Bulls fan here little concerned with Rose, inputs appreciated

[Kellogs4toniee]

Lived in Chicago for more than 15 years, consider it my home town, been watching the Bulls since the 90's when I was a little kid. I think anyone who digs in posts here can see that my support has always been to the Bulls and I have tried to be as objective as I can.

Here is Rose's shooting in his last five games:

5-18 @ Home against Boston
7-25 @ Home against Denver
2-15 @ Home against Nets
5-20 @ Indiana against Pacers
8-18 @ Home against Pelicans

He shot sub 41% all of December and 43% in November (granted he was out with injuries and sorts for a significant portion of those games). I did watch all those games, and yes he played very strong and clutch-wise when it came to the 4th quarter, ie flurry of points against the Nuggets in the closing quarter and the most recent layup against Boston in overtime.

However, my main reason for this post is it is sort of alarming he is still having these kind of *extended horrible shooting displays when you consider the high level of talent and depth currently on this team. It is not like he has not had his reps. Extending all the way to the summer FIBA games, he has had plenty of time to get his legs under him and to polish his shot selection.

It is now 2 months into the NBA season, and it is my honest opinion that he still hasn't figured out how to most efficiently make the opponents pay when focused on him with the level of talent we currently have. He is clearly going for the "take over" in the 4th quarter approach while taking steady shots here and there throughout the early and middle portions of the game. However, I was never a big fan of the shoot 20-30 % the entire game then make 2-3 clutch shots near or at the end of game type of play. With the crazy emergence of how good Butler has become, re-emergence of Gasol, Dunleavy is gelling well, we have ROY contender Mirotic, a great backup in Brooks, and savy do it all veterans like Noah and Hinrich, I guess I sort of expected Rose to be more of a consistent floor general at this point.

Bulls fans who have been following Rose this entire time understand the true scope of how much love and support the organization has given him the last few years. Not just the organization but his teammates. The players and Thibodeau understand the 4th quarter the ball should and always will be in Derrick's hands. Noah has always been like a big brother to Rose, protecting him both on and off the court as a mentor and friend. Not many players have had this type of organizational support like Rose has had, and yes it is truly and very deserving. The main point of this paragraph is to illustrate that the city has done everything to make Rose's transition back into the game as smooth and comfortable as possible. Another reason why I feel like he should be showing a more confident and stead-fast game at this point of the season.

Look, for those who think i'm bagging on him, that is not my intent at all. I'm not saying the seasons over or he is never going to be a good fit for this team. This post is just a short - term opinion on a matter that quite easily could be completely forgotten post All-star break in March or when playoffs start looking. But as a life-long Bulls fan with Rose being my favorite player since he has come into the league, I deserve just as much to point out concerns and to be a critic... on a constructive level of course.

Obvious trolls aside (who i'm going to ignore), what do some of you think? I am interested to see what Dengness, Kblaze, Pointguard, and some of the other Bulls fans on these forums think. Would also like to think what non-Bulls fans think, as objective as possible I hope.

For me personally, I think he will find his balance by March and we will be a strong contender.

[hawksdogsbraves]

If I'm a Bulls fan I'm just not really worried about it right now. After all his injuries he was going to take a while to get his form back, a half-season or more is probably what most reasonable fans expected.

Luckily the Bulls are so good that it doesn't matter much, and with the emergence of Butler they don't need MVP Rose until the playoffs. Hell, they may not even need him then with how good that supporting cast is.

Some of the stuff he says about not wanting to push himself or how he doesn't plan on chucking up less 3's is a bit off-putting, but I wouldn't worry about any of it now. It's not like the Bulls are floundering.

[beastee]

I watch every game. He is still afraid of his knees going out. He settles for jumpers in the first half. When he subs in for the 4th he drives and is aggressive. Come playoff time he will not be taking nights or halves off and will be aggressive. He is no longer a superstar anymore, but a legit all star when it matters most. If he starts struggling in clutch time...then worry.

[Roundball_Rock]

He is settling for too many 3's and long range 2's. If he drove more he would be more efficient--both directly and via increased FT's. Tonight he did not get to the FT line until the final minute of OT...A reason why he is more efficient in the 4th is he is more aggressive and drives more then.

With the offensive firepower on this team, there is no longer a need for Rose to take as many shots if he remains this inefficient. He could settle into a 14-16 ppg role where he focuses on facilitating and closing out games. Butler and Gasol would do more with the transferred shots.

Rose's outside shot simply is not good enough to warrant his current shot selection. I was hoping he would have a much improved shot this year but that has not happened. He should drive more, shoot less and then spend the offseason on his shot. He is right, if he does develop a strong outside shot he would be far more formidable a player. That will not happen this year, though.

All that said, I am a optimist. Rose will be better in the spring and hence in the playoffs. We don't need Rose to be MVP Rose to win the title this year. My concern, though, is Rose's awful shooting nights are leading to close games against the likes of the Celtics and Nuggets. Rose could shoot us out of the #1 seed. Toronto is the real deal and even Atlanta has held steady thus far this season--i.e. they lead Portland by 7 right now. (Washington has been exposed against top teams imo and Cleveland is not a threat for the top seed)

[Pointguard]

Yeah, he has some balance issues and he doesn't understand why he doesn't get the lift he should on a lot of shots. And they fall flat. His will seems to override the issues in the fourth quarter. Greg Anthony said something interesting: He said its usually the second year that you fully get your legs back. The Bulls have a full week off after the All-Star break. Hopefully he takes it off. And the rest, does some extra healing. I never felt he was healed before the meniscus tear, but I think he's ok now but can't trust his body because it doesn't do what he thinks it should.

[Pointguard]

All that said, I am a optimist. Rose will be better in the spring and hence in the playoffs. We don't need Rose to be MVP Rose to win the title this year. My concern, though, is Rose's awful shooting nights are leading to close games against the likes of the Celtics and Nuggets. Rose could shoot us out of the #1 seed. Toronto is the real deal and even Atlanta has held steady thus far this season--i.e. they lead Portland by 7 right now. (Washington has been exposed against top teams imo and Cleveland is not a threat for the top seed)

You worry too much and too quickly. He's not costing the Bulls the number one seed and without him it isn't happening anyway. If he doesn't try to be where he can help them win it all then its useless. The team, without Rose, is kind of all over the place. The close games now are good for them.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Roundball really nailed it by explaining the main reason for my concern and post better than I myself even explained. The biggest issue with his recent shooting for me is that it has caused games that we should be blowing away to be close. Granted the main reason for this is because I am in full "WIN THIS YEAR" mode, and our seed is not where I would like it to be. Toronto does look legit, atlanta looks good, but I would of liked us to be at least 2-3 games ahead as the full #1 by now.

I completely agree with everything that has been said so far. His three is just not an efficient shot, no matter how much he appears to think he is given his confidence in shooting it (at costly results). We do not need him to be MVP Rose.

It is going to be really tough for him to transition into that 15-20 PPG scorer who takes over towards the end of games. Finding the right balance can be one of the hardest things to do for someone who has been the # 1 guy pretty much his entire life. Although it is clear his touch around the rim is not where it was before he got injured, he should most definitely still drive more.

[BIZARRO]

Rose could really go either way. Gonna wait to see what happen before making the conclusive analysis.

More concerned with Thibs complete insistence on playing an over the hill, less than mediocre Kirk Hinrich 37 minutes a game, while playing Aaron Brook only 20.

One example of many, the Bulls Celtics game: Brooks 19 points in 20 minutes and +7 . Hinrich 8 points in 37 minutes and a -7.

I hate how coaches fall in love with Kirk Hinrich when he's flat out not very good. And certainly shouldn't be playing big minutes for a championship contender.
I don't feel like he'd be playing big minutes for hardly any team. Other than Thibs who falls in love with his work ethic, despite the lack of talent and old age.

[dubnation]

I can't recall seeing many if any dunks from him this year. Is this something you guys have noticed? Dude definitely looks tentative out there.

[nathanjizzle]

he plays well when hes motivated, hence the 4th quarters hes had and the great games against other elite pgs. He really doesnt even care too much about the regular season either, its about getting to the post season for him.

all in all, hes been a positive impact on this team, we are still winning, 9-1 the last ten games. If you say rose doesnt have a good impact on the team, then you are just watching the box score.

[Budadiiii]

Dude is like a 5th option now. He sucks and he'll never be a top 50 player

[hawksdogsbraves]

Rose could really go either way. Gonna wait to see what happen before making the conclusive analysis.

More concerned with Thibs complete insistence on playing an over the hill, less than mediocre Kirk Hinrich 37 minutes a game, while playing Aaron Brook only 20.

One example of many, the Bulls Celtics game: Brooks 19 points in 20 minutes and +7 . Hinrich 8 points in 37 minutes and a -7.

I hate how coaches fall in love with Kirk Hinrich when he's flat out not very good. And certainly shouldn't be playing big minutes for a championship contender.
I don't feel like he'd be playing big minutes for hardly any team. Other than Thibs who falls in love with his work ethic, despite the lack of talent and old age.


Brooks and Hinrich are just very different players. In most cases Thibs probably doesn't want or need another scorer out there running the point, and would prefer to have somebody who is good at playing within the defensive system.

[Pointguard]

Roundball really nailed it by explaining the main reason for my concern and post better than I myself even explained. The biggest issue with his recent shooting for me is that it has caused games that we should be blowing away to be close.

Dude, its waaaaay more important to get things right, than it is to win by a blowout vs a close game. You are upset with the point differential moreso than getting it right. I remember when the Heat did this their first year together, they didn't get it right and had a big losing streak in the middle of the year. You are basically upset with the Bulls winning and achieving their goal. Stop looking the horse in the mouth. They aren't winning anything without Rose.



It is going to be really tough for him to transition into that 15-20 PPG scorer who takes over towards the end of games.

Who is the guy I'm seeing averaging that now and taking over 3 games in the fourth, in the last two weeks with Rose on his jersey?

[Blue&Orange]

He is tired. IT's been a while since he played so many games. The bulls as a team look tired also.

[emaugust]

he has been missing a lot of those athletic layups and reverse layups that were automatic his MVP year. I find that a bit concerning, but like it has been said we won't know much until the playoffs.

[nathanjizzle]

this thread is stupid btw.

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's very simple. Minute restrictions, and the focus on grooming his jumper while also conserving his body for the playoffs. When he does decide to be Rose, and take it to the basket with aggression he's completely unstoppable. I think he's being cautious with his body, with the long haul in mind. So he can't be MVP / Superstar D. Rose but he can still provide just the right amount of help until the playoffs. He has more help than he's ever had with Butler's improvement, and Gasol's resurgence.

[Smoke117]

Why is he taking so many 3pters in the first place? He's never been what anyone would consider even a good three point shooter...yet he's taking a career high 5.2 this year while shooting 26%. It's also his highest percentage of shots from behind the arc in relation to his overall shot attempts.

[TylerOO]

Hes a bum

[Kellogs4toniee]

Dude, its waaaaay more important to get things right, than it is to win by a blowout vs a close game. You are upset with the point differential moreso than getting it right. I remember when the Heat did this their first year together, they didn't get it right and had a big losing streak in the middle of the year. You are basically upset with the Bulls winning and achieving their goal. Stop looking the horse in the mouth. They aren't winning anything without Rose.



Who is the guy I'm seeing averaging that now and taking over 3 games in the fourth, in the last two weeks with Rose on his jersey?

My main point is I would like to see him get to the point where he does this, but at a decent to good efficiency the entire game so we win games in which we should be soundly winning with our roster. I am happy the comments so far validate this type of response. Shoot less threes, drive more, dont settle for too many jumpers, etc.

Don't get so defensive? As a fan you have the right to be extremely critical of your team.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why is he taking so many 3pters in the first place? He's never been what anyone would consider even a good three point shooter...yet he's taking a career high 5.2 this year while shooting 26%. It's also his highest percentage of shots from behind the arc in relation to his overall shot attempts.
Why not shoot it as much in the regular season when games matter less, and the Bulls have more offensive help than they've ever had to still win games without needing Derrick to be a volume scorer? He's essentially practicing on it. If it's not losing them games, who cares?

[zizozain]

he's doing it when it matters (4th q)

clutch

shooting will be better

No conceren

[miggyme1]

well im a big drose fan..he played for my school in college...the university of memphis. dating all the way back to his college days he has always been a volume scorer. thats nothing really new...even the year he won mvp his numbers werent "jumping off the stat sheet". rose's calling card has always been his explosiveness on both sides of the court.he has never been known as being a refined player like a lebron/kd.

a very streaker shooter...below average midrange game...below average long range game...no post game...dude still might be the most explosive player in the league tho after two knee surgeries and thats just something you're born with. still my fav player to watch as well because you never know when he will shake and bake and squeeze his way to the rim for a slick reverse double scoop layup.

[SamuraiSWISH]

below average midrange game...below average long range game.
You didn't watch him circa 2010 - 2012 pre ACL tear then.

[Smoke117]

Why not shoot it as much in the regular season when games matter less, and the Bulls have more offensive help than they've ever had to still win games without needing Derrick to be a volume scorer? He's essentially practicing on it. If it's not losing them games, who cares?

:kobe: You'd support anything Rose did...you are such a stan. Can even twist horrible 3 point jacking into something positive.

[Kellogs4toniee]

You didn't watch him circa 2010 - 2012 pre ACL tear then.

Agreed he shot great considering he carried the bulk of the offensive duties and shots on the then Bulls roster.

[LilEddyCurry]

PM Poido, he will tell you everything positive about Rose :)

[SamuraiSWISH]

:kobe: You'd support anything Rose did...you are such a stan. Can even twist horrible 3 point jacking into something positive.
Um, I haven't supported everything Derrick's done for starters.

But if we're winning games, him working on his 3, and attempting to shoot himself out of a slump isn't a problem. Which is the only way to get out of one. If you've played, you'd know that.

I have no problem with it as long as we're winning regular season games, where you can work on things to ramp up for the more meaningful aspects of the season.

[Roundball_Rock]

Saying the Bulls are winning ignores the small margin of error among the top East teams. The Bulls currently are on pace for 58 wins--and are in 3rd place...You can't plan on shooting 25% on 20 shots and assume you will manage to do enough to win every time...if this persists, it could come back to haunt us in a few games. I simply have never been a fan of "gunning it" and taking 20-25 shots when your stroke is off, especially on a team with offensive talent like these Bulls or the Lakers when Kobe was doing the same a few years ago. These are NBA games. If you want to practice on your 26% three point percentage do it during practice and at your gym...he is not going to see a significant jump in his three point shot within the season. Take less 3's, drive more and then work on it each day over the summer.

We recognize Rose's worth and we are rooting for him. We cannot win a championship without Rose. We cannot beat Toronto or Atlanta without Rose. I am concerned but not worried. I think Rose will hit his stride in the spring and carry that through to the playoffs. Let's remember he has not played in 2 seasons.

Great point on Brooks vs. Hinrich. Hinrich has been useless offensively for several seasons now.

[Dengness9]

Kellogs! Good to hear from you my dude.


In just two pages much has already been said concerning your OP.

Ill try not to beat a dead horse.

I think Derrick Rose is obsessed with just making it to the playoffs with his body intact.

Look at the BIG games hes had this year.....

Portland, Toronto, @Washington. 3 games against 3 top dog teams with top PG's at the helm.... coincidence? Absolutely not.

At this point in Rose's career, after missing 3 straight playoffs, he only has looked MVP form 3 times because those were the only 3 times all season the spotlight has been on him and his matchup against the other PG.

If he has something to prove, he plays like a beast. And I understand Bulls fans or bball fans in general having a problem with that approach.

I personally love it. Yes its annoying at times seeing him shoot awfully and take awful shots, but I dont care if he averages 15-17ppg on 40% if it means he makes it to the playoffs healthy.

WHEN IT COMES TO THESE BULLS, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS RIGHT NOW BESIDES KEEPING OUR PLAYERS HEALTHY(ish).

I hope Derrick doesnt make the all star team this year. I want him to have the week off. I also want to see him go through not being an "all-star" in this league, I think it will make him hungrier and more determined.

Rose has shown me enough through 20-25 games that he still has it when it really matters. He's been ridiculously clutch in the 4th this year and that's very promising for a team that already has Buckets and Pau who can get a bucket in the crunch as well.

Last thing i will say......the 3 pointers. He needs to cut down on so many bad 3's like everyone else and their mother is saying. What he needs to do, is take a few less 3's a game and trade those in for mid range jumpers.

He's a fabulous mid range shooter and float shooter. He can still preserve his knees, take an extra cross dribble or hesitation, and knock down the mid range shot with a MUCH higher percentage than those 3's.

Anyone ever notice how god awful Rose's first 3pt attempt in every game has been? They are the definition of BRICKS.

All that said, Rose will be fine, he finally has a team w/ little to no weakness around him. This is the Bulls year if there ever was one post Jordan era.

[Dengness9]

:kobe: You'd support anything Rose did...you are such a stan. Can even twist horrible 3 point jacking into something positive.


He's right though in a sense Smoke. I dont advocate taking horrible shots just to get them up. But if there was a situation for Derrick to continue to take in game 3's that matter, and the Bulls win either way, then take em.

I just have a problem with how many he takes in some games, or when he takes the 3's vs. the flow of the game.

It's all a work in progress.

[Dengness9]

this thread is stupid btw.


No its not. Cmon Nate, youre better than that. It's a good and necessary convo to have.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think Derrick Rose is obsessed with just making it to the playoffs with his body intact.

Look at the BIG games hes had this year.....

Portland, Toronto, @Washington. 3 games against 3 top dog teams with top PG's at the helm.... coincidence? Absolutely not.

At this point in Rose's career, after missing 3 straight playoffs, he only has looked MVP form 3 times because those were the only 3 times all season the spotlight has been on him and his matchup against the other PG.

If he has something to prove, he plays like a beast. And I understand Bulls fans or bball fans in general having a problem with that approach.

I personally love it. Yes its annoying at times seeing him shoot awfully and take awful shots, but I dont care if he averages 15-17ppg on 40% if it means he makes it to the playoffs healthy.
:applause:

[Kellogs4toniee]

Um, I haven't supported everything Derrick's done for starters.

But if we're winning games, him working on his 3, and attempting to shoot himself out of a slump isn't a problem. Which is the only way to get out of one. If you've played, you'd know that.

I have no problem with it as long as we're winning regular season games, where you can work on things to ramp up for the more meaningful aspects of the season.


To be fair though, Rose has preached on how much he has tried to improve his jumper, especially the 3 the last few years during his injury. He now has had an entire summer of FIBA play, and two full months of pretty much jacking up 3's and there just does not seem to be any improvement.

At some point you have to just figure he is what he is at a certain skill set instead of always turning a blind eye. I just don't think any form of Derrick Rose that shoots over 5 three pointers a game is doing it at a positive overall impact for his team. Very concerning when you consider defensive schemes in the playoffs will ultimately sag off him and dare him to shoot wide open 3's.

As people have mentioned we def wont know how concerning it truly is till probably post All-star break but I would ultimately still like him to average only about three 3's a game.

[SamuraiSWISH]

To be fair though, Rose has preached on how much he has tried to improve his jumper, especially the 3 the last few years during his injury. He now has had an entire summer of FIBA play, and two full months of pretty much jacking up 3's and there just does not seem to be any improvement.

At some point you have to just figure he is what he is at a certain skill set instead of always turning a blind eye. I just don't think any form of Derrick Rose that shoots over 5 three pointers a game is doing it at a positive overall impact for his team. Very concerning when you consider defensive schemes in the playoffs will ultimately sag off him and dare him to shoot wide open 3's.
I don't think he'll be taking those shots with regularity in meaningful games, let alone the playoffs dude.

As Dengness pointed out, have you seen Rose in his 3 best games, against hyped teams, and elite contemporaries at his position? He's performed, and played his best in those.

That's how he'll play when things matter. Derrick is kind of a show pony in that regard. He gets up as a competitor for the big names to prove himself.

[Roundball_Rock]

Who has ever dramatically improved their 3 point shooting during a season? It is what it is. Write it off and then hope to improve on it over the summer. We have too many weapons to waste 5 possessions on Rose jacking up 3's.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Kellogs! Good to hear from you my dude.


In just two pages much has already been said concerning your OP.

Ill try not to beat a dead horse.

I think Derrick Rose is obsessed with just making it to the playoffs with his body intact.

Look at the BIG games hes had this year.....

Portland, Toronto, @Washington. 3 games against 3 top dog teams with top PG's at the helm.... coincidence? Absolutely not.

At this point in Rose's career, after missing 3 straight playoffs, he only has looked MVP form 3 times because those were the only 3 times all season the spotlight has been on him and his matchup against the other PG.

If he has something to prove, he plays like a beast. And I understand Bulls fans or bball fans in general having a problem with that approach.

I personally love it. Yes its annoying at times seeing him shoot awfully and take awful shots, but I dont care if he averages 15-17ppg on 40% if it means he makes it to the playoffs healthy.

WHEN IT COMES TO THESE BULLS, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS RIGHT NOW BESIDES KEEPING OUR PLAYERS HEALTHY(ish).

I hope Derrick doesnt make the all star team this year. I want him to have the week off. I also want to see him go through not being an "all-star" in this league, I think it will make him hungrier and more determined.

Rose has shown me enough through 20-25 games that he still has it when it really matters. He's been ridiculously clutch in the 4th this year and that's very promising for a team that already has Buckets and Pau who can get a bucket in the crunch as well.

Last thing i will say......the 3 pointers. He needs to cut down on so many bad 3's like everyone else and their mother is saying. What he needs to do, is take a few less 3's a game and trade those in for mid range jumpers.

He's a fabulous mid range shooter and float shooter. He can still preserve his knees, take an extra cross dribble or hesitation, and knock down the mid range shot with a MUCH higher percentage than those 3's.

Anyone ever notice how god awful Rose's first 3pt attempt in every game has been? They are the definition of BRICKS.

All that said, Rose will be fine, he finally has a team w/ little to no weakness around him. This is the Bulls year if there ever was one post Jordan era.

Yea, ultimately that's what I figured my friend. He does not shy away from the big competition and he will step this all up in the playoffs.

I already touched this with Samurai, and it goes along with what you said. Over 5 threes a games is just not his game. Mid range, floaters, and drives are more like it.

[Dengness9]

Saying the Bulls are winning ignores the small margin of error among the top East teams. The Bulls currently are on pace for 58 wins--and are in 3rd place...You can't plan on shooting 25% on 20 shots and assume you will manage to do enough to win every time...if this persists, it could come back to haunt us in a few games. I simply have never been a fan of "gunning it" and taking 20-25 shots when your stroke is off, especially on a team with offensive talent like these Bulls or the Lakers when Kobe was doing the same a few years ago. These are NBA games. If you want to practice on your 26% three point percentage do it during practice and at your gym...he is not going to see a significant jump in his three point shot within the season. Take less 3's, drive more and then work on it each day over the summer.

We recognize Rose's worth and we are rooting for him. We cannot win a championship without Rose. We cannot beat Toronto or Atlanta without Rose. I am concerned but not worried. I think Rose will hit his stride in the spring and carry that through to the playoffs. Let's remember he has not played in 2 seasons.

Great point on Brooks vs. Hinrich. Hinrich has been useless offensively for several seasons now.


Great post! I would just say "take less 3's, and shoot the midrange". We can't have this kid driving much until the playoffs.

Screw the 1st or 2nd seed if it means Rose has to play more aggressive going to the hole in the regular season. Its just not worth it. Minute restrictions and mini restrictions with how he attacks in the regular season.

Im not foolish enough to think you can ever really change the ball player you are after so many years being successful with a certain style of play. But at least Derrick knows that every dunk and hard cut has a price on it. Just stay healthy while still being semi-aggressive. Still over half a season and playoffs to go. Baby steps yall.

[Kellogs4toniee]

I don't think he'll be taking those shots with regularity in meaningful games, let alone the playoffs dude.

As Dengness pointed out, have you seen Rose in his 3 best games, against hyped teams, and elite contemporaries at his position? He's performed, and played his best in those.

That's how he'll play when things matter. Derrick is kind of a show pony in that regard. He gets up as a competitor for the big names to prove himself.

I guess that's where we ultimately disagree. I don't see how you can say he is ok with jacking up threes during meaningful regular season games simply for practice and just believe he is going to not do that during meaningful games. We all love him to death here as a Chicago son but don't just assume you can read his mind.

A part of me really believes teams in the playoffs will dare him to shoot the 3 by giving him ridiculous space and it might hurt us. But that's my opinion and I guess time will tell.

[Dengness9]

Yea, ultimately that's what I figured my friend. He does not shy away from the big competition and he will step this all up in the playoffs.

I already touched this with Samurai, and it goes along with what you said. Over 5 threes a games is just not his game. Mid range, floaters, and drives are more like it.


3-4 3pt attempts a game would be better than the 5.2 or whatever it is.

If he is feeling it from 3, then by all means if they are falling shoot 5+ 3PA. But we havent seen that yet so.....

I think he'll hit some big 3's come the postseason. His game excels with that added weight on his shoulders. To be honest, right now there isnt much weight on Derrick. And that is a great thing for now.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think he's doing a few things with the high amount of 3-FGA

a) Working on his shot
b) Conserving his body for post season
c) Trying to hit his PPG averages, w/ more 3s while on minute restriction
d) Now, trying to get out of a shooting slump

Ultimately it truly doesn't bother me in meaningless regular season games. In his best games, against the best opponents he hasn't focused on that shot. Thought it was pretty obvious he's conserving his body in all the other games. It doesn't take a mind reader to come to that fairly logical conclusion. Especially given his recent injury history the past 3 years.

[Dengness9]

I guess that's where we ultimately disagree. I don't see how you can say he is ok with jacking up threes during meaningful regular season games simply for practice and just believe he is going to not do that during meaningful games. We all love him to death here as a Chicago son but don't just assume you can read his mind.

A part of me really believes teams in the playoffs will dare him to shoot the 3 by giving him ridiculous space and it might hurt us. But that's my opinion and I guess time will tell.


Valid concern. No doubt. I just think playoff teams can dare him to shoot the 3 all they want. Come playoff time Derrick Rose will be going for broke to win it all. He'll be able to get his shot wherever he wants it on most possesions and i think he will be attacking the rim much more at that time.

[miggyme1]

You didn't watch him circa 2010 - 2012 pre ACL tear then.

ok sure i didnt. show me proof of a above average midrange game and long range game besides the mvp. dude has always been streaky. if he had of been more refined i truly believe they would have beat the heat in 2011

[Dengness9]

I think he's doing a few things with the high amount of 3-FGA

a) Working on his shot
b) Conserving his body for post season
c) Trying to hit his PPG averages, w/ more 3s while on minute restriction
d) Now, trying to get out of a shooting slump

Ultimately it truly doesn't bother me in meaningless regular season games. In his best games, against the best opponents he hasn't focused on that shot. Thought it was pretty obvious he's conserving his body in all the other games. It doesn't take a mind reader to come to that fairly logical conclusion. Especially given his recent injury history the past 3 years.


I dont think ive ever seen a blatant body preservation play style then ive seen by Derrick this season. AND ITS SO NECESSARY.

[beastee]

No its not. Cmon Nate, youre better than that. It's a good and necessary convo to have.
This season he really hasn't been. I don't know what went up this dude's butt lately. Making Bulls fans look bitter all the time.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I dont think ive ever seen a blatant body preservation play style then ive seen by Derrick this season. AND ITS SO NECESSARY.
LeBron looks like he might be doing it too on a smaller scale. Or he truly just left his prime at the end of last season. But yea, two major knee injuries to a very athletic reliant ... super aggressive type of game will do that to you. Like I said, it's not bothering me. It's better in the long run.

[Dengness9]

ok sure i didnt. show me proof of a above average midrange game and long range game besides the mvp. dude has always been streaky. if he had of been more refined i truly believe they would have beat the heat in 2011


Im not attacking you so understand i come in peace. Somebody is going to have to find it, but for those 2-3 years there is evidence by percentage that he had one of the best midrange jumpers in the game. Somebody find it and post it plz. Ive seen it on ISH in the past.

And it doesn't matter what Derrick does in 2011, they weren't beating Miami. Lebron got to guard Rose while the Bulls had no true secondary ball handler or go to scorer to make the Heat pay. Lebron had Bosh and Wade to aid him while Rose had no other true all-stars. Deng was decent but has never been able to consistently break someone down and get a bucket. Dont even get me started on Bogans or Boozer.

[mehyaM24]

he isn't the same which is WHY i've maintained, butler will likely be that franchise player - a fan favorite, who the bulls should re-sign and offer the max to.

rose doesn't have the right mix of skills and athleticism - and because of that, he's no longer in the class of the cp3, westbrook, and steph curry and maybe even john wall. you could make the case lillard and kyrie are better as well.

how the mighty have fallen....

[miggyme1]

Im not attacking you so understand i come in peace. Somebody is going to have to find it, but for those 2-3 years there is evidence by percentage that he had one of the best midrange jumpers in the game. Somebody find it and post it plz. Ive seen it on ISH in the past.

And it doesn't matter what Derrick does in 2011, they weren't beating Miami. Lebron got to guard Rose while the Bulls had no true secondary ball handler or go to scorer to make the Heat pay. Lebron had Bosh and Wade to aid him while Rose had no other true all-stars. Deng was decent but has never been able to consistently break someone down and get a bucket. Dont even get me started on Bogans or Boozer.


u dont blow out the miami heat in game one and then go from suddenly having NO SHOT to win that series...so sorry i dont agree with you. YES they lost the next four games but its because of what i said about rose not being a refined player. what do u mean the bulls had no other ball handlers? they had lucas and cj watson...not top tier players but very capable ball handlers..if roses's game was refined he could have easily moved to sg during that series and played off ball while watson or lucas ran the point. its easy to trap and guard someone when they are the main ball handler....thats common knowledge.

rose shot UNDER 40 percent during the whole entire playoffs that year...so please show me where is this above average mid range and long range game you guys speak of. PLEASE show me..he shot below 30 percent from three...again PLEASE show me. again this is coming from a big drose fan...but im assuming you guys are from chicago and are biased but cmon dude has never been a refined player.

[hawksdogsbraves]

he isn't the same which is WHY i've maintained, butler will likely be that franchise player - a fan favorite, who the bulls should re-sign and offer the max to.

rose doesn't have the right mix of skills and athleticism - and because of that, he's no longer in the class of the cp3, westbrook, and steph curry and maybe even john wall. you could make the case lillard and kyrie are better as well.

how the mighty have fallen....

It's hard to say because he's still working his way back, but if you're just talking about this season he has no argument whatsoever to be ranked above those guys.

Teague, Lowry, Conley, Rondo, and Lawson have all been significantly better as well.

[BlazerRed]

The problem is he's settling for too many bad shots. I think he's still nervous to really push himself and drive to the basket like he used to in fear of re injury. I guess it's a mental barrier he's going to have to crack to get back to his MVP self.

[Pointguard]

Saying the Bulls are winning ignores the small margin of error among the top East teams. The Bulls currently are on pace for 58 wins--and are in 3rd place...You can't plan on shooting 25% on 20 shots and assume you will manage to do enough to win every time...if this persists, it could come back to haunt us in a few games.
Do you really think the plan is to shoot 25%???

They are daring Rose to shoot, by nature he is going to respond with what he knows he can do. Rose is a lion, he's not going to retreat to a limited style of play or limited mentality. And yeah, the best way to get back to himself is to be himself. It might cost a few games. But its better to attempt to right the ship thru work.


I simply have never been a fan of "gunning it" and taking 20-25 shots when your stroke is off, especially on a team with offensive talent like these Bulls or the Lakers when Kobe was doing the same a few years ago. These are NBA games. If you want to practice on your 26% three point percentage do it during practice and at your gym...he is not going to see a significant jump in his three point shot within the season. Take less 3's, drive more and then work on it each day over the summer.
When your shot is flat, you can try to shoot out of it. Its not natural to be flat, and the whole team goes flat in home games. But you can wake up one day and it be on like crazy. But you can only find that out by working it out. Way too early to change course now.

If he isn't getting the lift then he might have to rest.

My main point is I would like to see him get to the point where he does this, but at a decent to good efficiency the entire game so we win games in which we should be soundly winning with our roster. I am happy the comments so far validate this type of response. Shoot less threes, drive more, dont settle for too many jumpers, etc.

Don't get so defensive? As a fan you have the right to be extremely critical of your team.
He's got to get there, that's ok. We can't cut corners. He has to build to get there. I think he's the big Lion on the team. He's shown that he's different than he was two weeks ago. He's one of the very few players in the league that took over three games in the last two weeks. He's had a couple of bad games and the pride should hang their heads and he should adjust his thinking and the way he plays??? And this is without it coming at any price win/loss wise. But because you perceive it to be too close for comfort?

[Pointguard]

u dont blow out the miami heat in game one and then go from suddenly having NO SHOT to win that series...so sorry i dont agree with you. YES they lost the next four games but its because of what i said about rose not being a refined player. what do u mean the bulls had no other ball handlers? they had lucas and cj watson...not top tier players but very capable ball handlers..if roses's game was refined he could have easily moved to sg during that series and played off ball while watson or lucas ran the point. its easy to trap and guard someone when they are the main ball handler....thats common knowledge.
This isn't common knowledge at all. Rose played Wade well but he can't do it the whole game. Wade would have totally killed Watson. Do you know who the coach was in 2011? He was first year coach control freak and you are suggesting things that weren't in his universe.


rose shot UNDER 40 percent during the whole entire playoffs that year...so please show me where is this above average mid range and long range game you guys speak of. PLEASE show me..he shot below 30 percent from three...again PLEASE show me. again this is coming from a big drose fan...but im assuming you guys are from chicago and are biased but cmon dude has never been a refined player.
Name me a player in the history of the game, whose game was refined at 22??? And we are biased? Rose won two series on his back. His goal those series wasn't efficiency either.

When Rose had help offensively he shot 49% in the closest playoff series ever, which was also his rookie year. He shot over 50% from 2 point land. Then the next year with Lebron on him sometimes he shot 46% and 27ppg. But he had shooters and guys who could make shots. And only a fool would think his game was more refined those years than in 2011. Stop hypnotizing yourself with stats. Your eyes should work better than they do.

[eliteballer]

It's going to take Rose a whole season of consistently playing NBA basketball to get back to where he was.

[miggyme1]

This isn't common knowledge at all. Rose played Wade well but he can't do it the whole game. Wade would have totally killed Watson. Do you know who the coach was in 2011? He was first year coach control freak and you are suggesting things that weren't in his universe.

Name me a player in the history of the game, whose game was refined at 22??? And we are biased? Rose won two series on his back. His goal those series wasn't efficiency either.

When Rose had help offensively he shot 49% in the closest playoff series ever, which was also his rookie year. He shot over 50% from 2 point land. Then the next year with Lebron on him sometimes he shot 46% and 27ppg. But he had shooters and guys who could make shots. And only a fool would think his game was more refined those years than in 2011. Stop hypnotizing yourself with stats. Your eyes should work better than they do.

when rose had help? u mean when rose was a rookie and ben gordon was the main guy? ok. and i never said his game was refined kid...can u not read??...i said HIS GAME HAS NEVER BEEN REFINED....hope caps helps.:facepalm :facepalm


again like i said...for the WHOLE 2011 playoffs he shot UNDER 40 percent and UNDER 30 percent from three.....so where is this above aveage midrange and long range game you guys speak of.

its like calling someone the best three point shooter in the league and their percentage is under 20 percent....but HEY they've taken the most 3 point shots and made the most.smh.....hope yall trolling.

[97 bulls]

I think Rose is just extremely cautious. And thus its reflected in his shot selection.

What Rose needs is a post game. That way he doesnt take the beating and hard fouls hed take attacking the basket.

[Pointguard]

when rose had help? u mean when rose was a rookie and ben gordon was the main guy? ok. and i never said his game was refined kid...can u not read??...i said HIS GAME HAS NEVER BEEN REFINED....hope caps helps.:facepalm :facepalm

Don't punk out now. You said his game wasn't refined and then you used shooting percentage as your justification. I showed the flaw in that. Rose was the best player on that team in the playoffs. Rose was a better all around player and when Rose played well they won. Ben was just a shooter and couldn't control games.



again like i said...for the WHOLE 2011 playoffs he shot UNDER 40 percent and UNDER 30 percent from three.....so where is this above aveage midrange and long range game you guys speak of.
He dominated the first two series by breaking down their defense. The shooting percentage had them winning much more than they were losing. You are hypnotizing yourself with stats. And it was obvious that he won two series on his offensive attack. Refined and shooting percentages is not superior to knowing how to win and winning.



its like calling someone the best three point shooter in the league and their percentage is under 20 percent....but HEY they've taken the most 3 point shots and made the most.smh.....hope yall trolling.

What was Robert Horry's 3 point shooting average? Why the hell care?

[stevieming]

Kellogs! Good to hear from you my dude.


In just two pages much has already been said concerning your OP.

Ill try not to beat a dead horse.

I think Derrick Rose is obsessed with just making it to the playoffs with his body intact.

Look at the BIG games hes had this year.....

Portland, Toronto, @Washington. 3 games against 3 top dog teams with top PG's at the helm.... coincidence? Absolutely not.

At this point in Rose's career, after missing 3 straight playoffs, he only has looked MVP form 3 times because those were the only 3 times all season the spotlight has been on him and his matchup against the other PG.

If he has something to prove, he plays like a beast. And I understand Bulls fans or bball fans in general having a problem with that approach.

I personally love it. Yes its annoying at times seeing him shoot awfully and take awful shots, but I dont care if he averages 15-17ppg on 40% if it means he makes it to the playoffs healthy.

WHEN IT COMES TO THESE BULLS, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS RIGHT NOW BESIDES KEEPING OUR PLAYERS HEALTHY(ish).

I hope Derrick doesnt make the all star team this year. I want him to have the week off. I also want to see him go through not being an "all-star" in this league, I think it will make him hungrier and more determined.

Rose has shown me enough through 20-25 games that he still has it when it really matters. He's been ridiculously clutch in the 4th this year and that's very promising for a team that already has Buckets and Pau who can get a bucket in the crunch as well.

Last thing i will say......the 3 pointers. He needs to cut down on so many bad 3's like everyone else and their mother is saying. What he needs to do, is take a few less 3's a game and trade those in for mid range jumpers.

He's a fabulous mid range shooter and float shooter. He can still preserve his knees, take an extra cross dribble or hesitation, and knock down the mid range shot with a MUCH higher percentage than those 3's.

Anyone ever notice how god awful Rose's first 3pt attempt in every game has been? They are the definition of BRICKS.

All that said, Rose will be fine, he finally has a team w/ little to no weakness around him. This is the Bulls year if there ever was one post Jordan era.

I couldn't agree more with Drose shirking away from physical contact in the regular season and saving himself.....it's very clear.

Even in big time PG match ups, he steps up on the offense but still doesn't play physical D, in terms of jumping and challenging the shots, powering through screens....he just back pedals...

But, he's still got that special quality of a ex MVP.....if the bulls reach POs all healthy, I've got money on them coming out of the East with Rose taking them there...

I don't have a problem with him getting his shots up now, all part of the learning process. Dude had two knee ops, not played properly for years....years!!! Not a few months, years!!

He'll step up in the playoffs and will be even better next year if he is injury free.

[themurph]

It's going to take Rose a whole season of consistently playing NBA basketball to get back to where he was.


The smartest post in this thread^^^^^

[miggyme1]

Don't punk out now. You said his game wasn't refined and then you used shooting percentage as your justification. I showed the flaw in that. Rose was the best player on that team in the playoffs. Rose was a better all around player and when Rose played well they won. Ben was just a shooter and couldn't control games.


He dominated the first two series by breaking down their defense. The shooting percentage had them winning much more than they were losing. You are hypnotizing yourself with stats. And it was obvious that he won two series on his offensive attack. Refined and shooting percentages is not superior to knowing how to win and winning.



What was Robert Horry's 3 point shooting average? Why the hell care?


they dont go to the playoffs without ben gordon or john salmons. u keep downplaying that team like it was a team full of scrubs....joakim was having his breakout year that year...still had kirk hinrich....wait........hold on....y am i debating with a knicks fan?

anyway... you still havent showed me an above average midrange or long range game from rose at anytime from his rookie year to now....so ill assume u cant.

second....why you keep bringing up his rookie year when its clear it wasnt his best season right? ok...

third.....i clearly said "HIS GAME HAS NEVER BEEN REFINED...IF HIS GAME ISNT REFINED NOW...WHICH IT ISNT....HOW COULD IT HAVE BEEN REFINED BEFORE???

but this is insidehoops so ill assume you either an idiot or a troll and ill leave it at that

[I<3NBA]

He's just apprehensive and not playing like he used to - which was recklessly. and that's a good thing. he really needs to start practicing those threes and midrange.

he should keep shooting them.

once he starts draining them consistently the Bulls will be unstoppable. and he will be virtually unguardable.

[T_L_P]

It's gotten to the point now where Rose doesn't even need to have a top 5 impact on his team for them to win.

So far this season Butler has been far and away the Bulls' best player...and I personally think Gasol, Noah and Taj have been a lot better. Truthfully, I think Brooks has also done better. :confusedshrug:

Chicago fans should count themselves lucky. They are loaded.

[Kellogs4toniee]

It's gotten to the point now where Rose doesn't even need to have a top 5 impact on his team for them to win.

So far this season Butler has been far and away the Bulls' best player...and I personally think Gasol, Noah and Taj have been a lot better. Truthfully, I think Brooks has also done better. :confusedshrug:

Chicago fans should count themselves lucky. They are loaded.

Yes, i'm totally in win all mode this year. And I strongly believe Rose will continue to get back into the flow, get better, and step it up in the playoffs. Pretty much just praying for health now.

[nathanjizzle]

19 points and 9 assists

[Kellogs4toniee]

Good win tonight Wizards. You guys really came to play. Your bigs really did a good job against us... took us out of our great rebounding game. R. Butler had some timely shots, and your starters all played very consistently well.

Rose actually had a pretty decent game today, especially shooting wise when you compare to how he has been recently shooting. But that does not excuse not only the amount of threes he took today, but the type of threes. A good amount of those threes were just completely bad shots at the worst times to change momentum. Some bricked, some didn't even hit net. I liked his game today, aside from those threes he had a nice combination of driving and mid range shots.

Butler had a very off game, and Brooks carried us through much of the game. The first time our 2nd unit came on was actually really nice to see Moore and Snell get some great playing time, and they totally produced.

Well fought game.

[Dro]

Somebody else already said it........Its his knees....He's still scared....I've been telling y'all knee injuries aint no joke and the mental toughness you have to have to just forget that it happened is super hard.........I can't do it and thats why I don't ball anymore.....You're ALWAYS thinking about your knee possibly getting torn up, most of the time, there's not even any contact....

To the NBA players who have come back from torn acl's etc........they are a special kind of mentally tough players.....Those who have had numerous knee injuries like me can feel this......

Even though Rose still makes a very quick, explosive move sometimes, its still not nearly as much as he used to and its more calculated......

Everybody is not built to come back fully from tearing your knees up...I'm not talking sprains although thats painful...I mean torn acls, dislocated kneecaps, torn mcls, etc.....

He doesn't even look like he's jumping as high on his jump shot anymore because he's probably scared to even come down on someone's foot........Most players just sprain an ankle or something when they land on a dude's foot but for a person with bad knees, that easily turns into a blown out knee......

[Ncrazyballa]

Somebody else already said it........Its his knees....He's still scared....I've been telling y'all knee injuries aint no joke and the mental toughness you have to have to just forget that it happened is super hard.........I can't do it and thats why I don't ball anymore.....You're ALWAYS thinking about your knee possibly getting torn up, most of the time, there's not even any contact....

To the NBA players who have come back from torn acl's etc........they are a special kind of mentally tough players.....Those who have had numerous knee injuries like me can feel this......

Even though Rose still makes a very quick, explosive move sometimes, its still not nearly as much as he used to and its more calculated......

Everybody is not built to come back fully from tearing your knees up...I'm not talking sprains although thats painful...I mean torn acls, dislocated kneecaps, torn mcls, etc.....

He doesn't even look like he's jumping as high on his jump shot anymore because he's probably scared to even come down on someone's foot........Most players just sprain an ankle or something when they land on a dude's foot but for a person with bad knees, that easily turns into a blown out knee......

with time, he will eventually feel and forget that he had those injuries and play more aggressive. in the last 2 games he has looked more aggressive and harder driving the lane, even doing jump stops, something ive never seen him do since the first knee injury. Hell be a stud by the tail end of the season.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Somebody else already said it........Its his knees....He's still scared....I've been telling y'all knee injuries aint no joke and the mental toughness you have to have to just forget that it happened is super hard.........I can't do it and thats why I don't ball anymore.....You're ALWAYS thinking about your knee possibly getting torn up, most of the time, there's not even any contact....

To the NBA players who have come back from torn acl's etc........they are a special kind of mentally tough players.....Those who have had numerous knee injuries like me can feel this......

Even though Rose still makes a very quick, explosive move sometimes, its still not nearly as much as he used to and its more calculated......

Everybody is not built to come back fully from tearing your knees up...I'm not talking sprains although thats painful...I mean torn acls, dislocated kneecaps, torn mcls, etc.....

He doesn't even look like he's jumping as high on his jump shot anymore because he's probably scared to even come down on someone's foot........Most players just sprain an ankle or something when they land on a dude's foot but for a person with bad knees, that easily turns into a blown out knee......


Here is a post I posted in another thread just recently.


Him coming back from surgery and not wanting to drive does not excuse him to take over six threes a game when it is simply just not in his arsenal. He is just not a three point shooter, no matter how hard he has practiced it or claimed to have practiced it.

First, he takes them often at the worst moments that stifle an offense when he should be the floor general.

Two, half of the threes he takes is always so flat. His form is just not good. Why have the Bulls three point specialist trainers not worked with him harder. Or maybe they have? I don't know. All I know is I have seen people in the gym go lift hard on triceps for a hour or so and then go play pickup and have a smoother shot then his threes.

Those two points right there are the worst combination for someone to shoot threes : bad timing on when to shoot them and bad form.

He should stick with mid range games and pick and choosing his drives. That's it. It has been discussed in my other thread already where I mentioned being concerned about him. Shooting that many threes at the moment is simply not having a positive overall affect on the team.


Him being scared is not the main reason. It might be a factor, but he could very easily just do a simple 1-2 move, get into mid range area and take a mid range shot instead of go into Stephen Curry wannabe hero mode. He had plenty of drives toward the basket in todays game that was great, and he picked and chose them at the right opportune times. Not going for the three does not mean you go yolo on your knees and drive to the hoop each time. Use screens, use your good first step, get into mid range and then shoot.

I just don't buy the knee and mentality thing being the major factor for him taking threes. I honestly think he thinks he can take and make those threes consistently, so it is just a bad iq and decision making atm. Someone in the organization needs to talk to him, if they haven't already.

[Pointguard]

For some reason my response was deleted? So here it is again.

they dont go to the playoffs without ben gordon or john salmons. u keep downplaying that team like it was a team full of scrubs....joakim was having his breakout year that year...still had kirk hinrich....wait........
How could I keep downplaying something that I brought up passingly for the first time? It's our first time discussing this. Rose was obviously the best person on that team and the guy who changed Chicago's fortune at that time.



anyway... you still havent showed me an above average midrange or long range game from rose at anytime from his rookie year to now....so ill assume u cant.
He carried a team that experienced injuries like crazy to the best record in the league based on his game. It can't be average if he did that without finishers and shooters to help him out.


second....why you keep bringing up his rookie year when its clear it wasnt his best season right? ok...
To point out to you that using shooting percentage was related to him having shooters around him. 49% is way above average for a rookie PG.


third.....i clearly said "HIS GAME HAS NEVER BEEN REFINED...IF HIS GAME ISNT REFINED NOW...WHICH IT ISNT....HOW COULD IT HAVE BEEN REFINED BEFORE???

What is refined??? What is its intrinsic value??? Chris Paul was refined, probably doesn't get better than that, and I imagine you will say Westbrook isn't refined right? Who was the better player in their playoff matchup? Its just you going on about nonsense.

[Pointguard]

Him being scared is not the main reason. It might be a factor, but he could very easily just do a simple 1-2 move, get into mid range area and take a mid range shot instead of go into Stephen Curry wannabe hero mode. He had plenty of drives toward the basket in todays game that was great, and he picked and chose them at the right opportune times. Not going for the three does not mean you go yolo on your knees and drive to the hoop each time. Use screens, use your good first step, get into mid range and then shoot.

I just don't buy the knee and mentality thing being the major factor for him taking threes. I honestly think he thinks he can take and make those threes consistently, so it is just a bad iq and decision making atm. Someone in the organization needs to talk to him, if they haven't already.
Bad IQ, really. Wait, who am I talking to? You can find yourself the leader of the wrong side by the language you use. The better thought is that you sometimes panic. After this game, with Rose being the least of the culprits, I think you are just scapegoating. I said a while back that the Bulls come out flat quite a bit. Its a problem. No biggie that Butler, Gasol and Noah all had bad games tonight. It happens. If you got it out for Rose, blame him.

On the side of Thibes and Rose, Coaches tell you what aspect of the game they want you to develop before camp opens, then as the pre-season starts and they might reinforce it or take it away in camp. With a leader you are less likely to take it away. He might feel he owes Rose because he made his pro debut sweet and bailed out Thibes not having many offensive sets in his first year. Offensive minded coaches will usually tell you I need three 3's from you today... I don't know if Thibes does this or not but he more than likely tells Rose to just use his judgement. But all coaches, coach from game to game and make adjustments daily. Thibes isn't really shy or the type to fear a Kobe type A personality.

[dunksby]

I think he's doing a few things with the high amount of 3-FGA

a) Working on his shot
b) Conserving his body for post season
c) Trying to hit his PPG averages, w/ more 3s while on minute restriction
d) Now, trying to get out of a shooting slump

Ultimately it truly doesn't bother me in meaningless regular season games. In his best games, against the best opponents he hasn't focused on that shot. Thought it was pretty obvious he's conserving his body in all the other games. It doesn't take a mind reader to come to that fairly logical conclusion. Especially given his recent injury history the past 3 years.
This is very underrated post, can't say if you are trolling or serious :coleman:

[miggyme1]

For some reason my response was deleted? So here it is again.

How could I keep downplaying something that I brought up passingly for the first time? It's our first time discussing this. Rose was obviously the best person on that team and the guy who changed Chicago's fortune at that time.


He carried a team that experienced injuries like crazy to the best record in the league based on his game. It can't be average if he did that without finishers and shooters to help him out.

To point out to you that using shooting percentage was related to him having shooters around him. 49% is way above average for a rookie PG.
What is refined??? What is its intrinsic value??? Chris Paul was refined, probably doesn't get better than that, and I imagine you will say Westbrook isn't refined right? Who was the better player in their playoff matchup? Its just you going on about nonsense.



who had the better TEAM in their playoff matchup???? EXACTLY. NEXT

yea 49 percent is great for a rookie pg but did his percentage not drop every year after that including this year...on a talented team..DID IT NOT DROP EVERY YEAR?

rose is shooting under 30 percent THIS YEAR..but u keep bringing up his rookie season but im going on about nonsense...get outta troll..done conversing with you.smh

[Ncrazyballa]

they dont go to the playoffs without ben gordon or john salmons. u keep downplaying that team like it was a team full of scrubs....joakim was having his breakout year that year...still had kirk hinrich....wait........hold on....y am i debating with a knicks fan?

anyway... you still havent showed me an above average midrange or long range game from rose at anytime from his rookie year to now....so ill assume u cant.


it is a team full of scrubs, in 2007 they had a pretty terrible record 33-49 and that was the core group guys that rose played with since he was drafted. not to mention kirk, ben, salmons, deng, have all been traded since the beginning of roses 2nd year, and we have been elite since.

you dont know what you are talking about, you are just being critical. Rose is a clear example of why players that carry the offensive load cant have an effective fg percentage.
https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/0910chart_1152.jpg




















/miggyme1

NEXT.

[Pointguard]

Thanks Ncrazyballa, for the post above. But I doubt he'll understand your point.

who had the better TEAM in their playoff matchup???? EXACTLY. NEXT

yea 49 percent is great for a rookie pg but did his percentage not drop every year after that including this year...on a talented team..DID IT NOT DROP EVERY YEAR?
Wow, what is your problem with reading. How many times do I have to write this??? Rose game got much better year after year, please tell me you aren't this dense, but spacing, shooters, and role changed. When Iverson got Mello he shot 46% and this was with his game falling off some. Simple team spacing improved.

Rose's role had moved from fit in PG to take over game PG. Rose was one of the few players whose role was to consistently break down the defense first, score second while keeping an eye out for the pass, the whole team offense was predicated on that reality. Rose was the only player top ten in scoirng and assist. Rose and AI are among a very few number of players that ever could consistently push a game like that. If you push, or literally shove your game down the defenses throat, you are going to miss more but if your team has the best record, efficiency isn't your worry. Rose also slowed the game down and kept two 17ppg scorers happy.

Name me all the players you know that can insist that the defense play their game? By that I mean having unsuspecting defensive players moving over to triple team a player? Shaq, Magic, Jordan, AI and then the list gets very thin. His role was very different than Stephon Curry's role is this year.


rose is shooting under 30 percent THIS YEAR..but u keep bringing up his rookie season but im going on about nonsense...get outta troll..done conversing with you.smh
At first I just thought you didn't know basketball but this is just pathetic. You know he isn't shooting below 30%. I constantly have to repeat the same thing to you because you can't get a simple concept. I brought up his rookie season to show you how faulty your nonsense is.

[boozehound]

He's just apprehensive and not playing like he used to - which was recklessly. and that's a good thing. he really needs to start practicing those threes and midrange.

he should keep shooting them.

once he starts draining them consistently the Bulls will be unstoppable. and he will be virtually unguardable.
How many guards have significantly improved their shot this far into their career? The only one I can think of is JKidd.

Now, the sky is falling people are going too far, but Rose will never be the same player he was before the injury. I think part of it is youthful confidence. You dont know enough to know that you shouldnt be that good, type of thing. Once you get older and realize the game/life more, that confidence never comes back the same way.

[GimmeThat]

purely assuming on the fact that we are talking about at the finals stage.

if the Bulls were to face any West finals team.

they may either hit a wall and be eliminated in a 4-0 fashion
or if they can extend the game deep into 6 games and more.

Rose can still generate enough offense/burst in the second half.


I don't think he's going to be your 4th quarter take over guy anymore. But he's going to be consistently involved in most plays.

he's still elite enough where the opposing team really won't be allowed to have any lapses during possessions.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Bad IQ, really. Wait, who am I talking to? You can find yourself the leader of the wrong side by the language you use. The better thought is that you sometimes panic. After this game, with Rose being the least of the culprits, I think you are just scapegoating. I said a while back that the Bulls come out flat quite a bit. Its a problem. No biggie that Butler, Gasol and Noah all had bad games tonight. It happens. If you got it out for Rose, blame him.

On the side of Thibes and Rose, Coaches tell you what aspect of the game they want you to develop before camp opens, then as the pre-season starts and they might reinforce it or take it away in camp. With a leader you are less likely to take it away. He might feel he owes Rose because he made his pro debut sweet and bailed out Thibes not having many offensive sets in his first year. Offensive minded coaches will usually tell you I need three 3's from you today... I don't know if Thibes does this or not but he more than likely tells Rose to just use his judgement. But all coaches, coach from game to game and make adjustments daily. Thibes isn't really shy or the type to fear a Kobe type A personality.



Good win tonight Wizards. You guys really came to play. Your bigs really did a good job against us... took us out of our great rebounding game. R. Butler had some timely shots, and your starters all played very consistently well.

Rose actually had a pretty decent game today, especially shooting wise when you compare to how he has been recently shooting. But that does not excuse not only the amount of threes he took today, but the type of threes. A good amount of those threes were just completely bad shots at the worst times to change momentum. Some bricked, some didn't even hit net. I liked his game today, aside from those threes he had a nice combination of driving and mid range shots.

Butler had a very off game, and Brooks carried us through much of the game. The first time our 2nd unit came on was actually really nice to see Moore and Snell get some great playing time, and they totally produced.

Well fought game.

Directly above is my original post regarding yesterdays Wizards game in this thread. In this paragraph you can see the main points I was making:

1. Made it very clear Rose actually had a pretty decent game. Really really liked his balance of drives and shots, which is his bread and butter.
2. Players such as Butler had a bad game and loved how our second unit carried us alot of the night.
3. Gave alot of credit to a Wizards team that came to play, they played great.
4. Made a note that Rose should not be taking that many threes.

Where in there am I scapegoating him? Did anywhere in there did I say he was the reason we lost? :biggums:

Have you been reading my threads? I am very concerned with his # of three point attempts. That's it. Rose has been my favorite player since his first playoff game. As one of his biggest fans I am also one of his biggest critics. Everything I have mentioned in this thread should be a concern if you really are ONLY rooting for the Bulls. He should not be taking this many threes.

Sigh, I guess it really is time to just start realizing that you really are just a stan.

[miggyme1]

[QUOTE=Ncrazyballa]it is a team full of scrubs, in 2007 they had a pretty terrible record 33-49 and that was the core group guys that rose played with since he was drafted. not to mention kirk, ben, salmons, deng, have all been traded since the beginning of roses 2nd year, and we have been elite since.

you dont know what you are talking about, you are just being critical. Rose is a clear example of why players that carry the offensive load cant have an effective fg percentage.
https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/0910chart_1152.jpg


y are u bringing up 2007? was rose on that team?....NOPE.again irrelevant stats. NEXT

with rose in 2008 they won 8 more games...not that big of a leap....same talent tho right? ok....

bulls have been elite since when? last two seasons i wouldnt call elite....elite teams at least make the ecf...drose isnt even the best player on the bulls this year......so again..what is your argument? dont worry.......NEXT

[Ncrazyballa]

[QUOTE=Ncrazyballa]it is a team full of scrubs, in 2007 they had a pretty terrible record 33-49 and that was the core group guys that rose played with since he was drafted. not to mention kirk, ben, salmons, deng, have all been traded since the beginning of roses 2nd year, and we have been elite since.

you dont know what you are talking about, you are just being critical. Rose is a clear example of why players that carry the offensive load cant have an effective fg percentage.
https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/0910chart_1152.jpg


y are u bringing up 2007? was rose on that team?....NOPE.again irrelevant stats. NEXT

with rose in 2008 they won 8 more games...not that big of a leap....same talent tho right? ok....

bulls have been elite since when? last two seasons i wouldnt call elite....elite teams at least make the ecf...drose isnt even the best player on the bulls this year......so again..what is your argument? dont worry.......NEXT

you completely said nothing and made no points. try again. you even failed at even quoting properly.

[miggyme1]

[QUOTE=miggyme1]

you completely said nothing and made no points. try again. you even failed at even quoting properly.


no more stats? no more arguments? that figures.......NEXT

ANYBODY ELSE WANNA DEBATE

[Pointguard]

Directly above is my original post regarding yesterdays Wizards game in this thread. In this paragraph you can see the main points I was making:

1. Made it very clear Rose actually had a pretty decent game. Really really liked his balance of drives and shots, which is his bread and butter.
2. Players such as Butler had a bad game and loved how our second unit carried us alot of the night.
3. Gave alot of credit to a Wizards team that came to play, they played great.
4. Made a note that Rose should not be taking that many threes.

Where in there am I scapegoating him? Did anywhere in there did I say he was the reason we lost? :biggums:

Have you been reading my threads? I am very concerned with his # of three point attempts. That's it. Rose has been my favorite player since his first playoff game. As one of his biggest fans I am also one of his biggest critics. Everything I have mentioned in this thread should be a concern if you really are ONLY rooting for the Bulls. He should not be taking this many threes.

Sigh, I guess it really is time to just start realizing that you really are just a stan.
My prime issue is that I read your post and thought you were one of the haters. If you think he has a bad IQ why would you want him running your team. You should be talking about who to replace him with. You didn't need to write all of this. I made this plain in the post before this. And that low IQ thing is pejorative term used on the people from Southside and the like, even when they have great learning ability. Rose is pumping money and resources into those areas. And yeah, I'm that type of stan because I do the same in terms of help. Don't mean a thing to me when a hater talks like that. That's part of the game. But... you...

[GimmeThat]

My prime issue is that I read your post and thought you were one of the haters. If you think he has a bad IQ why would you want him running your team. You should be talking about who to replace him with. You didn't need to write all of this. I made this plain in the post before this. And that low IQ thing is pejorative term used on the people from Southside and the like, even when they have great learning ability. Rose is pumping money and resources into those areas. And yeah, I'm that type of stan because I do the same in terms of help. Don't mean a thing to me when a hater talks like that. That's part of the game. But... you...


Sports is a lot about setting goals and reaching them. And it appears that at times, science is trying to be its common denominator.

[Pointguard]

no more stats? no more arguments? that figures.......NEXT

ANYBODY ELSE WANNA DEBATE
You don't really debate. You just go off into your own world.

[Ncrazyballa]

[QUOTE=Ncrazyballa]


no more stats? no more arguments? that figures.......NEXT

ANYBODY ELSE WANNA DEBATE

what is there to argue when you had no valid rebuttal except sharing your opinions and not facts. LOL

[Kellogs4toniee]

My prime issue is that I read your post and thought you were one of the haters. If you think he has a bad IQ why would you want him running your team. You should be talking about who to replace him with. You didn't need to write all of this. I made this plain in the post before this. And that low IQ thing is pejorative term used on the people from Southside and the like, even when they have great learning ability. Rose is pumping money and resources into those areas. And yeah, I'm that type of stan because I do the same in terms of help. Don't mean a thing to me when a hater talks like that. That's part of the game. But... you...




I just don't buy the knee and mentality thing being the major factor for him taking threes. I honestly think he thinks he can take and make those threes consistently, so it is just a bad iq and decision making atm. Someone in the organization needs to talk to him, if they haven't already.

Regarding his threes man :facepalm My main complaint and it is def a fair one is he is taking too many threes. I'm saying his shot selection in regards to threes is bad decision making. Mentioning iq and you immediately try to bring this south side prejudice / assumption debate into this? Are you serious lol. Might want to take a break from these forums sometimes. Making you very cynical. That is so off topic.

I like those dots though man, really makes you mysterious. Like your in deep thought for your next post.

[RoseCity07]

I think he'll figure it out by the playoffs. Plus Bulls are better with Rose on the floor simply for his ability to make plays.

[Hotlantadude81]

Rose out again??

The dude looks more and more like a gimp everyday. Which is sad, but that's the way it appears to be.

[Kellogs4toniee]

I think he'll figure it out by the playoffs. Plus Bulls are better with Rose on the floor simply for his ability to make plays.

Yea, there is no doubt as a whole he makes us better especially in the 4th quarter. We need him to win a championship. Don't want to pull up direct quotes anymore, but I have mentioned many times in this thread I am confident he will figure out the concerns i mentioned by the playoffs.