how the Josh Smith transplant will work in Houston - just because he was so, so awful in Detroit. Taking a look, heading into tonight he was shooting .341% (14-41) for the Rockets, while also hitting just 16.7% of three pointers (1-6) and .455% of his free throws (5-11).

It's still very early in his tenure down south, but those numbers are all actually worse than the futility-chasing numbers he put up in Detroit across the board.

He's 4-11 with 4 turnovers so far tonight.

[UK2K]

In the last two weeks, Houston has added Beverley (injury), Brewer, Shved, Smith, Papanikolou (injury) to their rotation they've had all season.

I imagine the next few weeks will be somewhat rough.

[kunk75]

he was always a project at best. aside from the media's hate toward boogie, if you've never been an all star there's a good reason

[Smook A.]

He went from being an all-star level player a couple years back to an incurable cancer

[chocolatethunder]

In the last two weeks, Houston has added Beverley (injury), Brewer, Shved, Smith, Papanikolou (injury) to their rotation they've had all season.

I imagine the next few weeks will be somewhat rough.
Any rotation that has J Smoove in it will be rough.

[navy]

Thought he'd fit in. Guess not. Cancer.

[WallIn]

:roll:

Rockets got a mine.

[Rake2204]

Sidenote: The Pistons have won 4 in a row by double digits for the first time since 2007.

[Milbuck]

Morey :roll: :roll: :roll:

[imdaman99]

Pistons: thank you for embarrassing the Knicks at MSG. Not even kidding. Franchise will have to see how far low their rock bottom is... I don't think they have reached it yet. Once they lose to Philly :pimp:

[kunk75]

the knicks would lose to kentucky in 3 on 5 at this point. phil must be smoking mad weed to sit through this garbage

[embersyc]

Pistons are a completely different team now... They have set a franchise record for 3P% over the past 4 games.

[D-FENS]

I signed in to ISH to make this exact thread!

[SugarHill]

He's just another black stiff that has no business being in the league.
not even subtle anymore:roll:

[navy]

not even subtle anymore:roll:
Never was.

[masonanddixon]

not even subtle anymore:roll:

Well if its acceptable to refer to shitty white players as white stiffs it should be allowed for black players as well.

[zoom17]

What took the pistons so long to release him.

[Hotlantadude81]

He went from being an all-star level player a couple years back to an incurable cancer

Funny enough... Players always get even worse when they leave here:

Shareef
Dominque Wilkins
Christian Leattner
Glenn Robinson
Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Mike Bibby
Marvin Williams
Josh Childress (fell out of the league)
Theo Ratliff


Terry is the only one that went on to have a really good career after leaving here.

Crawford has done ok also I guess.

[chocolatethunder]

Funny enough... Players always get even worse when they leave here:

Shareef
Glenn Robinson
Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Mike Bibby
Marvin Williams
Josh Childress (fell out of the league)
Theo Ratliff


Terry is the only one that went on to have a really good career after leaving here.
Stacey Augmon belongs on that list. Somewhere near the top.

[tpols]

Really makes you realize how dumb Josh Smith is.. Perfect physical traits but worst impact ever. Or maybe he just doesn't care at all.

[el_locoteee]

I was against this trade, but now that is done the best place for Smith is from the bench.

Good that we have an awful game to see if that make the coach place Smith in the bench, and once T-Jones is back they need to play him as little as possible.

Too bad Morey promise him a starting job.

But a big question is Howard, since his return his is been playing lazy, he lost a lot of athleticism and have been playing slow, like he is coasting, and Houston D have disappear.

If he is not healthy sit him, because he is hurting the team, the problem we let go Black the other Back up center we have.

And don't get to exited for Detroit they been playing garbage teams as of late.

[Rake2204]

Stacey Augmon belongs on that list. Somewhere near the top.And Grant Long. Young Rake was so hyped when he found out his Pistons were picking up those two. Long wasn't too shabby in Detroit, but nothing like he was elsewhere. Augmon seemed to just fall off though. I was expecting many more dunks.


And don't get to exited for Detroit they been playing garbage teams as of late.True in the fact their opposition hasn't been super high class. But on the other hand, the Pistons had been struggling with teams of that caliber throughout the year (they lost to Philly, for one). The fact they've won each of their past four by 10 or more points speaks to a little bit of progression.

That said, I've already prepared for the counterstrike of "same ol' Pistons" posts a week from now. They hit San Antonio, Dallas, and Atlanta this week.

[chocolatethunder]

And Grant Long. Young Rake was so hyped when he found out his Pistons were picking up those two. Long wasn't too shabby in Detroit, but nothing like he was elsewhere. Augmon seemed to just fall off though. I was expecting many more dunks.

True in the fact their opposition hasn't been super high class. But on the other hand, the Pistons had been struggling with teams of that caliber throughout the year (they lost to Philly, for one). The fact they've won each of their past four by 10 or more points speaks to a little bit of progression.

That said, I've already prepared for the counterstrike of "same ol' Pistons" posts a week from now. They hit San Antonio, Dallas, and Atlanta this week.
And Ken Norman was the opposite. He was good until he played for Atlanta.

[ZMonkey11]

Funny enough... Players always get even worse when they leave her

Crawford has done ok also I guess.

Man won another sixth man of the year award.

Also, don't forget Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

[Collie]

Funny enough... Players always get even worse when they leave here:

Shareef
Dominque Wilkins
Christian Leattner
Glenn Robinson
Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Mike Bibby
Marvin Williams
Josh Childress (fell out of the league)
Theo Ratliff


Terry is the only one that went on to have a really good career after leaving here.

Crawford has done ok also I guess.

Steve Smith too.

[L.Kizzle]

Funny enough... Players always get even worse when they leave here:

Shareef
Dominque Wilkins
Christian Leattner
Glenn Robinson
Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Mike Bibby
Marvin Williams
Josh Childress (fell out of the league)
Theo Ratliff


Terry is the only one that went on to have a really good career after leaving here.

Crawford has done ok also I guess.
Kevi Willis
Mookie Blaylock
Lou Hudson

[ImKobe]

:roll:

Rockets got a mine.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[MiseryCityTexas]

Funny enough... Players always get even worse when they leave here:

Shareef
Dominque Wilkins
Christian Leattner
Glenn Robinson
Joe Johnson
Josh Smith
Mike Bibby
Marvin Williams
Josh Childress (fell out of the league)
Theo Ratliff


Terry is the only one that went on to have a really good career after leaving here.

Crawford has done ok also I guess.


I kinda miss Terry's Atlanta years. He lowkey had major hops in his early 20s. He used to catch alleys on the regular when he played for the Hawks.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Stacey Augmon belongs on that list. Somewhere near the top.


Not really Stacy Augmon had some solid role playing years on the Blazers. His numbers were down, but he used to fit a certain role on that team off the bench whenever Scottie Pippen and Bonzi Wells needed some rest.

[L.Kizzle]

I kinda miss Terry's Atlanta years. He lowkey had major hops in his early 20s. He used to catch alleys on the regular when he played for the Hawks.
Shareef and Jet years, just looked at their roster from the early 2000s. WOW.

Alan Henderson was a staple. Ira Newble, Dan Dickau. I remember Sheed Wallace played for them one game. When they got Antoine Walker they thought they had turned the corner.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Shareef and Jet years, just looked at their roster from the early 2000s. WOW.

Alan Henderson was a staple. Ira Newble, Dan Dickau. I remember Sheed Wallace played for them one game. When they got Antoine Walker they thought they had turned the corner.

I remember JR Rider was on that team for a couple of games, but the weed washed him up like Jay-Z said, and became a lazy bum. I remember even Kurt Angle shitted on his questionable work ethic on an episode of WWE Smackdown.:oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

I remember JR Rider was on that team for a couple of games, but the weed washed him up like Jay-Z said, and became a lazy bum. I remember even Kurt Angle shitted on his questionable work ethic on an episode of WWE Smackdown.:oldlol:
I remember comedian Alex Thomas said one day he was chilling with JR Rider (probably both getting high.) He was going through the TV stations and seen his team playing. I think he was with the Lakers at that time, lol.

Alex said "nigha, you know you got a game tonight?" :biggums:

[chocolatethunder]

Not really Stacy Augmon had some solid role playing years on the Blazers. His numbers were down, but he used to fit a certain role on that team off the bench whenever Scottie Pippen and Bonzi Wells needed some rest.
Well being one of "the guys" on a team to being a role player is falling off. The guy was averaging 14ppg in atlanta and never averaged even 6pts in portland. I don't know what games you were watching. One year he averaged 11 min a game. He was the 9th pick in the draft. He was much better in Atlanta than in portland.

[Demitri98]

If he would ever learn not to take any shots outside the paint, he'd be an OK player. but he won't

[themurph]

I was against this trade, but now that is done the best place for Smith is from the bench.

Good that we have an awful game to see if that make the coach place Smith in the bench, and once T-Jones is back they need to play him as little as possible.

Too bad Morey promise him a starting job.

But a big question is Howard, since his return his is been playing lazy, he lost a lot of athleticism and have been playing slow, like he is coasting, and Houston D have disappear.

If he is not healthy sit him, because he is hurting the team, the problem we let go Black the other Back up center we have.

And don't get to exited for Detroit they been playing garbage teams as of late.

Actually, the problem with Howard is his lack of touches. He only touched the ball what, 8 or 9 times? That's a coaching issue.

And as long as u guys have McHale on the bench, that's a problem that will persist if your only strategy consist of Harden having to be a basketball God every game....

[Hotlantadude81]

If he would ever learn not to take any shots outside the paint, he'd be an OK player. but he won't

He did... For ONE YEAR and he shot over 50% from the field.

[L.Kizzle]

He did... For ONE YEAR and he shot over 50% from the field.
Was it a contract year?

[3peated]

i bet you howard had a big part of smoove coming to houston. they are buds. i wish he could develop a bball iq :(

[Xsatyr]

Actually, the problem with Howard is his lack of touches. He only touched the ball what, 8 or 9 times? That's a coaching issue.

And as long as u guys have McHale on the bench, that's a problem that will persist if your only strategy consist of Harden having to be a basketball God every game....
His lack of touches is his own doing. He has been very lethargic since returning and has slowed down the Rockets ball movement. Also he is getting touches but can't convert bc of turnovers.

[dunksby]

Playing like django unchained :lol

[Hotlantadude81]

Was it a contract year?

No, he mentioned that he made a bet with a friend that he wouldn't take a bunch of 3pt shots.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html

That was also the year the Hawks won 53 games and Crawford won 6th man of the year.

His WS was 9.3. A career high by far.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Actually, the problem with Howard is his lack of touches. He only touched the ball what, 8 or 9 times? That's a coaching issue.

And as long as u guys have McHale on the bench, that's a problem that will persist if your only strategy consist of Harden having to be a basketball God every game....

Dwight's touches are a problem when teams try to run straight post ups for him. It's going to end badly more times than not.

If he focuses on being a pick and roll big (which even the numbers show the he's far and away the best at) then he can do 18-20ppg easily. His awful FT shooting and poor passing don't help either

[themurph]

Dwight's touches are a problem when teams try to run straight post ups for him. It's going to end badly more times than not.

If he focuses on being a pick and roll big (which even the numbers show the he's far and away the best at) then he can do 18-20ppg easily. His awful FT shooting and poor passing don't help either


He's a center. There are only 2 to 3 BIGS in the league that can be called good passers. Most BIGS shoot horribly from the FT line. U want Howard to defend and score....That's it.


And that won't happen as long as he's getting the ball 8 or 9 times in a game. I have my issues with Howard too. He at times looks disengaged from the game. But this is a coaching issue. McHale is the one that needs to get the side-eye.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

He's a center. There are only 2 to 3 BIGS in the league that can be called good passers. Most BIGS shoot horribly from the FT line. U want Howard to defend and score....That's it.


And that won't happen as long as he's getting the ball 8 or 9 times in a game. I have my issues with Howard too. He at times looks disengaged from the game. But this is a coaching issue. McHale is the one that needs to get the side-eye.

He doesn't need to be Marc or Pau Gasol with his passing. He just needs to not turn the ball over when he gets doubled or faces pressure. As of now that's a problem.

And his FT shooting is a problem because he simply isn't a dominant post up guy. With Shaq, for instance, it didn't matter that he sucked at FT shooting because he could still get 30 a game because he was actually great with his back to the basket.

McHale should run as many pick and rolls with Dwight as possible. I don't mean that he has to only shoot off of the pick and roll. Just run a quick screen, let him dive and get deep position before the defense sets, and he can score well enough. He's consistently been the best PnR big in the league for years now. It's only when they try to run down and just post him up like he's Kareem or something that he gets into trouble.

[chocolatethunder]

He doesn't need to be Marc or Pau Gasol with his passing. He just needs to not turn the ball over when he gets doubled or faces pressure. As of now that's a problem.

And his FT shooting is a problem because he simply isn't a dominant post up guy. With Shaq, for instance, it didn't matter that he sucked at FT shooting because he could still get 30 a game because he was actually great with his back to the basket.

McHale should run as many pick and rolls with Dwight as possible. I don't mean that he has to only shoot off of the pick and roll. Just run a quick screen, let him dive and get deep position before the defense sets, and he can score well enough. He's consistently been the best PnR big in the league for years now. It's only when they try to run down and just post him up like he's Kareem or something that he gets into trouble.
Honestly, Howard has always looked confused passing out of the double team. He really just can't learn or understand what to do with the rock once the double comes. It's baffling. If they aren't gonna PnR him he's just going to be an 18 and 12 til he retires. Not that there's anything wrong with that but he's just not effective in the post. It's awful to watch him catch a ball on the block and get doubled or even just get D'd up at all. It's just ugly.

[UK2K]

Honestly, Howard has always looked confused passing out of the double team. He really just can't learn or understand what to do with the rock once the double comes. It's baffling. If they aren't gonna PnR him he's just going to be an 18 and 12 til he retires. Not that there's anything wrong with that but he's just not effective in the post. It's awful to watch him catch a ball on the block and get doubled or even just get D'd up at all. It's just ugly.

When he catches in the post and IMMEDIATELY makes a move, he's unstoppable.

For some reason, nobody in the rockets organization has told him that dribbling three and four times in the block is not make him any more effective, and in fact, makes him an offensive liability.

His catch and spin or catch and drop step is unstoppable. Its his dribble dribble dribble moves that are the problem.

[UK2K]

Smith coming off the bench...

11 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.5apg

Rockets win four in a row.

Like I said, can potentially be a game changer as a sixth man.

Rockets 27-11, 3rd in the west

[YouGotServed]

Morey does it gain. The Rockets are like 6-1 with Josh Smith coming off the bench. :oldlol: He's a legit 6th MOY candidate. Excellent defender, rebounder, passer, slasher and can finish around the rim. A little bit of everything. And he's even making his 3s now. Houston's defense was already good, now add J-Smoov? Scary.

Edit: Yeah, Houston 3rd in the West. They're winning more games than last year. Remember when everyone said Houston was going to miss the playoffs because no Parsons, Lin and Asik? lol

[chocolatethunder]

When he catches in the post and IMMEDIATELY makes a move, he's unstoppable.

For some reason, nobody in the rockets organization has told him that dribbling three and four times in the block is not make him any more effective, and in fact, makes him an offensive liability.

His catch and spin or catch and drop step is unstoppable. Its his dribble dribble dribble moves that are the problem.
It depends on where he's catching it. If the double comes quickly he really just has no idea what to do with it. Also, since his injury he's really not the same. I don't really see him being unstoppable at all. He never had a good array of moves but when he was younger and more athletic he could move quickly and attack for an easy dunk. Those days are over. He's averaged less than 20 pts a whole lot more than he's averaged more than 20pts. He's never been unstoppable and certainly isn't going to be any time soon.

[UK2K]

Morey does it gain. The Rockets are like 6-1 with Josh Smith coming off the bench. :oldlol: He's a legit 6th MOY candidate. Excellent defender, rebounder, passer, slasher and can finish around the rim. A little bit of everything. And he's even making his 3s now. Houston's defense was already good, now add J-Smoov? Scary.

Edit: Yeah, Houston 3rd in the West. They're winning more games than last year. Remember when everyone said Houston was going to miss the playoffs because no Parsons, Lin and Asik? lol

Harden has assisted on 128 3's this year (or close to it) by far most in the league, so he's an elite playmaker.

Smith will continue to improve.

[ronnymac]

Smith is an incredible passer for someone that big. honestly after Harden he is the second best passer on this team. What has impressed me is his defense and shot blocking. He is an elite defender for his position. Looks like we got the Atlanta Josh Smith.

[YouGotServed]

Atlanta Smith always been there. Its just that his teammates sucked and he was being forced to do stuff he wasn't comfortable with. Now that he's playing alongside Harden and Howard he plays like a freaking beast. No surprise here. Give Morey a lot of credit for finding Smith.

A bench of Terrence Jones, Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, Big Papa and Jason Terry. :bowdown:

[ronnymac]

Atlanta Smith always been there. Its just that his teammates sucked and he was being forced to do stuff he wasn't comfortable with. Now that he's playing alongside Harden and Howard he plays like a freaking beast. No surprise here. Give Morey a lot of credit for finding Smith.

A bench of Terrence Jones, Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, Big Papa and Jason Terry. :bowdown:
After watching our bench suck for the last few years, it is amazing watching the current second unit. We haven't had this kind of depth for a few years.It is amazing once you put Smith in his natural spot(PF) he starts playing well again.

[Rake2204]

Atlanta Smith always been there. Its just that his teammates sucked and he was being forced to do stuff he wasn't comfortable with. Now that he's playing alongside Harden and Howard he plays like a freaking beast. No surprise here. Give Morey a lot of credit for finding Smith.

A bench of Terrence Jones, Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, Big Papa and Jason Terry. :bowdown:Respectfully, his teammates sucked? The same teammates that are 9-1 in his absence?

I do not have any qualms with the Houston Rockets but as I mentioned before - I'm interested in seeing what Smith ends up providing in the long run. In regards to being forced to do stuff he wasn't comfortable with... no one really asked him to lead the break in Detroit like he always tried to do. And no one really wanted him to shoot left-to-right leaning floaters across the lane. They were just kinda things he decided he wanted to do.

He was a pretty solid rebounder but he often nullified that ability by foregoing outlet passes for slow-paced transition attempts on a team featuring go-go-go point guards in Brandon Jennings and D.J. Augustin. I think it could be argued that Harden and Howard being so overwhelmingly the first two scoring options could work to Smith's benefit though - in terms of subliminally steering him away from his career antics.


It is amazing once you put Smith in his natural spot(PF) he starts playing well again.Smith started at power forward for the majority of the season in Detroit. Greg Monroe was coming off the bench (aside from possibly five or so games). Smith was the starting four, Drummond the five.

[YouGotServed]

Respectfully, his teammates sucked? The same teammates that are 9-1 in his absence?

I do not have any qualms with the Houston Rockets but as I mentioned before - I'm interested in seeing what Smith ends up providing in the long run. In regards to being forced to do stuff he wasn't comfortable with... no one really asked him to lead the break in Detroit like he always tried to do. And no one really wanted him to shoot right-to-left leaning floaters across the lane. They were just kinda things he decided he wanted to do.

He was a pretty solid rebounder but he often nullified that ability by foregoing outlet passes for slow-paced transition attempts on a team featuring go-go-go point guards in Brandon Jennings and D.J. Augustin. I think it could be argued that Harden and Howard being so overwhelmingly the first two scoring options could work to Smith's benefit though - in terms of subliminally steering him away from his career antics.

Smith started at power forward for the majority of the season in Detroit. Greg Monroe was coming off the bench (aside from possibly five or so games). Smith was the starting four, Drummond the five.

The team going 9-1 is clearly a fluke and a coincidence to me. Josh Smith always been an excellent player. Players tend to not give a shit on tanking teams or bad teams in general. Detroit's been pretty bad for years now and it's hard for players to play winning basketball when the franchise has that losing mentality. Not hating on the Pistons just typing. I mean, you're saying Smith been bad he just suddenly got good when traded to Houston? Please. This isn't Space Jam where players lose their talents and get them back at the end of the film. Josh Smith always been a talented fellow, his teammates in Detroit were just bad, IMHO.

[Human Error]

The team going 9-1 is clearly a fluke and a coincidence to me.
:biggums: :eek:

[UK2K]

:biggums: :eek:
To be fair, half those teams had losing records

[Cocaine80s]

Both teams got much better :applause: :applause:

[MiseryCityTexas]

The Rockets are a great team again after bringing Josh Smith off the bench again, instead of starting him.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Dwight's touches are a problem when teams try to run straight post ups for him. It's going to end badly more times than not.

If he focuses on being a pick and roll big (which even the numbers show the he's far and away the best at) then he can do 18-20ppg easily. His awful FT shooting and poor passing don't help either

It's wasn't a problem in last year's play-offs. Dwight's just not utilizing his post moves that he used in last year's play-offs.

[Asiantastic]

To be fair, half those teams had losing records

And all the teams that the Rockets have beaten since Smith's signing, with the exception of the Cavs, have losing records. So what's your point?

[Magic731]

To be fair, half those teams had losing records
To be fair, Detroit were a huge steaming pile of shit when they had Smith. Now it is actually a joy to watch them play basketball. This is ten games now, coinciding with the EXACT moment Smith left the team. This is no coincidence.

[Milbuck]

The team going 9-1 is clearly a fluke and a coincidence to me. Josh Smith always been an excellent player. Players tend to not give a shit on tanking teams or bad teams in general. Detroit's been pretty bad for years now and it's hard for players to play winning basketball when the franchise has that losing mentality. Not hating on the Pistons just typing. I mean, you're saying Smith been bad he just suddenly got good when traded to Houston? Please. This isn't Space Jam where players lose their talents and get them back at the end of the film. Josh Smith always been a talented fellow, his teammates in Detroit were just bad, IMHO.
His teammates didn't suck at all. They weren't elite but they were a playoff level team on paper, they have no less talent than the Nets or my Bucks. And they have one of the best coaches in the league. Literally the only reason they weren't playing close to that level was because Smith was playing like arguably the worst offensive player in NBA history, relative to usage/responsibility. Rake went over it many times before the trade..Smith was historically terrible. Just because he's found a nice role in Houston doesn't mean he wasn't the primary reason for Detroit being a complete joke before the trade and respectable after it.

[dunksby]

To be fair, half those teams had losing records
Pistons (14-24) are one of those teams with a losing record you moron :roll:

[UK2K]

And all the teams that the Rockets have beaten since Smith's signing, with the exception of the Cavs, have losing records. So what's your point?
That you don't get kudos for beating bad teams.

I never said anything about the rockets schedule. Quit being so defensive.

[UK2K]

Pistons (14-24) are one of those teams with a losing record you moron :roll:
What does that have to do with anything?

I just pointed out that they beat some awful teams. No doubt they're playing better without smith, but theyve also beaten some garbage teams.

What's up with the Detroit fans ITT?

[Human Error]

To be fair, half those teams had losing records
It's natural that 50% of teams would have winning records and 50% of teams would have losing records. :confusedshrug: What is your point, idiot? When the Pistons were going 5-23, none of those 23 loses didn't come against losing teams?

[Rake2204]

The team going 9-1 is clearly a fluke and a coincidence to me. Josh Smith always been an excellent player. Players tend to not give a shit on tanking teams or bad teams in general. Detroit's been pretty bad for years now and it's hard for players to play winning basketball when the franchise has that losing mentality. Not hating on the Pistons just typing. I must wholeheartedly disagree with a significant portion of your statement. I think the Pistons will come back down to Earth. Their current pace would have them finishing off the season at, like, 30-3 and that's obviously not going to come close to happening. They'll have to battle through their share of rough spots once again.

But on the other hand, I cannot imagine Detroit returning to the level they were at when Josh Smith was in town. We can say Josh Smith has been a great player before. His statistics look really good in many seasons with the Hawks. I'm guessing there were times he was doing really well (though I recall Hawks fans drawing issue with a lot of the same things Smith would do in Detroit, and celebrating his departure when Detroit picked him up).

However, to say Josh Smith "has always been an excellent player" is ridiculously false, in my opinion. If one is always an excellent player, they don't go through stretches where they are on pace for the worst shooting season in NBA history (his 39%, 24%, 47% were on pace to form the worst TS% of any player in NBA history taking at least 14 shots a night). A player who is "always excellent" would never, ever, go through a stretch like that.

Always excellent players would rise to some degree and help one's teammates improve. Josh Smith did the complete opposite in Detroit. And again, I don't say this as someone who doesn't like the Houston Rockets or something. Instead, I'm saying this as someone who watched every single Pistons game this season and someone who had made numerous posts about Smith's toxic level of play days, weeks, and months before he was finally waived. Yes, it was that bad.

To be clear - he's certainly talented, but that's never been the problem with Smith. His talent is why the possibility for him turning it around always remains. It's been his decision-making and willingness to try to do things he's not good at, a lot, that's been harmful.

For instance, if Smith just used his good rebounding skills in Detroit as a platform for throwing great outlet passes and running the floor on the wing - that'd have been wonderful utilization of a good skill. Instead, he opted to take off up the floor on his own fast break - at a slow pace, relegating speedster guards Jennings & Augustin to slow motion transition spotters and allowing the entire defense to recover before he often forced a pass to nowhere.


I mean, you're saying Smith been bad he just suddenly got good when traded to Houston? Please. This isn't Space Jam where players lose their talents and get them back at the end of the film.I'm saying, by and large, Josh Smith was a huge negative for the Detroit Pistons this year. He had skills, but utilized them in an awful manner and constantly seemed to believe he was way better than he was. He led the Pistons in shot attempts by 68, yet was a power forward hitting only 39% of his those shots and only 47% of his free throws (second on the team in free throw attempts as well).

Did he have some really nice games sometimes? Absolutely, but even those often felt dirty. I'll put it to you this way, he didn't shoot over 50% in a single game until the 24th contest of the year (five games before his release). Again, that's coming from your leading shot-taker.

To say, "he just suddenly got good when traded to Houston"... I wouldn't get ahead of myself. He had a nice three game shooting stretch a week ago when he hit an impressive 23/39 from the field. When I say impressive, I mean that honestly. That's very, very good (aside from the 2/8 free throws during the same stretch). However, that was bookended by five games before that stretch when he shot 18/52 (34.6%) and three games since where he's shot 10/28 (35.7%).

His three-game stretch alone (the good one) is something he never did in Detroit (I'd shoot from the hip and say it may be cause his low shot attempts in two of those games meant he was maybe showing some form of restraint) but I'd still stop short of saying "he just suddenly got good". As a Rocket, he's shooting 42.9% from the field, 22.7% from the arc, and 39.1% from the free throw line. Two of those three categories are actually worse than his numbers in Detroit. He's also currently averaging 1.9 assists and 2.6 turnovers in Houston - yielding a much worse assist-to-turnover ratio than we saw in Detroit (though his passing decisions in Motown were still often maddening).

Limiting his shooting opportunities may allow his good qualities to move toward the forefront, and attempting around three less shots in Houston may give off more of that impression. His issue hasn't really been his talent - it's been his decision to continuously try to do things he's not talented at. So if all the extra bad things get squashed (running flat hooks from 10 feet out, forced push runners in the face of defenders, slow-footed drives with one's head down resulted in funny angle bank tries, impossible passes) then much good remains. It's just most teams, coaches, and fans haven't seen Smith able to stop doing that stuff over the long term.

[Xsatyr]

It's wasn't a problem in last year's play-offs. Dwight's just not utilizing his post moves that he used in last year's play-offs.
It's a problem when Dwight faces legit bigs which Portland lacked.

[lilteapot]

What does that have to do with anything?

I just pointed out that they beat some awful teams. No doubt they're playing better without smith, but theyve also beaten some garbage teams.

What's up with the Detroit fans ITT?
Right, and they've beaten the Spurs and Dallas at home too.

[boozehound]

Respectfully, his teammates sucked? The same teammates that are 9-1 in his absence?

I do not have any qualms with the Houston Rockets but as I mentioned before - I'm interested in seeing what Smith ends up providing in the long run. In regards to being forced to do stuff he wasn't comfortable with... no one really asked him to lead the break in Detroit like he always tried to do. And no one really wanted him to shoot left-to-left right leaning floaters across the lane. They were just kinda things he decided he wanted to do.

He was a pretty solid rebounder but he often nullified that ability by foregoing outlet passes for slow-paced transition attempts on a team featuring go-go-go point guards in Brandon Jennings and D.J. Augustin. I think it could be argued that Harden and Howard being so overwhelmingly the first two scoring options could work to Smith's benefit though - in terms of subliminally steering him away from his career antics.

Smith started at power forward for the majority of the season in Detroit. Greg Monroe was coming off the bench (aside from possibly five or so games). Smith was the starting four, Drummond the five.
I have heard this time and time again (smith at the 3) and it just shows how ill informed most people are about the situation. less than 20% of all the minutes he played this year were at the 3. He was playing the four 80% of the time he was on the floor.

I am glad he is doing well in Houston (I always said he would help them), but I am through the roof that he is no longer a piston, even without the winning streak.

[boozehound]

What does that have to do with anything?

I just pointed out that they beat some awful teams. No doubt they're playing better without smith, but theyve also beaten some garbage teams.

What's up with the Detroit fans ITT?
awful is probably too strong a word. All of those teams had a much better record than detroit and all of them are in the hunt for the same playoff spots as detroit. Detroit has been handily beating teams that are "better" than them record wise. Of the 5 teams with below .500 records, only the knicks and the kings are out of the playoff hunt.

[boozehound]

Right, and they've beaten the Spurs and Dallas at home too.
they went 3-1 in a 4 game, five nights against the spurs, dallas, hawks and nets. all 4 playoff teams.....

[MiseryCityTexas]

Rockets are almost a championship contending team since they made Smith the permanent sixth man. Smith should be a lock for 6th man of the year.

[MiseryCityTexas]

It's a problem when Dwight faces legit bigs which Portland lacked.


Yeah you have a point. Robin Lopez is not exactly a high quality NBA center.

[KungFuJoe]

Rockets are almost a championship contending team since they made Smith the permanent sixth man. Smith should be a lock for 6th man of the year.

Could Smith be the first player to win 6th man of the year (Houston) AND MVP (Detroit) in the same year?

[YouGotServed]

Could Smith be the first player to win 6th man of the year (Houston) AND MVP (Detroit) in the same year?

Yes.

[Rake2204]

Both squads took an L tonight. Josh Smith went 2-11 (0-4 from three) with 4 turnovers.

The Pistons were down by 20 for most of their game against the Pelicans (somehow only lost 105-94).

Maybe the Pistons should look into picking Smith up at the deadline.

[el_locoteee]

Both squads took an L tonight. Josh Smith went 2-11 (0-4 from three) with 4 turnovers.

The Pistons were down by 20 for most of their game against the Pelicans (somehow only lost 105-94).

Maybe the Pistons should look into picking Smith up at the deadline.

Also 5 assist 10 rebounds and a block with a +10

[Rake2204]

Also 5 assist 10 rebounds and a block with a +10Oh yes, he did that stuff in Detroit as well. Unfortunately, his shooting and shot selection were so abnormally awful that he often nullified those other worthy aspects of his game.

Thus far with the Rockets, he's currently shooting 40.7% from the field, 18.5% from the arc, and 38.4% from the free throw line while taking 10.8 shots a night.

If Houston can continue to skew him away from taking any shot besides an open bunny inside or filling a lane on a fast break, that would go far in peeling away his toxicity and leaving behind the good aspects you mentioned (the rebounding, solid defense). I also think he's sometimes a good passer, though he seemed to take that ability and overreach, resulting in unforced mistakes. I cannot speak on that in Houston though, for I have not watched him play much there. He looks to be averaging a touch more turnovers per game in Houston in about 8 less minutes of action (2.2 assists and 2.8 turnovers).

[Magic731]

What does that have to do with anything?

I just pointed out that they beat some awful teams. No doubt they're playing better without smith, but theyve also beaten some garbage teams.

What's up with the Detroit fans ITT?
Of course they beat some awful teams. They also beat some great teams. That's what happens when you play 10+ games, you play good and bad teams. Detroit fans in this thread are being no different to Houston fans, you just made a stupid comment.

[Done_And_Done]

Oh yes, he did that stuff in Detroit as well. Unfortunately, his shooting and shot selection were so abnormally awful that he often nullified those other worthy aspects of his game.

Thus far with the Rockets, he's currently shooting 40.7% from the field, 18.5% from the arc, and 38.4% from the free throw line while taking 10.8 shots a night.

If Houston can continue to skew him away from taking any shot besides an open bunny inside or filling a lane on a fast break, that would go far in peeling away his toxicity and leaving behind the good aspects you mentioned (the rebounding, solid defense). I also think he's sometimes a good passer, though he seemed to take that ability and overreach, resulting in unforced mistakes. I cannot speak on that in Houston though, for I have not watched him play much there. He looks to be averaging a touch more turnovers per game in Houston in about 8 less minutes of action (2.2 assists and 2.8 turnovers).

Wishful thinking Rake. I can't remember the last time this moron went a game without hoisting up at least one long ball. I forget who it was that was trying to sway me into believing that his 3pa's were a product of Houston's offense and the ball finding itself in his hands at the tail end of the shot clock. No... Just no...

Never knew a player who needed a harder reality hit to the jaw.

[Done_And_Done]

Did he have some really nice games sometimes? Absolutely, but even those often felt dirty. I'll put it to you this way, he didn't shoot over 50% in a single game until the 24th contest of the year (five games before his release). Again, that's coming from your leading shot-taker.


That is just fricken deplorable... Smh lol

[boozehound]

Wishful thinking Rake. I can't remember the last time this moron went a game without hoisting up at least one long ball. I forget who it was that was trying to sway me into believing that his 3pa's were a product of Houston's offense and the ball finding itself in his hands at the tail end of the shot clock. No... Just no...

Never knew a player who needed a harder reality hit to the jaw.
if hes only jacking one 3 a game, I think that is a win for houston. You cannot expect him to stop it entirely. Glad to see houston doing well with him. I wonder if they will ever put him back in the starting lineup?

[UK2K]

12-7 since acquiring Smith.

But they've won 9 of their last 12, beating Dallas, Oklahoma City, Phoenix, and Cleveland in that stretch.

Like I said boys, give him time to find his place. Give him time to fit in, and get in the rhythm, and he will be a great pick up.

3-4 in the first seven games after Smith, 9-3 since then. Last four games, he's been playing especially well.

Last 4:

12 ppg, 4 rpg, 2 apg, 2 bpg, shooting 55% from the field, and 55% from deep (6-11)

During the 9-3 stretch:

10.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.3 apg, 46% from the floor, 37% from deep, in 23 minutes per.

[SexSymbol]

Oh yes, he did that stuff in Detroit as well. Unfortunately, his shooting and shot selection were so abnormally awful that he often nullified those other worthy aspects of his game.

Thus far with the Rockets, he's currently shooting 40.7% from the field, 18.5% from the arc, and 38.4% from the free throw line while taking 10.8 shots a night.

If Houston can continue to skew him away from taking any shot besides an open bunny inside or filling a lane on a fast break, that would go far in peeling away his toxicity and leaving behind the good aspects you mentioned (the rebounding, solid defense). I also think he's sometimes a good passer, though he seemed to take that ability and overreach, resulting in unforced mistakes. I cannot speak on that in Houston though, for I have not watched him play much there. He looks to be averaging a touch more turnovers per game in Houston in about 8 less minutes of action (2.2 assists and 2.8 turnovers).
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[YouGotServed]

It was refreshing to see Rondo suck against Houston last night. To make matters worse Josh Smith had perhaps his best game as a Rocket. Huge 3s, clutch blocks, key rebounds, just an all around great performance.

Morey and Houston. stay winning.

[RightTwoCensor]

It was refreshing to see Rondo suck against Houston last night. To make matters worse Josh Smith had perhaps his best game as a Rocket. Huge 3s, clutch blocks, key rebounds, just an all around great performance.

Morey and Houston. stay winning.
****ing stop it!

Don't you see these people have suffered enough? Their tears can fill a river and they can't hold anymore Ls.

I may have to start reporting you for bullying if you keep making Mavs fans cut their wrists, again.

[Rake2204]

12-7 since acquiring Smith.

But they've won 9 of their last 12, beating Dallas, Oklahoma City, Phoenix, and Cleveland in that stretch.

Like I said boys, give him time to find his place. Give him time to fit in, and get in the rhythm, and he will be a great pick up.

3-4 in the first seven games after Smith, 9-3 since then. Last four games, he's been playing especially well.

Last 4:

12 ppg, 4 rpg, 2 apg, 2 bpg, shooting 55% from the field, and 55% from deep (6-11)

During the 9-3 stretch:

10.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.3 apg, 46% from the floor, 37% from deep, in 23 minutes per.Oh my goodness. Just looked up his line from last night. 4-5 from deep. I would question whether he's ever had a shooting night like that from the arc in his life.

Very difficult for me to talk about Smith now without coming across like I'm trying to belittle the Rockets. I do not mean to come across like that - I don't really have an issue with Houston at all.

But with Smith being one of the most negative on-court players with a significant role I've ever seen, I can't help but watch his play with interest. Even when I see him do well, my first instinct is to say, "Don't get fooled by this, Houston fans! It'll never last! He's an awful shooter!"

Tough to deduce too much from his recent stats without having watched though. I'd presume he was waiting for better looks around the hoop, resulting in the boost in field goal percentage, but then his 5 pulls from deep may suggest otherwise.