If you look at the big picture, the Knicks might be screwed for years to come.

[Springsteen]

The Knicks will have a first round pick in 2015 and no first rounder in 2016. It's very unlikely they get the first pick in the draft, as teams with the worst record usually do not. Even on the offchance they do, how is a raw Okafor supposed to help a plan which was supposed to have the Knicks contending in 1-2 years?

No great players will likely sign with them in free agency - nobody enough to make enough of a difference, anyway. Rajon Rondo? He and the Mavs are on the same page. Kevin Love? You think he'd go from the situation in Cleveland to dumpster fire in NY? Marc Gasol? Not a chance in hell. The fact of the matter is, instead of pushing for draft picks Phil Jackson traded away most of the talent on the team (Shumpert, JR, Tyson) for little value under the ludicrous assumption that prime free agents are going to be lining up at his front door.

That in itself is bad news and is directly the fault of Phil Jackson. Imagine what teams desperate for a rim protector would've given up for Tyson Chandler right now. The Knicks could've had those two draft picks Cleveland gave up for Mosgov. Let's not forget, Melo may be getting surgery on his knee, and he's supposed to be the core of this "rebuild". So how and from where is Phil Jackson going to build a team? This team is going nowhere for years.

[navy]

This is the risk of tanking. You either hit and rebuild or strike out and stay terrible.

[Marchesk]

Knick fans can always hope for Lebron.

It's weird to have the Knicks, Celtics, Lakers and 76ers all bad at one time, without assurances that any of them will be building a contender in the near future.

[JohnFreeman]

If I was an FA, I think New York would be attractive.

[T_L_P]

Prime Melo didn't have a legit MVP impact in my opinion.

Now he's visibly exiting his prime before our eyes and he is injured.

Moral of the story: don't try to build a contender around current Melo.

:confusedshrug:

NY better pray Gasol or LMA are stupid enough to sign for them.

[Magic731]

OPs obsession with the Knicks is almost frightening.

[Kidbasketball20]

Had the Knicks signed Lin, he would have been part of their incredible season they had 2 years ago and would have at least won 1 playoff series.

Woodson/Lin/Melo was doing fine after Linsanity.

With this core in place, they were only a stud or two great players away from competing for a 2-3 seed in this weak Eastern conference.


This all falls on Melo's shoulders for not wanting Lin back after Linsanity. He has no one to blame but himself.

[MellowYellow]

Had the Knicks signed Lin, he would have been part of their incredible season they had 2 years ago and would have at least won 1 playoff series.

Woodson/Lin/Melo was doing fine after Linsanity.

With this core in place, they were only a stud or two great players away from competing for a 2-3 seed in this weak Eastern conference.


This all falls on Melo's shoulders for not wanting Lin back after Linsanity. He has no one to blame but himself.

They did win one playoff series. Jeremy Lin does not help them beat the pacers in rd 2. Jeremy Lin would not make a difference on this team without other upgrades. Mainly at shooting guard. And they wouldnt have flexibility to get anyone else with Jeremy Lin.

[Cocaine80s]

Okafor is not that raw, I think he could put up decent numbers his rookie year.


Dude is averaging 19/9 on 68% right now

[Kidbasketball20]

They did win one playoff series. Jeremy Lin does not help them beat the pacers in rd 2. Jeremy Lin would not make a difference on this team without other upgrades. Mainly at shooting guard. And they wouldnt have flexibility to get anyone else with Jeremy Lin.

^Idiotic and stupid


Instead of Barg and Felton, you could have had Lin and a decent pick n roll big man.

[Cocaine80s]

Had the Knicks signed Lin, he would have been part of their incredible season they had 2 years ago and would have at least won 1 playoff series.

Woodson/Lin/Melo was doing fine after Linsanity.

With this core in place, they were only a stud or two great players away from competing for a 2-3 seed in this weak Eastern conference.


This all falls on Melo's shoulders for not wanting Lin back after Linsanity. He has no one to blame but himself.
Bruh Lin is getting outplayed by ****ing Ronnie Price

Lin wouldnt do shit on the knicks

[UK2K]

The Knicks will rebuild through free agency, because they are the Knicks.

[T_L_P]

Bruh Lin is getting outplayed by ****ing Ronnie Price

Lin wouldnt do shit on the knicks
:roll:

[Random_Guy]

i like to shit on the knicks as much as anyone, but knicks could potentially have an awesome off season with so much capspace, high pick incoming. in the nba its not about being good for a long time imo, its all about getting that chip. though its the knicks so i doubt it lol

[NuggetsFan]

Knicks know they don't own there pick next year. Gotta think there going all in in this offseason/draft etc. As a Nuggets fan I hope they mess up and we get to swap picks but they won't be this bad next year.

[ralph_i_el]

Prime Melo didn't have a legit MVP impact in my opinion.

Now he's visibly exiting his prime before our eyes and he is injured.

Moral of the story: don't try to build a contender around current Melo.

:confusedshrug:

NY better pray Gasol or LMA are stupid enough to sign for them.
Knicks with LMA and Melo would still be ugly unless they got a nice pg and melo actually let him run things. Too much overlap. Too many midrange J's

[El Kabong]

If they nail their pick and use their cap space wisely it'd be easy enough for them to make the playoffs in the East next year.

[MrRogers]

Knick fans can always hope for Lebron.

It's weird to have the Knicks, Celtics, Lakers and 76ers all bad at one time, without assurances that any of them will be building a contender in the near future.


This is what the NBA wanted though. Parity. Bad front office decisions and constant bitching is the reason why the 4 flagship franchises are shitty.

:oldlol: @ dumpster fire reference.

[Pointguard]

Okafor is not that raw, I think he could put up decent numbers his rookie year.

Dude is averaging 19/9 on 68% right now
He has the potential to have the best post up game in the NBA in only his second year - yeah, as a 19 year old! He has the best counter moves in the post I have ever seen from a center because he moves like a SF and uses jab steps, quick spins, has a great handle, giant hands which he uses like young Julius in the post, loves to bang, great touch. I know I have been touting Embiid but as far as post moves, this kid beats out the Duncan/Hakeem hybrid.

He and Embiid make you think that post big men are making a huge comeback. Oak4all is not a great athlete but it won't matter.

[Practice?]

If I was an FA, I think New York would be attractive.

Why?

[Springsteen]

This is what the NBA wanted though. Parity. Bad front office decisions and constant bitching is the reason why the 4 flagship franchises are shitty.

Would you as a fan be opposed to trading Melo? I'm sure at least a few teams would have some interest in him, despite his contract. Get some solid players from him and maybe some first rounders and Phil can just admit he's doing a full rebuild. :confusedshrug:

[Hotlantadude81]

Good.

I want the Knicks to be terrible for years to come.

[kshutts1]

Millsap, Rondo, Tyson, Monroe, Josh Smith, Jordan, Boozer, Marc, Asik, Green, Robin Lopez, Matthews, Gay, Danny Green, Duncan, Ginobili, and Seraphin are all decent, or better, FAs available this upcoming offseason.

Maybe the Knicks won't get anyone that will command the max (Millsap, Monroe, Jordan, Marc all possible) or "lifers" (Duncan, Ginobili)... but everyone else is fair game and, depending on the money tossed their way, would be a useful addition.

Add in Melo and a likely top 4 pick, and that's not terrible.

[Charlie Sheen]

Good.

I want the Knicks to be terrible for years to come.

I wouldn't bank on it. It's prolly not gonna happen overnight, but a high draft pick and a ton of cash points to a bright future.

[Hotlantadude81]

I wouldn't bank on it. It's prolly not gonna happen overnight, but a high draft pick and a ton of cash points to a bright future.

By the time they start putting a team around Melo he will be near the end of his prime.

[kshutts1]

By the time they start putting a team around Melo he will be near the end of his prime.
Not necessarily.

Let's say...
PBev (current RFA) / Larkin / Reggie Jackson (RFA)
Hardaway JR / Reggie Jackson (RFA)
Melo / Early / Ware
Amare (reduced salary) / Boozer
Kanter / Seraphin

Then add in a top 4 draft pick, which is a near guarantee, and that's a playoff team for 2015. In 2016, after a year of growth/chemistry together, it's arguably a contender (though not in my mind).

Regardless, the FA class is full of impact, though not max, players.

[Charlie Sheen]

By the time they start putting a team around Melo he will be near the end of his prime.

Melo's timeline shouldn't sway management to build this team with any greater urgency. That kinda thinking is too narrow and designed for failure. If it happens that way, great. Knicks are more than likely gonna have Melo whether or not he's the superstar or an expensive piece around someone else.

[Hotlantadude81]

Not necessarily.

Let's say...
PBev (current RFA) / Larkin / Reggie Jackson (RFA)
Hardaway JR / Reggie Jackson (RFA)
Melo / Early / Ware
Amare (reduced salary) / Boozer
Kanter / Seraphin

Then add in a top 4 draft pick, which is a near guarantee, and that's a playoff team for 2015. In 2016, after a year of growth/chemistry together, it's arguably a contender (though not in my mind).

Regardless, the FA class is full of impact, though not max, players.

That team does not scare me that much.... Even if it happens.

[kshutts1]

That team does not scare me that much.... Even if it happens.
Me either. But PBev, Jackson, Hardaway and Seraphin, plus the draft pick, are all young.

Just saying... it's feasible that the Knicks could make some noise as early as next season. Maybe not likely, but certainly feasible.

[outbreak]

This is the risk of tanking. You either hit and rebuild or strike out and stay terrible.
This is the danger of tanking without a full plan. Knicks are moving assets a proper tank would keep in the hopes that they can speed it up which usually fails

[chocolatethunder]

Me either. But PBev, Jackson, Hardaway and Seraphin, plus the draft pick, are all young.

Just saying... it's feasible that the Knicks could make some noise as early as next season. Maybe not likely, but certainly feasible.
I assume you're a Knick fan and you want to look at the bright side and I get that because they have been a nightmare but the likelyhood of them making the playoffs with that roster is slim and being a contender with it, even in two years is slimmer. I think that it's more than likely that they'll try and trade Melo next year to get back some draft picks and do a real rebuild. NY just isn't a FA destination right now because they are in such disarray. I think if Phil is smart he can trade Melo and bring a couple of picks and a player or even more cap relief. I know at first glance it's not what you want to do but in the long run it will be better. They can start over and build the franchise long term.

Edit: of course I know Melo has a no trade clause but I think that all parties involved will agree to it and realize it's best for everyone.

[Rooster]

Not necessarily.

Let's say...
PBev (current RFA) / Larkin / Reggie Jackson (RFA)
Hardaway JR / Reggie Jackson (RFA)
Melo / Early / Ware
Amare (reduced salary) / Boozer
Kanter / Seraphin

Then add in a top 4 draft pick, which is a near guarantee, and that's a playoff team for 2015. In 2016, after a year of growth/chemistry together, it's arguably a contender (though not in my mind).

Regardless, the FA class is full of impact, though not max, players.

I think the key here is the BIG. If the Knicks gonna have to run the triangle, they gonna have that big to facilitate the offense. It does not have to be an elite, just someone that can play defense and good fit with the triangle.

[smoovegittar]

OPs obsession with the Knicks is almost frightening.
He's one of a handful. Probably a Hawks fan who's finally come out. 5 Knick threads a day... still rolling.

[imdaman99]

They did win one playoff series. Jeremy Lin does not help them beat the pacers in rd 2. Jeremy Lin would not make a difference on this team without other upgrades. Mainly at shooting guard. And they wouldnt have flexibility to get anyone else with Jeremy Lin.
That's laughable considering how much of a negative Felton was. Unless you think Raymond Felton was good that series :roll: The bottom line is you are a Melo stan, and Melo did not want Lin here because he was jealous of the attention he was getting. Melo went to the owner and basically told him that he didn't want him here. And I don't even like Lin, I just appreciate Linsanity. Marshmelo is not a team guy, has always been about himself. Forcing his way here proved that and made Donnie Walsh leave. And now he is not playing? What an overrated 'star'.

I'll be happy the day Melo is off this team. I'll leave it to Phil + hopefully that #1 draft pick to take the Knicks further.

[SwishSquared]

Who would realistically trade for Melo that he'd willingly agree to come? I mean SAC is always game for a trade (could play 4 out-1 in on O & 4-5 on D if they wanted lol) but I can't really think of a team that has the cap space/matching contracts + assets that'd entice Phil + destination that Melo wants.

CHI is out the window now. Maybe Toronto? They have lots of expiring deals + have picks, but their D is already lagging. Wonder how it'd be with Melo in the fold. Phoenix has plenty assets, but not sure Melo would sign off on being there.

[Springsteen]

Who would realistically trade for Melo that he'd willingly agree to come? I mean SAC is always game for a trade (could play 4 out-1 in on O & 4-5 on D if they wanted lol) but I can't really think of a team that has the cap space/matching contracts + assets that'd entice Phil + destination that Melo wants.

CHI is out the window now. Maybe Toronto? They have lots of expiring deals + have picks, but their D is already lagging. Wonder how it'd be with Melo in the fold. Phoenix has plenty assets, but not sure Melo would sign off on being there.

Logically, Toronto and Phoenix would make the most sense in terms of how Melo fits into both teams and what the Knicks could get back. Maybe Sacramento like you said, but do they have any players the Knicks would want in return?

[Collie]

The Knicks are in a unique situation of tanking while they still have their star in his prime. That means they're torn between trying to maximize Carmelo's remaining prime years and trying to rebuild through the draft/FA. EVERYTHING rests on being able to lure FAs like Love and getting a great player in the draft.

[SwishSquared]

Logically, Toronto and Phoenix would make the most sense in terms of how Melo fits into both teams and what the Knicks could get back. Maybe Sacramento like you said, but do they have any players the Knicks would want in return?
Here are a couple trades I came up with:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l3p23jt

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n8zpr4t

For Phoenix, it's a little trickier since they have so many guys on cheap deals and the trade machine doesn't account for the extensions given to the Morris twins. Phoenix is flush with youth and picks- just not sure who'd they likely give up. Bledsoe is their best salary filler piece and I'm sure they'd rather keep him (much younger, 2 way player, and like $10M/yr cheaper for next 4 years). Phil wouldn't want I. Thomas, so maybe a third team gets involved.

I'm guessing SAC gives up 2 future firsts, and in the other trade, TOR gives up their own 2015 pick + the future first NYK still owe them + 2 second rounders. That TOR trade would clear like $58M in cap space for the Knicks this summer.

EDIT:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ktsuvsw

That's the TOR trade I meant to put there. MIL gives up 2 seconds for Calderon (and MIL could potentially receive rights to Thanassis, Giannis' bro).

[Blue&Orange]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365017&page=3

butthurt redneck loser got a little more buthurt for getting owned again by knicks fans he decides to strike again


The Knicks will have a first round pick in 2015 and no first rounder in 2016. It's very unlikely they get the first pick in the draft, as teams with the worst record usually do not. Even on the offchance they do, how is a raw Okafor supposed to help a plan which was supposed to have the Knicks contending in 1-2 years?

No great players will likely sign with them in free agency - nobody enough to make enough of a difference, anyway. Rajon Rondo? He and the Mavs are on the same page. Kevin Love? You think he'd go from the situation in Cleveland to dumpster fire in NY? Marc Gasol? Not a chance in hell. The fact of the matter is, instead of pushing for draft picks Phil Jackson traded away most of the talent on the team (Shumpert, JR, Tyson) for little value under the ludicrous assumption that prime free agents are going to be lining up at his front door.

That in itself is bad news and is directly the fault of Phil Jackson. Imagine what teams desperate for a rim protector would've given up for Tyson Chandler right now. The Knicks could've had those two draft picks Cleveland gave up for Mosgov. Let's not forget, Melo may be getting surgery on his knee, and he's supposed to be the core of this "rebuild". So how and from where is Phil Jackson going to build a team? This team is going nowhere for years.
Knicks will surelly have a 2016 1st rounder, as well as in '17 '18 '19 '20. You must be confused with the nets.

Knicks now have the worst record, and because of that the biggest percentage of all teams to get the n

[Springsteen]

Here are a couple trades I came up with:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l3p23jt

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=n8zpr4t

For Phoenix, it's a little trickier since they have so many guys on cheap deals and the trade machine doesn't account for the extensions given to the Morris twins. Phoenix is flush with youth and picks- just not sure who'd they likely give up. Bledsoe is their best salary filler piece and I'm sure they'd rather keep him (much younger, 2 way player, and like $10M/yr cheaper for next 4 years). Phil wouldn't want I. Thomas, so maybe a third team gets involved.

I'm guessing SAC gives up 2 future firsts, and in the other trade, TOR gives up their own 2015 pick + the future first NYK still owe them + 2 second rounders. That TOR trade would clear like $58M in cap space for the Knicks this summer.

EDIT:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ktsuvsw

That's the TOR trade I meant to put there. MIL gives up 2 seconds for Calderon (and MIL could potentially receive rights to Thanassis, Giannis' bro).

Either Phoenix or Sac makes the most sense to me, good trades :applause:

I forgot one other team though: Portland. Melo could actually fit really well in there, but do the Blazers have enough viable assets?

[GOBB]

NYK will strike out in free agency like they did the year Bron and them were FAs

[hawksdogsbraves]

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365017&page=3

butthurt redneck loser got a little more buthurt for getting owned again by knicks fans he decides to strike again


Knicks will surelly have a 2016 1st rounder, as well as in '17 '18 '19 '20. You must be confused with the nets.

Knicks now have the worst record, and because of that the biggest percentage of all teams to get the n

[Legends66NBA7]

Logically, Toronto and Phoenix would make the most sense in terms of how Melo fits into both teams and what the Knicks could get back. Maybe Sacramento like you said, but do they have any players the Knicks would want in return?

Melo isn't fitting Toronto with that contract. The main thing he brings is offense and the Raptors already have enough of that.

[SwishSquared]

Either Phoenix or Sac makes the most sense to me, good trades :applause:

I forgot one other team though: Portland. Melo could actually fit really well in there, but do the Blazers have enough viable assets?
Thanks :cheers:

They could do something like this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ld2zo3l

But then Knicks would take on salary for a couple more years, although Batum is a good player. With Melo saying he needs surgery, I'm not sure Portland takes this chance. Portland would def give up a first and at least 1 second (maybe more). I think they own all their first rounders going forward, so that's not the biggest issue. I'm not sure if Melo fits alongside Lillar/Aldridge just from a shot distribution standpoint. However, that offense, if Melo moves the ball, would be unstoppable. I think their D takes a hit though

[Springsteen]

Knicks fans calling me a "redneck" and accusing me of being a Hawks fan when I live nowhere near Atlanta, all because I point out the evident facts of the slow-motion trainwreck their team is currently in.

Stay classy. :rolleyes:

[SwishSquared]

Melo isn't fitting Toronto with that contract. The main thing he brings is offense and the Raptors already have enough of that.
Raptors have like $20M in expiring contracts and a couple trade exceptions, so they can trade for him. I do agree though that his lack of defense could hurt the squad, since they already are struggling on D. I do think a closing lineup of Lowry-Derozan-JJ-Melo-Amir is pretty potent though.

[GimmeThat]

you mean Carmelo's career might be screwed for years to come, while the Knicks slowly putting around pieces, with him pushing them over as a contender.


see, what might happen then, is that after he's resigned with the Knicks for the max contract. He would be STUPID to NOT resign with the Knicks when Phil Jackson may potentially put up a contending team.


assuming Jackson can get it done between now and his contract is up.


with all that cap space.



anyhow, I'm just saying.

[Springsteen]

butthurt redneck loser got a little more buthurt for getting owned again by knicks fans he decides to strike again

Yup, that's exactly why I made this thread. I couldn't handle how much you Knicks fans were roasting me, so I had to retaliate :facepalm


Knicks will surelly have a 2016 1st rounder, as well as in '17 '18 '19 '20. You must be confused with the nets.

The Knicks' rights for the 2016 pick was given up in the Melo trade to the Nuggets, who can swap it. Anything else was given up to the Raptors. Remember? Oh wait, you're a Melo stan :lol

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]Knicks now have the worst record, and because of that the biggest percentage of all teams to get the n

[tontoz]

We should just have a Knicks suck sticky. I am thoroughly enjoying the Knicks suckage but even I am getting tired of all the new Knicks threads.

[Blue&Orange]

Only three times in NBA history has the team with the worst record received the number one pick. But whatever you say.

The worst record gets you the biggest % of getting the 1st pick, of course there's 75% you don't get it, it's math dumbass. That's why called lottery. Now explain how does having one of the worst records = not having any chance.


Not even sure what you're saying here.
You're dumb. Not surprised.


Best free agent available? You mean the player Phoenix, with one of the best medical staffing in the NBA wouldn't resign because they knew his days as a quality player were numbered? The player the Knicks had to pay a ludicrous amount of money to sign, which then screwed them over from signing quality players to play with Melo? :facepalm

Right because Knicks were the only team with capspace and looking to sign Amare. Ludicrous amount? They gave Amare max, pretty standard move. Nothing you said contradicts what i said.


Mosgov has never been touted as an amazing rim protector. Did that stop the Cavs from giving up more assets for him? Chandler is a former DPOY, and if you actually watched how he's been playing in Dallas, a solid defensive presence in the paint. You're content with Chandler being traded for a center who got waived, an old middling point guard who's played below average, some third string raw point guard, and some 2nd round picks? Again, :facepalm
Again you said teams are now looking for rim protectors, i asked they weren't start of season? Your answer = trash. Knicks got Calderon, Cleanthony Early, Shane Larkin, Thanasis and saved money. Let's see what the cavs get, and wait a couple of years to pass final judgement 'Kay? Oh and Chandler started with a hard on, but he is getting back to earth, where Bargnani bests in in defensive assignments and where Hibbert shits on him.


Who are they going to give a max? Goran Dragic? Tony Parker? Most teams with prime free agents are on the same page with the players about staying.

Apparently you are incredible more worried than any Knicks fan, you keep making threads about it.



You can be mad if you want, but I'm just pointing out facts.

The nerve of this idiot :roll:



But it just seems to me the idea of the Knicks being title contenders
You're the only ones making thread about it.

[smoovegittar]

"Call me a Knicks hater if you want, but I've watched them for years. Patrick Ewing carrying them to the playoffs year after year, Sprewell in the finals, hell even David Lee and Nate Robinson. I'm a fan of good basketball and good basketball front office decisions. The Knicks have generally been the anti-thesis of these things the past decade, save for one good season. You can be mad if you want, but I'm just pointing out facts.

If the Knicks are good next or the year following, I'll be happy for you and the rest of the Knicks fans. But it just seems to me the idea of the Knicks being title contenders in any close period of time seems false to me. "

!

Well, now you're coming correct. All we need to do is limit the Knick posts to maybe one a day, as they really aren't deserving of any attention. Then the Knick fans will be off your back (or at least I will).

[smoovegittar]

We should just have a Knicks suck sticky. I am thoroughly enjoying the Knicks suckage but even I am getting tired of all the new Knicks threads.
It's beyond ridiculous. Imagine if we were competing.

[Legends66NBA7]

Raptors have like $20M in expiring contracts and a couple trade exceptions, so they can trade for him. I do agree though that his lack of defense could hurt the squad, since they already are struggling on D. I do think a closing lineup of Lowry-Derozan-JJ-Melo-Amir is pretty potent though.

It has potential, but I would rather not the Raptors have Melo's salary (4 years) and possible declining years IMO.

[Ariza4three]

If the Knicks don't get Okafor this year then it's going to be a 3~ year development at least.