Bigoted French hatemonger/comedian arrested - What about freedom of speech?

[lakers_forever]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/quenelle-comedian-dieudonne-arrested-for-apology-for-terrorism-9976667.html

Arrested for making fun about the march to honor the dead and for freedom of speech. Is this real life? :facepalm

[LJJ]

You are not allowed to incite violence. Freedom of speech in most countries in Europe limits itself there, the law and the standard is not the same as in America. There is no unlimited freedom of speech.

[lakers_forever]

You are not allowed to incite violence. Freedom of speech in most countries in Europe limits itself there, the law and the standard is not the same as in America. There is no unlimited freedom of speech.
But some could use that very same argument to say that Charlie incites violence.

[LJJ]

You have to explain that one to me.

The comedian, who is a convicted anti semite, proclaims he supports people shooting up a Jewish supermarket. I don't think he'll get convicted this time but that's the gist of it.

What has Charlie Hebdo done to promote and incite violence?

[Gr]

But some could use that very same argument to say that Charlie incites violence.

There's a significant difference between walking through a dangerous alley at night and condoning the actions of the people who make it dangerous. And that difference is not even as significant as drawing cartoons of religious figures and the guy in the OP.

[Nash]

his freedom of speech wasn't good enough.

[L.Kizzle]

Was he on stage?

[KevinNYC]

Was he on stage?It was his facebook page.

in the article above, he said he was misunderstood, but the original post he wrote, "I am Charlie...." but he didn't identify with Charlie Hedbo, but the guy who shot up the kosher market. Sounded ****ed up to me, I don't know if there was any space for misunderstanding, but I don't speak French.


The crime he is being charged with is "apology for terrorism" or in English "Incitement to terrorism."

Here's how the similiar UK law is described

The Terrorism Act 2006 introduced into UK law a new offence of encouragement of terrorism. Statements which are likely to be understood as a direct or indirect encouragement or other inducement to the commission of terrorist acts may be caught by the offence. One clause in the Act was particularly controversial: it provides that among the statements likely to be understood as indirectly encouraging an act of terrorism are those glorifying such acts, at least where members of the public would reasonably infer that they should emulate them. This chapter examines the free speech arguments relevant to the new offence of encouragement of terrorism, in particular whether the offence is compatible with the freedom of political speech required by a commitment to liberal democracy.

[sweggeh]

..

[iamgine]

You have to explain that one to me.

The comedian, who is a convicted anti semite, proclaims he supports people shooting up a Jewish supermarket. I don't think he'll get convicted this time but that's the gist of it.

What has Charlie Hebdo done to promote and incite violence?
To say Charlie Hebdo didn't incite violence would be to say Westboro Baptist Church didn't incite violence.

[Ncrazyballa]

freedom of speech isnt even real. in the real world, there are real world consequences to what you actually say.

[LJJ]

To say Charlie Hebdo didn't incite violence would be to say Westboro Baptist Church didn't incite violence.

How is it similar in any way?

[KevinNYC]

freedom of speech isnt even real. in the real world, there are real world consequences to what you actually say.
:biggums: :biggums:

[iamgine]

How is it similar in any way?
How is it not?

[imdaman99]

How is it not?
There's no point. Dude is an angry anti Islam bigot :oldlol:

[lakers_forever]

You have to explain that one to me.

(...)

What has Charlie Hebdo done to promote and incite violence?

You are acting like you don't know what I'm talking about just because you don't see a problem with the cartoons. Many people do and see them as inciting islamophobia... The constant characterization of Muslims with rifles and most of the time associated with violence and so on.

----------------------------------------------

He wrote this on his facebook page. He participated on the march to honor the killed cartoonists. He mocked the media superlatives about the march. W

[LJJ]

You are acting like you don't know what I'm talking about just because you don't see a problem with the cartoons. Many people do and see them as inciting islamophobia... The constant characterization of Muslims with rifles and most of the time associated with violence and so on.



Well that's were the line is. You can critize and satirize a religion, you can't say it's fine to gun down the followers of said religion. The first isn't inciting violence, the latter is.

This is really, really simple stuff.

And I already said before I don't think he'll be convicted this time. Thus, I don't think he's guilty or crossed the line this time. They say he's apologizing for actual violence. The case is much closer than anything Hebdo does, but we'll see what the courts say.

[iamgine]

Well that's were the line is. You can critize and satirize a religion, you can't say it's fine to gun down the followers of said religion. The first isn't inciting violence, the latter is.

This is really, really simple stuff.

And I already said before I don't think he'll be convicted this time. Thus, I don't think he's guilty or crossed the line this time. They say he's apologizing for actual violence. The case is much closer than anything Hebdo does, but we'll see what the courts say.
Wrong. The first can incite violence even though it's totally legal.

This is really, really simple stuff.

[Gr]

There's no point. Dude is an angry anti Islam bigot :oldlol:

That's like calling somebody an anti-Scientology bigot. Playing the bigotry card for someone else criticizing a set of beliefs or drawing cartoons of a religious figure reeks of insecurity. True Gods and prophets don't need protection from words and drawings, not even verbally.

[LJJ]

Wrong. The first can incite violence even though it's totally legal.

This is really, really simple stuff.

I know you can't see the difference between satirizing a religion and saying actual violence against people is okay, but luckily the courts in Europe do understand the difference.

[iamgine]

I know you can't see the difference between satirizing a religion and saying actual violence against people is okay, but luckily the courts in Europe do understand the difference.
:oldlol: Totally not what I was saying

[Gr]

:oldlol: Totally not what I was saying

Oh, don't be so daft and get hung up on the word incite. LJJ's point is pretty clear while you're just trying to play a meaningless and purposeless game of "gotcha".

[iamgine]

[QUOTE=Gr

[LJJ]

Nope you are a moron who doesn't understand the meaning of inciting violence in a legal context. And proud to be a moron.:applause:

[Gr]

Nope I was correcting him.

You're being thick headed in your replies and just want to be right for the sake of being right. Getting hung up on the possible broad reach of the word incite is not very productive.

[SCdac]

Eh, if you have a history of anti-semitic sentiments, you're a public figure, and you say something along the lines of "I support the terrorists who killed those Jews

[gts]

Nope I was correcting him.no you weren't :lol you may have thought you were but you came off as a guy looking to stir an empty pot

[NumberSix]

People talk about the "double standard" of denying the Holocaust (Muslims from what I gather online are obsessed with ridiculing Jewish "double standards" and any claims of anti-semitism), but just keep in mind denying the holocaust is exactly the same as denying slavery of black people in our country... or the genocide of native Americans... These are historical truths that happened less than 100 years ago, not religion and mythos.
Genocide of Native-Americans is not a "historical truth". The VAST majority of Native American death was due to diseases brought over by the Europeans that the natives had no immunities to.

The "black death" that killed 30%-60% of all Europe came from Asia which Europeans had no immunities to. Nobody accuses Asia of committing "genocide" against Europeans..... because to do so would be stupid. :hammerhead:

You just learned something you wouldn't have if it was illegal to discuss this.

[SCdac]

Genocide of Native-Americans is not a "historical truth". The VAST majority of Native American death was due to diseases brought over by the Europeans that the natives had no immunities to.

The "black death" that killed 30%-60% of all Europe came from Asia which Europeans had no immunities to. Nobody accuses Asia of committing "genocide" against Europeans..... because to do so would be stupid. :hammerhead:

You just learned something you wouldn't have if it was illegal to discuss this.

Regardless of our difference in interpretation of history, I think you're missing the point...

[MavsSuperFan]

Should never haven been arrested. In america he would never have been.

David Duke as a youtube channel where he is constantly bashing jews/israel.

[MavsSuperFan]

[QUOTE=SCdac]Eh, if you have a history of anti-semitic sentiments, you're a public figure, and you say something along the lines of "I support the terrorists who killed those Jews

[Dresta]

Yeah, European countries don't practice anything close to free speech. Various 'offense' and 'hate' legislation has arisen over the past few decades to devalue that very principle, one which various European leaders just promenaded about declaring themselves to be champions of.

Such twats.

[necya]

Medias are trying to shut him down since awhile now in France that's why the medias (controlled, rigged, and everything you want) only repeats that he incites for terrorism...which is absolutely not the truth.
In fact, he said i'm charlie and Coulibaly because he is of course against those horrible acts, and because he feels like a terrorist (in the sense that he is treated by politics and medias like that in France since several years)

the complete story is a bit hard to explain but it started many years ago when he he played a jewish terrorist on a tv show which has been pointed out at the time and they make him disappeared from a day to another for that.
During this period, he had to play in a bus (...yeah, true story) because no one wanted him anymore.
Since this episode, medias only rely informations that he is an antisemite and calls for violence.( they only talk about his sketches on jewish but never show the ones that mention other religions)
Politics try on a regular basis to cancel his spectacles but Dieudonn

[LJJ]

Dieudonne is a hack who knows very well his poorly disguised as satirical anti-semitism is a massive hit with his target audience and his source of income: the non-native youths in France.

That's all he is though. Just a commercialist hack taking advantage of an opportunity.

[necya]

Dieudonne is a hack who knows very well his poorly disguised as satirical anti-semitism is a massive hit with his target audience and his source of income: the non-native youths in France.

That's all he is though. Just a commercialist hack taking advantage of an opportunity.

lol
if you have such an arrested idea on him, i hope you live in France...in all case, you are wrong on him.

[LJJ]

Naw.

For all the "Islamophobia" (lol) in Europe and all the comedians, cartoonists, writers and critics of Islam, who satirize Muhammed and make fun of the religion, no one actually goes so far as to say "Hey you know about those rape camps for Muslim women they had in the Yugoslav Wars? That was a pretty cool idea. That was pretty funny ha ha ha. We should bring that back!". Everyone knows that even in jest, that would be extremely awful to say. Maybe some ultra-right nazi like people, but certainly no mainstream comedians are doing anything like that.

Yet Dieudonne constantly makes fun of the Holocaust. It's what he's most famous for. It's the reason he is so popular. He's not anywhere near as harsh on Islam or other religions. If Dieudonne said things about Islam as bad as the things he has said about Jews, not only would his audience disappear like gelato in the Sahara, he would have a had a knife through his throat by now.

[necya]

Naw.

For all the "Islamophobia" (lol) in Europe and all the comedians, cartoonists, writers and critics of Islam, who satirize Muhammed and make fun of the religion, no one actually goes so far as to say "Hey you know about those rape camps for Muslim women they had in the Yugoslav Wars? That was a pretty cool idea. That was pretty funny ha ha ha. We should bring that back!". Everyone knows that even in jest, that would be extremely awful to say. Maybe some ultra-right nazi like people, but certainly no mainstream comedians are doing anything like that.

Yet Dieudonne constantly makes fun of the Holocaust. It's what he's most famous for. It's the reason he is so popular. He's not anywhere near as harsh on Islam or other religions. If Dieudonne said things about Islam as bad as the things he has said about Jews, not only would his audience disappear like gelato in the Sahara, he would have a had a knife through his throat by now.

lol, this discussion is impossible.
i have seen ALL of his spectacles, you didn't even see one. continue to listen to the medias...
the most trash he has done were the one on his own origin (Cameroun), the one after 9/11, the "r

[LJJ]

[QUOTE=necya]
Dieudonn

[necya]

Thanks for providing the case and the point. :roll: Dieudonne is an anti-semite and that's the main appeal for his fans. What you just typed is filled thoroughly anti-semitic sentiment and conspiracy theory.

If Dieudonne was an equal opportunity hate monger and made an anti-Islam special, do you think it would sell? That would be hilarious. None of his fans would go see it. I can see it now. Him making fun of Yugoslavian rape camps. Saying the Serbs should have finished the job and murdered all of those Muslims. It would be outrageous. Starting a "satirical" anti-Muslim party. He would be killed within a week.

:facepalm you don't even understand a world of what he says nor you have never seen him on a scene...and you keep talking shit about something i could teach you, but no, still acting like a true assh0le...

[LJJ]

:roll:

No please go ahead. Explain more how the Jews control everything in France and try to bring Dieudonne down, and how you agree with Dieudonne the extermination camps should come back. :applause: Educate us.

Better yet, show us how badly Dieudonne ridiculous and satirizes Islam.