The problem with Cleveland (Jalen Rose)

[Magic 32]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh5_I4MUJoc&t=32m21s

Until 39 min.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[plowking]

That is all good in theory, but Kyrie doesn't create for anyone but himself, and is an unwilling passer. So why should he let him handle the ball?

And why are you so concerned with what the Cavs should do to get better?

[Haymaker]

Lebron never found success outside of a system that doesn't place him as the ball handler. He won't run through screens or cut to the basket for anybody. His drive and kick out formula is the only way.

[2swift4u]

I agree with most he said. People talk about Kyrie and Love all the time but Lebron should adjust his game just as much. He's taking the ball away from Kyrie way too often and plays pick&roll all game long. I don't think that's what Blatt had in mind.

[r15mohd]

Lebron never found success outside of a system that doesn't place him as the ball handler. He won't run through screens or cut to the basket for anybody. His drive and kick out formula is the only way.

well the mentioned success has equated to title runs and championships...why should the formula completely change when it is proven? :confusedshrug:

not taking anything away from Kyrie, as he's a good player, he can certainly score but he's a SG in PG's body at the end of the day...his PG leadership isn't capable in leading this team and we've seen that early this year, and have seen it over the past few years.

should Lebron involve him more, sure, as should Love be more involved. But i wouldn't change the Lebron-ball direction to satisfy these players if the wins aren't coming. trial and error to find a median between all three, but Lebron-ball has to stay IMO

[Haymaker]

well the mentioned success has equated to title runs and championships...why should the formula completely change when it is proven? :confusedshrug:


Exactly. Cavs need to trade Kyrie for a 3&D guy.

[r15mohd]

Exactly. Cavs need to trade Kyrie for a 3&D guy.

that's certainly an option but I don't think mid-season disruption of that is what's needed now. this team is fully capable of making a deep playoff push as-is. I want to see Shump's role and if he can provide that back-court defense to help compensate Irving's inability to play better D.

Moz
Love
Lebron
Shump
Kyrie

this lineup can be worth something...just need to see how they are on the court together. not for another 2-3 weeks with Shump, IIRC, before we unfortunately

[HurricaneKid]

that's certainly an option but I don't think mid-season disruption of that is what's needed now. this team is fully capable of making a deep playoff push as-is. I want to see Shump's role and if he can provide that back-court defense to help compensate Irving's inability to play better D.

Moz
Love
Lebron
Shump
Kyrie

this lineup can be worth something...just need to see how they are on the court together. not for another 2-3 weeks with Shump, IIRC, before we unfortunately

Offenses are just better now (Xs and Os wise). The league is stacked at PG and PF and elite 1/4 combos putting Love and Kyrie in PnRs is going to happen every possession in the playoffs (more advanced sets putting the defensive stress on those two). Its harder to hide defenders than it used to be.

[Dresta]

well the mentioned success has equated to title runs and championships...why should the formula completely change when it is proven? :confusedshrug:

not taking anything away from Kyrie, as he's a good player, he can certainly score but he's a SG in PG's body at the end of the day...his PG leadership isn't capable in leading this team and we've seen that early this year, and have seen it over the past few years.

should Lebron involve him more, sure, as should Love be more involved. But i wouldn't change the Lebron-ball direction to satisfy these players if the wins aren't coming. trial and error to find a median between all three, but Lebron-ball has to stay IMO
Because it is completely unproven without him having Wade and Bosh lending a helping hand, and it was never 'Lebron ball' that made those teams great, rather their rapacious and long-limbed defense and all the fast breaks it created. There is no point in having these guys with the Cavs if they are going to play lebron ball - might as well simply find shooters and defenders, because that is the only thing that really works with Bron ball.

[Mass Debator]

Because it is completely unproven without him having Wade and Bosh lending a helping hand, and it was never 'Lebron ball' that made those teams great, rather their rapacious and long-limbed defense and all the fast breaks it created. There is no point in having these guys with the Cavs if they are going to play lebron ball - might as well simply find shooters and defenders, because that is the only thing that really works with Bron ball.
Someone who gets it. :applause:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Jalen said "Let Kyrie do what he does best, which is handle the ball"... Sorry but ball handling is about more than flashy dribbling. Kyrie isn't even the 2nd best player on his team at distributing the ball.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Lebron never found success outside of a system that doesn't place him as the ball handler. He won't run through screens or cut to the basket for anybody. His drive and kick out formula is the only way.
Meh not really true. Miami had a lot of success using 3 different point guards in Wade/LeBron/Chalmers. Go watch some playoff highlights in the 2012 and 2013 playoff runs and you'll see a lot of cutting resulting in getting open layups at the rim.

[Bandito]

That is all good in theory, but Kyrie doesn't create for anyone but himself, and is an unwilling passer. So why should he let him handle the ball?

And why are you so concerned with what the Cavs should do to get better?
Why are you?


And everything you say about Kyrie is wrong dum dum.

[Bandito]

Meh not really true. Miami had a lot of success using 3 different point guards in Wade/LeBron/Chalmers. Go watch some playoff highlights in the 2012 and 2013 playoff runs and you'll see a lot of cutting resulting in getting open layups at the rim.
Except that didn't happen in reality. You were just starstruck with Lebron *** in your eyes.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Except that didn't happen in reality. You were just starstruck with Lebron *** in your eyes.
or... you know... it did happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awNbKGDqQyM

[Bandito]

or... you know... it did happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awNbKGDqQyM
Don't see anything in that vid pertaining to what you said. Do you want me to ship you a tissue and soap?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Don't see anything in that vid pertaining to what you said. Do you want me to ship you a tissue and soap?
Then you obviously didn't watch it. Very first play is LeBron cutting and getting the assist from Chalmers, along w/ various other plays with Mario or Wade handling the ball you can see all throughout their successful playoff runs. I guess it's pretty clear now that you're trolling so i'll let you go back to paying trannies for sex.

also, this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWvTypNPWpc

[Bandito]

http://i59.tinypic.com/2cfuqug.png



:lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

Bandito softer than charmin

[ImKobe]

well the mentioned success has equated to title runs and championships...why should the formula completely change when it is proven? :confusedshrug:

not taking anything away from Kyrie, as he's a good player, he can certainly score but he's a SG in PG's body at the end of the day...his PG leadership isn't capable in leading this team and we've seen that early this year, and have seen it over the past few years.

should Lebron involve him more, sure, as should Love be more involved. But i wouldn't change the Lebron-ball direction to satisfy these players if the wins aren't coming. trial and error to find a median between all three, but Lebron-ball has to stay IMO

Dude's only what, 22? He's not fully developed yet. If they don't allow him to handle the ball and dictate the offense, you're not getting the most out of the team... Defense will obviously still be the issue, but they could put up more points if Love and others got the ball more and who knows, maybe involving the guys more will make them work harder on D?

Problem is that Bran is unwilling to give up his role, but why join guys like Love and Irving in the first place then? Those guys are at their best when they have the ball...they are young and getting to their primes as opposed to Wade and Bosh having already seen their best days by the time they joined up...It's unfair to those guys. They don't want to be role players.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Dude's only what, 22? He's not fully developed yet. If they don't allow him to handle the ball and dictate the offense, you're not getting the most out of the team... Defense will obviously still be the issue, but they could put up more points if Love and others got the ball more and who knows, maybe involving the guys more will make them work harder on D?

Problem is that Bran is unwilling to give up his role, but why join guys like Love and Irving in the first place then? Those guys are at their best when they have the ball...they are young and getting to their primes as opposed to Wade and Bosh having already seen their best days by the time they joined up...It's unfair to those guys. They don't want to be role players.
Not even trying to dog on Irving, but he's not a great playmaker. Even with LeBron out, he was still averaging 5 assists a game throughout that stretch and had 2 games in a row against DAL/HOU where he only had 3 assists, with 4 turnovers in one of them. Last game against PHX, he had 6-8 a/to ratio. I agree he needs to develop but that also would come from him being a more willing passer and not settling with contested drives/shots. It seems like when he has the ball, he either tries to get a bucket, or lets someone else ISO... a lot of this is on Blatt too. He needs to learn how to create plays to be an elite PG

[pegasus]

Because it is completely unproven without him having Wade and Bosh lending a helping hand, and it was never 'Lebron ball' that made those teams great, rather their rapacious and long-limbed defense and all the fast breaks it created. There is no point in having these guys with the Cavs if they are going to play lebron ball - might as well simply find shooters and defenders, because that is the only thing that really works with Bron ball.
This. Several different Miami players had great individual performances in different games, resulting in victories, but not helping their individual averages much. Lebron-ball never worked; it marginalized every player, but they were still good enough to come through when it most mattered and played great team defense. Plus they should have won at least 3 if not 4 chips, so the recipe was not that successful.

They have just as much talent in Cleveland, if not more, but their players have not been able to adapt to Lebron-ball. And really they shouldn't have to, because they are not gonna win anything with that.

[Haymaker]

Someone who gets it. :applause:

I said the same. :confusedshrug:

[Haymaker]

Meh not really true. Miami had a lot of success using 3 different point guards in Wade/LeBron/Chalmers. Go watch some playoff highlights in the 2012 and 2013 playoff runs and you'll see a lot of cutting resulting in getting open layups at the rim.

Chalmers was a part time PG. He only had to bring down the ball and pass it to lebron. Then wait at the 3 pt line or cut to the basket when a lane opened.

A traditional ball dominant PG will never work in Bron's system.

[Rose'sACL]

i see no prblem with kyrie and lebron. Kyrie and lebron are doing fine. other than 1 or 2 games, both have done well. Love is the one who doesn't fit if his jumper is not falling. his post game is not working this year. it might be that his back is not 100% but his post game is not reliable at all.
Kyrie is a scorer and not a great playmaker. whoever wants kyrie to run point for full game is out of their minds.

[Rose'sACL]

Chalmers was a part time PG. He only had to bring down the ball and pass it to lebron. Then wait at the 3 pt line or cut to the basket when a lane opened.

A traditional ball dominant PG will never work in Bron's system.
why should bron change for kyrie when it is clear that kyrie handling the ball will not bring the wins? cavs win streak came when lebron was handling it for most of the game. Whenever lebron tries to give kyrie too many chances to create for others, cavs struggle.
I just want to ask people if it is about winning games or getting your team mates better stats? bosh is a prime example of this.

[nba_55]

This. Several different Miami players had great individual performances in different games, resulting in victories, but not helping their individual averages much. Lebron-ball never worked; it marginalized every player, but they were still good enough to come through when it most mattered and played great team defense. Plus they should have won at least 3 if not 4 chips, so the recipe was not that successful.

They have just as much talent in Cleveland, if not more, but their players have not been able to adapt to Lebron-ball. And really they shouldn't have to, because they are not gonna win anything with that.
Explain their 1-8 record without Lebron ball please.

[nba_55]

Chalmers was a part time PG. He only had to bring down the ball and pass it to lebron. Then wait at the 3 pt line or cut to the basket when a lane opened.

A traditional ball dominant PG will never work in Bron's system.

Kyrie was dominating the ball early on, they let him run the offense, guess what? It didn't work.

[edrick]

Because it is completely unproven without him having Wade and Bosh lending a helping hand, and it was never 'Lebron ball' that made those teams great, rather their rapacious and long-limbed defense and all the fast breaks it created. There is no point in having these guys with the Cavs if they are going to play lebron ball - might as well simply find shooters and defenders, because that is the only thing that really works with Bron ball.

As usual, ignoring part of the facts. Kyrie was allowed to run the point at the start of the season and also while Lebron was out, what happened? They lost most of those games. Kyrie is shit at running a team, we've seen it for 4 years.