Knicks trade Jr Smith and Shump to cavs

[percelloveknicks]

sorry fellas my computer wont copy and paste but i just got alert from bleacher report and probasketballtalk.com

[bluechox2]

im sorry, im glad we got rid of smiths contract, but why do we always get fleeced on every trade

[Rameek]

No one knows if its a fleece yet until we know what is being traded.

They havent even reported the whole trade yet reserve the opinion until the final report is in.

[smoovegittar]

Gonna be a different team next season. :applause:

[bluechox2]

No one knows if its a fleece yet until we know what is being traded.

They havent even reported the whole trade yet reserve the opinion until the final report is in.
i guess saving 20 million (after shareholders lost millions) was more important than getting the best deal possible

[franchize]

I'm no fan or JR Smith by any means, and Iman Shumpert's career seemed to be going in the wrong direction, but a 2019 draft pick is all you could yield? If the reports are true, that's embarrassing. Once again, the Knicks have no negotiation skills. I'm with Bluechox. We got the shitty end of the stick yet again. We got a few trade exceptions. F it. Phil has a clean slate this summer. Ball's in his court. No excuses now.

[Rameek]

What could you get for useless unwanted players on a losing squad with no potential in your system?

Shump was never good and had a 1 year and a 1/2 of great defense gets hurt never the same again. Never could get his offense together and once his defense went away what was he then?

JR is just no good. His peak was 6th man of the year why would you trade him after that kind of year?

[Da KO King]

The problem with the deal is its a cap move. No one has NY on their radar. Phil Jackson is an ego maniac that believes everyone wants to work with him.

[smoovegittar]

The problem with the deal is its a cap move. No one has NY on their radar. Phil Jackson is an ego maniac that believes everyone wants to work with him.
I think you're slightly under-estimating the calling card of money. It's what kept Melo away from the Bulls. I believe this trade was necessary. Cavs wanted Shump - Phil says "Well, you'll have to eat Smith's contract as well".

We'll see how brilliant our VP is next season. All we can do is hope.

[bluechox2]

DO the trade exceptions last 1 year from when the deal was made?

[knickscity]

I think you're slightly under-estimating the calling card of money. It's what kept Melo away from the Bulls. I believe this trade was necessary. Cavs wanted Shump - Phil says "Well, you'll have to eat Smith's contract as well".

We'll see how brilliant our VP is next season. All we can do is hope.
I agree with KO as well, top free agents arent looking to sign in NY, especially after this awful season.

The Bulls offered nearly 60 mil less, but a vastly better team. They made melo pick one...money or a chance to win. he made his choice.

Now I will say this is the second time of note that the Knicks have had alot of cap space, and obviously they bombed the first go around.

[Da KO King]

I think you're slightly under-estimating the calling card of money. It's what kept Melo away from the Bulls. I believe this trade was necessary. Cavs wanted Shump - Phil says "Well, you'll have to eat Smith's contract as well".

We'll see how brilliant our VP is next season. All we can do is hope.
The only way money draws anyone to the Knicks is if owners do away with "max deals" and players can get whatever they negotiate.

Anything short of that and the Knicks are only an option if a player's current team isn't interested.

[Scoooter]

Well that's a move that could be made.

Not much of a return though.

[el gringos]

Terrible trade. 2 of your top 4 players traded for nothing but to save money.


Don't let your hate of JR convince you of anything different.


Take jr out of the discussion. Knicks just traded Dion waiters for a future 2nd. You still love the trade?


Would have been bettr off paying some team to take amare or Calderon. The only other guys you can trade now is Carmelo or bargnani.


Getting completely bent over and helping the 2 teams that will prob play each other in the finals. At least Phil has the Benefit of a really dumb fan base to deal w. You guys prob love this trade. A trade like this will also hurt the teams fa plans. Nobody wants to go to a team that gives away players to save money.


Hope they can find a trade for Carmelo. Don't want to see him play another 4 years for a team that isn't trying to become a winner.

[Rameek]

The only way money draws anyone to the Knicks is if owners do away with "max deals" and players can get whatever they negotiate.

Anything short of that and the Knicks are only an option if a player's current team isn't interested.
I understand your sentiment but this couldnt be just a basketball move? JR is a terrible player Shump is still young but the thing that made him special he could no longer provide.

To start from scratch again is what is needed. This team didnt have a chance from the beginning. How can you lay blame at Phils feet for everything that happened to this team prior? The house needed to be cleaned out. No sense in keeping players who arent part of the future with no upside.

Obviously the concern is where does this team find talent after the season. Its quite concerning to me as well because you can not build a whole team through FA. Not only that this isnt projected to be a talent laden draft.

Even if this process takes 2 years I rather that than the overspend on crap that straps the team in luxury tax purgatory for years too come without any young developing talent in the cupboard.

[knickballer]

Kinda upset that we lost Shumpert. Not that I think he's a great player(far from that) and he was always vastly overrated by Knicks fans but he is a very good defender which could have been used in the future.

[Rameek]

Kinda upset that we lost Shumpert. Not that I think he's a great player(far from that) and he was always vastly overrated by Knicks fans but he is a very good defender which could have been used in the future.
He hasnt been a good defender in years

[smoovegittar]

Kinda upset that we lost Shumpert. Not that I think he's a great player(far from that) and he was always vastly overrated by Knicks fans but he is a very good defender which could have been used in the future.
I really liked the kid... but again, not the cerebral type of player Jackson desires. Kid let his emotions get the best of him in pressure situations. He'll be better off on a team that's more solid (dare I say Cavs are more solid after this?).

[franchize]

Seeing how the Nuggets got 2 1st round picks for Timofey Mozgov, who will be a FA this summer, I'm not buying that all we could get was a 2019 2nd round pick and an exception. Sorry. Spare me the Kool Aid. :confusedshrug: just sayin.

[Rameek]

Seeing how the Nuggets got 2 1st round picks for Timofey Mozgov, who will be a FA this summer, I'm not buying that all we could get was a 2019 2nd round pick and an exception. Sorry. Spare me the Kool Aid. :confusedshrug: just sayin.
Simply put they didnt give up their own 2 1st round picks they gave up Memphis and OKC picks.

Mosgov is needed and the picks werent going to be needed. They didnt have to take back an unwanted injured player, contract JR then Shumps still injured was the desirable piece. This was the price to pay for getting rid of JR. Do I think they could have gotten picks but honestly would they have been really glorified 2nd rounders anyway? They took the cap space for this year and next year instead of the picks.

[franchize]

Simply put they didnt give up their own 2 1st round picks they gave up Memphis and OKC picks.

Mosgov is needed and the picks werent going to be needed. They didnt have to take back an unwanted injured player, contract JR then Shumps still injured was the desirable piece. This was the price to pay for getting rid of JR. Do I think they could have gotten picks but honestly would they have been really glorified 2nd rounders anyway? They took the cap space for this year and next year instead of the picks.
A big man was needed. Mozgov is never "needed" by an NBA team lol I'm still not buying that you can't get more than a 2nd round pick 4 years from now for a former 6th man of the year and an expiring contract. Sorry. You gotta have better savvy than that. I'm pretty sure when the Knicks gets hosed on trades, opposing fans say to themselves "no way you can do that" and then the Knicks oblige. Nobody would have thought you could ever get a team dumb enough to trade a #1 for Bargnani but lo and behold lol. Knicks need to find that other team as dumb as them. Either way, like you said, it's done. Phil has his clean slate. MORE than enough cap space and new TV money probably will add to that.

[Rameek]

A big man was needed. Mozgov is never "needed" by an NBA team lol I'm still not buying that you can't get more than a 2nd round pick 4 years from now for a former 6th man of the year and an expiring contract. Sorry. You gotta have better savvy than that. I'm pretty sure when the Knicks gets hosed on trades, opposing fans say to themselves "no way you can do that" and then the Knicks oblige. Nobody would have thought you could ever get a team dumb enough to trade a #1 for Bargnani but lo and behold lol. Knicks need to find that other team as dumb as them. Either way, like you said, it's done. Phil has his clean slate. MORE than enough cap space and new TV money probably will add to that.
You're opinion that Moz wasnt needed but obviously he was because someone traded for him giving up 2 first.

I guess Knick fans value Jr more than the rest of the league but no one wanted him even after the 6th man award. Shump hasnt progressed either. When was the last time the Knicks had a hot commodity and was fleeced then I can see it.

[smoovegittar]

You're opinion that Moz wasnt needed but obviously he was because someone traded for him giving up 2 first.

I guess Knick fans value Jr more than the rest of the league but no one wanted him even after the 6th man award. Shump hasnt progressed either. When was the last time the Knicks had a hot commodity and was fleeced then I can see it.
That would be Ariza.

[bluechox2]

You're opinion that Moz wasnt needed but obviously he was because someone traded for him giving up 2 first.

I guess Knick fans value Jr more than the rest of the league but no one wanted him even after the 6th man award. Shump hasnt progressed either. When was the last time the Knicks had a hot commodity and was fleeced then I can see it.
maybe we do have players who lost their value...but lets take a look at denver for a quick sec

they took the house from us in the carmelo trade
the got afflalo for next to nothing (fournier and another 2nd round pick...both unproven at the time of trade), where if we had tried to get afllalo...we probably trade an arm and a leg
they trade mazgov for 2 first rounders ...not 1...but 2 for an expirer non the less..ibet if the knicks were in the same scenerio..we'd probably be begging for just 1 pick and end up with a 2nd rounder...again

[knickscity]

maybe we do have players who lost their value...but lets take a look at denver for a quick sec

they took the house from us in the carmelo trade
the got afflalo for next to nothing (fournier and another 2nd round pick...both unproven at the time of trade), where if we had tried to get afllalo...we probably trade an arm and a leg
they trade mazgov for 2 first rounders ...not 1...but 2 for an expirer non the less..ibet if the knicks were in the same scenerio..we'd probably be begging for just 1 pick and end up with a 2nd rounder...again
So why do you suspect that is because it seems every single trade we do we get the short end of the deal no matter who is in charge.

[Bano114]

I don't agree with all of the Shump hate in this thread, although I think it was absolutely necessary to trade him. The problem with a player like Shumpert and his public perception is that he is a product of the team. We know his strength: perimeter defense. He's athletic but not a strong offensive player.

On a team with poor offense and defense, his skills don't get a chance to standout because everything is a mess. He can't play ball the way that he specializes in because the team is so bad it requires more out of him, which he can't accomodate.

I think by going to a good basketball team like the Cavs, who have the scoring and interior size to overcome his flaws, we are going to see Shumpert start to shine again because he will be able to provide them the perimeter defense they need. People will start to see him for his strengths again now that he's on a good team.

[bluechox2]

So why do you suspect that is because it seems every single trade we do we get the short end of the deal no matter who is in charge.
league wide collusion against the knicks (lol)...or everyone knows that the knicks FO is trigger happy with any change...there is one constant through all of the management change....and it starts with a D

[Amigo]

The worst part? Now they'll play their hearts out, now that they left the Knicks. J.R. won't miss a 3 pointer against NY. It always happens. Just look at Tyson Chandler or Jamal Crawford. Effin-A. :wtf:

[smoovegittar]

The worst part? Now they'll play their hearts out, now that they left the Knicks. J.R. won't miss a 3 pointer against NY. It always happens. Just look at Tyson Chandler or Jamal Crawford. Effin-A. :wtf:
I take it you didn't watch J.R.'s 0-5 debut. Shump will hopefully find his game.

Crawford was a good scorer when he joined the Knicks. He didn't get much better upon leaving - just joined a better team.


I'm hoping once this team gets it's identity straight, we can put a lot of bad memories to bed.

[Amigo]

I take it you didn't watch J.R.'s 0-5 debut. Shump will hopefully find his game.

Crawford was a good scorer when he joined the Knicks. He didn't get much better upon leaving - just joined a better team.


I'm hoping once this team gets it's identity straight, we can put a lot of bad memories to bed.


Chandler?

[smoovegittar]

Chandler?
Disgruntled Chandler didn't show up for games last year... he would have improved on any above .500 team. Only reason he ended up in NY was $$$.

I'm not really disagreeing with you. Just thinking it was a strong statement. We won't miss any of these ex-Knicks in 2 years.

[knickscity]

Disgruntled Chandler didn't show up for games last year... he would have improved on any above .500 team. Only reason he ended up in NY was $$$.

I'm not really disagreeing with you. Just thinking it was a strong statement. We won't miss any of these ex-Knicks in 2 years.
Chandler actually took less to come here, GS offered more, but yeah money was a driving force.

[Rameek]

There has to be some kind of poison or curse on this team that its been an utter dysfunctional place that kills this team.

Without a doubt I think the players once they leave here will probably find a role on a team and find some success.

At this point there are only 2 players left from the last 3 regimes being Stat and Melo. If the poison continues and its not about talent then the handwriting on the wall.

[knickscity]

There has to be some kind of poison or curse on this team that its been an utter dysfunctional place that kills this team.

Without a doubt I think the players once they leave here will probably find a role on a team and find some success.

At this point there are only 2 players left from the last 3 regimes being Stat and Melo. If the poison continues and its not about talent then the handwriting on the wall.
This is rather odd that Amare is the most tenured Knick, now about to be Melo.

[smoovegittar]

This is rather odd that Amare is the most tenured Knick, now about to be Melo.

I think Dolan appreciates Amare's appeal and he was the first BIG signing in a while. Jimmy loves loyalty; look at Glen Sather. I like Amare as well, but that bloated contract has to go.

[Amigo]

There has to be some kind of poison or curse on this team that its been an utter dysfunctional place that kills this team.

Without a doubt I think the players once they leave here will probably find a role on a team and find some success.

At this point there are only 2 players left from the last 3 regimes being Stat and Melo. If the poison continues and its not about talent then the handwriting on the wall.

I totally agree. Well said.