Since getting LeBron, Cleveland has traded.... [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Nash

01-07-2015, 06:19 PM

Andrew Wiggins
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett

And THREE first round picks....

So much about LeBron being willing to grow with the young guys and shit, dude is straight SALVAGING their future cause he's only on a one year deal and they have to basically bow down to him. :oldlol:
and gotten back Love, Shumpert, JR and Mozgov to feel needs.

Wiggins is the only one that could bite them, but honestly, they had to do it for Love.

NattyPButter

01-07-2015, 06:20 PM

Andrew Wiggins
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett

And THREE first round picks....

So much about LeBron being willing to grow with the young guys and shit, dude is straight SALVAGING their future cause he's only on a one year deal and they have to basically bow down to him. :oldlol:

you're missing Zeller and Karasev who were also 1st round picks. I would never do such a thing for a player that's 30 and is on a 1 year contract

Droid101

01-07-2015, 06:20 PM

NattyPButter

01-07-2015, 06:22 PM

and gotten back Love, Shumpert, JR and Mozgov to feel needs.

Wiggins is the only one that could bite them, but honestly, they had to do it for Love.

if Love wanted to play with Lebron the Cavs should had waited until next year when he's a FA.

Rose'sACL

01-07-2015, 06:23 PM

Sounds familiar. Remember when they traded all their youth and picks for Ben Wallace and Wally Z? Or all their youth and picks for Jamison? Or all the other "win now" trades they made his first stint there?
did they get anyone of love's calibre before?

if Love wanted to play with Lebron the Cavs should had waited until next year when he's a FA.
So many teams keep building through draft.....this waiting and building thing has not worked for pretty much all the teams and it rarely ever works unless you have a coach and GM who command respect from superstars.

Droid101

01-07-2015, 06:24 PM

did they get anyone of love's calibre before?
No, but they also didn't trade away two number one draft picks to get him when they could have signed him outright the following summer for nothing.

fpliii

01-07-2015, 06:25 PM

Realistically, what's Cleveland's window with the current core?

Cocaine80s

01-07-2015, 06:26 PM

Realistically, what's Cleveland's window with the current core?
Probably 3-4 years

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:26 PM

Sounds familiar. Remember when they traded all their youth and picks for Ben Wallace and Wally Z? Or all their youth and picks for Jamison? Or all the other "win now" trades they made his first stint there?

This is why I can't respect any Cleveland fans who are fine with the things that have been going on since LeBron showed back up. You've seen this shit before and were in an uproar over it and are now happy that it's happening again? What?

Thing is LeBron hasn't really been getting a ton of superstar calls (aside from random games here and there) since that 2012 playoffs run where he made a joke of himself and the officials by flopping an assload in each game. So Cleveland doesn't even have the refs too much on their side, obviously won't have chemistry on their side, and overall doesn't appear to have health on their side either.

I just don't see why you'd give up so much in assets to go all in for what, the next 1-2 years?

I would have hung onto Wiggins and have held LeBron to his word of being willing to grow with the young team... That doesn't mean you panic in year one when things look rough.... Put me in Cleveland's shoes of being a losing franchise since LeBron left and you HAVE to start building towards something more sustainable than they currently have been...

Just my two cents.

DukeDelonte13

01-07-2015, 06:27 PM

Sounds familiar. Remember when they traded all their youth and picks for Ben Wallace and Wally Z? Or all their youth and picks for Jamison? Or all the other "win now" trades they made his first stint there?

Are you a f*cking moron?

Get back to me and tell me who we traded for Ben Wallace, Wally and Delonte

and then tell me who the the cavs traded for Jamison...

NattyPButter

01-07-2015, 06:27 PM

Realistically, what's Cleveland's window with the current core?

Shump can be gone by next year if someone bids to high for him in FA
JR can Leave in 2 years and same goes for Mozgov.
So they really don't have much time.

COnDEMnED

01-07-2015, 06:28 PM

Probably 3-4 years
Realistically 3 years is probably on the high end. I can't imagine how bad Lebron will be in 3 years. If he can't do it now, we know it isn't happening when Irving is the best player on the floor.

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:29 PM

Realistically, what's Cleveland's window with the current core?

Much shorter than it was when they had Wiggins and the additional assets that they've since traded.

Rose'sACL

01-07-2015, 06:30 PM

No, but they also didn't trade away two number one draft picks to get him when they could have signed him outright the following summer for nothing.
wiggins would probably be a good player by year 3. by that time lebron would be 33 and probably played more minutes than anyone since 00s began.
if they didn't get lebron then love wouldn't have come so they wouldn't have won in next 5 years either. after that may be and even that would have required kyrie to stay and trades.
winning a chip is everything. no one gives a fck if you reach 2nd round or conference finals if you can't win it all.

KyrieTheFuture

01-07-2015, 06:31 PM

Andrew Wiggins
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett

And THREE first round picks....

So much about LeBron being willing to grow with the young guys and shit, dude is straight SALVAGING their future cause he's only on a one year deal and they have to basically bow down to him. :oldlol:
Wow you really have no clue what this word means do you?

Hey Yo

01-07-2015, 06:32 PM

Sounds familiar. Remember when they traded all their youth and picks for Ben Wallace and Wally Z? Or all their youth and picks for Jamison? Or all the other "win now" trades they made his first stint there?
With a franchise like the Cavs, who have a long history of not attracting/signing above average to great UFA's, you have to make trades to bring in "proven" talent.

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:32 PM

Wow you really have no clue what this word means do you?

Shit, used the wrong word.

Rose'sACL

01-07-2015, 06:32 PM

Much shorter than it was when they had Wiggins and the additional assets that they've since traded.
no wonder you're a thunder fan.

Lebron23

01-07-2015, 06:33 PM

no wonder you're a thunder fan.

A team that will never win an NBA title with Brooks as their head coach.

fpliii

01-07-2015, 06:33 PM

So basically, if they're going to win a title, it's going to be either this year or next?

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:35 PM

So basically, if they're going to win a title, it's going to be either this year or next?

I guess thats the logic here.

This year looks like a "hell no" for me, unless they get as many calls as the Heat did during their 2012 run along with facing a West team in the Finals that has serious injury problems or something, and I just don't see that happening.

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:35 PM

A team that will never win an NBA title with Brooks as their head coach.

yeah unless they get lucky with opponent injuries pretty much.

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:37 PM

wiggins would probably be a good player by year 3. by that time lebron would be 33 and probably played more minutes than anyone since 00s began.
if they didn't get lebron then love wouldn't have come so they wouldn't have won in next 5 years either. after that may be and even that would have required kyrie to stay and trades.
winning a chip is everything. no one gives a fck if you reach 2nd round or conference finals if you can't win it all.

Good player by year three?

Wiggins is a good player now who is just now hitting his stride; he's played great in his last 10 games and is only going to keep getting better and better.

fpliii

01-07-2015, 06:40 PM

I guess thats the logic here.

This year looks like a "hell no" for me, unless they get as many calls as the Heat did during their 2012 run along with facing a West team in the Finals that has serious injury problems or something, and I just don't see that happening.
Also depends on how LeBron looks when he comes back. If he's the same player he was before this two week rest, they won't make it out of the East. I think the Bulls are legit.

I have no clue who is going to come out of the West, maybe Cleveland gets lucky and runs into a fluke team that gets hot, but there are 5-6 legitimate juggernauts in the our conference.

Hey Yo

01-07-2015, 06:43 PM

Good player by year three?

Wiggins is a good player now who is just now hitting his stride; he's played great in his last 10 games and is only going to keep getting better and better.
But you're one of those who say LeBron makes his teammates worse.

So what's the BFD that Wiggins isn't in Cleveland for LeBron to allegedly make worse??

Rose'sACL

01-07-2015, 06:44 PM

Good player by year three?

Wiggins is a good player now who is just now hitting his stride; he's played great in his last 10 games and is only going to keep getting better and better.
i have been watching NBA for a long time and have watched wiggins closely this year.
i am telling you, wiggins would not have been 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship calibre team till year 3. keep looking at stats while he is playing for wolves. he doesn't even have any pressure on him like a lot of 1st picks have had on them. you need to be lebron good to be 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship contender in your 1st or 2nd year and wiggins is not close to that.

Springsteen

01-07-2015, 06:45 PM

i have been watching NBA for a long time and have watched wiggins closely this year.
i am telling you, wiggins would not have been 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship calibre team till year 3. keep looking at stats while he is playing for wolves. he doesn't even have any pressure on him like a lot of 1st picks have had on them. you need to be lebron good to be 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship contender in your 1st or 2nd year and wiggins is not close to that.

Don't bother, he's just baiting for replies that fit his agenda. :facepalm

Rose'sACL

01-07-2015, 06:46 PM

Also depends on how LeBron looks when he comes back. If he's the same player he was before this two week rest, they won't make it out of the East. I think the Bulls are legit.

I have no clue who is going to come out of the West, maybe Cleveland gets lucky and runs into a fluke team that gets hot, but there are 5-6 legitimate juggernauts in the our conference.
believe me. if okc or spurs don't make the finals and cleveland somehow manages to win it all then this forum will call it a fluke. Even okc will be shitted all over by guys like russwest if they make the finals and lose to cavs.

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:47 PM

But you're one of those who say LeBron makes his teammates worse.

So what's the BFD that Wiggins isn't in Cleveland for LeBron to allegedly make worse??

I'm talking about what Cleveland should have done, not whats best for Wiggins.

russwest0

01-07-2015, 06:48 PM

i have been watching NBA for a long time and have watched wiggins closely this year.
i am telling you, wiggins would not have been 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship calibre team till year 3. keep looking at stats while he is playing for wolves. he doesn't even have any pressure on him like a lot of 1st picks have had on them. you need to be lebron good to be 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship contender in your 1st or 2nd year and wiggins is not close to that.

Alright, you're talking about him not yet being a 2nd or 3rd option on a championship caliber team OFFENSIVELY, but what about Cleveland's defense?

I don't know a team who has won it all with their three best players all being poor defenders.

fpliii

01-07-2015, 06:49 PM

believe me. if okc or spurs don't make the finals and cleveland somehow manages to win it all then this forum will call it a fluke. Even okc will be shitted all over by guys like russwest if they make the finals and lose to cavs.
Even if it's Golden State with Bogut 100%?

I can see that if it's Houston or the Clippers, since the board hates those teams and their stars irrationally.

Rose'sACL

01-07-2015, 06:49 PM

I'm talking about what Cleveland should have done, not whats best for Wiggins.
cleveland is doing what it should have done. unless key injuries occur, they have no excuses to lose to anyone other than may be bulls and memphis. they should beat every other team easily and if they don't then it would be a failure.

Nash

01-07-2015, 06:52 PM

Realistically, what's Cleveland's window with the current core?
as long as Lebron, Kyrie and Love is signed long term then a lot. Lebron is 30 and in a few and will probably still be elite 5 years from now. Kyrie is only 22 and Love is 26.

bluechox2

01-07-2015, 06:53 PM

kyrie is gonna have lebron by the balls in a few years, and lebrons gonna be crying to get out

Rose'sACL

01-07-2015, 06:54 PM

Even if it's Golden State with Bogut 100%?

I can see that if it's Houston or the Clippers, since the board hates those teams and their stars irrationally.
r u kidding me? this board will have weird theories like "was bogut playing hurt".."kerr is a rookie coach so it doesn't count".
this board has became really bad since January last year. it used to be shitty because of countless lakers/kobe fans but then 10 yr old lebron fans started spamming becuase they can't even troll and now it is a shitty battle between the 2.
Ask russwest which was his team and fav player before thunder. i am betting it was kobe and lakers.

fpliii

01-07-2015, 06:56 PM

as long as Lebron, Kyrie and Love is signed long term then a lot. Lebron is 30 and in a few and will probably still be elite 5 years from now. Kyrie is only 22 and Love is 26.
Are you anticipating that LeBron will look like he did last year after coming back from the two weeks off? If not, I don't know how that's reasonable. Box score stats still look pretty good I'm sure, but I don't think anybody can legitimately say he's been anywhere close to the player he was from 09 through 14.

PJR

01-07-2015, 06:57 PM

Bran-DNP (GMing)

KyrieTheFuture

01-07-2015, 07:00 PM

Alright, you're talking about him not yet being a 2nd or 3rd option on a championship caliber team OFFENSIVELY, but what about Cleveland's defense?

I don't know a team who has won it all with their three best players all being poor defenders.
Miami

SwishSquared

01-07-2015, 07:07 PM

No, but they also didn't trade away two number one draft picks to get him when they could have signed him outright the following summer for nothing.
They'd have to do a S&T in summer 2015 to get him since they wouldn't have the cap space to get him outright. From a salary-matching standpoint, Bennett + Haywood + Waiters would be enough $ to send out, but they'd have to be really careful not to go above the apron. Not to mention what Minnesota would demand in terms of picks or other players, such as Wiggins.

They may figure it out and and win at least one title before LBJ's time is up, but they'd def re-do certain aspects of the Love trade. Misuse of assets for sure.

One thing though- sometimes, if you're that desperate to win a ring, you mortgage the future to win now. Going all-in and it blowing up in your face is a mistake, but in some cases sitting back + hoping something pans (and having it not work out) still will end in the same result: failure. The obvious example is Riley throwing away 3 firsts and 4 seconds (or something like that) + Beasely on rookie deal (he busted but Riley gave up on him quickly) to get to 4 straight Finals and win 2 rings. Not saying it's the same situation b/c CLE had waaaay more assets compared to MIA in 2010 but the thinking is the same. Plus, CLE mishandled assets last year with the desperate Deng & Hawes trades. Trying to get vets to fast-track team success has always been on the table with this ownership.

I disagree with the amount of assets that CLE has surrendered in the past 6 months, as I feel they've overpaid for what they have received, but I can understand the win-now attitude.

Lebron23

01-07-2015, 07:20 PM

Bran-DNP (GMing)

Lebron for executive player of the year.

Verticality

01-07-2015, 07:36 PM

Andrew Wiggins
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett

And THREE first round picks....

So much about LeBron being willing to grow with the young guys and shit, dude is straight WRECKING their future cause he's only on a one year deal and they have to basically bow down to him. :oldlol:

What if all of this was revenge for Dan Gilbert's letter in 2010?

LEFT4DEAD

01-07-2015, 07:44 PM

Well, as a matter of fact, the Cavs' best chance to win it all, probably in their history, is right now. If they dont win it with Lebron on their team, they never will.
Those young talents are good players, no question. But they would be borderline playoff team and nothing more for the years to come if they have kept them.

RedBlackAttack

01-07-2015, 07:45 PM

Why are some people acting as though the last couple days have been bad for the Cavs?

They turned Dion Waiters and Memphis' first into Mozgov, Shumpert, JR Smith and a 2nd round pick.

I was a Dion fan and this still looks like a net win. We filled the major holes with a perimeter stopper and 3/D kind of player who should have better chemistry with LeBron/Kyrie and also obtained a legitimate center who can protect the rim and impact the game without having plays run for him. And, we replaced some of the bench scoring punch that we lost with Dion by acquiring Smith.

Personally, I think Griff has done a nice job, here. And, we still have some assets to use over the next couple years to improve the team.

A starting lineup of Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert, LeBron James, Kevin Love and Timofey Mozgov makes a ton of sense on paper. It also greatly strengthens the bench, since guys who've been starting like Marion and Miller can lean back into more comfortable roles.

The more I look at this roster, the more I like it.

Verticality

01-07-2015, 07:48 PM

Why are some people acting as though the last couple days have been bad for the Cavs?

It would be bad if LeBron bails. If he doesn't, it makes sense.

HOoopCityJones

01-07-2015, 07:53 PM

RedBlackAttack

01-07-2015, 07:56 PM

Didn't it make just as much sense when the Season started? Everyone was convinced they were a lock for the Finals.

I admit they definitely got better defensively with Shump and Mosgov , but JR is a down grade from Dion in my eyes. He's a legit cancer.
Of course JR Smith is a downgrade from Dion. We had to give up something of value to get something of value.

And, we needed perimeter and interior defense, along with chemistry/glue guys, more than we needed a scoring punch off the bench. JR Smith doesn't have enough weight on this team to be a cancer. If he causes problems, he'll be gone. He was the price we had to pay for getting Shumpert and the 1st rounder. Now that Mozgov has been acquired, it was a price worth paying, imo.

Also, this roster makes a lot more sense, from an Xs and Os standpoint, than it did at the start of the season. How Waiters fit was always a major question mark.

HOoopCityJones

01-07-2015, 07:59 PM

Of course JR Smith is a downgrade from Dion. We had to give up something of value to get something of value.

And, we needed perimeter and interior defense, along with chemistry/glue guys, more than we needed a scoring punch off the bench. JR Smith doesn't have enough weight on this team to be a cancer. If he causes problems, he'll be gone. He was the price we had to pay for getting Shumpert and the 1st rounder. Now that Mozgov has been acquired, it was a price worth paying, imo.

True.

They literally have everything they need. It's up to Lebron now to lead these guys. No more excuses.