Going Vegan

[Nanners]

I have been a carnivore my entire life, but in the past few weeks I have been thinking about trying to go vegan.

It seems like the moral justification for farming livestock is based on the fact that farm animals are cognitively inferior to humans, so it is therefore it is acceptable to exploit them. Lately I dont really buy this justification anymore.

How you would feel if aliens with superior intelligence and technology arrived on earth and enslaved humanity to farm us for food products on an industrial scale. Would the aliens be morally justified in doing this, since we humans are cognitively inferior to them?

[DeuceWallaces]

Considering the aliens did not evolve with us over millenia while serving as predators your analogy is poor.

That being said, going for vegan straight from a diet with a large component of animal protein is most certainly setting yourself up for failure.

It would be a good idea to ease yourself into a diet with only 1-2 nights of terrestrial protein via flesh or dairy a week.

[~primetime~]

My wife is vegan and I respect it. More power to you, hope you can do it.

I on the other hand eat meat, but I try to make an effort to purchase only organic, grass fed, open range, cage free, etc meat. That in itself is very difficult though, and I am not 100%.

I believe that it is morally sound to eat farmed livestock if they are raised properly. Keep in mind Nanners, we created these animals, if we didn't eat them they simply would not exist. It is not equivalent to "aliens farming us".

[Nanners]

Considering the aliens did not evolve with us over millenia while serving as predators your analogy is poor.

That being said, going for vegan straight from a diet with a large component of animal protein is most certainly setting yourself up for failure.

It would be a good idea to ease yourself into a diet with only 1-2 nights of terrestrial protein via flesh or dairy a week.

I think its a solid analogy. When you consider how much humans have advanced technologically in the past few thousand years, from the perspective of a cow or a pig, humans might as well be aliens.

I definitely agree that going straight to a vegan diet seems really difficult, and I need to find a way to ease myself into it. My entire life I have been cooking with animal products and I dont really have any idea where to begin if meat, eggs, cheese, milk, butter, etc are all off the table.

[Nanners]

My wife is vegan and I respect it. More power to you, hope you can do it.

I on the other hand eat meat, but I try to make an effort to purchase only organic, grass fed, open range, cage free, etc meat. That in itself is very difficult though, and I am not 100%.

I believe that it is morally sound to eat farmed livestock if they are raised properly. Keep in mind Nanners, we created these animals, if we didn't eat them they simply would not exist. It is not equivalent to "aliens farming us".

Thanks dude :cheers:

I too make an effort to purchase only organic, grass fed, free range, cage free, etc meat... but recently I have started to think these terms are oxymorons.

Its kind of like saying - I only wear cotton made from a cruelty free slave plantation. Well thats nice that its not as cruel as other plantations, but its still a slave plantation.

I am not really sure that true cruelty free farming is possible, almost any act of farming another animal for its products is cruel.

[~primetime~]

I am not really sure that true cruelty free farming is possible, almost any act of farming another animal for its products is cruel.
Do you view eating wild game as 'cruel'?

[DeuceWallaces]

I think its a solid analogy. When you consider how much humans have advanced technologically in the past few thousand years, from the perspective of a cow or a pig, humans might as well be aliens.

I definitely agree that going straight to a vegan diet seems really difficult, and I need to find a way to ease myself into it. My entire life I have been cooking with animal products and I dont really have any idea where to begin if meat, eggs, cheese, milk, butter, etc are all off the table.

We've evolved with domesticated versions of these animals. The cow or pig as you know it only exist because of our co-evolution. Same can be said for corn, beans, and most crops.

If the aliens domesticate a dumb, less vigilant, fatter versions of ourselves over the course of a few centuries then I'll be with you.

No matter what cognitive reasoning you come up with regards to the value of their life versus ours, humans have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to have animal products as a modest part of their diet.

You could look at a plant in the same way. They are marvels of biology and life that are inferior to us in many ways. Harvesting wood, foliage, vegetative structures, and especially fruit can place immense stress on their physiology which in many cases leads to death. Vegans like to get on their high horse because a corn stalk can't scream when you rip it out of the ground, but it's no more or less autonomous life than a pig.

[Nanners]

Do you view eating wild game as 'cruel'?

not really, not compared to farming.

[Im so nba'd out]

I have been a carnivore my entire life, but in the past few weeks I have been thinking about trying to go vegan.

It seems like the moral justification for farming livestock is based on the fact that farm animals are cognitively inferior to humans, so it is therefore it is acceptable to exploit them. Lately I dont really buy this justification anymore.

How you would feel if aliens with superior intelligence and technology arrived on earth and enslaved humanity to farm us for food products on an industrial scale. Would the aliens be morally justified in doing this, since we humans are cognitively inferior to them?
Just because you want to make a life change dont try to guilt us into making the same changes.Thats really weak bro

[Nanners]

Just because you want to make a life change dont try to guilt us into making the same changes.Thats really weak bro

sorry if i come off that way. I am not trying to guilt anybody, just explaining how my own opinion on farming has changed.

you should eat whatever you want.

[DeuceWallaces]

Killing a plant is different than killing an animal though, even if they are both living things.

I genuinely feel bad for everything, both plant and animal, and I try to use nothing I don't absolutely need... Hurting some other thing is unfortunately a part of life and the only way to totally avoid it is killing yourself. There is no reason to value your own life over anything else, other than the fact that your brain that is hardwired to do so with a "must reproduce, must not die" preset.

Vegans tend to be asshats, the same as most people in general.

Explain to me how it's different. Because they have a nervous system and vocal chords?

[~primetime~]

Explain to me how it's different. Because they have a nervous system and vocal chords?
yep, because they feel pain and are capable of 'suffering'

[DeuceWallaces]

yep, because they feel pain and are capable of 'suffering'

Pain is just a way to inform the brain of internal physiological stress.

Plants do this in another way by adjusting hormonal ratios in the stressed area. It's just not triggered via a nervous system, but they are still under physiological duress that may lead to death.

By that logic you would be fine killing animals or humans with congenital analgesia, because they lack the capacity for chemical "pain" and suffering.

[~primetime~]

Pain is just a way to inform the brain of internal physiological stress.

Plants do this in another way by adjusting hormonal ratios in the stressed area. It's just not triggered via a nervous system, but they are still under physiological duress that may lead to death.

By that logic you would be fine killing animals or humans with congenital analgesia, because they lack the capacity for chemical "pain" and suffering.
exactly, animals are self aware creatures...capable of "physiological stress" and torture

plants are not self aware, there is no brain...they don't have the capacity to give a shit

any mammal in a tortured state =/= any plant in a tortured state

[Jailblazers7]

exactly, animals are self aware creatures...capable of "physiological stress" and torture

plants are not self aware, there is no brain...they don't have the capacity to give a shit

any mammal in a tortured state =/= any plant in a tortured state

Animals aren't really self-aware tho. They are conscious but being self-aware is a step above that.

[DeuceWallaces]

The plant is wholly aware that it's in a state of stress and physical harm. It's expressing chemical pain in just the same way but doesn't not have, or better stated, does not need, a nervous system to properly react.

And, yeah, animals are not self aware.

[~primetime~]

IMO there is much more suffering involved with a 'conscious creature' in a tortured state in comparison to a plant.

For the record, I eat meat...I am not convinced that cows - pigs - poultry - ect "give a shit" given they aren't tortured and are free to roam. Unfortunately the majority of meat the population eats comes from a cage and is tortured.

[DeuceWallaces]

I don't wholly agree. Life is life. It's easier for us to empathize with the pain of a deer because it's similar to ours, but ultimately you don't really know the physiological stress that a clam, beetle, corn stalk, or perch are under when injured nor how it feels to them.

Hence, I will refrain from valuing one over the other.

[Nanners]

Good points on both sides of the discussion.

I wont claim to know whether or not plants suffer when we grow and harvest them for food, but I do think its pretty obvious that cows suffer when we raise them to be milked and pigs suffer when we raise them for slaughter.

[Im so nba'd out]

Good points on both sides of the discussion.

I wont claim to know whether or not plants suffer when we grow and harvest them for food, but I do think its pretty obvious that cows suffer when we raise them to be milked and pigs suffer when we raise them for slaughter.
Life is designed to survive off stealing life from others this whole system is messed up man.I can only prolong my life by cutting short the lives of other things just like they can only live from cutting short the lives of animals/plants weaker than them.

[Nanners]

Life is designed to survive off stealing life from others this whole system is messed up man.I can only prolong my life by cutting short the lives of other things just like they can only live from cutting short the lives of animals/plants weaker than them.

I dont really have a problem with cutting another life short so that mine can be longer, as you say thats just how the circle of life works.

My problem is whether or not it is morally justified to farm sentient animals inside cages on an industrial scale, sentient animals whose only purpose in life is to be my food.

[DeuceWallaces]

I dont really have a problem with cutting another life short so that mine can be longer, as you say thats just how the circle of life works.

My problem is whether or not it is morally justified to farm sentient animals inside cages on an industrial scale, sentient animals whose only purpose in life is to be my food.

Well that's a different issue than veganism. A more expensive issue, but a different one none the less. I think you'll find yourself happier, more healthy, and at ease with your dietary decisions if you cut your meat intake down to 1-2 times a week, restrict it to organic pastured green, and throw in 1-2 fish and shellfish (organic is a bit more tricky with aquatics) to go along with vegetarian options the rest of the week.

[Nanners]

Well that's a different issue than veganism. A more expensive issue, but a different one none the less. I think you'll find yourself happier, more healthy, and at ease with your dietary decisions if you cut your meat intake down to 1-2 times a week, restrict it to organic pastured green, and throw in 1-2 fish and shellfish (organic is a bit more tricky with aquatics) to go along with vegetarian options the rest of the week.

Yeah, perhaps what I am talking about is not exactly veganism, I mainly just want to start consuming fewer animal products from farms. :cheers:

[the wise man]

yep, because they feel pain and are capable of 'suffering'

Actually, not every animal feels pain.

[DeuceWallaces]

Fvkboys cryin for shrubs tho

Guess I should have expected a ****tard like yourself to miss the point.

[Swaggin916]

I agree with OP... it is exploitation. It's not much different then penning up females and then when they come of age take them out to have sex with them. You could never teach them anything and they would be cognitively inferior just like the animals. We do this to animals not out of need, but instead out of a lust for meat. if these animals had a choice would they choose for their lives to be this way? Heck no. But the truth is, they might not even know any better and it's not our fault that the system is so screwed up. Either way whether you are eating plants or animals though, all life is related to us... animals are just closer to us on the evolutionary tree. I'm sure each plant wouldn't decide to get eaten either... everything is programmed to try and survive. It's all kind of a wash. Just be kind to the animals and execute them humanely.

[Nastradamus]

Morals come from social contract, which animals do not take part in.

[Sarcastic]

Just eat Pop-Tarts, Doritos, and Oreos only, and voila, you're 100% vegan.

[dunksby]

Well back in grade school they taught us we were predators and top of the food chain so I never felt bad about cows and stuff until I saw how they are bred and grown on a factory farm. I still gladly eat meat though but not with the same justified naive view before though

[nathanjizzle]

I was a vegeterian for close to two years. Its really healthy for you physically and mentally. Also u dont have to worry about getting cancer

[iamgine]

I have been a carnivore my entire life, but in the past few weeks I have been thinking about trying to go vegan.

It seems like the moral justification for farming livestock is based on the fact that farm animals are cognitively inferior to humans, so it is therefore it is acceptable to exploit them. Lately I dont really buy this justification anymore.

How you would feel if aliens with superior intelligence and technology arrived on earth and enslaved humanity to farm us for food products on an industrial scale. Would the aliens be morally justified in doing this, since we humans are cognitively inferior to them?
:biggums: Plants are also living things who are cognitively inferior to humans, we also farm them for food.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Honestly, I appreciate people who are willing to stand up for your morals but I can't get behind that way of thinking. I don't believe that cows (for example) would think the same way about eating us, nor do I think a dog ever wonders where it's bone has come from. I appreciate animals and by no means want to wipe them out, but livestock bred purely for meat? I see no issue with that. Comparing it to aliens farming us is absurd really, but if they're the top of the food chain then they're the top of the food chain. It's just nature. Am I supposed to feel bad about the fact we are a species that has made hunting efficient?


I was a vegeterian for close to two years. Its really healthy for you physically and mentally. Also u dont have to worry about getting cancer

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: wow

[Bandito]

I was a vegeterian for close to two years. Its really healthy for you physically and mentally. Also u dont have to worry about getting cancer
You been on a roll of dumb post yesterday:roll:


Also you never went vegan. You had you share of **** sucking in the NBA forum.

[step_back]

I was a vegeterian for close to two years. Its really healthy for you physically and mentally. Also u dont have to worry about getting cancer


Actually he raises a valid point. Half of the worlds antibiotics are used on animals for food consumption. We're eating diseased meat and the increase in cancer rates has everything to do with diet. Cancer affects less than 1% of the population in Japan because they eating mostly grains, beans, sea food and vegetables.

I'm making changes this year with food. For one I'm getting rid of all supplements in my diet. Whey protein in particular is complete B.S. Instead of poorly made shakes which are a waste product of cheese I'm eating food. I'm going to stop eating so much animal protein too. Unless you're a hard gainer or bodybuilder which I'm not, you don't need to eat 1/1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

P.S Good on you for giving the vegan diet a go.

[Jailblazers7]

Morals come from social contract, which animals do not take part in.


Morals come from Jesus. Get your facts straight bro.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Actually he raises a valid point. Half of the worlds antibiotics are used on animals for food consumption. We're eating diseased meat and the increase in cancer rates has everything to do with diet. Cancer affects less than 1% of the population in Japan because they eating mostly grains, beans, sea food and vegetables.

I'm making changes this year with food. For one I'm getting rid of all supplements in my diet. Whey protein in particular is complete B.S. Instead of poorly made shakes which are a waste product of cheese I'm eating food. I'm going to stop eating so much animal protein too. Unless you're a hard gainer or bodybuilder which I'm not, you don't need to eat 1/1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

P.S Good on you for giving the vegan diet a go.

http://healthhubs.net/cancer/cancer-rates-in-the-usa-compared-to-japan/

That's the first site I found but that seems to be suggesting colorectal cancer (heavily affected by diet) is more common in Japan...

[step_back]

http://healthhubs.net/cancer/cancer-rates-in-the-usa-compared-to-japan/

That's the first site I found but that seems to be suggesting colorectal cancer (heavily affected by diet) is more common in Japan...

Colorectal cancer is mainly a cancer of the western world. Around 63% of cases which happen to share very similar diets. It's also the third most popular cancer in the United states. By looking at that graph you'll also notice there are 9 other cancers which are more common in western cultures.

Meat consumption is not what it used to be. It used to be locally sourced from farms and be raised on food that the land produced. Unless you pay a premium you're eating poor quality meat.

Diet has everything to do with cancer.

[BigBoss]

You don't need to go vegan but switch to a 70/30 diet i.e. 70% veg

[GimmeThat]

I suppose there are only 2 types of people, and maybe 3.

the first is one, who decides to quit on something, and they make it, and that was the end of it all, they quit it.

the second is the type, they quit on something just as they start on something, and as they get the meaning/experience of it, they start trying to utilize it even more in the bigger picture of it all. and to even bring along the whole "religion is a disease thread". to me, it's really a matter of after learning and knowing how each little substance/diet/subject reacts to you, and trying to find the grand purpose behind it all in how you intend to utilize it.


that third type?


I guess they just hadn't even found the power of quitting yet.

[BigBoss]

I suppose there are only 2 types of people, and maybe 3.

the first is one, who decides to quit on something, and they make it, and that was the end of it all, they quit it.

the second is the type, they quit on something just as they start on something, and as they get the meaning/experience of it, they start trying to utilize it even more in the bigger picture of it all. and to even bring along the whole "religion is a disease thread". to me, it's really a matter of after learning and knowing how each little substance/diet/subject reacts to you, and trying to find the grand purpose behind it all in how you intend to utilize it.


that third type?


I guess they just hadn't even found the power of quitting yet.

Then theres you...a fakkit

[Dresta]

Colorectal cancer is mainly a cancer of the western world. Around 63% of cases which happen to share very similar diets. It's also the third most popular cancer in the United states. By looking at that graph you'll also notice there are 9 other cancers which are more common in western cultures.

Meat consumption is not what it used to be. It used to be locally sourced from farms and be raised on food that the land produced. Unless you pay a premium you're eating poor quality meat.

Diet has everything to do with cancer.Don't be childish. Diet is only one of many contributory causes of cancer, some of which will be unknown, some genetic, some environmental, etc. Speaking scientifically, in most (if not all) cancer cases, you cannot point to a single causal factor and say: 'x' caused this particular cancer, in this specific case.

The many unhealthy habits of the citizens of countries like the USA work to multiply the risk factors that contribute to cancer. You are treading very heavily in a minefield of uncertainty.

[step_back]

Don't be childish. Diet is only one of many contributory causes of cancer, some of which will be unknown, some genetic, some environmental, etc. Speaking scientifically, in most (if not all) cancer cases, you cannot point to a single causal factor and say: 'x' caused this particular cancer, in this specific case.

The many unhealthy habits of the citizens of countries like the USA work to multiply the risk factors that contribute to cancer. You are treading very heavily in a minefield of uncertainty.

You don't have to look that far back in history to see that as food and diet have deteriorated the increase of diabetes and cancer has increased. (Surely that's a very strong indication) Considering the West has some of the best medicine and treatment in the world why is disease such an epidemic?

You also mentioned environment has some contributing factors, that's exactly how some of our food is being compromised. Fruits and vegetables were organic for millions of years before we started messing around with it.

It's estimated that 70% of diseases can be avoided by lifestyle choice.

[nathanjizzle]

You been on a roll of dumb post yesterday:roll:


Also you never went vegan. You had you share of **** sucking in the NBA forum.

if there is a fine line between my intelligence and your intelligence, but you are the one doubting everything i say without proof, then what does that say about whos dumb and whos smart?

Columbus -"the world is round"
dumb people- "you are dumb, no it isnt" (based on no proof)

nathaniel-"diet is related to cancer"
poor mexican -" no it isnt you are dumb" (based on no proof)

[DeuceWallaces]

This is not the argument usually. The argument is that they're not conscious. Eating chimpanzees our dolphins would be ****ed up. Eating among the stupidest mammals in existences in cows, does not bother my conscious.

By that logic, I should be eating you.

[DeuceWallaces]

I'm saying you're one of the stupidest mammals in existence.

Your response only furthers my point.

[AirTupac]

I just knew there would some a couple fights when I entered this thread. :pimp: :pimp:

[Goon Time]

I think its a solid analogy. When you consider how much humans have advanced technologically in the past few thousand years, from the perspective of a cow or a pig, humans might as well be aliens.



http://media3.giphy.com/media/YkUvfj0ncKI5G/200.gif

[Dresta]

You don't have to look that far back in history to see that as food and diet have deteriorated the increase of diabetes and cancer has increased. (Surely that's a very strong indication) Considering the West has some of the best medicine and treatment in the world why is disease such an epidemic?

You also mentioned environment has some contributing factors, that's exactly how some of our food is being compromised. Fruits and vegetables were organic for millions of years before we started messing around with it.

It's estimated that 70% of diseases can be avoided by lifestyle choice.
Estimated how exactly? In a way that has no validity, no doubt. I've really had enough of this childish simplicity when it comes to very complicated topics. People have to die somehow: if they avoid one disease, they will eventually succumb to another - thus saying '70% of diseases can be avoided by lifestyle choice' cannot possibly be accurate, because if this 70% were 'avoided' then there would be a bunch of new illnesses down the line. It's just a statistic that couldn't possibly be accurate. It's like reading those idiotic news reports that go 'heart disease down - success! But cancer up - noooo, how do we explain this!?!?' - this is childish because if people aren't dying of heart-disease then they are at risk of dying of something else.

There are many, many unhealthy differences between the contemporary lifestyle and that of a few centuries ago. People die, people get ill; it isn't an 'epidemic' - most are still living longer than ever despite declining health. There are many possible explanations for the rise in diabetes (rise in asthma too) that have nothing to do with fruit or vegetables or pesticides. I know a lot of cancer biologists, and i honestly don't think a single one of them believes in this kind of explanatory power of diet alone. Cancer is still not that well understood, but we do know that its existence is a necessary consequence of the evolutionary process.

edit: are you also making the argument that food was safer before the establishment of the FDA?

[step_back]

Estimated how exactly? In a way that has no validity, no doubt. I've really had enough of this childish simplicity when it comes to very complicated topics. People have to die somehow: if they avoid one disease, they will eventually succumb to another - thus saying '70% of diseases can be avoided by lifestyle choice' cannot possibly be accurate, because if this 70% were 'avoided' then there would be a bunch of new illnesses down the line. It's just a statistic that couldn't possibly be accurate. It's like reading those idiotic news reports that go 'heart disease down - success! But cancer up - noooo, how do we explain this!?!?' - this is childish because if people aren't dying of heart-disease then they are at risk of dying of something else.

There are many, many unhealthy differences between the contemporary lifestyle and that of a few centuries ago. People die, people get ill; it isn't an 'epidemic' - most are still living longer than ever despite declining health. There are many possible explanations for the rise in diabetes (rise in asthma too) that have nothing to do with fruit or vegetables or pesticides. I know a lot of cancer biologists, and i honestly don't think a single one of them believes in this kind of explanatory power of diet alone. Cancer is still not that well understood, but we do know that its existence is a necessary consequence of the evolutionary process.

edit: are you also making the argument that food was safer before the establishment of the FDA?

How is it remotely childish or simplistic to think that diet and lifestyle plays a major role in diseases? Doctors like Max Gerson cured patients of serious diseases like melanoma through nutrition. There is also evidence that diseases are brought on through malnutrition and vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Which is actually very much a problem in western eating habits.

Obesity and cancer has also been described many times as an epidemic.

[dunksby]

I just knew there would some a couple fights when I entered this thread. :pimp: :pimp:
That's a given on OTC and ISH generally, the challenge is to guess who is involved in said fighting in what threads. Dresta, LOLCATS, sweggeh, alenleo, 9er, imdaman, LEFT4DEAD and Chewing are safe bets right now.

[shlver]

Colorectal cancer is mainly a cancer of the western world. Around 63% of cases which happen to share very similar diets. It's also the third most popular cancer in the United states. By looking at that graph you'll also notice there are 9 other cancers which are more common in western cultures.

Meat consumption is not what it used to be. It used to be locally sourced from farms and be raised on food that the land produced. Unless you pay a premium you're eating poor quality meat.

Diet has everything to do with cancer.
This post is such a mess. No colon cancer is not a cancer of the western world. WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?



Age over 50: colon cancer is more likely to occur as people get older. More than 90 percent of people with this disease are diagnosed after age 50. The average age at diagnosis is 72.

colon polyps: Polyps are growths on the inner wall of the colon or rectum. They are common in people over age 50. Most polyps are benign (not cancer), but some polyps (adenomas) can become cancer. Finding and removing polyps may reduce the risk of colon cancer.

Family history of colon cancer: Close relatives (parents, brothers, sisters, or children) of a person with a history of colon cancer are somewhat more likely to develop this disease themselves, especially if the relative had the cancer at a young age. If many close relatives have a history of colon cancer, the risk is even greater.

Genetic alterations: Changes in certain genes increase the risk of colon cancer.

Hereditary nonpolyposis colon cancer (HNPCC) is the most common type of inherited (genetic) colon cancer. It accounts for about two percent of all colon cancer cases. It is caused by changes in an HNPCC gene. Most people with an altered HNPCC gene develop colon cancer, and the average age at diagnosis of colon cancer is 44.

Familial adenomatous polyposis (FAP) is a rare, inherited condition in which hundreds of polyps form in the colon and rectum. It is caused by a change in a specific gene called APC. Unless FAP is treated, it usually leads to colon cancer by age 40. FAP accounts for less than one percent of all colon cancer cases.

Family members of people who have HNPCC or FAP can have genetic testing to check for specific genetic changes. For those who have changes in their genes, health care providers may suggest ways to try to reduce the risk of colon cancer, or to improve the detection of this disease. For adults with FAP, the doctor may recommend an operation to remove all or part of the colon and rectum.

Personal history of cancer: A person who has already had colon cancer may develop colon cancer a second time. Also, women with a history of cancer of the ovary, uterus (endometrium), or breast are at a somewhat higher risk of developing colon cancer.

Ulcerative colitis or Crohn's disease: A person who has had a condition that causes inflammation of the colon (such as ulcerative colitis or Crohn's disease) for many years is at increased risk of developing colon cancer.

Diet and Lifestyle: Studies suggest that diets high in red meat and fat (especially animal fat) and low in calcium, folate, and fiber may increase the risk of colon cancer. Also, some studies suggest that people who eat a diet very low in fruits and vegetables may have a higher risk of colon cancer. However, results from diet studies do not always agree, and more research is needed to better understand how diet affects the risk of colon cancer.

Inactivity and obesity have also been linked to higher risk of colon cancer. Studies have shown that daily physical activity can decrease colon cancer risk by as much as 50 percent.

Cigarette smoking: A person who smokes cigarettes may be at increased risk of developing polyps and colon cancer.

Because people who have colon cancer may develop colon cancer a second time, it is important to have checkups. If you have colon cancer, you also may be concerned that your family members may develop the disease. People who think they may be at risk should talk to their doctor.
So the PEOPLE(not the western world) who are consuming a diet of unhealthy amounts of red meat and not getting other necessary nutrients would have a HIGHER RISK of colon cancer. But look at all the other RISK FACTORS.

So armed with this information that was a google search away, do you really believe cancer is all about diet?
Of course not. That's an idiotic idea. Research cancer and you will find that age is the strongest correlate to all cancers. I don't find cancer rates going up very surprising when we have millions of baby boomers aging past 50.

[shlver]

I think its a solid analogy. When you consider how much humans have advanced technologically in the past few thousand years, from the perspective of a cow or a pig, humans might as well be aliens.

I definitely agree that going straight to a vegan diet seems really difficult, and I need to find a way to ease myself into it. My entire life I have been cooking with animal products and I dont really have any idea where to begin if meat, eggs, cheese, milk, butter, etc are all off the table.
Humans have been exploiting cattle since the stone age. Were those humans technologically advanced? I think it's a poor analogy as well.

Your caveat in the op seems to be "industrial scale." I guess what you're saying is we can exploit them if we're more well accommodating about the exploitation?

[~primetime~]

Rank Country Age-Standardised Rate per 100,000 (World)
1 Korea, Republic of 45.0
2 Slovakia 42.7
3 Hungary 42.3
4 Denmark 40.5
5 The Netherlands 40.2
6 Czech Republic 38.9
6 Norway 38.9
8 Australia 38.4
9 New Zealand 37.3
10 Slovenia 37.0
11 Belgium 36.7
12 Israel 35.9
13 Canada 35.2
14 Ireland 34.9
15 Italy 33.9
16 Singapore 33.7
17 Spain 33.1
18 Croatia 32.9
19 Serbia 32.6
20 Japan 32.2

http://www.wcrf.org/int/cancer-facts-figures/data-specific-cancers/colorectal-cancer-statistics


^^^ top-20 countries with the highest rate of colon cancer

[step_back]

This post is such a mess. No colon cancer is not a cancer of the western world. WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?



So the PEOPLE(not the western world) who are consuming a diet of unhealthy amounts of red meat and not getting other necessary nutrients would have a HIGHER RISK of colon cancer. But look at all the other RISK FACTORS.

So armed with this information that was a google search away, do you really believe cancer is all about diet?
Of course not. That's an idiotic idea. Research cancer and you will find that age is the strongest correlate to all cancers. I don't find cancer rates going up very surprising when we have millions of baby boomers aging past 50.

Diet and lifestyle plays a major role is what I said!

Did I say it's all diet. No I didn't. For **** sake, I hate you people.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[shlver]

Diet and lifestyle plays a major role is what I said!

Did I say it's all diet. No I didn't. For **** sake, I hate you people.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Originally Posted by step_back
Colorectal cancer is mainly a cancer of the western world. Around 63% of cases which happen to share very similar diets. It's also the third most popular cancer in the United states. By looking at that graph you'll also notice there are 9 other cancers which are more common in western cultures.

Meat consumption is not what it used to be. It used to be locally sourced from farms and be raised on food that the land produced. Unless you pay a premium you're eating poor quality meat.

Diet has everything to do with cancer.
???

[dunksby]

Nanners, since you got pissed off when I compared you to vegans in the other thread, I'm guessing you gave up on this quest of yours.

[Nanners]

Nanners, since you got pissed off when I compared you to vegans in the other thread, I'm guessing you gave up on this quest of yours.

What thread are you referring to?

You guessed 100% correctly, I only lasted about a month as a vegan.

Despite not being vegan, I have managed to cut my intake of factory farmed meat down to nearly zero... and those factory farms are really what my gripe was about in the first place.

[Nanners]

Humans have been exploiting cattle since the stone age. Were those humans technologically advanced? I think it's a poor analogy as well.

Your caveat in the op seems to be "industrial scale." I guess what you're saying is we can exploit them if we're more well accommodating about the exploitation?


Since my post was too confusing for you, maybe some pictures can clear it up

I am okay with eating this

http://www.solaripedia.com/images/large/2693.jpg

but I dont want to eat this

https://www.farmsanctuary.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/feedlot2_300_1.jpg

[Im so nba'd out]

I eat much cleaner than i did in 2015 but i dont see me ever going vegan unless i have to kill the meat myself.


I even gave up salt and sugar recently(not counting natural salt in meats and sugar in fruits).

Just to do it...but going vegan, not a ****ing chance will i ever eat lettuce(ect) for the rest of my life.


Then thinking about all the salt you have to use to flavor the shitty food makes me want to throw up

[Meticode]

Just go Flexitarian. You eat mostly veterinarian diet, but you choose to eat whatever meat when you want. Could do something like a 90%/10% portion.

[dunksby]

What thread are you referring to?

You guessed 100% correctly, I only lasted about a month as a vegan.

Despite not being vegan, I have managed to cut my intake of factory farmed meat down to nearly zero... and those factory farms are really what my gripe was about in the first place.
I go for free range meat, eggs and so on as well; not only they are the healthier option but also taste better.

[Rocket]

I will eat a huge ribeye when I get home from work today in honor of the amazing thread! :cheers:

[Nanners]

I go for free range meat, eggs and so on as well; not only they are the healthier option but also taste better.

yeah the difference between a fresh free range egg and eggs you get at most grocery stores is crazy, they might as well be a different food entirely.

[Hawker]

Since my post was too confusing for you, maybe some pictures can clear it up

I am okay with eating this

http://www.solaripedia.com/images/large/2693.jpg

but I dont want to eat this

https://www.farmsanctuary.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/feedlot2_300_1.jpg

I like my brisket grass fed with a 90 day grain fed before they get killed. Fattens them up. :rockon:

[Nanners]

I like my brisket grass fed with a 90 day grain fed before they get killed. Fattens them up. :rockon:

I always try to buy organic and/or grass fed red meat, but theres nothing inherently wrong with feeding a cow grain imo. I would eat the shit out of one of those Japanese Kobe cows that drinks beer and listens to classical music all day.

Cows should be fat... but they should be fat and happy not fat and miserable.

[sixerfan82]

Vegan isn't bad, it just gets a bad rep because it's not normal.

I've found that the milk, ice cream, fish, burgers, and ground beef are pretty good.

Now the steak, chicken, and eggs I'd not given to my worst enemy