Jason Kidd only player with 15,000 pts, 10,000 asts and 7,000 rebs...BEST PG EVER

[k0kakw0rld]

He is not only my favorite PG and player of al time but for me he is the definition of a true point guard. He can score when given the opportunity but what amazes me is his I.Q. And this is why he is coaching today. He understood the game very early and managed to improve his game in a lot of areas throughout his 19 year career. He was a 29% 3 pt shooter when he started his career. Ended reaching 40% at one point. That's work ethic.


Arguments to back me up.

He is third in triple double (107) behind Magic & Oscar
He is second in steals behind Stockton
He is second in all-time assists (12,091) behind only John Stockton (Who had Malone).
Kidd ranks third all-time behind sharpshooters Ray Allen and Reggie Miller in terms of three pointers made in a career. (The most impressive stats for me)
He never shot over 38% until 2008-2009 season. That's crazy if you ask me, to end up third all time.
All-NBA Defensive team nine times, four of which came as a member of the first team, with the other five garnering a second team honor.

Every year he went to a new team they improved. In his rookie season with the Dallas Mavericks (1994-95), he took a squad that was 13-69 the year before, and made them 23 games better. They finished that year with a 36-46 record. That impact.

Once he was traded to the Suns in the middle of the 1996-97 season, Phoenix finished 40-42. With Kidd on the team for a full year, they improved 16 games and finished with a 56-26 record.

Kidd did not have what Stockton (Malone) and Magic (KAJ, Worthy) had. He did a lot with what he had. (All top 30-40 players all time)

K-mart, Jefferson and buddies are not comparable to Malone or KAJ or Worthy. Are we all on the same page? :confusedshrug:

[Jlamb47]

Magic >

[Relinquish]

Nice use of Kobe stan logic in the OP. :applause:

[Akrazotile]

Hes crazy underrated by ringtard culture

[k0kakw0rld]

Magic >
Give Magic Kidd's roster, he ain't winning shit his rookie year. We can go on and on.

[k0kakw0rld]

Magic >
Kidd > Stockton > Magic

[juju151111]

Give Magic Kidd's roster, he ain't winning shit his rookie year. We can go on and on.
The only reason Kidd holds that record is Magic got aids.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Give Magic Kidd's roster, he ain't winning shit his rookie year. We can go on and on.

Imagine Kidd getting to play with a top 3-5 GOAT for almost his entire career along with a bunch of other HOF'ers.

:eek:

[Jlamb47]

Kidd > Stockton > Magic

Magic > Kidd on anyones list in the WORLD besides yours.......
Kidd played more seasons then Magic, nad if Magic played 15+ seasons he would be leading in all the categories, and having more trip dubs as well.
Magic was the most impactful PG in any era. GOAT PG

Il take Isiah Thomas > Kidd as well

[chocolatethunder]

He was awesome but he's not close to Magic. Stockton has 19,000 pts 15,000 assists and 3000 steals and was a much better shooter than Kidd. Kidd is really good and he's close but both of those guys are better for certain. Stockton had five consecutive years averaging more than 13 assists a game and averaged over 10 for his 19 seasons. Both were rarely hurt and Kidd is one of the best but his inability to shoot always hurt him. Later he could shoot the 3 and that was a help but he could have used some shooting in his prime, it would have made him that much better.

Kidd also clashed with players and coaches throughout his career and that's well documented.

[k0kakw0rld]

Magic > Kidd on anyones list in the WORLD besides yours.......
Kidd played more seasons then Magic, nad if Magic played 15+ seasons he would be leading in all the categories, and having more trip dubs as well.
Magic was the most impactful PG in any era. GOAT PG

Il take Isiah Thomas > Kidd as well
People wanna discredit LeBron for playing with 2 all stars and winning but Magic gets a pass? **** that bullcrap. The point is he had the career he had because of the organization., Pat Riley and HOfers. Most players ain't that lucky. Kidd was given a chance to play alongside with a top 30 player in Dirk. A mature and more experienced Dirk (And guess what? He won).

Stockton/Malone were fortunate to have each other but also MJ was there to deny them championships. Unlucky bastards.

[Real14]

Kidd became a bitch in the 2013 playoffs.

[Cone]

kidd only won a ring because he played with a top 15-20 player of all time who is the 2nd goat PF

[k0kakw0rld]

He was awesome but he's not close to Magic. Stockton has 19,000 pts 15,000 assists and 3000 steals and was a much better shooter than Kidd. Kidd is really good and he's close but both of those guys are better for certain. Stockton had five consecutive years averaging more than 13 assists a game and averaged over 10 for his 19 seasons. Both were rarely hurt and Kidd is one of the best but his inability to shoot always hurt him. Later he could shoot the 3 and that was a help but he could have used some shooting in his prime, it would have made him that much better.

Kidd also clashed with players and coaches throughout his career and that's well documented.

Impressive but his teammate is sitting at the #2 spot for most points ever scored in the league. That explains a lot. Kidd did not have that type of finisher playing with him. It was a different dynamic and it was amazing to watch him lead both Nets teams to back-to-back finals. Hated the Spurs and the Lakers cause Kidd couldn't win against them lol. Just like A.I. his roster was simply not enough. Lakers were just too dominant and the Spurs too.

[k0kakw0rld]

kidd only won a ring because he played with a top 15-20 player of all time who is the 2nd goat PF
Magic got drafted by a championship franchise. He was very talented, no denying that. But he played with the GOAT and a 6 time MVP. :pimp:

[Jlamb47]

Magic got drafted by a championship franchise. He was very talented, no denying that. But he played with the GOAT and a 6 time MVP. :pimp:

When Kareem got hurt in the Finals that didnt change anything for Magic Magic was a winner regardless of his teamates and was a impactful player.

[chocolatethunder]

Impressive but his teammate is sitting at the #2 spot for most points ever scored in the league. That explains a lot. Kidd did not have that type of finisher playing with him. It was a different dynamic and it was amazing to watch him lead both Nets teams to back-to-back finals. Hated the Spurs and the Lakers cause Kidd couldn't win against them lol. Just like A.I. his roster was simply not enough. Lakers were just too dominant and the Spurs too.
Does it? You don't think that Malone benefitted from being set up by the best setup guy in history? Even if you don't that doesn't explain away how Kidd was a poor shooter and how that impacted his game negatively or how Stockton got so many steals. What about the Jazz's roster makes you think that they had anywhere near enough to beat the Bulls? The Jazz weren't loaded with talent. Stockton made everyone who played with him look good. There was nothing wrong with those Nets rosters and there wasn't anything wrong with the Sixers' roster either. AI had a perfect team for him assembled around him. DPOY, SMOY and coach of the year. They were an awesome team. There's nothing wrong with losing to Shaq. No one was going to beat those teams.

[Marchesk]

Oscar 26,710 points, almost 10,000 assists, 7804 rebounds

[sportjames23]

Magic >

/thread

[Wade's Rings]

He is not only my favorite PG and player of al time but for me he is the definition of a true point guard. He can score when given the opportunity but what amazes me is his I.Q. And this is why he is coaching today. He understood the game very early and managed to improve his game in a lot of areas throughout his 19 year career. He was a 29% 3 pt shooter when he started his career. Ended reaching 40% at one point. That's work ethic.


Arguments to back me up.

He is third in triple double (107) behind Magic & Oscar
He is second in steals behind Stockton
He is second in all-time assists (12,091) behind only John Stockton (Who had Malone).
Kidd ranks third all-time behind sharpshooters Ray Allen and Reggie Miller in terms of three pointers made in a career. (The most impressive stats for me)
He never shot over 38% until 2008-2009 season. That's crazy if you ask me, to end up third all time.
All-NBA Defensive team nine times, four of which came as a member of the first team, with the other five garnering a second team honor.

Every year he went to a new team they improved. In his rookie season with the Dallas Mavericks (1994-95), he took a squad that was 13-69 the year before, and made them 23 games better. They finished that year with a 36-46 record. That impact.

Once he was traded to the Suns in the middle of the 1996-97 season, Phoenix finished 40-42. With Kidd on the team for a full year, they improved 16 games and finished with a 56-26 record.

Kidd did not have what Stockton (Malone) and Magic (KAJ, Worthy) had. He did a lot with what he had. (All top 30-40 players all time)

K-mart, Jefferson and buddies are not comparable to Malone or KAJ or Worthy. Are we all on the same page? :confusedshrug:


Kidd is my Favorite Point Guard ever and I would pick him over Magic if starting a Franchise. IMO if Rings and MVPs weren't weighed so much when measuring All-Time Greatness he would be argued as possibly the GOAT PG. My only knock against him is his horrid FG%.

[OnFire]

Maybe he is the 3rd best because in every category you listed he is behind someone else.

Like he is second in assists to Stockton.. but he has over 3000 assists less. And it isn't like he had a short career. Consider what that means. That means to pass John Stockton you would have to take Jason Kidds FIVE BEST ASSIST YEARS and DOUBLE his assists in those seasons.

[Wade's Rings]

When Kareem got hurt in the Finals that didnt change anything for Magic Magic was a winner regardless of his teamates and was a impactful player.

That was only 1 Game and for the first 5 Games of the series Kareem was carrying them.

[GimmeThat]

Hes up there because of his ability to gel well right away even With a mix of rookies and veterans.

His lack of success may contribute to how he projected along the inconsistency of his teammates. I would credit that as one of the main reason he isnt the goat pg.

[OnFire]

PLAYER A: 12.6/8.7/6.3/1.9 40% FG
PLAYER B: 19.5/11.2/7.2/1.9 52% FG
PLAYER C: 13.1/10.5/2.7/2.2 51.5% FG
PLAYER D : 19.2/9.3/3.6/1.9 45% FG


Which player you take for PG?

Gary Payton had slightly lower career numbers than these, shot 45%, but had a 5 - 7 year prime I would take him over Jason Kidd EASILY.

You remember Jason Kidd saving Dallas? Wasn't he a cancer at dallas and they got rid of him after 2 years?

[k0kakw0rld]

/thread
No argument get the **** out of my thread you peasant

[k0kakw0rld]

PLAYER A: 12.6/8.7/6.3/1.9 40% FG
PLAYER B: 19.5/11.2/7.2/1.9 52% FG
PLAYER C: 13.1/10.5/2.7/2.2 51.5% FG
PLAYER D : 19.2/9.3/3.6/1.9 45% FG


Which player you take for PG?

Gary Payton had slightly lower career numbers than these, shot 45%, but had a 5 - 7 year prime I would take him over Jason Kidd EASILY.

You remember Jason Kidd saving Dallas? Wasn't he a cancer at dallas and they got rid of him after 2 years?
Dallas werent going no where. When he got there, he won them 26 more games. fVck you smokin on?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Dumb thread comprised of longevity stats. As far as PURE point guards go, John Stockton is the best, as he gives you the all-around game plus the efficiency. Never had to have 'memorable' moments (although his game winning shot against Houston to get to the finals ranks pretty highly, by the way thats Houston w/ arguably a top 10 all time center, PF and SG), because he was too busy making Malone into the greatest PF possibly of all time...

Magic is second, albeit the best player of the group.

[tpols]

Best combo of everything outside scoring besides bill russell.. Like super Rondo but bigger and stronger and more creative.

[The Genius]

Dallas werent going no where. When he got there, he won them 26 more games. fVck you smokin on?

They certainly had the talent to make some noise before Toni Braxton killed the team.

[gigantes]

Kidd also clashed with players and coaches throughout his career and that's well documented.
wrong on both counts. kidd was actually one of the most supportive and cooperative teammates in the history of the game.

there is little evidence that he clashed with coaches. there is much evidence that when he'd had enough of a coach / GM / team, he either tried to effect change or asked out. kidd was the leveraging type, not the clashing type. he did not suffer fools and he did not waste time arguing with them.


OP-- you didn't list the biggest turn around of all, when he took the 2001 nets to double their previous win total (26 --> 52) and the NBA finals.

[chocolatethunder]

wrong on both counts. kidd was actually one of the most supportive and cooperative teammates in the history of the game.

there is little evidence that he clashed with coaches. there is much evidence that when he'd had enough of a coach / GM / team, he either tried to effect change or asked out. kidd was the leveraging type, not the clashing type. he did not suffer fools and he did not waste time arguing with them.


OP-- you didn't list the biggest turn around of all, when he took the 2001 nets to double their previous win total (26 --> 52) and the NBA finals.
Nah Kidd and Mash and JJ all clashed in Dallas

He was a total coach killer and that's well documented.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/jason-kidd-career-linked-multiple-coach-firings-article-1.1849723

[gigantes]

Nah Kidd and Mash and JJ all clashed in Dallas

He was a total coach killer and that's well documented.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/jason-kidd-career-linked-multiple-coach-firings-article-1.1849723
a bit before my time, but i guess i'll give you the first one. but cmon now... he was a rookie / 2nd-yr player when that went down.

"coach killer" is what i was referring to, more or less. and TBH, he was probably right to do so. byron scott for example has pretty much been a disaster everywhere. i see little support for the idea that it was him and not kidd who caused that nets team to turn in to a super team in the space of a single training camp.

kidd also made a play for more control in brooklyn just this summer and again he seems to have been right. the nets right now are a badly overpaid collection of non-fitting parts that are currently going nowhere. but he had last years team playing at a high level by the end of the season, and likely wanted more compatibility going forward. billy king / the russians have been dreadful as the front office.

brooklyn's loss, milwaukee's gain.

[bizil]

U have three types of PG's that can be great players:

- Pass first PG's who are also alpha dog level: Players such as Magic, Isiah, Big O, Payton, Frazier, Tiny, Nash, CP3

- Pass first PG's who aren't really alpha dog level: Stockton, Kidd,Cheeks, Rondo, Cousy, Mark Jackson

- Score first PG's or more combo style guards who pass well enough, although some of them could improve on their passing tendencies- Westbrook, Rose, Parker, Curry, Arenas, Lillard

Of the PG's who are pass first but aren't really alpha dogs, Kidd is the best PG of all time FLAT OUT peak wise! GOAT wise among those kind of PG's, the nod would go to Stockton or Kidd. In terms of a PG who combined great passing, great rebounding, and great defense, NOBODY was better than Kidd! If Kidd had that alpha dog level scoring ability, I think he would be the most complete PG of all time FLAT OUT! And in terms of peak value, would probably only take a backseat to Magic.

With all that said, can't give J Kidd the GOAT PG title. Or peak value wise u can't give it to him either. GOAT wise, I think he's in the top 6-7. Peak wise, I think he's clearly in the top 10 of all time. Magic, Isiah, and Big O I would take over him peak wise. But from there, Kidd's name HAS to come up soon. Dude was a walking triple double who could defend three positions. Not many PG's EVER can guard PG, SG, and SF's well.

[JohnFreeman]

Does he lead in DUIs?

[gigantes]

- Pass first PG's who aren't really alpha dog level: Stockton, Kidd,Cheeks, Rondo, Cousy, Mark Jackson
I question your perception of... maybe everything, I guess?

Jason Kidd is about as alpha - alpha as it gets in bball. The fact that he sugarcoated that with 'captain friendly' mode tends to... damn, nvm

[chocolatethunder]

I question your perception of... maybe everything, I guess?

Jason Kidd is about as alpha - alpha as it gets in bball. The fact that he sugarcoated that with 'captain friendly' mode tends to... damn, nvm
Calling Stockton not alpha is about as dumb as it gets too.

[k0kakw0rld]

Dumb thread comprised of longevity stats. As far as PURE point guards go, John Stockton is the best, as he gives you the all-around game plus the efficiency. Never had to have 'memorable' moments (although his game winning shot against Houston to get to the finals ranks pretty highly, by the way thats Houston w/ arguably a top 10 all time center, PF and SG), because he was too busy making Malone into the greatest PF possibly of all time...

Magic is second, albeit the best player of the group.
And Malone was too busy rewarding Stockton by putting the ball in the hoop.

The thing is if you wanna talk about efficiency and all that, Kidd was not a great shooter, ill give you that. But he managed to finish third all time in 3 pt with a respectable FG%, not great but respectable. The roster for me is very important, it affects your efficiency how When you a PG and your teammates are finishers there is a great chance that your assists go up.

[PsychoBe]

And Malone was too busy rewarding Stockton by putting the ball in the hoop.

The thing is if you wanna talk about efficiency and all that, Kidd was not a great shooter, ill give you that. But he managed to finish third all time in 3 pt with a respectable FG%, not great but respectable. The roster for me is very important, it affects your efficiency how When you a PG and your teammates are finishers there is a great chance that your assists go up.

why are you only focusing on stockton? how is kidd even remotely comparable to someone like magic?

[chocolatethunder]

why are you only focusing on stockton? how is kidd even remotely comparable to someone like magic?
He's not in any way.

[OnFire]

He has worse stats than the other PG's
He was a worse shooter
He had no titles
His career stats, his peak, and his prime are not as good as more than 1 other PG on the list.

He was a great player an one of the best ever but not in the top 3.

[houston]

top 5 pg that for sure

[gigantes]

Calling Stockton not alpha is about as dumb as it gets too.
uh... where did i say that? like... absolutely nowhere, right?

regardless, i'm sorry that your job seems to involve carrying jason kidd's jock strap for personal glory, but it's certainly not my fault, little bro.

cmon, cmon! one day you're going to grow up and make us all proud, no?

[bizil]

I question your perception of... maybe everything, I guess?

Jason Kidd is about as alpha - alpha as it gets in bball. The fact that he sugarcoated that with 'captain friendly' mode tends to... damn, nvm

For one when I say alpha I MEAN TAKEOVER SCORING ABILITY!! Kidd as great as he was wasn't a great scoring PG. Guys like Magic, Isiah, and Big O could score on a level on the elite scorers in basketball PERIOD!! They could takeover a game scoring NIGHT AFTER NIGHT if needed in a fashion Kidd didn't. But they were PASS FIRST PLAYERS though. And that's the beauty of guys like that. They can play puppet master like an elite pocket passer who CAN ALSO scramble for big yards. Basically, they are on that Steve Young, Elway, Rodgers kind of shit! Do u follow me? Probably not CAUSE U SLOW WHEN IT COMES TO THIS HOOPS SHIT!!

Im not saying Kidd sucked at scoring. But Magic, Big O, Isiah, or Clyde Frazier could give u 30 points and 15 assists MORE CONSISTENTLY if needed than Kidd. When u mention the phrase ALPHA DOG in basketball, IT MEANS a player who has supreme TAKEOVER SCORING ABILITY!! Kidd wasn't on that level in terms of scoring. If he was, HE WOULD BE REGARDED PEAK WISE as likely the 2nd best PG of all time!!

So when u step to me on this site, COME CORRECT!! And whoever mentioned Stockton as an alpha dog player IS MORE DELUSIONAL than YOUR ASS! Alpha dog in hoops means u can PUT YOUR STAMP on the game scoring in a dominant fashion!! U can carry your team scoring wise night after night if needed. Stockton and Kidd were NEVER ON THAT LEVEL of scoring, EVEN THOUGH they were good to very good scorers at the PG!!

When u look at guys like Magic, Big O, Isiah, Westbrook, Curry, Tiny, etc. AND THEN compare them to guys like Stockton or Kidd, U SHOULD KNOW WHAT THE HELL IM TALKING ABOUT!! But then again u are probably slow, so I shouldn't expect that high basketball acumen FROM U!!

[bizil]

Best combo of everything outside scoring besides bill russell.. Like super Rondo but bigger and stronger and more creative.

Right on the money! At that PG spot, Kidd combined everything EXCEPT SCORING better than any PG to ever do it. Rondo in today's game is the same but smaller! It can't get any more cut and dry than that! Rondo can make the claim he's arguably the best passing PG, for sure the best rebounding PG, and a great defender to boot. Kidd had that same claim back in his peak! And great shout out with Russell. He represented the same thing at the center position. Kidd's legend came from HIS FLOOR GAME! Magic or Isiah's legend came from FLOOR GAME PLUS ALPHA DOG SCORING!

[Shooter]

LeBron @
34k pts
9.3k ast
9.4k reb

Will he break into

35k, 10k, 10k

?!!!

[Axe]

LeBron @
34k pts
9.3k ast
9.4k reb

Will he break into

35k, 10k, 10k

?!!!
And the point of your post is?

[Whoah10115]

And the point of your post is?

Logical bump.

[msbutthurt]

Logical bump.

How do those basketballs taste?

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-81as21_2LDY/UZdBYY4BkxI/AAAAAAAAHqw/Q4OQfRwrEso/s640/Joakim+Noah+Lick.gif

[Shooter]

And the point of your post is?

What do you think? I'll give you a chance to exercise critical thinking.

[Axe]

What do you think? I'll give you a chance to exercise critical thinking.
Did you even think if it has a relation to the OP hmm?