Various verses from the Quran that are arguably pro violence against non-muslims

[MavsSuperFan]

All verses were taken from this online translation of the quran provided by USC
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php

Quran (2:191)


YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

The 3 versions of this verse can be very easily interrupted as sanctioning violence against non-muslims. Basically preventing the performance of islamic rituals is worse than murder according to the quran

Quran (2:193)

YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

Basically fight until everyone accepts islam. Very easily interrupted as sanctioning violence against non-muslims, even demanding it to convert non-Muslims to islam.

Quran (3:56)

YUSUFALI: "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
PICKTHAL: As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.
SHAKIR: Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers.

All 3 versions of the translation of this verse can very easily be interrupted as sanctioning violence against non-muslims.

Quran (2:216)

YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
PICKTHAL: Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.
SHAKIR: Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
Once again preaching violence

Quran (3:151)

YUSUFALI: Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
PICKTHAL: We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust
These verse teach that it is ok to terrorize non-muslims

Quran (4:95)

YUSUFALI: Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-
PICKTHAL: Those of the believers who sit still, other than those who have a (disabling) hurt, are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above the sedentary. Unto each Allah hath promised good, but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary;
SHAKIR: The holders back from among the believers, not having any injury, and those who strive hard in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal; Allah has made the strivers with their property and their persons to excel the holders back a (high) degree, and to each (class) Allah has promised good; and Allah shall grant to the strivers above the holders back a mighty reward:
Basically muslims that dont fight for islam are not true muslims
Seriously read these verses and tell me that the Quran is peaceful

Quran (5:33)

YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

Quran (8:12)

YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Do you guys consider decapitation and cutting off fingers violence?


Quran (61:10)

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?-
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom?
SHAKIR: O you who believe! shall I lead you to a merchandise which may deliver you from a painful chastisement?

Quran (61:4)

YUSUFALI: Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.
PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah loveth them who battle for His cause in ranks, as if they were a solid structure.
SHAKIR: Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall

Religion of peace doe

Quran (47:4)

YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

[Patrick Chewing]

Hail! Hail! Hail!


http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/1006/death_cult_of_islam.jpg

[Akrazotile]

i dunno u guys, if like jon stewart or rachel medows doesnt tell me its ok to say anything bad about teh muslims im too scared to do it on my own bc someone might called me racist and i wont be able to defend myself bc im not smart or articulate but i really want people to think im cool :cry:


i cant be a man without the left wing media, but they only want to make me a woman, but im ok with that because i cant disagree with them either way i'm too scared :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Cactus-Sack]

There are similar verses in the bible, what's your point? All religion is silly and anyone who believes these books are the literal word of god is a moron.

[MavsSuperFan]

There are similar verses in the bible, what's your point? All religion is silly and anyone who believes these books are the literal word of god is a moron.
agreed.

Just some people refuse to acknowledge these verses exist and pretend islam is the religion of peace.

Also virtually nobody takes Christianity seriously in 2015. As an atheist I have never encounter a christian that would get violent if you insulted Christianity.

There are muslims that will kill over insults to their religion and the prophet muhammad. Even the depiction of the image of the prophet is worthy of death to some muslims.

This kind of adherence and devout fervor is largely dead in modern Christianity. There are entire governments that currently exist that practice islamic law and will execute people who offend islamic sensibilities.

Its a false equivalence to equate the destructive nature of Islam and Christianity in 2015.

Besides the Vatican which nation is lead by Christianity?

[Cactus-Sack]

Everybody who's anybody knows that God is illiterate. It couldn't write a book to save its life.

*She

cis scum.

[Cactus-Sack]

agreed.

Just some people refuse to acknowledge these verses exist and pretend islam is the religion of peace.

Also virtually nobody takes Christianity seriously in 2015. As an atheist I have never encounter a christian that would get violent if you insulted Christianity.

There are muslims that will kill over insults to their religion and the prophet muhammad. Even the depiction of the image of the prophet is worthy of death to some muslims.

This kind of adherence and devout fervor is largely dead in modern Christianity. There are entire governments that currently exist that practice islamic law and will execute people who offend islamic sensibilities.

Its a false equivalence to equate the destructive nature of Islam and Christianity in 2015.

Besides the Vatican which nation is lead by Christianity?

I think that's more of a socio economic thing than anything more inherently violent in the religion. Also you have converts who join because they see islam as a means to express their hatred for the world.

[Cactus-Sack]

Dummies will fight over football games pretty sure they will fight over religion too

I'm gonna say most of the people fighting over football are Christian since atheists are tight and jews are timid

Say that to my face Goyim.

[Cactus-Sack]

On the internet, no one knows you're Bill Goldberg.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/711d32cba4606cff4008b4ac39c1735c/tumblr_mvlnhoCjcb1scglxgo1_500.jpg

[imdaman99]

Dummies will fight over football games pretty sure they will fight over religion too
This. I'd imagine if these retarded terrorists were Cowboys fans, they would kill any Packer fan they came across.

[MavsSuperFan]

I think that's more of a socio economic thing than anything more inherently violent in the religion. Also you have converts who join because they see islam as a means to express their hatred for the world.
Possible, but it fails to account for the numerous instances of successful muslims that turn towards violence. These people may often be described as otherwise pleasant.

Eg. engineers, doctors, university students pursuing advanced degrees and other successful professionals have abandoned successful lives and pursued Jihad.

Nothing really explains their circumstances other than a literal interpretation of the responsibilities of muslims to spread islam, by force if necessary. I mean if you think you will be damned if you dont fight for something, you will probably fight for that thing.

Obviously the vast majority of muslims dont take the Quran literally, but that doesnt excuse the evil teachings in the Quran. And it doesnt absolve the quran when people kill in the name of islam.


This. I'd imagine if these retarded terrorists were Cowboys fans, they would kill any Packer fan they came across.
Nothing in the cowboy fan book says to kill anyone

The Quran quite clearly advocates to use violence on and spread terror to non-muslims, until the submit to islam.

Eg. decapitation and the cutting of fingers of non-muslims.

[Cactus-Sack]

Possible, but it fails to account for the numerous instances of successful muslims that turn towards violence. These people may often be described as otherwise pleasant.

Eg. engineers, doctors, university students pursuing advanced degrees and other successful professionals have abandoned successful lives and pursued Jihad.

Nothing really explains their circumstances other than a literal interpretation of the responsibilities of muslims to spread islam, by force if necessary. I mean if you think you will be damned if you dont fight for something, you will probably fight for that thing.

Obviously the vast majority of muslims dont take the Quran literally, but that doesnt excuse the evil teachings in the Quran. And it doesnt absolve the quran when people kill in the name of islam.





I think a lot of that has to do with narcissistic injuries to the ego and attempts to overcompensate for what they perceive as their family's failure to act on their beliefs or stand up to a perceived injustice.

[imdaman99]

Do you honestly think those idiots are killing because 'that's what the Qur'an wants them to'? How naive are you? :oldlol:

They are bloodthirsty buffoons who are trying to take out their anger on others because they have been dealt a shitty hand in life, or are just war mongers. There is no jihad.

If they are killing because that's what the Qur'an tells them to, why are they ignoring everything else in the Qur'an? Do you honestly think that is all the Book says? :lol Do you need out of context verses that write stuff like 'show kindness, even if it is not shown to you'? :lol

[tomtucker]

There are similar verses in the bible, what's your point? All religion is silly and anyone who believes these books are the literal word of god is a moron.

where in the bible does it say you shall kill non-christians ?

[Cactus-Sack]

where in the bible does it say you shall kill non-christians ?


If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

^^^^

[No.45]

How does a religion like Islam spread?

Violence.

Big families.


Both of these coming into play, especially today where practicing contraception is the norm and widespread availability of abortion in the West.

Soon Islam will be an inevitable threat to freedom of religion.

[No.45]

Do you honestly think those idiots are killing because 'that's what the Qur'an wants them to'? How naive are you? :oldlol:

They are bloodthirsty buffoons who are trying to take out their anger on others because they have been dealt a shitty hand in life, or are just war mongers. There is no jihad.

If they are killing because that's what the Qur'an tells them to, why are they ignoring everything else in the Qur'an? Do you honestly think that is all the Book says? :lol Do you need out of context verses that write stuff like 'show kindness, even if it is not shown to you'? :lol

Islam is essentially voluntaristic. Meaning that their conception of God is someone who is above "reason"; God is above logic. He could make a circle into a square. He could, whenever, he wants, make 2+2=5.

This is the problem with Islam. Islam has no central authority. Scripture is interpreted however, depending on the school. That's why their is so many factions within Islam itself. Now imagine if they WERE united, how big of a problem that would be...

[iamgine]

Islam is essentially voluntaristic. Meaning that their conception of God is someone who is above "reason"; God is above logic. He could make a circle into a square. He could, whenever, he wants, make 2+2=5.


Such is the case with Christianity and many other religion.

[sweggeh]

Wow, this piece of information is so new. I have never heard of this before.

[Trollsmasher]

There are similar verses in the bible, what's your point? All religion is silly and anyone who believes these books are the literal word of god is a moron.
Bible is not an original, unaltered word of God

[MavsSuperFan]

I think a lot of that has to do with narcissistic injuries to the ego and attempts to overcompensate for what they perceive as their family's failure to act on their beliefs or stand up to a perceived injustice.
You dont think verses in the Quran that preach violence and other islamic literature in the Hadiths have any effect?

You really think Killing people for depicting the image of the Prophet Muhammad has nothing to do with islamic teachings?

That would be as ridiculous as saying the Spanish inquisition has no basis in Christianity

[MavsSuperFan]

Do you honestly think those idiots are killing because 'that's what the Qur'an wants them to'? How naive are you? :oldlol:

They are bloodthirsty buffoons who are trying to take out their anger on others because they have been dealt a shitty hand in life, or are just war mongers. There is no jihad.

If they are killing because that's what the Qur'an tells them to, why are they ignoring everything else in the Qur'an? Do you honestly think that is all the Book says? :lol Do you need out of context verses that write stuff like 'show kindness, even if it is not shown to you'? :lol

Do you honestly think those idiots are killing because 'that's what the Qur'an wants them to'? How naive are you? :oldlol:


I think you are very naive to believe it has no effect.

Look there is a difference between crimes muslims commit and crimes caused by an adherence to islamic teachings.

If a person who happened to be muslims murdered a shop keeper in an attempt to steal alcohol and bacon, obviously that has nothing to do with islam.

However you can draw a direct line between islamic teachings and killing for depicting the image of the Prophet Muhammad


They are bloodthirsty buffoons who are trying to take out their anger on others because they have been dealt a shitty hand in life, or are just war mongers. There is no jihad.

Very naive, and you ignore all of the cases of successful muslims abandoning successful lives to pursue jihad.

Eg. Osama Bin Laden -Bin Laden was born to the family of billionaire Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden in Saudi Arabia. He studied at university in the country until 1979, when he joined mujahideen forces in Pakistan fighting against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

Mohamed Atta - Atta studied architecture at Cairo University, graduating in 1990, and continued his studies in Hamburg, Germany at the Technical University of Hamburg.

There are a lot of other examples, you are being purposefully blind if you cant see some people (I acknowledge a very small percentage of 1.6 billion) take the Quran very seriously, and want to spread the quran via violence as it is how islam was primarily spread throughout history. Much the same as christianity the primary boarders of the islamic world were decided by military battles

Eastern europe, the middle east/near east/western asian, and northern africa are all regions that fell militarily to islamic armies, and thus today have significant islamic populations

The Battle of Talas resulted in the pyrrhic victory of the Abbasid Caliphate over tang dynasty china and is why islam is not common in eastern asia.

Western europe is not islamic primarily because of the Reconquista and the Battle of Vienna where christian forces managed to stop the ottoman empires westward expansion.


If they are killing because that's what the Qur'an tells them to, why are they ignoring everything else in the Qur'an? Do you honestly think that is all the Book says? :lol Do you need out of context verses that write stuff like 'show kindness, even if it is not shown to you'? :lol

Of course the Quran has verses that speak of kindness (in a lot of cases towards fellow muslims). that doesnt erase the fact that it preaches violence against non-muslims. Notice it is a very discriminatory piece of literature.

The bible also preaches both positive virtues and violence.
Are you going to tell me the bible has nothing to do with the spanish inquisition?

You take a preposterous position when you insist islamic teachings has nothing to do with killing cartoonists for drawing the prophet muhammad.

[NumberSix]

You dont think verses in the Quran that preach violence and other islamic literature in the Hadiths have any effect?

You really think Killing people for depicting the image of the Prophet Muhammad has nothing to do with islamic teachings?

That would be as ridiculous as saying the Spanish inquisition has no basis in Christianity
That was more about natives driving out foreigners or "occupiers" as they saw it. Christianity of course was part of the cultural identity that differentiated the natives from the conquerors, but it's not like Christianity has some kind of principle of religiously owned land or something. It was basically a textbook nationalist movement.

Imagine if the Native Americans somehow became powerful enough to "cleanse" America of non-natives. It wouldn't be because their religion/cultural traditions told them to. It would simply be a matter of taking back their native land.

[pauk]

http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Don+t+have+a+science+vs+religion+gif+sorry+_dd4b5e 30e536dc958bf63a391e10c973.gif

[imdaman99]

I think you are very naive to believe it has no effect.

Look there is a difference between crimes muslims commit and crimes caused by an adherence to islamic teachings.

If a person who happened to be muslims murdered a shop keeper in an attempt to steal alcohol and bacon, obviously that has nothing to do with islam.

However you can draw a direct line between islamic teachings and killing for depicting the image of the Prophet Muhammad



Very naive, and you ignore all of the cases of successful muslims abandoning successful lives to pursue jihad.

Eg. Osama Bin Laden -Bin Laden was born to the family of billionaire Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden in Saudi Arabia. He studied at university in the country until 1979, when he joined mujahideen forces in Pakistan fighting against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

Mohamed Atta - Atta studied architecture at Cairo University, graduating in 1990, and continued his studies in Hamburg, Germany at the Technical University of Hamburg.

There are a lot of other examples, you are being purposefully blind if you cant see some people (I acknowledge a very small percentage of 1.6 billion) take the Quran very seriously, and want to spread the quran via violence as it is how islam was primarily spread throughout history. Much the same as christianity the primary boarders of the islamic world were decided by military battles

Eastern europe, the middle east/near east/western asian, and northern africa are all regions that fell militarily to islamic armies, and thus today have significant islamic populations

The Battle of Talas resulted in the pyrrhic victory of the Abbasid Caliphate over tang dynasty china and is why islam is not common in eastern asia.

Western europe is not islamic primarily because of the Reconquista and the Battle of Vienna where christian forces managed to stop the ottoman empires westward expansion.



Of course the Quran has verses that speak of kindness (in a lot of cases towards fellow muslims). that doesnt erase the fact that it preaches violence against non-muslims. Notice it is a very discriminatory piece of literature.

The bible also preaches both positive virtues and violence.
Are you going to tell me the bible has nothing to do with the spanish inquisition?

You take a preposterous position when you insist islamic teachings has nothing to do with killing cartoonists for drawing the prophet muhammad.
I didn't mean it has literally no effect. I meant it's not as much as you would like to think, although you have stated it's a tiny % of the 1.6 billion. You get a few educated angry Wahhabis, and they can convince an uneducated mob of them into thinking taking even 1 Western life will mean they will go to heaven, with their 72 virgins. How ridiculous does that sound? Islam never has and never will support suicide bombing. There is a difference in sacrificing yourself (not suicide, but say going to war knowing you will definitely die due to the numbers) and killing yourself with a bomb hoping to kill as many people as you can. But guess what, they have convinced plenty of brainwashed individuals. I can agree with you there, I didn't mean it had 0 effect.

As for the part of muslims showing kindness to muslims, there is plenty of that in the Qur'an and it is needed because of the retarded Wahhabi, who kill more Muslims than anyone. It's needed in scriptures, but these misguided fcks don't care. Al-Qaeda and ISIS are 2 of many. It's not right, but I believe someone will come and fix these matters and expose them frauds. It might or might not be in our lifetimes.

I still disagree with you that Islamic teachings has much to do with the killings over a cartoon. Islam has taught me that I have a right to be offended, but I have no right in taking anyone's life over something like that. Agree to disagree.

[imdaman99]

Really bruh?

Why not just admit lots of people are brainwashed by a perverted version of islam?

Reasonable people know it doesn't reflect on all of Islam

But it's a bad look when you act like it's just coincidental.

Though of course you implied you would kick my ass if I spoke ill of Islam to your face sooooo...
Lots of people are definitely brainwashed. Most people are. You don't think you or I are brainwashed? :oldlol:
You can't reason with people that wanna attach bombs to their chests. I know I don't wanna try to.

And I would never kick your ass, you are in my top 10 favorite people on here!

[Jello]

I didn't mean it has literally no effect. I meant it's not as much as you would like to think, although you have stated it's a tiny % of the 1.6 billion. You get a few educated angry Wahhabis, and they can convince an uneducated mob of them into thinking taking even 1 Western life will mean they will go to heaven, with their 72 virgins. How ridiculous does that sound? Islam never has and never will support suicide bombing. There is a difference in sacrificing yourself (not suicide, but say going to war knowing you will definitely die due to the numbers) and killing yourself with a bomb hoping to kill as many people as you can. But guess what, they have convinced plenty of brainwashed individuals. I can agree with you there, I didn't mean it had 0 effect.

As for the part of muslims showing kindness to muslims, there is plenty of that in the Qur'an and it is needed because of the retarded Wahhabi, who kill more Muslims than anyone. It's needed in scriptures, but these misguided fcks don't care. Al-Qaeda and ISIS are 2 of many. It's not right, but I believe someone will come and fix these matters and expose them frauds. It might or might not be in our lifetimes.

I still disagree with you that Islamic teachings has much to do with the killings over a cartoon. Islam has taught me that I have a right to be offended, but I have no right in taking anyone's life over something like that. Agree to disagree.
"They aren't real muslims" It's the same logic the extremists use to justify killing other muslims. What is a muslim, christian, or any religious follower? Someone who professes to believe in a religion, jesus, Allah, whatever. So yes they are self professed muslims believing in the same god and religion you believe in. you must be an idiot if you think the attack is not religiously motivated when the attackers announced their motivation.

[MavsSuperFan]

That was more about natives driving out foreigners or "occupiers" as they saw it. Christianity of course was part of the cultural identity that differentiated the natives from the conquerors, but it's not like Christianity has some kind of principle of religiously owned land or something. It was basically a textbook nationalist movement.

Imagine if the Native Americans somehow became powerful enough to "cleanse" America of non-natives. It wouldn't be because their religion/cultural traditions told them to. It would simply be a matter of taking back their native land.
You define "basis in Christianity" far more narrowly than I do.

Ferdinand and Isabella intended it to maintain Catholic orthodoxy in their kingdoms and to replace the Medieval Inquisition, which was under Papal control.


It was basically a textbook nationalist movement.
Theoretically it would be possible to evict the Moors, and allow native Spanish people who converted to islam to keep the religion. So obviously the inquisition has a basis in Christianity.

The crusades, salem witch trials, etc are all events I feel it is fair to blame on Christianity.

Just like i think its fair to blame the Islamic State, Boko Haram, and various laws based on islamic teachings/principles present in countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, etc on islam.

[MavsSuperFan]

http://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Don+t+have+a+science+vs+religion+gif+sorry+_dd4b5e 30e536dc958bf63a391e10c973.gif
We agree Christianity has caused/inspired/been used to justify some terrible things in human history.

Unfortunately you are too biased/hypocritical to admit the same about islam.

[Cactus-Sack]

Bible is not an original, unaltered word of God

Correct, however most Christian's believe it to be so.

[Cactus-Sack]

You dont think verses in the Quran that preach violence and other islamic literature in the Hadiths have any effect?

You really think Killing people for depicting the image of the Prophet Muhammad has nothing to do with islamic teachings?

That would be as ridiculous as saying the Spanish inquisition has no basis in Christianity

Ofcourse I do, I just believe that the things I cited were the difference between the Educated hardliners who do nothing vs educated terrorists.

[MavsSuperFan]

I didn't mean it has literally no effect. I meant it's not as much as you would like to think, although you have stated it's a tiny % of the 1.6 billion. You get a few educated angry Wahhabis, and they can convince an uneducated mob of them into thinking taking even 1 Western life will mean they will go to heaven, with their 72 virgins. How ridiculous does that sound? Islam never has and never will support suicide bombing. There is a difference in sacrificing yourself (not suicide, but say going to war knowing you will definitely die due to the numbers) and killing yourself with a bomb hoping to kill as many people as you can. But guess what, they have convinced plenty of brainwashed individuals. I can agree with you there, I didn't mean it had 0 effect.

As for the part of muslims showing kindness to muslims, there is plenty of that in the Qur'an and it is needed because of the retarded Wahhabi, who kill more Muslims than anyone. It's needed in scriptures, but these misguided fcks don't care. Al-Qaeda and ISIS are 2 of many. It's not right, but I believe someone will come and fix these matters and expose them frauds. It might or might not be in our lifetimes.

I still disagree with you that Islamic teachings has much to do with the killings over a cartoon. Islam has taught me that I have a right to be offended, but I have no right in taking anyone's life over something like that. Agree to disagree.


but I have no right in taking anyone's life over something like that. Agree to disagree[/B
And frankly, I dont think most muslims are much different, especially those living in america. Maybe you wont believe me but I have actually worked with and become work friends with an Iranian immigrant. I dont think muslims are vampires or something.

religion to me is more of Rorschach Test than anything else. Especially Islam and Christianity. It says more about you what you take out of the holy books.

I am just saying its entirely possible to be a christian, and come away with the belief that the Crusades, the Medieval Inquisition, the spanish inquisition, the salem witch trials, the prosecution of gays, the stoning of adulters, etc are the correct course of action. Would you disagree with that?

If you can agree to that, I think you will find the below is a hypocritical statement.


I still disagree with you that Islamic teachings has much to do with the killings over a cartoon.

[NumberSix]

You define "basis in Christianity" far more narrowly than I do.

Ferdinand and Isabella intended it to maintain Catholic orthodoxy in their kingdoms and to replace the Medieval Inquisition, which was under Papal control.


Theoretically it would be possible to evict the Moors, and allow native Spanish people who converted to islam to keep the religion. So obviously the inquisition has a basis in Christianity.


Not at all.

They wanted to cleanse Spain of all non-Christians. We all get that they did that and the horrific and brutal nature of that. The religion itself though has no teaching requiring all people of a land to be christian. You're not going to find a single verse in the bible that says "Force non-Christians to Convert or leave the country".


The crusades, salem witch trials, etc are all events I feel it is fair to blame on Christianity.

Just like i think its fair to blame the Islamic State, Boko Haram, and various laws based on islamic teachings/principles present in countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, etc on islam.

The Crusades aren't something that needs to be "blamed" on something. The lands that were being fought over were ALREADY established Christian lands for centuries. When another empire comes in conquering the land and forcing the people to convert, why wouldn't that be met with military resistance?

[Cactus-Sack]

Not at all.

They wanted to cleanse Spain of all non-Christians. We all get that they did that and the horrific and brutal nature of that. The religion itself though has no teaching requiring all people of a land to be christian. You're not going to find a single verse in the bible that says "Force non-Christians to Convert or leave the country".




No, but there are a few that say "Kill all non-Christians" so...

[travelingman]

All verses were taken from this online translation of the quran provided by USC
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php

Quran (2:191)



The 3 versions of this verse can be very easily interrupted as sanctioning violence against non-muslims. Basically preventing the performance of islamic rituals is worse than murder according to the quran

Quran (2:193)


Basically fight until everyone accepts islam. Very easily interrupted as sanctioning violence against non-muslims, even demanding it to convert non-Muslims to islam.

Quran (3:56)


All 3 versions of the translation of this verse can very easily be interrupted as sanctioning violence against non-muslims.

Quran (2:216)

Once again preaching violence

Quran (3:151)

These verse teach that it is ok to terrorize non-muslims

Quran (4:95)

Basically muslims that dont fight for islam are not true muslims
Seriously read these verses and tell me that the Quran is peaceful

Quran (5:33)


Quran (8:12)

Do you guys consider decapitation and cutting off fingers violence?


Quran (61:10)


Quran (61:4)


Religion of peace doe

Quran (47:4)

al-Baqarah 2:191-2:193

This is not a general statement. It relates to the Battle of Badr. I won't spend much time on this as I have addressed this in full already in this forum.

Al Imran 3:56

This is speaking of divine punishment. It does not give free reign to Muslims to kill non-believers. This is made clear in several other Quranic verses.

al-Baqarah 2:216

Again, you lack any semblance of contextual understanding. The least you could do is refer back to verse 190 which clearly constrains any open-ended interpretation of verse 216. Warfare was only advocated as a defensive measure. It makes no sense that the Muslim forces in this instance (which numbered less than 500) would launch a conquest to subjugate and convert the thousands of Arab warriors. It would be downright nonsensical.

Al Imran (3:151)

This refers to the Battle of Uhud. Again, a specific instance (perhaps by now you have noticed a theme). This battle was brought on as an aggressive measure by the Meccan Quraysh tribe against the Medinan Muslims.

An Nisa (4:95)

This is referring to Mujahid (the strivers). Basically a Mujahid is one who fights to uphold justice and defend righteousness. You can only come to the conclusion that barbarity is promoted by this verse if you lack a contextual understanding of the verse and the overall surrounding surah.

Al-Ma'ida (5:33)

This refers to nonbelievers who were murdering and stealing and/or promoting warfare. This is not a command to broadly kill all nonbelievers. Those who murder, thieve, and attack the establish Islamic kingdom would be subject to any of those punishments. One example of this verse taking effect is with the punishment of the men of the Uraina tribe.

Al-Anfal (8:12)

Refers to the Battle of Badr. I addressed this more in-depth in the thread about the Oklahoma beheading.

Al-Saff (61:10)

This is referring to Judgment Day.

Al-Saff (61:4)

This refers to engaging in war that is approved by Allah, which means that if it is speaking of physical warfare, then it must be in a defensive manner, never born of aggression.

Surat Muhammad (47:4)

The practice of taking prisoners of warfare is spoken of here. Again, the Battle of Badr creates the surrounding context.


Basically, you come to these conclusions because your knowledge of Islam tends to be limited to what you read of Islamist terrorism in headlines and a few websites with dubious intentions that select single verses without providing any context that creates the comprehensive meaning.

[ThePhantomCreep]

i dunno u guys, if like jon stewart or rachel medows doesnt tell me its ok to say anything bad about teh muslims im too scared to do it on my own bc someone might called me racist and i wont be able to defend myself bc im not smart or articulate but i really want people to think im cool :cry:


i cant be a man without the left wing media, but they only want to make me a woman, but im ok with that because i cant disagree with them either way i'm too scared :cry: :cry: :cry:

You're painfully unfunny accusations aside, it is right-wingers who are far more likely to engage in sheeplike behavior. They share far more in common with Islamic extremists than liberals do.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Conservatives (because they tend to be bigoted f**ks) love to hold entire groups responsible for the actions of a few. They do it here, and they do it abroad.

There are 1.6 billion Muslims on Earth. I doubt even 0.01% of them engage in any form of terrorism worldwide, yet the entire religion needs to be held accountable? Dafuq kinda logic is that?

[LJJ]

Conservatives (because they tend to be bigoted f**ks) love to hold entire groups responsible for the actions of a few. They do it here, and they do it abroad.

There are 1.6 billion Muslims on Earth. I doubt even 0.01% of them engage in any form of terrorism worldwide, yet the entire religion needs to be held accountable? Dafuq kinda logic is that?

Because there is Islamic terrorism is in the United States, Canada, France, England, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, All over the Middle East, All over the Maghreb, All over central Africa, Russia, all over South Asia, India, in Thailand in Malaysia, in Indonesia, in the Philippines, in China.

It's symptomatic and endemic to Islam as it exists today.


If only it was just a tiny percentage isolated to a few areas here and there and a few incidents here and there. It's an endless, daily stream of "incidents" that stretches all over the globe.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Because there is Islamic terrorism is in the United States, Canada, France, England, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, All over the Middle East, All over the Maghreb, All over central Africa, Russia, all over South Asia, India, in Thailand in Malaysia, in Indonesia, in the Philippines, in China.

It's symptomatic and endemic to Islam as it exists today.


If only it was just a tiny percentage isolated to a few areas here and there and a few incidents here and there. It's an endless, daily stream of "incidents" that stretches all over the globe.

40 people are killed every day in the United States. How many came at the hands of an Islamic extremist? In the last week? Month? Year?

I'm all for wiping out terrorists, but scapegoating 1.6 billion people is BS. There's no rationale for it. Do all Christians have to answer for Timothy McVeigh, Child-molesting priests, Jim Jones, etc?

[LJJ]

40 people are killed every day in the United States. How many came at the hands of an Islamic extremist? In the last week? Month? Year?

Only Americans count huh? And what's the point of pointing to bigger problems? That's a straw man. Yes Islam isn't the biggest problem everywhere, that doesn't mean it isn't a huge problem globally.

[HitandRun Reggie]

There are 1.6 billion Muslims on Earth. I doubt even 0.01% of them engage in any form of terrorism worldwide, yet the entire religion needs to be held accountable? Dafuq kinda logic is that?

Yet those 1.6 billion can't..*cough*won't*cough*..keep that .01% in check. The difference between Islam and all the other religions is that Islam's extremists wield tremendous amounts of power and influence in their community.

[Cactus-Sack]

Conservatives (because they tend to be bigoted f**ks) love to hold entire groups responsible for the actions of a few. They do it here, and they do it abroad.

There are 1.6 billion Muslims on Earth. I doubt even 0.01% of them engage in any form of terrorism worldwide, yet the entire religion needs to be held accountable? Dafuq kinda logic is that?

Oh the irony...

[imdaman99]

Yet those 1.6 billion can't..*cough*won't*cough*..keep that .01% in check. The difference between Islam and all the other religions is that Islam's extremists wield tremendous amounts of power and influence in their community.
How do you keep retards that strap bombs to their chests "in check"?
It's almost as hard as reasoning with bigots on the internet :oldlol:

[brownmamba00]

al-Baqarah 2:191-2:193

This is not a general statement. It relates to the Battle of Badr. I won't spend much time on this as I have addressed this in full already in this forum.

Al Imran 3:56

This is speaking of divine punishment. It does not give free reign to Muslims to kill non-believers. This is made clear in several other Quranic verses.

al-Baqarah 2:216

Again, you lack any semblance of contextual understanding. The least you could do is refer back to verse 190 which clearly constrains any open-ended interpretation of verse 216. Warfare was only advocated as a defensive measure. It makes no sense that the Muslim forces in this instance (which numbered less than 500) would launch a conquest to subjugate and convert the thousands of Arab warriors. It would be downright nonsensical.

Al Imran (3:151)

This refers to the Battle of Uhud. Again, a specific instance (perhaps by now you have noticed a theme). This battle was brought on as an aggressive measure by the Meccan Quraysh tribe against the Medinan Muslims.

An Nisa (4:95)

This is referring to Mujahid (the strivers). Basically a Mujahid is one who fights to uphold justice and defend righteousness. You can only come to the conclusion that barbarity is promoted by this verse if you lack a contextual understanding of the verse and the overall surrounding surah.

Al-Ma'ida (5:33)

This refers to nonbelievers who were murdering and stealing and/or promoting warfare. This is not a command to broadly kill all nonbelievers. Those who murder, thieve, and attack the establish Islamic kingdom would be subject to any of those punishments. One example of this verse taking effect is with the punishment of the men of the Uraina tribe.

Al-Anfal (8:12)

Refers to the Battle of Badr. I addressed this more in-depth in the thread about the Oklahoma beheading.

Al-Saff (61:10)

This is referring to Judgment Day.

Al-Saff (61:4)

This refers to engaging in war that is approved by Allah, which means that if it is speaking of physical warfare, then it must be in a defensive manner, never born of aggression.

Surat Muhammad (47:4)

The practice of taking prisoners of warfare is spoken of here. Again, the Battle of Badr creates the surrounding context.


Basically, you come to these conclusions because your knowledge of Islam tends to be limited to what you read of Islamist terrorism in headlines and a few websites with dubious intentions that select single verses without providing any context that creates the comprehensive meaning.

he doesn't even know what he's quoting

[NumberSix]

40 people are killed every day in the United States. How many came at the hands of an Islamic extremist? In the last week? Month? Year?

I'm all for wiping out terrorists, but scapegoating 1.6 billion people is BS. There's no rationale for it. Do all Christians have to answer for Timothy McVeigh, Child-molesting priests, Jim Jones, etc?
How many blacks are murdered in America everyday? What percentage are by white police? Yet, I'd guess you're the type who promotes this dumb idea that there's some kind of "systemic" epidemic of white cops killing blacks and that black parents need to have "the talk" with their kids about how its "dangerous" to leave your house because everyday could be the day you get targeted by some racist white cop.

[NumberSix]

Yet those 1.6 billion can't..*cough*won't*cough*..keep that .01% in check. The difference between Islam and all the other religions is that Islam's extremists wield tremendous amounts of power and influence in their community.
This is a dumb argument. It's not reasonable to expect Muslims to control all fellow Muslims to the point where not a single person commits a crime.

[HitandRun Reggie]

This is a dumb argument. It's not reasonable to expect Muslims to control all fellow Muslims to the point where not a single person commits a crime.

Where no person commits a crime? I have no idea how you drew that conclusion from my post. Like I said, other religions don't have the extremism in their ranks like Muslims do because they will not support, listen or turn a blind eye to it like the Islamic world. Simply put, extremism thrives in the Islamic world because they let it, extremism doesn't do the same in other religions on the scale of Islam because don't accept it.

[LJJ]

Well you can see this on ISH perfectly. With the Muslim posters going "yeah, those killers are just lunatics really. Them cartoonists though! What they did was extremely offensive.". You can tell how gleeful they are about it. Even it it's the trolling on this site that coaxes them into it, it still shows their true colors and their true inner opinions about people making a cartoon critical and satirical of Islam.

That's exactly what breeds terrorism. They resent the freedoms of western society and resent the fact people are free to have negative opinions about Islam and make fun of Islam. They are deeply and fundamentally intolerant.

You can find Christians who think the Raptor Jesus meme is offensive too. But not hundreds of millions of them. Much less hundreds of millions who think that making a Raptor Jesus image is "playing with fire".

[9erempiree]

Well you can see this on ISH perfectly. With the Muslim posters going "yeah, those killers are just lunatics really. Them cartoonists though! What they did was extremely offensive.". You can tell how gleeful they are about it. Even it it's the trolling on this site that coaxes them into it, it still shows their true colors and their true inner opinions about people making a cartoon critical and satirical of Islam.

That's exactly what breeds terrorism. They resent the freedoms of western society and resent the fact people are free to have negative opinions about Islam and make fun of Islam. They are deeply and fundamentally intolerant.

You can find Christians who think the Raptor Jesus meme is offensive too. But not hundreds of millions of them. Much less hundreds of millions who think that making a Raptor Jesus image is "playing with fire".

I couldn't have said it better myself.

You've been owning Muslims since APR 2007